# Microsoft Bans Xbox Live Players



## Machin3 (Nov 12, 2009)

I found this article today on Yahoo and it talks about how 600,000 accounts were banned because of illegal modifications. 

http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/plugged-in/wave-of-bans-hits-xbox-live/1372276



> "All consumers should know that piracy is illegal, and that modifying their Xbox 360 console to play pirated discs, violates the Xbox LIVE terms of use, will void their warranty and result in a ban from Xbox Live," Microsoft said in a statement today.


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## Stoic Sentinel (Nov 12, 2009)

Midnight_fox1 said:


> I found this article today on Yahoo and it talks about how 600,000 accounts were banned because of illegal modifications.
> 
> http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/plugged-in/wave-of-bans-hits-xbox-live/1372276



Whoa, but I guess that's why you DON'T PIRATE SOFTWARE... *sigh*


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## Machin3 (Nov 12, 2009)

Stoic Sentinel said:


> Whoa, but I guess that's why you DON'T PIRATE SOFTWARE... *sigh*



Yea. I used to do it in the past for PC and then I noticed that its pointless so I started buying full copies of games. Makes me fell good about myself that I changed.


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## Stoic Sentinel (Nov 12, 2009)

Midnight_fox1 said:


> Yea. I used to do it in the past for PC and then I noticed that its pointless so I started buying full copies of games. Makes me fell good about myself that I changed.



Lol, we all make mistakes


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## JlCollins005 (Nov 12, 2009)

old news been doing bans for sometime to bad for them the people that enable the mods to be done our smarter than them lol


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## Stoic Sentinel (Nov 12, 2009)

JlCollins005 said:


> old news been doing bans for sometime to bad for them the people that enable the mods to be done our smarter than them lol



But isn't this the first "mass-banning" Micro$oft has performed?


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## Machin3 (Nov 12, 2009)

Stoic Sentinel said:


> But isn't this the first "mass-banning" Micro$oft has performed?



You know, if I'm not mistaken, I think that they did one for Halo also. It was for Halo 3 I think and Microsoft started to ban people because they got copies of it earlier.


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## ProxyRepair (Nov 12, 2009)

The gamertags were not banned only consoles. They started being able to detect the before undetectable iExtreme firmware. I personally had 4 banned. Good thing I had warranties on all them  Also new iExtreme lite firmware comes soon hopefully 



> [c4eva] new fw in dev/test - ixtreme LT (Lite Touch) - more efficient , minimal patching , all aspects of fw indistinguisable from orig, no more bans, No ETA!


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## G25r8cer (Nov 12, 2009)

It's about time Microsoft started doing this but, its pointless

There is going to be another hack/firmware to get around this

Hackers are always going to be ahead, unfortunatly


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## JlCollins005 (Nov 12, 2009)

G25r8cer said:


> It's about time Microsoft started doing this but, its pointless
> 
> There is going to be another hack/firmware to get around this
> 
> Hackers are always going to be ahead, unfortunatly



exactly, MS is wasting there time, ms thought they could hide how they were detecting but the sad thing is the hackers are just to smart and figured it out and basically from what i have been told this is possibly gunna put a stop to them detecting it the way they are without inspecting every console individually


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## Shane (Nov 12, 2009)

I can just immagine how many people have actualy had their systems banned for no reason without even modding their systems.

afterall this is microsoft were talking about.

Next time....buy a PS3


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## awildgoose (Nov 12, 2009)

If you don't play online (which is the point of 360 I guess) you won't get caught?

Go PC/ps3!!


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## G25r8cer (Nov 12, 2009)

If its not connected to the internet you wont get caught/banned

I believe they find out when you run system updates


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## awildgoose (Nov 12, 2009)

G25r8cer said:


> If its not connected to the internet you wont get caught/banned
> 
> I believe they find out when you run system updates



But you can't run a system update when you're not on the net though?
I don't have a 360 so yea just wondering...


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## Aastii (Nov 12, 2009)

HA! Serves em right. Unfortunate for the banned ones, but in the greater scheme of things it is good I suppose.

And goose, if you aren't on the net you won't get caught, but it doesn't matter, if you take your system off the internet so it doesn't get caught it is the same as having the ban anyway and if you do connect then it will get banned straight away, it is a lose lose situation


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## massahwahl (Nov 12, 2009)

So maybe dumb question... But if I switched my 360 cases would that constitute as an illegal mod? I've been looking at possibly doing this but sounds a little iffy now. 

And go msoft for cracking down on these a-holes!


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## Aastii (Nov 12, 2009)

ukulele_ninja said:


> So maybe dumb question... But if I switched my 360 cases would that constitute as an illegal mod? I've been looking at possibly doing this but sounds a little iffy now.
> 
> And go msoft for cracking down on these a-holes!



no, you can't play illegal games with a different case, and microsoft can't detect what colour plastic is surrounding their hardware.

Hell, they even sell different cases, they can hardle then say to people that bought them that bceause they bought them there accounts will be banned. I think you would be safe to use a new case :good:


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## Grindon (Nov 12, 2009)

How are they doing this? I always believed console discs were near impossible to copy, take the ps3 disc with the ring near the centre of the disc, it reads playstation 3 in shiny silver. Is this not its security so people can just copy games for the fun of it.

Now I dont know if Xbox 360 have this on their disc (they probably do), but you would have to be remarkably clever to get around that surely. 

Sorry if this sounds stupid, it just blows my mind how people are clever enough to get around such a system.


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## Aastii (Nov 12, 2009)

Grindon said:


> How are they doing this? I always believed console discs were near impossible to copy, take the ps3 disc with the ring near the centre of the disc, it reads playstation 3 in shiny silver. Is this not its security so people can just copy games for the fun of it.
> 
> Now I dont know if Xbox 360 have this on their disc (they probably do), but you would have to be remarkably clever to get around that surely.
> 
> Sorry if this sounds stupid, it just blows my mind how people are clever enough to get around such a system.



the discs are checked on xbox consoles, but it is by the drive itself. You can buy other xbox drives that bypass this feature, so you can use any disc


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## Grindon (Nov 12, 2009)

Aastii said:


> the discs are checked on xbox consoles, but it is by the drive itself. You can buy other xbox drives that bypass this feature, so you can use any disc



Ahh, I understand, still though pretty clever - just shows the extent in which people are willing to go to screw MS. 

Anyone reckon this will happen to the Ps3 eventually or does the ps3 have other security checks? (I'm guessing not)


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## tlarkin (Nov 12, 2009)

I am pretty sure it is done by checking the firmware, probably by a checksum or md5 dump comparison.  If you modify the firmware the comparisons will not produce equal results.

This can be accomplished by the most basic of programming and it's margin of error is probably very low.  

Steam did the same thing when HL2 came out, they banned over 60,000 accounts the first weekend that were using pirated software.  I also think they should permanently ban cheaters/hackers as well.

I have no sympathy for those people who want to steal.  I don't hold anything moral over them either.  I could care less if you steal from Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo or whatever developer you are stealing from, but if you get caught well I mean you were stealing.  So, if you don't want to suffer the consequences then legally buy your stuff.  If you want to pirate and steal and if you get caught, well that is the price you pay.


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## djarvis1one (Nov 12, 2009)

My question on this article is if they ban Xbox modders from the live accounts, what's to stop them from banning PC gamers? That's what the whole "Games for Windows" branding was for wasn't it? Admittedly, I don't play PC games but I would hate to see Microsoft impart some new ridiculous mandates that would limit what type of system you could use to access their online gaming services.


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## chrisalv14 (Nov 12, 2009)

Weldone Microsoft!

Its actually about time they punished them little losing jerks who cheat and ruin the game when everyone is also playing!. 

I too read this and was happy enough to see they banned them. Now at last people will be tought  lesson for being a loser and for cheating all the time.


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## Droogie (Nov 12, 2009)

Aastii said:


> the discs are checked on xbox consoles, but it is by the drive itself. You can buy other xbox drives that bypass this feature, so you can use any disc



you don't even need to buy anything (except for dual layer DVD's).  you can flash the old drive, and then use it to play burned games.  if you go online you have to "stealth" your games, so microsoft can't detect that you are using hacked firmware.


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## tlarkin (Nov 12, 2009)

djarvis1one said:


> My question on this article is if they ban Xbox modders from the live accounts, what's to stop them from banning PC gamers? That's what the whole "Games for Windows" branding was for wasn't it? Admittedly, I don't play PC games but I would hate to see Microsoft impart some new ridiculous mandates that would limit what type of system you could use to access their online gaming services.



Steam already does this.  Since Windows boxes have a large history of piracy, things like DRM come into play to help mitigate said piracy.

PCs have way too wide range of hardware to be able to tell what system is running what.  Since, the hack is a firmware hack, Xbox Live servers can read the exact version of the firmware and all the meta data that goes with it.

In the end it is MS's product and they can do with it whatever they want to.  They spent the time, money and effort to build their product and their company to what it is today.  They have a right to protect their large investment, just like any technology company does.  

I don't have any sympathy for those that want to steal games.  If you play video games you should support your interests and pay for it.  If you like music, go buy the CD and don't download it for free.  

If people didn't steal this wouldn't be an issue


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## Aastii (Nov 12, 2009)

I think the GFWL system is a joke. I mean, you can go and buy a cheap game and use that code on any other game and it is legit and working, opens it up to so many types of piracy and you can do it on and offline and they think it's legit!!


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## massahwahl (Nov 12, 2009)

Aastii said:


> no, you can't play illegal games with a different case, and microsoft can't detect what colour plastic is surrounding their hardware.
> 
> Hell, they even sell different cases, they can hardle then say to people that bought them that bceause they bought them there accounts will be banned. I think you would be safe to use a new case :good:



So if microsoft sells different cases, if you install one does it still void your warranty?


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## Rambo (Nov 12, 2009)

ukulele_ninja said:


> So if microsoft sells different cases, if you install one does it still void your warranty?



Can't you google it?


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## massahwahl (Nov 12, 2009)

Rambo said:


> Can't you google it?



I did...It didnt answer whether or not replacing one with a MICROSOFT case voids the warranty.


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## djarvis1one (Nov 12, 2009)

tlarkin said:


> Steam already does this.  Since Windows boxes have a large history of piracy, things like DRM come into play to help mitigate said piracy.
> 
> PCs have way too wide range of hardware to be able to tell what system is running what.  Since, the hack is a firmware hack, Xbox Live servers can read the exact version of the firmware and all the meta data that goes with it.
> 
> ...



I read this article on MSN today and the context of it made it sound like any mod would void your warranty and ban you from LIVE. I have read subsequent articles and they mention the firmware hack you stated. 

I agree wholeheartedly that if you pirate anything (code, music, large transatlantic freighters) you pay the piper and don't whine about it.

You have to think that Sony is going to be laughing all the way to the bank when all of these modded 360's end up in the pawn shops and stores are trying to keep the PS3's in stock.


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## tlarkin (Nov 12, 2009)

djarvis1one said:


> I read this article on MSN today and the context of it made it sound like any mod would void your warranty and ban you from LIVE. I have read subsequent articles and they mention the firmware hack you stated.
> 
> I agree wholeheartedly that if you pirate anything (code, music, large transatlantic freighters) you pay the piper and don't whine about it.
> 
> You have to think that Sony is going to be laughing all the way to the bank when all of these modded 360's end up in the pawn shops and stores are trying to keep the PS3's in stock.




I doubt that will happen.  I bet that either some Russian hacker will set up Xbox Live mirror servers for hacked xboxes, or people will just not use Xbox Live and keep on downloading games for free.  Then go buy a cheap Xbox Arcade or something else to play on Xbox Live.  

I doubt this will increase Sony's market share.  The only thing that can really increase their market share is dropping their prices on games and consoles, and it has already begun to drop in price.  I may end up buying one, the problem is, there aren't any really games for PS3 I am dying to play.  Maybe 2 or so games total and that can't justify the costs of a whole console for 2 games.  Plus I already have a 360 and a Wii, plus my PC.


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## djarvis1one (Nov 12, 2009)

tlarkin said:


> I doubt that will happen.  I bet that either some Russian hacker will set up Xbox Live mirror servers for hacked xboxes, or people will just not use Xbox Live and keep on downloading games for free.  Then go buy a cheap Xbox Arcade or something else to play on Xbox Live.
> 
> I doubt this will increase Sony's market share.  The only thing that can really increase their market share is dropping their prices on games and consoles, and it has already begun to drop in price.  I may end up buying one, the problem is, there aren't any really games for PS3 I am dying to play.  Maybe 2 or so games total and that can't justify the costs of a whole console for 2 games.  Plus I already have a 360 and a Wii, plus my PC.



I bought an 80 gig for my son for Christmas last year and have been extremely pleased. We had to pay $299.00 for it but considering a PlayStation and a blu ray player for that amount, couldn't pass it up. Plus I have read that you can install Linux (or some other OS) if you so choose.


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## Rambo (Nov 12, 2009)

ukulele_ninja said:


> I did...It didnt answer whether or not replacing one with a MICROSOFT case voids the warranty.



Opening the case voids the warranty. End of. I can't understand why Microsoft would sell different cases because as soon as you open your existing case you void your warranty.


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## tlarkin (Nov 12, 2009)

djarvis1one said:


> I bought an 80 gig for my son for Christmas last year and have been extremely pleased. We had to pay $299.00 for it but considering a PlayStation and a blu ray player for that amount, couldn't pass it up. Plus I have read that you can install Linux (or some other OS) if you so choose.



Yeah, but I don't even own a HD TV.  I don't have cable, haven't had cable TV in many years and refuse to pay for it.  So there is no reason for me to get a nice TV.  If I got a nice TV that was HD compliant then I would go get cable, and then I would be hooked to every HD nature channel in the world and never get anything done 

When I house/pet set for people I watch their cable then.  So, like twice a year I get to watch discovery HD all weekend long, and that is about as much as I need.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to go buy a new TV today, and I got pretty big credit lines with Newegg and Nebraska Furniture Mart, so I Could go pick up a nice TV today and not owe anything on it for 24 months, but that would just enable me to buy things like blu ray, and HD cable TV and other stuff I really just can't waste my money on.

Plus, blu ray drives for your PC are getting cheaper and cheaper.  If Sony had more exclusive games that I would love to play then I'd buy one.  However, I don't think Sony or the developers are even using 1/10th the potential of what the PS3 hardware can do.  So, why not just buy an Xbox?  It is more established, has more games, and has a better on line experience.  

One of these days though, I may break down again and sign up for digital cable TV, and that is when it will all go down hill and I will spend a bunch of money!


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## JlCollins005 (Nov 12, 2009)

Rambo said:


> Opening the case voids the warranty. End of. I can't understand why Microsoft would sell different cases because as soon as you open your existing case you void your warranty.



only voids the warranty if you break the seal


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## JlCollins005 (Nov 12, 2009)

G25r8cer said:


> If its not connected to the internet you wont get caught/banned
> 
> I believe they find out when you run system updates



your right to a certain extent, but lets say you flash your drive but dont play xbox live, then like 5 months from now you decide to get on xbl well the system logs everything even if your not on xbl, so you will prolly be banned,


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## Rambo (Nov 12, 2009)

JlCollins005 said:


> only voids the warranty if you break the seal



Surely the seal is designed to be broken when you open the case? 

(I wouldn't know as I am not a console gamer, PC's all the way!)


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## massahwahl (Nov 12, 2009)

I can't find any actual 'microsoft' cases so I think a previous poster was wrong in saying there was such a thing. Everything I've read says 'no seal, no warranty'. Pretty lame. For as pc savy as M$oft is you would think they would be a little more open to lettin people customize their systems.


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## Twist86 (Nov 12, 2009)

Just goes to show you its not only "pc gamers" that are pirates ^-^


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## G25r8cer (Nov 12, 2009)

JlCollins005 said:


> your right to a certain extent, but lets say you flash your drive but dont play xbox live, then like 5 months from now you decide to get on xbl well the system logs everything even if your not on xbl, so you will prolly be banned,



Correct but, if you never go on xbl then, you will be fine! 

To people who dont know: The firmware is loaded on the cd/dvd drive itself and not the xbox. When you connect to internet, xbl, or updates microsoft can see the logs.


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## djarvis1one (Nov 12, 2009)

ukulele_ninja said:


> I can't find any actual 'microsoft' cases so I think a previous poster was wrong in saying there was such a thing. Everything I've read says 'no seal, no warranty'. Pretty lame. For as pc savy as M$oft is you would think they would be a little more open to lettin people customize their systems.



Nah man... This is why they're as PC savvy as they are. You can't mod your system so when you want to upgrade, you have to buy the latest new model.


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## tlarkin (Nov 12, 2009)

G25r8cer said:


> Correct but, if you never go on xbl then, you will be fine!
> 
> To people who dont know: The firmware is loaded on the cd/dvd drive itself and not the xbox. When you connect to internet, xbl, or updates microsoft can see the logs.



I am fairly certain you NEED to flash the firmware on the system as every hack your xbox tutorial I have read says you can brick your system, and what it does is it flashes I believe the optical drive.  Since Xbox games are pressed a certain way it is hard to replicate that process when you burn them from your PC, which is why you flash the firmware of the optical drive to bypass what they put in place.

I know there are also software haxies and others that you run off a thumb drive, which do not alter your system.  However, they all run the risk of bricking your xbox, which is why I never hacked mine.  That and I bought mine when MS was handing out free 3 year warranties so I kept mine in factory condition.

Plus I don't mind paying for games and if I want something on xbox arcade I am sure I can get it online or play the browser version for free.


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## Aastii (Nov 12, 2009)

ukulele_ninja said:


> I can't find any actual 'microsoft' cases so I think a previous poster was wrong in saying there was such a thing. Everything I've read says 'no seal, no warranty'. Pretty lame. For as pc savy as M$oft is you would think they would be a little more open to lettin people customize their systems.



It was me who said it, and I didn't say it won't void your warranty, I said it won't get you banned. You haven't changed any hardware, just the stuff around the hardware, but ofcourse, once you take the original case off, which you have to do to put a new one on, you can't prove that you didn't do something to the hardware which could have caused something to happen to it, inadvertantly or on purpose, which is why the seal is there in the first place, so you can prove that you have never gone to the internals and possibly messed something up.

So long as it is just the case you change though, you won't get banned from XBL, you will lose your warranty, but your standing with Microsoft will be good still


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## G25r8cer (Nov 12, 2009)

tlarkin said:


> I am fairly certain you NEED to flash the firmware on the system as every hack your xbox tutorial I have read says you can brick your system, and what it does is it flashes I believe the optical drive.  Since Xbox games are pressed a certain way it is hard to replicate that process when you burn them from your PC, which is why you flash the firmware of the optical drive to bypass what they put in place.



Thats what I said

You have to flash the optical drive firmware to play burnt games. The only way microsoft can find out about this is if you connect to the internet or if you send it out for repairs. There are ways to get around this like flashing it back to the original firmware. And yes, you can brick your optical drive, NOT the system itself.


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## tlarkin (Nov 12, 2009)

G25r8cer said:


> Thats what I said
> 
> You have to flash the optical drive firmware to play burnt games. The only way microsoft can find out about this is if you connect to the internet or if you send it out for repairs. There are ways to get around this like flashing it back to the original firmware. And yes, you can brick your optical drive, NOT the system itself.



There are other methods of hacking your xbox out there, with the drive flashing I believe being the most popular.  

There are soft mod hacks that would register your system as being altered if it were online when running the hack.

I have no personal experience with any of them as I don't hack my consoles really.


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## Twist86 (Nov 12, 2009)

djarvis1one said:


> Nah man... This is why they're as PC savvy as they are. You can't mod your system so when you want to upgrade, you have to buy the latest new model.



Only if you play online. I have modded every console I own to play CD back ups of the games I buy.

I dunno how many times my PS2 has scratched Timesplitters and Summoner after buying them 4 times each I modded and now I giggle when it scratches vs being out $30+.


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## ScottALot (Nov 12, 2009)

In Halo 3, once every 4 weekends or so, there's a game called Grifball that you can play. Some people betray their teammates so much in so many games that so many people file complaints against them and about 500 kids are banned from Halo 3 then.


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## massahwahl (Nov 12, 2009)

Aastii said:


> It was me who said it, and I didn't say it won't void your warranty, I said it won't get you banned. You haven't changed any hardware, just the stuff around the hardware, but ofcourse, once you take the original case off, which you have to do to put a new one on, you can't prove that you didn't do something to the hardware which could have caused something to happen to it, inadvertantly or on purpose, which is why the seal is there in the first place, so you can prove that you have never gone to the internals and possibly messed something up.
> 
> So long as it is just the case you change though, you won't get banned from XBL, you will lose your warranty, but your standing with Microsoft will be good still



Sorry man I'm on my phone so I didn't want to sift through the whole thread again. I thought someone said you can buy 'official' xbox cases as in from microsoft to use. That's why I was confused as to why they would sell something that would void your warranty (which case replacing does) 

So I guess ill be waiting until mine is out of warranty.


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## tlarkin (Nov 12, 2009)

ScottALot said:


> In Halo 3, once every 4 weekends or so, there's a game called Grifball that you can play. Some people betray their teammates so much in so many games that so many people file complaints against them and about 500 kids are banned from Halo 3 then.



My solution is simple, don't play Halo 3.  I can barely stand counter strike with all the kids yelling on the mic.  I have to mute half my team or turn off voice communications all together sometimes.

I tried Halo a few times and man, it drove me nuts.  I heard a kid fight with his parents about playing games past his bed time, and it was 9PM, so this kid had to be young.  I figured he was at least 12 to 14 if his parents were letting him play games like that.

Totally reminded me of that chocolate milk video on youtube of that kid crying to his mom about how he wanted a glass of chocolate milk.  I'd have beaten that kid if he talked to his mother that way and if I was the father.  Then taken that xbox away and made him earn it back.  That would not have flown in my house growing up.


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## massahwahl (Nov 12, 2009)

tlarkin said:


> My solution is simple, don't play Halo 3.  I can barely stand counter strike with all the kids yelling on the mic.  I have to mute half my team or turn off voice communications all together sometimes.
> 
> I tried Halo a few times and man, it drove me nuts.  I heard a kid fight with his parents about playing games past his bed time, and it was 9PM, so this kid had to be young.  I figured he was at least 12 to 14 if his parents were letting him play games like that.
> 
> Totally reminded me of that chocolate milk video on youtube of that kid crying to his mom about how he wanted a glass of chocolate milk.  I'd have beaten that kid if he talked to his mother that way and if I was the father.  Then taken that xbox away and made him earn it back.  That would not have flown in my house growing up.



I noticed a lot of very young very annoying kids playing CoD4 too. Some of these kids were using language that put me to shame! My mother would have beat me senseless if I had said things like these kids do! Its not just young ones though, there are plenty of adults who don't act like they have a lick of sense either.


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## tlarkin (Nov 12, 2009)

ukulele_ninja said:


> I noticed a lot of very young very annoying kids playing CoD4 too. Some of these kids were using language that put me to shame! My mother would have beat me senseless if I had said things like these kids do! Its not just young ones though, there are plenty of adults who don't act like they have a lick of sense either.



yeah there is this one dude online who plays on the same gun game server as I do, and he is around my age or older and I have to mute him constantly.  He always corrects whatever anyone says and gives you the right answer, and then brags about how he is a manager for boeing and makes lots of money.  Congrats man, you made it to middle management, here is your cookie now STFU and stop base camping!


I joined a L4D steam group called smart people with mics.  If you don't have a mic I kick you, and if you are an idiot and annoying I kick you.  However, that doesn't mean you gotta be serious, gaming is fun and I like to joke around but there is a fine line you can cross.


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## Justin (Nov 13, 2009)

over here in the philippines where piracy is dominant, the majority of people here have modded 360's and PS2's as people here in flea markets sell pirated CD's of these games. they also have Wii, PC, and the old Xbox games. over here, there still aren't any pirated PS3 games so I guess no one has managed to mod the PS3 itself to run pirated blu-ray games. 

there's a stereotype sort of thing here. if you got a modded ps2, you're an average joe. if you got a modded 360, pretty rich since you were able to buy a next gen console. and if you got a ps3, you're rich since you have a next gen console and can afford to buy games for it. lol


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## tlarkin (Nov 13, 2009)

jnskyliner34 said:


> over here in the philippines where piracy is dominant, the majority of people here have modded 360's and PS2's as people here in flea markets sell pirated CD's of these games. they also have Wii, PC, and the old Xbox games. over here, there still aren't any pirated PS3 games so I guess no one has managed to mod the PS3 itself to run pirated blu-ray games.
> 
> there's a stereotype sort of thing here. if you got a modded ps2, you're an average joe. if you got a modded 360, pretty rich since you were able to buy a next gen console. and if you got a ps3, you're rich since you have a next gen console and can afford to buy games for it. lol



It is not all that different in the USA.   There is a reason the Wii out sells everyone and it is mainly because it is the most affordable.


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## Laquer Head (Nov 13, 2009)

tlarkin said:


> It is not all that different in the USA.   There is a reason the Wii out sells everyone and it is mainly because it is the most affordable.



There is that...but also, not that I hate the WII but it is kinda gimmicky..


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## Droogie (Nov 13, 2009)

tlarkin said:


> It is not all that different in the USA.   There is a reason the Wii out sells everyone and it is mainly because it is the most affordable.



and it's incredibly mainstream as well.


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## Archangel (Nov 13, 2009)

tlarkin said:


> There are other methods of hacking your xbox out there



yes, using an axe for example.   altough, I'm pretty sure the warranty is voided then.


Anyways, I agree. my gues would be that its a checksum check they did on the xbox's, so I dont think people who havn't had their xboxes flashed would be banned now.




Droogie said:


> and it's incredibly mainstream as well.



Dont tell me you hate something just because its mainstream.


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## JlCollins005 (Nov 13, 2009)

tlarkin said:


> I am fairly certain you NEED to flash the firmware on the system as every hack your xbox tutorial I have read says you can brick your system, and what it does is it flashes I believe the optical drive.  Since Xbox games are pressed a certain way it is hard to replicate that process when you burn them from your PC, which is why you flash the firmware of the optical drive to bypass what they put in place.
> 
> I know there are also software haxies and others that you run off a thumb drive, which do not alter your system.  However, they all run the risk of bricking your xbox, which is why I never hacked mine.  That and I bought mine when MS was handing out free 3 year warranties so I kept mine in factory condition.
> 
> Plus I don't mind paying for games and if I want something on xbox arcade I am sure I can get it online or play the browser version for free.



The firmware hack is the only way to do hack the 360, there are no other usb devices or what not that will allow you to do so, and for the bricking you will only achieve this if you dont save the original drive key since you need it for the firmware flash


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## tlarkin (Nov 13, 2009)

JlCollins005 said:


> The firmware hack is the only way to do hack the 360, there are no other usb devices or what not that will allow you to do so, and for the bricking you will only achieve this if you dont save the original drive key since you need it for the firmware flash



I may be confusing the soft hack with the original xbox, but I know they do exist.  Regardless though, this isn't a how to mod your xbox forum nor do these forums encourage or support such things as it is considering hacking and quite possibly illegal.


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## tlarkin (Nov 13, 2009)

Droogie said:


> and it's incredibly mainstream as well.



It is just marketed at a different demographic.  Only a percentage of people play video games and of that percentage only some of them are really into it.  While other gamers are way more casual.  The Wii markets itself to the casual gamer, and that is why it is so popular.

I know people who hate video games but have a Wii, see where I am going with this?

Also, I think that certain games make the Wii worth owning.  Mariokart, Zelda, Metroid, the Mario platformers.  All those games are great and that is why I own a Wii for the most part.

I'll admit some games are lacking in many features, but other games are perfect for the Wii.


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## Feuerfrei.x (Nov 13, 2009)

lol my brothers one of the people who got banned -- he was screaming AND SHOUTING AT IT, my dad shouted at him, my step mum was just silent



And i just laughed 

serves him rite!!!


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## Droogie (Nov 13, 2009)

Archangel said:


> Dont tell me you hate something just because its mainstream.



no no, i was just adding to what tlarkin said about it.  i sold mine just because i didn't use it.  i'd classify myself as more of a competitive gamer, the wii's online system is a joke, and there are few games that interest me.


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## Aastii (Nov 13, 2009)

I have a Wii, I got it the day they came out and have used it for maybe 48 hours in total over that time, I haven't used it in around 2 or 3 months  I could ebay it as brand new and nobody would know the difference...I may do just that actually, make a couple hundred quid off of it


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## Droogie (Nov 13, 2009)

^ they aren't selling for much. at least not in the states anyway.  nobody is willing to give you much unless you have wii fit.

may be more in demand in the UK though.


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## Aastii (Nov 13, 2009)

Well I have wii fit, with balance board, and rock band (got it before i got my xbox) with all instruments and that, and a few other games, and 2 controllers, and hdmi cable, so it may go for a bit, got more than most on ebay have that is for sure.

Just checked ebay now and if i were to sell it as a bundle, it would go for around £300, so that is actually very very good, I could get a PS3 for that, or better yet, upgrade my system a bit, or better yet, put it towards driving lessons/driving stuff (ie, car, insurance, tax, etc)


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## JlCollins005 (Nov 13, 2009)

tlarkin said:


> I may be confusing the soft hack with the original xbox, but I know they do exist.  Regardless though, this isn't a how to mod your xbox forum nor do these forums encourage or support such things as it is considering hacking and quite possibly illegal.



yea i know, the original xbox could be done by simply by inserting a certain game and having the right game save thats it.

It is not illegal to modify your system as it is yours, it is illegal to obtain or play games that are not retail copies


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## tlarkin (Nov 13, 2009)

JlCollins005 said:


> yea i know, the original xbox could be done by simply by inserting a certain game and having the right game save thats it.
> 
> It is not illegal to modify your system as it is yours, it is illegal to obtain or play games that are not retail copies



Copy right and intellectual property laws clearly protect your product from being modified for outside it's intended use.  However, those laws don't always hold up in court and the court costs to enforce them would be tremendous.

So, technically, we are both right.


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## massahwahl (Nov 13, 2009)

JlCollins005 said:


> It is not illegal to modify your system as it is yours, it is illegal to obtain or play games that are not retail copies



How is it not illegal? If it was legal how could microsoft ban your account considering they can't PROVE you were playing pirated games?

Guns are legal but that doesn't mean its legal to kill someone with it :/


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## JlCollins005 (Nov 14, 2009)

well they can ban your account because the only reason to have a modified firmware is to play burned games.


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## Aastii (Nov 14, 2009)

ukulele_ninja said:


> How is it not illegal? If it was legal how could microsoft ban your account considering they can't PROVE you were playing pirated games?
> 
> Guns are legal but that doesn't mean its legal to kill someone with it :/





JlCollins005 said:


> well they can ban your account because the only reason to have a modified firmware is to play burned games.



Having the games are illegal yes, they can take you to court for that one, but the reason people got banned from XBL for it is because to mod your console in a way that makes it have different hardware or able to play modded games is against the EULA, so they are totally within their rights to ban these idiots and it serves them right for trying to pirate games


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## JlCollins005 (Nov 14, 2009)

yes, i guess you are right but look at how many xbox's were banned. MS can ban like i said but the people that make the mods are a step ahead of them. Also, maybe less people would pirate the games if they didnt have to pay 60 dollars a game on top of 40 a year to play the game online. with the economy how it is i doubt you will see a cutback in pirating


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## Aastii (Nov 14, 2009)

JlCollins005 said:


> yes, i guess you are right but look at how many xbox's were banned. MS can ban like i said but the people that make the mods are a step ahead of them. Also, maybe less people would pirate the games if they didnt have to pay 60 dollars a game on top of 40 a year to play the game online. with the economy how it is i doubt you will see a cutback in pirating



I know, an extra $3 a month to go online, how anyone can afford that in the current climate is beyond me


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## JlCollins005 (Nov 15, 2009)

haha alright smarty im just saying with the economy how it is 60 bucks a game and everything, i think if they cut the cost of the games more people would buy them same for pc


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## Aastii (Nov 15, 2009)

JlCollins005 said:


> haha alright smarty im just saying with the economy how it is 60 bucks a game and everything, i think if they cut the cost of the games more people would buy them same for pc



Have you seen the prices of PC games now on steam. idk if it is the same over in US, but in UK about half of all new games are £5 to £10 more expensive than a normal game, evn with the preorder discount


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## Shane (Nov 15, 2009)

Aastii said:


> Have you seen the prices of PC games now on steam. idk if it is the same over in US, but in UK about half of all new games are £5 to £10 more expensive than a normal game, evn with the preorder discount



Steam have some wicked week end deals though...crysis + crysis warhead + wars for £19.99


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## Aastii (Nov 15, 2009)

Nevakonaza said:


> Steam have some wicked week end deals though...crysis + crysis warhead + wars for £19.99



oh yea they are sweet, but when will the decent games be on for good prices? Very rarely do deals come around that make you go "omg that is awesome"

The last one I actually got because I wanted it was CoD:WaW, and that was what, 4 or 5 months ago


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## JlCollins005 (Nov 15, 2009)

thats what im saying if they cut the cost maybe it would cut down on pirating


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## Aastii (Nov 15, 2009)

JlCollins005 said:


> thats what im saying if they cut the cost maybe it would cut down on pirating



I agree, but I think it would cut it much less than you might think, if people see something for free and the same thing payed for, it is obvious which they will go for, there will still be the people that will take the moral low ground and not think of consequences for themselves, the industry and everyone else.


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## linkin (Nov 15, 2009)

have you seen the price of modern warefare 2 on steam? $89.99 AU - no wonder no one i know owns it apart from you guys here on CF.


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## Aastii (Nov 15, 2009)

linkin93 said:


> have you seen the price of modern warefare 2 on steam? $89.99 AU - no wonder no one i know owns it apart from you guys here on CF.



Yea you drew the short straw, seems someone at IW cocked up their currency conversions...add that to the long list of other things they have messed up with this release


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## awildgoose (Nov 15, 2009)

linkin93 said:


> have you seen the price of modern warefare 2 on steam? $89.99 AU - no wonder no one i know owns it apart from you guys here on CF.



No no no, all prices on steam are in US... yes I found that out the hard way (not with MW2 though).
A lot of pirated games can't go online anyway (well with PC at least) so basically anyone who wants to go online to play others needs to buy the game properly anyway and there are a lot of people who do want to go online so yea...


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