# AMD's Zen Vs Intel's i7 Kaby Lake



## Arc

I think I will chose AMD or Intel based on the motherboard as opposed to the CPU. Anyone else feel that way?


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## StrangleHold

I'll tell you when Zen is released.


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## Geoff

Arc said:


> I think I will chose AMD or Intel based on the motherboard as opposed to the CPU. Anyone else feel that way?


I didn't watch the video, but why would you choose it based on the motherboard?  Both will have pretty much the latest features.


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## Arc

Geoff said:


> I didn't watch the video, but why would you choose it based on the motherboard?  Both will have pretty much the latest features.



Intel has way to many chipsets and only the expensive ones will have Thunderbolt 3 and Optane. Intel needs to do away with having 8 different chipsets for the consumer MOBOs. Also I don't really trust Intel's enthusiast edition CPUs.


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## mistersprinkles

I don't trust enthusiast CPUs from Intel either, what with all the murders they've been responsible in the past couple of years. One of them escaped from prison recently and has killed again! I think it was Jimmy "The Leggs" Johnson, a 5820K. They're bad apples I tell you. They come from the bad side of the fab.


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## beers

I think overall system cost will be the big one.  8c/16t Zen at $350 with preliminary benchmarks sounds like a great value


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## Arc

mistersprinkles said:


> I don't trust enthusiast CPUs from Intel either, what with all the murders they've been responsible in the past couple of years. One of them escaped from prison recently and has killed again! I think it was Jimmy "The Leggs" Johnson, a 5820K. They're bad apples I tell you. They come from the bad side of the fab.



The enthusiast CPUs don't necessarily perform better than the consumer CPUs. In fact they can perform worse.  The MOBOs are more expensive and the consumer platform received Thunderbolt 2 and Thunderbolt 3 before the enthusiast MOBOs. Intel is doing it backwards in my opinion.  I say get rid of the LGA 1151 and stick with the 2011. No need for two platforms. The video explains this.


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## Arc

Geoff said:


> I didn't watch the video, but why would you choose it based on the motherboard?  Both will have pretty much the latest features.



With Intel the consumer MOBOs got Thunderbolt 2 and Thunderbolt 3 before the enthusiast MOBOs. Plus with Intel you have 9 different chipset. That is f'ed up. I think the MOBO options might help decide if I go Intel or AMD in 2017. I am sure by December 2018 eight core CPUs will be the norm. Competition is good :  )


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## Intel_man

Arc said:


> Intel needs to do away with having 8 different chipsets for the consumer MOBOs.


They have 3. H110, H170, and Z170. The B150, Q150, and Q170 are business/corporate orientated. Not really targeted for "consumers". With the kaby lake launch, they are introducing H270 and Z270 to support additional PCI-E lanes as their main difference. Then of course there's the business fleet of chipsets too, the B250, Q250, and Q270. 


Arc said:


> In fact they can perform worse.


That can go both ways depending on what you're basing their performance on.


Arc said:


> The MOBOs are more expensive and the consumer platform received Thunderbolt 2 and Thunderbolt 3 before the enthusiast MOBOs.


Thunderbolt 3 came out after the X99 was released/announced. So not having native support is understandable. X99 cost more because it offers more. 


Arc said:


> Intel is doing it backwards in my opinion.


No.


Arc said:


> I say get rid of the LGA 1151 and stick with the 2011.


So... you complain about the LGA2011 for too expensive, but you want to get rid of the more budget friendly socket? Getting rid of one doesn't make the other cheaper.


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## Arc

Intel_man said:


> They have 3. H110, H170, and Z170. The B150, Q150, and Q170 are business/corporate orientated. Not really targeted for "consumers". With the kaby lake launch, they are introducing H270 and Z270 to support additional PCI-E lanes as their main difference. Then of course there's the business fleet of chipsets too, the B250, Q250, and Q270.
> 
> That can go both ways depending on what you're basing their performance on.
> 
> Thunderbolt 3 came out after the X99 was released/announced. So not having native support is understandable. X99 cost more because it offers more.
> 
> No.
> 
> So... you complain about the LGA2011 for too expensive, but you want to get rid of the more budget friendly socket? Getting rid of one doesn't make the other cheaper.


Had you bother to watch the video they could simply make an inexpensive chipset and a highend chipset for the LGA 2011 and eliminate the LGA 1151. Having two different platforms came about less than 10 years ago. There is no need for it.


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## Intel_man

I can tell you're not good at doing business.


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## Arc

Intel_man said:


> I can tell you're not good at doing business.



As I stated earlier. Intel just recently (about 8 years ago) started offering a consumer and enthusiast platform for desktops. Intel will make more money but it does not benefit the customer. They used to have the same LGA platform with high-end and low-end chipsets available. There was no need to change other than make more money. I also don't see the need for 10,12,18,24 core CPUS. I think AMD is going 4,8,16,32 Core. In then end if you like Intel's paradigm stick with it. I will see what AMD does and keep my options open.


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## Darren

Arc said:


> Intel will make more money but it does not benefit the customer. They used to have the same LGA platform with high-end and low-end chipsets available. There was no need to change other than make more money.



I think you're a little too focused on the pure tech specs and not the business behind this. Having separate platforms for professionals/businesses and consumers makes a lot of sense for numerous reasons. Intel has had pretty crap competition and naturally we've seen their prices climb as they dominate the market. Can't really blame Intel for making superior products and profiting off it, they are a business after all.


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## Arc

Darren said:


> I think you're a little too focused on the pure tech specs and not the business behind this. Having separate platforms for professionals/businesses and consumers makes a lot of sense for numerous reasons. Intel has had pretty crap competition and naturally we've seen their prices climb as they dominate the market. Can't really blame Intel for making superior products and profiting off it, they are a business after all.



That is my point dude. Intel could do what they wanted because of lack of competition from AMD. That is why Intel has so many bat shit crazy chipsets. With the new Zen series I think Intel will have to follow suit. I don't think it is wise to have the H series, the B series, the Z series the X series and all the other crap load of chipsets and on top of that LGA 2011 and 1151. They way Intel was going for the last eight years was good for Intel. No one said other wise. I am saying AMD's Zen series should make things interesting. I will probably opt for AMD or Intel based based on who has the better paradigm but you can do what you want.


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## Darren

Arc said:


> That is my point dude. Intel could do what they wanted because of lack of competition from AMD. That is why Intel has so many bat shit crazy chipsets. With the new Zen series I think Intel will have to follow suit. I don't think it is wise to have the H series, the B series, the Z series the X series and all the other crap load of chipsets and on top of that LGA 2011 and 1151. They way Intel was going for the last eight years was good for Intel. No one said other wise. I am saying AMD's Zen series should make things interesting. I will probably opt for AMD or Intel based based on who has the better paradigm but you can do what you want.


Gotcha, I jumped in this thread late so might have misinterpreted you initially. Also ask anyone here, I'm a big AMD fan and am really excited for Zen. If it performs as anticipated then I'll definitely be dropping some cash on a platform upgrade. I really like them as a company, but their CPU's have sucked for a while comparatively.


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## Arc

I think the AMD Zen series will finally make 8 core and 16 core CPUs mainstream. After Intel released the Core 2 Quad in 2006 I and many others thought by 2012 we would have 16 core CPUs for $600.00 but without competition the prices don't drop.


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## Darren

Arc said:


> I think the AMD Zen series will finally make 8 core and 16 core CPUs mainstream. After Intel released the Core 2 Quad in 2006 I and many others thought by 2012 we would have 16 core CPUs for $600.00 but without competition the prices don't drop.


I'd like to think so but the 8xxx processors didn't really do that at all when they first came out.  Only just now starting to frequently use all 8 cores on my 8320, and that's mainly a result of consoles moving towards more cores.


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## beers




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## Darren

This went about like every other AMD/Intel discussion on the internet.


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## spirit

Personally I'd choose based on priceerformance, not necessarily which one has the absolute greatest chipset or who has the most motherboard features. Seems odd disregarding one whole company due to a chipset being slightly worse - I could understand it if there was a major difference, like one not working with DDR4 or something like that, but for the small things? Nah.


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## Arc

spirit said:


> Personally I'd choose based on priceerformance, not necessarily which one has the absolute greatest chipset or who has the most motherboard features. Seems odd disregarding one whole company due to a chipset being slightly worse - I could understand it if there was a major difference, like one not working with DDR4 or something like that, but for the small things? Nah.



It is not just the chipset. There are two desktop platforms from Intel. I don't see the need for the LGA 2011 and the LGA 1151. I can see the needs for LGA 2011 and two or three chipsets but not eight or nine. Intel never did that before. I hope AMD doesn't do the same thing.


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## beers

Arc said:


> I don't see the need for the LGA 2011 and the LGA 1151


Then don't buy one.  The substantially lower cost of 1151 boards makes a more compelling 'consumerist' value offering.


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## Arc

beers said:


> Then don't buy one.  The substantially lower cost of 1151 boards makes a more compelling 'consumerist' value offering.



I hear ya but keep in mind with the Core 2 Quad they had the X38 chipset that was kind of for high-end motherboards and they also had the G 31 chipset for motherboards under $100.00 in fact some were less than $50.00. They didn't have two CPU platforms. That is my only point. Everyone would have to agree in the past they had inexpensive motherboards and hi-end motherboards but they did not have two LGA platforms. The didn't have a separate LGA  for the average consumer and seperate LGA for enthusiast. They didn't release higher-end CPUs two years after the the average consumer CPU. Like I stated the consumer motherboards get some of the fancy features before the enthusiast motherboards. I find that odd as do many others. You folks might like that Intel has two LGA platforms but you would have to admit it is not needed. They never did it for the Pentium 2,3,4 or the Core 2 architecture but they still had $85.00 motherboards and $385.00 motherboards. They only reason I think it started with the Core i7 architecture is because the i7 on the 1156 LGA had the PCIE lanes on the CPU while the LGA 1366 did not. We could see the separation of LGA 1366 and LGA 1156 but as of now they could just use the LGA 2011 platform.


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## Calin

I'm personally waiting for Ryzen aka Zen, I would love to go back to AMD. If it turns out to suck I will wait for Skylake X (X99 successor)


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## Laquer Head

Calin said:


> I'm personally waiting for Ryzen aka Zen, I would love to go back to AMD. If it turns out to suck I will wait for Skylake X (X99 successor)


You have the rig you have in your sig and your legit thinking of going to an AMD machine!!??? WHY


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## Calin

Laquer Head said:


> You have the rig you have in your sig and your legit thinking of going to an AMD machine!!??? WHY


Because why not? I've been an AMD fan for a long time and I would be very happy if Ryzen beats my 6700k by a large margin.


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## Laquer Head

Calin said:


> Because why not? I've been an AMD fan for a long time and I would be very happy if Ryzen beats my 6700k by a large margin.


For the same reason we scoff at most of the stuff you say. You have zero concept of what it's like to work and save for something and many people would kill for the rig that you have, but one more time you make a post about 'upgrading' and 'why not' when you know its mommy and daddy paying for your toys.

You should be ashamed to come on here and talk the way you do to adults that actually have to work for their things and have an actual idea of what the real world is.

Sorry man, but spoiled children like you and your generation are a large part of what wrong with society and the me-first, everyone owes me mentality. It's disgusting really and shame on your family for promoting and supporting this behavior.


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## beers

Calin said:


> would be very happy if Ryzen beats my 6700k by a large margin.


Just get a 6950x and be done with it


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## Calin

Laquer Head said:


> For the same reason we scoff at most of the stuff you say. You have zero concept of what it's like to work and save for something and many people would kill for the rig that you have, but one more time you make a post about 'upgrading' and 'why not' when you know its mommy and daddy paying for your toys.
> 
> You should be ashamed to come on here and talk the way you do to adults that actually have to work for their things and have an actual idea of what the real world is.
> 
> Sorry man, but spoiled children like you and your generation are a large part of what wrong with society and the me-first, everyone owes me mentality. It's disgusting really and shame on your family for promoting and supporting this behavior.


A lot of people tell me this, not only on this forum. I understand that you have to work for your things but what do you expect me to do? Give up on my rig?



beers said:


> Just get a 6950x and be done with it


That's 1700$ only for the CPU. I doubt that the highest end Ryzen chip + a board would be over 800-900$


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## Laquer Head

Calin said:


> A lot of people tell me this, not only on this forum. I understand that you have to work for your things but what do you expect me to do? Give up on my rig?
> 
> 
> That's 1700$ only for the CPU. I doubt that the highest end Ryzen chip + a board would be over 800-900$


I don't personally expect anything of you, but if other people are telling you the same thing perhaps you should take in some of the comments and stop coming off like an entitled brat.

The world doesn't revolve around your gaming computer. Go outside with friends, get active, join a ball team - anything. Based on some of your posts you are in dire need of a social life and exposure to some people that will get you motivated to do more with your young life than playing games, being alone, and being unhealthy.

I'm not saying this to be a prick man, but look how you come across to people - and clearly not just on this forum.


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## Calin

Laquer Head said:


> I don't personally expect anything of you, but if other people are telling you the same thing perhaps you should take in some of the comments and stop coming off like an entitled brat.
> 
> The world doesn't revolve around your gaming computer. Go outside with friends, get active, join a ball team - anything. Based on some of your posts you are in dire need of a social life and exposure to some people that will get you motivated to do more with your young life than playing games, being alone, and being unhealthy.
> 
> I'm not saying this to be a prick man, but look how you come across to people - and clearly not just on this forum.


Yes, the world clearly doesn't revolve around my PC, but for me my PC is one of the most important things in my life. I do have real life friends, just not as many as other people do.


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## Laquer Head

Calin said:


> Yes, the world clearly doesn't revolve around my PC, but for me my PC is one of the most important things in my life. I do have real life friends, just not as many as other people do.


Having many friends means absolute shit.... what you need is one or two people who are solid as hell, that will always be there no matter what.

Anyhow, I'm not trying to turn this into a 'pick apart Calin' just trying to bring to your attention how you come across to people.


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## Geoff

Calin said:


> Yes, the world clearly doesn't revolve around my PC, but for me my PC is one of the most important things in my life. I do have real life friends, just not as many as other people do.


What do you do with your friends besides gaming?  And to your other post, no one said anything about you "giving up on your rig", but what you have now is fantastic.  If your parents are just giving you money, why not use that to get started in another hobby or sport?  Go snowboarding, get into photography, join a bowling league, whatever.  There is no point in spending all your time and money on a gaming PC.


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## Laquer Head

Geoff said:


> What do you do with your friends besides gaming?  And to your other post, no one said anything about you "giving up on your rig", but what you have now is fantastic.  If your parents are just giving you money, why not use that to get started in another hobby or sport?  Go snowboarding, get into photography, join a bowling league, whatever.  There is no point in spending all your time and money on a gaming PC.


Agreed..

You know what would be really smart...if your parents give you money and you just start dumping into a high interest saving account, by the time your ready to go to college/university/trade school you'll have a sweet little cushion to sit on that most kids dont.

The PC you have is beyond overkill, upgrading anything on it is purely wasteful.


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## beers

Calin said:


> That's 1700$ only for the CPU. I doubt that the highest end Ryzen chip + a board would be over 800-900$


Are you really arguing about dollars trying to sidegrade from your platform to another platform that will give you similar performance, or dropping hundreds of dollars on another 1080 'just to fill a hole'?

You don't give a crap about money now, why are you trying to make an argument about caring?


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## Calin

beers said:


> Are you really arguing about dollars trying to sidegrade from your platform to another platform that will give you similar performance, or dropping hundreds of dollars on another 1080 'just to fill a hole'?
> 
> You don't give a crap about money now, why are you trying to make an argument about caring?


1700$ is a bit extreme. Like I said, I will upgrade only if Ryzen is better by a decent margin than the 6700k, if not, Skylake X it is, but not the top CPU if it will be 1700$


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## Geoff

Calin said:


> 1700$ is a bit extreme. Like I said, I will upgrade only if Ryzen is better by a decent margin than the 6700k, if not, Skylake X it is, but not the top CPU if it will be 1700$


How is $1700 extreme, but not having two 1080's or a $1k liquid cooling loop?


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## Laquer Head

Geoff said:


> How is $1700 extreme, but not having two 1080's or a $1k liquid cooling loop?


This is just it, where does one draw the line at 'too expensive' when they aren't paying for it and everything to this point has lead us to assume money isn't a factor, as there seems to be an endless parental supply.


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## Darren

Alright guys. Moving on from Calin please...


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## beers

It looks like you can buy the 7700K and similar at Microcenter now although the improvements are fairly minimal.

I thought the Zen APU with HBM would be pretty spiffy though.


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## Geoff

Darren said:


> Alright guys. Moving on from Calin please...


Darren, why would you buy an AMD?  They suck.

*Guys lets bash on Darren *


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## Arc

Calin said:


> I'm personally waiting for Ryzen aka Zen, I would love to go back to AMD. If it turns out to suck I will wait for Skylake X (X99 successor)



That is what I find to be so strange about Intel. You have to wait for two years for the Enthusiast or Extreme series CPUs and motherboards to catch up with the consumer based CPUs and motherboards. I just find it odd but perhaps AMD will make Intel do away with the dual LGA platform.


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## Laquer Head

Geoff said:


> Darren, why would you buy an AMD?  They suck.
> 
> *Guys lets bash on Darren *


I'm in!


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## beers

Would this count as BASHing on Darren?



> [beers@fs ~]$ bash -c "" && echo "on darren"
> on darren


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## Laquer Head

Has anyone else been experiencing severe lag and performance issues ever since @Darren upgraded his avatar??


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## beers

Laquer Head said:


> Has anyone else been experiencing severe lag and performance issues ever since @Darren upgraded his avatar??


Actually, his performance across managing multiple threads has increased by about 40%


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## Darren

beers said:


> Actually, his performance across managing multiple threads has increased by about 40%


Way more than that even since the oft quoted 40% increase is over Excavator, not Piledriver like my 8320.


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