# Win 8.1 question



## SpringWater

Is windows 8.1 an update for windows 8 or is it a completely new operating system?


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## tremmor

Update. A release for ver 8.


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## S.T.A.R.S.

It's an update only.
Many people like it a lot more since it has the famous START button.


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## spirit

SpringWater said:


> Is windows 8.1 an update for windows 8 or is it a completely new operating system?



Think of it like a service pack. It's a free update but obviously you'll be able to buy Windows 8.1 discs when it comes out (a bit like you can buy Windows 7 with SP1 slipstreamed).


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## Junglist0682

I understand the whole not having a start button, but really... it is not a big deal.

I was using a windows 7 PC the other day and I felt weird using it. lol

And that is just because I was browsing. doh!


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## SpringWater

Thanks for all the replies guys! So since it's sort of a service pack am I gonna have to manually download it or is it going to show up as a system update?


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## spirit

SpringWater said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys! So since it's sort of a service pack am I gonna have to manually download it or is it going to show up as a system update?



It should be available for you to download on Windows Update on October 17th.

It was released to manufacturing a couple of weeks ago, but won't be released on Windows Update until the 17th.


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## DMGrier

Does anyone know if you can remove their version of a start button? I am just saying it only takes you to metro, I would rather remove it and just use a third party start button that actually does something.

I am not against metro but having two start buttons to take me to metro seems a little repetitive and would rather have the start on the side for metro and a desktop start button to use in the desktop.


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## spirit

I don't know if there is a way of disabling it, there probably is, but when you install a third-party solution it may remove it for you.


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## Elidicious

I'm now downloading the update. What I'm worried about is the archive Disc D: .
Laptop's HDD is 320 GB.
I've divided it into 2 parts. 100 local disc C: and the rest is D:.
After the download/installation does it mean the D: will merge with C: and become as it was before?


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## johnb35

No, it won't change it at all, it will just update the os to 8.1.


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## Elidicious

Oh alright! That's a relief! thanx! 

Btw, are you using windows 8.1 now ? If yes, what do you think?


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## johnb35

WINDOWS 8 SUCKS!!!  SO DOES 8.1   I will never upgrade from 7 unless any future version of windows is comparable to it.  Windows 8 just isn't user friendly, especially for older people just learning a computer.


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## AlienMenace

SpringWater said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys! So since it's sort of a service pack am I gonna have to manually download it or is it going to show up as a system update?


You will not see it in the Windows update, you will have to go into the "Store" to get the free update.
I just did mine. The windows start button can be configured to start at the desktop instead of the tiles (Start menu). But i have my Start 8 still running on my system, didn't change it.
And John it isn't a bad OS, I have been running it since December with no problems what so ever. I beta test both 7 and 8. And decided to get 8 instead of Windows 7.


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## johnb35

AlienMenace said:


> And John it isn't a bad OS, I have been running it since December with no problems what so ever. I beta test both 7 and 8. And decided to get 8 instead of Windows 7.



Well, I just tried to get a clients machine upgraded to 8.1 so she can get the start menu back and it won't even download the update, gives an error.  I'll toss that in as everybody and their mother trying to download the update.  Told the client to try later in the evening to see if it would work.  She don't like it as it is now and has asked me to possibly put windows 7 on it.  She just bought it last week.


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## voyagerfan99

johnb35 said:


> Well, I just tried to get a clients machine upgraded to 8.1 so she can get the start menu back and it won't even download the update, gives an error.  I'll toss that in as everybody and their mother trying to download the update.  Told the client to try later in the evening to see if it would work.  She don't like it as it is now and has asked me to possibly put windows 7 on it.  She just bought it last week.



Just install ClassicShell and set it to look like the Windows 7 start menu with an Aero appearance.


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## claptonman

Download 8.1 on my virtual machine, looks good. Downloading now on my desktop. Takes a long time, even on my 30mb connection.


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## Junglist0682

claptonman said:


> Download 8.1 on my virtual machine, looks good. Downloading now on my desktop. Takes a long time, even on my 30mb connection.



it took me awhile as well... as far as the update goes... just make sure the update is done by going to the store as mentioned in another post. 

I for one believe it runs way better than windows 8, but I've only noticed a slight difference. 

Still need to continue to use it. :good:


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## spirit

johnb35 said:


> WINDOWS 8 SUCKS!!!  SO DOES 8.1   I will never upgrade from 7 unless any future version of windows is comparable to it.  Windows 8 just isn't user friendly, especially for older people just learning a computer.



That was pretty much my attitude until I actually started using it everyday and found that really, it's not a whole lot different to 7 (apart from the Start Screen of course). You can get used to it very quickly. I have found that 8 is certainly a lot more stable than 7, and a bit faster too (booting up especially, even on an SSD).

Put it this way. My mum was using XP from virtually the day it came out about 12 years ago until earlier on this year when we built her a new PC and put 8 Pro on it. She's getting along with it fine, and she is by no means 'tech savvy'. If she can master it, I think 99% of people can.

As for 8.1. I have installed it on my secondary PC which runs 8 Pro and it's a decent upgrade. Definitely no reason not to upgrade since it's free. One thing I do really like about it is the fact that the Start Screen background can now the same as the desktop background and you can have slideshows on your lockscreen, but one of the best changes is that it it is much easier to shut down. Just right click on the Start Button and click Shut Down from there. There are other programs on there too, like Run and Command Prompt which is good.

On my main PC, I have 8 Enterprise and upgrading to 8.1 is a little trickier since it's not available for download in the Windows Store for 8 Enterprise users. Had to download the OS again from Dad's MSDN again last night and will install it today. Hopefully I can just do an upgrade from 8 to 8.1 without actually having to reformat and reinstall.


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## AlienMenace

Granted, 7 is pretty good. But you couldn't tell my friend that. After getting it and getting rid of Vista, he ran Windows 7 Ultimate for about a year, then a couple of Months ago it came up and told him he did not have a "Genuine Version" of it. He bought it Retailed at Best Buy. So, he reformatted it and start over with it. he had a heck of time getting it back on his laptop. And by all means, he isn't dumb when it comes to computers. My friend has terminal cancer and he said he would give me the laptop, when it is time. He asked me what is the first thing I'm going to do with it. I told him, ripping 7 out of it and putting 8 in it. He laughed.


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## DMGrier

So far stable and fast, like I said previously the two start buttons seems overkill but the other day I using my buddies Yoga and it kind of made sense since when using it like a laptop you use the start on the task bar and when using it like a tablet you use the start button in the side bar. Kind gave a more natural feel I guess.

AlienMenace I am sorry to hear about your friend, best wishes.

I know that is one thing that got fixed right away in Windows 8 was the activation. On Windows 7 when I do a install it does not always go through and I have to call the activation number which is a pain in the neck with all the steps on numbers. Every time I have installed Windows 8 it tells me right away if the serial was accepted or not.


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## spirit

So far I'm enjoying it too. It seems to boot faster than 8 and I like the lock screen slideshows. 

Will upgrade my Mum's PC soon. She is currently on 8 Pro.


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## DMGrier

spirit said:


> So far I'm enjoying it too. It seems to boot faster than 8 and I like the lock screen slideshows.
> 
> Will upgrade my Mum's PC soon. She is currently on 8 Pro.



I just upgraded my Vaio, the only problem I ran into was I had to go to Sony website and download a update manager that updated the drivers for my hardware cause nothing worked upon first install.


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## spirit

My biggest problem was the Catalyst Control Centre. After upgrading, it didn't work. I did a search for new drivers through Device Manager, it downloaded some new drivers and then it worked again.


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## DMGrier

spirit said:


> My biggest problem was the Catalyst Control Centre. After upgrading, it didn't work. I did a search for new drivers through Device Manager, it downloaded some new drivers and then it worked again.



It makes me wonder how much they changed under the hood, not a big deal but I have never had drivers stop working whenever I have upgraded my computer, not even when I upgraded from Windows 7 to 8 which I read there where huge changes under the hood for Windows 8.


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## spirit

DMGrier said:


> It makes me wonder how much they changed under the hood, not a big deal but I have never had drivers stop working whenever I have upgraded my computer, not even when I upgraded from Windows 7 to 8 which I read there where huge changes under the hood for Windows 8.



Must've been quite a big change because I have Enterprise and it needed to be re-activated after the upgrade was complete. I have Pro on my other PC and that didn't need to be re-activated, but with Pro you could update via the Store whereas with Enterprise I had to download the entire 8.1 Enterprise ISO from TechNet, burn the ISO to a DVD and run the setup from inside of 8.


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## AlienMenace

I got this off of Cnet.com how you can get the ISO of Windows 8.1.
http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39...nload-the-official-microsoft-windows-8.1-iso/


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## Shane

AlienMenace said:


> I got this off of Cnet.com how you can get the ISO of Windows 8.1.
> http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39...nload-the-official-microsoft-windows-8.1-iso/



The problem with this,You cant install Windows 8.1 using a Windows 8 product key..so if you create your own Windows 8.1 disk using the ISO with the hopes to just clean install and use the 8.1 disk with the 8 key in the future it wont work.

You have to install windows 8,Then upgrade to 8.1...rather stupid really but this is Microsoft were talking about.


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## AlienMenace

Shane said:


> The problem with this,You cant install Windows 8.1 using a Windows 8 product key..so if you create your own Windows 8.1 disk using the ISO with the hopes to just clean install and use the 8.1 disk with the 8 key in the future it wont work.
> 
> You have to install windows 8,Then upgrade to 8.1...rather stupid really but this is Microsoft were talking about.


The idea of putting this out here is by pass the Store's download all the time. Not to do a clean install. Of course you have to reload Windows 8 first, but I really don't want to sit through internet downloads.


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## DMGrier

I unfortunately had to uninstall Windows 8.1, my wireless card stopped working which just cannot happen with me being a college student.

There is a way to get the serial of Windows 8 if it comes pre-installed on a machine. Is this topic allowed to be discussed on the forums? I couldn't imagine it being illegal since technically since we paid for a copy of Windows 8.


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## Elidicious

You know what happened with my windows 8.1?
I upgraded it 2 weeks ago and everything went pretty well. Today, while logging in my account there was this massage about windows updates and it told me to restart the computer for the updates to take effect. [I don't remember enabling automatic updates, nonetheless the laptop restarted itself because the battery dropped.]. After the restart, it's been *5 hours* and the laptop is not allowing me to enter Windows but there's this message saying "Getting windows ready. Don't turn off your computer". 

What the hell is going on? I turned it off and turned it back on again now and the message is still there. I can't even get in safe mode.
It didn't take me this long even when I upgraded it from 8 to 8.1.


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## Elidicious

It's been more than 15 hours now. Nothing has changed!
It turned it off and on several times but the problem persists!


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## Okedokey

Hold down shift while hard restarting it.  This will start it in safe mode.  Then conduct a repair or system restore.


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## Okedokey

Count yourself lucky. I shelled out 150 bucks and the fn thing wont even download.


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## DMGrier

Okedokey said:


> Count yourself lucky. I shelled out 150 bucks and the fn thing wont even download.



That sucks, I have been enjoying the performance but Windows 8.1 does not like my wifi card. I updated the driver but when I first boot up it will not find my network name, I have to manually type in the network name and password, then it will show with limited connection which then I must remove and reconnect to be able to hop online.

Windows 8.1 better UI, better performance, and better security but from my issue and what I am reading online a little everyone seems to be feeling this release to be a little more buggy then the launch of Windows 8, not Vista bad but still not as good a Windows 7 and 8.


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## Junglist0682

DMGrier said:


> That sucks, I have been enjoying the performance but Windows 8.1 does not like my wifi card. I updated the driver but when I first boot up it will not find my network name, I have to manually type in the network name and password, then it will show with limited connection which then I must remove and reconnect to be able to hop online.
> 
> Windows 8.1 better UI, better performance, and better security but from my issue and what I am reading online a little everyone seems to be feeling this release to be a little more buggy then the launch of Windows 8, not Vista bad but still not as good a Windows 7 and 8.



I believe I am having the same problem. 

When I boot the computer I noticed it doesn't detect the network (this is also happening while I have the RJ45 connected) which is strange. 

I have to give it a few minutes. I was just thinking last night that I should go to device mangager and see if I can update the WIFI card, but again..

I am connected with cable : \

Strange


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## DMGrier

Junglist0682 said:


> I believe I am having the same problem.
> 
> When I boot the computer I noticed it doesn't detect the network (this is also happening while I have the RJ45 connected) which is strange.
> 
> I have to give it a few minutes. I was just thinking last night that I should go to device mangager and see if I can update the WIFI card, but again..
> 
> I am connected with cable : \
> 
> Strange



Same problem, when my computer does not display my network name my Ethernet does not work either. What is weird is it will show every other network connection within range but mine and I know mine is working since I have other devices running on the wireless network with no problems.

I remember when 8.1 hit the consumer preview Microsoft said that they where fixing wireless drivers and how they worked with Windows 8, they changed something and I know I am not the only one having problems.


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## Okedokey

DMGrier said:


> Same problem, when my computer does not display my network name my Ethernet does not work either. What is weird is it will show every other network connection within range but mine and I know mine is working since I have other devices running on the wireless network with no problems.
> 
> I remember when 8.1 hit the consumer preview Microsoft said that they where fixing wireless drivers and how they worked with Windows 8, they changed something and I know I am not the only one having problems.



No, this is a very common problem.


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## spirit

I've not had any problems so far apart from the Catalyst drivers but I just reinstalled them. The other machines which I have upgraded to 8.1 haven't had any problems for the most part, but on one of the PCs, I cannot browse into the router via IE11 and 8.1, or NAS drives. It worked fine with IE10 and Windows 8 though. 

Not got any PCs running 8.1 which are connected via Wi-Fi, so I can't say anything about that.

8.1 hasn't been the easiest upgrade ever though, going by the number of problems people are reporting. I have also noticed in my Windows Update there's been quite a few updates for 8.1 already.


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## Elidicious

Update:
Last night, after 2 days, I was able to get into Windows! I got rid of the "Getting Windows ready" message but it wanted me to activate Windows. It took me to the PC setting which didn't load so I had to turn off the computer and turn it back on. This time I got the message "Please wait" without entering Windows. I waited for 2 hours then I turned it off again. This time when I turned it back on it sent me to the old message "Getting windows ready. Don't turn off the computer".

F*cking hell! I'll take it to the repair guy so that he can re-format it and leave it working with W.8. I won't go to Windows 8.1 for a while.!


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## Okedokey

Im sticking with Windows 7 and getting a refund.  Simple as that.


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## DMGrier

Okedokey said:


> Im sticking with Windows 7 and getting a refund.  Simple as that.



Don't blame you at all, though I am sure when you call MS they will try and trouble shoot it before handing over the refund. I just was looking at the wireless card in my notebook is at least three years old in design and received it's last update in the beginning of 2012 which means I am probably not going to be getting a driver update to fix my issues with Windows 8.1.

So I don't think of Windows 8.1 as a service pack since the update does not come through the update manager. Does anyone know if all future bug fixes and security updates will be both compatible for Windows 8 and 8.1 or are they receiving different updates which means Windows 8 has a life cycle now?
From my understanding Microsoft is going to be releasing yearly updates like this now which if they do it like OS X and other Unix/Linux like operating systems you would think this means that eventually everyone will have to upgrade from Windows 8.0 to the current version even if that means breaking compatibility.


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## spirit

Windows 8 and 8.1 are receiving their own updates I think. Whenever I get an update in Windows Update, it's usually for just Windows 8.1. 

Take a look at my update history:






Note that before I upgraded to 8.1, I had hundreds of updates previously installed for 8, but it clears the update history when you upgrade and it also changes the OS installation date to when the 8.1 update was applied. I originally installed this copy of 8 on my PC on April 27th I think, but now it reckons that Windows was installed on October 19th, which is when I upgraded to 8.1.


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## DMGrier

Very interesting Spirit, like I mentioned earlier I don't think we can call this a service pack, I went to MS Windows life support page and it did not list 8.1 as a service pack or as a main release. I think they are going to be going up 0.1 every year cause it show support ends for Windows 8 in 2023 which if it goes up 0.1 edition per year that would be about the time Windows 9 would hit.


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## Okedokey

Ok update.

I acquired a Windows 8.1 Retail DVD ISO online and installed it in 15 minutes.

What really annoys me is that is all they needed to do.  Provide a bloody ISO file download.  The rest of us can sort out everything else.

It installed as I said in 15 minutes tops, and im now completely working from 8.1.

Seriously, why they have to make it such an epic fail??

And they wonder why people resort to piracy.  Especially us in Australia where it costs double the cost for the same bloody downloaded digital product as the USA.

Very annoyed.


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## DMGrier

Okedokey said:


> Ok update.
> 
> I acquired a Windows 8.1 Retail DVD ISO online and installed it in 15 minutes.
> 
> What really annoys me is that is all they needed to do.  Provide a bloody ISO file download.  The rest of us can sort out everything else.
> 
> It installed as I said in 15 minutes tops, and im now completely working from 8.1.
> 
> Seriously, why they have to make it such an epic fail??
> 
> And they wonder why people resort to piracy.  Especially us in Australia where it costs double the cost for the same bloody downloaded digital product as the USA.
> 
> Very annoyed.



The wonderful world of proprietary operating systems.


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## spirit

Okedokey said:


> Ok update.
> 
> I acquired a Windows 8.1 Retail DVD ISO online and installed it in 15 minutes.



That's pretty much what I had to do since I have Enterprise. You can only download 8.1 from the Store if you have the vanilla 8 or 8 Pro. 

I had to download the 8.1 Enterprise ISO from MSDN, and then burn it to a DVD, and install it from inside 8. It was kind of annoying but it installed quickly.

How are you finding 8.1 then? Stuff in Britain is a rip-off too compared to US prices.

I think 8.1 is more than just a service pack. It is virtually a new operating system, or much more so than 7 SP1 was. This could explain why people have been having problems upgrading.


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## DMGrier

If you do not mind me asking what are you guys having to pay over there?


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## DMGrier

Figured I would just share that over at Windows Eight forums in the news room they post Windows 8.0 will no longer receive critical update in 2015.

http://support.microsoft.com/lifecy...?sort=PN&qid=&alpha=Windows+8&Filter=FilterNO



> Windows 8.1 will remain under the same lifecycle policy as Windows 8 with support ending 1/10/2023. Windows 8 customers will have 24 months to move to Windows 8.1 after the General Availability of the Windows 8.1 update in order to remain supported. See the Windows 8.1 FAQ for more information.


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## spirit

DMGrier said:


> If you do not mind me asking what are you guys having to pay over there?



Here in the UK:

Windows 8.1 Pro (Retail) on Amazon.com - $167 http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Win...F8&qid=1383496442&sr=8-4&keywords=windows+8.1

Windows 8.1 Pro (Retail) on Amazon.co.uk - £182 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-F...id=1383496493&sr=8-1&keywords=windows+8.1+pro

$167 = ~£104
£182 = ~$291

Obviously it's more expensive over here. Probably because of shipping it over here and VAT and whatnot.

And I suspect the support lifecycle is a bit like the service pack support lifecycles. Windows 7 RTM isn't supported anymore, or if it is, support isn't long to this world. But, Windows 7 SP1 is still going to be supported until 2020 I believe.

Looks like mainstream support for 8(.1) ends on January 9th 2018 and extended support for 8(.1) ends on January 10th 2023, so 8.1 is good to go for another 9 and a bit years.


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