# FS: Minature Desktop Computer (3.8" High)



## Gareth

I have listed another Micro-Desktop for sale on eBay, priced at $509.99, This is unlike any other PC I have found on eBay, measuring just [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 8.0"x3.8"x10.7"[/FONT]. It is a Micro-ITX computer. Also, there are 5 available!


The computer spec is

*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]VIA nanoBGA C7 Processor[/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1GB of DDR2 System Memory[/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]250GB SATA Hard Disk Drive[/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DVD-ROM/CD-RW Slim Combo Drive[/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6x USB 2.0 Ports[/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Windows XP Home Edition SP2
[/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dual 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet
TV Tuner with Remote Control
[/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 Audio Ports

[/FONT]*​


----------



## oregon

how does that processor compare to a core 2 duo?


----------



## Gareth

Erm, its probably not as fast, I am presuming it would be around the speed of an EEE PC.


----------



## Nightrain

oregon said:


> how does that processor compare to a core 2 duo?



Performance wise I don't see it being anywhere near a Core2. The via chips are low power chips as well, and most compete with the Celeron M chips IIRC. 

They aren't going to be a powerhouse, but it will do its job, and do so without a huge power draw.


----------



## oregon

So is VIA a large company? I've never heard of them. I always thought AMD and Intel were the only consumer processor companies


----------



## Gareth

VIA usually make the processors for systems which are as energy efficient as possible. They're quite big, Everex use them quite often.


----------



## Gareth

I made a listing error, from what I believe, it is actually 1.5GHz, not 1GHz. Also, it is 22nm in size.


----------



## diduknowthat

Via makes many low end chipsets, and some extremely low powered CPUs. It's a pretty good desktop if you have a TV tuner in it.


----------



## Nightrain

Via really hit their niche with the extremely small boards and low power draw. Nano-ITX and mITX and such are extremely small, and you can fit systems in extremely small rigs/spaces.

They are a good company and make good products. They don't aim to be up there with AMD/Intel. I've been thinking about getting one of their board/cpu's for a sff build, but I will have to pass on a prebuilt. But very cool that he put all that into such a small package.


----------



## Gareth

I have been thinking about a TV Tuner, infact, ill add one to sweeten the deal a bit.


edit:
Just added a TV tuner, and put that small case back on after finding out that the TV tuner will fit into the small case.


----------



## Gareth

Do you think it will sell better with no operating system and $69 less or keep the OS?


----------



## tlarkin

ew vista is on that thing?  Does it even run since Vista is so resource hungry and requires all kinds of multi media instruction sets, be it sse or whatever.


----------



## Gareth

Where did you see Vista? I have XP Home on it, but yes, it is capable of running Vista.


----------



## tlarkin

Huh, I swore it read Vista Home Premium, oh well, I must have had a slip of dyslexia or something.


----------



## Gareth

Not a problem  Ive made that mistake lots of times too.


----------



## diduknowthat

Also, you should mention it's multimedia capabilities. I see it as mainly a HTPC, assuming it's pretty quiet.


----------



## Kesava

allow 2 - 3 weeks for delivery? why? lol


----------



## ANNR

59 for shipping? maybe less than half..... that may attract more potential buyers.


----------



## Gareth

$59 shipping, where are you to get that amount? Ill make sure it went through.

The shipping is calculated with the USPS calculator dependent on your zip code.

I put 2 to 3 weeks, just in case there is any problems with the build (if it fails the tests etc) so then there is enough time to get replacements in and built before the customer gets angry and leaving negative feedback, and that usually includes ship time also. However, if the first build is successful, it should be 1 1/2 weeks tops usually. 


I will add note for the media center capabilities on it.


----------



## Gareth

That $59 shipping is overnight, If you would like to see the standard shipping rates, please enter your country and postal code.


----------



## SirKenin

lol.  They're called "Shuttle PCs" (Shuttle is the company that actually builds that style of unit originally)..  The VIA processor is a complete piece of garbage (they are the former Cyrix).  The only thing going for them is that they're uber-efficient.   They're designed for multimedia use and the whole computer is worth about $300 brand new.


----------



## Gareth

I just had a look at the shuttle PC, and they actually look to be bigger ones I am offering. They look to be Micro-ATX? The one I am offering is Mini-ITX.


----------



## SirKenin

They have those too. I just threw one in recycling maybe 3 days ago.


----------



## Gareth

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300214724766

Here is the Intel Core 2 Duo Model, with a much higher spec than the other one. 

*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Intel Core 2 Duo T5500 1.66GHz Processor [/FONT][/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2GB of DDR2 System Memory[/FONT][/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]320GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Disk Drive[/FONT][/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo Drive[/FONT][/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6x USB 2.0 Ports[/FONT][/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DUAL 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet[/FONT][/FONT]​*​ *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 Audio Ports[/FONT][/FONT]*
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Windows XP Home Edition w/Service Pack 2
DVI, VGA and HDMI
  Wireless G Mini-PCI Card
Dynatron CPU Fan
[/FONT][/FONT]*​
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]PCI TV Tuner w/Remote Control
[/FONT][/FONT]*
and it has been priced at $899.99 ​


----------



## SirKenin

If you look on nextag.com you'll see that normal people sell the Core 2 Duo with much higher spec between $300 and $500...


----------



## Gareth

Indeed, however, from what I can see that is in a normal size rig. Such as the processor in the one I am selling costs $210 alone as it has a max thermal power of 34w. I am aiming to build tiny desktop computers with little thermal power.


----------



## fortyways

diduknowthat said:


> Also, you should mention it's multimedia capabilities. I see it as mainly a HTPC, assuming it's pretty quiet.



It's not. I saw the little piece of crap at Fry's. The processor is permanently soldered to the board and it has a tiny heatsink on it with a small, maybe 40mm at the most, high speed fan. Like a crappy northbridge cooler.

Antec and other case makers sell nice HTPC cases the size of DVD players that'll fit mATX motherboards with real processors in them.

This VIA crap is a novelty toy. It's meant for cash registers.

By the way, the motherboard/CPU combo was under 100 bucks.


----------



## fortyways

Garethman!!` said:


> Such as the processor in the one I am selling costs $210 alone as it has a max thermal power of 34w.



lol

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116039

35W TDP, Conroe Core 2 architecture, Intel, $51, 1.8GHz, highly overclockable.

but yeah, the $210 proprietary piece of crap is better.


----------



## mep916

fortyways said:


> but yeah, the $210 proprietary piece of crap is better.



lmao.


----------



## Gareth

fortyways said:


> lol
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116039
> 
> 35W TDP, Conroe Core 2 architecture, Intel, $51, 1.8GHz, highly overclockable.
> 
> but yeah, the $210 proprietary piece of crap is better.



Thats Socket LGA775, the ITX mobo im using is Socket M 
The computer makes Apx 28db also.



fortyways said:


> It's not. I saw the little piece of crap at Fry's. The processor is permanently soldered to the board and it has a tiny heatsink on it with a small, maybe 40mm at the most, high speed fan. Like a crappy northbridge cooler.
> 
> Antec and other case makers sell nice HTPC cases the size of DVD players that'll fit mATX motherboards with real processors in them.
> 
> This VIA crap is a novelty toy. It's meant for cash registers.
> 
> By the way, the motherboard/CPU combo was under 100 bucks.




Those are nice cases, I was going for size, however, ill consider it on the launch of my website.


----------



## fortyways

Garethman!!` said:


> Thats Socket LGA775, the ITX mobo im using is Socket M
> The computer makes Apx 28db also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are nice cases, I was going for size, however, ill consider it on the launch of my website.



Please help me understand what warrants all the performance, monetary, compatibility, reliability and upgradeability sacrafices that are made in order to use the smaller form factor.

I currently stand by my previous statement that it's a novelty toy, but I'm willing to investigate the possibility that I may be wrong.


----------



## Gareth

Usually benefit places with very little space such as dorms, classrooms, offices and for television media centers. The VIA PC is designed for people on a tight budget, where as the Intel version is designed for people with a more of a relaxed budget for a TV PC. 

The processor can be upgraded on the Intel System, up to a 2.33GHz Core 2 Duo I believe. 

There is really no sacrifices in the computer, providing your not planning on gaming on the system, it has the hard disk capacity of a standard computer (320GB SATAII), 2GB of DDR2 RAM, TV Tuner, HDMI, VGA and DVI, 6 USB ports and more. 
The price, I agree is higher than standard desktop computers, but the demand for small form factor computers are becoming more popular for places mentioned above.

It also is faster and has more hard disk space than most laptops offered at that price.


----------



## tlarkin

tight budget?  For $500 bucks I can get a desktop that is way more powerful.


----------



## Cleric7x9

it seems you havent had much success at selling computers on ebay, maybe lower your prices a little bit? its a tough world out there. good luck with it


----------



## Gareth

Indeed, not much success at all. I will lower the prices on some, but what I am going to do is setup a website, with Google adwords etc. That should hopefully be better at selling them. Thanks for the luck, hopefully one will sell soon


----------



## tlarkin

Just so you know, there is very little margin or mark up in hardware sales.  If a retail chain buys a computer for $400 their cost, they maybe sell it for $500 tops if they are lucky.

If you mark it up anything beyond that, you aren't going to sell because you can't compete.  Also, buying from a large company you get warranty and support from a company.  Can you offer those services?

I am not bashing you, but giving you an idea on how to be more successful.


----------



## Gareth

Indeed, I offer 7 to 14 day warranty with me, then all the other hardware has a warranty with the manufacturer of the hardware directly.


----------



## codeman0013

not knocking you in any way at all man but i think dell has this market cornered.. We can get an ultraslim model with our pricing for around 450 shipped to us that matches that config i agree with tlarkin might want to lower pricing.. Oh yea dell comes with a 1 year warranty free 4 hour support on site if needed(not that we would use it since we have our own it department lol)


----------



## Gareth

Indeed, they're lucky that they can do that, I am planning on having a help and support desk, with free support for 6 months where the user can talk to me on MSN Messenger or Skype.


----------



## Gareth

I have taken everybody's advice, every computer has had a price cut,

and what does everybody think of this computer?, it was that PC at $899, I replaced it with a mATX case, and a better processor, with a lower price. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300214724766


----------



## fortyways

I heard Dell loses money on every hardware sale, and that all their profit comes from software and tech support.


----------



## Gareth

That wouldn't surprise me, they do some outstanding deals.


----------



## fortyways

Hey, I'm looking at your pink computer here and you've got in the fine print "** Requires DVD Decoder (not included)."

You can take that out, Vista Premium plays DVDs in Windows Media Center without any extra decoder.


----------



## Gareth

Oh really? Excellent, thank you for that info!


----------



## SirKenin

Ok.  If you don't mind, I'd like to give you some helpful tips.

First of all, you have no reputation.  There's no incentive to buy from you..  You're a fly-by-nighter, working out of your bedroom.  There's no guarantee you'll be there in six months if I need warranty work or support.  In fact, there's a better than average chance you won't be.

Your prices are too high, and your quality is inferior.  Again, no incentive to buy.  I can buy a far superior Computer from Dell or HP, from a company that's been around and will continue to be so long after you're gone, for less money.

Based on the parts you use, and certainly your input here as well as your hopeless ebay listings, you really are an amateur.  I hope you don't take that offensively as I'm trying to be purely objective.

You're one of those guys that thinks throwing a couple of crappy parts together (Foxconn is crap for instance) and selling them for big bucks you're going to strike it rich.  You're not.  Sorry.

At LEAST be competitive.  Even then, you'll be hard pressed.  AMD is a perfect example.  They've just been in the news again, suffering serious financial woes because they're getting their arses handed to them at every turn.

So.  Up your quality, or seriously lower your price.  Like, WAY down.  The trouble is that then it's not worth selling on Ebay.  Ebay as it is has a reputation for people selling crap...  and the prices of computer items have been driven down as a result.  Even worse that you have NO feedback for the last two and a half years.

So..  Get a bunch out at cost.  Like, several dozen.  Get a reputation for quality (and Foxconn/Athena and $20 cases aren't it).  Build up a substantial feedback score.  THEN start charging a premium.

And give it up on the Via thing..  They have a use, but only experience will help you know what it is.   For instance.. One company that contracts me builds computerized distribution cabinets.  The computer is the size of a shoebox and it has a Via CPU in it.  The link as it's called is highly specialized, performing a very specific task set.

Unless you're using it to play multimedia on a TV, the Shuttle's are useless..  and at the price you're trying to get, people can buy a real good machine that is far superior in every way.

So.  Learn your products first.  Learn their applications.  Build a reputation.  Develop an online presence that's even half-way professional, don't brag about owning some POS AMD system...  develop an identity..

THEN sell for a profit.   Because really, people can buy garbage anywhere.  They don't need to buy it from you working out of your bedroom.  Dell would be more than happy to give them a $399 Dimension.  Once you have a satisfactory business presence/reputation then you can start pitching service agreements.  THAT's where Dell makes their money.


----------



## SirKenin

fortyways said:


> I heard Dell loses money on every hardware sale, and that all their profit comes from software and tech support.


 
Actually, Dell incorporates the "lost leader" strategy.  They offer a couple of base units below cost to get people in the door.  Then they upsell like mad.  The way they do it, actually, is rather ingenious and quite transparent.  The average user has no idea what hit them until after they've hit the checkout.  I'm impressed actually.

They also make huge money on their extended warranty plans.  For the most part it's pure profit.

There's a lot I could share with you about marketting and what have you.  The balance between quality and profits, etc..  There's a whole story behind the scenes.  In fact, I was on the phone today with a representative from a muli-billion dollar worldwide electronics manufacturer...  An amazing conversation, one that I wish never had to end.  

If you have the time, there's a whole other world out there.


----------



## mep916

SirKenin said:


> Actually, Dell incorporates the "lost leader" strategy.



Loss leader.


----------



## tlarkin

mep916 said:


> Loss leader.



grammar nazi


----------



## mep916

tlarkin said:


> grammar nazi



Heh. Well, I'm unfamiliar with the "lost leader" business principle. I'm assuming it was misspelled, but, whatever.


----------



## tlarkin

mep916 said:


> Heh. Well, I'm unfamiliar with the "lost leader" business principle. I'm assuming it was misspelled, but, whatever.



If you watch the office, Michael Scott would be a lost leader, lol


----------



## Gareth

SirKenin said:


> First of all, you have no reputation.  There's no incentive to buy from you..  You're a fly-by-nighter, working out of your bedroom.  There's no guarantee you'll be there in six months if I need warranty work or support.  In fact, there's a better than average chance you won't be.


 I would not have said I would be there if I wouldn't be. I can confirm that I will be on line and around in 6 months time. 



SirKenin said:


> Based on the parts you use, and certainly your input here as well as your hopeless ebay listings, you really are an amateur.  I hope you don't take that offensively as I'm trying to be purely objective.


 I would not say I was a pro, but I am most certainly not an amateur. For example, I will be taking my A+ certification test in a few weeks time, after successfully completing the A+ coursework



SirKenin said:


> You're one of those guys that thinks throwing a couple of crappy parts together (Foxconn is crap for instance) and selling them for big bucks you're going to strike it rich.  You're not.  Sorry.


 On the PC your on about, after the eBay fee's, I would have only made $20.00. 



SirKenin said:


> So.  Up your quality, or seriously lower your price.  Like, WAY down.  The trouble is that then it's not worth selling on Ebay.  Ebay as it is has a reputation for people selling crap...  and the prices of computer items have been driven down as a result.  Even worse that you have NO feedback for the last two and a half years.


 My last feedback was August 1st, 2007. Not 2 1/2 years ago. I should also be getting 3 more positive feedbacks, because I have just bought two things and sold a computer game. 



SirKenin said:


> So..  Get a bunch out at cost.  Like, several dozen.  Get a reputation for quality (and Foxconn/Athena and $20 cases aren't it).  Build up a substantial feedback score.  THEN start charging a premium.


 I couldn't afford to do that at all.



SirKenin said:


> And give it up on the Via thing..  They have a use, but only experience will help you know what it is.   For instance.. One company that contracts me builds computerized distribution cabinets.  The computer is the size of a shoebox and it has a Via CPU in it.  The link as it's called is highly specialized, performing a very specific task set.
> 
> Unless you're using it to play multimedia on a TV, the Shuttle's are useless..  and at the price you're trying to get, people can buy a real good machine that is far superior in every way.


 $369 and $599 are very low in my opinion. I replaced the $899 model with a cheaper version and a wee bit bigger case after following advice. 



SirKenin said:


> THEN sell for a profit.   Because really, people can buy garbage anywhere.  They don't need to buy it from you working out of your bedroom.  Dell would be more than happy to give them a $399 Dimension.  Once you have a satisfactory business presence/reputation then you can start pitching service agreements.  THAT's where Dell makes their money.



If they want to buy garbage from Dell, or HP, then that is their choice, but I most certainly do not sell garbage, it may not be superior specs for the most part, the computers are completely fine in doing their jobs they're designed to do.


----------



## tlarkin

I've been in that biz before and I can tell you that your prices are way too high.  For one, a company I used to work for, would custom build any system for parts + $100 labor.  They could come in, pick out what they wanted or have us build it to spec and pick it up in a day, and it only cost them $100 on top of parts.

Your systems just plain are not worth it.  I would recommend to anyone to buy from Dell over you.  This is because I know they have a guaranteed warranty and if it breaks Dell can contract out someone locally to come out and fix it at their place.

I have said this a million times before, you don't make any money off of hardware sales.  You make it all off of services and labor, and software sales.

If you really want to compete and make money you need to become a certified reseller of MS products as well as hardware companies, figure out a way to efficiently produce systems and sell them, and to top it all off offer some kind of warranty service.

What happens when someone buys a product from you and needs help to reinstall the OS, well they can't get online because they are crashed so chatting with you over the interwebs is not an option.  I don't want them to call me and I recommended your product to them, and they have no way of calling you.  I am going to say, just get a Dell and be done with it.

Just trying to give you perspective is all.


----------



## Kill Bill

tlarkin said:


> I've been in that biz before and I can tell you that your prices are way too high.  For one, a company I used to work for, would custom build any system for parts + $100 labor.  They could come in, pick out what they wanted or have us build it to spec and pick it up in a day, and it only cost them $100 on top of parts.
> 
> Your systems just plain are not worth it.  I would recommend to anyone to buy from Dell over you.  This is because I know they have a guaranteed warranty and if it breaks Dell can contract out someone locally to come out and fix it at their place.
> 
> I have said this a million times before, you don't make any money off of hardware sales.  You make it all off of services and labor, and software sales.
> 
> If you really want to compete and make money you need to become a certified reseller of MS products as well as hardware companies, figure out a way to efficiently produce systems and sell them, and to top it all off offer some kind of warranty service.
> 
> What happens when someone buys a product from you and needs help to reinstall the OS, well they can't get online because they are crashed so chatting with you over the interwebs is not an option.  I don't want them to call me and I recommended your product to them, and they have no way of calling you.  I am going to say, just get a Dell and be done with it.
> 
> Just trying to give you perspective is all.


Your right. Dells the best in the world!! I know you would love dell 

People hello your forgetting something. 
Dells and HP Cases are huge and are tower size. He should be selling them more because a dell pc with the specs he has would be 369 - 450$ and that be a big ugly tower that is brandmarked with dell all over it whilst this guys one is pretty cheap as hes putting all the hardware into a small case so IMO hes doing brilliant.

Suggestions:
1. If your trying to do media centre dont give them mobos with indergrated graphics or intel ones. I seen a mobo that gives ATI x700 prebuilt in one. If you can get them type it would be alot better.

2. Sell matching big 20 - 30inch monitors (sell in diff listings) with them as your going media centre and everone wants big monitors to watch the season finale of lost or greys anathomy.

3. Dont give them windows. Give them linux or Kubuntu and if they want windows pre-installed charge them the price of what windows your going to buy and add 5% onto it. (This also means you give them the  cd/dvd aswell as the key (you have to stick it onto the case)


----------



## Gareth

Thank you for your support Kill Bill, it is much appreciated. I have added a video card to this model http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300214724766, I never thought about selling LCDs, that is a great idea! All of the PCs now except for 1 come with Linux Ubuntu, the reason behind the one coming with XP is because the TV Tuner doesn't work in Linux. I already do send the CDs and stick the product key to the case .


----------



## Kill Bill

Garethman!!` said:


> Thank you for your support Kill Bill, it is much appreciated. I have added a video card to this model http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300214724766, I never thought about selling LCDs, that is a great idea! All of the PCs now except for 1 come with Linux Ubuntu, the reason behind the one coming with XP is because the TV Tuner doesn't work in Linux. I already do send the CDs and stick the product key to the case .



I would love to buy that pc for my parents sitting room as she loves desperate housewives and that machine doesnt look powerhungry.

But by video cards I didn't mean a big 7spec one. A normal 6600GT/x800 is fine.  And for the LCD's sell them seperately and make insurance optional  (Actually give insurance on all pcs) and sell the same pc's with another listing with the monitor included. (Once someone buys one of them get rid of the other )


----------



## Gareth

I have changed the video card to a Fanless FX5200 for the same price as that 7200GS, I figured the fan would have been noisy on it. I also added a Creative Labs Sound Blaster sound card, so then the sound will be much better than on board. I will have a try selling one with a monitor, I am planning on putting a Pico-ATX PC on, which is only 1 inch tall!


----------



## Kill Bill

Garethman!!` said:


> I have changed the video card to a Fanless FX5200 for the same price as that 7200GS, I figured the fan would have been noisy on it. I will have a try selling one with a monitor, I am planning on putting a Pico-ATX PC on, which is only 1 inch tall!



Fanless fx5200 in a small case = not pretty good. you better put it back on the gpu and by monitors etc i ment

pc 1
pc 2
pc 3

pc 1 with monitor 
pc 2 with monitor 
pc 3 with monitor

And if some buys pc 2 you have to cancell pc 2 with monitor unless you built more than one of them


----------



## Gareth

Would it be worth +$5.99 to add a quieter case fan to it? 

Ohh, o.k, ill put the 7200 back on.


----------



## Kill Bill

Garethman!!` said:


> Would it be worth +$5.99 to add a case fan to it?
> 
> Ohh, o.k, ill put the 7200 back on.



Your going to sell a pc without a fan in it nevermind what i said about buying one for my parents sitting room. I would want to have to buy a new big tv when it goes on fire


----------



## Gareth

It has a case fan on it, id refuse to sell one without a fan, what I meant was, would it be worth it to put one on which is quieter? As the one which comes with the case is quite noisy. Ill edit the message above before others get confused by it.


----------



## Kill Bill

Garethman!!` said:


> It has a case fan on it, id refuse to sell one without a fan, what I meant was, would it be worth it to put one on which is quieter? As the one which comes with the case is quite noisy. Ill edit the message above before others get confused by it.



Get a quite fan but put lots of thermal cooling in it Also why not put in a 5200fx with a small fan


----------



## Gareth

Indeed, Ill have a see what FX Graphics cards there are which are low profile. I will use some Acrtic Silver Thermal paste for the CPU also and a Zalman case fan.

Edit, id have to keep the 7200GS for 1 reason, and that reason is there are only 2 PCI slots on the board, and both are in use by TV Tuner and Sound Card.


----------



## Kill Bill

+ a small cpu cooler. (even if it is crap once it spins a bit) In the summer I might start building computers too. ATM I'm pricing everything but what makes it unique most is that I'm building the case and I want to make it very oc'able = lots of fans but small space


----------



## Gareth

What decent fan would you recommend? Im looking at an ASUS V-70


----------



## Kill Bill

Garethman!!` said:


> What decent fan would you recommend? Im looking at an ASUS V-70



It's hard to say and sorry for not replying. Looking for cheap items on net

Erm maybe some nzxt fans. I have 1 but its abit noisy but if the pc isnt worm it mightnt be as loud.


----------



## Gareth

What id do is give the 3rd party processor fan an option, so then they can just add it when buying. No problem about not replying


----------



## tlarkin

Kill Bill said:


> Your right. Dells the best in the world!! I know you would love dell
> 
> People hello your forgetting something.
> Dells and HP Cases are huge and are tower size. He should be selling them more because a dell pc with the specs he has would be 369 - 450$ and that be a big ugly tower that is brandmarked with dell all over it whilst this guys one is pretty cheap as hes putting all the hardware into a small case so IMO hes doing brilliant.
> 
> Suggestions:
> 1. If your trying to do media centre dont give them mobos with indergrated graphics or intel ones. I seen a mobo that gives ATI x700 prebuilt in one. If you can get them type it would be alot better.
> 
> 2. Sell matching big 20 - 30inch monitors (sell in diff listings) with them as your going media centre and everone wants big monitors to watch the season finale of lost or greys anathomy.
> 
> 3. Dont give them windows. Give them linux or Kubuntu and if they want windows pre-installed charge them the price of what windows your going to buy and add 5% onto it. (This also means you give them the  cd/dvd aswell as the key (you have to stick it onto the case)



Fine get a Mac mini, its a better buy and comes with better more reliable service and warranty.


----------



## Kill Bill

tlarkin said:


> Fine get a Mac mini, its a better buy and comes with better more reliable service and warranty.



macs come with tv tuners? maybe on a pro but not on a mini. Opps no apple wants you too pay another 299 for apple tv I love apple but them only giving tv turners on prob mac pros is silly


----------



## tlarkin

Fine go buy a shuttle, I was just listing the first compact PC that came to mind.  Like I said, before, companies will be better than anything this guy can do because their service and warranty will be much better than his, and more reliable.

How many people want to buy a product from a teenager, when instead for the same price or cheaper than can buy from an established company?


----------



## Gareth

Your arguments constantly conflict or simply do not stand up to scrutiny. Firstly, you told everyone on another listing I am more expensive than established companies like Dell and HP are and that they should buy from them, which is pure fantasy; I am cheaper than equivalent products from either of these manufacturers! Furthermore, you then contradict that argument here by telling people to buy from Apple, who are hideously expensive and far more costly than either me or the other companies you have mentioned. The Mac mini is not comparable to my product anyway.
  What “problem” do you have with me and the items I am trying to sell exactly? Does everyone selling computers get this treatment from you or have you saved this unreserved spate of unsubstantiated criticism especially for me. Have you had a bad experience in the past with buying computers from eBay and made it your mission to try to discredit every single one of them, or do you just hate me? 
  One of your “big issues” seems to be after-sales service and support. I have a good feedback rating on eBay, better than many other vendors here do, and yet you appear to be on a mission to stop me selling anything. Although I cannot claim to be one of the large businesses you speak so well of, since when has their support been so wonderful anyway? One only need read look at the countless consumer protection organizations out there to see evidence of this. HP, Dell and/or their resellers are all guilty of offering bad support and unsatisfactory results for countless customers! 
  My customers have access to myself through eBay, MSN, AIM, Skype and even this forum- I am directly accountable; they even know my address! Companies can collapse, but I will be here to answer questions from my customers and help them with their problems until I pass away! 
I apologize for what has been an exceptionally long reply (one might even call it a rant) but I am getting tired of this constant barrage of negative nonsense. If you can provide evidence from authoritative sources to backup your arguments I will gladly entertain them; I am not deaf to constructive criticism or well-founded concerns. 
The Mac mini is not comparable to my system in specification or price and conflicts with your previous arguments on my other listings. The Mac mini does not have dedicated graphics memory, even half of the storage space or RAM or a sound card. Oh and its $160 more (see Apple Store U.S. online, Mac Mini Super Drive model).

Many Regards,
  Gareth Hale.


----------



## Kill Bill

Garethman!!` said:


> What problem do you have with me and the items I am trying to sell exactly? Does everyone on eBay selling computers get this treatment from you or have you saved this unreserved spate of unsubstantiated criticism especially for me? Have you had a bad experience in the past with buying computers from eBay and made it your mission to try and discredit every single one of them, or do you just hate me?
> Your arguments constantly conflict or simply don't stand up to scrutiny. Firstly you tell everyone I'm more expensive than established companies like Dell and HP and that they should buy from them, which is pure fantasy; I'm cheaper than equivalent products from either of these manufacturers! Furthermore, you then contradict that argument here by telling people to buy from Apple, who are hideously expensive and far more costly than either me or the other companies you've mentioned.
> I have a good feedback rating on eBay, better than many other vendors here and yet you appear to be on a mission to stop me selling anything, by assassinating my character and making comparison that simply are not true! As regards support, although I cannot claim to be a large business since when has their support be excellent anyway? One only need read look at the countless consumer protection organizations out there to see evidence of this. HP, Dell and/or their resellers are all guilty of offering bad support and unsatisfactory results for countless customers! My customers have access to myself through eBay, MSN, AIM, Skype and the telephone. They even know my address! Companies can collapse, and they do collapse but, unless I should pass away, I will be here to answer questions from my customers and help them with their problems.
> Sorry for an exceptionally long reply (one might even call it a rant) but I'm getting tired of this constant barrage of negative nonsense. If you can provide evidence from authoritative sources to backup your arguments I will gladly entertain them; I am not deaf to constructive criticism or well-founded concerns.
> 
> The Mac mini is not comparable to my system in specification or price and conflicts with your previous arguments on my other listings.
> 
> Regards,
> Gareth Hale.


----------



## funkysnair

Garethman!!` said:


> Your arguments constantly conflict or simply do not stand up to scrutiny. Firstly, you told everyone on another listing I am more expensive than established companies like Dell and HP are and that they should buy from them, which is pure fantasy; I am cheaper than equivalent products from either of these manufacturers! Furthermore, you then contradict that argument here by telling people to buy from Apple, who are hideously expensive and far more costly than either me or the other companies you have mentioned. The Mac mini is not comparable to my product anyway.
> What “problem” do you have with me and the items I am trying to sell exactly? Does everyone selling computers get this treatment from you or have you saved this unreserved spate of unsubstantiated criticism especially for me. Have you had a bad experience in the past with buying computers from eBay and made it your mission to try to discredit every single one of them, or do you just hate me?
> One of your “big issues” seems to be after-sales service and support. I have a good feedback rating on eBay, better than many other vendors here do, and yet you appear to be on a mission to stop me selling anything. Although I cannot claim to be one of the large businesses you speak so well of, since when has their support been so wonderful anyway? One only need read look at the countless consumer protection organizations out there to see evidence of this. HP, Dell and/or their resellers are all guilty of offering bad support and unsatisfactory results for countless customers!
> My customers have access to myself through eBay, MSN, AIM, Skype and even this forum- I am directly accountable; they even know my address! Companies can collapse, but I will be here to answer questions from my customers and help them with their problems until I pass away!
> I apologize for what has been an exceptionally long reply (one might even call it a rant) but I am getting tired of this constant barrage of negative nonsense. If you can provide evidence from authoritative sources to backup your arguments I will gladly entertain them; I am not deaf to constructive criticism or well-founded concerns.
> The Mac mini is not comparable to my system in specification or price and conflicts with your previous arguments on my other listings. The Mac mini does not have dedicated graphics memory, even half of the storage space or RAM or a sound card. Oh and its $160 more (see Apple Store U.S. online, Mac Mini Super Drive model).
> 
> Many Regards,
> Gareth Hale.



yes mate i know what you are trying to do with your products and i say go for it mate!

some people will discredit you but at the end of the day its your mind you use it, dont follow the other sheep


----------



## just a noob

tlarkin said:


> Fine go buy a shuttle, I was just listing the first compact PC that came to mind.  Like I said, before, companies will be better than anything this guy can do because their service and warranty will be much better than his, and more reliable.
> 
> How many people want to buy a product from a teenager, when instead for the same price or cheaper than can buy from an established company?


what the hell is your problem with him trying to build computers?


----------



## Gareth

Thank you, you two for your support . 

I decided to list 1 more computer, this time a Pico-ITX desktop, and it can be seen in my list of items for sale, which can be seen here.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgav24v


----------



## SirKenin

I think you're looking at it wrong.  He might not have said it in the most objective fashion, but then again I'm not exactly known for my PC postings either.

The facts remain:

You're an amateur
Your ebay listings look the "I'm an amateur" part
Your prices are too high
Your quality is too low
People have no incentive to buy off you... except maybe other kids.
You're hoping to make a quick buck like all the rest of the hosers out there.

tlarkin and I come at it from a different perspective.  We deal with the people who buy off people like you.  We hear all the crap.  We're trying to help you and them.  You don't want to listen.  You think you've got it all sewn up.   You configure a system, out of mediocre parts, take their money, wait for it to be transfered out of your Paypal account, use the money to go to your local computer store or whatever, sell it and three weeks later they might actually get it.

It's a piss poor way of doing business and you're a poser.  If you can't deal with it, that's fine...  But don't bash tlarkin for being honest.


----------



## funkysnair

yeh-dont bash cos its rude lol....

yeh i notice some things i would have done different if it was my self! but its the manner in which things are to be said!!


----------



## just a noob

will it really fit in my pocket...? lol that is ia serious question, if it does i just might have to save up to buy one =\


----------



## Gareth

Yes, it really does fit in your pocket.


----------



## funkysnair

i have just been on there website, man they got some small motherboards-

i know the via chips arnt the best but they arnt in competition with intel or amd they seem to be aiming for a different market!


----------



## mep916

With all due respect, most of the computers you're selling are very low quality. You should focus on higher end builds using the latest mid to high range components. A good pricing model would be Cost + 15%. This would allow, roughly, 5-6 % for associated Ebay and PayPal fees, and possibly 9-10% profit. If a PC costs you $1,000 to build, you'd sell it for $1,150, for example. I don't think that's unreasonable. Make it very clear to your customers that you're offering *limited* support and ship the products faster. Three weeks is ridiculous. 

The pocket PC you're marketing is extremely underpowered and way overpriced. In fact, stay completely away from VIA products. You can build a quality, quiet HTPC with an Intel or AMD chip, using a mATX mobo. Playing online games and using that pocket PC as a media center, is, at best, a strech. I'm assuming the integrated graphics are awful on that board. 

I admire the fact that you're 17 and attempting to start a business. I wish you the best of luck. The Q9300 build was a good idea, but you're not going to make any money selling those < $500 computers. Focus on good quality HTPC products and gaming rigs.


----------



## Gareth

Indeed, their boards are really good at small sizes, I believe, oneday in the future, that we will get the power of 128-core processors, Octo-SLi, 128GB RAM, Millions of terrabytes of HDD, and some new device to replace DVDs in something that small, if  not smaller. 

*What a vision I had then*



mep916 said:


> With all due respect, most of the computers you're selling are very low quality. You should focus on higher end builds using the latest mid to high range components. A good pricing model would be Cost + 15%. This would allow, roughly, 5-6 % for associated Ebay and PayPal fees, and possibly 9-10% profit. If a PC costs you $1,000 to build, you'd sell it for $1,150, for example. I don't think that's unreasonable. Make it very clear to your customers that you're offering *limited* support and ship the products faster. Three weeks is ridiculous.
> 
> The pocket PC you're marketing is extremely underpowered and way overpriced. In fact, stay completely away from VIA products. You can build a quality, quiet HTPC with an Intel or AMD chip, using a mATX mobo. Playing online games and using that pocket PC as a media center, is, at best, a strech. I'm assuming the integrated graphics are awful on that board.
> 
> I admire the fact that you're 17 and attempting to start a business. I wish you the best of luck. The Q9300 build was a good idea, but you're not going to make any money selling those < $500 computers. Focus on good quality HTPC products and gaming rigs.



Thanks for that help , I will have a look around on-line, and I will come up with a new HTPC which uses high quality parts. And since it costs quite a bit of money to list the auctions, ill revise that tiny Pick-ITX PC and replace it all completely.


----------



## SirKenin

I'm liking the sounds of that last post a lot better.


----------



## mep916

SirKenin said:


> I'm liking the sounds of that last post a lot better.



You catch more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar.


----------



## funkysnair

mep916 said:


> You catch more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar.



good point


----------



## Gareth

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300215819209

Here we go, how does this look for a high quality media center PC? I have used every high quality part I could think of. I used the 8800GT because of space, any other circumstances, and I would have used the GTS. Specs are


Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Processor (4x 2.40GHz) with Arctic Silver MX2 Thermal Paste

4,096MB of DDR2 800 PC6400 A-DATA RAM w/Heatsinks (2x 2GB Sticks)

1.0TB Hard Disk Space (2x 500GB Western Digital Caviar 7200RPM SATA Hard Disk Drives)

 ASUS 18X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe SATA 

ASUS TM-982 Micro-ATX Mini-Tower Computer Case
ASUS P5E-VM LGA775 Motherboard, with 2 PCI Express x1, 1 PCI Express x16, 1 PCI, 6 SATA, IDE, Floppy

9x USB 2.0 (6 on back, 3 on front)
10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet
1x IEEE 1394 Port
Zalman 80mm Exhaust and Intake Fans
65-in-1 Media Card Reader 

7.1 Surround Sound

Happauge WinTV-PVR 500
EVGA NVIDIA 8800GT 512MB PCI Express 

Cooler Master eXtreme Power 650W Power Supply
100% Genuine Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 with COA and CD 

and I priced it at $1,399.99​


----------



## ThatGuy16

Thats nice, i would just use the stock heatsink on the quad. For the manufactures warranty and would save you a few dollars..

or is it OEM?


----------



## Gareth

I never thought about manufacture warranty on that, ill put standard heat sink/fan on, so then the customer can change it and knock the price down accordingly, as I don't want to void their warranty for them. I have also added warranty info to the pages.


----------



## tlarkin

Garethman!!` said:


> Your arguments constantly conflict or simply do not stand up to scrutiny. Firstly, you told everyone on another listing I am more expensive than established companies like Dell and HP are and that they should buy from them, which is pure fantasy; I am cheaper than equivalent products from either of these manufacturers! Furthermore, you then contradict that argument here by telling people to buy from Apple, who are hideously expensive and far more costly than either me or the other companies you have mentioned. The Mac mini is not comparable to my product anyway.



No it is the truth.  Dell, HP, etc offer similar products for cheaper and have better support and better warranty.  The Mac mini is completely comparable because it is a tiny small form factor desktop PC with desktop specs.



> What “problem” do you have with me and the items I am trying to sell exactly? Does everyone selling computers get this treatment from you or have you saved this unreserved spate of unsubstantiated criticism especially for me. Have you had a bad experience in the past with buying computers from eBay and made it your mission to try to discredit every single one of them, or do you just hate me?



Don't take it personal.  You are trying to get into a nice market business, and your systems in my opinions are too expensive for what you get.  I was simply trying to show you a better business model.  You should focus on efficiently building a base model, which customer's can choose from say 3 base models.  Like a barebones.  Then, allow them to choose any extra upgrades.  I have never bought any computer from ebay, I just build it myself or buy it directly from the company, or on a few occasions I have purchased used equipment from companies.


> One of your “big issues” seems to be after-sales service and support. I have a good feedback rating on eBay, better than many other vendors here do, and yet you appear to be on a mission to stop me selling anything. Although I cannot claim to be one of the large businesses you speak so well of, since when has their support been so wonderful anyway? One only need read look at the countless consumer protection organizations out there to see evidence of this. HP, Dell and/or their resellers are all guilty of offering bad support and unsatisfactory results for countless customers!
> My customers have access to myself through eBay, MSN, AIM, Skype and even this forum- I am directly accountable; they even know my address! Companies can collapse, but I will be here to answer questions from my customers and help them with their problems until I pass away!



Example of what I am talking about which you are not grasping.  My motherboard dies 3 months after I purchase it from you.  I call you, how are you going to verify its a dead motherboard, and get me the part?  If my motherboard is dead, how can I get on the internet if it is my only computer?  You don't have any customer service, which is actually worse than no customer service.  Secondly, you don't really make any money off of hardware sales, so you should probably look into services, which you can bill clients by the hour for them.  Networking, deployment, installation, support in general, on site tech calls, etc.  That is where the money is made.  Apple, IBM, HP, Sony, etc all have ASP programs (authorized service provider) so I don't even have to call them direct and deal with them.  I can take my HP down the street to the Authorized HP shop, and they can get a part ordered directly and replace it, with out any cost to me (as long as it is a valid warranty claim) and HP over ngihts all the parts.  So, I get a ton of better service there.


> I apologize for what has been an exceptionally long reply (one might even call it a rant) but I am getting tired of this constant barrage of negative nonsense. If you can provide evidence from authoritative sources to backup your arguments I will gladly entertain them; I am not deaf to constructive criticism or well-founded concerns.
> The Mac mini is not comparable to my system in specification or price and conflicts with your previous arguments on my other listings. The Mac mini does not have dedicated graphics memory, even half of the storage space or RAM or a sound card. Oh and its $160 more (see Apple Store U.S. online, Mac Mini Super Drive model).
> 
> Many Regards,
> Gareth Hale.



I will disregard your ignorance on Apple products, most people who only use PCs don't get it.  Also, like I said earlier don't take offense to this.  To give you a little background of where I am coming from with out sounding arrogant and to be constructive, I will list you my personal experiences with technology.  Been in the IT field for almost a decade.  Started off working at a warranty service shop when I was 18 and serviced all major brands of PCs and Apple products.  We had a sales side which I supported the sales sides customers as well as any other client who doesn't have their own internal IT department or to any consumer who wanted their PC fixed.  I also got a discount on everything we sold there which was 5% above cost.  So, I know profit margins on hardware sales pretty well.  I would always look up the discount on new items to see if I wanted to buy one.  After many years of working there repairing all kinds of PCs, Macs, laser printers, HD TVs, monitors, laptops, desktops, you name it and I have most likely at one time worked on one.  

I got all my certs and started working for a school district and left the ASP shop.  There I managed 10 thousand windows machines as well as Novell and Linux servers and about 400 Macs.  I was part of the technology division that did all the IT work.  I did warranty repair on all our HP proliant servers, which when one went down I could hop online make a warranty claim (b/c I got my APS HP cert) and that part would show up in my office the very next day.  I am very familiar with how warranty repair works.

Now, I am currently a network administrator with a different school district.  I now manage 6000 Macbooks, 20 Xserves, as well as several thousand PC and mac desktops.

So, when people approach me and want me to help build them a PC, I mostly just point them toward Dell or HP because I can't be there for them all the time nor do I want them constantly calling me or pestering me.  Now, if they want to pay me my hourly minimum contract rate (oh yeah I also sub contracted on the side for a few years as well) which starts at $75/hour then I will gladly help them.  However, I give them my personal cell phone number when I am billing them.

What you want to offer does not benefit the customer nor yourself really.  If you seriously want to make money and do this for a living, then you need to redesign your business model completely.  Find out how to make your custom PCs in a timely, efficient manner.  That way you could keep parts on hand for your clients, establish a name for yourself and maybe hire someone to help out with phone calls and such.  Become a certified Microsoft and Intel reseller, which gives you benefits and you can even make money off of it.  Then offer support options for on-site like networking set up, software installs, physical installs, so on and so forth.

All those other companies and some individual companies offer those services which as a consumer seems to be a better choice than someone who does not offer those services.

It is up to you how you want to run your business, but what are you offering that some person down the street from me can't?  A lot of people can build a computer these days.


----------



## Kill Bill

Garethman!!` said:


> I never thought about manufacture warranty on that, ill put standard heat sink/fan on, so then the customer can change it and knock the price down accordingly, as I don't want to void their warranty for them. I have also added warranty info to the pages.


No offience but that pc u listed isnt mini. It's a huge tower


----------



## Gareth

Yeah, the mini PC is still running, I believe its got a couple hours left. That tower Is actually a Micro-ATX Mini Tower, so its smaller than a regular tower also.


----------



## Cleric7x9

Garethman!!` said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300215819209
> 
> Here we go, how does this look for a high quality media center PC? I have used every high quality part I could think of. I used the 8800GT because of space, any other circumstances, and I would have used the GTS. Specs are
> 
> 
> Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Processor (4x 2.40GHz) with Arctic Silver MX2 Thermal Paste
> 
> 4,096MB of DDR2 800 PC6400 A-DATA RAM w/Heatsinks (2x 2GB Sticks)
> 
> 1.0TB Hard Disk Space (2x 500GB Western Digital Caviar 7200RPM SATA Hard Disk Drives)
> 
> ASUS 18X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe SATA
> 
> ASUS TM-982 Micro-ATX Mini-Tower Computer Case
> ASUS P5E-VM LGA775 Motherboard, with 2 PCI Express x1, 1 PCI Express x16, 1 PCI, 6 SATA, IDE, Floppy
> 
> 9x USB 2.0 (6 on back, 3 on front)
> 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet
> 1x IEEE 1394 Port
> Zalman 80mm Exhaust and Intake Fans
> 65-in-1 Media Card Reader
> 
> ASUS Xonar PCI Express 7.1 Sound Card
> Happauge WinTV-PVR 500
> EVGA NVIDIA 8800GT 512MB PCI Express
> 
> Cooler Master eXtreme Power 650W Power Supply
> 100% Genuine Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 with COA and CD
> 
> and I priced it at $1,684.99​




i must say, i think you have definitely improved your listing there


----------



## Gareth

Thank you Cleric7x9


----------



## Cleric7x9

you may want to consider just using the stock fans, and removing that sound card since im sure the mobo has 7.1 built in, you could save a few more dollars there.


----------



## Gareth

The cooling ive left in because its a very powerful system in a little case, so id like to keep the ventilation as good as possible. But I did lower the price. The sound card I am undecided about, ill put it on standard for now.


----------



## Gareth

Hey all, sorry for bringing up such an old thread. But I thought id give everyone an update  I have sold a couple of PCs on eBay, and im hoping one of them will give me some feedback! Today I will be building an E8500 PC that I have sold, with 4GB RAM and a 4850 Video card. Until one gives me a feedback for a PC I sold, it still looks as if I am a new PC builder!


----------



## theasian100

If I were to look for a computer that is prebuilt even with custom parts, I personally look for the spec (you got that covered) but I always like to see the Brands of the items inside of it other wise i don't even consider that one computer


----------



## just a noob

if my family ever goes to buy another prebuilt, ill try to refer them to you


----------



## Gareth

Thanks Just a noob  Very much appreciated.


----------

