# Tablets, I don't get it?



## DMGrier

So I was looking at the ipad the other day and I have no interest in them but I just don't get what people see in them. I mean I played on it and even the ones running Android 3.0 and well in my opinion they are not that great. They run a Mobile OS which gives me half the functionality of a netbook considering you can run just about any desktop OS on a netbook and your screen is better protected cause you can close the lid when not in use.

I mean fine they are thinner then your average netbook but if I am that concerned with the size and even a netbook was to big I would then remember my Android phone that can do everything those can (for the most part) fits in my pocket. Just can some one help me see why these are so amazing and what I am missing.


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## strollin

I was looking and playing with some tablets the other day and have to agree with you, I don't understand the popularity, especially at the prices that are being charged.  The screens on them are really nice, better than a netbook.  However, IMO, they were awkward to hold due to their size and dimensions, I'd rather use my netbook sitting on a table.

They may be more "mobile" then a netbook but, if I want mobile, I use my Droid X.


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## speedyink

*pets touch screened 9" Asus netbook*


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## Motorcharge

I don't get it either. I can't see a situation where I need something in between my laptop and a smart phone.


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## FXB

I guess it would be good for showing clips on the go to friends over 3G but other then that I agree with every one pricing is too much.  The Asus transformer has more interesting price however (399$).  In any case if I had a tablet I would only use it as a universal remote / keyboard and mouse.  if the software was in place I would control my home theater or use the ipad as a BIG trackpad.


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## Twist86

No clue...I find all of it useless at the end of the day. I will admit though I like the IDEA of those "book tablets". The problem I have with kindles and what have you is they are $150+ and they charge $10+ for a digital book that took 20 cents to upload. For that kind of money its cheaper to buy the book and trade it in. Honestly though to a degree I think people are just sheep by nature anymore. They see a group of "cool people" using them and they buy them too. I myself dislike Apple as with AT&T their service sucks and they over charge for the item + monthly service. My buddy is a Apple fan and he has $300+ bills with them which is INSANE to me.


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## spynoodle

uk80glue said:


> I don't get it either. I can't see a situation where I need something in between my laptop and a smart phone.


Exactly. The majority of tablets are essentially just giant phones with slightly faster processors. There are some exceptions, such as the HP Slate, which runs Windows. I'm personally a fan of the Dell Inspiron Duo, which is half tablet and half netbook. Of course, I don't want one, but I don't understand why you would buy an iPad over a windows-based alternative.

Just as haterz gonna hate, blowhards gonna blow their money on stupid crap.


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## Motorcharge

The only situation I can see where I'd want a tablet is if I could rig the electronics in my home to it. Lights, media center PC, tv, sound system, ect. If I could use it as a total universal remote with access to my computers it would be worth the money.


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## Calibretto

Well, this might answer your questions and it might not, but I wrote this editorial about why I think my iPad is better than my netbook.

http://www.techerator.com/2011/04/why-i-ditched-my-netbook-for-an-ipad/


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## speedyink

This is why I like my netbook over a lightweight tablet:

Compatibility;  all my favorite programs just work, and they work exactly how i remember them.

Expandability;  SD card slot, I can go on a photo shoot, and upload the photos from my canon rebel right then and there, and even edit them in adobe lightroom, all without a single cord.  
USB slots for obvious reasons, transferring files, updating my ipod nano, etc.

Choice;  Currently I have windows 7 and OSX Leopard installed.  If I wanted I can choose a lighter but simpler windows (XP), one of the many linux distros, or even chrome os.

physical keyboard;  Touch keyboards for lack of better word suck.  No physical feedback = terrible accuracy

Storage capacity;  My music folder accounts for more than 64gb of space...not to mention my videos

Games;  Command & conquer, flatout 2, grand theft auto, classic games I know and love run in their full form.

I realize that tablets are slightly more portable and have longer battery lives than most netbooks, but then again, thats what my android phone is for.  
In the end I see them as nothing more than a gimick, which unfortunately goes on my list of do not buys since i bought a house.


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## spynoodle

Calibretto said:


> Well, this might answer your questions and it might not, but I wrote this editorial about why I think my iPad is better than my netbook.
> 
> http://www.techerator.com/2011/04/why-i-ditched-my-netbook-for-an-ipad/


Nice editorial! I see what you mean, although I think you could benefit more from an windows-based tablet. You did mention how your programs loaded faster, and to this I would suggest that you try to install a lightweight linux distro on your netbook (if you decide to get one again). This would probably give you a major improvement.


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## Troncoso

spynoodle said:


> Nice editorial! I see what you mean, although I think you could benefit more from an windows-based tablet. You did mention how your programs loaded faster, and to this I would suggest that you try to install a lightweight linux distro on your netbook (if you decide to get one again). This would probably give you a major improvement.



no offense to linux, but if he does that, he loses support for a lot of programs...here's my take on tablets vs netbooks since I've been around them this past month.

If you want a netbook with as good a processor as the latest tablets are coming out with (the tegra 2 dual core which also has a graphics engine) you'll have to pay just as much as the tablet costs. Almost all low cost netbooks only run the intel atom and a single gig of ram. Seriously, any netbook between $250 and $450 is running the same processor and ram. That's just ridiculous.
For those who think that tablets are basically oversized phones, try one for a week. The large screen really makes all the difference. Oh yeah, you can watch movies and play games on your phone. That's so fun on a 3 inch screen....except it's not. It's also great to be able to read books without either straining your eyes or zooming in to the point where you can only read 5 words before you scroll over.
and I mean, tablets are just way faster. And I'm not just talking spec wise and how fast things load, I'm talking everyday use. everything you want to do on a tablet is just one icon away. no folders, no directories, just tap and go.
Obviously, for the "tech savvy" community, tablets were a dumb idea. Because you can't you can't do everything under the sun on them means they are useless. well, that's not true. yeah, go ahead and edit photos on a netbook, using the 2 inch little trackpad with horrible accuracy. go ahead put a full blown operating system on an atom processor, that won't slow it down. it's all just opinion though. I don't own one myself, but I can easily see where they are more convenient then a netbook.


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## lucasbytegenius

Tablets have their place in the world, just as netbooks do.
I would use a tablet simply because of the touch screen, and I would run Ubuntu 11.04 on it if I could. It's a great experience to interact with the device using your fingers rather than instruments such as that clumsy touch pad they call a mouse. Sure, they're not as good for such games as speedyink plays, but they were originally designed for productivity purposes.
And not all tablets are bulky, the iPad 2 is pretty slim and I've picked up a couple others running Windows and Android and they weren't that hard to hold. And space wise, most tablets can have almost as much space as a netbook, except for the iPad 2.
It all depends on your needs I guess.

And spynoodle, that Duo thingy is going to scrape the keyboard clean of keys if it's closed wrong


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## dark_angel

I use one for my photography. I can take photos, load them up on the ipad, view them in a big size to see if their worth keeping, Do some light editing to see if it helps.
I could take a netbook but i need to open it up, load it up, then transfer photos over, then view them, then turn it off before going on again. Its just faster and more convenient with a tablet.


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## spynoodle

lucasbytegenius said:


> Tablets have their place in the world, just as netbooks do.
> I would use a tablet simply because of the touch screen, and I would run Ubuntu 11.04 on it if I could. It's a great experience to interact with the device using your fingers rather than instruments such as that clumsy touch pad they call a mouse. Sure, they're not as good for such games as speedyink plays, but they were originally designed for productivity purposes.
> And not all tablets are bulky, the iPad 2 is pretty slim and I've picked up a couple others running Windows and Android and they weren't that hard to hold. And space wise, most tablets can have almost as much space as a netbook, except for the iPad 2.
> It all depends on your needs I guess.
> 
> And spynoodle, that Duo thingy is going to scrape the keyboard clean of keys if it's closed wrong


NO IT'S NOT!!!!! AARGHFHFHFFFDFSFSFS *Mouth Foam*


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## crake340

Twist86 said:


> No clue...I find all of it useless at the end of the day. I will admit though I like the IDEA of those "book tablets". The problem I have with kindles and what have you is they are $150+ and they charge $10+ for a digital book that took 20 cents to upload. For that kind of money its cheaper to buy the book and trade it in. Honestly though to a degree I think people are just sheep by nature anymore. They see a group of "cool people" using them and they buy them too. I myself dislike Apple as with AT&T their service sucks and they over charge for the item + monthly service. My buddy is a Apple fan and he has $300+ bills with them which is INSANE to me.



I used to think the same thing about Kindles, but now I totally changed my opinion on them. My parents got me one for christmas, and trust me, if you are a reader they are definitely worth the money. They are a nice mix of technology and old school and nowadays people (including me) will pretty much use anything that has technology tied to it. I find myself reading a whole lot just to get the chance to use the kindle. at my college i've only ever seen two other people using kindles, so i dont think they've reached 'sheep user' status


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## DMGrier

Troncoso said:


> no offense to linux, but if he does that, he loses support for a lot of programs...



For starters there are a lot of Open Source software to easily replace the Windows programs  and in some cases some Open Source software sets the standard for new features for software that will run on Windows programs at a later date.

Netbooks have a full OS, even with the wide apps out there for the mobile OS it is no where near the ability of  netbook. Even the version of software for the mobile os is not as advance as a desktop version of it. Plus if you do your research depending on the model of netbook you could run any OS you want example being where as most netbooks can only run Linux Flavors and Windows the Dell mini 9 I have can run Windows, Linux Flavor of your chioce or OSX.


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## ian

I have an Ipad 1 and the latest macbook pro.
If I had to chose between them, the macbook pro would definitely win.
Tablets offer a different experience for games and they do have their place, I carry mine around with me in my backpack, and use it a fair bit.


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## Nanobyte

DMGrier said:


> So I was looking at the ipad the other day and I have no interest in them but I just don't get what people see in them.....


Given the huge sales of them, about 12 million in the last 6 months, there are a large number of people who do see some value in them.  In the first weekend of iPad2 sales, they sold 500,000.

As a non-user of iPad or netbooks (and the last person in the World who would line up to buy anything), the difference in thickness (about half) is a huge advantage in portability.  Isn't that the primary reason for having an iPad?  A mobile multimedia centre, browser, phone and general gizmo-runner?

I have to have a dig at Linux suggestions - the general public does not care two hoots about Linux.  A non-starter for most iPad purchasers.


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## spynoodle

Nanobyte said:


> Given the huge sales of them, about 12 million in the last 6 months, there are a large number of people who do see some value in them.  In the first weekend of iPad2 sales, they sold 500,000.


^ Now _that_ always sends me on a rant. 

The mere fact that a large percentage of that 500,000 already had iPad 1s..... disgusts me. I mean... really?


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## FXB

lucasbytegenius said:


> And space wise, most tablets can have almost as much space as a netbook, except for the iPad 2.
> It all depends on your needs I guess.



Which tablet has more then 64gb of storage?


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## lucasbytegenius

FXB said:


> Which tablet has more then 64gb of storage?



As I said, they _can_, some of them don't come with it however. I've seen a few tablets that use 2.5" notebook drives, and those could be replaced with a higher capacity drive.


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## FXB

lucasbytegenius said:


> As I said, they _can_, some of them don't come with it however. I've seen a few tablets that use 2.5" notebook drives, and those could be replaced with a higher capacity drive.



which tablets are those?


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## lucasbytegenius

FXB said:


> which tablets are those?



http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/fujitsu-lifebook-t4215-tablet/4505-3121_7-32136365.html?tag=rnav
http://reviews.cnet.com/tablets/gateway-cx2724-tablet-core/4505-3126_7-32064870.html?tag=rnav

Just to name a couple.


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## FXB

lucasbytegenius said:


> http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/fujitsu-lifebook-t4215-tablet/4505-3121_7-32136365.html?tag=rnav
> http://reviews.cnet.com/tablets/gateway-cx2724-tablet-core/4505-3126_7-32064870.html?tag=rnav
> 
> Just to name a couple.



not exactly what I had in mind


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## Lanther

They bought 2Go Pads where I work.  The run Windows 7 have dual core atom processor, 2 gigs of RAM and 250 gig hard drives.  The only problem I've run into with running Windows on the Tablet is that its not really designed for it.  Has some issues with office programs when using the touch screen.


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## speedyink

Troncoso said:


> Oh yeah, you can watch movies and play games on your phone. That's so fun on a 3 inch screen....except it's not.



Maybe for you.  You have your phone everywhere.  What if something unpredictable happened that takes up like a half hour or more.  I sure as well wouldn't pack around a tablet everywhere I go, and if I knew I was going to be waiting for long periods of time, it's super easy to take a netbook



Troncoso said:


> and I mean, tablets are just way faster. And I'm not just talking spec wise and how fast things load, I'm talking everyday use. everything you want to do on a tablet is just one icon away. no folders, no directories, just tap and go.



What stops you from organizing your computer to make it simpler?  Everything on my netbook is one tap away from the desktop.



Troncoso said:


> Obviously, for the "tech savvy" community, tablets were a dumb idea. Because you can't you can't do everything under the sun on them means they are useless. well, that's not true. yeah, go ahead and edit photos on a netbook, using the 2 inch little trackpad with horrible accuracy.



My netbook is touchscreen, makes photo editing easy.  Also, holy crap, usb mouse  for those who don't



Troncoso said:


> go ahead put a full blown operating system on an atom processor, that won't slow it down.



Only for people who also don't know how to keep their full fledge computer clean.  And yes, they do have to have one of those in order to use most the tablets out there (ipads).  Also, as I said before, Linux, windows xp, chromium, all OSes for netbooks that are extremely light.





Lanther said:


> They bought 2Go Pads where I work.  The run Windows 7 have dual core atom processor, 2 gigs of RAM and 250 gig hard drives.  The only problem I've run into with running Windows on the Tablet is that its not really designed for it.  Has some issues with office programs when using the touch screen.



Touchscreen netbooks are the best of both worlds.  Although with one of those 2Go pads you'd be able to hook up a keyboard and mouse I'm sure.


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## Lanther

speedyink said:


> Touchscreen netbooks are the best of both worlds.  Although with one of those 2Go pads you'd be able to hook up a keyboard and mouse I'm sure.




Yeah they have two USB ports and VGA outs as well if you wanted a bigger monitor.


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## spynoodle

Lanther said:


> Yeah they have two USB ports and VGA outs as well if you wanted a bigger monitor.


These 2go tablets seem pretty epic. Psh, iPads.....


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## speedyink

spynoodle said:


> These 2go tablets seem pretty epic. Psh, iPads.....



Yeah, likin the looks of it, heheh


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## Twist86

crake340 said:


> I used to think the same thing about Kindles, but now I totally changed my opinion on them. My parents got me one for christmas, and trust me, if you are a reader they are definitely worth the money. They are a nice mix of technology and old school and nowadays people (including me) will pretty much use anything that has technology tied to it. I find myself reading a whole lot just to get the chance to use the kindle. at my college i've only ever seen two other people using kindles, so i dont think they've reached 'sheep user' status



My complaint is not on the product but the price of that product. Get me a kindle for $75 and drop older books to REAL prices and I will buy them up. As it is they are charging top dollar even for old classics and there is no paper/ink prices and the cost to scan/upload is cheap.


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## lucasbytegenius

Twist86 said:


> My complaint is not on the product but the price of that product. Get me a kindle for $75 and drop older books to REAL prices and I will buy them up. As it is they are charging top dollar even for old classics and there is no paper/ink prices and the cost to scan/upload is cheap.



They've got to make a profit somehow, even though I heard the Kindle might drop even below the price you listed.
I think the book price is to keep the ebook business from getting as bad as things like iTunes and such with the music, the music companies are getting hardly anything from them.


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## Ethan3.14159

I can completely see the point of tablets. I'd much rather carry around a tablet than a laptop. Tablets are up to the point where they provide almost the same functionality as a laptop with a more natural interface. Touch done properly (I'm looking at the collection of rubbish Windows 7 tablets) is a far more natural than a mouse and keyboard. 

I'm seriously considering getting rid of my Macbook Pro and just going with an iPad 2. iOS now has proper music recording software, fully fledged photoshop will soon be available, and excellent feed/social integration. I can't think of any reason to keep my laptop around. Sure, the hardware of a laptop is miles ahead of any tablet. However, that's irrelevant as long as the software is made to match.


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## strollin

I've yet to see any touch interface that I would prefer to use over a mouse and keyboard except for very basic tasks.  I very much prefer a "real" keyboard over a virtual keyboard such as you would find on a tablet.


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## Ethan3.14159

strollin said:


> I've yet to see any touch interface that I would prefer to use over a mouse and keyboard except for very basic tasks.  I very much prefer a "real" keyboard over a virtual keyboard such as you would find on a tablet.


A mouse and keyboard is a nightmare for anyone who is illustrating, editing photos, or designing. Sure, there are drawing tablets, but doesn't it make more sense to combine the touch and screen? It's just more natural to use a touch interface. Compare zooming; what's more natural? Pinch zooming with 2 fingers, or holding ctrl and using a scroll wheel? Even just dragging a mouse around seems tedious next to just touching any part of the screen. 

I can understand the keyboard since we're all used to the tactile feedback from a physical keyboard. 

Overall the keyboard and mouse is a wall between the user and the device. A mouse and keyboard is like using tongs to pick up everything. Yes, you can do it, and you may get used to it. However, it's still not as natural or intuitive as using your hands. 

There is a reason you see most non-computer geeks raving about their tablet. It gives intuitiveness and simplicity back to the user.


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## strollin

When I use a touch interface I find myself wishing for a stylus to increase accuracy, no matter how you slice it, touch is not very precise.


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## speedyink

Stylus is very important for anything near precise, ie. drawing.  You finger is monstrous compared to the tip of a pen.


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## Intel_man

lol iPads blow for tablets. 

Asus EEE Pad Transformer is the best.


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## FXB

Intel_man said:


> lol iPads blow for tablets.
> 
> Asus EEE Pad Transformer is the best.



Is it out yet? have you tried it?


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## lucasbytegenius

Intel_man said:


> lol iPads blow for tablets.
> 
> Asus EEE Pad Transformer is the best.


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## tlarkin

I am going to make some assumptions here, and if I am wrong please correct me.

1)  I assume most of you do not use your computers on a professional level and do all your daily work at your job on a computer.

2)  I am also going to assume most of you have not branched out that much beyond Windows.  I mean this in the sense that you gotta use a non Windows machine for at least 6 months straight, if not 1 year.  You cannot really pick up Linux or OS X and know how to thoroughly use the ins and outs of the OS in less than 6 months.  Unless you have tons of previous experience.

The iPad has it's place for sure.  I have about 300 to 400 at my work.   Most of them are for students to use in class, use digital text books, and do research on.  The students like it because it doesn't weigh a ton, it is portable, and it just works.

Then I have many directors and executives that have iPads.  These people are in and out all day long.  They are in meetings, shooting emails, in more meetings and are on the go constantly.  With cloud sync they can sync their docs on their iPad with their desktop and other mac laptops.   They don't have to carry around a laptop and a charger since the iPad is thin and light weight and the battery lasts all day pretty much.

Me personally, I cannot use an iPad for work.  For one I need command line access as I write code in shell and python.  I also need apps that don't really exist yet on the iPad to be able to do my job.   

My friend's fiancé is a lawyer.  She just bought an iPad and uses it in trial, she does her ical on it, and she loves it.  Because again, she goes back and forth all day from her office, the courts, and where ever else she needs to be to do her work on whatever case she is on.  So she does field work too.

The medical field is huge on iPads.  It replaces the doctor's clip board, with a digital one with tons of medical apps.   The doc can pull up patient info, xrays, test results and so forth.   It is light weight both in the OS and physically so it runs fast and smooth.

Finally, the UI, is quite intuitive.  I have not yet seen a touch device that is as smooth as an iOS device.  I have seen touch devices that have better operating environments, and possibly better apps, but Apple just makes their multi-touch screen products better than everyone else's.  Not everyone does true multitouch either.  I have sat down and demoed several Android devices and the iPad when we were first looking at deploying them at work.  While, the Android devices had their pros, and were nice, the UI didn't seem as intuitive as the multi-touch on Apple products.   I really cannot explain it, it is something you need to sit down and use both hands on several products to get a feel for it.

Is the iPad for everyone?  Nope, but it sure does have it's place.  When you use your computers professionally for your work and you rely on them every day for your job, you tend to look at them a different way.  You don't look at hardware specs, heck you don't even look at the price some of the times, you look at how efficient it will be with your work.


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## lucasbytegenius

Personally I have used Linux and OS X for more than a year and a half, and I can say that I do have a feel for it at least.
And I agree about the iPad's unexplainable magic, I've picked up a friend's XOOM to see what it was like, and it just didn't compare in my opinion UI-wise.

So, there's no battle between which is best, it's just personal preference, and I hope other people realize that and stop trying to force their preferences on other people, like this thread has done.


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## Ethan3.14159

Intel_man said:


> lol iPads blow for tablets.
> 
> Asus EEE Pad Transformer is the best.


Yeah right...

It may be a great piece of hardware, but Apple has the functionality down to a science. I mean professional musicians are recording music straight onto their iPads. The ecosystem Apple has developed between the iPad, cloud services, other Apple devices, and even Windows currently has no match. I wish there was legitimate competition for the iPad, but there isn't. A lot of decent tablets out, but Apple got a huge head start, and no one offers the complete ecosystem Apple does. 

The point of tablets is to provide intuitive functionality without the complexity. Asus, Motorola, HP, and most tablet companies have yet to understand that. Having the fastest hardware or the most USB ports is irrelevant if the average person hates using the device.


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## Quiltface

I think tablets definately have their place like tlarkin said.  I can totally see the benefit of those in the medical field.  The medical field is always trying to find a new gadget for that, the palms were big in the medical field.  The problem is they tend to market the tablets to home users and i personally dont see the benefit of them besides a toy.  I would pay $150 for one  but never $500+.  I would use it to casually browse the web and check email really fast  waste some time playing a game and take to the throne room.  Other than that I personally wont use it for any other reason.  

I did however see one that had a RJ45 jack on it... now that is starting to get into my line of work now.  Given the right applications on it i can take it to my sites and plug it in to the network and do scans and internal audits.  A lot of the places i go doesn't have a desk and using a notebook can get awkward, that would work out great.  I think that one was like $200   which is do able for me.


I think tablets are pretty neat but its all about price with me... like everything is.  I work hard for my money I dont like paying too much for something I don't need.


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## Quiltface

Oh and on that ASUS thing, that looks promising... the problem is  it will probably use windows which i think is a horrible OS for tablets.  Windows needs to make a tablet OS if they want to compete  they cant just throw 7 on a tablet  it doesnt function the same way  its a different computing experience altogether. 

Asus does make fine products and wouldnt be surprised if that device isnt phenomenal.... it needs to run android though.  

I haven't used HP's webos yet but i bet it is good, it is essentially PALMos since they bought them out.  I always liked PALM os  i mean its outdated now but it still works  its quick responsive stable... not alot of bells and whistles  but they knew how to make a product that worked well.   Let's see what HP does to it.


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## tlarkin

The other thing about the iDevices from Apple is that iOS runs apps in their own instance.  They are completely self contained, so if an app crashes it cannot affect the rest of the system at all.  This also makes it very secure.   You may lose the ability to "customize" the iOS exactly how you want it, as some of you like to bring that up a lot.  However, the tablets are meant to be mobile computing devices.

It also has hardware not found in any other tablet.  They designed their own processor based off of ARM technology.  The iPads also boast an IPS screen.   It has the thickness of the iPhone.   You cannot really compare it to a netbook or any other tablet on a hardware level, because the hardware configuration in the iPad is pretty much exclusive to the iPad itself.

There are apps for everything.  There are apps to control A/V switch boards remotely.  So your A/V tech can sit in the crowd at a presentation and tweak the audio/video settings with out having to go actually touch the control panel.   There are apps that will control your whole home entertainment system, your receiver, itunes, TV, digital media, and more.  There are apps that can control your car, arm the alarm, unlock the doors, control powered windows, control the car stereo and so forth.   An old buddy of mine I used to work with has one and he travels for his job.  He has the Marvel Comics app, and gets all sorts of comics downloaded to his iPad so he can read them when he is flying out of the country.

There are tons of real world applications for the iPad (and other tablets) from personal usage all the way to enterprise usage.  The apps out there are almost endless.   There are sound boards that will direct input to these devices so if you do a keynote or a speech you can output all your audio to an instant pod cast.  

Really the only limit is the user, and how the user uses these devices.   Some users will use them to their fullest potential, and other users may just use them for a glorified web browser.  It just depends.


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## Quiltface

how does the app roll your windows up in your car?  what kind of car do you need to do that...


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## tlarkin

[YT]f1WyyvNo1Sc[/YT]

There are tons of videos for this stuff.  You gotta buy a unit you install in your car and the iPhone just acts like the remote control interface to it.


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## Quiltface

hahaha  that would be crazy if that were real.

I would buy one and just stick them on peoples windshields and open their doors and steal their car...


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## tlarkin

Quiltface said:


> hahaha  that would be crazy if that were real.
> 
> I would buy one and just stick them on peoples windshields and open their doors and steal their car...



Oops I was busy at work and grabbed the wrong link....there is a guy that demos what the package can do in his GT.  It costs some money and requires 3rd party hardware to work along with the iPhone, but it does exist.

That is obviously a parody...hahaha, my bad.


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## Quiltface

lol i thought you were trying play me for a fool for a minute.

to me that stuff is all cool and impressive, but I cant say I will ever need to roll my windows up from my phone or something like that.  Ill just do it from the car like i have been doing for the past 12 years ive been driving.

I like how there is so much potential with technology these days, I just wish more practical things would come from it...  it will happen i guess... im sure with every next big thing there was some trial and error before it.

Kind of like my car has a push button ignition... ok i didnt want it  it came with the package that had all the other stuff i wanted with my car  so i had no choice but to get it.   Are people really that lazy that we have to justify getting a button to turn our car on as opposed to turning a key?   that is fluff to me.

but im sure when it went from cranks to keys someone probably said the same thing im saying.

I want a program that will change my oil.


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## tlarkin

http://www.yapfiles.ru/show/45167/a66bef30fe6c8a3ea446f382e9f6fb67.flv.html

[YT]muiv5qDisrk[/YT]

I cannot find the video of the old rebuilt GT that the guy put the remote system in for his iPhone.  I am sure if you google it enough you may find it.


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## speedyink

Lol, rolling down your car windows with a tablet is about as useful as that new pepsi vending machine concept.

Maaaybe if I had money shooting out of my ass I'd buy an ipad for my house that acts as a light switch/heater macro.  Then again there's still a million things better to spend money on in my opinion.


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## tlarkin

speedyink said:


> Lol, rolling down your car windows with a tablet is about as useful as that new pepsi vending machine concept.
> 
> Maaaybe if I had money shooting out of my ass I'd buy an ipad for my house that acts as a light switch/heater macro.  Then again there's still a million things better to spend money on in my opinion.



haha I never said it was technology everyone needs.  I agree, I wouldn't buy it either.  The only reason I brought it up, is to show that companies are innovating off the iOS devices.   Have you seen the app that controls your home?  It controls your showers/baths, ovens, thermostat, lighting, home entertainment systems, and so forth.  While I don't need (or could afford that) if I did have a pimp ass house and money I would totally buy it.

I could probably look at over half the stuff you own and think of better things to spend my money on....that is total opinion.  I am sure vice versa of my things if you came over and looked what I own.   

The fact is that iOS devices changed the rules on smart phones and tablet devices.  Companies are innovating with them, and while some or a lot of it may not apply to you, there is a market for it.  If there wasn't a market for it, they would fail.   Apple sold over 5 million iPad 2s opening weekend.  Verizon has already activated like 3 million iPhones since they got the ability to do so.  

Then again, everyone wants to just play angry birds, which is a game I don't play.   So, your mileage may vary.


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## speedyink

tlarkin said:


> haha I never said it was technology everyone needs.  I agree, I wouldn't buy it either.  The only reason I brought it up, is to show that companies are innovating off the iOS devices.   Have you seen the app that controls your home?  It controls your showers/baths, ovens, thermostat, lighting, home entertainment systems, and so forth.  While I don't need (or could afford that) if I did have a pimp ass house and money I would totally buy it.
> 
> I could probably look at over half the stuff you own and think of better things to spend my money on....that is total opinion.  I am sure vice versa of my things if you came over and looked what I own.
> 
> The fact is that iOS devices changed the rules on smart phones and tablet devices.  Companies are innovating with them, and while some or a lot of it may not apply to you, there is a market for it.  If there wasn't a market for it, they would fail.   Apple sold over 5 million iPad 2s opening weekend.  Verizon has already activated like 3 million iPhones since they got the ability to do so.
> 
> Then again, everyone wants to just play angry birds, which is a game I don't play.   So, your mileage may vary.




The house remote, while a cool idea, is definitely more of a flashy look at me concept than a useful one.  I could see it becoming annoying after the first week.

I know you would, even I see half the crap I have and go "why do i need it?"  You're right though, it's entirely opinion, I know there's a lot of things I appreciate way more than a lot of other people would.  If everyone had the same opinion life would be boring.

I realize no one knew what the hell to do with touch before Apple came along.  At which point, Apple laid down a brilliant foundation for how touch interfaces should be.   For this I am thankful.  What has sprouted from that is some brilliant creations from other developers (Android for one), which happen to cater more to my preferences.  There are some people who prefer the original, albeit basic design and they can go ahead and buy an iOS product, no skin off my back.  

Augh, Angry birds is not worth the hype it gets.  It's just another repetitive cell phone game.


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## Quiltface

like i said  hopefully people will continue to just spit out goofy gadgets in the hopes they come across something that changes the way we live for the better.  I think its pretty much agreed that we dont need to roll down our windows with our phone.  as cool as that would be to show someone who has never seen it  it would lose its pizazz after a while and never be used again.


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## tlarkin

I think you will see the iOS model come out in many different forms of technology.  Kiosks, retail store registers, menu systems at restaurants, even the menu's them self can be replaced with iPads.   I did the math and it is actually around the same price to have leather bound fancy menus versus iPads.   High end restaurants charge you $300 a meal, so having an iPad for a menu is no biggie.

You will see the model at grocery stores and so forth and the reason is, is because that the iOS model is very secure.   Apps run entirely in their own environment, they are 100% self contained.   If the app crashes, then the rest of the iOS features work no problem.  If an app is malicious, it cannot infect anything outside of it's own environment.  Users do not run as admin/root and the only time you actually modify the iOS device is when you update it via iTunes.   Even then, apps don't access other apps.   

This model is very secure, and stable.   Plus it is simple, and it only really uses Obj C and open standards.  Meaning that anyone can develop for it and it should be compatible with everything else that supports open standards.

Time will tell where it will go, but Apple has sold a crap ton of the iOS devices and no one has really made one better than they have.  I admit I like the Android's openness about developing and distributing apps, but the iOS devices Apple makes, their UI just cannot be touched.  I haven't touched or messed with a touch screen item that is as intuitive as Apple's multi-touch screen.


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## Iceyn1pples

tlarkin said:


> I did the math and it is actually around the same price to have leather bound fancy menus versus iPads.   High end restaurants charge you $300 a meal, so having an iPad for a menu is no biggie.




OK, I get it, you LOVE Mac. But how much is Apple paying you? And can we please see your math?

Or please link me to your past post so that you dont have to repeat yourself.

Thanks


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## tlarkin

Iceyn1pples said:


> OK, I get it, you LOVE Mac. But how much is Apple paying you? And can we please see your math?
> 
> Or please link me to your past post so that you dont have to repeat yourself.
> 
> Thanks



You are a hair away from my ignore list, use the search function.


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## Iceyn1pples

I dont know what you have against me, but i simply asked to see the math that you did where you proved that an ipad would be just as cost effective as a leather bound paper menu. 

Im honestly curious, I want to see the menu that you priced out that can cost "around the same" as a 499 for the entry level iPad. 

Dont be hatin!


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## tlarkin

Iceyn1pples said:


> I dont know what you have against me, but i simply asked to see the math that you did where you proved that an ipad would be just as cost effective as a leather bound paper menu.
> 
> Im honestly curious, I want to see the menu that you priced out that can cost "around the same" as a 499 for the entry level iPad.
> 
> Dont be hatin!



I don't have anything personal against you.  However, in previous threads I requested you research and prove your stance, and you didn't.  You just linked newegg with out actually researching spec for spec, which was not a 100% valid comparison.  Then when I said I was tired of having the same old debate and you could search my older posts, you claimed you did, but you decided to avoid the fact I had actually listed out every spec for spec comparison.

A simple usage of the search function would bring up this thread I am referring, and here it is

http://www.computerforum.com/187482-why-would-anyone-buy-ipad-5.html


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## Quiltface

I went to chili's this weekend and they had little tablet like things at the table,  it had the menu and specials on it.. games  and you can order dessert and pay for your food at the table... it even spat out a receipt.   Very Cool indeed.

Im pretty sure dessert was the only thing you could order... maybe drinks  but i dont drink so i didnt even browse that section.

It wasnt an ipad...i dont know what it was my guess it was built on android.  It had a stand built into it and a printer so it wasnt like a device you would pick up for yourself.


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## tlarkin

Quiltface said:


> I went to chili's this weekend and they had little tablet like things at the table,  it had the menu and specials on it.. games  and you can order dessert and pay for your food at the table... it even spat out a receipt.   Very Cool indeed.
> 
> Im pretty sure dessert was the only thing you could order... maybe drinks  but i dont drink so i didnt even browse that section.
> 
> It wasnt an ipad...i dont know what it was my guess it was built on android.  It had a stand built into it and a printer so it wasnt like a device you would pick up for yourself.



Yeah I love the android Market and the flexibility of their app distribution but I am not a fan of Java.  Java is a language some developers try to use on purpose so they don't have to port their app/product to multiple platforms, since Java runs on all.   However, when you have a non open standard acting like an open standard moderated by committee you get what you get and that is Java.

You are always at the mercy of the developers, because you can only use what they provide unless you want to in-house develop everything yourself.  This is the logical reason why I like iOS better than Android, is that iOS is built off nothing but open standards.  Objective C, HTML 5, javascripting, java and so forth.  Since Obj C can bridge to C#, C, C++ you can use those too, and I think you can use other languages that can bridge to Obj C like Python and perhaps ruby.   Though I am not a developer so I am not 100% on that.

The one thing about Java that I do not like is that Java, since it is treated as an open platform, but it really isn't (since it is owned by Sun/Oracle) is that they do not abide by any platform's rules.  They do not follow standards given by Microsoft, Apple, Linux distros, etc.  So it is kind of a catch 22, yes your app runs on everything but it isn't always easy to manage since you don't follow any platform specific models that the OS developers give you.

The touch screen idea will catch on.  I don't think Apple will break into retail markets like fast food chains, ATM machines, banks, self check out at the grocery stores and so forth, but I do see Apple breaking into more specific fields.  High end dining, medical, engineering, marketing, graphic design, legal, and of course their biggest market - consumer.


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## Iceyn1pples

tlarkin said:


> I don't have access to the costs of these things handy, but lets say gold foil printing is going to cost you $10 per a menu, the actual print job itself will be $1 per a sheet, to have the logo stamped on the leather binding is another $10, the labor cost of printing them is (guessing here) $500, and of course since these are fancy menus with fancy fonts there needs to be some sort of design done to it, like in Adobe Illustrator or something, so the labor costs go up.  Plus commission an artist to design something fancy for the menu.  I am going to say, $500?
> 
> 300 logos stamped on the leather = $3,000.00
> gold foil print $10 per a menu =  $3,000.00
> $1 per a page 5 pages * 300 menus = $1,500.00
> labor to print = $500.00
> artist commission = $500.00
> 300 leather bound binders for menus = $12,000.00
> cost of fancy paper = $33,000.00.00
> Total = $53,500.00
> cost per menu = $178.33
> 
> 67 iPads = $33,433.00
> 100 iPads = $49,900.00
> 
> Trust me, when you are spending 150 to 400 per a meal per a person at a fine dining restaurant they are going to buy the most expensive stuff to make their menu look good.  The high end critics will judge them on such things.  With millions of dollars invested at times it doesn't surprise me menus for a 200 person restaurant can cost over $50k.



You go into detail the costs of creating a menu, and compare it to an out of the box state of an ipad. 

1. I pads require configuration (Restaurants usually contract in IT for support when needed)

2. The app needs to be developed for the specific restaurant and a menu needs to be programmed. and im sure the cost for some to develop an app would cost significantly more than designing a paper menu. What about patches, updates, or even fixing bugs as the menu gets used. IT Development costs are high if they hire in house, and even higher if they contract....

3. Maintenance of said Ipads. Updating the required firmware apple shoves down your throat on a 100 ipads takes a bit of time. I say 20-30 minutes per Ipad as they need to be backedup prior to update. Thats just uneccesary costs. Not to mention hosting the servers and software and hardware setup required for such communications between the app and the restaurant staff. 

I say the cost FAR outway the benefits. At a high scale restaurant, its all about the food, not the menu.


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## tlarkin

Iceyn1pples said:


> You go into detail the costs of creating a menu, and compare it to an out of the box state of an ipad.
> 
> 1. I pads require configuration (Restaurants usually contract in IT for support when needed)
> 
> 2. The app needs to be developed for the specific restaurant and a menu needs to be programmed. and im sure the cost for some to develop an app would cost significantly more than designing a paper menu. What about patches, updates, or even fixing bugs as the menu gets used. IT Development costs are high if they hire in house, and even higher if they contract....
> 
> 3. Maintenance of said Ipads. Updating the required firmware apple shoves down your throat on a 100 ipads takes a bit of time. I say 20-30 minutes per Ipad as they need to be backedup prior to update. Thats just uneccesary costs. Not to mention hosting the servers and software and hardware setup required for such communications between the app and the restaurant staff.
> 
> I say the cost FAR outway the benefits. At a high scale restaurant, its all about the food, not the menu.



Have you ever been to a high end dining experience?  I mean where your plate alone costs over $100 for a simple one course meal?  Granted, that is not really my thing, but I have been there and trust me, they can easily afford ipads.  It makes them look good and people like it.  How do you think Ferrari actually sell?  It is not because they are practical that is for sure.


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## Iceyn1pples

tlarkin said:


> Have you ever been to a high end dining experience?  I mean where your plate alone costs over $100 for a simple one course meal?  Granted, that is not really my thing, but I have been there and trust me, they can easily afford ipads.  It makes them look good and people like it.  How do you think Ferrari actually sell?  It is not because they are practical that is for sure.



Ya, but that has nothing to do with your argument that an ipad is just as cost effective as a fancy paper menu. OF all people here, I expected you to do a fair comparison.  BUT i was wrong.

Your comparisons are simply to make your point, often biased. And you dart backing up your claims by changing the subject so that you simply dont have to answer the question at hand. 

Honestly, how fair of a comparison is that?


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## tlarkin

Iceyn1pples said:


> Ya, but that has nothing to do with your argument that an ipad is just as cost effective as a fancy paper menu. OF all people here, I expected you to do a fair comparison.  BUT i was wrong.
> 
> Your comparisons are simply to make your point, often biased. And you dart backing up your claims by changing the subject so that you simply dont have to answer the question at hand.
> 
> Honestly, how fair of a comparison is that?



1st off iPads are ridiculous easy to manage.   2nd, there are apps out there for high end wine menus and dining, so there is a market for it, and 3rd my comparison was that it was feasible cost wise.

I worked in a print shop for a few years in high school, and once you get fancy paper, metallic ink, real leather bindings, it gets quite expensive.   I did a leather bound set of booklets for a church when I worked there, and it cost them almost $20k for their little leather bound booklets.   

I think it is time you meet my ignore list.   You just want to pick arguments with me rather than have a discussion.  You, again for the last time, misread what I wrote.   I never said it would replace menus, I said it was cost effective to replace them.

Either way, see ya


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## Quiltface

the idea that i like even better than replacing menus with tablets is the MS surface replacing the table/menu...  cost aside  that would be pretty neat.


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## tlarkin

Quiltface said:


> the idea that i like even better than replacing menus with tablets is the MS surface replacing the table/menu...  cost aside  that would be pretty neat.



Actually those really aren't all that expensive when considering the cost of solid wood tables and bars these days.   The cost of wood has gone way up.


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