# Same old same old



## wolfeking

Okay, budget is $600 or so, + or - probably $50. 

Motherboard: Z77 Extreme 4 (RMA status as packaging so shipping out probably today or tomorrow) 
RAM: 8 GB DDR3 1600 
PSU: 600 Watt Modstream Pro 
GPU: HD 4870 512 MB 
CPU: G530 stock (~ = to a C2D @ 3GHz) 
HDD: 1TB Seagate ST31000524AS

Okay. I want to know what to upgrade. I am fairly happy with what I have now, as it runs what I am doing fine. I can go for a HD4870 x2 and a new PSU and be good for now but I do not know how much better it will go. Or I could get a 2500k and a good cooler, like a H80 or H100 and be good CPU wise and remove and CPU limitation from the equation. OR I could probably go for a HD6950 and be fine with the GPU and upgrade to a 2500 later and be good. I really do not know. I do not want to upgrade more than just the CPU or GPU at once as I want to see what it will do to the performance at once.


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## spirit

I'd upgrade to a 2500K or another quad-core i5 before you upgrade anything else. After that though, I'd say the graphics card is next on the list of parts to upgrade.


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## wolfeking

okay, why? 
I just want to be sure as to where the recommendations are coming from before I follow them. Not saying they are bad recommendations at all vista.


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## spirit

wolfeking said:
			
		

> okay, why?


Your GPU is probably OK for the time being, it was a high-end card 'back in the day' but it's not so high-end these days, but still plays games OK-ish. Upgrading the CPU would be beneficial to you because the G530 is kind of weak and not really a gaming chip. You should see quite a big difference in performance just by upgrading to a 2500K or 3570K alone. You get extra cores to start with, and as we see more games which are written/optimised for more than one or two cores, it will be beneficial for you.

Also, if you keep your G530 and then upgrade the graphics card now to something like a 6950 for example, your CPU is going to bottleneck that card, so that's another reason why you need to upgrade the CPU first.


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## wolfeking

okay, so if I just go for a 2500k and say a H2O 620 for now would it be good to go to 4GHz and still be solid cool like I am getting right now? I might also go up to 16GB of ram, just to have it since I can get it all (620, 2500k and 8GB of Gamer 2) for $325.97 shipped. 
Plus that will still leave quite a bit to repair the trumpet (member from the PYP thread?) seeing as I got $856 to spend and only $326 on upgrades here.


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## spirit

Yeah you should be able to go quite a way past 4.0GHz with a 2500K and H20 620 cooling it. I've got my 2500K at 4.3GHz using an Arctic Cooling Freezer 13, and that's an air-cooler. Upgrading to a 2500K won't just help in the games, but also in other stuff too like encoding/rendering and multi-tasking.  Worthwhile I say! 

Yeah I'd say you can upgrade to 16GB of RAM if you have any money left over. It's overkill for gaming now but hey, having lots of RAM is never a bad thing. It's so cheap these days as well, you may as well just spring for it.

Yes I do remember the trumpet.


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## wolfeking

Well I want to keep it cool and stable, like rock solid stable like my current processor. I can do prime95 for over 12 hours @ low 40's iirc. I want the 2500k to do the same at whatever I OC it to. 

And I probably am going to get the extra memory just to have it. I have not a clue what I can do to use 16GB but its there if necessary, right?


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## spirit

wolfeking said:
			
		

> Well I want to keep it cool and stable, like rock solid stable like my current processor. I can do prime95 for over 12 hours @ low 40's iirc. I want the 2500k to do the same at whatever I OC it to.


Yep with that cooler you can easily take a 2500K to 4.0GHz and still be rock solid and stable with very good temps. The 2500K can go further, but I'll leave it up to you to decide how far you want to push it. 4.0GHz would be a good place to start.



			
				wolfeking said:
			
		

> I have not a clue what I can do to use 16GB but its there if necessary, right?


16GB is good for stuff like virtual machines and stuff that eat RAM, I don't know if you use VMs or not though? Anyway, it's there if you need it as you said.


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## wolfeking

well seeing as how the 2500k will kick arse at 4GHz compared to any AMD processor out there other than the FX8****s, and probably even them, I will be happy. 

And I will probably do a VM of React OS and A few Linuxes to see what I can find to Play nice with AMD cards and finish updating the guide. So at most maybe 8GB of RAM to that, leaving 12 for other things.

Edit, how much better would  CF on HD 4870 be? I can get a 4870 for ~65, and I already have a crossfire bridge. But I will need a better PSU then too. hmm...?


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## spirit

Yeah if you wanna do virtual machines, 16GB is the way forward.  I have 16GB of RAM for that reason. 

A 2500K at 4.0GHz is going to be pretty fast.


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## wolfeking

yea. It would definitely kick the arse of the g530.


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## spirit

Yep it will pwn it, so I'd say go for it!


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## wolfeking

I am going to get the 2500k. I am just trying to figure out what else to get. with it. I guess it is all going to depend on how much the trumpet repair is.


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## spirit

I'd grab the 2500K, the liquid cooler you were on about, and maybe the extra RAM if you have the money to spare. 

Can you get a quote on the trumpet repair and find out how much it's going to cost, then subtract the cost from your budget so that you can figure out how much you have to spend on the PC?


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## byteninja2

The 3570k does run cooler, which means higher overclocks, and newer tech, so I would get a 3570k for that, and its only $20 more, but if you dont want to spend that, than the 2500 is still great. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504&Tpk=3570k

Also, that GPU really getting weak, still plays games okay, but not to good anymore. I would get a 6950 and unlock to 6970 if you have $200 to spend on a GPU.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102987

What monitor? You might want to upgrade that.


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## spirit

byteninja2 said:
			
		

> Also, that GPU really getting weak, still plays games okay, but not to good anymore. I would get a 6950 and unlock to 6970 if you have $200 to spend on a GPU.


The 4870 isn't a bad card, just not the best, but I agree an unlocked 6950 would be a good card. That, or a 7850 or 7870, or perhaps a GTX 660 when it comes... 



			
				byteninja2 said:
			
		

> The 3570k does run cooler, which means higher overclocks, and newer tech, so I would get a 3570k for that, and its only $20 more, but if you dont want to spend that, than the 2500 is still great.


I've heard that the Ivy Bridge chips do not overclock quite as well as the Sandy Bridge chips and apparently run hotter when overclocked - not sure if it's true or not but really the 2500K and 3570K perform very similarly and the 3570K really is not much quicker at all. The Sandy Bridge architecture should be more than enough for anybody for at least the next few years or so definitely.


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## wolfeking

I really do not think it is worth the extra $20. I am not going to try for the highest clocks availiable. I am more just going for 4 or so GHz and leave it be. 

As for a quote, the parts are around $200 and then labour. shouldn't be much over $300 total. But I am not really trying to do it all at once. As someone said, the 660 is coming out and that would probably be good. If I leave the GPU till July, then I can probably get a 680 or possibly 2x 670 and be great for the length of service.


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## wolfeking

just a update. My Z77 extreme 4 shipped from edison, NJ about 15 minutes ago, so 3 days and it will be back.


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## spirit

wolfeking said:
			
		

> I really do not think it is worth the extra $20. I am not going to try for the highest clocks availiable. I am more just going for 4 or so GHz and leave it be.


Yeah a 2500K @ 4.0GHz is going to be more than enough for you. The 3570K is not worth the extra 20 bucks, very minor performance gain.



			
				wolfeking said:
			
		

> the 660 is coming out and that would probably be good. If I leave the GPU till July, then I can probably get a 680 or possibly 2x 670 and be great for the length of service.


I've heard the 660 and possibly the rest of the Kepler cards are coming out Q3'12, so that is anywhere between the beginning of next month and the end of August. I'd wait until then and buy a 660 or whatever. 2x 670s is going to be more than adequate for you, even one 670 would probably do you good.



			
				wolfeking said:
			
		

> just a update. My Z77 extreme 4 shipped from edison, NJ about 15 minutes ago, so 3 days and it will be back.


That's good news! You should have a very nice gaming rig by the end of it. 

Now all I need to do for mine is buy a graphics card. :/ Like you, I think I'm going to wait for 660 and see what it brings to the table.


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## claptonman

Agreed with the CPU over a new GPU. Your G530 would limit a 6950 big time, and a 4870 is not all that bad. Could easily get ultra settings on CoD with that. I got close to that with my frickin 4670 AGP on my old build. But I wouldn't spend the money on a second one, even at $65.


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## FuryRosewood

SSD. Probably will yeild the best for responsiveness in the system, no one seems to have mentioned this yet. OCZ or something...cheap


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## spirit

FuryRosewood said:


> SSD. Probably will yeild the best for responsiveness in the system, no one seems to have mentioned this yet. OCZ or something...cheap



I agree an SSD would be good, but I think he wants to improve his performance in games, in which case a more powerful CPU and GPU would be what he needs. There isn't much difference between gaming on a HDD vs an SSD, but I agree, for general responsiveness an SSD is the key. I like the Crucial M4 myself, but there are other good ones too. Maybe an upgrade for you down the line, Wolfe?


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## wolfeking

not getting an SSD for personal reasons. I got a good HDD, and I can always get another and be good.


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## FuryRosewood

Reasoning? I thought myself they were smoke and mirrors, but nothing ive dropped in a machine before has made such a dramatic change in how my desktop responds.

and vista:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lR0XoHFU6Y

Watch that, saying there Isn't much of a difference in gaming, is kinda off, in wow alone, i notice all dungeons load far faster for me than anyone else, i start moving before anyone else does and can get started before their even loaded.


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## wolfeking

reasoning. 
1. Size. 
-Too small in the price range 
2. Price 
- Why in the world would I spend $1 or more per GB to have faster loading when I can have all the speed I need for $.09 per GB or less. And on top of that you NEED windows 7 to use an SSD to its top, and I am not going to go for that. 
3. Smoke and mirrors. 
- Like it or not, the speed is not needed. Games are not going to be on one if I use one, thus I will not see a improvement. You might argue it all you want, but I am not going to go for one. If I am going to spend 80+ dollars in storage space it is going to be a heck of a lot bigger than 60 GB and its going to be mechanical.


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## byteninja2

Oh, get windows 7, or Windows 8! XP is pretty awful now, and I'm not saying that out of stupidness, I was using it for a year on my lappy and a week on my desktop, it was terrible.


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## wolfeking

you do not know how to use it right if you think its horrid, but that is besides the point. I am not using XP, and the fact that you assume that is interesting. I am using Vista Ultimate and 2000 Pro, and I am not upgrading them for at least 10 years.


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## byteninja2

Actually, xp is horrid for gaming, because if issues with newer tech, and steam loads slow even with a very fast pc on xp. If you browse the web only, it should be fine. Andni do know how to use it, I have had xp pcs for the last 6 years.


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## wolfeking

STEAM loads in seconds on a 5400 ROM drive running a 2 year old install of XP pro on my M90. And it will support up to DX9 and many games can be made to work on it. STOP DERAILING MY THREAD, but while we are at it, your knowledgeless about it. Heck I run MW3 on windows 2000 and have no a dang problem besides the once in a while frame drop but that is from old drivers. 

I am using 2000 and Vista. They both are staying, and no SSD is going to mess it up. SO STFU please.


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## byteninja2

One more thing, up to dx 9?! Ha ha! Because of old drive issues!? Exactly!


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## wolfeking

driver. I am not a damn programmer for Nvidia or Dell or ATI. and it does not really matter because that it still gets ~30 FPS and is mainly stable. 

again, If it does not go with the thread shut it. your derailing.


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## Russ88765

Hey I noticed in your signature you are sporting a Seagate 1tb drive. Would you be opposed to a Momentus HD/SSD hybrid drive as a middle ground? Great price for good speed and they do offer them with a good deal of space too. Sorry if that derails at all, just wanted to throw an idea out there since you appear to have no issues with Seagate.


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## wolfeking

actually that does not derail at all. Your trying to help. 

Really I do not think I need anything over the 1TB I have. If I need more speed I can always get another one and put them in RAID 1. But if I do that, then I will still have to reload my OS.


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## byteninja2

Sorry for derailing. 1 TB is a lot. I can't imagine to many people using more, but if you wanted to, I would put them in raid 0+1.


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## wolfeking

I have already used 87% of my 1 TB drive. Its almost full. I do do more than just games ya know. 

but I do not think I will do 0+1 as yall are on about speed and that needs at least 3 dives. I can get a single 3TB drive cheaper than getting another 2 1TB for 0+1.


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## byteninja2

Oh, are you serious? That's a lot of storage.


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## wolfeking

I am serious. and its not really that much space for some people. Especially if they back up everything and keep everything like I do.


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## spirit

wolfeking said:


> but I do not think I will do 0+1 as yall are on about speed and that needs at least 3 dives. I can get a single 3TB drive cheaper than getting another 2 1TB for 0+1.


Yeah I'm with Wolfe here. I don't like RAID-0 and really the speed difference between a single fast HDD and two in RAID-0 is negligible, and the drives are mire likely to fail in RAID-0 and overall it's just more expensive. I know byteninja is on about RAID 0+1 but I'd still just get a single large drive.

Just upgrade the CPU and possibly the RAM first and then be done with it for a while. Graphics card is next on the upgrade list most likely but a 4870 should be OK for the time being.


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## wolfeking

yea. Isn't the HD4870 just a older version of the HD6790? Same core count, DDR5 and 256 bit.

But either way, The CPU is going first. RAM is going in there too. and maybe a better PSU too.


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## FuryRosewood

seagate momentus xt drives are 750gb with a 8gb ssd cache on them, the longer their used, the faster they get, since you arent planning on upgrading the drives, id go that route. however id wait a while on them as their still 150 bucks a piece for each, and you wont see massive improvements till you use them more and more, their a learning drive per say.

and unless the gpu money is burning a hole in your pocket...wait on the midrange stuff coming for the green team, if its anything like the 670, id say the 660 should be awesome value for money.


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## wolfeking

I think I am just staying with the 1TB drive now, and probably offloading a lot of my just statistical data and such over to the 5400 RPM 640 GB lappy drive that is just laying around right now. That would free up a lot of space since none of that data really needs speed to do its thing. 

And GPU wise, I do not know. I am nearly maxing or maxing everything I own currently at at least 30 frames in 2000 and well over 40 frames in Vista (DX10 and better drivers I rekon). I was thinking of getting BF3 just to play the single player, but that needs quite a bit more to run. Probably a 6870 or something. But I do not want to invest now and just need to run and get something better in 2 months. I do have x8/x8 SLI and CF, but anything much above the 6870 is going to need a PSU. CF will need a new PSU anyway, cause I only got 1 8pin and 1 6pin PCIe power cable. 
I will probably wait at least another month before messing with the GPU though.


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## Russ88765

6850 sure surprised me. Usually mine doesn't get much higher than 60c during gaming, and it does have overclocking potential for those pain-to-run games like BF3. It probably has a lot to do with huge fans in a big case that always feels cool to the touch. If you plan to get BF3, I would invest in a card that supports dx11 for sure. Maybe you could ask about trading it in for something more suited to the task?


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## wolfeking

trading it in? What do you mean?


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## Russ88765

Well you mentioned an interest in a 6850, so perhaps you could trade in your 4870 towards a 6850 somewhere. Worst case scenario you'd get a cheaper card.


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## wolfeking

I do not think that is even possible. 

But I do not know. MW3 is not going to dictate what I do. That is for sure, cause it will just end up in yet another 10+ Gb in downloads for the updates and such.


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## wolfeking

okay. 6 days to think this out. 

2500k. Can do. Or not. I do not know. The 2570k is also out there. Is it worth it to have PCIe 3.0? My board supports it. but I do not know. 

Okay, coolers. I have been looking around and I like the way that the H series attaches to the board, seems less complicated that the antec coolers. Okay, so is it worth it to get a H100? or would a H70 core be good? I got 2 fans already in the case for either. 

Anything else?


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## spirit

wolfeking said:
			
		

> 2500k. Can do. Or not. I do not know. The 2570k is also out there. Is it worth it to have PCIe 3.0? My board supports it. but I do not know.


I think you mean 3570K don't you? Anyhow, if the 3570K isn't much more than the 2500K, then I'd say get it, but if the 3570K is more expensive by a significant margin, then stick to a 2500K. There is virtually no performance difference between the two and they both overclock as well as each other, but the 2500K is still a slightly better overclocker than the 3570K.

Is it worth having PCI Express 3.0? Depends. If you're going to stick with a Radeon 4870, then no, but if you're going to upgrade to something newer in the future which uses PCI Express 3.0, then yes it probably is. Bear in mind though that again, there is virtually no difference between PCI Express 2.0 and 3.0.



			
				wolfeking said:
			
		

> Okay, coolers. I have been looking around and I like the way that the H series attaches to the board, seems less complicated that the antec coolers. Okay, so is it worth it to get a H100? or would a H70 core be good? I got 2 fans already in the case for either.


An H70 would be fine and you'll be able to overclock quite a long way using one of those. I'd honestly save the money and get the H70.


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## wolfeking

its $20 more. That's like a large pizza or something. Not much at all. 

Yea, thats what I meant. Guess I should not have stopped looking at the keyboard. :/ 

I am upgrading, but I do not know what to. Probably a GTX670 or maybe a 5970, maybe go 3 way CF and do a 5970/5870. Anyway I go, I will need to go up on the PSU. There was a neat one I was looking at earlier that was sleeved and modular. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341053 is it. 

I would sleeve it myself, but I haven't an idea where to get the tubes to do it with, or like a kit.


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## spirit

If the 3570K is only 20 bucks more, I'd say go for it.

I have a 5870 myself, fantastic card. Still very fast and maxxes everything out at 1080p without an issue. Two 5870s in CF or a single 5970 would be even better though. Just make sure you have enough room in your case, the 5870 is a pretty long card (10.5") and the 5970 even longer. I only just got the 5870 to fit in my case (Lexa S), but you should be OK with your HAF.

If have any questions about the 5870 send me a PM and I'll try and answer.


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## wolfeking

I will not have any issues fitting it in there. With the top 3.5" cage removed I have over a foot to work with. closer to 15" I think. 

My main thing is that I may not have enough cable for the PCIe power with a bigger card. The 4870 has them stretched pretty tight. If it were to move up top or to the rear farther back then I would have to run the cables up front and go crazy from non managed cables.

Isn't the 5870 closer to the 6970 than the 6870? 1600 SP 256 bit IIRC. Which would put it on top of the 6970.


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## spirit

You should be fine with 15 inches of room in your case. 

I had the same problem with power cables with my 5870, I had to rearrange my cable management so that it allowed my cables to be longer and reach the card, you may need to do the same. I have an OCZ power supply and my cables are all long enough, so you should also be fine.

The 5870 is a bit slower than a 6970 but is faster than a 6870. I'd say it was probably a little bit closer to 6870 performance than 6970 performance but don't let that you put you off getting a 5870. They're so cheap second hand these days you could get two 5870s for fairly cheap and two of them will outrun a 6970 by a significant margin, and probably cost about the same.


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## wolfeking

a 5870 is $180 and the 6970 is $250. If it is not that much better than a 6870, then I will go to a nvidia card and be done with it. 
And your sure about that? It should at most be about 12% worse than the 6970.


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## wolfeking

okay, Got it pinned down I think. or maybe not. 

2500k and H70 now. 

Next up: Better build. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119257 
- It looks clean. 18.4" of room for graphics, and more importantly has that cover for the PSU to clean up the look. OCD quenched!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341053
- Sleeved. 1000 watts of power for anything I add in the future. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500242
- Best out without wasting money, yes? 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220609 
- memory. What more to be said? 

Okay, so going to throw a HDD in and use the OCZ I have with the 4870, H61de/s3 and G530, and the 8GB in the 912 and use it for god knows what, but I will find something to do with it. 

Hows it look vista?


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## spirit

wolfeking said:


> a 5870 is $180 and the 6970 is $250. If it is not that much better than a 6870, then I will go to a nvidia card and be done with it.
> And your sure about that? It should at most be about 12% worse than the 6970.


You can see the difference between a 6870 and a 5870 here http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/511?vs=540 the 5870 is the faster card but it's not much faster. The difference between two 5870s and one 6970 is huge, with the CrossFire 5870s being over twice as fast as a single 6970 in some cases http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/300?vs=290 I didn't mean that one 5870 would be faster than one 6970, one 6970 would eat a single 5870 for breakfast lol.  



wolfeking said:


> okay, Got it pinned down I think. or maybe not.
> Hows it look vista?


OK Wolfe, it all looks pretty good. The case is good but pretty expensive, but if you're concerned about room, then that case is for you. It will fit just about any card. I have not come across a card which is over 12" long, so a case with almost 18.5" room to hold a card is going to give you a lot of clearance.

1000W seems fine for the 670. You likely don't need 1000W to run just one, but if you want to another in the future you won't need to upgrade your power supply. Zotac are not a bad brand, but they're not really the best. This MSI GTX 670 is 10 bucks more and seems good http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127675 it's not compulsory you get the MSI, just a suggestion. Underneath they're the same card.

Patriot's memory is good, go ahead and get that kit.


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## wolfeking

The only reason I am going with that supply is because it is sleeved. If they had one smaller watts then I would get it. 

And I was just showing the parts. I will pick brands later. 

The CM HAF XM is one of the best though. Its the midtower of the HAF x. And it is not really that much considering the cases in others lineups I was looking at for about the same does not even have cable management, much less the black innards.


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## claptonman

I'd stick with standard 1.5v memory. Anything higher is out of JEDEC standard voltage, basically overclocking-level voltage.


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## wolfeking

I am sticking with that ram for a couple of reasons. I already have a 8GB set of it, it is solid, it will run on 1.5 @ 1600-9-9-9-24, and its cheaper than the rest. 
If it is really that big of a problem, try finding some better RAM that does not have a cooler that sticks up real big. I know hyperx fits, but its $30 more than the gamer 2.


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## spirit

wolfeking said:


> I am sticking with that ram for a couple of reasons. I already have a 8GB set of it, it is solid, it will run on 1.5 @ 1600-9-9-9-24, and its cheaper than the rest.
> If it is really that big of a problem, try finding some better RAM that does not have a cooler that sticks up real big. I know hyperx fits, but its $30 more than the gamer 2.



Stick with the Patriot RAM, it's good stuff.

Your other choices are all good too, I'd say go ahead and buy it all when you are ready.


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## byteninja2

Looks great, but why 16 Gigs of ram?


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## spirit

byteninja2 said:


> Looks great, but why 16 Gigs of ram?



Wolfe wants to run VMs, and 16GB is a nice amount to have.


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## wolfeking

byteninja2 said:


> Looks great, but why 16 Gigs of ram?


because its cheap. Because its my system and I can build and rebuild it any dang way I wish. And because I really hate having open slots with nothing in them.


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## byteninja2

wolfeking said:


> because its cheap. Because its my system and I can build and rebuild it any dang way I wish. And because I really hate having open slots with nothing in them.



I know its your system and you can rebuild any way you wish, cheese, wolfe. But, I know, I dont like open slots, and 16 gb sounds cooler


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## wolfeking

I do not care how it sounds. It can sound like a jap choking on an eggroll for all I care. I am just going to get it. I do not need a reason.


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## byteninja2

Oh cheese, wolfe, you are acting like a cheese hole.


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## wolfeking

this conversation was just fine between Vista, Claptonman and I. Your input was not necessary at all. If you had freaking read the thread instead of just the last posts then you would know why. Its on page 2 iirc. 
Make condescending moves and I will treat you in a condescending manor.


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## byteninja2

Cheese, wolfe, I used to look up on you, than I figured out you were a cheese hole. Im just trying to help.


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## wolfeking

CAN IT WITH THE CHEESE. 

And it is not just you. I have about had it with the stupid questions and bad advice around here. Its getting real dang old real dang quick. 

If you are trying to help, then try actually saying something helpful instead of asking questions that were already answered on page 1. 



wolfeking said:


> And I probably am going to get the extra memory just to have it. I have not a clue what I can do to use 16GB but its there if necessary, right?





vistakid10 said:


> 16GB is good for stuff like virtual machines and stuff that eat RAM, I don't know if you use VMs or not though? Anyway, it's there if you need it as you said.





wolfeking said:


> And I will probably do a VM of React OS and A few Linuxes to see what I can find to Play nice with AMD cards and finish updating the guide. So at most maybe 8GB of RAM to that, leaving 12 for other things.





vistakid10 said:


> Yeah if you wanna do virtual machines, 16GB is the way forward.  I have 16GB of RAM for that reason.


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## byteninja2

wolfeking said:


> CAN IT WITH THE CHEESE.
> 
> And it is not just you. I have about had it with the stupid questions and bad advice around here. Its getting real dang old real dang quick.
> 
> If you are trying to help, then try actually saying something helpful instead of asking questions that were already answered on page 1.



Alright, Im genuinely sorry. *Handshake*


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## wolfeking

Okay, I could not fetch anything this month, I had other things to get that I did not think I needed so fast. Anyway, I really need some advice on a list to get things in july. I am going to put a limit budget of 750 as I need to save money for Band fees and so other things, 250 should cover it, should. 

Anyway, what i need are: 
2 GPUs (maybe 1) 
3570k
cooler 
a cheap case 
some RAM (DDR3, don't go over 1066 unless it is priced cheaper, will explain below) 
A PSU, modular and plenty powerful, maybe 750 or greater. 
SATA 2 SSD around 80GB or more

okay, my plan is to keep the price down where possible. I am assembling my Celeron and a Nvidia GPU into a FAH machine. I was thinking maybe a 9800GX2 or something like that. really anything that can run on my OCZ600 watt. It will be running on a H61 motherboard that only supports up to 1066 RAM, so thats why I don't want to spend much on it. Running XP on a 80GB Hatachi hard drive.  
Updating current setup to a 3570k and better GPU, thinking the best I can get without going over budget.


----------



## spirit

So hang on you're wanting to build an entirely new system and use your current desktop exclusively for folding, right?


----------



## wolfeking

no. I want to use my backup board, and the Celeron and OCZ supply with a Nvidia card to fold. And update my current system to 3570k and better stuff. 
Wait, I am confusing me here, let me try again. 

System FAH
needs: 
Case (cheap ATX) 
RAM (maxes at 1066 speeds) 
GPU (Nvidia with CUDA) 

Has: 
CPU (G530)
motherboard (H61DE/S3) 
cooler (stock to the CPU) 
PSU (modstream pro 600 watt) 
HDD (80 GB Hatachi 7200 RPM) 
OS (XP SP3) 

system CM1
Needs: 
3570k
cooler 
maybe updated GPU 
PSU (modular is must, 750 watts is wanted) 

Has: 
Case (HAF 912) 
RAM (DDR3-1600 1.6 volts) 
Motherboard (Z77 extreme 4) 
Hard drive (1TB Seagate) 
DVD drive (will use to load windows to new system) 

And need a 80+ GB SSD for the D630 to keep it running cooler. I am pulling its 7200 ROM for teh FAH machine.


----------



## spirit

Ah ok sorry my bad, I see now. I'm tired as hell so I'm off to bed now, but I'll give you some advice/thoughts tomorrow.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, so here is what I am looking at as of now. 

FAH: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820576001
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817812011
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811233073
and possibly a GTX460 or the like. 

CM1: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139029 ?

and got http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166034 on the list too. Mainly so I can move the computers around and only have to worry about the big 25' ethernet cable around. 

Everything listed here cost 498.42 so that leaves 251.58 for graphics cards. A GTX460 to fold would be ~$120. So I could very well get a GTX560ti or a GTX480 and keep the 4870 till august and get a GTX670 then.  

okay, looking at
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130759
or 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130623


----------



## byteninja2

What is fah and cm1?
Edit: fah is [email protected], right? You could also use it for bitcoins. What is cm? Is that your build?


----------



## wolfeking

FAH= folding at home. CM1 means Cooler Master 1. It means what system from post #71 that the parts go to.


----------



## jonnyp11

anandtech is down right now so i can't get numbers for the gpus, but i'd think a 560ti wouldn't be far behind a 480 since the 560 beats the 470, and a 560ti would be easier to get a second of in a year or so to sli with, which is why i'd think about taking it, but the higher vram and better performance i think the 480 would have would make me want it. tough choice but i think 480 might be the better.


----------



## wolfeking

byteninja2 said:


> What is fah and cm1?
> Edit: fah is [email protected], right? You could also use it for bitcoins. What is cm? Is that your build?


As said FAH is folding at Home.  Not using it for bitcoins, mining is useless if you want to do it yourself. CF6990s would own everything and still net you very little yourself. 
CM as said is Cooler Master 1. that is what I call my machine. Its simplier that way.  Just like the D630 is "small dell" and the M90 is "big dell". Its easier that way. 



jonnyp11 said:


> anandtech is down right now so i can't get numbers for the gpus, but i'd think a 560ti wouldn't be far behind a 480 since the 560 beats the 470, and a 560ti would be easier to get a second of in a year or so to sli with, which is why i'd think about taking it, but the higher vram and better performance i think the 480 would have would make me want it. tough choice but i think 480 might be the better.


the 480 is 38% better at Memory bandwidth and 28% better at pixel rate (resolution filling basically) the 560ti is 47% less power hungry and 38% better at texture filtering. I am mainly looking to fold on it, so none of this helps me. I think the 480 would be stronger at that because of more cores. But just guessing.


----------



## spirit

OK Wolfe here are my thoughts.

The FAH system looks like an OK low-end build. Are you going to get another one of those 2GB modules to make 4GB? I think you should really, because then you'd be running in dual-channel and if you ever upgraded to a newer operating system in the future, 4GB wouid be better. I know XP can only use around 3.25GB of RAM, but I'd say get another 2GB DIMM. 

The case and the SATA drive bay adapter looks fine too. 

Folding runs better on NVIDIA cards than it does on ATI/AMD cards doesn't it? If so, I'd say yeah a GTX 460 would be a good choice if you can get one cheap, or even a GTS 450. I used to have a GTS 450, it was a decent card for the money. 

The upgrades for the CM system look just fine to me. Great processor and cooler you've chosen there - if you want to overclock the 3570K it should be pretty easy. As far as graphics cards are concerned, the 480 is faster than a 560 Ti (see here http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/309?vs=330) but remember that it is longer (shouldn't be an issue for your case though) and sometimes it runs hotter, so make sure your case is sufficiently cooled which I'm sure it will be.


----------



## wolfeking

maybe I need to clear things up. If I get a card in July, it will be for folding only. I do not think it is worth it to stay on the low end if I can get something bigger. 

I will just run it in single channel mode. It will not affect the system at all, and I will not e able to use any more memory than that with a 1GB or 1280MB video card, and folding take little memory anyway. 

The AMD client does not work at all, and I have seen it from my 4870, and a couple of others say it don't work on the 6870 either. This makes me think that it is not AMD friendly, like Linux.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:
			
		

> If I get a card in July, it will be for folding only. I do not think it is worth it to stay on the low end if I can get something bigger.


OK then well grab a 460 or a 470 for folding on the FAH machine and then a 480 for your CM build.


----------



## wolfeking

I was thinking of a 670 for it latter on, in august. Either that, or a 580. I don't know, I am not going to see a lot of improvement over what I have because of the resolution. 

this is turning into another ... or .... or ... or ... or ... like the laptop thread.  

I am seriously rethinking the idea of the FAH dedicated machine unless it is winter time. Cause that would well over double the current heat output and cause my room to get even hotter (running both laptops and the Desktop @ 100% utilization of the processor with no cooling on it is 30*C in here, and mum won't turn the AC on!) 

if I go to a 3570k, and get a better card say a 670, would that run everything out no matter what it is maxxed at 720p? That would put the total cost @ $660 and hopefully cut temps a bit.


----------



## Perkomate

A 670 will run anything at anywhere up to 1440p. Go for it.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:
			
		

> if I go to a 3570k, and get a better card say a 670, would that run everything out no matter what it is maxxed at 720p? That would put the total cost @ $660 and hopefully cut temps a bit.


Yep a 670 will pretty much max any game out. I'm still maxxing out some of the latest games at 1080p on my HD 5870 and that's a card released 2 and a half years ago. The 670 is much faster and newer than the 5870, so it should easily be able to max anything out. The 3570K is a great processor too, so definitely get that and then overclock it if you want more performance out of it.



			
				wolfeking said:
			
		

> this is turning into another ... or .... or ... or ... or ... like the laptop thread.


I know... but I'd say ditch the FAH machine if you think it's going to get hot in your room (nothing worse than living in a hot room for most of the day) and then just build a great machine with a 3570K and a 670 and use that for everything, if that's possible.


----------



## byteninja2

My advice, sorry it's late.

PSU: Semi modular, I don't know about that, if you want it, okay, but you will probably still have a couple extra cables. Also, 650w is enough for even a 3930 and 670 sli, so that's all you need. But, if you feel like your okay with spending $20 more than a 750 for watts you probably won't need, go with it.

CPU/Cooler: Looks good.


GPU: Get a 570, it's on sale for $250 at newegg I think. Also, do NOT get a 580 over a 670! I told you that before, the 680 is double and a half better than 580, and the 670 is only like 5 percent worse than a 680.


----------



## wolfeking

Perkomate said:


> A 670 will run anything at anywhere up to 1440p. Go for it.


well, I am running 720p as I very well will be for quite a while. But if it will run that much it should be too much for me. :/


vistakid10 said:


> Yep a 670 will pretty much max any game out. I'm still maxxing out some of the latest games at 1080p on my HD 5870 and that's a card released 2 and a half years ago. The 670 is much faster and newer than the 5870, so it should easily be able to max anything out. The 3570K is a great processor too, so definitely get that and then overclock it if you want more performance out of it.
> 
> 
> I know... but I'd say ditch the FAH machine if you think it's going to get hot in your room (nothing worse than living in a hot room for most of the day) and then just build a great machine with a 3570K and a 670 and use that for everything, if that's possible.


I could use it for everything, and be good. But Also, I could very well use a lot less. I don't know. 



byteninja2 said:


> My advice, sorry it's late.
> 
> PSU: Semi modular, I don't know about that, if you want it, okay, but you will probably still have a couple extra cables. Also, 650w is enough for even a 3930 and 670 sli, so that's all you need. But, if you feel like your okay with spending $20 more than a 750 for watts you probably won't need, go with it.


1. Power requirements skyrocket while overclocking. 
2. If you feel safe putting 2 670s on a 650, go right ahead. they use 247 watts at full load, so assume 2 way SLI and a 25000k at stock you are pulling 589 watts. now when you add your RAM, CD drive and hard drives and you have 604 watts from what I am seeing. If you want to run your PSU within 50 watts of its output so be it, but you will not be having all the power you need within a few years due to capacitor aging. 



> CPU/Cooler: Looks good.


of coarse it does. It will not do what I want it to do, so it is execellent




> GPU: Get a 570, it's on sale for $250 at newegg I think.


no thanks. The 570 s old and power hungry. And will do nothing a 580 won't and it has more memory.



> Also, do NOT get a 580 over a 670! I told you that before, the 680 is double and a half better than 580, and the 670 is only like 5 percent worse than a 680.


you want to get a little more condecending? and where here in case I forgot, did I say I was going to get a 580?  The one I linked was a 560ti and a 480. 
Plus, look at it like this. The drivers are not the best for the 670. I could get one sure, but why buy a truck with a 460 and only a 100 CFM carb? makes no sense to me. Let them straiten out the drivers before you buy them.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, looking at a different route. More powerful CPU, and less powerful GPU. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102987
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065

but I am not really sure what I can do for now either. :/ I do like that going with the cheaper card I save ~100 on BF3 and Dirt 3 (they are still 59.99 yes?) so all together I am really only paying ~$80 for it.  And I can always get a card to just fold on later, yes? A 460 or something and stick it in the backup PCie x16 slot? or is that not doable, running a Nvidia and a AMD in the same system... I am not sure if that is possible.


----------



## spirit

Doubt you can run an NVIDIA and an AMD GPU in the same system. Drivers issue is the first problem. :/

You're only playing at 720p so a 6950 would be fine and for folding I'm guessing you want a powerful CPU right? Then go with the 2600K and overclock it. The 2600K overclocks just like the 2500K.


----------



## wolfeking

well I can fold fine from any intel CPU. I am folding on it right now. But I want it to work with CAD on it, the more cores the better, so HT might be useful.  But how far could I go on stock volts? I am thinking around 4.0Ghz should be plenty fine? 

the 6950 is a strong card yes? And it will run on 505 watts (600 minus CPU power)?


----------



## spirit

Yes the 6950 is a strong card, it's usually around the same speed or a bit faster than a 560 Ti in most cases. 

I'd say for CAD the 2600K would be a good choice. 4.0GHz sounds about right on stock volts too, you may be able to push it to 4.2GHz perhaps before you need rto up the voltage but be aware that it may become unstable.


----------



## wolfeking

well I want to keep it stock volts to #1 keep the heat down and #2 not have to go googleing the entire option list of the BIOS. Most of them options might as well be Japanese to me. 

But I think Its sorted now. I think.


----------



## spirit

A 4.0GHz overclock should be fine.

So are you going for the 2600K, a CM 212+ and a 6950 or a 560 Ti?


----------



## wolfeking

I am going for a 2600k, and a cooler, 212 is nice, but I am not sure.  I will probably figure out which card I want 10 minutes after I bought one. :/


----------



## spirit

If it's for folding I'd go for a 2GB 560 Ti, or just go for it and get a 670 if you can afford one.


----------



## wolfeking

Well I can not afford both a 670 and a 2600k i do not think. 

And info from the resident expert states that it is not worth it to fold on the GPU. 


			
				PM @ mycattmaxx said:
			
		

> A i7 even a i7 930 will out fold a 460.
> I'm cranked up to 975Mhz on my 460 and get 16-17ppd out of it.
> A i7 930 would do 22-25kppd roughly.
> The hyper-threading really kicks some ass.
> *A i7 2600k will out fold any current gpu.*
> Once they get some new folding cores for the kepler GTX we will see how well they can really do, but for now a cpu wins over the gpu.
> 
> I picked my GTX460 V2 because of price/ppd/power used.
> I could have spent more but I'm a cheap kinda guy.


----------



## spirit

Go for the 2600K and the 6950 then if the GPU doesn't really matter. The 6950 is usually faster than the 560 Ti.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, so from the budget, I still have ~220 left.  I got some other things I need to get, forgive my OT here, but I am just going to list them all out and Bookmark this page so I have the list when the time comes in 2 weeks. 

okay: so item  cost  budget 
-----  --------  860
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/marching-band/bach-1815-clamp-on-trumpet-cornet-lyre/467468   27.98  832.02
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/marching-band/bach-1815-clamp-on-trumpet-cornet-lyre   12.99   819.03
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/brass-instruments/selmer-tuning-slide-and-cork-grease  2.99  816.04
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/brass-instruments/blue-juice-valve-oil  7.98  808.06
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102987  199.99  608.07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070 299.99  308.08
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065 29.99  278.09 

okay, so narrowing it down to 200, what else can I do to make it better?


----------



## spirit

So you have 200 and want to make it better? I'd say go for a more powerful GPU if you can, but you may just want to save the money. A 2600K and a 6950 is a pretty good setup anyway, but a more powerful GPU would make it even better though. Even if you get something like a 7870.

I'm off now though so I'll give you a bit more advice/help tomorrow should you need it.


----------



## wolfeking

again, 720p. The 6950 is going to be fine. at a certain point all I will end up doing is spending for better cards that quite frankly will not make a bit of difference. The only thing I see seeing any difference are the two games it comes with. I am running at 60 Hz, so going above 60 FPS will not net anything than bragging rites. The only games I am not maxxing currently at 60 FPS that I have is Arma II and that is a CPU bottleneck and I am getting around 40 FPS at max anyway. 

I don't know. I got time, I can find somethings to do with it for a while and then update to see what is better.


----------



## MyCattMaxx

wolfeking said:


> Well I can not afford both a 670 and a 2600k i do not think.
> 
> And info from the resident expert states that it is not worth it to fold on the GPU.


I didn't say it wasn't worth it to fold on a gpu, I said a i7 2600k will make more ppd than a gpu can currently.
Once they recode a new core for kepler the game will change with the massive amount of cuda cores the kepler has.
I think it will be awhile before the cores are optimized for kepler but once they are it is going to get interesting.

Right now the 560ti is the most efficient folder ppd/watt followed by the 460 from all I have read over the last year or so, I went with the 460 because I am cheap and all my cash flow is going out right now until harvest time when some cash will flow back in.

I'd start without a gpu first and see what your i7 will do.
I was talking with someone with an i7 who said he doesn't get anywhere near the ppd he should, I don't know why.
Most of the OC folding forums is where I get the reports for ppd for the i7's


----------



## wolfeking

okay, I can spend 300 on an i7 and get more points than a $400 580. to me it is not worth it. And they have the exact info you gave me, so they can see you never actually said it is not worth it. 

Either way, I am never going to catch up to y'all unless I somehow came across 4 or 5 980x's equipped with SLI GTX590. Folding does not really help anyone anyway. If it did then stanford would build a couple of supercomputers and do it themselves, ja?  But I am not building just for it. Will I do it when I am at school and gone away and such. At least give my computer some use when I leave it on 24/7 anyway. 
The 2700k is better than a dedicated folding card. I do not see going into a 400 card just to use FAH on it, especially when it is going to take them forever to take advantage of it fully.  And that would really be the only point, cause for games and other such things I am not going to see much better than a 6870 or so on 720p.   

sorry, I am rambling. I am saying I will do well either way, but never as good as you.


----------



## Perkomate

2600K and Hyper 212 is an awesome combo, if that's what you're going for. I love my 212. The newegg links don't work for me. What case are you using?


----------



## wolfeking

*looks at box, then sig* HAF 912. It will fit, if not I am not opposed to removing the left panel permanently. 

I really want to get the 2600k as it is one of the best, I would do 3770k but it is out of stock and has been practically since release.  But yea.  What worries me is that I have a upper low end board and thus it probably will not OC well. 

And I am trying to figure out what I really want to get with it. I am not sure I need a new GPU just yet, as I am not going to see much better performance than what I get now because of my resolution. And I need new games as I have beat the ones I have time and time again other than MOH:Airborne and Arma II. 

I really need something to help with cable management outside the case as they are just horrid. 
was going to put a pic here but photobucket is not working right now.


----------



## Perkomate

had a brain fart and didn't see the sig.
The motherboard choice doesn't matter as much as some people make it out to. I mean, my board was cheap as chips and overclocks pretty damn well.


----------



## wolfeking

no, no, no. I could not think of the name. I had to look it up.  Sorry. 

I think it matters a little more than just being there with a compatible chipset. I think 87dtna was saying somewhere on here that his extreme4m was not stable overclocking or something like that. But we shall see.  I foresee googling a lot of the BIOS options.  I know I never found the RAM voltages. I tried to lower them to 8-8-8-24 and 8-9-8-24 and neither would boot, and I could not find it to up the volts to see if it helped. And I bet that the CPU is going to be hard to find also.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, so I shut it down and booted into the BIOS and looked around. I have not a clue what most of  them are, but I found the RAM voltage, Don't know why I did not see it before. I set the voltage down to 1.5 volts on it, and seems to be stable. Not gamed on it yet though.   Does anyone know if there is a benchmark or something similar that targets RAM that I could use to test if it is stable at 1.5 (reduced from 1.65)? timings are still 9-9-9-24, but I will play with that later.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, so I think I got it narrowed pretty well right now. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220619
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220673 (x2) 

and for cooling either a loop setup like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106183 or the H100 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181017 

Which puts me (using the loop as a place holder for budget) at $555.  After that, I will go to a 1080p monitor, maybe 1440p and 680SLI. Going one 680 at a time though as I will need a better supply to run both.


----------



## spirit

All looks good Wolfe, I'd choose the H100 myself. 680 SLI sounds good for 1440p too.


----------



## wolfeking

Well I do not know for sure if I want 1440p. It looks like you need a pretty big monitor to get 1440p. 1080p seems to not go very small either. What I need is a 22" 1440p or 17" 1080p, and I don't think I can get them that small. So I will loose detail from what I am used to. 

But may I ask why the H100?


----------



## spirit

The H100 is just cheaper, easier to fit and doesn't take up 5.25" drive bays in the front of your case. It's a great cooler too. 

Why do you need a 17" 1080p or a 22" 1440p? Why not get a 24" 1080p or 1920x1200?


----------



## wolfeking

well, I am spending money on it, so I want to match the DPI of my M90 cause the picture quality is amazing.  But to get 130 DPI it would have to be a 17" 1080p (about 1% off to the low end)  or 22" 1440p (was slightly over at 133 DPI iirc).  I definately can not go very big at any point as I only have 20.5" laterally to fit it in. the 19" I have now is about 3.25" smaller than the space. 

And for the cooler I figured if I go to the loop setup then I could easily upgrade to a full loop on the GPUs, chipset, CPU, mosfets, HDDs, and RAM later on, a little at a time. But again, If I go for the H100, then I can get a monitor and 680 august, a 680 September and a full water cooler in October probably. :/ I don't know, either way will run fine.


----------



## spirit

Ah yeah OK I see your issue with space and the monitors. Your current 19" is 720p isn't it?

I also see why you'd want a full loop, but I'd go for the H100 and then grab a monitor and a 680 in a couple of month's time. You may use for the 680 and find that you don't even really need to water-cool it.


----------



## wolfeking

It is 720p (well 1366*768 don't see why that is 720p but it is). And really the picture is lacking. Everything is so big. 

Really I do not need to water cool at all. I want to water cool it. Plus I can probably OC the heck out of it then. Like 1200 core and 5000 MHZ CPU and 2000MHz or the like on the RAM. Don't really see how I would benefit from it, but I would still do it.


----------



## spirit

Fair enough. I'd only bother water-cooling the CPU myself, but it's your money.


----------



## wolfeking

That's what worries me. I put a lot of stuff ahead of me and probably get too in over my head. I have done it bunches before.  Reference: Truck don't start. Check battery. check starter. Rebuild engine.  still don't start. Looks at the one parts left, solenoid, replaces it, starts right up. :I 

I will look around, but I will probably never need anything above a 212+, but I will get a H series anyway most likely.


----------



## spirit

Yeah don't spend money on stuff you don't need. Even something like an H50 or an H70 would be fine. 

If you only want to overclock on stock voltages and up to around 4.0GHz, then you wouldn't really need to water cool at all, something like a 212+ would be fine.


----------



## wolfeking

Well I am not sure I can get out of stock volts on this board anyway. I tried overclocking earlier and even just 102*24 (2448 MHz) would not boot, even at 1.50 volts. :I But it will run 1.05 volts at 100*24. 

I may be worrying about nothing, but I assume that if I can't do it now, it won't work later either.    

I will see where it goes, but even at stock speeds a water loop like the H100 would drop the temps closer to room temp, yes?


----------



## spirit

Yep at stock speeds/voltages water-cooling would reduce the temperature a lot. 

If you're going to be using the i7 with the Z77 board, then overclocking will be a lot easier. Are you currently trying to overclock on your H61 board?


----------



## wolfeking

no. On the extreme4. There is no overclocking other than the built in GPU on a H61. The chipset does not support it.


----------



## spirit

Yeah I thought H61 didn't support CPU overclocking. So your Z77 Extreme4 is not a great board for overclocking then, I gather?


----------



## wolfeking

I don't know if it is the board or the CPU, but there are people on here that have a sandy bridge at 108 and stable, so thinking it is the board.  I will get the CPU first and see how it does, but I may have to get a P67 board from Gigabyte or EVGA.


----------



## spirit

Your trying to overclock a Celeron right? The 3570K should overclock a hell of a lot better than a Celeron does.


----------



## wolfeking

right. And the fact it is a celeron has little if anything to do with teh voltage control. It should be able to hold a bit above 102. 110 should be fairly stable, as little OC as that is. But 1.5 volts @ 102 and still not stable lends me to say the board is not great. I could very well lower the multi, but I think even then it is not going to be stable. 

2570k would Oc better yes. But I am not using a 3570k, if anything I am going with the 2600k. But I think I am also going to a p67, as it would run better with them. I can easily sell my Extreme 4 to cover the cost. 

Let me rephrase this. I bought a cheap board. there is no way around that. Cheap stuff sucks.


----------



## spirit

Sorry my bad, I forgot you were going for a 2600K. A 2600K and a P67 board should be fine for overclocking. Celerons aren't really for overclocking. :/


----------



## wolfeking

only the ones based on Sandy bridge. They used to be the best out there for OC. 

I'm sorry, there is a lot running through my head and I am getting hard to follow.  
Okay, so newegg is limited on the P67 front and it looks like the ASRock Fatality 1 professional is the only one that fits.  Maybe there is something else out there.

mobo must have 

 multiple PCIe x16 ports 
 PS2 keyboard and mouse ports (explaining below). Not a combined port either. 
 Debug LED 
 UEFI BIOS (I intend to go to a RAID array of 3TB drives) 
I prefer it to have

 black or red in colour. Combinations are okay. 
 heatsinks on mosfets 
 ATA100 and Floppy ports. 
 
I want it to have both PS2 ports and not a combined port because I am trying to get into using reactOS and its current build has very limited USB support. I have tried the combined ports with a splitter and it is spotty at best. 

okay, so I am now looking at:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157240 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220673 (x2) 
and a cooler. still debating between air and water.  Also debating voyagerfan's 6870 or just waiting and getting the 670/680.


----------



## spirit

I like the look of the Fatal1ty board, that looks like a pretty good board to me. I don't think you'll find any other P67 boards with two separate PS/2 ports, most boards either don't have them at all or these days or they're combined.

I'd go for air cooling or maybe an H50 if you're not intending to overclock massively. Don't spend your money on stuff you don't need.


----------



## wolfeking

I love the look of it too. And I notice the lack of PS2 everywhere these days. Getting hard to find a keyboard or mouse to fit them too. :/ but I can make due, think I got a few in the closet that would work. 

any advice as far as the 6870 or wait? I know P67 will not allow HD3000, but should I go for something better than the 4870 or save it for a while?


----------



## spirit

I'd stick with your 4870 for a while and then when you have the money go for something better. I can't remember which card you were looking to go with originally.


----------



## wolfeking

I have changed my mind so freaking much I don't remember. I know I have looked at the 480, 6950, 6870, 670, 680, and 580. I was originally back in the day (january I think) I was going to go with 580 SLI, but I don't know now. I would think either a 6950 CF or 670 non SLI. Be about the same price either way. But again, I am on a limited resolution currently, and I am very picky so I don't know what I will do when I go to upgrade the monitor. Probably going to get a better case eventually too. I like the 912, but it is so small. eh, but that will be left for later.  

okay, so i will stick to the 4870 and still be execellent for what I do. gaming my CPU is the limit right now anyway. I was getting 30FPS on MOH with FAH running and high 50s with FAH off. So a 2600k should help some. I know it will help with ArmaII as it recommends a i5 iirc.


----------



## spirit

I'd just go for a 670 if you can afford it. By the time you buy anyway, the 660 may finally be here, so maybe that would be a good choice?


----------



## wolfeking

I don't know. First up is the processor. See how it goes. Then I will look farther.


----------



## spirit

Well it looks like you have a plan of sort now. You should a massive difference between the G530 and the 2600K.


----------



## wolfeking

well, they will both do the same thing. Just a row boat vs a Jetplane. Takes a while to get to england in a rowboat though. lol. 
I think I will like it though. not having to wait so long to do things.


----------



## spirit

The i7 should be faster at pretty much everything, should be a lot better for gaming too. You may not even need to upgrade your video card for a while once you've got the 2600K.


----------



## wolfeking

I doubt that. the 4870 is basically a 6790 on the 55nm scale. Its pretty low range today. And sucks power and creates oh so much heat. 

But I do think the i7 will beat it in everything.


----------



## spirit

Yeah I know a 4870 isn't a great card, but you may notice with the i7 your games run faster.

I actually think for 720p a 6870 would be fine to be perfectly honest, but if you want to upgrade to 1080p or 1440p later, it would probably be wise to buy something like a 670 or a 7950 when you replace the 4870.


----------



## wolfeking

I know I will go the Nvidia route. But I don't really know right now what I will get. I know for sure I am not upgrading the monitor for a bit. I need to get a bigger desk first to hold it and the TV too.  

I think all I am going to get this coming up month is the 2600k or 3570k and a cooler. See also other issues croping up with my laptops. *rage face here*


----------



## spirit

If you want to do CAD and such like on your desktop, go for the 2600K.


----------



## wolfeking

see also my laptop thread. I might not have enough. and is HT only a 20% increase. So at 4GHz the 2600 would meet a 3570k @ 4.8Ghz. That is a very possible OC, yes?


----------



## spirit

3570K @ 4.8GHz? On air that's pushing it, on a liquid cooler or something like an H100 it would probably be just possible. For some reason, Ivy CPUs run hotter than Sandys when overclocked.


----------



## wolfeking

well, 2500k or whatever. ill have to see.


----------



## spirit

I reckon you should be able to get 4.5GHz on the H100 with the 2600K or the 3570K. There's not going to be an awful lot of difference between 4.5GHz and 4.8GHz though.


----------



## wolfeking

I am definately not getting a H100. I am 99% sure I am gunna have to replace my god dang laptop too. So it is going to be a processor only and that. Cooler to come later. 

The idea was that a 2500k at 4.8 should match the 2600k at 4.0 because HT adds 20% and 2% of 4000 is 800, so 4.8, yes?


----------



## spirit

Yeah theoretically a 2500K at 4.8GHz would match a 2600K at 4.0, but remember that the 2600K has hyper-threading, and no matter how far you overclock the 2500K, it's never gonna have 8 threads, so in multi-threaded applications the i7 will always come out on top.

I had board instabilities with my 2500K at around 4.5GHz using the cooler in my signature. the PC would boot, die, and then start up again. Removing/lowering the overclock to 4.3 seemed to sort it. I'm sure with better cooling you could get 4.5GHz with no problems, but my cooler only cost £20.


----------



## wolfeking

well I don't think blender is going to show a heck of a lot difference with the two. It should be more GPU based when rendering anyway. 

I really do not know what to do, as as soon as I get it just where I want it something will break anyway. I know how life works. :I


----------



## spirit

Oh right if you're going to be using Blender just pick up a 3570K. Nothing should break if you pick decent components and make sure you don't damage them.


----------



## wolfeking

It is more than quality components. Something will always break. Just a matter of time, and because its dumb luck it will be the most expensive part and be refused RMA.   

But yea. I will see what I can do. 2600k should be fine, but I don't know.


----------



## spirit

Well exactly what programs are you going to use? That really depends on which CPU you want.


----------



## wolfeking

I will be using a lot of different programs. The 2600k and 3770k are the top of the line with LGA1155, so I want to go with one of them if possible. It's not a fact of will it do what I want to do. I want something that will do 175% of why I need so I never have to ask "will it run?" I can just install and go.


----------



## spirit

IIRC, the 2600K is quite a lot cheaper than the 3770K, so I'd go for that if you want to save some money.


----------



## wolfeking

It is quite a bot cheaper for it. I don't need a 3rd gen at all. It will all depend on how much it will cost to get a replacement laptop.


----------



## spirit

So the laptop is your priority then?


----------



## wolfeking

It's got to be. I have to have a working laptop that don't overheat for school. Which sucks. I should be able to pick up a T60 or something cheap. Which would help a lot.


----------



## spirit

ThinkPad T60?? I bet you could get one of those dirt cheap these days... probably last another hundred years too.


----------



## wolfeking

The run 249 on newegg, but I want one with at least a NVS140m or the like. I will look at eBay and see what I can find. But it is going to cost more than it is worth definaty.


----------



## spirit

Don't pay 249 for one, they're pretty old now aren't they? I'm sure you could pick up a second hand one fairly cheaply on eBay?


----------



## wolfeking

They wer the direct competitor to the D630, so about 6 years old I think. Do you know what the worstation T60 would have been? I know the T520 is the W520, but I don't remember ever seeing a w60 out there.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:
			
		

> Do you know what the worstation T60 would have been? I know the T520 is the W520, but I don't remember ever seeing a w60 out there.


No I don't I'm afraid.


----------



## wolfeking

Hmm... I shall go a looking when I get me phone charged up enough to tether to te laptop.


----------



## wolfeking

okay vista I think I figured it out. The T60 was a workstation and plain ol mobile office machine. Just depended on the graphics card choice. I found one with a FX570m which should be somewhere around a 8600m GT I think (36/256mb/128 bit) and a 2GHz processor (T7300 is advertised, basically a 800 bus version of what I have in the T7200).  Its $260 though.  The Nvidia cards are quite expensive in these and seeing a lot of the 3650 and 3470 in the T400 replacements.   So probably going with this T60, unless you see something amazingly better on ebay buy it now under 400 with Core 2 or newer and a dedicated DX10 card or newer. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thin...52905889?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item3377c7a9a1  is the one I am looking at. 
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Laptops-Net...pt=Laptops_Nov05&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo&_udhi=400 is the list I narrowed teh search to. 

So with that T60 I should be able to get a Air cooler and a 2600k. I think. Should be 320 + 260 so 580 of 850. Yea, with that I can afford everything.


----------



## spirit

I'd say the T60 looks like a decent machine. If it means you can afford stuff for your desktop too, I'd say it's a good choice.


----------



## wolfeking

yep, I think.  The 2600k is 289, so I think I just figured $30 for a cooler, so should be good.  

One think that just dawned on me, I will have freaking amazing picture on that T60. 1200p on a 15" screen, thats 144 DPI, so way better than the 1200p on the 17" M90.


----------



## wolfeking

okay. So I think I got it sorted right now. Might have to get some short ethernet cables, like 3 foot or something, but that will be mondo cheap at star city. 

so final list for look over. The things in red will not change as I am 100% sure on them, and it's just here for budgetary reasons. 
budget-amount-quantity-link
890-1-1-none
890-2-27.98- http://www.musiciansfriend.com/marching-band/bach-1815-clamp-on-trumpet-cornet-lyre/467468
862-1-12.99- http://www.musiciansfriend.com/marching-band/bach-1815-clamp-on-trumpet-cornet-lyre
849-1-2.99- http://www.musiciansfriend.com/brass-instruments/selmer-tuning-slide-and-cork-grease
846-2-7.98- http://www.musiciansfriend.com/brass-instruments/blue-juice-valve-oil
839-2-53.98- http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-Cell-Batt...69806?pt=Laptop_Batteries&hash=item519d0c250e 
784-1-17.98- http://www.ebay.com/itm/LENOVO-2504...g_Stations&hash=item53ed738c2a#ht_1727wt_1396 
766-1-3.29- http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-ThinkPa...pt=US_Keyboard_Protectors&hash=item1c1ce6fe4b
762-1-260- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thin...tops_Nov05&hash=item3377c7a9a1#ht_1396wt_1396
502-1-289.99- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070
212-1-19.99- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103064
192-1-14.98- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166035 
177-1-n/a- Budgetary surplus 

So does this look good? Are those batteries going to be good? and with that switch is the setup hard? cooler is a hold over to a closed loop. did not want to put too much into it, and it will be sure to fit and not interfere with stuff too much.


----------



## spirit

All looks fine Wolfe, just to answer your questions: 

Yes, that battery should be fine, 9 cells and 7800mAH, should last a while between recharges (when using the T60 at the desk anyway it may be just worth be worth charging it).

No, setting up a switch is dead easy, I'm using one now for my PC (got my PC and my Raspberyy-Pi plugged into it). All you need to do is plug in all the ethernet cables (usually doesn't matter which ports you plug them in), pug in the power connector and you're done. There's usually no software to install or anything to configure, you just plug everything in and go. Glad you went for a switch and not a hub, switches are much faster - I've used both.

That cooler should be fine, you should be able to get your 2600K to 4.0GHz using that I'd say.


----------



## wolfeking

I noticed you saying something about that when you got your switch, thats why I choose a switch. They are about the same price, so would be illogical to get a hub at all. 

The battery, I am hoping to get 180 minutes out of each of them. Or at least 90 minutes on a full charge.  Pretty sure I can as the M90 will suck power compaired, and it has a 6 cell and run 96 minutes on it.  I was mainly concerned with it probably not being a OEM IBM battery (or is a T60 a Lenovo? hmm... same idea) 

Glad the setup will be easy. I am planning on setting it up with ethernet to my D630, desktop, M90, and the docking station, and having it strapped down to the desk. Black should blend in and make it all the much easier to not notice it. But Cable Management will get worse. But I think I am going to get some 2x4 and pipe to cover every cable I can. 

Cooler, I will try 4, but if it don't, then no worry at all. It will at least give me a chance to test the stability of the extreme 4 before I ditch it for the fatality 1 P67 (awesome board none the less).  Can't wait to get pictures of the whole setup.


----------



## spirit

Yeah the switches are faster as they only send out data to the computers which are connected to it and powered on, whereas a hub sends out the data to all computers connected to it, regardless of whether or not they are turned on or not - you getting me? Basically switches are faster.  

The T60 came out when IBM was being bought by Lenovo IIRC. There used to be thousands of threads on the ThinkPad Forums debating "which was the last IBM ThinkPad ever made". I'd say the T60 is probably a Lenovo. You should get more than 90 minutes out of that battery.

You can get black CAT5E cables if you want to keep with the black look. All my CAT5E cables are different colours so I know where they all go. For example, yellow is the main line, black is my 2500K rig and red is the Raspberry-Pi. Make sure the cables are as short as possible.

Looking forward to seeing and hearing how it all goes for you! Good luck!


----------



## wolfeking

I might break out google sketchup later and try my hand at modeling the layout of my room to see. 

I am not really worried about the colour of my wires as I will probably hide them in a black bendy pipe (I don't know the real name, its a polypropylene pipe that is something like a PVC pipe, but comes in a roll and can be cut to length.) I mainly like the black look cause it blends with what is there. My wires right now are all different colours though. Got a coax cable that is black, the computer power, TV power and satalite power is black, ethernet is grey, and I think its a 2 colour DVI cable IIRC.  
Im thinking of building a stand to put the M90 and D630 (just letting them fold once I replace them. Right over the Air vent, so should help cool them), and move the desktop right under the desk, so the longest ethernet cable I need from the switch to computer is about 3 feet. What I will probably do is assemble the setup and measure each cable and add 6 inches (error of margin) and get Star City to cut the cables to fit. Be cleaner that way. If i remember right they charge $.50 per foot, so not much.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, looked, changed, and figured some more. Removed all the thinkpad stuff as it will not do what I need at a level I want.  So it now runs the list as: 
2 silver lyres
1 gold lyre
2 BJ valve oil
1 slide/cork grease 
Prices all stated above 
1 HD 5870 for 162.85 shipped 

2600k, TX3, and switch shipped next day for 350.93 

Still need: 
3 3foot or so RJ45 cables 

probably going to get 16 GB in 8GB DIMMs too, maybe. 

Still could not get the room modeled in scethchup, it just would not do it to an acceptable level for me. 

the 5870 I am looking at is http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-Radeon-...eo_TV_Cards&hash=item33784c18c6#ht_483wt_3694 
Looking to do 3 way CF with it using a 5970 soon.


----------



## FuryRosewood

find a fast ethernet switch if you can, 10/100 is kinda wimpy.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122128

though not sure how many ports you want


----------



## wolfeking

will it really matter in any way with 10 MB/s internet? I do not really network from computer to computer ever, but I think that the desktop is all I have with base 1000 ethernet anyway.  I am not saying a faster one is bad, but I don't think I need to use it.


----------



## FuryRosewood

There may come a time when you do want the gb/s link. I just know ive ran into issues with cheap switches, though it was a gray/silver d-link job, and it just crawled. It was a 10/100 switch but i think it was barely able to turn out 1mb/s. Though in general netgear stuff = good. Its kinda silly, because sometimes me and the roomie share files between the computers in adjacent rooms, and you would swear with how fast the transfers happen, that the drives were connected via the sata interface, I love ethernet. Would never get that kinda speed out of a wifi connection or such. (sorry for rambling, just love gigabit ethernet) Looking at that switch, its also pro level stuff, solid metal chassis, and such, only issue is the power adapter seems to sometimes come up DOA, if that happens just grab a radioshack power brick that supplies the same voltage with equal or greater current.


----------



## wolfeking

wait, which one are you talking about with the metal chassis and such? 

and even if I were to network for whatever reason between the desktop and another computer, say one of my laptops, it will max at the speed of the laptops which are base 100 I am pretty sure. The Precision may be gbit, but doubtful.  And even then, I can transfer a lot more faster using SATA and the 640GB drive that I use as basically a large flashkey with the mediabay adapter.   

The only reason I am getting the switch is to move my desk. I wan't to limit as best as I can the amount of cables running the 23 feet across the room. I can run the 25 foot cable over to the switch from the router and then have 3 foot cables to the computers/docking stations. But I really don't want to have to get something that is going to double the price or more just to have something that is theoretically better, yet will never be seen by me at all.


----------



## FuryRosewood

The netgear switch is a metal case with grounding points, its pro grade equipment, hence the cache on the switch. And theory aside, we have used these switches and they worked great, I am not so keen on the rosewill bugger however.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> okay, looked, changed, and figured some more. Removed all the thinkpad stuff as it will not do what I need at a level I want.  So it now runs the list as:
> <cut>
> 1 HD 5870 for 162.85 shipped
> 
> 2600k, TX3, and switch shipped next day for 350.93
> 
> Still need:
> 3 3foot or so RJ45 cables
> 
> probably going to get 16 GB in 8GB DIMMs too, maybe.
> 
> <cut>
> 
> the 5870 I am looking at is http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-Radeon-...eo_TV_Cards&hash=item33784c18c6#ht_483wt_3694
> Looking to do 3 way CF with it using a 5970 soon.


I have a single HD 5870 and it is a very good card considering it's nearly 3 years old. 3-way CF with either 3 5870s or a single 5870 and a 5970 would set you up for a while yet, they're still pretty powerful cards so I reckon that's a good choice there. Even a single 5970 would do I reckon; but I'm not sure how common they are on eBay and how much they cost. 

CPU still looks fine to me and going for 16GB in 2x8GB DIMMs makes sense if you want to easily upgrade to 32GB in the future. I've got 4x4GB now but I'm not looking to upgrade any time soon, if you want to go to 32GB in the future then yeah I'd say go for it. Which DIMMs are you looking at? Patriot's 8GB DIMMs still?


----------



## wolfeking

either Patriot or Kingston. Depends on what I feel like doing at the the time. 

And I will look at the switches more, but like I said, its mainly a cable management item for me, so I will not need a professional grade one.  

5970s are going for about $400, so $200 a piece on the 5870 chips, and the 5870s are running about 200 also, the 150 one was/is a steal. 
I am not sure which way I will go, either 2 way or 3 way CF. I can do either, but I only have 2 PCIe x16 slots, so that limits options.


----------



## spirit

Patriot and Kingston and good choices. I'd honestly just go for whichever brand has the best memory at the best price.

The Netgear switch I've got works well for me. Mine's pretty old though and I've sure they've probably come out with new products recently which are much better than what I've got. 

Wouldn't really pay 400 for a 5970 in this day and age when something like a GTX 670 could be had for a little more. I reckon two 5870s would be enough. Two 5870s would usually outrun a single 580, see here http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/300?vs=305 I'm not sure how much GPU power you need or are looking for though.


----------



## wolfeking

Well, I just want as much power as I can get without having to buy a brand new card. the only way to get better than a 5870 in a line that I would e willing to use is a GTX 590 or HD 6990 and they both go for far more than 400. http://www.ebay.com/itm/EVGA-GTX-59...eo_TV_Cards&hash=item27c8a1abf6#ht_500wt_1156 and http://www.ebay.com/itm/XFX-Radeon-...o_TV_Cards&hash=item4d0286b36d#ht_9322wt_1396 respectively.   

Don't get it wrong, I am not bashing the 670 and 680, I still like them, but its power I do not need. Really, I don't need much above 1 5870, but I will max what I can do while I'm at it. 

I have used both Patriot and Kingston and they are awesome. I rekon it will be whatever is cheaper when I get it tuesday. 

Switch wise, Ill look around, but it is getting more complicated than it needs to be way too fast.


----------



## spirit

I'd just get whichever switch fits your budget really. 

The 5870 is still a powerful card. I'm maxxing out games at 1080p with my single 5870, with two or a 5970 you should easily be able to max out most games. You only play at 720p too, so a single 5870 will easily be able to max out anything at 720p.


----------



## wolfeking

well, I can get a 1080p monitor, but I think that is beyond the point here. I think 4800 processor cores is a good match for anything in the next well till DX12 is released (probably after Windows 8?) and will match the 2600k pretty well. 

Might be more than I need, but hey, its my money I can spend it on useless things, yes?


----------



## spirit

It's your money, you can spend it on whatever you like. 

Off topic but how is the restoration of those instruments coming along?


----------



## wolfeking

um... I totally forgot about them. Q (the band director) will fix the All Star. The other one that I originally tried to fix, it could not be repaired because of the amount of corrosion inside of it. Basically the Bell, Mouthpiece, and Valve Casings are all that could be reused, resulting in a repair of ~ 900 to fix it, and it only cost 850 new.  Got a YTR2320 to replace it. 
Right now the Conn is the only one that needs a repair, and it should only be 30 or so to get the MTS unstuck. Maybe get it refinished in silver, but I think the deterioration in colour adds to the character. 

Yea, true. I think I will get a 5870 and see how it goes. If I need or want more, then I can later on.  Its all so confusing though. I am not really sure what I really want to do.


----------



## spirit

Well I can tell you that a 5870 is a good choice and so is all the other stuff you've picked. I think if you go for the 2600K + 16Gig of RAM + 5870 you'll be good for a while. You can always get another 5870 or even a 5970 if you like later on if you think your rig is under-performing.


----------



## wolfeking

I really think that it will work well.  Whats worrying me is that it may be bad for the price. Well the 2600k and 24GB of RAM will be fine at the prices, they won't come down for years. But the 5870, I am not sure. 150 seems good, right about a 460 or 560, but performance is better yes? I don't know. I really don't know what the performance is, and I really dislike AMD, but I guess it will be fine for the price. Better than a 480 at least as I will be able to use my current PSU.


----------



## spirit

OK the 5870 is faster than a GTX 460 (reference: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/162?vs=180) and usually faster than a GTX 560 (reference: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/511?vs=543).

However it's about equal to the 560 Ti, sometimes the Radeon is faster, sometimes the GeForce is faster (reference: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/511?vs=547) but it's not as fast as a 480 (reference: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/294?vs=309), however the 5870 is usually quieter and cooler than a 480, so... :/

It's a tough decision, but it's a good card. I got mine for 100 quid. For the money I couldn't have done better I don't think.


----------



## wolfeking

Well, the 480 is an epic card, about a 570 or so. But I am not sure it would be worth it to get one as I would need a bigger PSU, which would be another ~ 150, meaning ~320 in just getting the graphics to a level I like with a Nvidia card. even then, I don't think it would be all that great over the 5870, but it would support FAH and Linux. And I could do 3 way SLI with the Fatality board I was looking at. So there is that. But I think I am over thinking this.


----------



## spirit

If you want Linux support, I'd definitely go for an NVIDIA card over an ATI. Yes, I love my 5870 and all, but when it comes to Linux, NVIDIA has a clear lead over ATI as far as drivers are concerned.

You said you didn't like ATI cards earlier, why? Driver support?


----------



## wolfeking

I don't like them because of just support overall. Pretty much as far as it goes Nvidia can do pretty much everything other than bitcoin better than AMD. However, AMD can game just fine and is cheaper.  Really I can use linux on either laptop. I am really not sure. 

Personally, I have never had a driver issue on the 4870, but that is not to say that they don't exist.


----------



## spirit

ATI drivers can be pretty bad, but like you I've not had a problem. (with my 5870). I was starting to have problems with some of NVIDIA's drivers when I had my GTS 450 towards the beginning of the year.


----------



## wolfeking

I have actually only ever had one driver issue with graphics, and it has been driver crashes resulting in a BSOD on my D630 recently. But it may be temp. related.  Really I think that there are a lot of issues out there than can be brought up, but the likelihood of actually having an issue is like 1 in a thousand.


----------



## spirit

I agree with you. 

I think you can I'd go for a 480 if possible if you want to use Linux. If not, get a 5870 and use Linux in a VM or on another machine. 

You know that the 5870 and 6870 perform pretty close? The 5870 is usually faster but the 6870 is still only a tiny bit slower - may be worth looking into?


----------



## wolfeking

I still do not see how that is possible. The core count is so far off, and I do not think, and I may be wrong, that the 6000 was a big step up. The 5870 has 1600 cores, and should be around a 6970, yes? Or was there really a really big step up between the two?  

either way I am getting the 5870 as I don't want to replace my PSU at this point.


----------



## spirit

Not entirely sure as to why the performance is so close, but it is http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/511?vs=540 the 6970 is definitely faster than a 5870 though, sometimes by quite a large margin http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/511?vs=509

Anyway, yeah, a 5870 would be a good choice. It's a good card. I think it'll serve you well.


----------



## wolfeking

This is another reason why AMD is not great in my eyes. They are entirely illogical.  At least the Nvidia cards are more or less about the same performance as the core count. a 680 is double a 580 is a bit better than a 480 that about matches a 570 with the same cores.  

But it will last at least a month for me. maybe more. I don't know.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, I have said this a bunch before, but final list unless there is something majorly wrong with it. 

Newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166035
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065
and Next day shipping for a total of $361.86

Staples: 
http://www.staples.com/Altra-Chadwick-Collection-Small-Office-Home-Office/product_SS1057501 
I don't know if that link will work. Its $139.99 and an undetermined amount of shipping. 

Ebay: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-Radeon-HD-5870-/221061585094?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item33784c18c6
$162.85

MF: 
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/marching-band/bach-1815-clamp-on-trumpet-cornet-lyre/467468 x2 
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/marching-band/bach-1815-clamp-on-trumpet-cornet-lyre x1
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/brass-instruments/selmer-tuning-slide-and-cork-grease x1
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/brass-instruments/blue-juice-valve-oil x3 
plus free standard shipping. $ 63.93

total $728.63. Can save money by reducing shipping if need be, but I think I am all right.   All I will need is 2 or maybe more 3 foot Ethernet cables. Can probably get them on Ebay.


----------



## spirit

All the stuff looks fine. The Staples link isn't working though, it's asking me for a ZIP code. Was it just a bunch of ethernet cables?


----------



## wolfeking

Its a L shaped desk. I think it was the "Altra™ Chadwick Collection L Desk, Nightingale Black" desk.  Ethernet I am getting through walmart, they have the 3 foot cables for like $2 or something like that. They have them in black too!.  

Should be all I need this month.


----------



## jonnyp11

5870 is stupid, costs about the same as a 6870 new does for barely more performance but with no warranty and unknown quality since he used a pic from google


----------



## spirit

I'm using a corner desk right now and it's pretty nice (considering I got mine second hand for £10!) so I'd say that desk should be nice.  

I'd say it's pretty much ready to be ordered!

Jonny, the 5870 is faster than a 6870.


----------



## jonnyp11

vistakid10 said:


> I'm using a corner desk right now and it's pretty nice (considering I got mine second hand for £10!) so I'd say that desk should be nice.
> 
> I'd say it's pretty much ready to be ordered!
> 
> Jonny, the 5870 is faster than a 6870.



read it again, says it costs almost the same for barely more performance, and a 6870 would be new with a rebate and a free game or something, and the 5870 you dont know if it's damaged any since he didn't post pics, just a google image.


----------



## wolfeking

Johnny, rebates are not guarenteed. They really do not matter in the long run. and if it is damaged, then you file a report against them. Geez. And why would I pay more for a less powerful card that may or may not have a rebate that works. Heck, my case did not even come with the forms to retrive the rebate. that was an extra $10 down the drain. 

I want a older card. 5870 will do what I want and I will get it. If I were to get a 6870, then I might as well go for a 7870 as the 6870 is old too. 7870 might as well go to a 670. Over budget. Goes quick.  In case you did not notice (and no offense intended), but we spent 2 pages determining what GPU I wanted, and the 5870 wins.  

As for vista, I think so too. might have to rearrange my room, but it will fit I think.


----------



## jonnyp11

wolfeking said:


> Johnny, rebates are not guarenteed. They really do not matter in the long run. and if it is damaged, then you file a report against them. Geez. And why would I pay more for a less powerful card that may or may not have a rebate that works. Heck, my case did not even come with the forms to retrive the rebate. that was an extra $10 down the drain.
> 
> I want a older card. 5870 will do what I want and I will get it. If I were to get a 6870, then I might as well go for a 7870 as the 6870 is old too. 7870 might as well go to a 670. Over budget. Goes quick.  In case you did not notice (and no offense intended), but we spent 2 pages determining what GPU I wanted, and the 5870 wins.
> 
> As for vista, I think so too. might have to rearrange my room, but it will fit I think.



U just like new things more and so far i'v had good luck with rebates (four for four).

Know you like the 5870 but looked around anyways

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XFX-AMD-Rad...eo_TV_Cards&hash=item3f192c206d#ht_500wt_1156

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-AMD-Rad...eo_TV_Cards&hash=item4167996379#ht_698wt_1139


----------



## wolfeking

let me put it like this. AMD sucks. If I do not get a 5870, then it is going to be a Nvidia that out performs it. Since the only ones that do out perform it are the 470 and 480 (guessing on the 470), then I will have to out more to get a PSU too.  
Your trying to get me to upgrade farther than I need or want. A 5870 will run everything I want. I am not paying for what I don't need, and I sure as hell ain't going to buy something newer than an introduction DX11 card if I can keep from it. There is no limit of 5870s and 480s out there. Newegg still carries new 480s, maybe refurbished, but same basically. Again, 470 or 480 will need a new PSU, so it is one or the other. 5870 is a top of the line card that will run on my PSU.


----------



## jonnyp11

Wasn't trying to push them or anything, just felt like looking and was showing them to you, not really getting your issue here but i don't care so we'll just leave it be. I will say that a modxstream 600w could easily run a 480 or 470, not the greatest thing but not bad at all, 2 25amp rails push 600w total, the 480 furmarks 480w from the wall, and some of that is on the other rails, si ut's fine. Not going to argue any, just letting you know that bit


----------



## wolfeking

It is only 504 watts on the 12 volt rail. That means it is 42 amps. You also have to take into account for the processor that is 95 watts leaving only at a maximum 409 watts and 34 amps for the graphics. You need 40 amps assuming your quote of 480 watts is accurate. even if you add the processor into that, 40 amps is far too close to the max for my liking. I am not going to run at max draw for long, it will blow something up, ending in a lot more than just a GPU and PSU to replace. 

My issue here is that every time someone helps me and we get the list pinned down, someone else comes in and says it is not good. I might as well go to the end of my rope and let the PC set there consuming power and run the Xbox for games, which will be nothing gained and a lot lost. 

Nothing is really wrong with the newer cards except for the fact that every time one is good enough something new comes out and makes it crazy to have gotten it. I bet as soon as I get a 680 something new will bow it out of the water for the same price. 

I am drawing the line with my money here. It is a 5870 or a 480. Anything more is just throwing petrol at the fire. I do not need anything more. I will not get anything more.


----------



## Perkomate

I would go for the 5870, simply because of the 480s rep with temperatures and power use.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, looking around I found a 480 for not much more than a 5870, its 190 with shipping, which is cheaper than even the cheapest used 570 which is about the same card more or less. I m seeing that the recommended PSU for a 480 is 42 amps and 600 watts. mine fits these, but only just (literally, 42 amps and 600 watts exactly). Will I be fine for a month with this? The plan is a 580 or maybe 670 later if I can and use the 480 as physics maybe. Or just fold on it.  Not sure. Still thinking. 

So all that is for sure right now is a 2600k, a cooler, and the Switch.  Need a desk, and GPU maybe. I can wait on the GPU if necessary. 

What I am looking at I guess is: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EVGA-Corpor...eo_TV_Cards&hash=item3cc82a0fc9#ht_829wt_1396

secondary choice 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PNY-XLR8-Pe...eo_TV_Cards&hash=item4ab960fa87#ht_500wt_1413

others that caught eye: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-Radeon-...eo_TV_Cards&hash=item33784c18c6#ht_483wt_3694
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sapphire-Ra...eo_TV_Cards&hash=item2ebfced54f#ht_500wt_1413
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NVIDIA-QUAD...833?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item25725cb761

thats about all of them that caught my eye.  Not sure which I really want. I like the 480, but am kinda worried of using the PSU at max constantly.


----------



## jonnyp11

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EVGA-Corpor...248?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item4ab90d6b18

480 ending soon if you can snag it for less than the other

And if this guy will come down enough

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EVGA-Corpor...672?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item337840d450


----------



## wolfeking

I bid on it for 142.5 but I am not sure Ill get it. 

Will I be fine with that running on my PSU?


----------



## jonnyp11

the 480 should be fine on it, with 42 amps it still has a bit of wiggle room (just over 500w and furmark will use ~480 from the wall), but on games (crysis was their bench) it topped out at 421 from the wall, it should be fine


----------



## wolfeking

For the win! lol. Got it for 2.5 more than the 5870 I originally wanted, but the shipping is $3 cheaper, so completely, its less than the 5870.


----------



## jonnyp11

wolfeking said:


> _~snip~_
> For the win! lol. Got it for 2.5 more than the 5870 I originally wanted, but the shipping is $3 cheaper, so completely, its less than the 5870.



I should definitely get a finders fee


----------



## wolfeking

I hope your joking. lol. 

Yep. Should be good I rekon. Now just figuring how to get a desk and put a new plug in my room to move the computer over where I want it.


----------



## jonnyp11

wolfeking said:


> I hope your joking. lol.
> 
> Yep. Should be good I rekon. Now just figuring how to get a desk and put a new plug in my room to move the computer over where I want it.



hey, you were ready to spend 190 and i got it for you for 162.45, don't you think i deserve 7.55 

yes i'm kidding but hey, you could always do it anyways


----------



## wolfeking

I could do it. I may do it. Never know. i might just start  another folding challenge. Not sure yet.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, so got everything this month. Looking to get a new case and PSU. Still do not know quite what I want there. 
PSU I am looking at: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139014
or 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341053

cases: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139013
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139012
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146072
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147107

but none of these fit just right. I am looking to get something that is more or less teh size of a 912, it is big enough. But it needs to be square, like a box, with no windows. And needs no LEDs at all, they are a deal breaker. and it needs the rubber covers over the cable management holes.


----------



## jonnyp11

Here's three good ones i guess

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352013

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352007

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811345009

I'd love the corsair, i like the individual wrapping on the OCZ but it would look a little messy, the corsair used black wires with a wrapping so it would look very clean. But for the money i think i'd have to take the OCZ no matter what, good quality and very efficient.


----------



## wolfeking

Im not really sure. I have to be sure of what I am spending in August so I can get all my stuff for school too. :/  Need a P67 motherboard, maybe Z68 or Z77 if there is one out there with 3 PCIe x16 slots and 2 PS2 ports. Would like to have a FDD socket too, but I think they are getting hard to find now, not the drives, the disk themselves. 

Also need a better PSU, prefer full modular, but a bit cheaper than above stated.

Cases, I am keeping the HAF for a little longer, just to save funds. 

got an idea to get a SSD or maybe another small hard drive to store just windows, nothing else. That way when I need to switch motherboards for whatever reason like today, I can get all my games and everything still there, and just reinstall on the SSD? or does it not work that way? Maybe store the full downloads on a specific partition of the hard drive so reinstalls do not take 8+ hours like this one is. 

okay, should be good. Unless there is anything you think would be epic in there for $50 or less jonny and vista.


----------



## spirit

Firstly can I ask why you want a 1000W or 1250W power supply? I know you're running a 480 and they're power hungry, but they're not *that* power hungry. Is it because you can only get fully-modular PSUs when you start to go that high in wattage?

Most newer boards don't even have any PS/2 ports at all and certainly no floppy disk drive connectors. I think ASRock may have made a P67 or Z68 board which had PS/2, but I've not seen floppy disk drive connectors on boards for a while. Why do you need a floppy disk drive connector?

Not sure what you mean about the hard drives and Windows. If you're asking if you can install Windows on a drive and leave it and use it for emergencies on different boards, no, that won't work. It would likely blue screen because all the hardware is different.

I know you're keeping the HAF, but have you looked into the Carbide 300R? Has almost everything you wanted out of a case. Box-like, no LEDs, no side window, not sure about the rubber cable management grommets though, probably has them. It's 80 bucks from Newegg.


----------



## jonnyp11

vistakid10 said:


> Firstly can I ask why you want a 1000W or 1250W power supply? I know you're running a 480 and they're power hungry, but they're not *that* power hungry. Is it because you can only get fully-modular PSUs when you start to go that high in wattage?
> 
> Most newer boards don't even have any PS/2 ports at all and certainly no floppy disk drive connectors. I think ASRock may have made a P67 or Z68 board which had PS/2, but I've not seen floppy disk drive connectors on boards for a while. Why do you need a floppy disk drive connector?
> 
> Not sure what you mean about the hard drives and Windows. If you're asking if you can install Windows on a drive and leave it and use it for emergencies on different boards, no, that won't work. It would likely blue screen because all the hardware is different.
> 
> I know you're keeping the HAF, but have you looked into the Carbide 300R? Has almost everything you wanted out of a case. Box-like, no LEDs, no side window, not sure about the rubber cable management grommets though, probably has them. It's 80 bucks from Newegg.



he wants to go triple 480's later on, at least double.

i think the majority of motherboards have at least one PS/2 port, and wolf, why not just get a new mouse or keyboard? i know this POS can't hit more than like 2 buttons in an area before it starts beeping and not reading a button, i think usb boards handle a lot more, but it might just be how old and crap this is.

I'd get a Agility 3 60GB for sure, can get them for like 55 sometimes, it's worth it.


----------



## byteninja2

Triple 480's?! Does he realise how useless that would be? Okay, 2 480s, great, but 3 will only give a slight difference over 2. One 670 would beast 3 480s for around the same price, and give better folding.


----------



## spirit

I have my doubts that a single 670 would be faster than 3 480s in SLI...


----------



## MyCattMaxx

byteninja2 said:


> Triple 480's?! Does he realise how useless that would be? Okay, 2 480s, great, but 3 will only give a slight difference over 2. One 670 would beast 3 480s for around the same price, and give better folding.


Wrong, 2 480"s will destroy a 670 folding.
One 480 would be a close match.
Where did you get that info?


----------



## jonnyp11

vistakid10 said:


> I have my doubts that a single 670 would be faster than 3 480s in SLI...



it's nowhere near as fast, idk where the hell he keeps getting these numbers, he keep also saying the 670 is faster than the 7970GHZ which ties the 680.

double 480's is close to double 580's which kills the 670.


----------



## spirit

Yeah I did a quick Google search and I saw that two 480s are faster than a single 670, so yeah three 480s would definitely own a single 670. 

The 670 performs closer to the 7950 than the 7970 (see http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/550?vs=598), and the 7970 is usually faster than a 670, but granted, sometimes the 670 is a little faster in some scenarios (see http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/508?vs=598).


----------



## jonnyp11

vistakid10 said:


> Yeah I did a quick Google search and I saw that two 480s are faster than a single 670, so yeah three 480s would definitely own a single 670.
> 
> The 670 performs closer to the 7950 than the 7970 (see http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/550?vs=598), and the 7970 is usually faster than a 670, but granted, sometimes the 670 is a little faster in some scenarios (see http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/508?vs=598).



yeah but when comparing amd to nvidia it always goes back and forth since some games are made for nvidia. But he claimed that the 7970GHZ was 3% slower than the 670 at least, look at this!

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/618?vs=598

it kills it really overall, they tie a good bit but it wins a good bit and never really looses to it.


----------



## spirit

I agree, in the vast majority of benches Anandtech ran, the 7970 GHz Edition came out faster than the 670. Not really a surprise since the stock 7970 is usually faster than a 670 anyway. :/


----------



## byteninja2

Oh, triple 480s deffinatly beat a 670, but it really is useless to have 3 cards, because a 680 is worse IN BENCHES, how amny games even take close to full advantage of tri sli? None. Not to many even take advantage of tri sli. 2 480s WILL NOT beat a 670. 2 580s is almost with a 680, much less a 480.


----------



## MyCattMaxx

Still waiting on your source for your 670 folding statement.
Kepler is not a great folder, Fermi still rules.


----------



## claptonman

You can buy PS/2 to USB adapters, if need be.


----------



## byteninja2

My dear cheese, your right. My info was based, um, forgot the site, but your right. I thouht 2 480s would lose to 680 no matter what, but? http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1511766&mpage=1 I had no idea.  Oh cheese. Though, 3Dmark, is great with SLi, in many games a 680 will win, but in many games, not by much. I cant wait for 660's come on, 2 of those in SLi will BEAST! http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-580-sli-review/6 vs http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-680-review/20 A 680 wins?


----------



## wolfeking

jonnyp11 said:


> he wants to go triple 480's later on, at least double.


this is the main reason. but I may only do double 



jonnyp11 said:


> i think the majority of motherboards have at least one PS/2 port, and wolf, why not just get a new mouse or keyboard? i know this POS can't hit more than like 2 buttons in an area before it starts beeping and not reading a button, i think usb boards handle a lot more, but it might just be how old and crap this is.


OT and I know we have been over it before. wolf*E* The e is part of the first name. Not part of the middle name, which is Alan. 

Back to the topic. Because it has nothing to do with my current mouse and keyboard. I want to work with reactOS which at this time has little to no USB support in the setup phases. Can run a USB driver later, but that helps none at this point. 



jonnyp11 said:


> I'd get a Agility 3 60GB for sure, can get them for like 55 sometimes, it's worth it.


It is really not worth it. It is not about the speed. I am fine with a 7200 RPM drive. However, it is about separating my data from the OS so that reinstalling does not take everything with it. 



byteninja2 said:


> Triple 480's?! Does he realise how useless that would be? Okay, 2 480s, great, but 3 will only give a slight difference over 2. One 670 would beast 3 480s for around the same price, and give better folding.


Do you realize how useless your advice is? Please do some research before you talk.  



MyCattMaxx said:


> Wrong, 2 480"s will destroy a 670 folding.
> One 480 would be a close match.
> Where did you get that info?


Agreed. 1 480 is awesome (when you set the computer to not turn off after 20 minutes of "idle".  2 would be the ownage of everything minus some 580s but they would not be too far ahead as they are only 32 cores ahead. 



jonnyp11 said:


> it's nowhere near as fast, idk where the hell he keeps getting these numbers, he keep also saying the 670 is faster than the 7970GHZ which ties the 680.
> 
> double 480's is close to double 580's which kills the 670.


Again agreed. 



byteninja2 said:


> Oh, triple 480s deffinatly beat a 670, but it really is useless to have 3 cards, because a 680 is worse IN BENCHES, how amny games even take close to full advantage of tri sli? None. Not to many even take advantage of tri sli. 2 480s WILL NOT beat a 670. 2 580s is almost with a 680, much less a 480.


Are you kidding me. Games is why I should go for a card that is newer? I cab game just fine on a 4870. No need for anything else. Your advising for something you have no ****ing clue about.  Get off my thread now. 



claptonman said:


> You can buy PS/2 to USB adapters, if need be.


  They still run off the USB bus and would read to the OS as a USB card. There are PS/2 PCI cards out there, but from what I have seen most of them are PCI to USB with an adapter to PS/2 and still read to the OS as USB which is useless on reactOS as it out of the box has no USB support.


----------



## byteninja2

Ahem...did you see my last post?Shut the cheese up, you cheese hole.Is it impossible for you to be nice?


----------



## wolfeking

Again, you based it off a freaking benchmark and a review based on games.   I DON'T CARE ABOUT GAMES.  anything else you say in this thread is being ignored. And saying cheese is no better than saying [email protected]#$ for F*** we still know what you are saying and it is still breaking the rules. but whatever.  Get off the thread.


----------



## jonnyp11

And look at the damn benches, most of them are games but there are also plenty of other programs too and in all of them the 480's beat the 670 and 80, it doesn't matter what it is, most everything supports sli and anything that doesn't will most likely be updated to support it through patches or drivers.


----------



## Okedokey

wolfeking said:


> Again, you based it off a freaking benchmark and a review based on games.   I DON'T CARE ABOUT GAMES.  anything else you say in this thread is being ignored. And saying cheese is no better than saying [email protected]#$ for F*** we still know what you are saying and it is still breaking the rules. but whatever.  Get off the thread.



Settle down mate, ive had infractions for far less 

If you're just folding, cant you put any other gpu in there?  SLI is not needed.


----------



## wolfeking

720p now, 1080p later. I am not worried about gaming. As I said, the 4870 games what I do just fine. I would try the BF3 on the 2600k (stock) and 480, but I need to try and get my system working with it again. But eh.  

Folding a 480 is just fine. 2 will be double as good. 3 will be triple as good. But I think what I will do is run 2 in SLI (i head folding don't like it) and do 1 just by itself for physics, folding or whatever it needs. 

What I am mainly trying to find now is a motherboard that fits just right to replace the extreme 4.


----------



## MyCattMaxx

bigfellla said:


> Settle down mate, ive had infractions for far less
> 
> If you're just folding, cant you put any other gpu in there?  SLI is not needed.


From all the forums and chatter about folding in SLI the consensus is to not run in SLI because you wind up with a lower ppd than running them as separate clients.
I have not tried it myself but I trust the many people that turn off SLI mode for folding.


----------



## wolfeking

bigfellla said:


> If you're just folding, cant you put any other gpu in there?  SLI is not needed.


I am not just folding. I am also running some games and using Blender (CAD). And I don't think I would do very well putting just any other GPU in there. A 480 I would match to a 480. It looks better, and when running games (which I do sometimes) I can actually use SLI. 

Plus, could I not just pull the SLI bridge when not gaming or modeling? or would that mess up the system?


----------



## wolfeking

okay, so building a list now I think. Starting with a basic list. Budget of ~650 that gives me 200 for school supplies and whatever else I need. 

Keeping for now: 
HAF 912 Redneck mod
EVGA GTX 480 
1TB seagate 
LG DVDRW drive 
212 evo 
8GB RAM DDR3-1600 CAS9  
6 fans 

plans: 
motherboard 
If it comes back into stock. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157240 
I like this board. It is P67 and old school. Meaning it has 2 PS/2, ATA100, Floppy, and looks cool. 

If not in stock then
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157265 
but I do not trust this one. It looks to be the same exact thing I have just 2 PS/2, floppy, and P67. The one I have is sucktastic as it has went down twice now. 

SSD: 
Depends on what I need as far as a lappy can go. If I don't get one this month, then I can get http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227706 or I will go to 2 60GB drives if I get a lappy (one for each) 

FDD/card reader
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820192022
If I have the port, I am certainly going to try to fill it. Plus I can back up most of my word work on them. 

Actually that is all I can think of right now. does it all look good? It budgets to ~350 assuming the fatality board.

edit, some extenders are needed. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812201028 x2 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200121 
to relieve stress on the connector

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200124

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812123321

should be fine now. now budget is ~382


----------



## Perkomate

what about going for a different brand of motherboard? Gigabyte do some really nice P67 boards like the UD4/7 that are very trusted and pretty cheap. I don't think they have the PS2 support that you're after.


----------



## wolfeking

Thats the issue. no one else has PS/2 support at this point. I may just have to get a old system, which is expensive (more power, probably needing some work) to play with reactOS. I know it does not work with either of my laptops, both of them have keyboards that read to the OS as USB.   

If I was going to get a better board that is not a p67 with PS/2 I would go for a ud5h in Z77. But It has less PS/2 than the extreme 4 Z77 that I had, and no floppy or ATA100.


----------



## spirit

OK Wolfe, here's what I've got to say. Basically what you've planned all looks like good stuff. I think that P67 Pro from ASRock is probably you're best bet, seems like a good solid board (looks good too). The rest of the stuff looks OK too.  Not really a lot I can say about extensions, you know, you kind of get what you get...

One thing you could try is running ReactOS in a virtual machine perhaps? Then you wouldn't need PS/2 support at all. If you want I can quickly try it in a VM for you and tell you if it works or not.


----------



## wolfeking

I will try a VM when I get the desktop up and working again. Don't have the RAM for it on the laptops. 

But what I am worried about is not having enough graphics support for it in VM. Like if I want to try a game, or see what kind of modeling I can do with react, then I will be stuck. But I can see anyway.


----------



## spirit

Graphics are a problem with VMs, yes. How exactly are you planning to run ReactOS on the desktop? As a dual-boot with Windows presumably if you want raw hardware access?


----------



## wolfeking

can't dual boot. Gunna run it on a dedicated hard drive.  It is very early in its development at the moment, so it is not the make or break decision, but I like what they are trying to do, and want to help them, so I would like to be able to use it. 

Might be able to get a small P4 setupu with it later. based off something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121373 or something maybe used. I don't know. 

If I go with a different system for this use only, then what would be the best board to get? 
needs:

LGA 1155
P or Z chipset
At least 3 PCIe x16 slots 
4 DIMMs

Want, but not a deal breaker 

ATA 100 
Floppy 
PS/2


----------



## spirit

If you can get an older system I'd say that'd be the best way, or perhaps try it on one of your laptops. I'll leave it up to you to decide on that.

I heard about ReactOS and I did download it because I too thought it was a good idea, but I never got round to trying it out. 

As for which board would be best, I've always recommended the GA-Z77X-UD3H to people on here looking at new builds http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128544&Tpk=ga-z77x-ud3h Great board, looks good, 3x PCI-E slots, 4 DIMM support, ATX size (dislike mATX myself), Z77 chipset. Would work fine with your 2600K, too. Even has one PS/2 port.

Honestly, if I were going to buy a new board tomorrow (and this time yesterday with the problems I was having with POSTing, I honestly thought I would have to replace my board), I'd seriously consider the UD3H.


----------



## wolfeking

I have tried it on both the laptops before. the keyboards are hooked up via a USB interface (well, the OS reads it as USB), and does not work. Ill leave it to an older system to try it out. 

hmm.. looks like a good board. But is it equal to a UD5H or UD5H-WB? What is the difference in them?


----------



## spirit

The difference between the UD3H and the UD5H is that the UD5H has dual-gigabit LAN and I think the UD5H may have onboard Wi-Fi support and it likely has a better cooling phase, meaning overclocking is easier. Dad has the UD5H, works well for him with an i7 3770.

One thing I forgot to mention, you need to make sure you update the BIOS to F7 straight away if you get the UD5H. Some people have had issues with the older BIOSes on the UD5H. Updating the BIOS is easy though.


----------



## wolfeking

hmm, Dual Ethernet. What would even be the point of that? 

And BIOS update. I know it used to need a floppy to do, as did RAID. How are they doing it these days? 

Would you recommend the UD5H over the UD3H? Its not much more.


----------



## spirit

There are some benefits to dual-gigabit LAN. I can't remember what they are but Dad needed it for some reason, so that's why I said the UD5H would be good for him.

Usually BIOS updates work by copying the BIOS file to a pendrive/USB thumb drive and then plugging in the USB drive whilst in the BIOS and then flashing it from there. Each manufacture has it's own little facility in the BIOS to flash from USB. Usually you just plug the drive in, point the BIOS to the file, and away it goes. Job done. It's so much easier these days, and safer too.

As for RAID, usually you don't have to do anything these days I don't think, it's all just in the BIOS.

Would I recommend the UD5H over the UD3H? If the UD5H is like 10 bucks or less more expensive than the UD3H, then yeah, I probably would. Otherwise, not necessarily.


----------



## wolfeking

Its $30 more. but I am not sure what it is offering for sure. I men, $30 is nothing to me really for a major component. 

I have a switch, and got cables coming to work that, so 1 port should be enough, but then again, I could have one port to have set aside specifically for transferring files mondo fast between laptops and the desktop, yes? 

okay, if it is as simple as loading the file on a flashkey and going away with it, that is easy.  
By RAID I meant the F6 drivers when it goes to boot up. They used to need a floppy with the drivers on it. Not sure how it works now a days.


----------



## spirit

Nah save the 30 and keep it for something else. The UD3H is a great board. 

I'm pretty sure if you got the UD5H you could do that, but I'm not entirely sure. I don't know that much about networking and stuff like that really.

Usually it's as simple as putting it on a flashkey, read your manual first though. Sometimes there are 3 or 4 different methods of flashing the BIOS.

You don't need to worry about a floppy or installing RAID drivers before you install Windows these days I don't think (Vista and 7). I'm not sure how good XP support is these days though, you may need to somehow slipstream the RAID drivers into the XP disc, or if you use an XP SP3 disc it may work fine.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, listening to the newegg review of the UD5H, it sounds good, but he says that the x4 PCIe slot will only work with ivybridge.  so only 2 cards. That is not good. but don't know for sure. 

Something else that caught my eye, and about the same price as the fatality is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128552.  Looks to be one hell of a board fro the price. and 2 x16 and 2 x8 looks very good for the graphics. 

Let me put it like this. I just don't want to cheap out again. Seen how that goes already. But then again, the cheapest of the cheap H61 boards has been rock solid for me. :/  But again, not cheaping out on it if I can avoid it.


----------



## FuryRosewood

Sniper is eATX, keep that in mind.


----------



## wolfeking

will it fit the 912?


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> will it fit the 912?



Don't think so, going by this http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/landing/haf912/home.php?page=specs says ATX and mATX only. 

Something like this may be the answer http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131818 yeah yeah I know it's an ASUS, but honestly, I've not had a problem with ASUS and I've used quite a few of their boards now.


----------



## wolfeking

son of a.  Cooler Master has got to be communist! 

okay http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146095 with it. would that be all I need for that setup? A case and the motherboard?


----------



## spirit

Nice case. Yep, all you'd need is the board and a new case. Power supply and everything else should be the same.


----------



## wolfeking

for now anyways. I am trying to keep the cost down for august without cheaping out on it. 

So for now, assuming everything goes well and nothing else breaks the list goes: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146095
and 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128552

for a grand total of 489. 

Or may just go for the fatality and be done for a while.


----------



## spirit

It's a lot of money, but I reckon the G1 Sniper + the Switch case looks like a good platform to me.


----------



## wolfeking

the UD5H would only need the board. But again, the newegg guy said that the 3rd pcie x4 slot only works with 3rd generation processors. I really want to run 3 480s, but I guess we shall see. May just get it.


----------



## spirit

I did some Googling and found that apparently for some reason the UD5H doesn't support Tri-SLI. The UD5H would be a cheaper route and I don't think there's going a massive difference between two and three 480s. Remember that three 480s will run hot too, so you'd need very good airflow.


----------



## Gun

vistakid10 said:


> If it's for folding I'd go for a 2GB 560 Ti, or just go for it and get a 670 if you can afford one.



I've already asked someone this but I don't think it was answered. What exactly is folding?


----------



## spirit

S3AnD3 said:


> I've already asked someone this but I don't think it was answered. What exactly is folding?



All the answers are here http://www.computerforum.com/62246-folding-home-cf-official-discussion-thread.html


----------



## Gun

vistakid10 said:


> All the answers are here http://www.computerforum.com/62246-folding-home-cf-official-discussion-thread.html



Allright, I'll read it now.


----------



## wolfeking

Well there is more going on than just games. But I may just have to settle. I don't know. I will figure it out later.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> Thats the issue. no one else has PS/2 support at this point. I may just have to get a old system, which is expensive (more power, probably needing some work) to play with reactOS. I know it does not work with either of my laptops, both of them have keyboards that read to the OS as USB.
> 
> If I was going to get a better board that is not a p67 with PS/2 I would go for a ud5h in Z77. But It has less PS/2 than the extreme 4 Z77 that I had, and no floppy or ATA100.



You can get PS/2 to USB device.  I think it can be found on amazon.com.


----------



## spirit

Jamebonds1 said:


> You can get PS/2 to USB device.  I think it can be found on amazon.com.



Not a viable option. He wants to use ReactOS and as ReactOS does not support USB at all yet, so it would mean that adapters are useless.


----------



## Jamebonds1

vistakid10 said:


> Not a viable option. He wants to use ReactOS and as ReactOS does not support USB at all yet, so it would mean that adapters are useless.



Hmm... ReactOS should be able to support USB?


----------



## byteninja2

Jamebonds1 said:


> Hmm... ReactOS should be able to support USB?



Why should it be able to? Its a operating system that doesnt include usb drivers. But, wolfe, look at this: http://www.reactos.org/wiki/USB_Stack It sounds like it can support keyboard and mice for USB out of box. But I barely read it, so I dont know. Also, if your still neeed ps2 ports, dont most boards have 1 PS2 port, than get a splitter? But reactOS might not work with a splitter, ask on thier forums.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> Thats the issue. no one else has PS/2 support at this point. I may just have to get a old system, which is expensive (more power, probably needing some work) to play with reactOS. I know it does not work with either of my laptops, both of them have keyboards that read to the OS as USB.
> 
> If I was going to get a better board that is not a p67 with PS/2 I would go for a ud5h in Z77. But It has less PS/2 than the extreme 4 Z77 that I had, and no floppy or ATA100.



Have you turn on USB legacy in BIOS setting?


----------



## wolfeking

as far as I know there are no settings to change with USB in my BIOS at all. thanks you. Byte, you advice is ignored as you were told earlier in this thread. 

and from that site: 


> The USB stack is the component which provides the communication between USB devices and their respective drivers and applications. It consists of multiple files, each with a distinct function. *The USB stack in ReactOS is currently limited*.





> What works and not
> Mouse support has been tested in WinXP with ReactOS USBOHCI + HIDUSB + HIDCLASS + MOUHID + HIDPARSE and is working. The USB + HID stack also works in ReactOS.
> *Basic Keyboard support need a 2/3 functions implemented (coming soon)*.
> USB Mass storage support - Needs mountmgr / partmgr driver implemented. Will also need mountvol and other missing PnP stuff. Update:


----------



## wolfeking

okay, decided to keep my case and go ATX, all be it plans will only allow for 2 480s now. Guess that is compromise. 

know I want: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128545 

not sure here. Have no idea about speakers. Well other than they reproduce electrons into waves that create a sound and use a 3.5mm jack. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121050 

would I need a sound card? Looking at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132053 but I really don't want to spend money on it if I don't need it quite yet.  There is more in life than computers after all.


----------



## spirit

As you know I quite like that board, so that is a good choice there definitely. 

I don't really know an awful lot about speakers and sounds card but I'll try to help. Those speakers look good, but if you are going to get a sound card for them, you'd probably want a better/more expensive card. You may as well just stick to the onboard sound for the time being and if you find you need a sound card, get a higher-end one.


----------



## wolfeking

something like these? 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132019
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271007 

I really no nothing about sound. So I am making blind guesses here. But I can say that both those cards would have to wait till september, as they are way over budget at this point.


----------



## spirit

Yeah, I'm kinda guessing too. As you're spending almost 400 bucks on a set of speakers, I'd say you wouldn't see the difference between the onboard sound and 50 buck sound card really. 

I'm not sure how many members here know an awful lot about sound, perhaps speak to Salvage-this? I have a feeling he may know something.


----------



## wolfeking

I think I will start a thread on the sound subforum and get advice there.


----------



## Jamebonds1

@Wolfeking

That motherboard don't have Dolby Theater Home, so the sound onboard would limited sound wave a bit since it have no Dolby bass and Dolby Logic II.  

So if you want to have good sound, dolby, DTS connection and amp headphone.  

Here is this card.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102042

or 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132054

For computer speaker, I advice this speaker.  It is great speaker and is strong.  They can running for more than 10 years at highest volume.  If you want cheap computer speaker, be careful some of those cheap speaker can broke easily.  

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-ProMe...8&qid=1341777688&sr=8-1&keywords=thx+speakers

If you want theater system, Samsung and sony is good brand.  

PS.  Most time you can look at amazon.com for good deal at low price.


----------



## Jamebonds1

vistakid10 said:


> As you know I quite like that board, so that is a good choice there definitely.
> 
> I don't really know an awful lot about speakers and sounds card but I'll try to help. Those speakers look good, but if you are going to get a sound card for them, you'd probably want a better/more expensive card. You may as well just stick to the onboard sound for the time being and if you find you need a sound card, get a higher-end one.



Good thing is I'm here with knowledge of speaker and sound card


----------



## wolfeking

Jamebonds1 said:


> @Wolfeking
> 
> That motherboard don't have Dolby Theater Home, so the sound onboard would limited sound wave a bit since it have no Dolby bass and Dolby Logic II.


No offense intended, but wtf is dolby. I mean I see it advertised on some of my games, and my TV has it, but what makes it better? Is it worth the money to support it? 



> So if you want to have good sound, dolby, DTS connection and amp headphone.
> 
> Here is this card.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102042
> 
> or
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132054


I like that Asus card, but it needs a PCIe power. So I will need to wait till I can get a new power supply as both my PCIe powers are tied up in my 480. 



> For computer speaker, I advice this speaker.  It is great speaker and is strong.  They can running for more than 10 years at highest volume.  If you want cheap computer speaker, be careful some of those cheap speaker can broke easily.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-ProMe...8&qid=1341777688&sr=8-1&keywords=thx+speakers
> 
> If you want theater system, Samsung and sony is good brand.
> 
> PS.  Most time you can look at amazon.com for good deal at low price.


Okay, let me put it like  this. If it is over $50, I am not buying it from Amazon. I have not had good luck from them in the past. 
What is wrong with the 5.1 system from newegg? the main thing is that it is mountable with machine screws, and uses standard speaker cable so I can get it up easy and if necessary, get longer cables from a local store.  a 2.1 system is not wanted at all. They are gutless and not worth investing in.


----------



## byteninja2

I will anwser one question there, and though Im not completly sure, i am pretty sureolby compatible onbiard sound isnt worth it.I am pretty sire it would only make a audiable difference with nice dolby compatible speakers, which you would be buying a sound card for, anyways.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, let me reword that.  What is it? And are the newegg 5.1 speakers compatible?  the UD5H does not have it stock, so what will I be missing?


----------



## jonnyp11

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/technology/home-theater/dolby-digital.html

Dolby is the standard audio codec for surround sound, really i see no need to support dolby since i'm pretty sure the creative and asus sound cards use their own codecs don't they? but unless you have more than 2 speakers there is absolutely no point in it as far as i can tell.


----------



## byteninja2

If that board that is dolby is more, dont get it.You can get a refurbished nice sound card for $10.Plus, you wont even notice a big difference, if any.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, I am getting really confused here.  What I am seeing there is that it is a codec? So a Asus card will use something different? 

I think what I am going to do is get a better set of 2.1 or 2.0 speakers for now and wait a bit for the sound card and 5.1 set. 

searching around and editing the list now.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, maybe this is good. 

motherboard: Gigabyte for the win. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128545 
may go for the UD3H instead, but for the price difference I think this is good. 

RAM: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220558
8 is not enough. I want more, and will get 32 soon when I get another case and PSU. A little at a time. 

okay, the rest is nice to have, but unneeded really. got worries about them anyway. 

SSD: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226236
120 seems like a good amount. Enough to use windows, open office, maybe MW3 and BF2 to reduce load time to nothing flat.  Is this a good one? if not, what is? 

LCD: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009306 
1080p. Cheap. DVI and VGA.  looks good. worried though, the DVI port there and the DVI ports on my card are not the same. I think I have DVI-i and it has DVI-d. Will it still work together? 

Sound: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121019 
Stand in for the 5.1 system as it needs a lot to get working. I like logitec, so staying with them. Might get a system at walmart if they have any though. 

All together this is 465, so well withing budget. 

does it all look good?


----------



## byteninja2

Okay, 32 GB?5 virtual boxes need 16 gigs MAX, running at one tine, with windows running to.Your choice, dont get mad at me plese, not in the mood.


----------



## wolfeking

well I plan on giveing each 4GB and not really wanting to close one to open another. That means 8 at a minimum on my VMs. and memory is dirt cheap, so not really worth it not to max it out. 

and I am actually not mad at all right now. Im in a good mood. 

Does everything else look good to you?


----------



## spirit

I can assure you now that virtual machines run very nicely with 32GB of RAM.  It's his money, he can do what he wants with it.

Wolfe, that SSD looks good, this one's is one of the fastest on the market right now http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171567 believe me they are very good, I've tried one.


----------



## byteninja2

Thank cheese, you are in a good mood, because I am not, But i try to hide that, but I will be in a good mood in about 10 hours, gotta sleep and get ready.But, yeah, whatever you wanna do woth 32 gb.What will you be storing on the SSD, cause 128GB is pretty small.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, just one thing I need to check. Will vista play nice with the SSDs? I know 7 is optimized a bit more, but I really want to keep the one I have working. I would get a copy of 7 to fix mine, but pro is so freaking expensive! 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116717 
but I think I need ultimate to get one that will run outside of english, right?


----------



## wolfeking

byteninja2 said:


> Thank cheese, you are in a good mood, because I am not, But i try to hide that, but I will be in a good mood in about 10 hours, gotta sleep and get ready.But, yeah, whatever you wanna do woth 32 gb.What will you be storing on the SSD, cause 128GB is pretty small.


120 are the ones I am looking at I think.  I am just putting Windows, MW3, BF2, open office, and probably my CAD software on it. It should be enough. I am running 152GB on my current install and it has BF3, BF2142, BF2, MOH, MOHAA, MOHPA, open office, and MW3 installed.


----------



## spirit

byteninja2 said:


> What will you be storing on the SSD, cause 128GB is pretty small.


128GB is enough for an install of Windows 7, several big programs and a game or two. I have W7, Office 2010, Adobe CS5.5, Visual Studio 2010 and Dirt 3 all installed on my SSD and I have around 30GB of free storage. 



wolfeking said:


> okay, just one thing I need to check. Will vista play nice with the SSDs? I know 7 is optimized a bit more, but I really want to keep the one I have working. I would get a copy of 7 to fix mine, but pro is so freaking expensive!
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116717
> but I think I need ultimate to get one that will run outside of english, right?


Yes Vista works OK on SSDs, I ran it on my M4 for a week or so. Be aware though that Vista does not have support for TRIM, which is a technology which keeps the drive running like new - only Windows 7 has that at the moment. Is it a massive disadvantage? Probably not. SSDs wear down/get slower as you write more and more to them, so you want to avoid reformatting and reinstalling every other weekend if you have an SSD ideally.  That's what I've found hardest about owning an SSD. However, it will take a long time (I'm talking years) before the SSD gets so worn down so much that it is slower than a regular platter hard drive.

Yes, you need Ultimate if you want to use language packs. Pro and Premium do not have these available to download.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, then no worries. I have a working retail version of Vista, so I should be great for now. Get windows 7 later.  
TRIM is not Windows 7 exclusive. OSX 10.6 has it, as does Ubuntu 12 and Mint 12, I think it is in the linux kernal at this point. 

Looking like everything is getting set now. Still need some batteries for my M90, but I can get them anytime, and looking to get something cheap to carry with me to type on and such, probably an old P3 or PM lappy from IBM would do nice. Still looking for them. They are dirt cheap though, so no worries.


----------



## spirit

Yep your Vista will work fine. Vista on an SSD is actually pretty quick, still takes a little while to boot though. I tested it on SATA 3GB/s with no AHCI though, should be way faster on SATA 6GB/s and with AHCI enabled. 

Didn't realise that the other OSes had TRIM too, but what I was meant was that right now Windows 7 is the only consumer Windows OS which supports it.


----------



## wolfeking

true that. Windows 7 is the only windows I know of, except 8, but that is not really worth it. They have like a $30 upgrade program out there now. Don't see the use. Sister is using it right now on her lappy and I have herd nothing but good things about it, but I am oldschool.


----------



## spirit

Windows 7 is a good product, I think they're releasing operating systems too quickly now. I tried Windows 8, didn't really like it, but I'm sure once/if I get it I'll get used to it and like it.


----------



## wolfeking

The way I see it, if Apple can release an OS for $30, and update it every year, then M$ can too. They charge far too much, and really need some more competition, but apple will never release OSX onto mass market, so we pay the price.


----------



## linkin

30 pages of suggestions...  no way I can read that all. Judging by your sig, you got a 2600K and some other stuff.

I'd say grab an SSD. I have a 60GB drive and I have 20GB free. I'll probably upgrade to a 90GB or 120GB one. The Force 3 is an awesome drive though.


----------



## claptonman

Just so you know, all versions of windows have english, german, french, and spanish, so if one of those 3 are the ones you're looking at, you'd be fine with Pro.


----------



## wolfeking

Mainly looking for Italian, but I can make due with english or german. 

And more or less, vista, jonny, and I have been trying to figure out what fits just right. I am horrible at making up my mind, but its been going forward for a couple of months. 

I think I am going for a 120 GB SSD. Just to have a fair bit of extra space. Then I got the 1TB drive and 640GB drive, so it will have plenty of storage space.


----------



## spirit

Definitely go for a 120GB drive over a 60GB one. The Force 3 is a good drive, but the M4 and SanDisk Extreme are on paper the faster drives. 

The 1TB drive and a 640GB drive will be enough for storage, and VMs.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, so lets see how this is going. I think I will do it this way, say what the destination is, so we can determine a roadmap to get there. 

2x GTX480

OC 2600k to 4.3 or greater 

3TB RAID array, probably RAID 0 or 5/0+1 however it does it 

SSD in RAID 0 (if your going epic fast, why not all the way?) 

16-32GB DDR3-1600 

New case, looking at the 650D and "Vengeance Series CC-9011018-WW Military Green". Not sure which is better 

PSU, want indivudal sleeved cables, or at least one that is black all the way to the connector on both ends. I think the CX1200 was like that. 

5.1 speakers and sound card 

maybe watercooling, depends on what I can get off O2.  

I knwo what I want this month, but not sure how to go ahead with the rest. Maybe case, PSU, and GTX480, maybe a 3TB in sept, and the rest in october? Does that sound good to you vista?


----------



## spirit

I think you're spending money where it's not needed, for example the SSD RAID-0 array. SSDs are crazy fast anyway, I very much doubt you'll notice the difference between a single SSD running on SATA 6GB/s compared to two drives striped. When you stripe (ie, "put in RAID-0") two SSDs, you lose support for TRIM I believe. I know you're going to be using Vista and not 7 so this isn't really a big deal, but if you want to use Windows 7 or something newer in the future, that may be a disadvantage. The point is a single SSD would be fast enough.

3TB of storage, good. I'd do a RAID-1 or RAID-5 setup myself over a RAID-0 for storage. RAID-1 and 5 are more secure as all your drives are mirrored, so if one fails, you've still got an exact clone of the drive on the other disk, meaning your data is fine. One thing I'd love to do one day for my rig is grab another 2TB disk when they get cheap again and then stick it in RAID-1 with my current disk.

Bear in mind with RAID-1 you're 3TB disks would equal 1.5TB of storage. 1.5TB is still enough I reckon. Guessing you're going for 3x1TB disks?

CX1200, great power supply, would be way more than enough for two 480s. 

As for the cases, the 650D looks to be the better case with the better cable management features, and I know cable management is a big thing for you. The other case also looks good, but I wouldn't go for a green one - the colour is all your choice though so I won't have a say on that. Given the choice, I'd probably go for the 650D, but remember the other one is cheaper.

Go for 16GB of RAM via 2x8GB DIMMs now, get 32GB later if you like.

Rest looks good.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, I still do not have a full understanding of the ins and outs of SSDs, but let me justify it before I trash the idea. They may be fast, yes. But they are also mega amounts of small. I would rather stripe them to get 240 than to buy a 240/250. Main reason is that if I need or want to get one out, I can still have one in there. And there is little to no price difference depending on the exact drives. 

no, going 2x3 TB. They are only 169, which is really cheaper than going 3x1 at 99 a piece.  nut it may end up 4x3TB, but either way I want it to equal 6TB of space that I can store the entire federal government if need be on.  Or I may ditch RAID and just go 2x3TB and use them as indivudal drives like I have now. I could keep data separate that way. 

Plan is to use the 1TB when I get the 120GB drive to store a direct image of the system with all drivers and games installed, so if need be I can just reimage the drive to recover in an hour or so instead of 60+ hours as it takes now. 

I am not sure I like the CX1200 really. I can get a 1000 watt OCZ with indivudal sleeving for cheaper, and it does not have that ever annoying netting stuff on them. I know both your and my OCZ units have the netting covers, and they suck to look at, don't you think? 

I think I will go for the 650D, but it is still up in the air. going to research them more before I decide on anything. What I should have done that with the 912, as I could have gotten better for less money, not to say the 912 is a bad case. 

I think I am going to stick to 2x4 now to make it all add up to 16 and see how it goes. If I need more then I can swap out for a 16 gb 2x8 set later. The 2x4 would go to sisters computer then.


----------



## spirit

Wolfe, once you stripe SSDs, you cannot remove a drive and still expect Windows to run perfectly. What striping does is write the data alternatively between the drives, so effectively you end up with half of your files on one drive, and the other half of your files on the other drive - but they're not full files if you get what I mean? If you wanted to remove a drive and put it in another computer, you'd need to format both drives and then reinstall Windows onto each drive each in their respective computers, if you get me? 

Basically you can't install Windows on the array, then remove one of the drives and still expect Windows to work properly.

I'd RAID your hard drives, possibly use RAID-1 or maybe another RAID type. You want one which mirrors/backs-up drives, not RAID-0 for storage.

Windows 7 backups/imaging has worked well for me, it's definitely so much quicker than reinstalling and the good thing for me is everything is all ready installed, activated, updated etc, so it's pretty much good to go.

1000W would power two 480s just fine and if the OCZ unit is cheaper I'd say go for it. To be honest I've never really given a second thought as to how my power cables look because my PC sits on the floor and I hardly ever look at it, that's why I'm not too concerned about my pretty rubbish cable management.


----------



## wolfeking

it requires wiping the drive and reinstalling. I am not a complete idiot. I know how RAID works, well a medium level of understanding.  I was mainly saying that with 2 drives, if I get say a laptop in the future that I want a SSD in, that it becomes a simple reinstall versus waiting and waiting for a drive to come and then reinstall.  If you catch my drift. 

I look at my cables all the time. I never leave well enough alone. And I like to leave the side open just to see it.  


after though. Do you know if a DVI-i port on a card support DVI-d? The 480 I have only has DVI-i, and all the 1080p monitors i was looking at are DVI-d. Id hate to buy a monitor I can't use.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> No offense intended, but wtf is dolby. I mean I see it advertised on some of my games, and my TV has it, but what makes it better? Is it worth the money to support it?
> 
> 
> I like that Asus card, but it needs a PCIe power. So I will need to wait till I can get a new power supply as both my PCIe powers are tied up in my 480.
> 
> 
> Okay, let me put it like  this. If it is over $50, I am not buying it from Amazon. I have not had good luck from them in the past.
> What is wrong with the 5.1 system from newegg? the main thing is that it is mountable with machine screws, and uses standard speaker cable so I can get it up easy and if necessary, get longer cables from a local store.  a 2.1 system is not wanted at all. They are gutless and not worth investing in.



Nothing wrong with 5.1 from newegg but some other computer speaker 5.1 have problem except for logistec.  The motherboard you plan to buy it have optical fiber which it might support dobly and DTS.  Sound card is good for connection to theater system.  Also to use dolby digital from game and music, it can only work via HDMI or optical fiber cable.  Dolby is decoder to make pure sound and surround.  



wolfeking said:


> it requires wiping the drive and reinstalling. I am not a complete idiot. I know how RAID works, well a medium level of understanding.  I was mainly saying that with 2 drives, if I get say a laptop in the future that I want a SSD in, that it becomes a simple reinstall versus waiting and waiting for a drive to come and then reinstall.  If you catch my drift.
> 
> I look at my cables all the time. I never leave well enough alone. And I like to leave the side open just to see it.
> 
> 
> after though. Do you know if a DVI-i port on a card support DVI-d? The 480 I have only has DVI-i, and all the 1080p monitors i was looking at are DVI-d. Id hate to buy a monitor I can't use.



DVI-I port on video card can support DVI-A, DVI-D or DVI-I cable.


----------



## wolfeking

Jamebonds1 said:


> Nothing wrong with 5.1 from newegg but some other computer speaker 5.1 have problem except for logistec.  Sound card is good for connection to theater system.  Also to use dolby digital it can be only work via HDMI or optical fiber cable.  Dolby is decoder to make pure sound and surround.


So basically it is not going to matter if it supports dolby or not as none of the ones I was looking at are optical or HDMI. 




> DVI-I port on video card can support DVI-A, DVI-D or DVI-I cable.


noted. Thanks.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> So basically it is not going to matter if it supports dolby or not as none of the ones I was looking at are optical or HDMI.
> 
> 
> 
> noted. Thanks.



No problem   Not all game support dolby.  Motherboard without dolby onboard might be better for you. Then in future if you want dolby then you can put sound card later.  Also to get Dolby TrueHD, it can be only work via HDMI that from video card or sound card with jumper HDMI.


----------



## wolfeking

Well I am definately getting the UD5H, so I am not sure if it supports it or not. But the plan for now is to get an ok 2.1 set for musik and games for a bit, then down the road get a sound card and the 5.1 set.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> Well I am definately getting the UD5H, so I am not sure if it supports it or not. But the plan for now is to get an ok 2.1 set for musik and games for a bit, then down the road get a sound card and the 5.1 set.



You can check if your sound device can support or not by go to tray icon.  Right click on speaker then open playback device.  Right click on any speaker you're used then go to properties.  Go to supported format tab.  Dolby or dts list should be there.


----------



## wolfeking

I don't think I am going to worry about dolby. It sounds like a big load of extra stuff for possibly little gain. And I know for sure the H61DE/S3 does not have it. Its an El cheapo substitute board. Stable and useful, but cheap.


----------



## spirit

Nah I wouldn't worry about Dolby. You never know, you may get the UD5H and on the onboard sound may be fine. My Dad has the UD5H, sound is fine, so I'd say don't worry about a sound card right now.


----------



## wolfeking

Well, at a certain point I will need something better. that is always guaranteed, but that may be a bit off.


----------



## Jamebonds1

Like I say, dolby onboard isn't really important if just for gaming.  If want dolby in future, can getting sound card which is better than my dolby onboard.  I have old dolby home theater.  THX TruStudio Pro is better than dolby home theater.


----------



## wolfeking

well, I am not really worried too much. As long as it sounds fairly good, then I am fine with it. 

okay, Keep forgetting to update, but List adopted for changes. 







links from spreadsheet
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121019
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thin...ov05&hash=item4ab86ef8ec&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1287


----------



## jonnyp11

if you do buy that lappy make sure to grab some extra RAM, i'd get at least 2 more gb's


----------



## wolfeking

I have 4GB of DDR2 here already, so not an issue.  Im not really sure what I want though. I would really like a lappy that can do some light gaming, BF2, Global operations, MOHAA or the like at a good resolution and maxxed, but I do have the M90 here that I could do that with.  Also need something with killer battery life and pretty fast boot to run word and N band internet at school. Might get a cheaper T60 with integrated graphics for that. But again, not sure if the T60 is SATA. know the T61p is.


----------



## wolfeking

edit for removal of unnecessary excess. Not sure where to go now. 






says it all there. Still looking for what to do with the excess as far as a laptop goes. I have one that overheats, and one that works excellent, but weighs a ton, so might use them, or get something really battery efficient, but don't know what that would be yet. Suggestions?


----------



## spirit

I think a T60 14.1" would be good. It has SATA so you can install an SSD and the smaller screen size shouldn't mean it weighs too much. Upgradeable to 4GB of DDR2 RAM too. See http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60 for more on that. You'd want one with a Core 2 Duo, not a Core 2 Solo if you can help it.

There's always an X60s if you need to go even smaller, but you start o lose resolution then - not sure how well you'd do with a 1024x768 12.1!" TFT. :/ Has SATA though. http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X60s

Keep with the UD5H by the way - surely we've figured everything out for your desktop now?


----------



## wolfeking

not everything, but everything I can for now. 

got 30/3 MB internet sometime today when the cable man decided to show. UD5H should net me pretty well. Next up is a nother 480, and a PSU with a case. But I really want to get a LCD now too.  

I have pretty much settled for this month on the desktop and went forward with trying to find what I need for school, seeing as I can do everything I want on the desktop right now minus OC, as no voltage control. I can try 38*100 again ,as I have not tried that since the OS issues were sorted. 

Ill take a look out for some T60s and see whats out there. If all else fails, I can get some batteries and a SSD and use what I have till i can find a really good laptop.


----------



## wolfeking

something like this? 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Lenovo-...ov05&hash=item2ebe983d69&_uhb=1#ht_721wt_1139 

how would that do?  I could pull the DDR2 from the D630 and use in it, so 2GB that memtested good. 

But I would need more batteries. 

Or, I could try and fix the D630, which should just need a heatsink. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Latitu...CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item1e6ef936f3&_uhb=1
or 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Dell-La...nks&hash=item2ebffa290c&_uhb=1#ht_4117wt_1037

or the M90 would just need a SSD and battery to work. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-9-cell-...ies&hash=item231f0af296&_uhb=1#ht_1910wt_1037 

If I can keep cost down this month, I can use what I have for august and get something way better in september, yes?


----------



## wolfeking

okay. Last list and it needs to be good enough. If not, then start trimming parts. 







http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-9-Cell-...ies&hash=item27c68cf9f5&_uhb=1#ht_2460wt_1270
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128545
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121019


----------



## wolfeking

okay vista. Figured out more or less what I am going to do. 

D630, while it is still running ever so hot, has its issue narrowed down to a exact point. I know the heatsink is damaged. I know that from personal inspection. So I need that.  But running sfc /scannow resulted in corrupted files. So good enough, I know my 7 disk was causing the issue as it did the same dang thing on the desktop. 
Anyway, so plan now goes as drop the M90 batteries, replace them with one of the ones below, and get a 30 or maybe 60 GB SSD and run 7 on it again, maybe XP if I go to the 30GB drive, as I want to keep BF2, MOH:AA, and Global Operations (old but ever so fine a game) on there, as well as word, and when I find one, the drivers to a prepaid wireless card. 

so budget stays the same as above, except changing the hard drive to either http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233266 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227812 

batteries dropped from above to http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-cell-BAT...t=Laptop_Batteries&hash=item41522a55ed&_uhb=1 or http://www.ebay.com/itm/NW-9-cell-B...t=Laptop_Batteries&hash=item20b9c3c0c6&_uhb=1 
plan to have quite a few so I can run it as long as I can. 

also need http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Latitu...LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb467eb1b&_uhb=1 to repair the overheating issue. 

the following is planned, but depends on money. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DELL-D6...p_Docking_Stations&hash=item5649dad2bd&_uhb=1
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keyboard-Sk...eyboard_Protectors&hash=item1c1cd20071&_uhb=1 

should be fine, yes?


----------



## spirit

OK I'd get the 120GB OCZ drive given the choice between that and the Nova. 120GB is enough space for an installation of Windows and several games. 

The 3TB Seagate drive is a good choice and the speakers are decent. 

As far as the batteries are concerned, generally you want the highest number of cells and the most mA possible, so if you can (and don't mind about the extra bulk and weight), I'd go for the 12 cell 8800mA battery. Would hold a good charge I reckon.

Yep, get that heatsink if it will sort out overheating issues, for 3 bucks, there's no reason not to.


----------



## wolfeking

vistakid10 said:


> OK I'd get the 120GB OCZ drive given the choice between that and the Nova. 120GB is enough space for an installation of Windows and several games.



Thats what I was thinking. The price difference is not that great either, so $/byte is less by quite a margin on the 120. 



> The 3TB Seagate drive is a good choice and the speakers are decent.


That was the original plan. I can fix the laptop, or get the 3TB, so at this point I am going for the laptop.  I have more or less enough space on my 1TB for a while as long as I pay attention to what I am loading on there. 


> As far as the batteries are concerned, generally you want the highest number of cells and the most mA possible, so if you can (and don't mind about the extra bulk and weight), I'd go for the 12 cell 8800mA battery. Would hold a good charge I reckon.


okay, that clears up any misunderstand that I may have had. I don't mind the extra bulk with the battery. It will still be a heck of a lot more light than the M90. I swear they built the M90 out of plate steel or something thats hidden. I did not see it when I disassembled to clean it, but that don't mean it aint there. 



> Yep, get that heatsink if it will sort out overheating issues, for 3 bucks, there's no reason not to.


I am hoping it will sort the issues with the heat. Im getting ready to dump windows and run crunchbang on it for a bit to see how much heat it is outputting exactly. If I can stop the crashing then it will be an execellent system once again.


----------



## spirit

If you don't mind about the bulk then yeah, go for the 12-cell 8800mAH battery. That's not the say the 9-cell 7800mAH wouldn't be enough though, that'd still be fine, but if it's the longest charge possible which you're after, common sense tells me the 12-cell 8800 is the one to go for. 

If the cause of the random crashes are heat-related, then yep replacing the heatsink should definitely sort it.

So, we must've figured out by now almost what you want then?


----------



## wolfeking

I think so. working on it anyway, pretty much sorted for this month anyway. 

I think the crashing is mainly from the OS corruption.  I was going to test that with a linux distro, but I forgot about it today. :/.  Ill figure it out though. 

And I think i will get teh 12 cell. Should effectively double the life of a new 6 cell, yes?


----------



## FuryRosewood

Ive had a laptop overheat totally brick a installation of windows after 1 single overheat. The kicker was i was on the road at the time and was not going to be home in michigan for a week


----------



## wolfeking

Well, I am 99% sure that the corruption is from the windows disk as the install disk screwed up the desktop too.   Working on it right now.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> I am hoping it will sort the issues with the heat.



As laptop repair experience, if you have often overheat issued.  It can be fan control problem.  If it is heatsink issued, you should see a broke fin, some melted metal and pipe become dark.  I know dell has overheat problem since fan can be broke easy.

Also Vista windows often cause overheat CPU issue since it use a lot of CPU and RAM.


----------



## wolfeking

james, it has scratches on the face of the heatsink. I noticed that when I cleaned it and reseated with AS5.   Don't worry about it. I will fix it and it will be fine.


----------



## wolfeking

okay. Should be the last list for this month. 

As of now, downloading 10.04.3 to install to the D630. Already disabled multicore support in BIOS and enabled speedstep and all the other power save features there. 

anyway, list. 
Pay mum back.   130 more or less 
School stuff. 130 
UD5H  190
Speakers 27
Dock  40
Keyboard cover 3
Heatsink  6
Battery  2 of them  54
SSD 100 

so If I added right that is $176 left over for whatever is needed or leave it put for later.


----------



## spirit

Sounds like you're getting somewhere now. 

As for the question "will a 12-cell battery effectively hold double the charge of a 6-cell battery?", I'm not sure. I think it depends on the mAH more than the cells.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, cool enough.  I can run more or less 90 ish minutes on one of my 6 cell batteries, so should be good on the 12 cell.  All I have at school this semester is English, Help desk, PE, and band, so 90 mutes a day is fine, but band trips are quite long sometimes, so want to double the 90 minutes. should be great I rekon. 

And yep, getting there slowly.


----------



## spirit

Well what you've got here


			
				wolfeking's 'to buy' list said:
			
		

> Pay mum back. 130 more or less
> School stuff. 130
> UD5H 190
> Speakers 27
> Dock 40
> Keyboard cover 3
> Heatsink 6
> Battery 2 of them 54
> SSD 100


Seems fine to me. I'd say go ahead and order it all when you've got the money. 

Getting two of those batteries is a good idea too.


----------



## wolfeking

okay. Should be good to go now. Now the killer part, waiting the 3 weeks to get it.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> okay. Should be good to go now. Now the killer part, waiting the 3 weeks to get it.



Waiting's always the worst bit. :/ But yep, I'd say go for it.


----------



## wolfeking

[email protected]#$  it!  okay, the D630 installed ubuntu 10.04.3 just fine. Connected to the internet. Ran 1 core at 800 MHz just fine.  Left it sitting on the ubuntu desktop for about 30 minutes and it completely crashed the video. Ill try it again and get a pic this time.

From the feel of it, the GPU is probably hitting north of 100*.  Might have to go in and manually edit the vBIOS to get it permanently down to 250 or so to cool off.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> james, it has scratches on the face of the heatsink. I noticed that when I cleaned it and reseated with AS5.   Don't worry about it. I will fix it and it will be fine.



I have never replace heatsink to make it better for laptop but it should help.  Also do you see fan spin when you turn it on?


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> [email protected]#$  it!  okay, the D630 installed ubuntu 10.04.3 just fine. Connected to the internet. Ran 1 core at 800 MHz just fine.  Left it sitting on the ubuntu desktop for about 30 minutes and it completely crashed the video. Ill try it again and get a pic this time.
> 
> From the feel of it, the GPU is probably hitting north of 100*.  Might have to go in and manually edit the vBIOS to get it permanently down to 250 or so to cool off.


Definitely sounds like some sort of heat-related issue. A picture of what happens would be good.


----------



## wolfeking

Im going to fire it up and see if I can duplicate the screen that it did.  Be back with pics if it does it again.


----------



## spirit

Or I guess it could just be bad driver support for Ubuntu? That would seem odd though as I doubt the drivers would just randomly crash if the machine was sitting there doing nothing at all. Was the same sort of thing happening in Windows a lot too?


----------



## wolfeking

windows was BSODing. Had it reading as a video card issue, but again there was corrupted files in windows.  Not really sure. 

It was not a driver, as I had yet to install nvidia drivers on it.


----------



## spirit

OK hearing that I'm going to conclude it's most likely hardware-related - overheating.


----------



## wolfeking

its up and running now. Shouldn't be long to get a pic. should be under an hour.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, my camera does not have the ability to catch detail fine enough to show much, but here is a pic. Looks solid blue, but those are black and blue squigally lines.


----------



## spirit

I can just about make them out. It's probably an overheating issue, or the graphics chip itself is dying, but more likely overheating I'd say - especially if you suspect the heatsink is damaged.


----------



## wolfeking

I don't suspect it, I know it is.


----------



## Jamebonds1

How is your fan flow?  Is it hot air?


----------



## wolfeking

james, your trying to diagnose a problem that we already know what it is. Please stop.


----------



## wolfeking

I have gave up on thee D630. Running it with seriously cold air blowing right on it from the AC does not help, and currently it starts with the video crashed like shown earlier.  Rekon the video is failed. but oh well.  More to put into the desktop now. 

So plan is to take what I can with my current system, then put it all in a better case and be done.  Just buy a new lappy to replace the D630 later.  A thinkpad or E series, maybe a precision 15". Not really sure that is for later. 

So currently looking as far as computer parts as going with: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352017
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128545
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100008

and probably 
http://www.amazon.com/CB-24P-Single...d=1342246665&sr=8-1&keywords=24+pin+extension
http://www.amazon.com/CB-8P-8-Pin-M...d=1342246665&sr=8-3&keywords=24+pin+extension
http://www.amazon.com/CB-6V-6-Pin-E...d=1342246665&sr=8-9&keywords=24+pin+extension
http://www.amazon.com/CB-8V-45-Indi...d=1342246768&sr=8-11&keywords=8+pin+extension

seeing as my cables are barely long enough for my current case and the ones I am looking at are a lot bigger. 


Anything you would change or add or just not get or the like?


----------



## spirit

All looks like good stuff Wolfe. That's a good choice of case, I'm looking at possibly getting the smaller version of that case for myself or an NZXT Phantom (but I know you don't like the Phantom all that much). Good choice of board too. 

Cable extensions look all right. They're sleeved, they'll look fine.

It's all good if you ask me.


----------



## wolfeking

I think it should work pretty good, but just hoping at this point.  

Still looking at cases though. Not sure on the one I posted.


----------



## spirit

The one you posted is fine, it's a good case. Why aren't you sure about it?


----------



## wolfeking

Its big,  and may not be the most structurally stable thing out there. 

The main thing is that you can never be sure till you test it yourself.  When I first built a while ago, i went with teh HAF 912 based on reviews and recommendations on here. And that was a mistake. Its a horrid case with a bad feature set for its price.  I don't want to end up doing that again.


----------



## spirit

You can always get the Define R3 which is the smaller version of that case if you think the XL is too large. I've been hearing good things about the Phantom which is why I'm considering one. I've also heard that sometimes those Fractal Design cases can be a bit weak too. Choosing a case is so hard it seems. 

Have you looked into Lian-Li's offerings? I know Voyagerfan has one of these http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112239&Tpk=pc-k62 and he says that's a good case. Apparently Lian-Li make some quite high quality cases.


----------



## wolfeking

No offense to Li Lan, but it seems to be a lot of price for few features. 

I don't mind a big case. I want a big case. But what I was saying is that it may not be really strong. Which should not be an issue, but I look at it from a engineers view point. So, yea.  

Found some others too, but they may not be strong either.  
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811345004
looks okay, but not the best. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146094 
Really nice case and I like gunmetal. Not sure if its a painted look, or actual gunmetal. Either way, looks cool. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146089 
Black version.  Says it is steel and plastic, but that means little without real numbers to go with it. 

i like the review they did, and it is pretty heavy, so means it should be fairly strong.


----------



## spirit

I agree with you about Lian-Li.

The Bitfenix looks all right, but I prefer the NZXT. The gunmetal one does look good.

Have you looked into the Obsidians? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...NodeId=1&Description=corsair+obsidian&x=0&y=0


----------



## wolfeking

the 650D looks like a good case, but it is quite a bit more than the switch 810.  Not sure which would be better.


----------



## spirit

Well it looks to me like the Switch has better cable management features (more grommets to put cables through), but the Corsair is probably better built.


----------



## wolfeking

well cable management is all well and good, but are they going to be like the 912 where running the cables behind the plate ends in needing a tire iron to remove the left panel? 

I like the switch in gunmetal. I will probably get that one.


----------



## spirit

Cable management in the Switch and the 650D should be better than in the HAF 912. You should easily fit all the cables behind the board without having to force the left panel on.


----------



## wolfeking

thats a relief then. I hate having to force the panel on. 

Might be stupid question , but are they both sizable enough to run 480 SLI with some room around them?


----------



## spirit

Yep I reckon they should be big enough. Your 480 is only 10" long, right? So long as there no drive bays obstructing card clearance, two 480s should fit in there fine.


----------



## wolfeking

yea, its only about 10 inches long.  I think the switch gunmetal is what I am going with.  Should fit what I need.


----------



## spirit

Just remembered that the Switch is an E-ATX case, so you should definitely be able to fit two 480s in there. Doesn't look like anything is obstructing where the graphics cards would go anyway, so yeah. Should be fine.


----------



## wolfeking

knowing it is eATX, which I did not notice, then I can go to a sniper (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128552) and have a much better board that would allow 3 way SLI as the original plan was, and still have one to dedicate to physics.   Plus the price is not that much more considering it comes with a quite good Wifi add in with external antenna.  

So I think what I will do now is get the case and speaker. And get the motherboard after that. Should be fine going that way. Can get a SSD or 3TB drive in place of the UD5H too.


----------



## spirit

Sounds like a good plan. The Sniper's a good board. Didn't realise it came with a wi-fi adapter with an antenna, pretty cool. 

The Switch apparently supports XL-ATX too, so two 480s should categorically fit in there.


----------



## wolfeking

I think they will fit well.  It just dawned on me that the 480, while hotter, is smaller than the 5870 and probably the 6900 and 580 series too. Good card. 

It looks like an epic board. Not much on expansion over the graphics cards, but I don't need anything else at this point. USB for floppy. IDE can be had in the BIOS.  should all be good. 

Might get a bluray drive if I can find one. Or preorder warfighter. not sure yet.  Think the plan is together now.


----------



## spirit

Yes the 480 is a shorter card than the 5870 and most likely the 6970 too. Not sure if it's smaller than a 580 though.

I have a Blu-Ray drive in my system.  Blu-Rays play very nicely on my system and they look beautiful on my 24" monitor.


----------



## wolfeking

Well, I am not sure I need one. Nice to have, but I don't really see the need until movies start moving away from DVD.  Heck as is most of my musik is on Cassette tape and most of my movies are VHS.  like Ive said time and time again, Im old school.  

Really been looking for a turntable with cassette and CD, but they are hard to find, or Im not looking right.  But that is OT here. 

Do you foresee a need for Bluray in the near future?


----------



## spirit

Bit of German there, Musik?  

What you want is a stack stereo, you can probably get one from eBay if you're interested. My parents have a stack stereo up in the loft which plays LPs, CDs and cassettes I think. It looks awesome but it's massive and heavy!

Ummm... as for Blu-Ray. There is a difference between DVD and BR quality, but as most films are still available on DVD, there's probably not a need yet. BR drives are still quite expensive (mine was just under £50), so I'd probably wait until they get cheaper. Then you can most likely get a BR-RW as they will have gotten much cheaper too.

If you ask me though, physical discs such as CDs, DVDs and BRs are a dying technology. Digital downloads and solid state memory are going to replace them I reckon.


----------



## wolfeking

I always spell that wrong. That and Afrika.  

Stack stereo. Ill look for that.  

I know. But I do not think it will happen too fast. I mean games are already there just about. But I don't foresee the next 5 or so years having complete download only movies and musik. There are too many that still use the physical media.


----------



## spirit

Sometimes German slips into my English too. Taking a GCSE in it next year, been studying it for almost 3 years. 

I did a quick search for a stack stereo on eBay, not much came up. You need one with a turntable, a cassette player and a CD player. I don't know of any model numbers or brand names I'm afraid.  You'd need something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/pioneer-s..._Amplifiers&hash=item19d2dc6df2#ht_500wt_1413 the stereo my parents have isn't that big I don't think and I know it's on UK eBay, may be worth seeing if there's any for sale on the US eBay. The one my parents have is this one I think http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-HIFI...ems_Combos&hash=item2a1fe5affa#ht_1452wt_1396 I know it's a Sony.

Blu-Ray movies are getting cheaper and cheaper, but the BR drives for the PCs are still quite expensive. I'd probably just wait for now and see how quickly the drives get cheaper, and then when they become cheaper, go for it.


----------



## wolfeking

I think I will finish my system, and save blueray as the last thing if I decide I like it. 

Those systems look nice, but i think they are older ones.  I was looking for something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jensen-JTA-...rs_Home_Turntables&hash=item4ab9b0ac8e&_uhb=1.  Its still quite expensive, but it is not really that bad for all it has.


----------



## spirit

Yeah the other stuff is more important than a Blu-Ray drive. 

The stereos I found are very nineties.  But I guess that's when people wanted those sort of stereos. The one you found seems fine, has everything you need I guess. 

I'm gonna go and take some shots of my PC now, I'll be back in a bit.


----------



## wolfeking

cool. 

I think I will grab one if they are on there when I have money. 

The plan is coming together. I guess it works like this now. 

Pay mum back 
Get school stuffs 
Case 
Speakers 
AS5 (maybe, depends on if I need more than I have) 

Might get: 
turntable radio thing. 
DVD drive


----------



## wolfeking

Magic enclosed jason.


----------



## spirit

Whoa! You mean the Z77 Extreme4 is working? 

I've just seen your overclocking thread, I'll take a look at it. Sorry for the late reply, thought I'd re-arrange my desk and do some cable management whilst I was at it.


----------



## wolfeking

no issue at all.  

and yea. Surprising enough.  I took the case apart, undone cable management and everything, put it back together with 1 DIMM and the Celeron with stock cooler and it booted right up. Then powered off and put the 2600k and 212 in there and it still booted up.   Don't know what the heck was causing the no boot before, but apparently it was not the board itself.  May have shorted against the case or something.  Funky stuff here.


----------



## spirit

Probably shorting on something then, or maybe just wasn't installed correctly? Are you still going to go ahead and get the Sniper now then?


----------



## wolfeking

Probably. But it will go farther down the list since this one has 8/8 SLI.  

not really sure about it. Holding hope, but not expecting anything from this board. 

Think what I will do is just get the speakers and save the rest this month now, that way i can get the case, extra 480, and PSU all at the same time.


----------



## spirit

Will be interesting to see what you think of the Extreme4 once you've used it for a while.


----------



## wolfeking

Ill still say they could have laid out the CMOS/BIOS/UEFI better than they did. There was nothing wrong with the simple blue screen that had been around for years. I think it is up and running @ 4GHz on 1.250V with turbo off. That is all fine. 

Support system needs work seriously.


----------



## spirit

Hmm the UEFI BIOS on my ASUS looks nice and is easy to navigate. I do agree though there wasn't anything wrong with the older style BIOSes.


----------



## wolfeking

Well, there is nothing wrong with looking nice. but it looks all in the world like they were trying to maxx the looks without even putting 10 seconds into how it functions. 
I guess Im in the few that believe in function over ascetics. 

Bad news is that it is maxed at 4GHz even on all cores.  Powerful, yes.  Intel burn test on "very high" netted a top temp of 97*C on core 3. Feels a bit high. but at least stable.


----------



## spirit

97C is too hot really. What temps are the other cores running at and what software are you using to monitor the temps?


----------



## wolfeking

85-92 and coretemp. Has never led me astray before.  Should I try the extreme tuner app built for this board to see the temps and rerun it?


----------



## spirit

Something's not right if you're getting temps that high with a 212 and a 2600K @ 4.0GHz. Could try running that Extreme Tuner thing, worth a try.


----------



## wolfeking

Could it be that the cooler is pulling air from off the GPU? I can shut it down and turn it to pull from the front and thus blow out the back. 

Extreme tuner is showing 94* with FAH running.  Shut down FAH and its running ~50* currently. Seems off though, as that is only 10* 100% use at stock.


----------



## spirit

Yes, those 480s aren't known to be the coolest of cards, so I would try rotating your cooler to make sure it isn't pulling from your 480 or anything else which runs out and then see if the temps are any better.


----------



## wolfeking

okay. Moving it. Be back in a bit.


----------



## MyCattMaxx

Pulling heat from the GPU is one of the 2 reasons I rotated mine to flow from front to rear.
The second reason was my PS being mounted up top.

50c does seem to be extremely high at idle.
And if you aren't folding I wouldn't think you would pull much heat from the 480.
Before my FX MB died it idled around 11-13c.


----------



## wolfeking

Well my room is about 90*F right now. The 480 was running at 50* so that adds to the issue probably.  Don't know.


----------



## spirit

Have you moved it yet? Temps should be quite a bit lower if it's not pulling heat off your GPU.


----------



## wolfeking

working on it.   Sorry, it did 91 updates before it shut down. Guess I forgot to turn them off.


----------



## spirit

Gotta love Windows update. :/


----------



## wolfeking

I hate it with a passion.  Going to fire it up in a second.


----------



## wolfeking

on run 5 of 10 with burn test. I like what it is doing currently. 62 on core 1, 64 on core 2, 70 on core 3 and 64 on core 4, and the HT threads reading the same temps as th parent core naturally.  

Rock solid stable. 45* on the 480 now too.   

Should I try 4.2 or 4.4 maybe? or leave it well enough be. 

And note I lowered the vCore to 1.210V.


----------



## spirit

Much better CPU temps there Wolfe. 65-70C at full load is normal. 

You can try pushing it to 4.2 if you like, I reckon you may be able to do 4.2 with 1.210v, but 4.4 may require a tiny bit of extra voltage. If you bump the voltage up a tiny bit (try 1.220v for 4.4 perhaps) you shouldn't notice your temps increase too much, maybe by about 2C or so.


----------



## wolfeking

would the extra 400 MHz be worthwhile to have?


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> would the extra 400 MHz be worthwhile to have?



Depends. For gaming, not really, for anything very CPU intensive, maybe. I've got my 2500K at 4.3GHz - I reckon any higher and I wouldn't see a difference.


----------



## wolfeking

Well, most of what it does it sit here folding. Gaming I am not worried because bone stock everything I max everything I have. That will change when I go 1080p, but it will still do very well. 

Have yet to model anything with blender yet on this processor, but it runs bloody fast on my M90, so it will not be noticable with any OC.  

Ill try [email protected] 1.220 and see if it is stable and still in about 70*. If it is then I will let well enough alone.


----------



## spirit

OK yep try 4.5. 1.2v should be enough I reckon. You may want to stress test that for a couple of hours though, just to confirm.


----------



## wolfeking

What do I use to test it for hours? and I am guessing I should pull out a movie or fire up a game on the M90 to keep from using it while stress testing it?


----------



## spirit

Use Prime95 to stress test it. If you use the blend test within P95 I believe it stresses RAM too.

You may wanna watch a few movies, I'd say you want to test it for around 3-4 hours.


----------



## Jamebonds1

vistakid10 said:


> Use Prime95 to stress test it. If you use the blend test within P95 I believe it stresses RAM too.
> 
> You may wanna watch a few movies, I'd say you want to test it for around 3-4 hours.



I was going say same thing lol.  I use Prime95 a lot to test my overclock.


----------



## wolfeking

okay. Will do.


----------



## jonnyp11

I'd leave it there, don't want to pass 70, but then again you'll never hit 70 under normal circumstances, but when the graphics card is at 80-90 degrees and that now warm air is being used by the cooler, then you might hit 70, so like i said, i'd stay there.

You can always try my H50 out, 40 bucks and it's yours


----------



## wolfeking

Trying 4.2 @ 1.25 as it would not boot at 4.4 @ 1.30.  

I think to really get the most out of this chip I will need a water cooler. Or would that help drop the OC temps?


----------



## spirit

Yeah water cooling would give you cooler temps, but 4.2 at 1.25v is fine. What temperatures are you getting now?

Sorry for the late reply, was playing some Dirt 3.


----------



## wolfeking

63,64,71,64  That is running FAH.  Intel burn test did not net much above it.  Ill run it on prime95 tonight when I go to sleep so I won't be tempted to play with it.  I think it is good. Kind of wanting to get to 4.4 as that is the 1GHz mark. 

Would a H70 or something similar be good to go up to that? Kind of afraid to go to high on Air, especially the 4.4 and 4.5 not booting at 1.30.


----------



## spirit

Those temps look fine to me - FAH runs the CPU up to 100% or around about that, right? I don't know much about FAH, maybe I should learn more and then join the team? 

Anyway, something like an H70 or an H50 should be better than air cooling and probably get you past the 4.5GHz, maybe even to 4.8 on water cooling. Remember though that your board may be limiting your overclocking potential, the Extreme4 isn't the best board out there. Certainly if you get something like the UD5H or the Sniper you should be able to overclock better. 

Nevakonaza told me by the way that sometimes the Corsair water-cooling units can be a bit noisy, not sure if anybody else has experienced this?


----------



## wolfeking

I've herd a few people complaining about that. I personally don't care how loud it is as long as it does its job.  Remember, Im a band guy that plays trumpet. Im used to loud noises.  

FAH runs it up to 100% and keeps it there. 

You could join the team. Your processor would be doing teh folding. I never could get my AMD to fold. Not sure about the 5800 series.  foldingforums would be able to help you a lot more than I could. 

Im going to run it at 4.2 for a while and see how it does before I do anything more to it. And it will be a while before I upgrade the board. At least september.


----------



## spirit

I reckon 4.2 should do you fine until you can get a new board. I think it's your board which is limited your overclocking. Your processor and cooler are more than up to the job, and you don't really want to go over 1.3v for the CPU.

I heard that Radeons didn't fold that well, so yeah, I think my 2500K would be doing all the folding. I'll have to Google and see if a 5870 can fold OK. I'm sure MyCattMaxx will probably know.


----------



## wolfeking

I think it is doing okay at 4.2.  It is a good deal faster than stock I rekon.  now as like never before the hard drive is limiting factor, yes?


----------



## spirit

Nothing bottlenecks like a hard drive does. This is where SSDs come in. 

A 2600K @ 4.2 is great. I'd leave it at that. Should be a way bit faster than at stock.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, so next up is a SSD. Should be able to get one.  

Well, I can guarentee that it should handle anything out there now. Pretty powerful system as is. And Im almost sure that no program is meant to take advantage of 8 threads at 4.2 except maybe benchmarks.


----------



## jonnyp11

OK, looked at your pics, if the top 2 fans are exhaust, you could make them intakes and turn the 212 towards them, that way cool air is going straight to the cpu, instead of cool air coming from the bottom front of the case which most of that is going to the graphics card, then that warmer air going to the 212. Also, if you have a warm room, it might cost a couple bucks but upping the A/C a bit would drop the temps. Other than that your best bet would be a new cooler, since you don't mind the noise i'd go for an upper end one if you're getting one or you can always try mine to see.

Also, if you don't, you could add some side pannel fans as intakes and leave the top 2 as exhaust.


----------



## wolfeking

My room is hot not because the AC is off but rather because I have no AC vents in my room that work. 

The top 2 being intake would mean turning the cooler yet again. Its not worth it for a few degrees difference, as that will still not make it boot on 4.4 or 4.5 @ 1.3.  Higher voltage makes lots more heat. 

If I get a water cooler, and not that I don't trust you jonny, but it will be new so it has at least some warranty and all the parts necessary to put it on anything. 

My front 2 fans are not intake at the moment. Not exhaust either. They are unpowered as I don't have both molex leads to work them and the connectors are not long enough to get to the motherboard.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> okay, so next up is a SSD. Should be able to get one.
> 
> Well, I can guarentee that it should handle anything out there now. Pretty powerful system as is. And Im almost sure that no program is meant to take advantage of 8 threads at 4.2 except maybe benchmarks.



I'd say an SSD would probably finish this system off, as well as a better motherboard. 

I certainly don't know of anything that would really take advantage of 8-threads @ 4.2 apart from maybe some video editing software and other editing software. Games certainly don't yet.


----------



## wolfeking

@ jonny, it only lowered the temps about 2 degrees.  Going to drop it to 4.3 or so and drop the volts to tuck it back under 70.

@ Jason. Hmm.. Might get one. Don't know. my dream system is not here quite done just yet. The case sucks, the user is not the best, and its not got enough storage space. Not to mention all my data, songs, pics, and stuff is on the failing Toshiba drive. Going to stick it in the M90 in a bit and see what I can recover.  Then I am going to need a quite big drive to store stuff on. But that is farther in the future.    As for now, its a SSD, and a fan to do push pull on the HSF.  That might bring the temps back down on 4.5.  I think I can do 4.3 stable and right at 70. I am getting 74 to 76 at 4.5 under burn test. 







is how its set up now. Got all fans powered now. Intake on the top and front. Exhaust out the back and 480 vent.  Temps dropped some. A little at a time.


----------



## Perkomate

I wonder what the difference between the 26-- and 25-- in terms of heat is down to. I managed 4.3 on the stock cooler. Our setups are fairly close, you've got a cool case but a hot GPU, and I've got a hot case but cool GPU... Does HT actually add heat? Weird.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:
			
		

> @ Jason. Hmm.. Might get one. Don't know. my dream system is not here quite done just yet. The case sucks, the user is not the best, and its not got enough storage space. Not to mention all my data, songs, pics, and stuff is on the failing Toshiba drive. Going to stick it in the M90 in a bit and see what I can recover. Then I am going to need a quite big drive to store stuff on. But that is farther in the future. As for now, its a SSD, and a fan to do push pull on the HSF. That might bring the temps back down on 4.5. I think I can do 4.3 stable and right at 70. I am getting 74 to 76 at 4.5 under burn test.


Get those files off the Toshiba ASAP and copy them to a working drive or a pendrive or something. 

If you go for an SSD eventually, I've used both the SanDisk Extreme 120GB and the Crucial M4 128GB. I have the Crucial myself, but the SanDisk is faster. As of today, the SanDisk is one of the very fastest out there. Beats the M4, Force 3 and just about anything else you'd consider.

Side note - your cable management is looking pretty good, better than mine!


----------



## MyCattMaxx

vistakid10 said:


> ~~snip~~
> 
> I heard that Radeons didn't fold that well, so yeah, I think my 2500K would be doing all the folding. I'll have to Google and see if a 5870 can fold OK. I'm sure MyCattMaxx will probably know.


You should be able to get it to fold but it would only be good for about 2-3k ppd from what I understand plus you will have to use one of the cpu cores to feed it and that will lower your SMP ppd.

IMHO, it wouldn't be worth the watt/ppd to run the 5870 folding.


----------



## spirit

So basically if I were to fold I'd have to do it on the 2500K?

(Sorry about the off topic btw.)


----------



## wolfeking

no worries about the OT. 

And yes, you would have to use the 2500k. It would run your 5870, but the power used and points earned would not worth it.


----------



## wolfeking

Perkomate said:


> I wonder what the difference between the 26-- and 25-- in terms of heat is down to. I managed 4.3 on the stock cooler. Our setups are fairly close, you've got a cool case but a hot GPU, and I've got a hot case but cool GPU... Does HT actually add heat? Weird.


Not really sure about that. I have HT on, and currently am running 45x100 and doing fairly well. Im testing it now and trying to get the volts down. Running 1.300 on it right now and running intel burntest for 5 runs to see about heat.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> no worries about the OT.
> 
> And yes, you would have to use the 2500k. It would run your 5870, but the power used and points earned would not worth it.



I've got a rig with a Q8300 and a 9800 GT which Maxx and I have been setting up for folding.


----------



## wolfeking

That rig should fold very well.  Running stock mine folds 164500 points a week. Not sure how the OC will fold yet as I have been testing it to determine how stable it is. 

One thing I am noticing and it may well be this board, is that the core voltage is not stable. Its set to fixed voltage @ 1.300 and it is running between 1.300 and 1.315.


----------



## wolfeking

and it is not stable.


----------



## spirit

I have a few problems with the C2Q rig though. The hard drive is failing and it runs very hot. :/ CPU maxes out at about 80C under full load and so does the graphics card. I installed some fans to try and cool it down, doesn't seem to have done a lot of difference to my temperatures though.

Your voltage issues could either be with the board or the CPU. Sometimes you get chips which just do not overclock well at all. Could be a board issue I guess.


----------



## wolfeking

Well, it seems to hold an OC pretty well. The board is questionable, as it has been practically from day one.  But eh, find out soon enough. 

Trying 4.3 @ 1.250V to see how it runs. May be more stable and cooler. And 200 MHz will not make a big difference for most things.  May get a H80 for it, not sure if it would help.  

Stupid question, but if I get a new HDD and SSD, would I be able to mount them in the optical bays like my current one is? And if so, where would I go about finding a 3.5 to optical adapter? I have used the one I have.


----------



## spirit

4.3 at 1.250V should be fine, give it a go.

You can probably get 5.25" to 3.5"/2.5" drive bay adapters yes. I have a 5.25" to 3.5" adapter in one of my PCs. You can most probably get these adapters from Newegg or eBay.


----------



## wolfeking

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811993004  looks like what I have.  Looks expensive though.   Should not bother anything much if I move the SSD and 1 HDD to the bottom of the case, below the removable cage.


----------



## wolfeking

stable, and cool enough I rekon.  Keeping this OC unless anyone sees a reason not to.


----------



## spirit

4.3GHz? That's a good overclock. I'd say there's no reason not to keep it.


----------



## jonnyp11

just don't forget you siggy, and i'd stick it on like a 20 run loop or run prime for a while overnight oneday just to be sure it is stable.


----------



## spirit

jonnyp11 said:


> just don't forget you siggy


You and signatures.  This is why I don't put my system specs in my sig.


----------



## wolfeking

Yep, running 43x100 @ 1.240V. Only thing I am noticing that is backwards to me is that at 100% load everything is kinda sluggish. snappy as all get out at idle, but 100% it no longer is. at stock it does not drag.  Might just be a quark of overclocking though. 

Finally figured out what I am getting I rekon for it this month (aug). 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227706  for the desktop.  Maybe something different if there is something faster. I notice that some are in IOPS and some in MB/s. Not sure how to convert them. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320944502617#ht_1417wt_1270  same one I wanted originally. Not quite as powerful as I want, but good enough. Should max global ops, and run everything else just fine, but not maxed. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226168 to match it. 

and a 9 cell battery.  

Should replace the D630 nicely.


----------



## spirit

Take a look at this SSD if you want pure speed http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171567&Tpk=sandisk extreme 120gb it's faster than just about anything out there right now, see the benches here http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/350?vs=425 by the way I know I compared it to a Crucial M4 but the SanDisk is about the same speed if not faster than the M4.

ThinkPad looks good, should be good with that SSD too.


----------



## wolfeking

Sure does look good.  all coming together now.  

That looks good. Not really that much more than the OCZ and faster. So should make this system almost complete.


----------



## spirit

The SanDisk is a great drive, I've used one - it's fast to say the least.


----------



## wolfeking

Fast shall make this system amazing in my eyes.  Its great now, but fast shall be better. 

I think I will go redneck though and save the $7.99 on the adapter plate and just zip tie it to the top of the hard drive. That will make it so that I only need one sata cable running off the PSU as I have now. 

Jason, do you know much about networking? Like a computer to computer transfer over the same network?


----------



## spirit

Once you've used an SSD as a main boot drive you will never want to go back to a hard drive. It's the best thing you can really do to increase your computer's performance IMO.

I know a bit about networking, can always ask my Dad and get back to you if you have any questions. Networking is what he does.


----------



## wolfeking

I have herd that often. I think it will make a great difference, but I will still probably end up on a HDD at some point in the future, be it in a laptop, or running different OSs on this one. 

And the networking question is in the thread http://www.computerforum.com/213088-network-transfer.html 
Thanks for any help you can provide.


----------



## spirit

OK I will take a look at your thread and see if I can lend a hand. Networking isn't my strongest subject, I'd like to learn about networking and servers really. Could just ask Dad to teach me a bit.  

I only have an SSD in one of my machines, the 2500K rig, all the others I have have HDDs. The SSD is noticeably quicker, especially at booting into Windows and especially at just doing things like installing updates for Windows and opening programs.


----------



## wolfeking

Sounds good. 

And I know they will be better. On the reinstall on the SSD I am not doing windows updates other than the German LP and DX11. Otherwise don't really need them. Been years since I have regularly done updates unless they directly fixed issues I have. 
Boot times will be good. Especially with the laptop.


----------



## spirit

On the SanDisk with SATA 6GB/s and AHCI enabled in the BIOS, you'd get about 10-15 second Windows 7 boot ups I reckon. On the laptop with 3GB/s more like 20-25 seconds probably.

I've run my M4 on both 3GB/s and 6GB/s connections, they were the boot times I got. SanDisk will likely be a bit faster.


----------



## wolfeking

how will that work with Vista SP2? I rekon the boot times would be about the same, so amazing. Im starting to get there. Next up is a full tower case and full water. Little at a time.


----------



## spirit

Vista is a bit slower to boot than 7, my best guess for 6GB/s is about 20-25 seconds possibly and I ran Vista on my M4 with 3GB/s for a while, boot time was around 30-35 seconds. May get 15 seconds on 6GB/s though, possibly.


----------



## wolfeking

Well, the way I see it, the 10 extra seconds is not worth another $190 to get windows 7 again. I will be just fine with vista most likely.


----------



## spirit

Yeah I'm not sure on the Vista speeds, may even be close to the speed of 7. The fact is Vista is still fine if you don't want 7. It's better than XP.


----------



## wolfeking

eh, I have never been big on XP at all. It is just a refined 2k, just as 7 is refined vista.


----------



## voyagerfan99

46 pages? Where the hell has this thread gone and/or going?


----------



## spirit

voyagerfan99 said:


> 46 pages? Where the hell has this thread gone and/or going?



Been a lot of decisions to make and a lot of changing of minds and stuff.


----------



## wolfeking

I got tired of making a new thread about every part of my computer, so I made this thread. And we have talked everything out pretty much to make sure that I am getting exactly what I want out of everything.  Its going to a perfect computer for me.


----------



## wolfeking

okay jason, since your probably the only one following this. 

D630 is not acting like it is a heat issue right now, so I am going to sideline plans for it and get a replacement. If all else fails, then its replaced. If I can figure it out, then I got a backup. It will all work somehow or another. 

so.. plan for now, and it is flexible, is as follows. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thin...tops_Nov05&hash=item4aba3f747e#ht_1417wt_1270
-It has a fx570m. Will it be $100 better than a NVS140m? I don't really need a lot of power. I have a M90 that I can use to game if necessary. I am not sure I need so much in it. I am just trying to replace the D630, which has a NVS135m. I can get teh 140m which is Lenovo's 135m more or less for 144. But would it be a noticible upgrade on the fx570m?  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thin...tops_Nov05&hash=item4aba438921#ht_2051wt_1139  is the backup. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soft-Silico...442?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae84b7eea 
- I am tired of crumbs, dirt, fuzz, and other various junks getting under the keys, requiring removal of the keyboard and blow out with the air gun. This should curb that pretty well. Or at least make it easier to clean it. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Lenovo-..._Jaz_Drives&hash=item2320551a62#ht_1024wt_905
-That will work with both laptop options, and the desktop, yes? That would be easy enough to use I rekon. Just plug and play? Does 7 still have floppy drivers? Would it load  DOS 6.23 onto a drive to play with? That may be in the future, just to play with on a spare HDD.  

Okay, the following are buffer zones as I am not sure I need or want them, or will have enough for them. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LENOVO-IBM-...g_Stations&hash=item27c839ab4c#ht_1832wt_1139
-Doc, its good. Plug the Ethernet to it, as well as Keyboard and maybe some other stuff I might use at home but not on teh move, like speakers, to it and just have one connection to make.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150-WHITE-3...p_Jaz_Disks&hash=item20c8ed6586#ht_500wt_1287 
-I am not sure if the 10,000 or so in grandads basement are any good still. They might not still work. But Either way, this is cheaper than getting them from Staples, and they don't hold much and iirc may not format right every time, so should last a while before needing more. 

okay, all the following I am getting no matter what. I am tired of having them on my flash key, and I am pretty sure some of the proceeds go to developers. So supporting the system. 
http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Rescatux_p_143.html
http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/FreeBSD-90_p_141.html
http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/GParted-Live-0130-1_p_20.html
http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Clonezilla-1212-10_p_14.html
http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Ubuntu-Desktop-1204-LTS-CD_p_103.html (didn't they used to be free?) 
http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/openSuse-122-32-Bit-DVD_p_57.html
http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/CrunchBang-Linux-10-R20110207-32-Bit-OpenBox_p_43.html
http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Suse-Start-Up-Guide_p_87.html
http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Slackware-137-32-Bit-DVD-Installation-Configuration-Manual_p_84.html
http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Debian-6xx-Install-Configuration-Manual_p_80.html 

looks like a lot, but I use them quite regular, and keep loosing my CDs cause im too stupid to write whats on them on the front and end up rewritting the CD, and some of them just go on the flashkey and take up space.  Resatux I have not been able to get to work in a while. Looking to use it to fix the BCD on the M90. 




Everything looks good except for the questions, yes?


----------



## FuryRosewood

its about as fast as a radeon m6600, i just think the real sticking point is the lack of vRam, screen being dim might be a issue, otherwise looks okay.


----------



## wolfeking

Well, I really don't need much in graphics. Basically, OpenGL support is all I need. I ran off a nvs135m for a long time. But I don't really know. I just need something that is smaller than a breifcase (M90).  

Screen brightness is not really an issue either. Most of teh time I will be using it indoors and at night on the band bus, so light generally is not an issue at all. I run The 630 and the M90 with the back light on about 25% as is. Im sure I can find a setting that will fit good for me. 

I guess what is bothering me is that it is impossible to get a 1200p with the 140m from what I see. The 1440x900 is fine, but I love 1200p as it makes for a very precise screen. 

The cheaper one looks like it will be exactly what I set out to do. A replacement D630. Its only +s over it is it functions, has a bigger HDD, and a slightly faster processor 2Ghz vs 1.83GHz.  The more expensive one has better graphics, a couple of extras, higher resolution and is slightly bigger (15.4 vs 14.1).  Im not sure if its worth the extra though.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> okay jason, since your probably the only one following this.
> 
> D630 is not acting like it is a heat issue right now, so I am going to sideline plans for it and get a replacement. If all else fails, then its replaced. If I can figure it out, then I got a backup. It will all work somehow or another.
> 
> so.. plan for now, and it is flexible, is as follows.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thin...tops_Nov05&hash=item4aba3f747e#ht_1417wt_1270
> -It has a fx570m. Will it be $100 better than a NVS140m? I don't really need a lot of power. I have a M90 that I can use to game if necessary. I am not sure I need so much in it. I am just trying to replace the D630, which has a NVS135m. I can get teh 140m which is Lenovo's 135m more or less for 144. But would it be a noticible upgrade on the fx570m?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thin...tops_Nov05&hash=item4aba438921#ht_2051wt_1139  is the backup.


Good choice, that's a solid laptop, should last you a while. I see the advertisement says you can go for a 6- or 9-cell battery, go for 9 cells ideally. Spec looks good, dual-core, 3GB of RAM - should be pretty good for light stuff. 



> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soft-Silico...442?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae84b7eea
> - I am tired of crumbs, dirt, fuzz, and other various junks getting under the keys, requiring removal of the keyboard and blow out with the air gun. This should curb that pretty well. Or at least make it easier to clean it.


Go for it, I wish I had one for my keyboards too, not sure if you can get them for desktops though. The amount of crap which ends up underneath keyboards is unbelievable, so anything you can do to help clean the crap out is worthwhile buying. 



> http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Lenovo-..._Jaz_Drives&hash=item2320551a62#ht_1024wt_905
> -That will work with both laptop options, and the desktop, yes? That would be easy enough to use I rekon. Just plug and play? Does 7 still have floppy drivers? Would it load  DOS 6.23 onto a drive to play with? That may be in the future, just to play with on a spare HDD.


Yes should work both the laptops and desktops. It's a USB floppy drive with 'IBM' written on it. Pretty sure Windows 7 works with floppy drives, it works with my external floppy drive so should be fine. Usually external floppy drives are plug and play anyway. 



> Okay, the following are buffer zones as I am not sure I need or want them, or will have enough for them.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LENOVO-IBM-...g_Stations&hash=item27c839ab4c#ht_1832wt_1139
> -Doc, its good. Plug the Ethernet to it, as well as Keyboard and maybe some other stuff I might use at home but not on teh move, like speakers, to it and just have one connection to make.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/150-WHITE-3...p_Jaz_Disks&hash=item20c8ed6586#ht_500wt_1287
> -I am not sure if the 10,000 or so in grandads basement are any good still. They might not still work. But Either way, this is cheaper than getting them from Staples, and they don't hold much and iirc may not format right every time, so should last a while before needing more.
> 
> okay, all the following I am getting no matter what. I am tired of having them on my flash key, and I am pretty sure some of the proceeds go to developers. So supporting the system.
> http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Rescatux_p_143.html
> http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/FreeBSD-90_p_141.html
> http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/GParted-Live-0130-1_p_20.html
> http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Clonezilla-1212-10_p_14.html
> http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Ubuntu-Desktop-1204-LTS-CD_p_103.html (didn't they used to be free?)
> http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/openSuse-122-32-Bit-DVD_p_57.html
> http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/CrunchBang-Linux-10-R20110207-32-Bit-OpenBox_p_43.html
> http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Suse-Start-Up-Guide_p_87.html
> http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Slackware-137-32-Bit-DVD-Installation-Configuration-Manual_p_84.html
> http://www.shoplinuxonline.com/Debian-6xx-Install-Configuration-Manual_p_80.html
> 
> looks like a lot, but I use them quite regular, and keep loosing my CDs cause im too stupid to write whats on them on the front and end up rewritting the CD, and some of them just go on the flashkey and take up space.  Resatux I have not been able to get to work in a while. Looking to use it to fix the BCD on the M90.


Yeah looks all right. Ubuntu CDs did used to be free but you could give a donation I think. If you can't afford them all you could always just download them, burn them to a CD and invest in a CD wallet and a disc marker so you can write labels on the discs and then keep them all together. That's what I did.

I had a dock for my A31, it was very handy, especially if you have stuff like a proper mouse and maybe some speakers or a printer hooked into your laptop and you need to quickly unplug them all and move the laptop. You're going to be taking the T61 to school, correct? If so, then I'd say yeah it would probably be worthwhile getting yourself a dock.


----------



## wolfeking

vistakid10 said:


> Good choice, that's a solid laptop, should last you a while. I see the advertisement says you can go for a 6- or 9-cell battery, go for 9 cells ideally. Spec looks good, dual-core, 3GB of RAM - should be pretty good for light stuff.


It is good. Thats the problem, it may be too good.  I am not really sure that it is good enough to be worth the extra $100, as I am not sure I will even use 1/2 the features it has. Like bluetooth, and biometrics.  I guess what I am saying is I don't want to dive for it with GCS (gaming computer syndrome). If it is a steal for its features and all, then I will go for it. But won't the NVS140m version do everything the same way?  Like I said, I got the M90 I can game on. I can model on it too. I just need something that has a very good resolution and fairly good battery life for music (creation), word work, videos, and the like. I prefer a video card over intel junk mainly so I can run a ancient game or 2 on it every now and again, like global operations or MOH:AA. They don't need much, as the D630 maxxed them just fine. 



> Go for it, I wish I had one for my keyboards too, not sure if you can get them for desktops though. The amount of crap which ends up underneath keyboards is unbelievable, so anything you can do to help clean the crap out is worthwhile buying.


I wish I would have gotten one for the M90. The keyboard in it gets filled up about every other week, and I really do not enjoy pulling it to get all the junk out of it.  
I don't think they make them for desktop.  Wish they did. 



> Yes should work both the laptops and desktops. It's a USB floppy drive with 'IBM' written on it. Pretty sure Windows 7 works with floppy drives, it works with my external floppy drive so should be fine. Usually external floppy drives are plug and play anyway.


I figured as much, but was not sure that it might not have some kind of IBM only firmware on it.  



> Yeah looks all right. Ubuntu CDs did used to be free but you could give a donation I think. If you can't afford them all you could always just download them, burn them to a CD and invest in a CD wallet and a disc marker so you can write labels on the discs and then keep them all together. That's what I did.


Well, I am definately getting all of these. Well at least the GRUB fixer (I have yet to get a successful working copy on USB or CD by doing it myself) and the manuals. Anything to expand the knowledge.  

I may just grab a battery for the M90. Not 100%. I need to find a trumpet for marching that does not split tone when near to overblowing. My Conn can't do it, and the Yamaha 2320 is not even close to doing it.  So Depending on how much that is I might have to push this back some.  Or I might push that back some, as we only got one game in august.     *aye, decisions... decisions...*


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> It is good. Thats the problem, it may be too good.  I am not really sure that it is good enough to be worth the extra $100, as I am not sure I will even use 1/2 the features it has. Like bluetooth, and biometrics.  I guess what I am saying is I don't want to dive for it with GCS (gaming computer syndrome). If it is a steal for its features and all, then I will go for it. But won't the NVS140m version do everything the same way?  Like I said, I got the M90 I can game on. I can model on it too. I just need something that has a very good resolution and fairly good battery life for music (creation), word work, videos, and the like. I prefer a video card over intel junk mainly so I can run a ancient game or 2 on it every now and again, like global operations or MOH:AA. They don't need much, as the D630 maxxed them just fine.


Ah didn't see the other one which was $139. I'd actually say that the 139 buck one is all you'd need, just throw a bit more RAM in it - running Windows 7 on a gig of RAM can be annoying, believe me I've done it several times, you want 2GB really for Windows 7. I would actually say it's especially all you need if you have the M90 to game, so for this laptop the graphics don't matter too much. 



> I figured as much, but was not sure that it might not have some kind of IBM only firmware on it.


I would doubt they have some sort 'IBM only' firmware to be honest, it looks to me just like a floppy drive with IBM written on it. Should work fine I reckon.


----------



## wolfeking

okay. I think what I am going to do is grab the cheaper one and the floppy drive and leave the rest for later. That will leave me ~400 this month which I can save and add to next month and that will give me ~1200 to get a Conn Constellation or Bach Strat or even Yamaha's pro line for the trumpet. They should be fine.  Ill borrow Ben's Strat tomorrow during lunch to see if they will be okay. 

So I think we have it sorted. And I will pull 1 2GB stick from the M90 and level them both to 3GB. Should be fine.


----------



## spirit

Sounds like a plan. 3GB should be more than enough for Windows 7.


----------



## Okedokey

spirit said:


> Sounds like a plan. 3GB should be more than enough for Windows 7.



Unless you want to do anything 3d.


----------



## wolfeking

well bigfella, at that particular line we were discussing laptops. I am pretty sure that I don't need 3GB on the laptop, Just enough to run a 32 big game from ~ 1999 to 2002 (not really sure when it came out. Its DX8.) and basic word processing. I do pretty much everything else on my desktop.


----------



## wolfeking

2 week checkin Jason. lol. 

Okay, plans so far: 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...=&coliid=&condition=used&me=&qid=&seller=&sr=
Camera, its $250, don't need a memory card and saving out lens for later to keep price down. 

Also getting some stuff from IM surplus to update and have a better quality unit. 
http://www.imsplus.com/alice-and-mo...de822a48da3aafd55618c15eac33e&sl=EN&currency= (easier to keep up with than my metal box) 
http://www.imsplus.com/military-bac...de822a48da3aafd55618c15eac33e&sl=EN&currency= 
http://www.imsplus.com/military-clo...de822a48da3aafd55618c15eac33e&sl=EN&currency= 

okay that is 99.85, so all together 350.  

Actually, that is all I can get, after some figuring. And a 64GB flash key.  So does this look a-okay to you? I won't be able to go up in price a bit.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> 2 week checkin Jason. lol.
> 
> Okay, plans so far:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...=&coliid=&condition=used&me=&qid=&seller=&sr=
> Camera, its $250, don't need a memory card and saving out lens for later to keep price down.
> 
> Also getting some stuff from IM surplus to update and have a better quality unit.
> http://www.imsplus.com/alice-and-mo...de822a48da3aafd55618c15eac33e&sl=EN&currency= (easier to keep up with than my metal box)
> http://www.imsplus.com/military-bac...de822a48da3aafd55618c15eac33e&sl=EN&currency=
> http://www.imsplus.com/military-clo...de822a48da3aafd55618c15eac33e&sl=EN&currency=
> 
> okay that is 99.85, so all together 350.
> 
> Actually, that is all I can get, after some figuring. And a 64GB flash key.  So does this look a-okay to you? I won't be able to go up in price a bit.



It is not bad.  Also what is about 64 GB flash key? It is for camera or computer?


----------



## wolfeking

Its for the computer. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220674  I have 3 or 4 4GB SD cards for the camera already.   I don't really need this much space, but I can keep my personal work and school work on it together instead of having 2 keys for it as I do now.


----------



## spirit

All looks fine to me Wolfe. Good choice of camera too.


----------



## wolfeking

cool beans.   all is good to go I rekon.


----------



## spirit

I'd say all is cool.

Just realised you're now an Exabyte member too.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, 1 week to go and thinking (I know, dangerous).  I have came up with several options that I can do. 

Budget is $500, no more no less. 
And I still want/need the backpack and medic pack linked earlier. 
http://www.imsplus.com/military-bac...de822a48da3aafd55618c15eac33e&sl=EN&currency=
http://www.imsplus.com/alice-and-mo...de822a48da3aafd55618c15eac33e&sl=EN&currency= (total 91.90) 

and need a battery or 2 and flash drives. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139289
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139292
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220674 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-CELL-BATT..._Batteries&hash=item2a06a5157b#ht_3411wt_1037 (x2) (bought from him before).

so that leaves 306.26. So here are the options. 

1. Get a D-Dock and 1080p/1200p monitor and be done. Should be about 170 for those. 
2. Get a motherboard. Not sure which one. 
3. Camera, but I don't think I have the skills to justify teh cost. Maybe a bridge camera, but again, skills!
4. Get a case. Not sure which one. 
5. Get a el cheap-o 1440p monitor from herr Ebay. This would help with adobe, cad, and well everything, but would bottleneck my graphics, meaning I would have to go to 1080p manually on BF3 (the rest of my games should be able to run fluently just fine at 1440, as they run at 1200p on a 7900m GTX 512MB). 
6. Start a el cheapo AMD build to get them ancient ports I want (the 990FX extreme 4 has them all!) 

For #5, #4, and #1, it would end up with getting a 680 or 670 4GB soon and using the 480 as a folder on a AMD build.    Not really sure what else I could do, or which of the above would be best option.  Kind of leaning towards the monitor options, or getting a better motherboard. 
Opinions?


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> okay, 1 week to go and thinking (I know, dangerous).  I have came up with several options that I can do.
> 
> Budget is $500, no more no less.
> And I still want/need the backpack and medic pack linked earlier.
> http://www.imsplus.com/military-bac...de822a48da3aafd55618c15eac33e&sl=EN&currency=
> http://www.imsplus.com/alice-and-mo...de822a48da3aafd55618c15eac33e&sl=EN&currency= (total 91.90)
> 
> and need a battery or 2 and flash drives.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139289
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139292
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220674
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-CELL-BATT..._Batteries&hash=item2a06a5157b#ht_3411wt_1037 (x2) (bought from him before).
> 
> so that leaves 306.26. So here are the options.
> 
> 1. Get a D-Dock and 1080p/1200p monitor and be done. Should be about 170 for those.
> 2. Get a motherboard. Not sure which one.
> 3. Camera, but I don't think I have the skills to justify teh cost. Maybe a bridge camera, but again, skills!
> 4. Get a case. Not sure which one.
> 5. Get a el cheap-o 1440p monitor from herr Ebay. This would help with adobe, cad, and well everything, but would bottleneck my graphics, meaning I would have to go to 1080p manually on BF3 (the rest of my games should be able to run fluently just fine at 1440, as they run at 1200p on a 7900m GTX 512MB).
> 6. Start a el cheapo AMD build to get them ancient ports I want (the 990FX extreme 4 has them all!)
> 
> For #5, #4, and #1, it would end up with getting a 680 or 670 4GB soon and using the 480 as a folder on a AMD build.    Not really sure what else I could do, or which of the above would be best option.  Kind of leaning towards the monitor options, or getting a better motherboard.
> Opinions?



Gigabyte is great motherboard and it save me from RMA with backup BIOS.  My old Gigabyte have main BIOS corrupt many time and recovery via backup BIOS.  Also Thermaltake MK-1 Chaser have great airflow and cable manage.  Also 1080 monitor should be good enough for CAD and adobe, since it is biggest and more space.  In my opinion, 1440 monitor isn't really worth it for gaming and workstation.


----------



## wolfeking

Aye, wording. but anyway, I am not 100% that I want a motherboard yet. I am still debating. 

Anyway, what to look at: 
Motherboard: Something P67 or Z68. Not really up to getting a 7 series board again as it offers nothing That I need or use.  I like Gigabyte, Asus, and sometimes MSI. I will get one of them. Probably a Gigabyte P67-UD7-B3 or something close. 
Monitor: You may think that 1080p is enough, but working on 1200p everyday, it is not. Even then 1440p will have more real-estate always. I can set it to 1080p or 1200p for gaming just fine. 
Case: Thermaltake is a no no for me. As is coolermaster. Looking for a full tower with better features than the 912 POS that I have. 

I may also drop everything except a 8GB flash key and get a iphone on Virgin mobile as they has county wide 3G coverage, but I am not 100% sure.  Just kind of trying to get some serious advice on which way to go.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> Aye, wording. but anyway, I am not 100% that I want a motherboard yet. I am still debating.
> 
> Anyway, what to look at:
> Motherboard: Something P67 or Z68. Not really up to getting a 7 series board again as it offers nothing That I need or use.  I like Gigabyte, Asus, and sometimes MSI. I will get one of them. Probably a Gigabyte P67-UD7-B3 or something close.
> Monitor: You may think that 1080p is enough, but working on 1200p everyday, it is not. Even then 1440p will have more real-estate always. I can set it to 1080p or 1200p for gaming just fine.
> Case: Thermaltake is a no no for me. As is coolermaster. Looking for a full tower with better features than the 912 POS that I have.
> 
> I may also drop everything except a 8GB flash key and get a iphone on Virgin mobile as they has county wide 3G coverage, but I am not 100% sure.  Just kind of trying to get some serious advice on which way to go.



Hmm... What is feature do you expect from motherboard that 7 series board don't have?


----------



## wolfeking

reread it. I said it has nothing that I need or use. And other than SATA 3, nothing on it that is new will work anyway as it is dependent on Ivybridge processors.  To work USB3 and the like I need a P67 or Z68 with my 2600k. I am still looking, so I will put up a list and see what happens.


----------



## wolfeking

okay options, options.  ASrock is all I am seeing that fits what I want (cheap price and new). 

so from options above, just with products instead of words. 

1.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Laptop...ng_Stations&hash=item1c29d972f3#ht_769wt_1037 or http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-port-r...g_Stations&hash=item3cc9b2f594#ht_2553wt_1037 (I am not sure if the big one is the model that uses the media bay components. If it does then good. May get a new D630 later for better battery life). 
and of coarse monitor to go with it. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260067 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236175   both are 2ms. Do I need 2ms? Would 5ms be okay? What about a IPS monitor? What do I look for to find a IPS display? I like them, that is what is in my M90 and I love that display. 

2. motherboards: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157265  I hate the Z77 version, but this seems to be a better unit. More of the reviews are positive, as little as that means. Plus I like the P67 and the PS/2 and Floppy ports. Does not have IDE, but I could always use a PCI card to get that should I need/want it in the future. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128488R  cheaper, better brand. p67, but none of the extra ports of the p67 extreme 4 and the colour is off. 

3. Look back a page. It is there. Unless there is something cheaper or better. 

4. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146089 Colour, and cable management, but at the cost of a window. I don't like windows. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352017 no window, worse cable management, and the setup is not the best in my opinion.  Cheaper.  


5. Would not even know where to start. 

6. Idea ditched. 

So here it is. But what to do?

EDIT: Just to straiten out my wording, for option 1 my Dell 1366X768 goes to the docking station. The 1080p goes to the desktop.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> okay options, options.  ASrock is all I am seeing that fits what I want (cheap price and new).
> 
> so from options above, just with products instead of words.
> 
> 1.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Laptop...ng_Stations&hash=item1c29d972f3#ht_769wt_1037 or http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-port-r...g_Stations&hash=item3cc9b2f594#ht_2553wt_1037 (I am not sure if the big one is the model that uses the media bay components. If it does then good. May get a new D630 later for better battery life).
> and of coarse monitor to go with it.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260067 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236175   both are 2ms. Do I need 2ms? Would 5ms be okay? What about a IPS monitor? What do I look for to find a IPS display? I like them, that is what is in my M90 and I love that display.
> 
> 2. motherboards: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157265  I hate the Z77 version, but this seems to be a better unit. More of the reviews are positive, as little as that means. Plus I like the P67 and the PS/2 and Floppy ports. Does not have IDE, but I could always use a PCI card to get that should I need/want it in the future.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128488R  cheaper, better brand. p67, but none of the extra ports of the p67 extreme 4 and the colour is off.
> 
> 3. Look back a page. It is there. Unless there is something cheaper or better.
> 
> 4. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146089 Colour, and cable management, but at the cost of a window. I don't like windows.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352017 no window, worse cable management, and the setup is not the best in my opinion.  Cheaper.
> 
> 
> 5. Would not even know where to start.
> 
> 6. Idea ditched.
> 
> So here it is. But what to do?
> 
> EDIT: Just to straiten out my wording, for option 1 my Dell 1366X768 goes to the docking station. The 1080p goes to the desktop.



I don't mean to off topic in your thread but I want to show you this motherboard.  It has legacy port that you want.  It would be nice if it is still sold.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157253

I have one question, what do you expect from tower case?  No windows and better cable manage?

EDIT: You can try finding motherboard on ebay i shown you.


----------



## wolfeking

Jamebonds1 said:


> I don't mean to off topic in your thread but I want to show you this motherboard.  It has legacy port that you want.  It would be nice if it is still sold.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157253
> 
> I have one question, what do you expect from tower case?  No windows and better cable manage?


http://www.amazon.com/ASRock-FATAL1...pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1346047536&sr=1-2&keywords=p67  this is the one I originally wanted. But I am not sure I trust it. I mean Amazon's RMA service is not newegg now. So I would be going through ASrock's nonexistent RMA should it not work. 

Case, I want something larger than I have, enough space for SLI (I am not sure if I am going SLI 480 or a single 680, as that depends on if I run 1080p or 1440p). I also want amazing wire management and cooling, as well as a external 3.5 bay if possible. And no window. I hate windows.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> http://www.amazon.com/ASRock-FATAL1...pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1346047536&sr=1-2&keywords=p67  this is the one I originally wanted. But I am not sure I trust it. I mean Amazon's RMA service is not newegg now. So I would be going through ASrock's nonexistent RMA should it not work.
> 
> Case, I want something larger than I have, enough space for SLI (I am not sure if I am going SLI 480 or a single 680, as that depends on if I run 1080p or 1440p). I also want amazing wire management and cooling, as well as a external 3.5 bay if possible. And no window. I hate windows.



Neither i trust seller from amazon.com since the seller is in bad positive, good news is i found it in ebay with 99% positive.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASRock-Fata...010713062?pt=Motherboards&hash=item3cc57369e6

it is rarely to see no windows and better cable manage but i can try find one.


----------



## wolfeking

That is not the same board. I want the option to SLI.   And the extreme 4 has that as does the linked one. And what do you mean bad positive? The store has 94% positive and 2% neutral. That is 96% more than bad has. 

Don't worry about trying to find one. The two I linked will be fine.  Worst case is that I have to break the window and weld in a metal sheet over it and repaint it.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> That is not the same board. I want the option to SLI.   And the extreme 4 has that as does the linked one. And what do you mean bad positive? The store has 94% positive and 2% neutral. That is 96% more than bad has.
> 
> Don't worry about trying to find one. The two I linked will be fine.  Worst case is that I have to break the window and weld in a metal sheet over it and repaint it.



My bad. I don't see two PCIe sorry.  Anyway I had been shopping and buy from amazon for 5 years.  I only trust seller with over 95% or not too high price than normally it should be.

About case with windows, sometime you can remove bolt in order to remove windows.  I found tower case that you want but it is 600 dollar .


----------



## wolfeking

well, I have shopped there before, bought a lot of music supplies from them.  And that board is brand new from a brittish store and quite a bit less than the same board was at newegg. It was verging on $300 there when they carried it.


----------



## wolfeking

Jamebonds1 said:


> My bad. I don't see two PCIe sorry.  Anyway I had been shopping and buy from amazon for 5 years.  I only trust seller with over 95% or not too high price than normally it should be.
> 
> About case with windows, sometime you can remove bolt in order to remove windows.  I found tower case that you want but it is 600 dollar .


no problem. I am going to wait on that for now and just run with what I have I think. So list is going to be: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139289
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139292
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220674
and 2 day shipping for 12.48.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-CELL-BATT..._Batteries&hash=item2a06a5157b#ht_3459wt_1037 (x2) 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-port-r...g_Stations&hash=item3cc9b2f594#ht_2553wt_1037

http://www.imsplus.com/alice-and-mo...4d4c62725b812db5acc0ccef6c3ea&sl=EN&currency=
http://www.imsplus.com/custom-made-...4d4c62725b812db5acc0ccef6c3ea&sl=EN&currency=
http://www.imsplus.com/custom-made-...4d4c62725b812db5acc0ccef6c3ea&sl=EN&currency= (x10) 
http://www.imsplus.com/military-bac...4d4c62725b812db5acc0ccef6c3ea&sl=EN&currency=

so that should all work out and leave some extra for crap in the mean time.

unless I missed something I will have 312.32 extra!

may go with a new cooler, a NH-D14 maybe? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608024  otherwise, not sure what I could do to get better. Not enough for a 480 and a PSU. May do something else. Maybe more RAM?


----------



## spirit

Right for cameras if you can't justify the cost of a D-SLR get a bridge camera, one like mine will be fine (Fuji S4000) or maybe something like a Canon PowerShot SX-45 (I think?), or the Panasonic DMC-FZ range of bridge cameras.

The NH-D14 is one of the best air coolers out there, but it is huge don't forget. Could go with an H50 or an H60 perhaps?


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> no problem. I am going to wait on that for now and just run with what I have I think. So list is going to be:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139289
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139292
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220674
> and 2 day shipping for 12.48.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-CELL-BATT..._Batteries&hash=item2a06a5157b#ht_3459wt_1037 (x2)
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-port-r...g_Stations&hash=item3cc9b2f594#ht_2553wt_1037
> 
> http://www.imsplus.com/alice-and-mo...4d4c62725b812db5acc0ccef6c3ea&sl=EN&currency=
> http://www.imsplus.com/custom-made-...4d4c62725b812db5acc0ccef6c3ea&sl=EN&currency=
> http://www.imsplus.com/custom-made-...4d4c62725b812db5acc0ccef6c3ea&sl=EN&currency= (x10)
> http://www.imsplus.com/military-bac...4d4c62725b812db5acc0ccef6c3ea&sl=EN&currency=
> 
> so that should all work out and leave some extra for crap in the mean time.
> 
> unless I missed something I will have 312.32 extra!
> 
> may go with a new cooler, a NH-D14 maybe? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608024  otherwise, not sure what I could do to get better. Not enough for a 480 and a PSU. May do something else. Maybe more RAM?



I'm curious. what happened to your old desktop?  ASrock Z77 Extreme?


----------



## wolfeking

What do you mean what happened to the desktop? It is up and running just fine, on the backup board (H61DE/S3). The extreme 4 is acting up something bad and just BSODing at pure stock settings on everything. I think it is a chipset issue. 

It is big, and it will not leak on my computer. And hopefully it's best is better than the "best budget cooler" that the 212+ EVO was. I really don't want water at this point because it is kind of a risk. If it leaks then there goes the system. And with my luck here, you know it will leak. 

I am not sure on the camera. I think I am just going to stick with my GE camera for now.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> It is big, and it will not leak on my computer. And hopefully it's best is better than the "best budget cooler" that the 212+ EVO was. I really don't want water at this point because it is kind of a risk. If it leaks then there goes the system. And with my luck here, you know it will leak.


Ah yeah sorry to say it but you haven't had the best of luck lately regarding computers. 

Anyway, the Noctua is great - I know Nevakonaza has a Phanteks cooler which is also massive and cools well, you may want to speak him about it if you're interested.


----------



## wolfeking

But at this point it is pointless to get a cooler as at stock I am under 55* right now and its not going to get much cooler at stock unless there is a way to force unlock voltage control on a H61 board. 

So to get a cooler means a board. A board means the endless dance between what I want and what is available.


----------



## spirit

Yeah I've seen all the choices. Is it absolutely essential you have all that legacy stuff? Could you possibly live without it?


----------



## wolfeking

I can do without PS/2 as I can work around with the PS/2 on the d dock.  Really want to play round with Floppy and IDE, but that limits the choices to one of a few verities of ASrock motherboard.   
So I guess I can go PCI and USB there. or if I can get a expressbay floppy drive for the Ddock then all I need is a PCI IDE card in the future.


----------



## spirit

Some of those PCI IDE/SATA controllers you get can be dodgy, I had one which made Windows hang when it booted (Vista), so I'd recommend getting a well branded one and reading reviews before you buy one of those.

If you did go that route you could get a newer board and probably be happier. USB floppy drive - I know we've discussed it before, but I think unless you have a real shortage of space on your desk that's what you should get. Just put it on top of the your case, sit it on top. It'll be fine.


----------



## wolfeking

well, without going to Z77, what do you suggest? I prefer P67, but Z68 is fine too.  I definately am not going to spend money on features I can not use again. (USB3 and PCIe 3 require Ivybridge).


----------



## spirit

Z68 is a great chipset, my Z68 board is pretty good. If you're looking to buy from the previous generation P67 or Z68 is what you want. Gigabyte made some good Z68 boards, GA-Z68X series springs to mind.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> What do you mean what happened to the desktop? It is up and running just fine, on the backup board (H61DE/S3). The extreme 4 is acting up something bad and just BSODing at pure stock settings on everything. I think it is a chipset issue.
> 
> It is big, and it will not leak on my computer. And hopefully it's best is better than the "best budget cooler" that the 212+ EVO was. I really don't want water at this point because it is kind of a risk. If it leaks then there goes the system. And with my luck here, you know it will leak.
> 
> I am not sure on the camera. I think I am just going to stick with my GE camera for now.



You can read BSOD error reason?  Or it is too fast to read error?


----------



## spirit

Wolfe, if you want board suggestions, something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128498&Tpk=ga-z68x would be good, or my board, which is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131790 that's a good board, not had any issues with mine.


----------



## wolfeking

Jamebonds1 said:


> You can read BSOD error reason?  Or it is too fast to read error?


I can not read the error, but it it was not the motherboard it would still be having the error. 



spirit said:


> Wolfe, if you want board suggestions, something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128498&Tpk=ga-z68x would be good, or my board, which is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131790 that's a good board, not had any issues with mine.


 I am actually looking at a couple of P67 boards. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131700
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188082
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131714

but what is teh best option? I like the idea of tri or quad SLI and all of these are capable.


----------



## spirit

They're all really good boards. If it were me I'd go for the EVGA though, EVGA's products are top notch.

Given the choice between the two ASUS boards, I'd probably go for the Maximus, but I'd still take that EVGA FTW board over it.


----------



## wolfeking

Okay. I will get the EVGA then.  Would you suggest getting 16GB of ram to go with it? I may get 2x8GB then get 2x8GB next month to max it out too.


----------



## spirit

Yes if you want to get 32GB of RAM in the future go for 2x8GB, saves you time and money in the long run.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> I am actually looking at a couple of P67 boards.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131700
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188082
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131714
> 
> but what is teh best option? I like the idea of tri or quad SLI and all of these are capable.



Your second link didn't work.


----------



## spirit

Does work, it's the EVGA P67 FTW.


----------



## wolfeking

Jamebonds1 said:


> Your second link didn't work.


It works under chrome on my desktop. Don't know what is up on your end. Try quoting the link and copy+paste.


----------



## wolfeking

son of a female dog!  something I did not notice jason, the FTW is extended ATX, which my case don't support!    :'( 

I really do not want to get another board (meaning I really want to get the best I can, eg the FTW).  So I might have to either make due with the H61 and get a monitor this month, and get a case and teh FTW next pay. Or I could get a Asus P67 and have an okay to good board and continue on the original plans.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> It works under chrome on my desktop. Don't know what is up on your end. Try quoting the link and copy+paste.



I got it.  I think ASUS EXTREME is the better.  If you have low money, go for ASUS REVOLUTION.  

PS: I would avoid non-B3 motherboard if i were you.  There have been history chipset problem on old LGA 1155 motherboard series.


----------



## spirit

Ah... well the Maximus is ATX isn't it? Otherwise the other one will be fine.

Either of those ASUS boards will be good for you.


----------



## wolfeking

problem being you did not research. The FTW was released after the B3 revision. Meaning they are all B3.  

I think and pretty well know that the FTW is better. I really would rather avoid Asus if possible because they are the owners of ASrock and they suck arse so there is a chance that the Asus will have the same issue.


----------



## spirit

If you wanted the FTW you'd need another case, and that's more money. The FTW was the best board there though, too bad it was E-ATX though. 

Are there any other boards out there which would fit your needs and are not E-ATX or made by ASRock or ASUS?


----------



## wolfeking

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131714 is ATX. The Extreme 4 P67 is ATX. Actually, here are all of them that do fit what I am looking for (trimmed requirements to SLI support and ATX form factor with P67 and Z68) I have left some out, but the ones on here are the ones I looked at. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135282
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135283
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130581
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131867
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128507
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157250
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157269R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157263
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130621
http://www.amazon.com/ASRock-FATAL1...pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1346191147&sr=1-2&keywords=p67

that is about it.


----------



## wolfeking

plans changing.  I am grabbing a ipod, a set of headphones (I can't stand the ones that go in ear that come with it) and some RAM.  

Motherboard will be a FTW next pay, along with a case to fit it.  

so shopping list is as far as I can tell: 
everything previously listed
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=26-262-249 These looked good to me visually. Don't know how they work except for a basic scientific understanding, so no clue if they are any count. Basically want good frequency range from a deep bass to a very high soprano range, and of coarse want them to be loud when necessary. As in drown out a bus load of hyper band kids loud. 

and a Ipod from our local walmart store. Probably end up with a 8GB as they rarely have anything else.  Would that hold a bunch of music? Don't need apps as I do that on my Iphone when necessary. So its use is as a MP3 only.


----------



## spirit

8GB will hold a fair bit of music. How much music are you going to put on it? My phone has a 2GB card and I have just under 200 songs on it and I've only used just under 1GB I think.

What case are you going for? Switch 810?


----------



## wolfeking

I don't really know how much musik I will put on it.  Probably a good amount of the musik I have, so about 450 songs or so. 

Case, just whatever happens to catch my eye when I am looking at them.


----------



## spirit

8GB should hold 450 tracks or so I reckon.


----------



## wolfeking

okay. That is all that was worrying me there. Never really had to think about it before because I have always had my musik on a 250+ GB hard drive. 

Any opinions on the headphones?


----------



## spirit

I have Sony MDR-XD200s, they're good, not bad at noise dampening, but after a while they can make your head hurt a bit as the top of the headphones are not padded, so get a good pair which have padding at the top definitely.


----------



## wolfeking

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=26-262-249 is what I was looking at. It has a padded band and looks cool too (opinion I know).  But I am worried about some of the reviews. Some of them say they are flat. I am not sure how to tune a set of speakers, but I am sure there is an app for that.


----------



## spirit

If it were me I'd just go for them, I'm sure they're fine. They're from a good brand (JVC).


----------



## wolfeking

okay.  So I rekon everything is good then.   Thanks for the help.


----------



## spirit

No problem.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, have bought a DT100 16GB flash key, the doc and battery. I can not order the headset yet (cheaper elsewhere and I don't remember my full card number  ). Mum is getting the ipod at walmart today as well and the backpack website is blocked at school.  Should be done this evening.


----------



## spirit

Excellent news.


----------



## wolfeking

Yep.  It is all a waiting game now. Hope the battery helps. I got 65 minutes right now and a max charge of 40.4 Wh or 74 Wh total.


----------



## wolfeking

Ordered the headphones from Amazon. Got a NIB set for $30 and next day shipping (says it will be here tuesday versus a shipping estimate of the 12th to the 15th for standard) for $18. So all together got them for less than newegg was.


----------



## wolfeking

hey Jason, lol. 

Anyway, upcoming month needs to be sorted.  I am pretty certain of what I want to do, but I am not 100% sure yet. 

I am thinking of getting a couple of 12 cell batteries for the D630, as well as a media bay floppy drive and a D600 series mediabay SATA HDD holder (I have the M90 series, but it will not go in the D630).  The only issue I am thinking about is how long the baked chip will last. I mean I don't want to go pouring money into it if it is just going to die again right soon. (im talking like within 3 or so months). It seems pretty stable right now, but I have basically been using it as an office machine, and done nothing more graphically intense than a flash video.  

Does this all sound alright to you? May end up getting a few more 9 cells for the M90 to use as basically a really big gameboy, but I don't know if it is worth it yet. Seeing as I have the SSD in the D630 (loving it too), I may as well just leave it and put the 5400 RPM back in the M90, but that will mean loosing some battery time, and making gaming worse, as longer load times, meaning less time in game, plus heavy games that barely run on it won't run when it drops speed on battery saving mode (every time it is unplugged).   not sure. 

Anyway, with everything that I have figured, and paying more than I owe to a couple of bills, I will have ~ 300 left with the D630 batteries (2), floppy drive, and SATA carriage.  Anything else you can think of that would be worth an investment in?


----------



## spirit

Put the SSD in the M90 and don't go spending a ton of money on your D360 if you think it's just going to die.


----------



## wolfeking

*630, not 360. 

and I am not sure if it will dies or not. I have faith in it. It has been dropped, overheated, lost, stuck in a freezer, left in the truck for weeks, and everything in between and it still works.  Never had an issue apart from the overheat that lead to its graphics death a while back.  Done some research on how to properly bake it (not in the oven now!) and it works again. Runs very cool again (running AS5 and have the fan up on 75% constant with it set to go to 100% on any rise in temp above 50*c). It is cool to the touch almost always. 

I am not really worried about what I have done to it so far.  It is working. If it stops, then I can grab another for less than $100 and be back running in no time.  

I always have the M90 if I need it. But it is getting old having to carry that 20 pound brick around with me. 

I guess what I am saying is, as long as I am not sinking money into parts that won't work on any other D series laptop then I am fine with spending it. The G80 chips are bad. They have been for a long time. I should have noticed that before buying it. But if it dies again, then I can get a Intel D630 and be fine. All the externals will hook up just fine.


----------



## wolfeking

Let me put down what I am looking at for now. There may be better things out there. Not sure. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Floppy...loppy_Zip_Jaz_Drives&hash=item20c769c50b#shId (does what it says. Cheapest one listed as of yet. ) 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-cell-Bat...1978099575906608266&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1& (maybe a 9 cell would do?) idea being that a couple (2 or 3) should provide enough power that need be have power for 24 hours strait or more). 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SATA-HDD-Ha...US_Drive_Enclosures_Docks&hash=item3f15e43688 (I have a hear drive already, the one in the M90 media bay dock. Just going to transfer it over and be done with that. Just adds extra space.). 

As of yet the SSD is still partitioned into 2 sets. One 80GB partition is set up for the M90, all as it was before. The rest of the drive to its nearest full GB is setup for the 630. I am going to leave it like that until I have a reason to believe that I no longer need the M90 partition. Which is probably never. But better safe than sorry.


----------



## spirit

If you think the laptop is going to be fine (and going by what it's been through I'd say it will see another day) then yeah spend the money.

A 9 cell battery would be fine I reckon if it's cheapest.

Rest all looks ok.


----------



## wolfeking

yea, I probably should have gotten the ATG version. (it is like the dell toughbook) or better yet a toughbook. 

eh, the 9 cell is only $7 less. http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-Cell-Batt...68400?pt=Laptop_Batteries&hash=item2a22204c10 

Is there anything else that may be worth a investment here at all? or should I just keep the excess? (so unusual to even have excess. )


----------



## spirit

If the 12 cell isn't much more I'd say go for the 12 cell. 

The rest looks fine.


----------



## wolfeking

okay. This went smoother than I expected.   So, I think the list will be: 
(2) 12 cell batteries, maybe a third later on depending on how well the power cycle on one is. 
(1) floppy drive 
(1) HDD drive.


----------



## spirit

All looks good.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, so I was thinking it out a little more.  

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018   is this pretty much THE best air cooler? Is it worth the money? or should I take a chance on leaks with a H80? 

Also, Jason I know you can help here because you have one, or could ask your pop. 
What would be involved in setting up a server with automatic backups of documents, pictures and the like? Would 8 GB and a G530 be enough to do it? What OS would be needed? I have XP, vista, and 7 keys, as well as access to any linux ever invented that carries USB.  Would one of them work?  Figured I could do that with my extra parts laying around. Be better than them sitting there.


----------



## spirit

Yeah the NH-D14 is a great cooler without getting too massive (it is big though). I would probably get that over the H80. Your RAM should be fine underneath it, it's low profile isn't it? Gamer 2?

As for servers, the best way to make an "automatic backup" is to have 2 disks in RAID-1, that mirrors one drive as I'm sure you know - is that what you're looking for? That's how our server works at home. Doesn't matter what CPU you have and how much RAM you have (unless you want to build something like an e-mail server or something, but just for storing files, which is presumably what you want to do, it doesn't matter), all you need is a board which can do RAID-1, which 99% can.

OS wise, any of those will be fine. Vista or 7 64-bit would be good with 8GB of RAM,


----------



## wolfeking

Okay. the NH-D14 it is then.  

I am not sure if the ASrock H61DE/S3 supports RAID 1 or not. I am not seeing it listed at ASrock or Newegg as supporting RAID 1.   

Okay, so If I set it up with 7_64 bit and 2 3TB drives in RAID 1, how would I go about setting it up to backup the 2 laptops, the desktop, and Sisters laptop? Is it just a program that I can install on the computers that will do it? (mind now that the D630 and M90 are running 2k/XP and sister is running 8 RP).   

Also adding to the list yet again. Slowly running out of money here again, but stuff I really want/need. 

(2) 12 cell batteries
(1)  floppy drive
(1) SATA drive 
(1) NH-D14 
(1) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190 

TO get the server up is probably going to wait a bit. I need a case, 2 HDD, and a PSU and some more memory to run it. 

And yes, it is the gamer 2 memory. Low profile as it gets with standard DIMMs.


----------



## spirit

Have a look in your board manual and see if it supports RAID-1.

If you have external drives you can most probably use programs which will routinely create system images of your laptops.


----------



## wolfeking

I don't have a board manual. All that came with it was the I/O shield and the board. It was a cheap-o ebay find to tide over when I had to RMA the extreme 4. 

I will look it up though.   May wait and set it up on the extreme 4 as the server if I can get a better board for the daily use PC.  decisions decisions.  
I could do that, but I would need a external drive. I can probably pick one up at walmart, but not too sure.  All I really need to do is to make a restore point on the external drive will all the docs and .exe(s) that I had on it, and the drivers of coarse. It is easy and quick enough to reinstall windows on them.


----------



## spirit

Yeah I'm sure software can be had which can back up stuff up on a schedule. You could always partition your existing drives in your laptop - not sure...

Download a copy of the manual from the manufacturer. Some of the very low end boards don't have RAID support. I know my Foxconn H55M-S didn't

On a side note - long live this thread... lol


----------



## wolfeking

definately. Lol.  

And it seems, talking via IM with a ASrock rep (surprising to me really) that the H61DE/S3 does not support RAID. It supports ACHI, but not RAID.


----------



## spirit

What? Instant Messaging tech support? That's new - I thought it was emails or phone??

Eh looks like if you want RAID with board you'd have to buy a RAID card and by the time you've forked out for a good one it would probably have just been cheaper and easier to get another board.


----------



## wolfeking

spirit said:


> What? Instant Messaging tech support? That's new - I thought it was emails or phone??
> 
> Eh looks like if you want RAID with board you'd have to buy a RAID card and by the time you've forked out for a good one it would probably have just been cheaper and easier to get another board.


 Actually not tech support. It was sales support. But they knew enough to tell me what I wanted to know. I told them I was wanting to buy the board, but I needed RAID.  (small fib but got the information easy enough). 

Yea, that is what I was thinking too.  Probably grab a P67 asus, Gigabyte, or EVGA and use the extreme 4 for RAID in the server. Assuming that it does not decide to go AWOL and die again.


----------



## spirit

I reckon if you don't overclock anything on that board it should be OK.


----------



## wolfeking

well it will be running the celeron, so no worries on overclocking. I will undervolt it again (it is stable at .950V) just to cool it down and save power.  I will be using the 212 EVO with it too to keep it cool (should be right down chilly seeing as it never topped 40* on stock cooling). 

Might seem like a stupid question at this point, but would windows home server work for this? Seems like it might be made for something like this.


----------



## spirit

Windows Home Server should work but I'd stick to one of the OSes you already have.


----------



## wolfeking

well WHS seems to be built for this, and it is only $40 new.  So it would not be as much as dropping a new key on windows 7, which I don't need.   I guess I am asking is I should use the right tool, or jury rig a spanner to do the job.


----------



## spirit

If you think Home Server does what you need it to do, go right ahead. I've only ever used Windows Small Business Server really, so I haven't tried Home Server.


----------



## wolfeking

Sorry bout taking so long to get back to you. I got caught by the bell again.  

Anyway, I was thinking that it would be better, especially for the price, because it is already setup to do what I want to do basically. (going off the following info). 


> Windows Home Server 2011, code named Vail[3], is a home server operating system by Microsoft and a successor to the Windows Home Server 'Quattro' operating system designed for Small Office/Home Office (SOHO).[4] Windows Home Server is intended to be a solution for *homes with multiple connected PCs to offer protected file storage, file sharing, automated PC backup,* remote access, and remote control of PC desktops.[5][6]


----------



## spirit

Hmm ok sounds quite good. Give it a go!


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## wolfeking

I might.  Gunna wait on that though as I don't have enough to get a new board, 2 HDDs, and some RAM, as well as a case just yet.


----------



## spirit

Ok then.

You do have lots of different ideas don't you?


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## wolfeking

I am chopped full of them.  Problem being I always end up with 6 million ways to get to the end, but I generally end up taking a jagged coarse between 4 or 5 of them and get to some end destination 5k km from where I wanted to be.


----------



## wolfeking

Okay, had a idea, but questions...  Should I go for RAM now, or go for a better board? Or maybe grab a case? IF I grab a case, then I can get a better PSU latter and be 2 steps closer to the Server.


----------



## wolfeking

Okay, so moving to a more on topic set of options.  All of this is for the desktop unless otherwise stated. 

RAM: Starting with 16GB again. Not sure of a farther upgrade. If I fancy a bigger upgrade, then I will just get the full amount then. But also the 8GB DIMMs are about teh same price. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104292
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220638
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104169
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220619
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104340 

which would you get? I trust these two companies. and they are small enough to fit under the HSF easily. 

or I can get a motherboard. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130581
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128545 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188097
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157265
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130573 

or maybe something else?  

And I want to get a add in wireless card for the laptop.  Not sure of the adapter I have, it is either express card or the IDE version.  Just looking for something that does not overheat and is G/N capable. The integrated card is overheating a bit causing it to disconnect (which is not good at school).


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> Okay, so moving to a more on topic set of options.  All of this is for the desktop unless otherwise stated.
> 
> RAM: Starting with 16GB again. Not sure of a farther upgrade. If I fancy a bigger upgrade, then I will just get the full amount then. But also the 8GB DIMMs are about teh same price.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104292
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220638
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104169
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220619
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104340
> 
> which would you get? I trust these two companies. and they are small enough to fit under the HSF easily.
> 
> or I can get a motherboard.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130581
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128545
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188097
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157265
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130573
> 
> or maybe something else?
> 
> And I want to get a add in wireless card for the laptop.  Not sure of the adapter I have, it is either express card or the IDE version.  Just looking for something that does not overheat and is G/N capable. The integrated card is overheating a bit causing it to disconnect (which is not good at school).



What is series of your laptop? D630?  I know any type of old wireless card.  It can be PCMCIA (cardbus) i think.  Should be Type 1 or 2.


----------



## wolfeking

yea. Latitude D630.  The Wireless card that is in it is micro PCIe, but it is full height. 

I would prefer to just replace it with a slide in card so that I don't have to worry about opening it up again. (though at this time, it is easy enough to pull it apart. Full disassembly in about 5 minutes and reassembly in about 7 minutes.).


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> yea. Latitude D630.  The Wireless card that is in it is micro PCIe, but it is full height.
> 
> I would prefer to just replace it with a slide in card so that I don't have to worry about opening it up again. (though at this time, it is easy enough to pull it apart. Full disassembly in about 5 minutes and reassembly in about 7 minutes.).



Understandable, I found out it is PCMCIA cardbus.  I have Belkin cardbus, D-link cardbus and D-link PCI-express.  They're all good wireless card.  

I hate to tell bad news.  There isn't a lot of good cardbus wireless on newegg.com but amazon.com have many good cardbus.  Or it can be found via ebay.  

Here is my recommend of wireless cardbus.  
http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DWA-65...77118&sr=8-3&keywords=cardbus+wireless+d-link
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F5D801...77019&sr=8-1&keywords=cardbus+wireless+belkin


----------



## wolfeking

I don't mind buying from amazon. I get things from them all the time. 

I think I will go for the belkin over the D link as it looks like it is smaller (height, not length). 

So I guess it looks like right now my list of what I am getting is down to: 
(1) Belkin wireless
(1) NH-D14 HSF 
(1) SATA drive 
(2) 12 cell battery
(1) floppy drive 
(1?) wireless router. Might not get this, depends on what I figure out. as far as RAM and Mobo. 

and then either RAM or a Motherboard. Not sure which, if either.


----------



## wolfeking

wolfeking said:


> Okay, so moving to a more on topic set of options.  All of this is for the desktop unless otherwise stated.
> 
> RAM: Starting with 16GB again. Not sure of a farther upgrade. If I fancy a bigger upgrade, then I will just get the full amount then. But also the 8GB DIMMs are about teh same price.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104292
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220638
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104169
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220619
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104340
> 
> which would you get? I trust these two companies. and they are small enough to fit under the HSF easily.
> 
> or I can get a motherboard.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130581
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128545
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188097
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157265
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130573
> 
> or maybe something else?
> 
> And I want to get a add in wireless card for the laptop.  Not sure of the adapter I have, it is either express card or the IDE version.  Just looking for something that does not overheat and is G/N capable. The integrated card is overheating a bit causing it to disconnect (which is not good at school).



another idea. Would kill SLI idea, but may be worth it in the long run.  
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186048

Do you rekon that this would be worth 10*c or so drop in temps? Not really sure if it will help. Might need to clean my case and card, but I am not happy with 88*C load temps (well within specs, but I am not happy with it). Hoping to cool it down to 70s at least.  

Or maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186052


----------



## spirit

Unless you want to overclock your 480 I wouldn't bother with an aftermarket cooler.

If I were going to choose any one of those boards I'd go for either the EVGA Z68 SLI or the GA-Z77X-UD5H. Your 2600K would probably work better with the Z68 board.

RAM wise, yep, they're two good brands. Go for whichever is cheaper.


----------



## wolfeking

Overclocking it won't help any at all. No need to get 4 or 5 extra frames when I am already getting 120+ frames in my most demanding game (BF3).   But I am still worrying that it may be getting too hot. I know it runs hot, but that is not something that worries me. I am worried however that it may not be pulling the chips heat out as efficiently as it could be.  

I guess what I am saying is, is it in trouble at ~90* load, or will it be fine till I can get a better cooler later (after I rule out PSU, Case, and processor as offenders in the high temps). 

Board wise, I am not really sure still. EVGA is the champ. ... Gigabyte, is a good one too.  

RAM, That is what I was thinking. I will probably jump on Kingston if I get it. That is just a brand loyalty thing. it used to be all my ram was kingston, but patriot was cheaper when I started this endless venture. 

What about a case? Would that maybe help with temps? I was thinking the Lanboy Air. That is a cool looking case, and modular too. But I am not a fan of seeing the insides of the computer while they work. But I can take a guess that the mesh panels would cause the air flow to be better. 
Was also thinking of grabbing some shrink wrap, and a dremel grinder and modding the 912 to be better at cable managing.  Might also get a metal panel to help with the cable space behind the board. 

Aye, all these ideas. Too many ideas maybe.


----------



## spirit

Yeah it's a 480, it's not going to run cool. The problem could be your case, or maybe the card needs a good dusting out? Case wise, well you know I like the Phantom, but I know you don't really. If you ask me, the Lanboy looks a bit like a cage, but that's my opinion. The Switch 810 is still nice I think, and so is the Lian-Li PC-K62.

Well the 2600K will work out of the box with the EVGA and as it is Sandy Bridge it won't be able to use all the features the Z77X has to offer. The EVGA is pretty cheap too - 110 bucks.


----------



## wolfeking

well, I am not really sure on a case yet. I don't really want to jump on anything again until I am 5000% sure it is THE case for me.    
I was liking the C70 in Olive Drab, but it looks a bit small. But then again the newegg pics don't have any components inside or a ruler inside to get a scale of it.  I like the switch 810, but it had a window, didn't it?  And I am not 100% that the airflow through them is all that great, well on any of the cases here yet. The 912 was supposed to be good with airflow too, but the only air I ever feel moving is right behind the HSF and out the back from the graphics. And all of the fan bays are full and up on 100% RPM. 

The EVGA looks good, and is cheap. but I am not 100% on it. It seems that the specs don't agree with the hardware. It says PCIe is 16/8/4 leading to 8/8/4 SLI/CF, but the back side also shows that it is pinned out for 16 on all 3 ports.   Maybe there is a BIOS hack to fix that, but I doubt it. Just seems like they would not waste the time or money to pin it out for 16 if they never wanted to use 16.
Not sure.


----------



## spirit

I don't know for sure but for the price that EVGA is a great board. Z68's a good chipset too, love my Z68 board.


----------



## wolfeking

I know I have probably asked before, but what is the difference in features between P67 and Z68? Would there be any real benefit to it? 

I am thinking about doing a mod case setup maybe. Still looking at that. Staying with the 912 if I can.


----------



## spirit

Z68 allows for overclocking of the CPU, GPU and RAM (whereas P67 only the CPU and RAM) and Z68 allows use of onboard video which P67 does not (onboard video can be very handy by the way).


----------



## wolfeking

well, the EVGA board does not have any video connectors on the I/O area. So basically on that board anyway, it is just a chipset name that is separating them it seems.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, so I am 50% sure I know what I want to do now. And I hope I am right, because I am cutting it close with the bills to make it work. 

Asus P8P67-WS board. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131714  I like the look. I like 16/16/8/8 SLI options. That is 4 way SLI for the win. But going 2 way only for now. 

Red Hyperx 16GB kit http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104341 

NH-D14. 

then the batteries, floppy drive, floppy disk (100 pack) and SATA drive.  

this is cutting it very close assuming I do not sell the extreme 4 before then. Assuming the same as always for groceries, I have a $30.79 buffer.


----------



## spirit

Looks fine to me. Can you get those DIMMs in blue or black though? I have red DIMMs on my blue/black ASUS board and it looks a bit weird, lol.


----------



## wolfeking

they come in blue and grey and red I think. Here is the full list of 8GB DIMMs. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...6127 600006072&IsNodeId=1&name=16GB (2 x 8GB)


----------



## spirit

Blue would go best.


----------



## wolfeking

okay. I will get the blue then.

Everything else looks good then?


----------



## wolfeking

Okay, change of plans. Going to jump on a Switch 810 and ditch the Asus board. That way I am open to Extended ATX. That leaves me to a P67 FTW or Gigabyte Z77 sniper 3. Either would be a brilliant board, and better than the Asus WS board.


----------



## wolfeking

Okay, trying to do it a little better now. Lets see how it will do. Going to set it up in 2 list, one for Le lappy and one for CM1. 

Lappy: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Floppy-...104&pid=100011&prg=1005&rk=4&sd=150899831435& (just to have some more.) 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Floppy...loppy_Zip_Jaz_Drives&hash=item20c769c50b#shId (to use the above) 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-cell-Bat...1978099575906608266&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1& (already budgeted for 2) 

And depending on what I do on the desktop, I may get one of these. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139949
If not, then I will stick to the HDD in the laptop. 

Desktop options list, in order of decreasing like in each group. Max budget is 375 or so $25 margin of error. 
(monitor) 
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...ynoteSearch&baynote_bnrank=8&baynote_irrank=0
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACHIEVA-Shi...0951?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item3f1ba1fe97  (I really like this one, and claptonman has one) 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009306 (cheaper than dell) 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254091 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-VS229H...6375?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item46051b0067 (IPS yes?) 

(Graphics) 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130782 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130809
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129205
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102982R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102987

(Power) 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171063
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341053
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371060

(RAM)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220637
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104302
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220690
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104169

(HDD) 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844 

(Cooler) (this one is not in any order. So many looked good that I am just throwing them on here as I get to the tab) 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608024
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181017
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106190
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186066 (extreme means good, yes?) 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709004
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118097
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106186
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835220047
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835242021 (this looks exactly like what 87dtna recommended) 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106178 

So what would you choose in the 375 budget here? I don't really need a graphics card, as a monitor would be needed to make use of it.


----------



## jonnyp11

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/550?vs=647

depending on the games you want to play the 7950 and 660ti look pretty equal, although i'd get this 7950 way before that one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202006

For the psu i'm split between the antec and the cooler master, the fatality just seems too low on the amperage for the stuff you got (what is it now? 2 480's and whichever gpu?). The antec looks good with a total of 160 amps but it's split over 4 rails, but that should still be fine, just not entirely sure on that

IDK about the ram, it's up to you, you know how much you'll need and all so you shouldn't really need us to tell you that...

Not sure on the cooler, many look good, but overall the arctic stands out to me with the copper tubing which should transfer the heat better, but that doesn't mean it will cooler better or quieter.

For the actual question...

IDK what exactly you'll be doing (well i do some but...) enough to say what you need without seeing the performance myself. IIRC you have the 2600k running at a good high clock on the 212 so i wouldn't spend 80 to go from 4.2ghz to 4.5 or anything, and running at those speeds is overvolting a good bit probably and draining the processors life (if you ain't got it intel actually has overclocker's insurance for like 30 or 35, worth looking into if you want to play with it more). I don't know how full your current hdd is or how soon it will fill up so i can't say anything about the hdd. RAM is the same as i said above, idk what you need, 16 should be fine but 8 shouldn't really hold you back much. Not sure the current psu so can't say and unless you get a 3rd gpu then you shouldn't need more, and you didn't want to get the gpu since it is useless on the current monitor...that money is just no good, you should just give it to me so you don't have to worry about spending it  

Really i'd go for the gpu (of course power issues possible...but i'd personally just get rid of the 480's or sli them for gaming and leave it at that instead of folding), then next month get a monitor like that (someone here got one like that, try to find out which if you can). As for which gpu, i'd get the 660ti probably for drivers, the games it does better on are generally bigger titles, and it comes with borderlands 2 (great game and if you don't want it, if you've seen the rol or whatever thread it was, then you know i'll take it )


----------



## wolfeking

My current setup is: 
HAF 912 (need a new drill bit to mod it some more.  ) with all fan bays filled up with 120s.
LG DVD drive
Extreme 4 motherboard, that is getting sorted a little at a time. 
2600k @ stock (can hold 4.6 auto OC but in the lower 80s temps) 
8GB of Gamer 2 @ 1333 (1600 stock, can hold 1866 @ CAS 9 and 2133 @ CAS11.) 
GTX 480 @ stock speeds EVGA reference design 
OCZ modstream 600 watt. I hate this PSU, it is not long enough (all the cables are too short just about) 
1TB HDD @ 820 GB used 
640GB @ 400 GB used 
128GB SSD @ fresh install of vista and drivers used. 
720p Dell monitor 
212 EVO cooler. 

I am maxxing my RAM out fairly regularly on windows 7. Will do so on vista too.  Running simulations and rendering images, and rendering on CAD, I could do with as much RAM as possible. I don't mind spending money on that at all. 



My main issue, as it has been before, is that if I don't spend it on my computer, I end up spending it on Trumpets or other music things.  I have just gotten my F. Besson fixed, so I really need to stop worrying with those.


----------



## jonnyp11

you got nearly 500gb free so you can hold the hdd off till next month, not a curren priority for 150 bucks imo.

I'd stick the 16gb kit in and if you still need more then sell the current 8 and grab another 16 later, i'd go for these cuz for 5 bucks they look alot cooler and match the mobo's black coloring

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...na&AID=10446076&PID=4169961&SID=1t62ieyp7bcn2

I mean if it can hold 4.6 in the lower 80's i'd leave the cpu around 4ghz provided it wasn't overvolted too much, one or 2 over the max default won't do too much, though if it is still jumping around so much that wouldn't be great.

and i wouldn't want a 480 and a 660ti or anything on that psu, but like you had said, no point in wasting a 660ti on a 720p, but you'd have to make that a 3 month split order or something unless you can get an advance but who knows what might pop up over that time.

Really your just in an odd spot where a lot could be done but nothing really needs to be done. I think i might go for the monitor and ram if possible now, next month take the 480 out and get the 660ti, then after that get the new psu and put the 480 back in for folding if you must.


----------



## wolfeking

jonnyp11 said:


> you got nearly 500gb free so you can hold the hdd off till next month, not a curren priority for 150 bucks imo.


That is what I am thinking. They might continue coming down in price too. 



> I'd stick the 16gb kit in and if you still need more then sell the current 8 and grab another 16 later, i'd go for these cuz for 5 bucks they look alot cooler and match the mobo's black coloring
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...na&AID=10446076&PID=4169961&SID=1t62ieyp7bcn2


I would love to know where everyone keeps thinking the Extreme 4 is a black motherboard. If it is black, I am colour blind. It is brown. 

Cool is a matter of opinion. To me Ram is Ram. It would be cooler if it could hum a march and had a flashing sign announcing its intentions. 
I like subdued RAM, well all computer parts really. 



> I mean if it can hold 4.6 in the lower 80's i'd leave the cpu around 4ghz provided it wasn't overvolted too much, one or 2 over the max default won't do too much, though if it is still jumping around so much that wouldn't be great.


The voltage jump is still there. We are working on that. Testing RAM currently.  But I would not want to run it at 4GHz. I can leave it at stock and still do as much work as 4GHz (that is a .2 GHz difference).   4.6-5GHz is where I want it ideally. The current cooler is not cutting it there. It is good I rekon, it does 45* @ stock on idle 68-70* stock at full load, which I guess is better than stock cooler. 



> and i wouldn't want a 480 and a 660ti or anything on that psu, but like you had said, no point in wasting a 660ti on a 720p, but you'd have to make that a 3 month split order or something unless you can get an advance but who knows what might pop up over that time.


It will not run both anyway. Not enough PCIe leads.  And it is one or the other, not both. I can not run both because of a severe lack of PCIe bandwidth.  The x8 bandwidth will hurt it in folding definitely. 




> Really your just in an odd spot where a lot could be done but nothing really needs to be done. I think i might go for the monitor and ram if possible now, next month take the 480 out and get the 660ti, then after that get the new psu and put the 480 back in for folding if you must.


[/quote] 
There is something that needs to be done. It needs to be cleaned a bit, finishing the cable management mods (because CM were retards when they designed it to start with), and repainted, as a lot of the paint is starting to peel.  

I think what I may do, assuming Jason does not see any major issues with it is I will get a 1080p monitor, maybe that 1440p and get a RAM kit and be done. and call it done. Save later if I need a Graphics card or anything more and put it in then.


----------



## FuryRosewood

i would recommend against the 660Ti if you wish to use AA at all. it gets severely bottlenecked compared to other solutions in the price range.


----------



## wolfeking

Other solutions in that price range are AMD cards, and the only way I would buy them is if they were on sale for about $20 for a 7970. That is what they are worth in my opinion.


----------



## Jamebonds1

FuryRosewood said:


> i would recommend against the 660Ti if you wish to use AA at all. it gets severely bottlenecked compared to other solutions in the price range.



It is newest that support PCIe 3.0 and is affordable, but it is not going get you over 60 FPS avg on Crysis 2.


----------



## wolfeking

resolution. A 480 will get you 60 FPS maxxed at 720p.


----------



## spirit

My advice to you would be to get that EVGA 670 you were looking at, it's the strongest of the cards you listed there and as you want to do CAD and stuff and you said to me you'd likely be using CUDA, I think it will be a good choice.

As for RAM, leave it for now, you can upgrade later. As for the monitor, eh, I don't know a lot about them. Those ones there you listed all seem pretty good. I know ASUS make good monitors and apparently Acer's monitors are also pretty good. I use Iiyama myself - ProLite E2409HDS. I love the 1ms or 2ms response time (I forget how fast it is now) but for some reason they don't seem to be available in the States.


----------



## wolfeking

I would honestly prefer not to mess with the graphics too much currently. The 480 seems to be doing well with it currently. 

I would like to get a higher resolution and more RAM as is.  I am liking the SSD on the Marvel controler as is. Though right now it is the only drive plugged up (stress testing for temps after the reinstall currently.)  It is certainly better than running on the intel SATA 3 ports, which is not normal, but I can not find a reason why.

I will be back at 1100 hours local (1600 hours your time I think). Been up all night and all night the night before. Bout time for some shuteye.


----------



## spirit

I always had performance issues with Marvell's 6GB/s controllers but if they work for you then that's good news. Maybe Marvell put better controllers on the Z77 boards? Who knows.

OK well if you don't want a new GPU put the money into RAM and a new monitor.


----------



## Jamebonds1

I agree with Jason.  GTX 480 or GTX 670 (in case if you decide) would be good for CAD and photo design since it has CUDA.  

I starting to miss my 9600 GT


----------



## Jamebonds1

spirit said:


> I always had performance issues with Marvell's 6GB/s controllers but if they work for you then that's good news. Maybe Marvell put better controllers on the Z77 boards? Who knows.
> 
> OK well if you don't want a new GPU put the money into RAM and a new monitor.



I have Marvell 6 GB/s for eSATA.  Never tried but i would if i buy two hard drive for raid.  Plus i used to have Marvell wireless.


----------



## wolfeking

I think that is what I will do.   And it is not that I don't want a new graphics card, but I will not see much benefit at all from a new one at these resolutions. And without the FERMI hotclock feature, it will not do everything much better than what I have (other than just the pure number of cores. Without hotclock, each shader is 1/2 of a fermi shader, so divide by 2 to get th eapproximate fermi cores. 1536/2 = 768. 

I think the marvel controller is working as it should, cutting a bit of performance, but still faster than 300MB/s on Intel controller. I think that is a mess up in the eSATA port somewhere.


----------



## spirit

Is it possible to disable e-SATA in the BIOS? On all the boards I've used, e-SATA just plugs into any old SATA port on the motherboard.


----------



## wolfeking

Not them eSATA ports. the one in the I/O area. It shares bandwidth with the Intel SATA3 ports. And no, I have found no option in the BIOS for it.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> Not them eSATA ports. the one in the I/O area. It shares bandwidth with the Intel SATA3 ports. And no, I have found no option in the BIOS for it.


There's your problem.


----------



## wolfeking

how do you mean?


----------



## spirit

I think that is what could potentially bottlenecking your Intel controller.

Regardless, you got the Marvell one to work. Can you disable the Intel 6GB/s controller in the BIOS?


----------



## wolfeking

Nope, just the Marvell.  

I don't think it is supposed to lock it down unless you actually are using the eSATA port, which I am not.


----------



## spirit

Oh well, doesn't really make all that much of a difference now you're using Marvell.


----------



## wolfeking

Yea, just kind of seems illogical though that I bought a 830 samsung when I am only getting M4 speeds at max.  M4 uses less energy too, so better on a laptop.


----------



## spirit

Crucial M4? I was getting over 500MB/s read with my M4 at one point. The M4 is a fast drive, believe you me!


----------



## wolfeking

yea. And I thought it was 480 reads more or less. ?


----------



## spirit

It was something like 425MB/s IIRC but every time I updated the firmware it got a little faster.

Basically they're fast. So is the SanDisk I have now.


----------



## wolfeking

Well, I am getting 480 more or less on the Marvell controller. A faster drive would probably get about the same anyway.   I got to time it again, but I know it is booting at 17 seconds before i set it up.


----------



## claptonman

wolfeking said:


> Other solutions in that price range are AMD cards, and the only way I would buy them is if they were on sale for about $20 for a 7970. That is what they are worth in my opinion.



If you ever want to go to 1440p, a 7970 would be the best choice. Their memory bus is much faster than the 6xx cards. Kind of wish I got one now that I have my 1440p.

But I know you do a lot of folding, so you'll never get one.


----------



## wolfeking

I will never get a AMD card anyway. It is not a folding thing, or even a CAD thing. I hate the company with a burning passion.


----------



## spirit

When why'd you ask for our opinions on the 7950?


----------



## wolfeking

because it is better for gaming. But I also said I prefer not to upgrade the graphics as it would be wasted on the 720p resolution.


----------



## spirit

That's true.

So you're looking for a new monitor then?


----------



## wolfeking

to be honest I do not know what I am looking for.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, for now I am going for this setup. I will probably also grab a cheap case to make use of my other board, but maybe not. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009306
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119012


----------



## wolfeking

Okay, so on a path to getting back to where I was. Got to BCLK 106 and multi 40 for speed of 4230 MHz.  Yay.  1.250V for temps of 66* average, 74* on the hot core. 

One thing that is worrying me is that I think my case is coming apart. The PSU was rattling a little bit, but applying a little pressure on the top makes it stop (I don't mean like push on it, just sitting a screwdriver on top of it), making me think it is either rattling on the case, or came loose from the mount screws. Ill check into it later. 

Currently running P95, and it is going to run till after Dr Who tomorrow just to be sure. Probably going to leave this OC for a week, and do some gaming on it and such. Then next weekend I will try multi of 44 for 4.6GHz that the auto OC was running at. 



Now back to the thread topic, do you think that it would be better to get another fan to go in push/pull, or just leave it put?  
Also probably going to grab a cheap-o SSD for la lappy again, depending on what I can get for it at that time. This HDD is getting on my nerves.  Not the speed of it, I am fine with that, besides boot time, I see no difference at all.  Everytime I boot up, or resume, or anything that accesses the drive heavy it spins up and sounds like a turbo prop starting, feels like it too.  Never bothered me till I went a while without it.  

RAM is staying put for now.  

Storage is staying put for now. (might grab a 64GB flashkey to save some jnk on.) 

Case, need to grab a drill bit, a grinder (like a dremel tool I think) and some more spray paint to finish up. I am happy with how the front panel connector reroute turned out, so I am going to do that with some more of the wires. 

Graphics, staying put. It is running fine, and from what I am seeing, should be able to handle 1080p just fine. 
BF3 will run fine on it at 1080p for sure, as will warfighter (budgeting for that, as I want to continue the story, and I have all the other MOH games ever made). 

I guess what I am saying is that I am mainly staying put. Just grabbing a monitor, Dual link cable, and SSD for le laptop.


----------



## jonnyp11

wolfeking said:


> Okay, so on a path to getting back to where I was. Got to BCLK 106 and multi 40 for speed of 4230 MHz.  Yay.  1.250V for temps of 66* average, 74* on the hot core.
> 
> One thing that is worrying me is that I think my case is coming apart. The PSU was rattling a little bit, but applying a little pressure on the top makes it stop (I don't mean like push on it, just sitting a screwdriver on top of it), making me think it is either rattling on the case, or came loose from the mount screws. Ill check into it later.
> 
> Currently running P95, and it is going to run till after Dr Who tomorrow just to be sure. Probably going to leave this OC for a week, and do some gaming on it and such. Then next weekend I will try multi of 44 for 4.6GHz that the auto OC was running at.
> 
> 
> 
> Now back to the thread topic, do you think that it would be better to get another fan to go in push/pull, or just leave it put?
> Also probably going to grab a cheap-o SSD for la lappy again, depending on what I can get for it at that time. This HDD is getting on my nerves.  Not the speed of it, I am fine with that, besides boot time, I see no difference at all.  Everytime I boot up, or resume, or anything that accesses the drive heavy it spins up and sounds like a turbo prop starting, feels like it too.  Never bothered me till I went a while without it.
> 
> RAM is staying put for now.
> 
> Storage is staying put for now. (might grab a 64GB flashkey to save some jnk on.)
> 
> Case, need to grab a drill bit, a grinder (like a dremel tool I think) and some more spray paint to finish up. I am happy with how the front panel connector reroute turned out, so I am going to do that with some more of the wires.
> 
> Graphics, staying put. It is running fine, and from what I am seeing, should be able to handle 1080p just fine.
> BF3 will run fine on it at 1080p for sure, as will warfighter (budgeting for that, as I want to continue the story, and I have all the other MOH games ever made).
> 
> I guess what I am saying is that I am mainly staying put. Just grabbing a monitor, Dual link cable, and SSD for le laptop.



yeah, might not be maxing stuff but you'll be fine for any game out for a while, easily getting high settings, my 470 maxes everything at 1280x1024 and normally averages really well.


----------



## wolfeking

Actually for every game I have I should be maxxing it at 1080p with a 480. Battlefield 3 will be maxxing easy.  Everything else I could max at 1080p with the 4870 (seeing as they are all basically console ports and make little use of computer power.  MOH and MW2/3 for example).


----------



## claptonman

The switch is $120 after rebate, by the way.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/386972/Switch_810_Full_Tower_ATX_Computer_Case


----------



## spirit

jonnyp11 said:


> yeah, might not be maxing stuff but you'll be fine for any game out for a while, easily getting high settings, my 470 maxes everything at 1280x1024 and normally averages really well.



I hope you can max everything out at 1280x1024 on a 470, else there are some problems!

A 480 will be fine for 1080p. My 5870 still maxes games out at 1080p and the 480 is a stronger card than the 5870.


----------



## Jamebonds1

claptonman said:


> The switch is $120 after rebate, by the way.
> 
> http://www.microcenter.com/product/386972/Switch_810_Full_Tower_ATX_Computer_Case



I don't meant getting into meddle something but Wolfeking is look for case with no windows and I think he already choose case.


----------



## wolfeking

claptonman said:


> The switch is $120 after rebate, by the way.
> 
> http://www.microcenter.com/product/386972/Switch_810_Full_Tower_ATX_Computer_Case


I like that case, but I probably won't be getting it. It depends on a rebate for that price, and I have never had luck with rebates.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, simple question here now.  Which of these would you get to use on the SATA 2 interface? Similar size and price. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139949
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227811


----------



## spirit

Kingston is rated for a higher read/write speed. Their SSDs are meant to be very reliable too.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, then that is the one I will get.


----------



## jonnyp11

of course it's reviewed on their for crap and for 15/20 more you can double the size

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227812


----------



## spirit

^ Out of stock.


----------



## wolfeking

I don't need double the size. It is going to run XP and that takes a maximum of 10GB for everything I install to it.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, list as of now. Any changes needed? 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227757 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260037 (do I need to grab a dual link cable to go with it?) 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220619 Maybe. Not sure I want it yet.


----------



## jonnyp11

is that monitor really worth the extra money? would love to be able to compare things like that in person with the right settings and all to actually see the difference and not just go by hearsay.


----------



## wolfeking

It is the same monitor I currently have, just in 1080p and 21.5 instead of 19.   NOt sure if it is worth more. Just know acer sucks balls with everything else. Why would the monitors be any different?


----------



## jonnyp11

the contrast, color quality, how detailed the settings are, etc., there's a lot of difference from monitor to monitor really if you really care, i for one say if it works i don't care, get the colors close to true and leave it.


----------



## wolfeking

I know all that. But by the time that I would go round and get a good one the budget would be blown to hell.  Really want a 17" ish (no bigger than 18") 1080p or 1200p IPS display with 2ms response and a matte screen, but such a thing does not exist outside the laptop industry. Which sucks donkey because the larger displays don't carry anywhere near the display quality (in terms of DPI). Heck a 1080p at 21.5" (generally the smallest size available ) would be lower image quality (still in DPI) than the 14" screen on my D630 (15% less DPI. 120 vs 102). 

But for the time being, I am more concerned with quality than picture.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, final list I hope. Maybe. Unless you see a problem Jonny and Jason. As is paying off my charge card I will have $90 extra, so I hope this is all good. 

Laptop stuffs
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-cell-Bat...1978099575906608266&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1& (x2) 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Fog-Whit...t=US_Floppy_Zip_Jaz_Disks&hash=item2322a2a9f2 (went down from 100, as I have quite a few boxes full coming down with grandad on the 12th) 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Floppy...loppy_Zip_Jaz_Drives&hash=item20c769c50b#shId (cause the above are no good without it) 

Desktop: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260056 (I don't understand the GTG thing, but I guess it is good).


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> okay, final list I hope. Maybe. Unless you see a problem Jonny and Jason. As is paying off my charge card I will have $90 extra, so I hope this is all good.
> 
> Laptop stuffs
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-cell-Bat...1978099575906608266&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1& (x2)
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Fog-Whit...t=US_Floppy_Zip_Jaz_Disks&hash=item2322a2a9f2 (went down from 100, as I have quite a few boxes full coming down with grandad on the 12th)
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Floppy...loppy_Zip_Jaz_Drives&hash=item20c769c50b#shId (cause the above are no good without it)
> 
> Desktop:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260056 (I don't understand the GTG thing, but I guess it is good).



Monitor isn't bad.  All laptop part are good.  GTG mean Gray to Gray.  It is really good for picture color.  It take only 2 ms to change color via gray to color.


----------



## wolfeking

would it be better than the E series I was looking at? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260037. 

I know they are both 5ms monitors, but is it better than the older series?


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> would it be better than the E series I was looking at? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260037.
> 
> I know they are both 5ms monitors, but is it better than the older series?



They're same specs except for type of LCD.  It depend on what you choose.  Such as cheap monitor, TN LCD or newest monitor.  Can't hurt to buying old monitor if you choose.  

In my experience I like TFT since it is easy to view movie and picture, but TN is fastest response time.


----------



## wolfeking

I am not sure which I will get. I like them both, but the new one is cheaper, meaning that is an advantage. I am not sure yet what I will get as a monitor. Might just hold off. Not really sure.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> I am not sure which I will get. I like them both, but the new one is cheaper, meaning that is an advantage. I am not sure yet what I will get as a monitor. Might just hold off. Not really sure.



I have TFT monitor which is good enough for my picture.  Just for hint.


----------



## spirit

I think everything looks fine.


----------



## wolfeking

which one was the TFT monitor? 

Or, better yet since you seem to know a lot about them, what would you get for $200 or less for 1080p at newegg?


----------



## wolfeking

spirit said:


> I think everything looks fine.



Okay. Not much changed really. Just the monitor, which we are sorting right now.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> which one was the TFT monitor?
> 
> Or, better yet since you seem to know a lot about them, what would you get for $200 or less for 1080p at newegg?



That would be this one TFT i was talk about.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260056

But if you're talk about 200 dollar monitor i would go for this one.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236153


----------



## wolfeking

ok, but why? Just because it cost $200? and it is bigger.  meaning worse picture quality.


----------



## spirit

The ASUS has a faster response time, it will be better for gaming. 1920x1080 is what I use on a 24" and it's a good resolution.


----------



## wolfeking

How does the response time really matter that much? 5ms is far faster than people can see anyway. My monitor is 5ms I assume and I have never had issues gaming on it (that were not directly caused by IGP graphics).


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> How does the response time really matter that much? 5ms is far faster than people can see anyway. My monitor is 5ms I assume and I have never had issues gaming on it (that were not directly caused by IGP graphics).



I have ASUS 23 inch with 1080p and 5 ms.  It is great for movie and gaming.  response time help to keep from ghost or blur.


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> How does the response time really matter that much? 5ms is far faster than people can see anyway. My monitor is 5ms I assume and I have never had issues gaming on it (that were not directly caused by IGP graphics).



I don't know but I always thought the lower the better. 

Both of those monitors are good.


----------



## Jamebonds1

spirit said:


> I don't know but I always thought the lower the better.
> 
> Both of those monitors are good.



The highest ms the more hard it get, but there will have a lot of ghost.  So 5 or less is better to avoid a ghost or blur.


----------



## wolfeking

I have a 32" TV and Xbox for movies.  Gaming is pretty much all I am doing on the desktop at this point. Well all that would bother a monitor.   I want to stay in the 21" range. Ideally 19" or smaller, but there are no 1080p/1200p screens in that range at all. Which sucks because the image quality goes down as the screen gets bigger. (in terms of DPI). 

Even the smallest 1080p desktop screens are still going to be larger DPI than I am used to (120DPI on 1440*900 laptop vs 102DPI on 21.5" 1080p desktop).  Meaning I will see a difference and be displeased at it.    but it should not be that bad really.


----------



## spirit

The Dell you were looking at is 21.5" and 1080p. 

I'd go for that.


----------



## wolfeking

That is probably what I will go for.  Probably going for the e series as it is the same thing I have, just higher resolution.  Might go for the cheap one, not sure yet.


----------



## spirit

OK.

I would recommend Iiyama's monitors but for whatever reason they seem to be very expensive in the States. My monitor is an Iiyama and it's great.


----------



## wolfeking

the only ones I am seeing from them on ebay (newegg did not have any) are 40" displays.      Don't really want to have to sit 6 feet away just to use my computer. lol. 

I think I will stick with dell. They are good with monitors, and laptops. Very good with both.


----------



## spirit

Dell's monitors are meant to be very good. 

42" isn't really ideal.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, I will stick with Dell on the monitor.


----------



## Jamebonds1

spirit said:


> Dell's monitors are meant to be very good.
> 
> 42" isn't really ideal.



Unless you want 600 Hz with 55" TV


----------



## spirit

Jamebonds1 said:


> Unless you want 600 Hz with 55" TV



...which Wolfe doesn't.


----------



## Jamebonds1

spirit said:


> ...which Wolfe doesn't.



You know I'm just tease


----------



## wolfeking

okay, 360 to a different spec sheet I think. Simply because I am sick and tired of the extreme 4 just refusing to do what I ask it to. It is throwing a 9A debug (usb initialization is started (strait from the manual) with any OC that is equal to 4.9GHz at all. Tried with 106*47 and 100*49 and every voltage from 1.330V (48 hour stable at 4.2GHz) to 1.550V and always get the same debug error.  So I am calling it quits. This board is junk, and is not going to do what I need it to. 

Boards good enough to replace it are all extended ATX or XL-ATX, so a case is in order, which sucks donkey. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146089

and 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128552 
or 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188082 

I prefer the EVGA board for its P67 chipset. But I am 90% sure that the Z77 sniper 3 will have a complete better feature set. It does come with wireless and a bloody good sound system installed by default.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> okay, 360 to a different spec sheet I think. Simply because I am sick and tired of the extreme 4 just refusing to do what I ask it to. It is throwing a 9A debug (usb initialization is started (strait from the manual) with any OC that is equal to 4.9GHz at all. Tried with 106*47 and 100*49 and every voltage from 1.330V (48 hour stable at 4.2GHz) to 1.550V and always get the same debug error.  So I am calling it quits. This board is junk, and is not going to do what I need it to.
> 
> Boards good enough to replace it are all extended ATX or XL-ATX, so a case is in order, which sucks donkey.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146089
> 
> and
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128552
> or
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188082
> 
> I prefer the EVGA board for its P67 chipset. But I am 90% sure that the Z77 sniper 3 will have a complete better feature set. It does come with wireless and a bloody good sound system installed by default.



If you're plan to overclocking, I would go for Sniper.  Sniper have dual bios with two different mode on back panel, normal and overclock mode.  Plus it is less heat chip and is high price.  Overclock video card is stable with SATA power overclock.  If you want keep wire more clean, i would go for EVGA.


----------



## wolfeking

The whole dual BIOS thing is nice, but I won't be using it. Once I dial in my BIOS, there will be no changes to it what so ever except to activate RAID soon. 
You also seem to forget that, while it looks cool, and runs cooler by maybe 5*, Z77 is a half function chipset unless you have a ivybridge CPU, which I don't. So if I get the Gigabyte, which looks better, and seems to be better equipped, I won't get Native USB3, PCIe 3 and I suspect the Z77 SATA3 (that is the only thing that explains why mine are not working besides a board failure).   

I am not sure. I will wait for jason to chime in before I make my final call. Unless he can find something that overclocks better or equal to these in ATX so I don't need a case too.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> The whole dual BIOS thing is nice, but I won't be using it. Once I dial in my BIOS, there will be no changes to it what so ever except to activate RAID soon.
> You also seem to forget that, while it looks cool, and runs cooler by maybe 5*, Z77 is a half function chipset unless you have a ivybridge CPU, which I don't. So if I get the Gigabyte, which looks better, and seems to be better equipped, I won't get Native USB3, PCIe 3 and I suspect the Z77 SATA3 (that is the only thing that explains why mine are not working besides a board failure).
> 
> I am not sure. I will wait for jason to chime in before I make my final call. Unless he can find something that overclocks better or equal to these in ATX so I don't need a case too.



Yeah.  It is better to wait for Jason to give feedback since, he know many motherboard than I'm.  Problem with SATA3 on your ASROCK you mean?  

Also If you're not need new case.  I know it is Z77 but I know good overclock motherboard GA-Z77X-UD3H or UD5H.  Sniper would be useless unless you have ivy.  UD3H is good choose if can't afford new IVY CPU.  The only thing Ivy is requirement are DX11 for Lucix and PCIe 3.0.


----------



## wolfeking

Yes. On the intel SATA3 ports I max out at 250MB/s (pretty much sata 2). The marvel controller I do much better with. 
The below shot is with the marvel controller. I will reset to stock and take a shot with the intel controller for comparison.


----------



## jonnyp11

if you sold them together on ebay or something you could probs get around 300 for your current cpu/mobo and upgrade to a 3770k and sniper z77.


----------



## wolfeking

why would I do that? 5% better performance?  And get maybe 200 for it after the fees and shipping? My CPU is a good performer as is. The board is holding it back. I prefer not to make a miniscule jump up just to get USB3 and PCIe 3. I don't need the latter, and I don't have a USB3 device to use with the first. I am worried about SATA3 though.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> Yes. On the intel SATA3 ports I max out at 250MB/s (pretty much sata 2). The marvel controller I do much better with.
> The below shot is with the marvel controller. I will reset to stock and take a shot with the intel controller for comparison.



Yeah. I know about intel chipset for LGA 1155.  I had read report issue and news about LGA 1155 serial two years ago.  Some SATA 3 is control by intel chipset.


----------



## wolfeking

The intel chipset is fine. The issue is that mine is not running at sata 3 speeds.  The chipset issue was fixed with the B3 revision anyway. 

I am still trying to figure out what is up. I have ran AS SSD 3 times now on my SSD on the intel set and it is saying I am getting 44MB writes and 3846MB reads.    I think it is time for ATTO.


----------



## wolfeking

I give up. Seriously. The intel controller seems to be killing writes and  artificially inflating the reads beyond SATA 3 capability. 





edit: BTW this is 3rd boot and 8th run on both test.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> The intel chipset is fine. The issue is that mine is not running at sata 3 speeds.  The chipset issue was fixed with the B3 revision anyway.
> 
> I am still trying to figure out what is up. I have ran AS SSD 3 times now on my SSD on the intel set and it is saying I am getting 44MB writes and 3846MB reads.    I think it is time for ATTO.



What does ATTO mean?


----------



## wolfeking

it is a benchmark. http://www.attotech.com/products/product.php?sku=Disk_Benchmark 

Either way, neither is saying what the drive is actually doing. I have a feeling it is something screwy with either the chipset, or the SATA Bus. I will trouble shoot more later.


----------



## spirit

jonnyp11 said:


> if you sold them together on ebay or something you could probs get around 300 for your current cpu/mobo and upgrade to a 3770k and sniper z77.



That would be a pointless CPU upgrade. Besides PCI Express 3.0 and a smaller process, there is very little difference at all between a 2600K and a 3770K. May as well keep the 3770K.

I agree with Wolfe's comments about how P67 would be better for the 2600K because you won't be getting the full potential out of the Z77 board with a 2600K, so I'd say go for the EVGA. The GB does have great onboard sound, but really onboard sound these days is pretty good. 

I know you don't like cases with side windows, I found a nice case from Fractal which should support either one of those boards (the GB and the EVGA, they're E-ATX boards right?) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352017 has no side window either so maybe better for you? Not sure. Case is a personal choice but that's one which I suggest.


----------



## wolfeking

I think jonny was mainly saying if I wanted to go for the sniper3 that it would be better to upgrade to a 3770k to match it.  But I really don't want to go with ebay again. I ended up only about $40 to the good when I sold one of my trumpets due to the shipping cost (stupid enough to offer free shipping) and fees.   Not going through it again. 

P67 would be better chip for the board, but with the board overall, is the EVGA a good enough board to keep up with the gigabyte?  Basically I am looking for a 790i in P67/z68/z77 form, if that makes sense. I want a really good board. Not the extreme 4 that is "good" for its price point, but one that is bloody brilliant bar nothing. 

I like that case. The only thing that worries me is that its cable management does not see to be as robust as the switch. However, I do have a drill and plan on getting a dremel router, so if it is not robust enough, then I will be able to make it robust enough. 

Is the cooling good in that case? I know I have probably ask before. We had it narrowed once before down to the switch or the XL, and it became a toss up between cables and the window. 
One thing that you won't know, but I wonder if by "steel" newegg means cold rolled welded steel, or the hot rolled, stamped steel?  Won't matter either way, just kind of a question I ask. Sort of when I get a trumpet, I ask for a print out of the alloys cast in it. Love seeing the high copper single piece bells, and to some extent the machine steel bells from 41-45.   Sorry, im diverging here. The XL will be a great case assuming the cooling is good.


----------



## spirit

The EVGA should probably be a good board for overclocking, EVGA only tend to make high-end boards anyway. We'll have to look it up and see how people have been doing with overclocking on it.

The Define XL's cable management is pretty good, you should be fine with it, you may not even need to modify it in order to get what you want. The cooling should also be good. I know that G80FTW has one of those cases so he'd be the guy to speak to if you want a user's opinion on that case.

The alternative is the NZXT Phantom which has great cable management and cooling but I know you're not a fan of the looks of it.


----------



## wolfeking

the switch 810 has better cable management from the looks of it. Appears to have grommets under the motherboard at least, which would make the front panel connectors, as well as probably sata cable routing easier. Though I would have to sit down with a p67 FTW and both cases to make a final call I could live with. 

I will ask around elsewhere to some people that spend their lives overclocking to find out if it is a great board, or if the gigabyte is better.


----------



## spirit

Have you looked into any of Corsair's cases too?


----------



## wolfeking

I looked at the olive drab one, which I think is a corsair. I liked it, but I don't remember why I decided not to get it. Might have been lack of XL/e ATX.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, looking at some things now.  Plans are currently to sell the 2600k and H61DE/S3 for $220 plus shipping. That should not be too bad. Looking to replace it with LGA1156 or LGA1366, not sure which yet. 

Buying the laptop parts soon, maybe within the hour. But I am not 100% on 9 cell or 12 cell yet. Just thinking it out right now. 

May trade up +140 to the 580, but I am not sure I will have enough, or that the change will be worth it.


----------



## spirit

I would say go with 1366 and get an i7 9xx.

9 cells should be enough.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, I bought a 12 cell battery, and by the end of the week plan on putting the SSD back into it. I was stupid and bought useless things like a tool box and a radio/cd/turntable/tape deck  so I did not get anything for the desktop yet. 

What I am going to ask for is simple, and most people do the same basic thing.  Budget is 810. Need a CPU, Graphics card, motherboard, and anything else that you think might be good. What do you recommend? And it needs to support IDE and floppy, and I prefer PS/2 ports, but that is not a deal breaker.  Thinking a 670 or 7970, yes?


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> okay, I bought a 12 cell battery, and by the end of the week plan on putting the SSD back into it. I was stupid and bought useless things like a tool box and a radio/cd/turntable/tape deck  so I did not get anything for the desktop yet.
> 
> What I am going to ask for is simple, and most people do the same basic thing.  Budget is 810. Need a CPU, Graphics card, motherboard, and anything else that you think might be good. What do you recommend? And it needs to support IDE and floppy, and I prefer PS/2 ports, but that is not a deal breaker.  Thinking a 670 or 7970, yes?



I have one question.  Would USB to IDE and USB floppy work?


----------



## spirit

wolfeking said:


> What I am going to ask for is simple, and most people do the same basic thing.  Budget is 810. Need a CPU, Graphics card, motherboard, and anything else that you think might be good. What do you recommend? And it needs to support IDE and floppy, and I prefer PS/2 ports, but that is not a deal breaker.  Thinking a 670 or 7970, yes?


Going by the fact you want IDE and floppy, I'm guessing you want older parts. The P6T Deluxe V2 you told me about the other day still looks good to me, pair it with a 1366 CPU and 6GB or 12GB of DDR3 (3x2 or 3x4) and you should be good. I'm not sure if there any Z68 or Z77 boards with both IDE and floppy support. 

Graphics card wise, in most cases the 7970 is faster than the 670. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/508?vs=598


----------



## wolfeking

Jamebonds1 said:


> I have one question.  Would USB to IDE and USB floppy work?


IDE needs to be internal. Expansion card is fine.   
Floppy can be externnal. I do not care how the floppy drives attach at this point. But all you are asking for it to keep me on the current gen processors. 



spirit said:


> Going by the fact you want IDE and floppy, I'm guessing you want older parts. The P6T Deluxe V2 you told me about the other day still looks good to me, pair it with a 1366 CPU and 6GB or 12GB of DDR3 (3x2 or 3x4) and you should be good. I'm not sure if there any Z68 or Z77 boards with both IDE and floppy support.
> 
> Graphics card wise, in most cases the 7970 is faster than the 670. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/508?vs=598


I know they are faster. But they are AMD. With a slight OC, they can tie a 680, yes? 

I am not completely sure what I will do yet.


----------



## wolfeking

actually edit to that. Think I will go with this even though it is going to bottleneck the graphics and not be a performer at all. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157266
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103961
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161399

and a floppy drive. 

This way I don't need new memory, or a new heatsink, or a better power supply. It will just work and play games, all be it not as well as an intel.


----------



## spirit

^ No comment. :/

Usually overclocked 7970s are faster than stock 680s. IIRC, the performance difference between the two at stock is pretty close too.


----------



## wolfeking

okay, well a 7970 it is then, since they are going for 670 prices with 680 power. 

does that CPU and board look okay?


----------



## spirit

As you know I'm not a fan of the FX line, but if all you're going to be doing is gaming then it will work fine.


----------



## wolfeking

Well I am not a fan of it either. But it is cheap and can game maybe.  But I am also worried about it bottlenecking the graphics.  It takes serious processor power to handle these top end cards.  My 480 expands the FPS up to about 4.8GHz or so. I would rekon a 7970 would scale even better being that it is 200+% as powerful.


----------



## Jamebonds1

I'm not really fan of fx amd too, but it is cheap and good for gaming.  ide onboard motherboard is rare so ide pci or pci express is better way and good for bootup hard drive. startech have good addon card.  they should have a ide pci and floppy.  it can be found via amazon.


----------



## spirit

Jamebonds1 said:


> ide onboard motherboard is rare so ide pci or pci express is better way and good for bootup hard drive. startech have good addon card.  they should have a ide pci and floppy.  it can be found via amazon.



I also wouldn't really recommend those PCI SATA and IDE cards. My experience with them hasn't been positive. Installed one, plugged in a SATA HDD, Windows wouldn't boot at all. Even when I unplugged the HDD from the card and plugged it into the board, it still wouldn't boot unless I removed the card.

Admittedly it wasn't a StarTech card and I think they are meant to be better, but I still wouldn't get one unless I absolutely had to.


----------



## FuryRosewood

still curious why the need for IDE, not quite understanding. i moved away from it because even with my work machines we are getting away from interfaces such as PS2 on most of our 5150s and e521s and its kinda annoying to dig up a keyboard for those as we have ran out of USB keyboards and mice


----------



## wolfeking

Mianly because I am still trying to backup data that I had on IDE drives, and I personally do not want to get a USB adapter. 

PS/2 is because I want to use a OS that does not have USB drivers currently. If you think it is annoying, then that is fine. It is not your computer, It is mine. I will require what I do to get it working. If I wanted to go half ass at it, I would keep my 2600k and get a new Z77  motherboard and fail again.


----------



## FuryRosewood

I stuffed my IDE drives into external enclosures, made them more useful that way, even if you dont want to, id say look at that possibility, because its putting you in a corner with motherboard selection.


----------



## wolfeking

It is not a corner. Any board that does not have that port just needs a PCI or PCIe with adapter to PCI and I can easily get into the drive with a adapter card.


----------



## WeatherMan

How the hell does this thread have 18,000+ views!


----------



## jonnyp11

people googling the title of it i guess


----------



## wolfeking

Bootup05 said:


> How the hell does this thread have 18,000+ views!


does it matter. Only 3 of the people even attempt to help most of the time. 


I think the plan of action for now is to just not worry about it at all and let it be the way it is.


----------



## FuryRosewood

wolfeking said:


> It is not a corner. Any board that does not have that port just needs a PCI or PCIe with adapter to PCI and I can easily get into the drive with a adapter card.



IDE adapter cards have not worked well enough to bother with them. Usually the board will take em, but requires a updated bios or something, and by the time ive added the driver the motherboard would not boot anymore. I prefer the flexibility of usb with a external enclosure.


----------



## wolfeking

Well I do not prefer to use USB as it is not the most reliable interface out there. I have had far too many issues with USB ports in the past to trust them.


----------



## jonnyp11

wolfeking said:


> Well I do not prefer to use USB as it is not the most reliable interface out there. I have had far too many issues with USB ports in the past to trust them.



then get an e-sata one


----------



## wolfeking

makes a bundle of sense jonny. Get a eSATA case for a IDE drive. I don't think such a thing exists.


----------



## Jamebonds1

Might I recommend this one, wolfeking.  http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-ADA50...F8&qid=1349663836&sr=8-3&keywords=SATA+to+IDE I have it for my old IDE hard drive (glass-base) to SATA port on-board.  It is really good.  It can work via IDE mode or AHCI mode (Not recommend to use AHCI mode, might fail to write or read IDE hard drive.  Also Rapid Storage would caught false positive.)



spirit said:


> I also wouldn't really recommend those PCI SATA and IDE cards. My experience with them hasn't been positive. Installed one, plugged in a SATA HDD, Windows wouldn't boot at all. Even when I unplugged the HDD from the card and plugged it into the board, it still wouldn't boot unless I removed the card.
> 
> Admittedly it wasn't a StarTech card and I think they are meant to be better, but I still wouldn't get one unless I absolutely had to.



Yeah.  Not all PCI card are good unless you want expensive PCI card which is mostly stable.


----------



## wolfeking

Just forget about the IDE for now. I will find something that goes IDE to Serial or Parallel port and use that. That way I can just transfer it to the 1tb jumpdrive (well its a HDD, but I have it in the mediabay of the laptop and it can easily be hot transferred to any ACHI based SATA machine.) 

Thinking it over more. Still not knowing what I will do. Might sell the 2600k and grab a 3770k and keep that. Might just back out of the sale since everyone keeps telling me elsewhere that I am stupid for not using sandy anyway currently. and that it would be pointless to go to 1366, even though it is a superior system for my needs.  Not sure.  

I guess what I am looking at on one side is a motherboard, and a graphics card. That will be fine enough. budget 630. 
I am thinking currently of going for: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIGABYTE-GA...988967149?pt=Motherboards&hash=item416c3f60ed (looks good enough to me. Gigabyte. ATX (keep my case for now). 2133 memory support (because that is totally not important lol). 4 x8 slots for graphics, supporting dual x16 on two of the slots. still has a PCI port if need be. P67, so plays all nice with sandy bridge) 
There is the UP7 for ivy should I go that way. Same basic board though, just Z77. 
If going UP7 I will do some 16GB DDR3-2400 or bigger memory.  The P67-UD7 will go with http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104288


Graphics I am somewhere between a HD7870, HD7950, HD7970, and GTX 660ti/670.  Not sure what the hell I want in graphics as long as it will play nice with every video game made for windows and will continue to do so in SLI/CFx for 5+ years into the future. Keep in mind that Haswell is out early next year, and I might jump on that too, or wait for broadwell before I upgrade. Should put me in the area of about a Q9*** comparatively by then (4 generations back). But graphics should only be on the HD8000 and GTX700 by then, yes?


----------



## spirit

Save your money and keep the 2600K and go for the P67.

If you want the fastest out of those cards you mentioned it's the 7970, unless you decide on a 680.


----------



## wolfeking

I am going over it 1000 times in my mind before I decide on anything. I am really trying to justify a 7000/600 graphics card for my needs.  Especially since there are rumbleings of the GTX700 (GK110) and HD8000 early next year. But I am not sure if that is true at this point. 

Might grab a HD7850 for now and go for a 780 if the rumbles are true.


----------



## spirit

I see what you're doing. I suppose if new stuff is coming out next year (haven't looked myself) then it'd be wise to get one of the new cards.


----------



## wolfeking

I am going off an article at OCN, and their source is http://videocardz.com/34653/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-will-utilize-gk110-gpu.


----------



## spirit

I can't keep up with technology these days...  My 5870 is getting older and more outdated by the second.


----------



## Jamebonds1

spirit said:


> I can't keep up with technology these days...  My 5870 is getting older and more outdated by the second.



5870 isn't that bad   Some old video card can be good.


----------



## wolfeking

I would still take a 5870 over a GT610. And would always take fermi over kepler at the moment.


----------



## spirit

Jamebonds1 said:


> 5870 isn't that bad   Some old video card can be good.


True, but it can't be denied that even the mid range 7850 beats my old 5870. Ah well, times have changed. I'll hang onto it for as long as possible, don't have the money to upgrade now. 



wolfeking said:


> I would still take a 5870 over a GT610.


I think most people would!


----------



## wolfeking

7850 beats a 480 at stock. But roles reverse when you add 100MHz core and 500MHz memory.     I really miss my 480 now.


----------



## wolfeking

Okay, so 2 week checkin, and heres hoping.  Currently hoping to salvage the Z77 extreme4 (again) with a replacement BIOS chip (because Duke can't seem to do it's job when I am doing something sensitive to power failure). Got 3 on order (well shipped) from Ebay, and one from ASrock (because apparently expressing dislike of their extreme lack of care on anything gets your ticket thrown up to a supervisor who then sends you your part for just shipping ($1)). So should be good at least 1:4 there, hopefully more. 
Anyway, so holding that board for Haswell, and focusing on other cross upgradable components (basically things that will work no matter what the board is, like sound, graphics, RAM, and the like). 

Currently focusing more on Sound than anything (because I am getting tired of audible interference on my good headphones on the integrated Audio).  And of coarse pairing it with an okay set of speakers, unless it would be better to wait a bit and pair it with 100% phenomenal speakers. 

Looking at these (in order of preferred to not preferred) and with reasons
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271007 
- Looks really professional and subdued. Comes from a higher end brand (from the very little bit of research I have done), and is PCI, meaning I could toss it in any computer made in the last 15+ years just fine and get great audio from it. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132007&name=Sound-Cards 
-Asus. Cheaper. PCI. no other reason really. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102041&name=Sound-Cards 
-Creative is a brand I have heard a lot about, but don't really find attractive visually. And it is PCIe, which limits the ability to move it around to an older system (unless they make a PCI to PCIe bridge (i know they have one the other way round, but not sure on this one)). 

Speakers: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121044
-Like the price. Assuming quality is there, maybe it is not. But either way, should work in the mean time. 

Other parts: 
looking at graphics, seems like the 7870GHz/7950 is where it is, but to get either will take some fiddleing with the budget. Budget is $521.31 with a $75 wiggle room overhead.  

So, what do y'all think?  Heading in the right direction?


okay, some more figuring makes it possible to fit a 7970 into the system. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150596&name=Desktop-Graphics-Cards

which leaves 112.39 in the budget.   But would that be worth it to ditch the sound upgrades and get that?


----------



## spirit

Not sure about the sound stuff because I'm not an expert on that, but the 7970 looks pretty good.


----------



## wolfeking

I don't know much about it either.  But one thing I did notice after looking closer at it, is that there is very little room for a sound card when keeping CF/SLI as an option. There will only be one PCI and 1 PCIe x1 slot open for use, and the PCI slot will make it very tight with the video cards (as it only has one slot space between the 2 cards in CF/SLI. 

I guess there is going to be yet another point again where I will just have to jump on a path and stick to it.  Thinking the GPU, but maybe sound. it will be one or the other.


----------



## spirit

I'd go with what matters most to you. I've never been fussed about sound and with on-board sound and a pair of £30 speakers, it sounds fine to me. I think you only need to worry about sound really if you're going to be editing it.


----------



## wolfeking

I am not at all happy with the integrated sound on the motherboard. I am getting interferrence with my headphones, and I have already ruled out them as a source by installing a Ferrite Choke on it. It is coming from the source (integrated chip). I am reasonably certain that it would go down, or maybe disappear if I could insulate the case better against RFI, but that would be more expensive that just buying a good card that is already shielded against it. 

Graphics will do what I want at any price point at a 7850 or above.  Just want something that will play newer games just fine. Really should not have sold my 480 and it would not be a problem, but oh well. 

Either will do. Probably will get neither based on the past few times.


----------



## wolfeking

new idea. Going to get a motherboard that will actually be worth overclocking on. I have done an ungodly amount of research into this, and I want it. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128569 

and plan is to sell the extreme 4 on ebay to cover a cooling upgrade too. 32 phase power should be fine, but will I need a new supply to put power to 2 EPS plugs? Or will the p4 adapter and EPS adapter work fine till I get a better supply? 

and getting a HD6870 to play for a bit until I can get a HD7*** or GTX6** to overwhelm the graphics department. 

Should fit fine in my case from research too. only .775 inches difference in width, and the case has a good 2" clearance, and all standoff holes are the same between it and ATX.


----------



## Darren

wolfeking said:


> new idea. Going to get a motherboard that will actually be worth overclocking on. I have done an ungodly amount of research into this, and I want it.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128569
> 
> and plan is to sell the extreme 4 on ebay to cover a cooling upgrade too. 32 phase power should be fine, but will I need a new supply to put power to 2 EPS plugs? Or will the p4 adapter and EPS adapter work fine till I get a better supply?
> 
> and getting a HD6870 to play for a bit until I can get a HD7*** or GTX6** to overwhelm the graphics department.
> 
> Should fit fine in my case from research too. only .775 inches difference in width, and the case has a good 2" clearance, and all standoff holes are the same between it and ATX.



400 dollars for a Halloween motherboard? Are you going to use everything that has? Seems like a HUGE price for a motherboard. 

However it does look awesome.


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## wolfeking

General consensus is that it is bar none the best overclocking motherboard invented. Has the best power setup on the market (this thing can handle 2000 watts and 166 amps just on the processor), and has manual overclocking and voltage monitoring points by default.  Only thing it does not have that I want is a kick arse audio setup, but I am going to wait for christmas to get something better there. 

Edit: By manual OC, I mean literally it has OC switches that can be adjusted while in OS. 

And frankly, $150 of the price is in the power layout alone. It is worth it. 

I do not like the looks of it at all. I would prefer an all black with chrome heatsinks, but that is not a look anyone is building.      But I am fairly certain I will make good use of this board. Seeing as I can do 4.8GHz with the rather loose (compairitively) voltage control on the Extreme 4, I am hoping to get 5GHz+ on this board (seeing as the board is the holdup from what I have been experiencing).  

And as for the price, You have to pay for the best.  After all, you would not put a $15,000 975HP 454 in front of a stock TH400, now would you?  Plus it is one of the few that can do 4 way SLI/CF on LGA1155.


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## Darren

wolfeking said:


> General consensus is that it is bar none the best overclocking motherboard invented. Has the best power setup on the market (this thing can handle 2000 watts and 166 amps just on the processor), and has manual overclocking and voltage monitoring points by default.  Only thing it does not have that I want is a kick arse audio setup, but I am going to wait for christmas to get something better there.
> 
> Edit: By manual OC, I mean literally it has OC switches that can be adjusted while in OS.
> 
> And frankly, $150 of the price is in the power layout alone. It is worth it.
> 
> I do not like the looks of it at all. I would prefer an all black with chrome heatsinks, but that is not a look anyone is building.      But I am fairly certain I will make good use of this board. Seeing as I can do 4.8GHz with the rather loose (compairitively) voltage control on the Extreme 4, I am hoping to get 5GHz+ on this board (seeing as the board is the holdup from what I have been experiencing).
> 
> And as for the price, You have to pay for the best.  After all, you would not put a $15,000 975HP 454 in front of a stock TH400, now would you?  Plus it is one of the few that can do 4 way SLI/CF on LGA1155.




I guess if you're doing crazy Overclocking you might get your worth out of it. I don't fully understand the motives behind Overclocking. Just to see what you can get and thrill of pushing something that much further? Sure it makes sense for performance gains. To a point. But beyond that it's just a number.


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## wolfeking

I just want the highest stable OC I can get, because it means I can do more with BIONIC (why don't CF have a BIONIC team?) and can get way more points on FAH with it. Plus the cpu is weak to start with (in my eyes). But this is a conversation that always ends with "there is no competition and that is why" (competition as in matched performance).     
Let's just say I want a great board that can OC like no tomorrow and hold off for broadwell (the tick of haswell) with 4 way CF/SLI as an option (again, more points, means ownage in a different kind of way).


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## jonnyp11

wolfeking said:


> I just want the highest stable OC I can get, because it means I can do more with BIONIC (why don't CF have a BIONIC team?) and can get way more points on FAH with it. Plus the cpu is weak to start with (in my eyes). But this is a conversation that always ends with "there is no competition and that is why" (competition as in matched performance).
> Let's just say I want a great board that can OC like no tomorrow and hold off for broadwell (the tick of haswell) with 4 way CF/SLI as an option (again, more points, means ownage in a different kind of way).



for that price it seems like you'd get more out of pne of these with a 3930k

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...28-532^13-128-532-TS,13-128-562^13-128-562-TS

or (v actually only would be 3-way usable with dual slot cards)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188122&name=Intel-Motherboards


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## wolfeking

I would get more out of a 3930k, but you also have to notice the budget. $500ish (too lazy to go searching for my ledger right now.)  Meaning I could get one CPU maybe and still be a month without a board, and would have to invest in a far better cooler (probably custom water) to get a 5GHz OC on that.   My 2600k will do 66% of a 3930k @ the same speeds, and I only need a better board to do it. 

Second the only one of those board that remotely come close to the UP7 is the X79 FTW, and that is a maybe (have not researched the phase layout yet).  I would be willing to bet that Gigabyte has nothing to match it on the X79 platform, and if they did, it would be nearing $500 for the board, and for the chip, so $1000, versus $400.  

From a budget standpoint, I will stay with 2600k.


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## jonnyp11

sell the current setup to knock off 250 then only go to 4GHz and you'll end up with better performance by a bit and no need for more.


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## wolfeking

I am going to assume you just don't understand overclocking and leave it at that.  
And $250, you are dreaming. Plus still can't get 8GB more a brilliant motherboard and a 3930k for 750 ish.


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## jonnyp11

wolfeking said:


> I am going to assume you just don't understand overclocking and leave it at that.
> And $250, you are dreaming. Plus still can't get 8GB more a brilliant motherboard and a 3930k for 750 ish.



processor alone sells for over 200

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-...sor-/140869028258?pt=CPUs&hash=item20cc72c9a2

pre-installed can get a bit more and if they want you could pre-overclock for a few bucks and tell them the exact settings just in case


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## wolfeking

You are still forgetting ebay fees, paypal fees, and shipping. At $200, you are lucky to come out with $180.    And still assuming it would sell, and that it would still not cover a platform sidegrade.  just put it like this, 4GHz on 12 threads is not going to be massively better than 8 threads @ 5GHz.  Even if they match each other, would you pay $300 to add a dual core into the mix? Could essentially double (more or less) performance with a new 2600k and a board to match it for less than the 2011 sockets. 

I am not playing the ebay game again at this point.  Selling there, at least in my past 2 experiences (of 3 total) end up sucking your funds dry. I essentially gave away a 480 by selling it on ebay (because the shipping quote was for the wrong box, so out $3.50, and they took $25 in fees right off the top.  selling at 130 I got just at 105 back. )  It is not happening again.  When parts are no longer being used, they a=will be tossed in the garbage.


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## jonnyp11

wolfeking said:


> You are still forgetting ebay fees, paypal fees, and shipping. At $200, you are lucky to come out with $180.    And still assuming it would sell, and that it would still not cover a platform sidegrade.  just put it like this, 4GHz on 12 threads is not going to be massively better than 8 threads @ 5GHz.  Even if they match each other, would you pay $300 to add a dual core into the mix? Could essentially double (more or less) performance with a new 2600k and a board to match it for less than the 2011 sockets.
> 
> I am not playing the ebay game again at this point.  Selling there, at least in my past 2 experiences (of 3 total) end up sucking your funds dry. I essentially gave away a 480 by selling it on ebay (because the shipping quote was for the wrong box, so out $3.50, and they took $25 in fees right off the top.  selling at 130 I got just at 105 back. )  It is not happening again.  When parts are no longer being used, they a=will be tossed in the garbage.



...or listed on here/craigslist, or just give to my, i'd pay the shipping of course 

(although craigs gets you spammed by tons of dating sites where people say you sound hot and should sign up for free to talk to them safely)

and yeah, does sort'a suck how much they want


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## wolfeking

Craigslist means spam. 

I am staying on LGA1155 either way. The cost to performance is not there for X79.


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## spirit

Yeah the UP7 is an awesome board and OCs like a freaking tank, I think you should go for it. What sort of cooling will you be using with your 2600K?

IMO, Socket 2011 isn't worth it. A 3770K is pretty much all that anybody needs, especially once overclocked.


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## Jamebonds1

I have like to share my opinion.  Going from LGA 1155 to LGA 2011 isn't really worth it.  LGA 1155 is pretty good enough for gaming and designer.  Going to LGA 2011 would be waste of money since non-K for LGA 2011 is 300 dollar and K cost 600 dollar.  Someone might say 3820 i7 is part unlock, but i wouldn't agree with those people and is not good overclock as 3770K.  

Would Sniper 3 motherboard work for you?  If you're not like green.  UP7 would be good for you.  I wouldn't recommend EVGA Z77 FTW since it is 3 out of 5 star.  

ASUS and ASRock have a lot of motherboard that support 4 SLI/CF but I'm not sure if you're still trust those both brand.  Just saying.

EDIT: I too agree with Spirit about LGA 2011 opinion.


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## wolfeking

I am starting with the 212 evo again (since I don't have anything else other than stock). Once I can get money from the extreme 4, then I will go to something like a Nictua NH-D14 or the phanteks equivalent, or maybe a water cooler. Not sure.  Sould like to set up a DIY water loop for CPU only, but that is not likely (would still be $300 probably). 

LGA2011 is worth it for worstations, but that is about it. Unless you need 12 threads. Then it is okay. But I would keep 2 2600k's over a 3930k for about the same price.


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## spirit

OK that all sounds fine to me. The NH-D14 is meant to be pretty good but in all honesty I don't know a lot about coolers, I just got mine because it was cheap and had good reviews.


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## wolfeking

Jamebonds1 said:


> I have like to share my opinion.  Going from LGA 1155 to LGA 2011 isn't really worth it.  LGA 1155 is pretty good enough for gaming and designer.  Going to LGA 2011 would be waste of money since non-K for LGA 2011 is 300 dollar and K cost 600 dollar.  Someone might say 3820 i7 is part unlock, but i wouldn't agree with those people and is not good overclock as 3770K.
> 
> Would Sniper 3 motherboard work for you?  If you're not like green.  UP7 would be good for you.  I wouldn't recommend EVGA Z77 FTW since it is 3 out of 5 star.
> 
> ASUS and ASRock have a lot of motherboard that support 4 SLI/CF but I'm not sure if you're still trust those both brand.  Just saying.
> 
> EDIT: I too agree with Spirit about LGA 2011 opinion.


1. The sniper is not as good of a board. it is only 12 phase. And no offense, but it is all smoke and mirrors to me at least. It looks good, and has some killer features, but it is not the UD7. The power control is not there. 

2. Reviews are useless.  The FTW is a great board. I would not use it, but it is a very good option. 

3. Asus and ASrock are not an option. I refuse to use them. 

4. SBe has better baseclock overclocking though. It is easy to hit 4.5 to 4.8ish on a 3820. But that is no better than a 2600k, and has very few advantages over it paired with a good board.  I just don't see the point of it without the 6 cores, and the price is not worth it.  If they were 8 cores with HT, I would jump on it in a second, but they are not. The price does not scale well.


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## spirit

I agree with Wolfe, I really don't get the point in the 3820 - especially when a 3770K is faster at stock and is cheaper AND the boards are cheaper.

I like the Z77 FTW. It's a good board and has some really nice features. I especially like the right-angled 24 pin power connector, so much better for cable management!


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## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> I am starting with the 212 evo again (since I don't have anything else other than stock). Once I can get money from the extreme 4, then I will go to something like a Nictua NH-D14 or the phanteks equivalent, or maybe a water cooler. Not sure.  Sould like to set up a DIY water loop for CPU only, but that is not likely (would still be $300 probably).
> 
> LGA2011 is worth it for worstations, but that is about it. Unless you need 12 threads. Then it is okay. But I would keep 2 2600k's over a 3930k for about the same price.





spirit said:


> OK that all sounds fine to me. The NH-D14 is meant to be pretty good but in all honesty I don't know a lot about coolers, I just got mine because it was cheap and had good reviews.



 Noctua is great CPU cooler as i have read about them and it is low temp of CPU.      XIGMATEK and Thermaltake are great CPU cooler.  I have Thermaltake Contac 30, it is good cooler.  MasterCooler are okay but just as I don't like their fan since it is noise.


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## wolfeking

spirit said:


> OK that all sounds fine to me. The NH-D14 is meant to be pretty good but in all honesty I don't know a lot about coolers, I just got mine because it was cheap and had good reviews.


yea, I am basically at this point going off a view of Bigger=Cooler. Simply because it means you have more surface area to dissipate heat from.  

I don't account reviews much on anything anymore. I learned that lesson with the 912 and the 212EVO. Both have thousands of great reviews, yet perform really poorly for me. The case is just not even worth the price, and is not designed well at all. But that is not the issue here at all. That will be fixed later, if ever.


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## spirit

If I read reviews, usually I only read the professional reviews. I got lucky with my cooler. For the price it's good.


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## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> 2. Reviews are useless.  The FTW is a great board. I would not use it, but it is a very good option.



I think your right.  I just look back and read review care.  There is some reviewer that are not VO (Verified Owner).  Sorry, my bad.



wolfeking said:


> yea, I am basically at this point going off a view of Bigger=Cooler. Simply because it means you have more surface area to dissipate heat from.
> 
> I don't account reviews much on anything anymore. I learned that lesson with the 912 and the 212EVO. Both have thousands of great reviews, yet perform really poorly for me. The case is just not even worth the price, and is not designed well at all. But that is not the issue here at all. That will be fixed later, if ever.



 I'm curious. what is perform poorly?  Fan that's too noise?


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## wolfeking

If you look, even the pros say both the 212 and the 912 are great items.    Maybe I just expected more from them at their price points. 

Anyway, so there is not any major issues with dropping my current parts into this board and going forward?  I hope not.  and side note, I'll get back to responding later. Im bout to fall asleep on my computer, which does not help any.


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## spirit

Yeah it must be pretty late (or early) for you!

I don't see any problems. I say go for it.


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## wolfeking

Jamebonds1 said:


> I'm curious. what is perform poorly?  Fan that's too noise?


The poor performance (assuming you are talking about the 212EVO) comes from the horrid temps.  Idle, and I kid you not, the stock cooler has lower temps.  Under load (not overclocked) the 212 is only 4-6* cooler.  I expected a lot more from it, especially seeing as it is not even that cheap of a cooler.  It is silent though, but with auto fan settings, so is the whole computer, and that is with 8 fans on it (6 case fans (120), CPU fan, and GPU fan).  under load the little 4870 is a freaking jet engine basically. 

The case performs poorly because it is too expensive, is limited on expansion, has rather short front panel connectors (only really matters if your boards connectors are not right at the bottom, which HD audio on the H61DE/S3 is not). The cable management holes are just poorly placed, and frankly useless. Anything larger than an 8 pin cable and you have to bend the back panel to get it to go back on, and use a hammer to line it up well.  It needs more room to be even acceptable in cable management. And price was its only selling point to me when I got it. Now that is not even a sell because there are much better cases for similar prices. If it would drop down to say round $30, then it could hide behind its price tag again.  


spirit said:


> Yeah it must be pretty late (or early) for you!
> 
> I don't see any problems. I say go for it.


That it was. 0300 I think.  heck, its 0100 right now. 

But anyway. I am cutting it close now. Very close.  But I think I have pinned the beast now. And I liked the review/unboxing/101 that I watched on this unit.  And it looked beast all put together. 

Upgrades list now: 
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...p_and_RX360_Radiator_and_Free_Dead-Water.html
-I am taking a gamble on it. it is a 360 unit, which is going to be a pain to fit to the 912 in any usable manner.  Hoping that I can just bolt it to the top and route the hoses in that through the holes in the back.  If not, then heres to a 240 rad with a 120 rad.  
-Also hoping that it will be good enough to add a GPU to the loop, with another Rad added of coarse. 
-Also hoping it has enough hose to tidy it up a bit.  Might get 20 foot of hose just encase anyway. 

and 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131478&name=Desktop-Graphics-Cards
-is this the reference design? I sure hope so.


----------



## jonnyp11

Why not the sapphire one with the way better (looking) cooler.

And you plannin to put the 212 up here?


----------



## wolfeking

because it is 100% not a reference design. That means fitting a water block to it is a shot in the dark.


----------



## spirit

I'm pretty sure the PowerColor is a reference design.


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## wolfeking

That is what I was hoping. and it is cheap enough too.    I think this is all going to work out nicely.


----------



## wolfeking

1 week, well 4 days (might as well be a week with shipping).  Stuck on a difficult choice because of a board that is just plain useless (shooting a POST error for a connector I don't have, and that this board has no version that does have with this chipset).  Anyway, so go ahead with a 7950 and a water cooler and upgrade board and case later? Or goto a OC board to get my $$ worth out of the CPU, and maybe like a 7870 or 7850 or the like, maybe another used 480?


----------



## wolfeking

Okay, for those of you keeping up. Final plan for tomorrow morning. 

-Z77X-UD3H Motherboard 
-XSPC Rasa 750 RX 360 cooling 
-Hose clamps for kit above 
-Paint thinner (for case) 
-Seafoam Green paint (for case) 
-Pearl white piant (for case)
-matte black paint (case interrior) 
-rivet gun 
-Rivets 
-Rivet removal tool 
-Drimel tool.  (last 4 are to mod the case and paint it proper this time)


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## spirit

You've gone and bought a P8P67 now though haven't you?


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## wolfeking

I committed to buy. Paying for it as soon as the money post to the bank (should be 0400 hours EST). 

I think all I am going to do to the case now though (this month) is install the water cooler. Did not think the rest of it out too much. Well thought it out, but did not price it out with branded parts.    It will get done though.


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## Jamebonds1

Just bit of advice.  There is a lot of issued of old BIOS version on Z77 version as i experienced.  I recommended updating to F18 on your Z77X-UD3H.  I check F18 as stable BIOS.  Had issued with video card and CPU, but after F18 it getting better.


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## wolfeking

Learn to read. I did not get the UD3H. Bad motherboard mascarading as something good.  

Got the P8P67 WS Revolution for $140 shipped. It is a much better board with 3 way SLI while having 16 phase power. Something you have to go to a UD5H to get.


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## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> Learn to read. I did not get the UD3H. Bad motherboard mascarading as something good.
> 
> Got the P8P67 WS Revolution for $140 shipped. It is a much better board with 3 way SLI while having 16 phase power. Something you have to go to a UD5H to get.



Huh? I don't see that UD5H have 3 way SLI it did?  I think video card wouldn't running at PCIe X4.  Plus. I thought i saw you say you getting for UD3H?


----------



## wolfeking

spirit said:


> You've gone and bought a P8P67 now though haven't you?





wolfeking said:


> I committed to buy. Paying for it as soon as the money post to the bank (should be 0400 hours EST).
> 
> I think all I am going to do to the case now though (this month) is install the water cooler. Did not think the rest of it out too much. Well thought it out, but did not price it out with branded parts.    It will get done though.





Jamebonds1 said:


> Huh? I don't see that UD5H have 3 way SLI it did?  I think video card wouldn't running at PCIe X4.  Plus. I thought i saw you say you getting for UD3H?


Read quoted post directly above your post.  

And I don't give a shit about 3 way SLI.  1 card will game just fine until computer gaming ends.   What I was talking about is the 16 phase power, which is better for clocking the processor.


----------



## Jamebonds1

wolfeking said:


> Read quoted post directly above your post.
> 
> And I don't give a shit about 3 way SLI.  1 card will game just fine until computer gaming ends.   What I was talking about is the 16 phase power, which is better for clocking the processor.



ummm... okay.


----------



## wolfeking

Jason thought it would be good to update the thread now. So here is what I am going to get now, and it should be better. Still don't have my case build finished, but that is because I am out of funds and materials. 

So Case parts to finish: 
http://www.moddiy.com/products/Sunbeam-Universal-Molex-Pin-Remover-(Full-Set)-.html#.UKWd0OTWLLs
http://www.imsplus.com/military-fie...34883a8d46b1d54657bcb1a96553d&sl=EN&currency= (x3) 
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...ol-duplicolor_10066313-p?searchTerm=bed+liner 

Computer parts: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131467 Definately 
and depending on what I decide to do, the rest should be 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009442
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812186024 

also thinking of getting a good camera. Depending on that is weather I get the monitor now or not.


----------

