# "Dying" randomly/blackouts



## The VCR King

No, I am not talking about my laptop. My desktop gaming PC will randomly "die" every now and then. When it happens, the screen goes black, all HDD activity stops, then anything plugged into the USB ports loses power/stops. The PC though, keeps running. The case LEDs, fans, PSU, GPUs stay powered on. Holding the power button down on the PC does nothing. The only way to turn it off it to switch off the power supply or unplug it. After I plug it back in and reboot it everything seems fine.

Could it be a hardware issue?


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## spirit

What are your specs again?

I would suggest it could be a power supply issue or a motherboard problem of some description. 

The first thing I would try is updating your motherboard drivers and/or your BIOS.


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## The VCR King

MSI 890FXA-GD65 mobo
AMD Phenom II 6-core processor
Cougar CMX 1000-watt power supply
Win7 Home Premium SP1
1tb WD Caviar Black for O/S and user files
120GB and 250GB HDDs for additional storage
120GB OCZ Vertex3 SSD for backup


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## johnb35

Could be anything from the power supply, motherboard or just a short between motherboard and case.  Might want to build it outside of the case to test for a few days.


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## spirit

It does sound like your board is shorting on the case. Have you got all of those brass standoffs in the correct place and do you only have as many of them as you need?


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## The VCR King

I have no idea WTF a brass standoff is...

Again, I got the PC from a friend whose son made it, and I have no idea what he did when he built it.


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## spirit

The Blue Beast said:


> I have no idea WTF a brass standoff is...



They're these little things that raise the board from the case so that it doesn't short on it:






If you don't use them or you have too many or too few then the board can short on the case and you get problems like the ones you're having.


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## The VCR King

There are plenty of these on my board.


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## spirit

The Blue Beast said:


> There are plenty of these on my board.



OK that's good... but are they in the right places? You only need them where the board screws into them. If you have them where they're not needed and the board touches them it can cause problems.


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## The VCR King

I checked and they are in their proper spots.


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## spirit

OK so it might not be that then.

The next thing to try would be to remove the board from the case altogether and run it on cardboard or wood or a while and see if it still plays up if you feel confident enough to do that. It could be the I/O shield that is causing the problems and shorting if it's not fitted correctly. 

You can also try updating your drivers and your BIOS. If you update your BIOS it will reset it anyway, but if *anything* is overclocked remove *all* overclocks and see if you still have problems.  

If you're still unlucky then it could be a power supply issue. How old is this PC? 

The best way to test if the PSU is at fault would be to get/buy/borrow another PSU to use and see if the problem persists but I know it's not particularly ideal.

I'm even going to suggest checking your RAM with Memtest86 - that could be the problem: http://www.memtest86.com/ burn ISO to CD, boot off it, let it run for 5-6 hours. Swap sticks and bays after each test. Once you've run Memtest with some different combinations try using the system with 1 stick of RAM for a while, then put the stick(s) you removed back in for a bit. Try different combinations. See how it goes.



That's really everything I have to suggest.


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## StrangleHold

Does it do this while your using it and while sitting idle? Could be the power supply or motherboard. The power supply is pretty lowend. Made by HEC and has 6 rails. Could be low voltage or a rail overloaded. Look at PC Wizard and see what the 12/5/3.3 rails are running at. Have you checked your temps lately?


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> OK so it might not be that then.
> 
> The next thing to try would be to remove the board from the case altogether and run it on cardboard or wood or a while and see if it still plays up if you feel confident enough to do that. It could be the I/O shield that is causing the problems and shorting if it's not fitted correctly.
> 
> You can also try updating your drivers and your BIOS. If you update your BIOS it will reset it anyway, but if *anything* is overclocked remove *all* overclocks and see if you still have problems.
> 
> If you're still unlucky then it could be a power supply issue. How old is this PC?
> 
> The best way to test if the PSU is at fault would be to get/buy/borrow another PSU to use and see if the problem persists but I know it's not particularly ideal.
> 
> I'm even going to suggest checking your RAM with Memtest86 - that could be the problem: http://www.memtest86.com/ burn ISO to CD, boot off it, let it run for 5-6 hours. Swap sticks and bays after each test. Once you've run Memtest with some different combinations try using the system with 1 stick of RAM for a while, then put the stick(s) you removed back in for a bit. Try different combinations. See how it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> That's really everything I have to suggest.



If I barely had enough confidence to unplug a fan what makes you think I'll work up the guts to take the PC out of the case and run a boot disc?



StrangleHold said:


> Does it do this while your using it and while sitting idle? Could be the power supply or motherboard. The power supply is pretty lowend. Made by HEC and has 6 rails. Could be low voltage or a rail overloaded. Look at PC Wizard and see what the 12/5/3.3 rails are running at. Have you checked your temps lately?



I made a little "table" below to help ya.

AVERAGE TEMPERATURES:
HDD/SDD:        Idle - 96(F)   /  In use - 100 to 130(F)
Crossfire GPUs: Idle - 120(F) /  In use - 160+(F)
Motherboard:   Idle - 90(F)   /  In use - 100-110(F)
CPU:              Idle - 80(F)   /  In use - 90-120(F)
I use Speccy to check my temps every day or two.
--
I installed PC Wizard but when I selected "Power Supply" nothing came up. Nothing at all. A blank screen and blank list. Nothing.

The PC doesn't get _that_ hot because I don't use it 24/7. Most of the time it is on it is in idle. I really just use it for YouTube and TF2 to be honest.


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## johnb35

Please start using the edit button to edit your posts instead of creating a new post.  As long as no one as replied after you, you can edit your previous post.  I have merged your 3 posts into 1.


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## The VCR King

I don't know how to put multiple quotes into one post.


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## johnb35

Here is an image. To multiquote posts simple press the multiquote button here.





Then press the quote button on all the other posts that you want to reply to, you must hit the multiquote button first though before the others.


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## spirit

The Blue Beast said:


> If I barely had enough confidence to unplug a fan what makes you think I'll work up the guts to take the PC out of the case and run a boot disc?



Running Memtest is as simple as burning the ISO to a CD (which according to your thread aptly titled 'Crap' you know how to do) and then booting off the disc and letting the test run for several hours. 

But I try to help you and you just come back with this so I kind of think it's pointless helping you because you ignore our advice. 

As I said in your last thread about the fans, if you're not prepared to try and solve the problem it's not going to go away. These are the diagnostics steps you take when you experience problems like this. They usually don't just magically go away. If you can't do it, try and find somebody else who can - consider a computer repair shop or a friend. 

As Voyagerfan said in your last thread - if you're just going to reject our advice then please don't bother posting. It's a waste of our time. Good to see you really took onboard what he said, too.


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## tylerjrb

a quick easy way to do it is to do memtest or try something like this which can be done by just downloading and installing it. you should run memtest x86 if you do not find anything just to sure.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Memory-Tweak/MemTest.shtml

the psu or ram is most likely at fault but as it keeps running is there any LED'S lit up on the mobo. it could be cpu if there is a small piece of debri stopping a pin from making a connection but this is highly unlikely if its been running good untill now.

is there no bsod etc? see if you can get a crash report.


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## spirit

I'm pretty sure it's RAM or PSU.


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## The VCR King

johnb35 said:


> Here is an image. To multiquote posts simple press the multiquote button here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then press the quote button on all the other posts that you want to reply to, you must hit the multiquote button first though before the others.


Thanks. I can't believe how dumb I am!



spirit said:


> Running Memtest is as simple as burning the ISO to a CD (which according to your thread aptly titled 'Crap' you know how to do) and then booting off the disc and letting the test run for several hours.
> 
> But I try to help you and you just come back with this so I kind of think it's pointless helping you because you ignore our advice.
> 
> As I said in your last thread about the fans, if you're not prepared to try and solve the problem it's not going to go away. These are the diagnostics steps you take when you experience problems like this. They usually don't just magically go away. If you can't do it, try and find somebody else who can - consider a computer repair shop or a friend.
> 
> As Voyagerfan said in your last thread - if you're just going to reject our advice then please don't bother posting. It's a waste of our time. Good to see you really took onboard what he said, too.


I'll go ahead and try it and if it fails, I'll take it to a repair shop.



tylerjrb said:


> a quick easy way to do it is to do memtest or try something like this which can be done by just downloading and installing it. you should run memtest x86 if you do not find anything just to sure.
> http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Memory-Tweak/MemTest.shtml


I don't feel comfortable getting software from softpedia. Last time I did that my PC got infected with spyware and keyloggers.



tylerjrb said:


> ...the psu or ram is most likely at fault but as it keeps running is there any LED'S lit up on the mobo. it could be cpu if there is a small piece of debri stopping a pin from making a connection but this is highly unlikely if its been running good untill now.
> 
> is there no bsod etc? see if you can get a crash report.


All of my mobo LEDs are brightly lit they're beautiful shade of blue. 
The only BSOD I've ever had with this machine was a bad graphics card driver but that was fixed after I ran updates.



spirit said:


> I'm pretty sure it's RAM or PSU.


I think it is probably the PSU failing because when I got the PC from my friend he said the PSU gave him troubles in the past as well, namely, random shutdowns/blackouts. I don't think it is the RAM because I have only had my Corsair Vengeance 8GB since this July when I upgraded the PC.


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## The VCR King

johnb35 said:


> Here is an image. To multiquote posts simple press the multiquote button here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then press the quote button on all the other posts that you want to reply to, you must hit the multiquote button first though before the others.



I noticed your browser is called "PaleMoon". Is that on Mac?


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## johnb35

Nope Windows 7 and its a great browser.  

http://www.palemoon.org/

Download from here.

http://relmirror2.palemoon.org/release/palemoon-24.7.1.win32.installer.exe


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## spirit

The Blue Beast said:


> I think it is probably the PSU failing because when I got the PC from my friend he said the PSU gave him troubles in the past as well, namely, random shutdowns/blackouts. I don't think it is the RAM because I have only had my Corsair Vengeance 8GB since this July when I upgraded the PC.



Could be PSU but just so you're aware RAM can go wrong at any time and can even be bad out of the box. I've bought sticks that have gone within a few weeks.

Tried resetting the BIOS?


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> Tried resetting the BIOS?


Yeah, like I know how to do that...


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## johnb35

The easiest way to reset the bios is to remove power cord from power supply, remove cmos battery from motherboard, press and hold the power button on the case for 10 seconds then wait 10 minutes.  Then reinsert battery, reconnect power cable and try booting up.  Your system date and time will have changed so you will need to set that back up, along with any special settings in the bios if you changed anything.


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## The VCR King

There is a button by the onboard USB labeled "CMOS." Do I press that?


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## beers

At this point you'd probably honestly be better off taking it back to Microcenter..


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## spirit

The Blue Beast said:


> Yeah, like I know how to do that...



What you do mate is go into your BIOS and then find the option to reset it or load fail-safe defaults. 

Read your motherboard manual if you're unsure!

Honestly, how experienced are you with computer hardware? I'm getting the impression from the fact that you don't know how to reset a BIOS and that you're scared to remove a graphics card to unplug a fan that you are probably very novice so I agree with Beers and just get somebody else to do it.


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## The VCR King

Sorry to bump this topic but it happened again today. No display from the GPU, no HDD activity, and no USB power. I could not use the power button to turn it off. I had to manually unplug the power supply and plug it back in and reset the machine. I don't know what is causing these strange blackouts but it is getting old really fast.

Is there a diagnostic software I can use and try to find the root of the issue? I am beginning to suspect it is my GPU drivers since, if you read my other topics, you'd know that they are acting pretty stupid.


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## ninjabubbles3

Please dont ask us to solve your problems if you arent willing ro do what we say


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## The VCR King

It just happened again, but this time the PC totally powered off. Boom. Dead. Nothing.

I got it powered back on though, so I suspect my power supply has taken a crap. It's a Cougar CMX 1000-watt.

Edit: When I powered it on there was no power going to the motherboard or drives, but when I hit the reset button to reboot the machine everything had power.


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## ninjabubbles3

I'm sure that your power supply has enough wattage to power your parts, but what do you have in it again?


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## The VCR King

It just happened again today. I was watching a TV stream (Nickreboot.com) and suddenly the stream began lagging then the computer instantly shut off. It just stopped. The whole system lost power. I just booted it up and it seems to be working fine again.

Edit: Does my computer take logs where I can see why it keeps dying or could it not take logs because it just loses power like *that*?


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## beers

I'd open Afterburner or something and monitor temps.  Maybe your 2D clocks are getting stuck in 3D mode or similar (I've had that happen with my 290, 90C on desktop lol).

Did you ever replace your suspect PSU, or should it still be considered a potential culprit?


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## Okedokey

upgrade all chipset drivers and motherboard drivers/bios. this sounds like a c state issue

http://au.msi.com/support/mb/890FXAGD65.html#down-driver&Win7 64


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## Punk

There is going to be a time when you'll have to do something you've never done before... Otherwise you won't get anywhere.

If you're not willing to run at least memtest86 or even have the initiative to get it from their official website if you don't like softpedia then there is absolutely nothing we can do to help you.

You keeping us to date with your computer failing is useless unless you try what we told you.


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## The VCR King

beers said:


> I'd open Afterburner or something and monitor temps.  Maybe your 2D clocks are getting stuck in 3D mode or similar (I've had that happen with my 290, 90C on desktop lol).
> 
> Did you ever replace your suspect PSU, or should it still be considered a potential culprit?



Ive been using Speccy to monitor my temps, and my idle temps are:


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## Geoff

The VCR King said:


> Ive been using Speccy to monitor my temps, and my idle temps are:


What did Memtest show when you ran it?


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## Punk

I'm going to be nice and show you a tutorial on how to run memtest86:

[ut]K5JuiUxATOI[/ut]


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## The VCR King

Ram passed the test. I think it is a power supply issue.


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## beers

So why haven't you done anything about it since you last mentioned that in October?


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## The VCR King

The computer is usable, and this only occurs every 10 or so days, and I can just reboot it and it's back to normal for awhile.


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## beers

Eh sounds like not worth worrying about then.


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## The VCR King

I still want to know why it just loses power like someone pulled the plug all the sudden.


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## Punk

The VCR King said:


> Ram passed the test. I think it is a power supply issue.



How long did you run the test? It needs at least four hours to be sure. Let it run so we can completely rule out the RAM.

EDIT: but yeah sounds like a bad PSU to me, try another one to be sure.


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## Okedokey

As Ive said, check your drivers and bios.


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## beers

The VCR King said:


> I still want to know why it just loses power like someone pulled the plug all the sudden.



Nah, you just said it's functional and works fine.

Unless you mean it doesn't work fine?


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## The VCR King

Bump!
I finally managed to record a video of what happens so you guys can SEE what the PC does! Maybe we can finally figure this out!


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## voyagerfan99

How about you build a new computer already?

Did you check your suspend mode? It's probably in S1 sleep or something.


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## Laquer Head

The VCR King said:


> *Bump!*



From August 25, 2014... thats one hell of a bump!!!!!


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## The VCR King

voyagerfan99 said:


> How about you build a new computer already?
> 
> Did you check your suspend mode? It's probably in S1 sleep or something.


1. Not enough money, so I'm trying to make do with this one

2. All sleep modes are disabled.


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## Laquer Head

The VCR King said:


> 1. Not enough money, so I'm trying to make do with this one
> 
> 2. All sleep modes are disabled.



I imagine you must have saved quite a bit by now, you've been saving for new stuff since last winter? right?>


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## The VCR King

Laquer Head said:


> I imagine you must have saved quite a bit by now, you've been saving for new stuff since last winter? right?>


Well the saving now is toward a first car for myself. The PC is a second priority now but I want to finally figure out wtf is going on with it so it doesn't explode or something and I really am screwed.


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## Laquer Head

The VCR King said:


> Well the saving now is toward a first car for myself. The PC is a second priority now but I want to finally figure out wtf is going on with it so it doesn't explode or something and I really am screwed.



Its admirable that you are dedicating savings to a vehicle, I think that is a smart decision and will benefit you in so many ways, moreso than a PC could.

As far as your rig goes, I think you know what people are gonna say, you've been having issues for minimum 2 years now.. it kinda is what it as at this point. You need some new gear..plain and simple. I don't think any amount of analyzing is going to change this fact.

I know you have a thirst for knowledge, and thats awesome, but there comes a time where you need to say - hey this just aint worth the sweat!


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## spirit

Sounds like some kind of short or other motherboard issue. How about disconnecting your internal card reader and maybe the USB hub? I've seen at work sometimes older PCs that are on the way out won't display or anything with certain USB ports populated or even when a network cable is plugged in.

You've replaced pretty much everything now apart from the board and CPU, so difficult to really suggest anything other than you have some kind of board defect. How often does this happen now?


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> Sounds like some kind of short or other motherboard issue. How about disconnecting your internal card reader and maybe the USB hub? I've seen at work sometimes older PCs that are on the way out won't display or anything with certain USB ports populated or even when a network cable is plugged in.
> 
> You've replaced pretty much everything now apart from the board and CPU, so difficult to really suggest anything other than you have some kind of board defect. How often does this happen now?


I've tried all the above to no avail. This happens about once or twice per week


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> I've tried all the above to no avail. This happens about once or twice per week


Did you ever try updating your BIOS and chipset drivers?


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> Did you ever try updating your BIOS and chipset drivers?


No. I know I _should_ but I am honestly *scared to *because I have a fear of something freezing up and then the motherboard is dead...


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## Laquer Head

The VCR King said:


> .. *I have a fear of something freezing up and then the motherboard is dead...*



Not really that far off, as is.....


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## The VCR King

Laquer Head said:


> Not really that far off, as is.....


True true


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> No. I know I _should_ but I am honestly *scared to *because I have a fear of something freezing up and then the motherboard is dead...


You'll only brick the board if you remove the media the BIOS file is on whilst it is flashing or the power goes out. It takes a couple of seconds to do and I bet it will help to solve your issue. Get your motherboard manual and read up on how to do it. then do it.

You've done stuff far riskier than flashing the BIOS in the past - running your PC on a crappy PSU for 2 years, for example.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> You'll only brick the board if you remove the media the BIOS file is on whilst it is flashing or the power goes out. It takes a couple of seconds to do and I bet it will help to solve your issue. Get your motherboard manual and read up on how to do it. then do it.
> 
> You've done stuff far riskier than flashing the BIOS in the past - running your PC on a crappy PSU for 2 years, for example.



I have no way to get into the bios. Even with a crappy PS/2 keyboard, when I power up the PC the MSi spashscreen comes and goes so fast that the keyboard isn't even powered on and Windows is already loading.


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> I have no way to get into the bios. Even with a crappy PS/2 keyboard, when I power up the PC the MSi spashscreen comes and goes so fast that the keyboard isn't even powered on and Windows is already loading.


You can probably download a program from MSI that will flash it through Windows without the need to go into the BIOS. See what your manual says.

If not, you'll have to buy/borrow a USB keyboard, but it's likely that updating the BIOS could help solve your issue. If you update it (and your motherboard drivers) and there's still a problem, then you are likely experiencing some kind of board failure.


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## voyagerfan99

spirit said:


> You can probably download a program from MSI that will flash it through Windows without the need to go into the BIOS. See what your manual says.


This is generally how things are done these days.



The VCR King said:


> I have no way to get into the bios. Even with a crappy PS/2 keyboard, when I power up the PC the MSi spashscreen comes and goes so fast


You're not hitting the key quick enough then.


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## Okedokey

Have you tried to clear the cmos?


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## Darren

voyagerfan99 said:


> This is generally how things are done these days.
> 
> 
> You're not hitting the key quick enough then.



No he's right. Some MSI BIOS are flat impossible to get into, even if you sit there spamming the key constantly. My previous board pretty much required me to use the MSI utility to get to BIOS. I just disabled quick boot when I needed to get into BIOS, otherwise I'd have to load into Windows then restart using the MSI utility.


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## The VCR King

Darren said:


> No he's right. Some MSI BIOS are flat impossible to get into, even if you sit there spamming the key constantly. My previous board pretty much required me to use the MSI utility to get to BIOS. I just disabled quick boot when I needed to get into BIOS, otherwise I'd have to load into Windows then restart using the MSI utility.


Mines impossible to get into, at least for me. Like I have to take it to a shop when I have reinstalled Windows in the past because it boots up so fast that it doesn't even have a chance to spin up the install DVD and read the boot disc info and BOOM! login screen.


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> Mines impossible to get into, at least for me. Like I have to take it to a shop when I have reinstalled Windows in the past because it boots up so fast that it doesn't even have a chance to spin up the install DVD and read the boot disc info and BOOM! login screen.


Have you looked into seeing if you can flash the BIOS through Windows like suggested?


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