# Car and Driver Show emberassing for USA



## Styleprojekt (Mar 5, 2005)

So i watched this show on Spike TV called : Car and Driver
I am sure some of you have heard of it before and here are my toughts about it:
In the first one i saw, they were looking for the "Business man car 2005"
The compared:
Jaguar XJ
BMW 7 Series
Lexus
Audi A8
Mercedes S Class
VW Phaeton

And the lexus won.....
now i wont claim the Lexus is not a good car, but please. How can a LEXUS beat a JAGUAR and a MERCEDES??????
Lexus is the cheap counterpiece to all those expensive cars, and i remind you they were looking for "Business car 2005" and not cheapest car 2005.
The best part was "we couldn't find a 2005 Mercedes S-class, so a 2003 had to do. WTF IS THAT!!!!!????? How can you claim to be americas best and most successful Car tester/reviewer and bring bullshit like that? Now multiple international Car testers have made statements that the S-class is the most demanded and most perfect car of all, and even the design is so neutral that everybody MUST like it. I see way more S-class driven by Big boys than those Lexus pieces of tart.....The Lexus btw is a copy of the 95 Mercedes S-class if you ask me, but thats just me.

Anyway: " What makes the lexus the winner is its price.." Again, totally off topic winer comment.


2nd. Comparison.
I think it was:

Ford GT
Lamborghini Murcialago
Porsche GT2
Ferrari Challenge Stradale

And guess who won. Right, the GT....haha i am loving it, Comment was:
"The Ford simply sticks better to the road" oook, now i could take this when you compare a Corvette, Porsche 911, Ferrari 360 Spider BUT PLEASE!!! You are comparing 1 street car and 3 extreme Racing cars, where intentionally the ESP and other bull was left out in order to make mean evil racing machines, and then the winner wins because he has ESP? Sorry but these idiots know nothing about what they are doing.....
In England, Germany and South Africa, i saw similar tests, and the testers were drooling over the extreme power of the Porsche and Ferrari, and the joy they have to control the beast at the edge. Now i know you will say that they are intended for everyday driving, but in the USA you cant drive faster than 70mph anyway, and as i said, GT2 and Challenge stradale are special racing version slimmed down to the bare bones to make mean racing machines, and not toys......


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## Jon Boy (Mar 6, 2005)

Do you ever get top gear over in America.  Wel whatever is on there is true what is good is actually good and what is shit probably is.  They have a race track and trst em out race them and see which car they can get fastest.  Its an amazing programme.  The test from farrari enzos to the new smart car. lol  The programme you watched sounded like it should never have made air.


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## Yeti (Mar 6, 2005)

Shouldn't this be in some autombile forum or something? 
I could argue about this stuff but I don't feel like typing at the moment.  Basically if you buy a car based on what a show tells you you're either really stupid or have way too much money.


> i could take this when you compare a Corvette, Porsche 911, Ferrari 360 Spider BUT PLEASE!!! You are comparing 1 street car and 3 extreme Racing cars


Are you implying that the Ford GT is not a race car?  Its based on the GT40 (of course) which was the original "Ferrari slayer." It is also quite a well engineered car having looked at much of internals (and I am an engineer )


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## Styleprojekt (Mar 6, 2005)

Well i never said the cars are not fantastic, and what i said was they are comparing 2 cars intentionally made for racing and extreme speeds, and then the Ford GT40 made as a street fast car. And no, you CANNOT compare a Stradale to a GT40, to my knowledge the car has bare luxury and has no radio in it. 
Eventho the Ford beats in 0-60, overall is what counts and that means on a track....Schumacher does not have the fastest car in the Formula one, but the car overall is the best and performs best with the driving skills of its drivers
And plus, what would you prefer to have on your hood? Porsche, Ferrari or Ford.....well for me its clear and i guess for the sales reports too

When you compare budget, compare budget, when you compare "cars" overall, then no way the Ford wins. I'll put my hand in fire that the Ford will not beat a Porsche or Ferrari......


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## stalex111 (Mar 6, 2005)

Forget what they put on those tv shows, always weird. By the way, i read an artical recently. It was stating that American cars tended not to have a very good grip on the road! (The Ford simply sticks better to the road)


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## SFR (Mar 6, 2005)

Most people still look at FORD's and think Fix Or Repair Daily... but, things have changed a little.

The FordGT is a real nice ride..  I have not see the episode you speak of but dont count out the FordGT because you have some stigma against Ford automobiles.

Porche and Ferrari brings with it a tradition of excellence and class ... yet these do not quite have luxery style interiors..  ... plus add thousand and thousands of additionally $$$ keeping them in top condition... 

yet those annoying toyota's and honda's we see crusing around can easily beat all three off the line (its pretty crazy that a cheap car with a ton of work can perform better than anything you've been talking about) anyway, back on topic... until you've driven a Ford GT and a Porche and a Ferrai... you really have to trust someone who has...


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## Styleprojekt (Mar 6, 2005)

stalex111 said:
			
		

> Forget what they put on those tv shows, always weird. By the way, i read an artical recently. It was stating that American cars tended not to have a very good grip on the road! (The Ford simply sticks better to the road)




Well what that means is that on a race track, the joy also lies in drifting slightly and dancing around corners. Thats what was ment wich that the Porsche and Ferrari are able to do that.....but the testers there i guess prefered a boring ESP system to keep the car straight.....


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## Styleprojekt (Mar 6, 2005)

SFR said:
			
		

> Most people still look at FORD's and think Fix Or Repair Daily... but, things have changed a little.
> 
> The FordGT is a real nice ride..  I have not see the episode you speak of but dont count out the FordGT because you have some stigma against Ford automobiles.
> 
> ...




I personally dont have anything against Ford. In fact, we used to have fords. 98 Ford KA Lufthansa edition,
2001 Ford Windstar

And i also said that the ford GT is a fantastic car, but in my eyes, and almost any other tester in other countries think that the Ford GT is not worth a POrsche or Ferrari. I noticed that in almost all tests on Car and Driver an american car wins. But why are american cars not the best internationally and why are they not the most craved cars? I wonder....
And SFR, between you and me...what would YOU prefer, you dont need to say it, but just think for yourself, wouldnt you prefer a classy Porsche, Lamborghini or Ferrari over a Ford, a peoples brand like Volkswagen for Germany??????
Its a question of Pride, and anybody who can afford it will chose the european sports car over the Ford. Its tought to get support in forums because most of the times people here do not have $150 grand to spend on a car. 

The engine wich the Ford GT has in, is quiet a biggy and needs maintenance as well, so that car will cost you money to maintain to
And how can you say a Porsche does not have a Luxurious interior? Even the slimmed down version is still equal if not better than the GT's...
Porsche is the most luxurious sports car out there, and thats why is the most driven one too.


About the Honda comparison, yeah so what? You really wanna have a piece of shit honda a beat a Ferrari, the hondas engine will die after not too long. And its like comparing a Overclocked 2.4 Ghz CPU to a 3.6....its not intended for that kind of power, but the 3.6 is...and you can also increase its power too.

Bottom line, whoever has the money goes with the ferrari, who doesnt just tries to support its homecountry's cars.....and talks


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## SFR (Mar 6, 2005)

Styleprojekt said:
			
		

> And SFR, between you and me...what would YOU prefer, you dont need to say it, but just think for yourself, wouldnt you prefer a classy Porsche, Lamborghini or Ferrari over a Ford, a peoples brand like Volkswagen for Germany??????


 

Between you and me, of course I would like a Ferrari or Porsche... At the same time I would also like a FordGT... any of the three would be fun to drive... 

Now back to the real world... I want a Dodge Viper


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## Styleprojekt (Mar 6, 2005)

SFR said:
			
		

> Between you and me, of course I would like a Ferrari or Porsche... At the same time I would also like a FordGT... any of the three would be fun to drive...
> 
> Now back to the real world... I want a Dodge Viper




hey bro, in the real world i want a Mercedes SL 55 AMG + Brabus input
or to keep my feet on the floor a Mercedes SLR....hmmm maybe i even prefer a Porsche Carrera GT.....i can't settle for one


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## Yeti (Mar 6, 2005)

> the joy also lies in drifting slightly and dancing around corners.


Hmmm, I don't know... going around a curve at 200 mph I think I'd like to be sticking to the ground 


> The engine wich the Ford GT has in, is quiet a biggy and needs maintenance as well,


And other engines won't?  Granted its supercharged, but I don't see it requiring additional maintainance.


> Now back to the real world... I want a Dodge Viper


Exactly  Except I'm not a big fan of the new styling.  I'd probably get a 2001 GTS Coupe if I had the money.

Back to the original topic - if you actually have the money to buy one of those cars go test drive them yourself.  Why take _anyone_ else's word for it?


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## Styleprojekt (Mar 6, 2005)

Yeti said:
			
		

> Hmmm, I don't know... going around a curve at 200 mph I think I'd like to be sticking to the ground
> 
> And other engines won't?  Granted its supercharged, but I don't see it requiring additional maintainance.
> 
> ...



Well my friend going 200mph around a corner i just generally wouldnt want to be you.

And people dont take the word for it, but its giving the cars bad image towards the crowd who has no idea....not like it matters but its still rude and stupid.

The thing about the engine was an answer to the guy saying that pricey cars need maintenance so i just said so does the Ford...


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## Yeti (Mar 7, 2005)

> Well my friend going 200mph around a corner i just generally wouldnt want to be you.


Well, thats what they're designed to do.


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## Styleprojekt (Mar 7, 2005)

Yeti said:
			
		

> Well, thats what they're designed to do.



not really if you ask me, not even a 100mph


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## Yeti (Mar 7, 2005)

> not really if you ask me, not even a 100mph


So your saying that the 500 hp is only for a good 0-60 or quarter mile time?  Going 100 mph doesn't even come close to using half of the engines power.


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## SFR (Mar 7, 2005)

Yeti said:
			
		

> So your saying that the 500 hp is only for a good 0-60 or quarter mile time? Going 100 mph doesn't even come close to using half of the engines power.


 
My car has 170HP and I got it up to 130MPH .... and this was on a freeway that needs repair


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## Styleprojekt (Mar 7, 2005)

Yeti said:
			
		

> So your saying that the 500 hp is only for a good 0-60 or quarter mile time?  Going 100 mph doesn't even come close to using half of the engines power.




Dude, you were talking about going 200mph around a corner/turn.....so please.....of cours the cars CAN go and are SUPPOSED to go much faster on straight highways, but not TURNS and CORNERS!!!


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## SFR (Mar 7, 2005)

Styleprojekt said:
			
		

> Dude, you were talking about going 200mph around a corner/turn.....so please.....of cours the cars CAN go and are SUPPOSED to go much faster on straight highways, but not TURNS and CORNERS!!!


 

If its a sharp turn no... of course not.. no car is meant to go that fast on a turn.. other than an indy or nascar race car....

anyway this is turning into a pointless discussion... move on.


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## Yeti (Mar 7, 2005)

> Dude, you were talking about going 200mph around a corner/turn but not TURNS and CORNERS!!!


I believe I strategically picked the word "curve," _not_ a corner or tight turn... as in a banked oval track.


> .....so please.....of cours the cars CAN go and are SUPPOSED to go much faster on straight highways,


So my point stays, the power is going to waste.  Aside from a terrible rolling resistance, a coefficienty of drag of 1, or going up a 45 degree hill, you'll never need 500 hp at a constant speed.


> anyway this is turning into a pointless discussion... move on.


Yes, please!


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## Styleprojekt (Mar 8, 2005)

Yeti said:
			
		

> I believe I strategically picked the word "curve," _not_ a corner or tight turn... as in a banked oval track.
> 
> So my point stays, the power is going to waste.  Aside from a terrible rolling resistance, a coefficienty of drag of 1, or going up a 45 degree hill, you'll never need 500 hp at a constant speed.
> 
> Yes, please!




Yeah you are right, you picked "curve"..my bad. I just related it directly to a corner i guess because obviously the Porsche & Ferrari sticks to the ground going 200 on a nascar track, but where else do you find a curve in normal streets where a car can go over 100mph? A highway wouldnt fall into that category because thats more like a streeeeetched curve where even Truck can go 120 and have no problem. 
And also i tought you ment curve cause i was talking about when you push the car on purpose in a turn and make the tail kickout to drift. But like i said, that only happens when you push it on purpose and thats what i guess the C&D testers didnt like. However, others do....I dont see the point tho when you want to do it on purpose, that you can't and you have a ESP system kick in to stabelize the ride and slow you down. Some cars have a ESP off button as you probably know, but i dont think the GT40 does...so that made it fall back in many international tests...


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## SirKenin (Aug 8, 2006)

Reminds me of the ultimate ten sports cars show I saw on the Discovery Channel.  The Ferrari Enzo was beat out by a...wait for it....wait for it....


MAZDA *^&^ING MIATA!!!!!!   hahaha.  I choked.  I wanted to throw something at the TV.


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## Vista (Aug 8, 2006)

Here is my dream car... will probably never be able to get the 1.5 million $ (!) to buy one...


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## P11 (Aug 8, 2006)

Get a Mercedes SLK-55 w/SLR engine, no car can beat that.

http://videos.streetfire.net/category/Ferrari/0/9599cc8e-2ea2-4d4c-b7df-25eb4c3fc7f0.htm


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## jimmymac (Aug 8, 2006)

P11 said:


> Get a Mercedes SLK-55 w/SLR engine, no car can beat that.
> 
> http://videos.streetfire.net/category/Ferrari/0/9599cc8e-2ea2-4d4c-b7df-25eb4c3fc7f0.htm





lovely car but i hate mercs to be honest.

and plenty to beat it..

veyron im sure could...otherwise Maserati MC12, Pagani Zonda F and the Koenigsigg CCX would destroy it for sure


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## P11 (Aug 8, 2006)

jimmymac said:


> lovely car but i hate mercs to be honest.
> 
> and plenty to beat it..
> 
> veyron im sure could...otherwise Maserati MC12, Pagani Zonda F and the Koenigsigg CCX would destroy it for sure



Sadly, neither car can beat it  I'll post 0-62mph speeds if you wish.


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## jimmymac (Aug 8, 2006)

go for it, and if your about to say 1.67 seconds then all i can say is dont believe everything you read, thers absolutely nothing confirming that it can do that at all. Not even the owner Mohammed Ben Sulayem has confirmed any details of its 0-60 time yet.

Notice in the video its not beating the enzo by much, the enzo does 0-60 in just under 3.3 seconds. Im sorry but after 1.67 seconds on that video the merc is not 2 seconds ahead of the enzo.

Also note the sound from the enzo's engine, he is short shifting quite drastically, stick a decent driver in there who knows how to shift and im sure they would be nearer equal.

the engine of that slr pumps out 615BHP and is expected to max out at 350km/h, convert that to mph and you have a car that will do 30mph less than the koenigsigg and 40+mph less than the veyron will do

A stock SLK weighs 1795kg and with that engine added i imagine that it weighs more, the enzo a mere 1365kg.

So we have a car weighing 1795kg + with 615bhp and a car weighing 1365kg with 650hp, Put simply the enzo should win easily.

So many people that have seen that video have commented on the fact that the enzo is short shifting terribly and should have been more in that race if not ahead in that race...1.67 seconds is rubbish made up on the internet im afraid


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## P11 (Aug 8, 2006)

1.67 is certainly a lie, but regardless the SLK55 w/SLR engine will always beat the enzo.


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## jimmymac (Aug 8, 2006)

not convinced it will, a real driver in both cars shifting correctly and i think that the pair would be closer matched, hell if you want me too i can get my uncle over with a bentley and with a bit off subtle short shifting and not pushing as hard as possible and i'll show you how my audi will out do it on a straight


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