# New Build



## Netskimmer

I know that I said I would wait until November to build my new rig but the wait is killing me! There are so many new games out there that my comp just can't keep up with. It seems to me that most of the fast changing tech revolves around CPUs and GPUs. All the Intel 2 and 4 core processors I saw on NewEgg have a LGA 775 socket type and all the good vid cards are using PCIe so unless PCIe and socket LGA 775 are soon to be replaced I could easily build a great system and upgrade the CPU and GPU many months from now should should either become a bottleneck and from what I've heard DDR3 won't be nessicary for gaming for at least a year. What do you guys think?


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## colt1911

For now I would get a good socket 775 board and an Intel dual core cpu .Be sure to consider this when getting your board , you'll want to make sure that it will run the new Quad cores coming out later. Also from what I've read about DDR3 is that right now it's not worth it . The price to performance ratio over DDR2  is not worth the upgrade.


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## oscaryu1

Netskimmer said:


> I know that I said I would wait until November to build my new rig but the wait is killing me! There are so many new games out there that my comp just can't keep up with. It seems to me that most of the fast changing tech revolves around CPUs and GPUs. All the Intel 2 and 4 core processors I saw on NewEgg have a LGA 775 socket type and all the good vid cards are using PCIe so unless PCIe and socket LGA 775 are soon to be replaced I could easily build a great system and upgrade the CPU and GPU many months from now should should either become a bottleneck and from what I've heard DDR3 won't be nessicary for gaming for at least a year. What do you guys think?



Just get an LGA775 motherboard with an Nvidia chipset, and can support 45nm tech for future processors, and an 8800. Should be good. 2GB RAM is also good.


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## diduknowthat

oscaryu1 said:


> Just get an LGA775 motherboard with an Nvidia chipset, and can support 45nm tech for future processors, and an 8800. Should be good. 2GB RAM is also good.



Is there a specific reason to get a nvidia chipset? Why not just pick up the new P35/38 motherboards? (unless he wants to go SLI later on, which really isn't worth it).


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## oscaryu1

diduknowthat said:


> Is there a specific reason to get a nvidia chipset? Why not just pick up the new P35/38 motherboards? (unless he wants to go SLI later on, which really isn't worth it).



Just if he wants to overclock.


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## Netskimmer

So I should avoid SLI and Crossfire? I've heard that a really good single card will usually out perform two lesser cards but I wasn't sure if the performance of two good cards would be worth the cost.

Now that I have decided to build one I'd like some suggestions on hardware.

Not too sure about the GPU or monitor. Do you think I should get aftermarket cooling for the GPU, mem, or mobo?

CPU:	Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Allendale 2.2GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115031
             $129.99
GPU:	EVGA GeForce 8800Ultra 768MB 384-bit GDDR3
http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A9602841
	$624.75


Mobo:	EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188013
	$229.99

Mem:	OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227178
             145.99

Sound:	7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Blaster 
             X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty 	Professional Series
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102005
	$135.99

Cooling: Danger Den water cooling Power Kit
http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=183&cat=2&page=1
	$163.28 

	Arctic Silver CMQ-22G The high-density, ceramic-based thermal compound
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100012
	$9.99

Power: 	 PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad (Black) EPS12V 750W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009
	$179.99

Case: 	COOLER MASTER COSMOS 1000 RC-1000-KSN1-GP Black/ Silver Steel ATX Full Tower
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119138
	$199.99

HHD: 	Western Digital Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB 10,000 RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA150
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136011
	$184.99

Mon: 	SAMSUNG 245BW Black High Glossy 24" 5ms DVI Widescreen 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001234
	$489.99

OS:	Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate DVD - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116140
	$319.99

Misc:	ASUS Black 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA DVD-ROM Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135143
	$20.99

	Generic Keyboard
	$20

	Logitech MX518 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104178
             $39.99

Total:
	$2,895.91


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## UriA702

looks pretty solid, but if you plan on upgrading the processor once the 45nm chips come out why not just overclock something cheap if it's only for a few months. an e2190 will overclock to near 3 ghz and costs under $100.
I am waiting for the 45nm chips to build a system, not so much that i want a 45nm, ill have to see the improvements over the current 65nm. More that the prices of the better core 2 duos will drop so that would work out lovely.


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## Netskimmer

The cheapest one I could find on newegg is the E4400 for $135.

Will the mobo I picked out be compatible with the 45mn chips? It doesn't really say in the description or specs. 

How difficult is it to overclock these?

Why is the E6700 Conroe one newegg more expensive than the E6850 Conroe? As far as I can tell the specs on the E6850 are superior in every way?


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> The cheapest one I could find on newegg is the E4400 for $135.
> 
> Will the mobo I picked out be compatible with the 45mn chips? It doesn't really say in the description or specs.
> 
> How difficult is it to overclock these?
> 
> Why is the E6700 Conroe one newegg more expensive than the E6850 Conroe? As far as I can tell the specs on the E6850 are superior in every way?



Yes, the 680i will support 45nm chips. Update the BIOS after the build. The E6850 is great, but I would recommend the Q6600 G0 stepping. It's cheaper, and it's a quad core. With the 680i, it'll be a breeze to OC. Good luck!

BTW, the Cosmos is an excellent choice. I'm gettin' it soon.


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## Netskimmer

Is going quad core worth the slower front side bus and clockspeed?


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> Is going quad core worth the slower front side bus and clockspeed?



That's a very good question. I'm not sure. The Q6600 (G0 stepping) is known to clock as high as 3.7 GHz on air with an aggressive voltage. I think you would see better performance with a quad core at lower speeds. I could be wrong, however.


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## Netskimmer

Your probably right. How can I tell if the Q6600 on newegg is G0? I've never been to glubit.com before, do they have a good rep? Do you think the vid card is too much? 768MB seems like a lot to me but I haven't bought a vid card in so long I'm not sure. I'm also not sure about the monitor.


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> Your probably right. How can I tell if the Q6600 on newegg is G0? I've never been to glubit.com before, do they have a good rep? Do you think the vid card is too much? 768MB seems like a lot to me but I haven't bought a vid card in so long I'm not sure. I'm also not sure about the monitor.



Click here for clubit.com at Reseller Ratings. They appear to have an excellent reputation. Newegg doesn't guarantee the Q6600 w/ the G0 stepping. I'd go with Clubit.com.

The GTX is awesome. You won't be dissapointed. The monitor looks great - maybe a little expensive. The price is probably due to the HDMI functionality. If you don't plan on using the HDMI, consider the Samsung.

I've heard from other members' of the forum that the Zalman 9500 is really loud. Consider purchasing the 9700.


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## Netskimmer

Ok so I'll  go with the Samsung and the Zal 9700.

Do you think it would be worth the extra $50 to get this:

EVGA GeForce 8800Ultra 768MB 384-bit GDDR3
http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=CA9602841
$624.75

Instead of what I have currently selected:

EVGA GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130079
$589.99

As far as I can tell the only difference is that the Ultra has a slower core clock speed but a faster mem clock speed.


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> Ok so I'll  go with the Samsung and the Zal 9700.
> 
> Do you think it would be worth the extra $50 to get this:
> 
> EVGA GeForce 8800Ultra 768MB 384-bit GDDR3
> http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=CA9602841
> $624.75
> 
> Instead of what I have currently selected:
> 
> EVGA GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130079
> $589.99
> 
> As far as I can tell the only difference is that the Ultra has a slower core clock speed but a faster mem clock speed.



Yeah. Some may disagree with me, but if you can afford it, why not? I've heard the Ultras overclock well. You can easily move the Ultra core clock above the GTX stock core clock

Since you're saving money on the monitor, get a Raptor. Install your OS and games on the Raptor, and use the Samsung HD for storing media and other files. Every high performance rig should have a Raptor, IMO.


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## Netskimmer

Do You think I'll need an after market cooler for the GPU? This will be a pure gaming rig so I shouldn't need more that one HHD provided that it is big enough. If I do decide to go SLI later will my PS be big enough?


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> Do You think I'll need an after market cooler for the GPU?



That depends. If you want to overclock the card significantly, an aftermarket cooler will help. For now, I wouldn't worry about it. See how far you get on stock cooling. 



Netskimmer said:


> This will be a pure gaming rig so I shouldn't need more that one HHD provided that it is big enough.



Do what you want. Do some research on the Raptor. It's the fastest HD on the market. You'll notice faster performance in gaming (level loading, for example), OS startup and overall performance. Plus, you'll have serious bragging rights. That counts for something, doesn't it? 




Netskimmer said:


> If I do decide to go SLI later will my PS be big enough?



I'd go with the PSU I recommended in a previous post. Click here.


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## Netskimmer

I was actually thinking that since the only things on this computer will be the OS, games and related software. I should dump the Samsung HD and just get the Raptor, I was just wondering if 150GB would be enough but I don't see why it wouldn't be, at least to start with. I could always get another HD later if I need it.


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> I was actually thinking that since the only things on this computer will be the OS, games and related software. I should dump the Samsung HD and just get the Raptor, I was just wondering if 150GB would be enough but I don't see why it wouldn't be, at least to start with. I could always get another HD later if I need it.



Yeah. That's what I would do. I have all the latest games and programs installed on Vista. I still have 79 GB of space available.


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## Netskimmer

How about a physics card? Last I checked they were very expensive and there was not much call for them but that was quite a while ago and they seem to have gone down considerably in price. Do many current games benefit from them?

I also thought I'd ask about water cooling. It's been awhile since I looked at that too. At the time most people said it was more trouble than its worth. Do you know if that has changed?


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> How about a physics card? Do many current games benefit from them?



Nope. Hold off on the physics card. 



Netskimmer said:


> I also thought I'd ask about water cooling. It's been awhile since I looked at that too. At the time most people said it was more trouble than its worth. Do you know if that has changed?



I've never tried it (plan to soon). Do some research. There's a lot of material on the web that covers water cooling. Click here for an article that lists the best WC parts on the market. Maximum PC used a water cooling setup for their 2007 Dream Machine. They used the Cosmos for thier case.


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## Netskimmer

I figured as much for the PPU considering what I've read. 

Looks to me Like I'd have to drop another $300 using their WC setup. It's about double what it would cost to put good after maket air coolers on my CPU/GPU. I wonder if it would be worth the extra cooling? Of coarse there are also those bragging rights you mentioned before.

That article mentioned that Vista is not ready for gaming, thats what I had in mind for the OS for my new rig, should I get XP 64 Pro instead? I can't see going dual boot like they did. I'd also hate to drop $300 on XP 64 only to upgrade in a few months.


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> I figured as much for the PPU considering what I've read.
> 
> Looks to me Like I'd have to drop another $300 using their WC setup. It's about double what it would cost to put good after maket air coolers on my CPU/GPU. I wonder if it would be worth the extra cooling? Of coarse there are also those bragging rights you mentioned before.



Their WC setup is using top of the line parts. There are kits available that are less expensive. 



Netskimmer said:


> That article mentioned that Vista is not ready for gaming, thats what I had in mind for the OS for my new rig, should I get XP 64 Pro instead? I can't see going dual boot like they did. I'd also hate to drop $300 on XP 64 only to upgrade in a few months.



I'm happy with Vista. I haven't had any problems. MS will continue to improve the OS.


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## mep916

BTW, get the 750W Quad Silencer PSU, not the OCZ modular I recommended earlier. With the great cable management features of the Cosmos, you don't really need a modular PSU. Run all your cables behind the mobo.


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## Serious Chatter

I am totaly agree with you that in everyday new games are launched for computers.i am also crazy about games.


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## mep916

Serious Chatter said:


> I am totaly agree with you that in everyday new games are launched for computers.i am also crazy about games.



You're a spammer.


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## Serious Chatter

Sorry to say but it is only depends upon your need.if you want computer on every time then so for stand by.or  according to need.


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## Netskimmer

Umm... is this guy accidentally posting in the wrong thread or what? Anyway...

Ok, Vista and the Quad Silencer it is.

This kit by Danger Den looks like it would suit my needs perfectly, all its missing is the GPU block, but I figured I'd hold off on that until l a get the system up and running and see how the stock cooler performs.

Danger Den Power Kit
http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=183&cat=2&page=1
$163.28


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## mep916

Nevermind him. He's trying to spam without looking like a spammer. 

From what I've read, Danger Den has an excellent reputation. They make great WC products. If you've done your research, and you're comfortable with that type of setup (maintenence, installation risks, etc.), go for it. Looks pretty good.


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## paratwa

mep916 said:


> You're a spammer.



I am beginning to think it's a bot. One the mods put on here to annoy us.


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## Netskimmer

Well I think we've discussed just about everything on my list and then some. Is there anything else you can think of that we might want to cover?


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> Well I think we've discussed just about everything on my list and then some. Is there anything else you can think of that we might want to cover?



Do plenty of research before water cooling. I'm sure you're capable, just make sure you know exactly what you're doing. Honestly, the only way to really "know" is to try it. Print out your favorite water cooling guide, and keep it close during the installation. 

Is this your first build? If so, be patient when putting everything together. It's really easy. Especially easy with the Cosmos. Plenty of room to work with. 

Keep us updated! Have fun and good luck!


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## Netskimmer

This will be my second completely custom build so I should be ok with everything but the WC. In the mean time I have edited the parts/price list I made initially per our discussions. I think I'll wait a few days at least before I make any purchases so that anyone else who wants to throw their two cents in can do so, you can never have to many informed opinions on something like this. In the mean time I'll do a little more research into WC and read a few guides before I make a final decision on it. Thanks very much for your time and input, I really appreciate it and I'll keep you updated on my progress. Thanks again.


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## mep916

Memory: Corsair 800 Mhz or OCZ 1066 MHz. Your current memory selection is overpriced, IMO. Your list doesn't include a DVD burner (Do you have one already?): Asus

Everything else looks good.

EDIT: I took another look at that Ultra. The speeds are blazing fast! You really don't need to OC it. It'll void the warranty. That's up to you, however.


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## Netskimmer

I don't think the mobo I have selected can handle the OCZ Platinum as it is DDR 1066.

I plan to use this new rig purley for gaming and use my current rig for everything else and it has a DVD burner so I didn't see the need to spend the money on another one and use up space in the case.


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> I don't think the mobo I have selected can handle the OCZ Platinum as it is DDR 1066.



I have the same board runnin' Dominator 1066. It's all good. 



Netskimmer said:


> I plan to use this new rig purley for gaming and use my current rig for everything else and it has a DVD burner so I didn't see the need to spend the money on another one and use up space in the case.



Fair enough.


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## Netskimmer

should I also go with the dominator 1066? Would it be worth the extra $30 to go with it instead of the OCZ?


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## lovely?

Netskimmer said:


> So I should avoid SLI and Crossfire? I've heard that a really good single card will usually out perform two lesser cards but I wasn't sure if the performance of two good cards would be worth the cost.
> 
> Now that I have decided to build one I'd like some suggestions on hardware.
> 
> Not too sure about the GPU or monitor. Do you think I should get aftermarket cooling for the GPU, mem, or mobo?
> 
> CPU:	Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 Stepping Kentsfield 2.40GHz
> http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A1938460
> $264.00
> 
> GPU:	EVGA GeForce 8800Ultra 768MB 384-bit GDDR3
> http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A9602841
> $624.75
> 
> 
> Mobo:	EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188013
> $229.99
> 
> Mem:	Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134125
> $119.99
> 
> Sound:	7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty
> 
> Professional Series
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102005
> $135.99
> 
> Cooling: Danger Den water cooling Power Kit
> http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=183&cat=2&page=1
> $163.28
> 
> Arctic Silver CMQ-22G The high-density, ceramic-based thermal compound
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100012
> $9.99
> 
> Power: 	 PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad (Black) EPS12V 750W
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009
> $179.99
> 
> Case: 	COOLER MASTER COSMOS 1000 RC-1000-KSN1-GP Black/ Silver Steel ATX Full Tower
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119138
> $199.99
> 
> HHD: 	Western Digital Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB 10,000 RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA150
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136011
> $184.99
> 
> Mon: 	SAMSUNG 245BW Black High Glossy 24" 5ms DVI Widescreen
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001234
> $489.99
> 
> OS:	Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate DVD - Retail
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116140
> $319.99
> 
> Misc:	ASUS Black 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA DVD-ROM Drive
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135143
> $20.99
> 
> Generic Keyboard
> $20
> 
> Microsoft D66-00069 Black 3 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB + PS/2 Wired Optical
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826105164
> $16.99
> 
> Total:
> $2,980.92


\


do NOT skimp on the keyboard and mouse, as they are the main tools for accessing your computer. (ie. if your keyboard sucks then your experience typing with a Q6600 behind the hood is useless... and also with a mouse, i just cant enjoy a nice computer with anything below the MX518)


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## Netskimmer

I suppose I can go with a better mouse, I plan to use my current keyboard which I think is rather nice and put the generic one on my current rig.


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> should I also go with the dominator 1066? Would it be worth the extra $30 to go with it instead of the OCZ?



No, I don't think so. I'm not impressed with the Dominator RAM. I thought it would OC better. That may be due to my inexperience with OC'ing - not the RAM. I'm not sure. OCZ is excellent. You might consider the Crucial Ballistix as well. Sorry, I'm not trying to confuse you. I'd go with either the OCZ or the Crucial.


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## Netskimmer

I think I'll just go with the OCZ.


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> I think I'll just go with the OCZ.



You're gonna have a serious rig soon.  When are you buying everything?


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## Netskimmer

I'll probably start ordering stuff by the end of the week. It depends on what, if anything, anyone else has to say about the setup and how my research into WC goes.

How cool do your 8800 GTXs run, do they have stock coolers?

I've read about four wc guides and they seem to conflict a bit on preferences but for the most part they agree on the performance advantages. Though I must admit I'm a bit worried. The thought of building a $3,000+ system then having a leak fry the whole thing is unnerving to me, but as long as I take my time and take great care, I should be ok. Hopefully when it comes time to put this thing together someone here who has experience with wc will take me under his/her wing and help me with it.

It still seems weird to spend so much on a vid card. This is the first time I've had the money to really splurge on things. Up until now I just got a mid-range card, around $250-$300 then got an after-market cooler, modified the bios, and OC'ed the hell out of it using software I got off the internet.


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## oscaryu1

Netskimmer said:


> I'll probably start ordering stuff by the end of the week. It depends on what, if anything, anyone else has to say about the setup and how my research into WC goes.
> 
> How cool do your 8800 GTXs run, do they have stock coolers?
> 
> I've read about four wc guides and they seem to conflict a bit on preferences but for the most part they agree on the performance advantages. Though I must admit I'm a bit worried. The thought of building a $3,000+ system then having a leak fry the whole thing is unnerving to me, but as long as I take my time and take great care, I should be ok. Hopefully when it comes time to put this thing together someone here who has experience with wc will take me under his/her wing and help me with it.
> 
> It still seems weird to spend so much on a vid card. This is the first time I've had the money to really splurge on things. Up until now I just got a mid-range card, around $250-$300 then got an after-market cooler, modified the bios, and OC'ed the hell out of it using software I got off the internet.



Yes, they have stock coolers, not very cool though .


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## maroon1

Netskimmer said:


> The cheapest one I could find on newegg is the E4400 for $135.



E4500 is now cheaper than E4400

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115031


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> How cool do your 8800 GTXs run, do they have stock coolers?.



Yes, they have stock coolers. The temps are good. I OC'd them a bit, but I didn't really notice any significant performance increase. They're currently running at stock speeds. 



Netskimmer said:


> I've read about four wc guides and they seem to conflict a bit on preferences but for the most part they agree on the performance advantages. Though I must admit I'm a bit worried. The thought of building a $3,000+ system then having a leak fry the whole thing is unnerving to me, but as long as I take my time and take great care, I should be ok.



Yeah. I understand, trust me. I'm gonna WC one the new 45nm Intel's when they ship. I'm a little nervous. Then again, I was nervous before I put together my current rig. Everything went together fine. However, there is a significant amount of risk associated with a WC setup. Continue to research, and hopefully, everything will be fine. 

I'm not trying to discourage you, but you will acheive a healthy OC on air w/ the G0 stepping. You shouldn't take this type of risk if you're not ready. 



Netskimmer said:


> Hopefully when it comes time to put this thing together someone here who has experience with wc will take me under his/her wing and help me with it..



If you don't find the WC info you need at this forum, click here.



Netskimmer said:


> It still seems weird to spend so much on a vid card. This is the first time I've had the money to really splurge on things. Up until now I just got a mid-range card, around $250-$300 then got an after-market cooler, modified the bios, and OC'ed the hell out of it using software I got off the internet.



It's an expensive hobby.  You can OC the GTX as much as you would like. It still will not match the performance of the Ultra. BTW, when you receive the Ultra, would you mind taking a measurement of the length? I'm gonna use the EVGA step up program and trade in the GTXs. Until I get the Cosmos, I want to make sure they'll fit in the 900. I read an article that claims the Ultra is shorter than the GTX. I find that hard to believe.


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## b3rt_d4ni3l

Hey mep916,
I found some info for you about the size of the 8800Ultra.



> Size then, just like the GeForce 8800 GTX graphics card the Ultra is 27 CM long, you could say a well hung piece of hardware. It's been said and explained to me by quite a number of female counterparts (render targets as I like to call them) size does matter (Ed: So many jokes, so little time... ).
> 
> Due to the size, note that the power connectors are routed off the top edge of the graphics card instead of the end of the card, so there is no extra space required at the end of the graphics card for power cabling. But before purchasing please check if you can insert a 27 CM piece of hardware in that chassis.



I found it in this article:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/428/3/

Hope that helps. 

EDIT: if you are not familiar, 27 centimeter = 10.629 921 26 inch (so roughly about 11 inches)


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## mep916

b3rt_d4ni3l said:


> Hey mep916,
> I found some info for you about the size of the 8800Ultra.
> 
> 
> 
> I found it in this article:
> http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/428/3/
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> EDIT: if you are not familiar, 27 centimeter = 10.629 921 26 inch (so roughly about 11 inches)



Right on! Thanks.  The GTX is 11" long. I measured it. For some reason, I assumed the Ultra would be a little longer. Every cm counts in the 900.


----------



## Netskimmer

Well, I hate to say it but I think I might wait until November after all. Thats when the new 9800's come out so I can see what they are made of and if I decide to stick with the 8800Ultra, the price should drop like a stone when the 9800's get here. 

I can't see waiting for the 45mn cpu though, It will be months before it gets here and they will probably be unreasonably high priced, and while I was looking at the potential release dates on them Intel had an article talking about their work on 32mn chips with 1.9 billion transistors. So by the time the 45mn chips hit mainstream, they will be dangling those 32's in front of us.

Mid November is only a few weeks off, and most of the parts on my list won't be affected by that short of a wait, probably just the CPU and GPU. Now that I've got most of the rig planned out I think I can survive the wait. We can still talk about and continue to tweak the other components of the current setup of coarse!


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> Well, I hate to say it but I think I might wait until November after all. Thats when the new 9800's come out so I can see what they are made of and if I decide to stick with the 8800Ultra, the price should drop like a stone when the 9800's get here.



I don't believe a release date has been set for the 9800's. You know someone at nVidia? 



Netskimmer said:


> I can't see waiting for the 45mn cpu though, It will be months before it gets here and they will probably be unreasonably high priced, and while I was looking at the potential release dates on them Intel had an article talking about their work on 32mn chips with 1.9 billion transistors. So by the time the 45mn chips hit mainstream, they will be dangling those 32's in front of us.



The QX9650 will ship in three weeks. The rest will be released in January 2008. The 32nm procs in 2009. The price list for the 45nm CPU's are posted here.



Netskimmer said:


> We can still talk about and continue to tweak the other components of the current setup of coarse!



Sure!


----------



## Netskimmer

mep916 said:


> I don't believe a release date has been set for the 9800's. You know someone at nVidia?



This article suggested they would release in November.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Nvidia-9800-Series-Coming-Soon-62786.shtml



mep916 said:


> The QX9650 will ship in three weeks. The rest will be released in January 2008. The 32nm procs in 2009. The price list for the 45nm CPU's are posted here.



Exactly, The only one available at first will be $1,000, the rest won't hit stores until mid Jan, about three months from now. I really don't want to wait 3 months. As long as they are going to be socket 775 and my current Mobo will accommodate them, I think the best thing to do would be build the rig with a CPU that can handle my games until then and then swap it out for say a Q9450.


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> This article suggested they would release in November.
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Nvidia-9800-Series-Coming-Soon-62786.shtml



That article stands alone, unfortunately. Nvidia would have leaked something on either their forum, or to the mainstream technology press by now. Besides, it's highly unlikely that their next product line will carry the "9000" label. Remember, ATI already released a "9000" series. That would be very poor marketing, and potentially confuse consumers, IMO. The speculation continues...



Netskimmer said:


> Exactly, The only one available at first will be $1,000, the rest won't hit stores until mid Jan, about three months from now. I really don't want to wait 3 months. As long as they are going to be socket 775 and my current Mobo will accommodate them, I think the best thing to do would be build the rig with a CPU that can handle my games until then and then swap it out for say a Q9450.



Sounds like a good plan.


----------



## Netskimmer

So is there an educated guess as to when the next series from Nvidia will come out? They probably would have mentioned something about it if it was going to be before 2008 wouldn't they?


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> So is there an educated guess as to when the next series from Nvidia will come out? They probably would have mentioned something about it if it was going to be before 2008 wouldn't they?



The earliest would be mid to late 2008. It kinda depends on what ATI does with their product line. It's too soon for nVidia. They still have a ton of product on the market.


----------



## Netskimmer

So my best bet is to just build the rig now with a descnet cpu and swap it out in 3-4 months when the 45nm chps get here. Since I'll only have the chip for 3-4 months, should I go with the cheaper E4500? do you think it will be able to hadle my games between now and then?


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> should I go with the cheaper E4500? do you think it will be able to hadle my games between now and then?



Probably. I've heard it OC's well. Coupled w/ the Ultra, the E4500 should hold you over 'til '08.


----------



## Netskimmer

Ok, I guess I'll just go with the E4500 for now.


----------



## Netskimmer

Well, I guess if no one else has anything to add I'll start buying.


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> Well, I guess if no one else has anything to add I'll start buying.



Yeah, I think you're ready to go. Good Luck!


----------



## Netskimmer

Crap! ClubIt sold out of the 8800Ultra I was planning to get. I founld this one on NewEgg, it's cheaper and has faster memory and core speeds. What do you think?

MSI NX8800Ultra-T2D768E-HD-OC GeForce 8800Ultra 768MB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127288
$594.99


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> Crap! ClubIt sold out of the 8800Ultra I was planning to get. I founld this one on NewEgg, it's cheaper and has faster memory and core speeds. What do you think?
> 
> MSI NX8800Ultra-T2D768E-HD-OC GeForce 8800Ultra 768MB
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127288
> $594.99



Read some reviews online and on Newegg. If the verdict looks good, go for it!


----------



## Netskimmer

Sorry to double post but people in other threads keep saying that a good gaming PC will cost between $1,500 and $2,000. I think one or two people went as high as $2,500. At this point my setup will cost about $3,000, am I going overboard on my rig?


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> Sorry to double post but people in other threads keep saying that a good gaming PC will cost between $1,500 and $2,000. I think one or two people went as high as $2,500. At this point my setup will cost about $3,000, am I going overboard on my rig?



That's a matter of opinion. I spent $3,700 + on my rig. You could eliminate the Raptor. Eliminate the watercooling. Eliminate the retail copy of Ultimate and get the OEM. What do you want to spend? I'll take a look at your config and see if we can cut corners.


----------



## Netskimmer

I think I'm just nervous, the only two things on this list that are very expensive in my opinion would be the monitor and VGA card and skimping on those in a gaming rig just makes no sense. As for the new card, all the Ultras seem to run uncomfortably hot but I guess that is to be expected, this one seems to run a little hotter due to factory OC. I'm assuming that if I remove the stock cooler in favor of wc it would void the warranty but it may be worth it in this instance.


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> I think I'm just nervous, the only two things on this list that are very expensive in my opinion would be the monitor and VGA card and skimping on those in a gaming rig just makes no sense. As for the new card, all the Ultras seem to run uncomfortably hot but I guess that is to be expected, this one seems to run a little hotter due to factory OC. I'm assuming that if I remove the stock cooler in favor of wc it would void the warranty but it may be worth it in this instance.



It's hard to spend $3,000 on a PC - I understand that. I'm not a frivilous spender. I tried to keep my costs as low as possible, BUT, I didn't want to settle for less. Fortunately, my build didn't break me financially. 

It's up to you. You're gonna find budget builders that think you're insane for spending that kind of money on a PC. Like I said - it's a matter of opinion.


----------



## b3rt_d4ni3l

Well, if you are don't like spending too much, you can try cutting a few things to bring the cost down.

If I may suggest a few things, don't buy everything at one time. Watercooling set can wait until you are more comfortable with your computer rather than doing everything at the same time and ended up losing everything (because of improper set up).

It is true that new quad-core processor is coming out but that does not mean you have to get it to be able to play the latest games. Sure everyone wants the latest and the best but unfortunately sometimes our money couldn't keep up.

That being said, the build in my sig would be more than sufficient to play all the latest games in high settings if not semi-high. Otherwise, if you rather stick to your build then I would say couple of things need to be improved, namely:

- the RAM, DDR2-800 rams are fine. Get the one with 4-4-4-12 timing is you need performance. Example:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820145034

- SLI is not really needed. Performance gain is not that much but if you really want it that is fine.

- Intel Q6600 is fine for now and it should last you for 3-4 years I believe. As I said just now, you don't have to have the new quad core. They would also be quite expensive when they come out.

- Get Arctic Silver 5 rather than that thermal paste you listed in your build.

- For sound card, Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer would do just fine.

- For the OS, I would say just get the OEM version. The difference between OEM and retail is just the fact that retail will get you both 32-bit and 64-bit version of the OS. Nothing more, nothing less (retail got the pretty box too, I guess if you really wanna say  ). And looking at the fact that you only buying 2GB of RAM get the 32-bit OS then.

- I didn't see an optical drive listed other than the ASUS DVD-ROM. You are better off with a DVD burner I would say and one is enough unless you want to burn a DVD while playing games at the same time. 

- As for the watercooling setup, I would say hold off to that until you got all your parts assembled and working nicely. I understand that you need to dis-assemble it again when you need to install the watercooling setup and I am sure you want to skip the hassle.

- For the raptor, I leave it up to you. People can get into an all out debate about the price vs. performance of raptor and it will end up confusing you. So which ever you like.


You could use my rig in the sig for reference. It cost about roughly $1700 w/o MIR and the accessories like Physics card and keyboard and mouse.

Hope this helps you. 

Cheers, mate!

P.S. compare the prices between newegg and clubit because sometimes one would be cheaper than the other when shipping is taken into account.

P.S.S. Sorry for the extremely long post


----------



## Netskimmer

How did I know that 5 min after I made my purchases someone was going to make a new post? [sigh] Well, I have everything but the VGA water block, the Swift Tech website wasn't displaying the proper totals when I went to check out so I think I'll just get one somewhere else. I did switch to the Arctic 5 paste. We'll see how the E4500 OCs, if I don't like it I'll just upgrade as I planned to before. As or the rest of it, thanks for trying, it's just my luck.

I had thought about getting the system up and running before I install the water cooling. How much of a pain would it be to clean the old thermal paste/padding from the CPU if I run it with the stock cooler at first?


----------



## taylormsj

I havent read the whole thread but ive seen you looking at an ultra, id suggest getting the cheapest GTX, and try overcllocking it a lil bit, the performance gain cant be worth the extra money in my opinion


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> I had thought about getting the system up and running before I install the water cooling. How much of a pain would it be to clean the old thermal paste/padding from the CPU if I run it with the stock cooler at first?



Use an alcohol pad to clean the TP. 

I'm curious. After reading the lengthy post above, do you regret you're decision?


----------



## b3rt_d4ni3l

Netskimmer said:


> How did I know that 5 min after I made my purchases someone was going to make a new post? [sigh] Well, I have everything but the VGA water block, the Swift Tech website wasn't displaying the proper totals when I went to check out so I think I'll just get one somewhere else. I did switch to the Arctic 5 paste. We'll see how the E4500 OCs, if I don't like it I'll just upgrade as I planned to before. As or the rest of it, thanks for trying, it's just my luck.
> 
> I had thought about getting the system up and running before I install the water cooling. How much of a pain would it be to clean the old thermal paste/padding from the CPU if I run it with the stock cooler at first?




Sorry I typed slow... lol 
If you already buy it, then don't worry about it, mate! 
You're going to have one beast of a rig!!   

Cleaning the thermal paste is pretty easy. Make sure you use a lint-free cloth (like the one to clean for your glasses) and some alcohol (not the one you drink but something with high percentage... can't remember the number exactly)

Good luck putting it together!

P.S. Post the pics when you are done... I wanna see it.


----------



## mep916

b3rt_d4ni3l said:


> P.S. Post the pics when you are done... I wanna see it.



Ditto!


----------



## Netskimmer

I have good news! My bank wouldn't let paypal withdraw that much money from my account so newegg voided the purchase. I know I have far more than I spent in that account, I double checked to be sure after I got the email, but I rarely spend so much at once so I assume its a fraud protection kind of thing. The bank is closed for the day so I'll have to call the bank tomorrow and make sure but I can't imagine what else it could be. I'll probably have to just authorize such a large payment before I make the purchase. In the mean time lets look at the parts in question. 

I guess I'll just go with the eXtreme Gamer ed. like Bert suggests.

I'll stick with the raptor.

As for the OS, is there no advantage to getting the 64bit considering I'll have a 64bit CPU? I was also thinking in terms of future upgrades as 64bit will be inevitable at some point.

If I should avoid SLI, should I try to find a mobo that doesn't support it but is still good quality and good for OC or would the price difference between the two be negligible?

Should I go with a smaller power supply if I'm not going SLI down the road?

There is also a debate as to whether I should go with a GTX or Ultra. I've read that the ultras aren't just supped up GTXs, that they have better chip sets. Will an OC GTX give me enough performance to run games wide open? I don't mind paying extra but only if the cost is worth the performance increase and the games will actually use the better card to it's fullest so the performance is not going to waste.

Mem: OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227178
145.99
vs
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16820145034
98.00

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Allendale 2.2GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115031
$129.99
vs
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 Stepping Kentsfield 2.40GHz
http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A1938460
$267.99

P.S. the q6600 on clubit is oem so if I get that one I won't be able to build the system without installing the WC.


----------



## taylormsj

A GTX will run your games no probs, as far as im aware its identical, the same chip, as an ULTRA, although ultra is overclcoked more and maybe the stream processor overclcoked too. Id go for a cheaper GTX


----------



## b3rt_d4ni3l

Good for you, Netskimmer!! 

As of now, the only advantage of using 64-bit is the ability to use more than 3GB of RAM as a 32-bit OS can only recognize up to 3.12GB. Otherwise, there might be some compatibility issues also with 64-bit OS especially with older games.

Comparing the RAMs, I would get the Corsair one. The performance of DDR2 1066 RAM is not that significant compared to DDR2 800 RAM. And after the rebate, the Corsair RAM will come down a lot.

If you are going with q6600 processor, you would need to buy HSF. The one I have (Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro) is going for $19.99 in NewEgg.

You could hold off altogether for the watercooling if you want while saving some money.

As for not going for SLI, you have several options:
1. Keep the current mobo so that always have that option open whenever you see the need to go SLI.

2. Change your mobo to one of GIGABYTE's P35 mobo. The one I am talking about is the GA-P35-DS3R (the one that I have). Changing to this would bring down the total cost of your computer.

Another note about SLI is if you are going there thinking that you can just SLI when your GPU is not that strong to play games anymore, chances are there are a single GPU out there that can beat your SLI config. What I am saying is that judging at the rate new gadgets come out lately, by the time you need go SLI there are better GPU out there that can outperform your SLI config (kinda repeating myself there ). In the end, you ended up always buying 2 of the latest cards just to make sure your comp is capable of handling the games.

EDIT: Another long post from me...


----------



## oscaryu1

Netskimmer said:


> I have good news! My bank wouldn't let paypal withdraw that much money from my account so newegg voided the purchase. I know I have far more than I spent in that account, I double checked to be sure after I got the email, but I rarely spend so much at once so I assume its a fraud protection kind of thing. The bank is closed for the day so I'll have to call the bank tomorrow and make sure but I can't imagine what else it could be. I'll probably have to just authorize such a large payment before I make the purchase. In the mean time lets look at the parts in question.
> 
> I guess I'll just go with the eXtreme Gamer ed. like Bert suggests.
> 
> I'll stick with the raptor.
> 
> As for the OS, is there no advantage to getting the 64bit considering I'll have a 64bit CPU? I was also thinking in terms of future upgrades as 64bit will be inevitable at some point.
> 
> If I should avoid SLI, should I try to find a mobo that doesn't support it but is still good quality and good for OC or would the price difference between the two be negligible?
> 
> Should I go with a smaller power supply if I'm not going SLI down the road?
> 
> There is also a debate as to whether I should go with a GTX or Ultra. I've read that the ultras aren't just supped up GTXs, that they have better chip sets. Will an OC GTX give me enough performance to run games wide open? I don't mind paying extra but only if the cost is worth the performance increase and the games will actually use the better card to it's fullest so the performance is not going to waste.
> 
> Mem: OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227178
> 145.99
> vs
> CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
> http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16820145034
> 98.00
> 
> CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Allendale 2.2GHz
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115031
> $129.99
> vs
> Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 Stepping Kentsfield 2.40GHz
> http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A1938460
> $267.99
> 
> P.S. the q6600 on clubit is oem so if I get that one I won't be able to build the system without installing the WC.



Memory link down, and the price for the XMS2 is horrible!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145590 <- way cheaper, and same thing

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341002 <- Go with that power supply


----------



## mep916

taylormsj said:


> A GTX will run your games no probs, as far as im aware its identical, the same chip, as an ULTRA, although ultra is overclcoked more and maybe the stream processor overclcoked too. Id go for a cheaper GTX



Keep the Ultra. It's much faster than the GTX, and not much more expensive.


----------



## Netskimmer

The water cooling system is already paid for, everything else is up in the air though. If I'm sticking with 32bit should I get Vista or XP?

The ram and ps oscary suggests look good...

If I am not going SLI I don't see why I couldn't go with the gigabyte mobo as long as it can support the 45nm chips should I want to upgrade later and has descent oc ability.


----------



## oscaryu1

Netskimmer said:


> The water cooling system is already paid for, everything else is up in the air though. If I'm sticking with 32bit should I get Vista or XP?
> 
> The ram and ps oscary suggests look good...
> 
> If I am not going SLI I don't see why I couldn't go with the gigabyte mobo as long as it can support the 45nm chips should I want to upgrade later and has descent oc ability.



An P31-DS3L or P35-DS3L support 45nm processors and are at an great price right now! Your choice. Vista is getting better, and XP is the same.


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> If I'm sticking with 32bit should I get Vista or XP?



Get Vista. Get the OEM if you do not plan to install a 64 bit OS. Currently, the only advantage to a 64 bit OS is the ability to install above 3GB of memory. 



Netskimmer said:


> The ram and ps oscary suggests look good...



The RAM is good. Many argue that SLi is only useful when running resolutions above 24". You probably don't need it. If you're certain you do not want to run SLi, the PSU is good as well. OCZ is among the best.



Netskimmer said:


> I don't see why I couldn't go with the gigabyte mobo as long as it can support the 45nm chips should I want to upgrade later and has descent oc ability.



The Gigabyte board is highly recommended for those that do not want to run SLi. Click here for a good review of this board. It appears to OC pretty good. It does support 45nm chips.


----------



## oscaryu1

mep916 said:


> Get Vista. Get the OEM if you do not plan to install a 64 bit OS. Currently, the only advantage to a 64 bit OS is the ability to install above 3GB of memory.
> 
> 
> 
> The RAM is good. Many argue that SLi is only useful when running resolutions above 24". You probably don't need it. If you're certain you do not want to run SLi, the PSU is good as well. OCZ is among the best.
> 
> 
> 
> The Gigabyte board is highly recommended for those that do not want to run SLi. Click here for a good review of this board. It is appears to OC pretty good. It does support 45nm chips.




64bit - 128GB
32bit - 3.25GB

SLi is not needed, you could just get an 2900 or something MADE for bigger resolutions. 

Would you happen to have an link to that product mep? I'd like to see it.


----------



## Netskimmer

So Vista 32bit OEM, is there a reason to go above 2GB of ram at this point?

I think I'll go with the P35-DS3L mobo.

What do you guys think of this card? The specs on it make it look as though it could outperform the 8800 ultra, though I know specs can be decieving.

DIAMOND 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103044
$516.99


----------



## Netskimmer

The only OEM or 32-but version I can find is the "for system builders" version which says it cannot be transfered to another computer. What exactly does this mean? If I change my mobo or processor will it become useless?


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> So Vista 32bit OEM, is there a reason to go above 2GB of ram at this point?



Eventually, > 3GB will be necessary. If you want your rig to be "future proof," as Bert recommended, then go with a 64 bit OS. Am I contradicting myself? Not really. 2GB is suitable for all the latest games. However, if your goal is to allow your rig to last > 2 years, you should get an OEM 64 bit OS. When you add memory in the future, you will not have problems. 



Netskimmer said:


> What do you guys think of this card? The specs on it make it look as though it could outperform the 8800 ultra, though I know specs can be decieving.
> 
> DIAMOND 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103044
> $516.99



The 3DMark06 (graphics benchmarking application) record was broken - if not shattered - by this card in the record holder's configuration. It's faster than the Ultra, and compatable with your mobo's chipset. I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't buy this card.


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> The only OEM or 32-but version I can find is the "for system builders" version which says it cannot be transfered to another computer. What exactly does this mean? If I change my mobo or processor will it become useless?



For more information on this topic, click here. Scroll to the bottom of the page. 

For further info, view the CF poll that discusses OEM vs. Retail. The consensus on this forum suggests that OEM is far better than retail. Normally, I would disagree. However, in your situation, I think you should choose between 32 and 64 bit, and not concern yourself w/ significant hardware changes that could affect your product key. 

Read the license agreement carefully. Microsoft only requires that you purchase a piece of hardware W/ the software, and refuses to offer customer support for OEM license holders'. Product support is offered here, 10,000 other forums, and on the MS website. Don't let the lack of "technical support" prevent you from saving a few bucks. 

Finally, the most you would have to do, it seems, is call MS if you upgrade your mobo from the current build. You would most likely have to re-install Windows in order for the license to transfer - not to mention a successful install - to take place. Unfortunately, simply popping in your HD into the upgraded mobo will not allow you to successfully boot your old installation. 

As far as I know, changing the CPU will not trigger a reactivation. 

Good luck, Netskimmer.


----------



## maroon1

HD2900XT 1GB is slower than both 8800GTX and 8800Ultra

Here are some reviews
http://techreport.com/articles.x/12956
http://hardware.gotfrag.com/portal/story/38332/?spage=1

I would get 8800GTX since it cheaper and performs better
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127281


----------



## b3rt_d4ni3l

How's your build going?

For the GPU, stick with the 8800, up to you GTX or Ultra. If you want cheap then GTX otherwise Ultra is fine.

The RAM I mentioned, this one: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820145034
has a better timing (4-4-4-12) compared to the one oscaryu1 suggested which is 5-5-5-18. The 4-4-4-12 timing is usually preffered for gaming though having 5-5-5-18 does not mean you cannot game at all. And with the price difference of only $10 after rebate, I would go for the 4-4-4-12 timing RAM.

As for the OEM version of the OS, when you change your mobo you need to call MS to re-activate your copy of OS. Just tell them that your mobo failed on you or you just upgraded your mobo and need to re-install the OS. When your processor changes you don't need to do all this. Just replace it with the new one and you are good to go.

Good luck, mate!


----------



## Netskimmer

I suppose I'll just go with vista 64-bit oem and and the MSI 8800 Ultra and see what happens.

Ok, if 4-4-4-12 is better then I'll go with it.

Have any of you guys ordered anything from swiftech? I wanter to get a VGA water block for that ms1 8800 ultra since a lot of people said they had to underclock it to get stable performance out of it. I figured that since I am putting wc in this thing anyway it would be worth it in the long run to add the card to the loop, especially if it will keep me from hafting to underclock it. The problem is that when I go to check out it windows gives me a warning that there certificate is expired and that the name on the certificate is swiftech while while the name of the site is swiftnet, it changes halfway through the checkout process. This kind of made me nervous. Another problem is that my checkout total is $0.00 instead of the actual price. The whole thing makes me want to avoid them altogether and get Danger Dens vga water block but theirs is out of stock.


----------



## Netskimmer

b3rt_d4ni3l said:


> How's your build going?



Well, I'll have to authorize the bank to let me take that much out and I have to do it in person. By the time I go in there I won't have time to come back and make my purchases, so it will be tomorrow before I can buy the parts.

I was looking at this Koolance vga block http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16835127033, some say it doesn't fit right and will warp your card because it doesn't have a back plate and others say it fits right if you use the thermal pads it came with instead of paste and that it won't warp your card. Does anyone here have any actual experience with this block that can give me a definitive answer?


----------



## b3rt_d4ni3l

I have no experience with water cooling so I can't give you any advise on it. But as an alternative, check out www.xoxide.com they have quite a collection of water cooling parts that might interest you.

Sorry I didn't let you know this earlier. I just thought of the website while typing this post.


----------



## Netskimmer

Cool, they have the swiftech vga cooler I was looking at. I kind of wanted the danger den block because it is ported for 1/2" tubing where the swiftech block is ported for 1/4" and comes with adapters for 1/2" tubing. I'm not sure but I would think the more narrow ports on the vga block will bottleneck the wc system at the vid card.


----------



## mep916

This might help you out: Liquid Cooling 101


----------



## Netskimmer

Well, it looks like I'll be going with my original purchase after all. 

When I got home from work this morning at 3:30am (I work nights) I checked my email and found that newegg had received my payment and shipped my order!!!  WTF!!! The first email I got from them said that the order had been voided and that I would have to resubmit the order after correcting the problem with the bank. Apparently as soon as I got clearance from the bank paypal transfered the money and newegg filled the order. Not the end of the world but it still pisses me off.  What if I had come straight home from the bank and placed a new order or placed an order on Clubit for the Q6600 before getting that email? As soon as neweggs customer support center opens today I'm going to call and raise hell about this. In the mean time I have to go to a 9:00am business meeting, at which I will be a key speaker, I've been up since 11:00am yesterday, and now I'm too pissed to sleep. It's going to be an interesting day.


----------



## b3rt_d4ni3l

wow...

That was quite an experience you got there. I didn't know newegg would do that.
Anyway, good luck with your day, dude! Looks like you're gonna need it.


----------



## Netskimmer

My business meeting this morning went well. I didn't have time before work today to contact customer service and they won't be open again until Mon. I could e-mail them but I'd rather talk to someone in person. According to UPS the parts will be here on Tues but it will probably be sooner given neweggs track record regarding shipping. I'd don't know if I should just take the parts or if I should raise a stink about the whole thing. Do you think it would do any good?


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> My business meeting this morning went well. I didn't have time before work today to contact customer service and they won't be open again until Mon. I could e-mail them but I'd rather talk to someone in person. According to UPS the parts will be here on Tues but it will probably be sooner given neweggs track record regarding shipping. I'd don't know if I should just take the parts or if I should raise a stink about the whole thing. Do you think it would do any good?



After the adjustments to your build, how much did you end up saving?


----------



## Netskimmer

About $300, the question is will they accept responsibility for this?


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> About $300, the question is will they accept responsibility for this?



Well, if worst comes to worst, you paid 12% more than what the new configuration would have cost. You'll have everything on Tuesday. That's not _too_ bad. Best case scenario, I suppose, would be a refund and cancellation of your order. Hopefully, newegg is available either by email, or over the phone this weekend. If it doesn't work out - it still works out. You know what I mean? 

However, I do agree that either PayPal or newegg should be held accountable. PayPal has a notorious reputation for bad customer service. The payment went through, right? Don't completely leave PayPal out of the equation. Maybe your bank is partly responsible. Who knows? Anyway, best of luck this weekend. 

The build that never ends...

EDIT: On the first page of this thread, is that all the stuff (from newegg) scheduled to be delivered on Tuesday?


----------



## Netskimmer

Everything but the monitor, it is estimated at Wed.


----------



## Netskimmer

Ok, I probably won't hear from Newegg until at least tomorrow so I 've been going over my options depending on their response.

A) They void the sale like they were supposed to and I RMA the stuff back to them and receive a full refund including tax and shipping charges.

Call me jaded but I don't really see this happening. It's possible but I'm not expecting it. If it does happen though I'll just order the new set of parts and everything will be resolved.

B) They refuse any responsibility and tell me that I will have to return their merchandise pursuant to the return policies applicable to each individual product ordered.

I see this as much more likely and thus far I have thought of three possible options.

1) I accept that things didn't go as they should have and just keep the parts and build the rig.

2) I RMA the parts I don't want and pay the %15 restocking fee.

3) I refuse the shipment when the UPS driver gets here.

Option 1 is pretty self explanatory, the other two options on the other hand...

If I go with option 2 the greatest restraint on time is the CPU which must be returned within 7 days of invoice.  I received the official invoice from new egg via email on Oct 27 so as long as I get the stuff on its way by next Saturday I should be alright. As for the restocking fee, it will cost about $171 to return all the hardware in the proposed changes we discussed which wouldn't end up saving me too much especially considering the all the trouble. Since most of the changes were made to improve the cost/performance ratio of the setup this would generally be counter-productive. The only exception was the CPU, If I RMA the one their sending me it will cost about $20 for the restocking fee. Do you guys think it would be worth it to RMA it and get the better processor?

As for option 3, I don't know if it would work. I know their return FAQ says that Bulk are non refundable so you would have to refuse it from the driver with would result in a full refund including tax and shipping but that was under the "bulk item returns" section so I don't know if it would work for the other stuff.


----------



## mep916

IMO, I think you should keep everything. The retail Vista Ultimate gives you both the 32 bit and 64 bit OSes, and possibly a "stronger" license key. The RAM is great. The original configuration was great, only a little more expensive.


----------



## Netskimmer

The only things that I think may have been mistakes are the CPU and RAM.

Many of the reviews say the the ram runs hot and needs active cooling, especially if it is going to be OC'ed. I'm not to worried about the timing as from what I've read there is little performance boost between 4-4-4-12 and 5-5-5-15 timing when it comes to high res gaming and some have said that it will run stable at 4-4-4-12. So I don't think it is a big deal, at least not enough to warrant being upset about buying it. 

I'm afraid that the CPU will be too much of a bottleneck, even if it is only is for a few months.

As you said, the rest of the stuff is just more expensive, at worst they will perform as well as the other parts if not better.


----------



## Netskimmer

Ok, I've spoken with Newegg and all I have to do is receive the packages from UPS and generate RMAs for the items that I don't want. They were kind enough to wave the %15 restock fee too.  So I need to make a decision on what to keep and what to return. Here are the items in question and their prices and my thoughts thus far:

mem:

cur:
OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227178
155.99

new: 
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820145034
$98.00

Might as well go with the Corsair it seems to have better reviews.


CPU:

cur:
Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Allendale 2.2GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115031
$129.00

new:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 Stepping Kentsfield 2.40GHz
http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A1938460
$269.99

Might as well go with the Q6600, the longer I can go without needing to upgrade CPU the cheaper/faster the one I replace it with will be.


mobo: 

cur:
EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188013
$209.99

new: 
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059
$94.99

I think I'll go with the P35 as I keep hearing that the 680i chipsets have trouble with 4GB or more of mem which will be a necessity eventually and I don't have a real need for SLI.


power:

cur:
PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad EPS12V 750W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009
$179.99

new: 
OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341002
$139.99

Not sure about this one, I want a healthy supply of power since I will be using it to power OC'ed equipment, a power hungry VGA card and a WC system. Do you think the 700w will be able to handle it?


os:

cur:
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate DVD - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116140
$319.99

new:
Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Ultimate - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116215
$179.99

I'm thinking of sticking with the retail version as 34-bit seems best for now but 64-bit will be necessary sooner or later and buying them in one box would be cheaper than getting them separately.


sound:

cur:
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102005
$145.99

new:
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006
$80.99

Would I see any increase in performance with the Fatal1ty edition? Even if the answer is yes I doubt it would be worth an extra $65, but if I'm wrong please let me know as I don't mind spending the money if it would be worth it.

cur:
1,140.95

new:
863.95

diff:
$277.00


----------



## b3rt_d4ni3l

Your new decision is good. I would stick with the PSU you have right now (I mean the Silencer Quad 750W) mainly because it is stable and it performs good though cable management is irritating sometimes. But I am sure you will manage. Just tuck it behind the hard drive cage or under the DVD-drive or something.

EDIT: I noticed that the CPU is OEM. Have you ordered the watercooling set yet? I assume you are putting a waterblock on the CPU, right? Just wondering because I didn't see any heatsink on the list.


----------



## Netskimmer

Funny you should mention that ,  the water cooling set should be here tomorrow but I've just noticed that the OEM chip on the list is sold out so I will be getting the retail version. It's a few bucks more but it means that I can get the system running before I install the WC system. The WC system I ordered does include a CPU water block though given what I've read about the VGA card I purchased, I am strongly considering getting a VGA block as well. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my first choice would be the Danger Den DD-8800GTX, they say it is designed for both the GTX and Ultra, but they are out of stock. The Swiftech' Stealth VGA block reviews well but I am afraid it will bottleneck the coolant flow because the system I ordered uses 1/2" tubing and equipment and the Swiftech' Stealth only has 1/4" ports ,though it comes with 1/2" adapters. I'm hoping someone with WC experience can give me some guidance here. HA! The FedEx truck delivering my WC kit showed up while I was typing this! I didn't realize just how big 1/2" tubing was. Good thing I got a case with a lot of room.


----------



## mep916

A picture says 1,000 words. 

The photo below is the Cosmos using 1/2 tubing for the WC setup. Quad Silencer 750W PSU and the same board you purchased. As you can see, you want to run all the cables behind the mobo. I've read that it's a bit difficult to reset the case panel behind the mobo. Flatten the cables against the wall, without bending or pinching, of course. 

You're radiator should be mounted above the mobo, inside the case. I'm assuming the reservoir will be affixed inside an external 5.25" drive bay. The pump is attached to the bottom of the case. Take your time, and everything should be hella clean

I'm really excited for you! I'm glad everything worked out. Be sure to post some pics when you're finished.


----------



## Netskimmer

mep916 said:


> A picture says 1,000 words.
> 
> I'm really excited for you! I'm glad everything worked out. Be sure to post some pics when you're finished.



About that, I can't upload pics directly from my PC so I'll have to get them online somehow and then link then into the post. Do you know of any site that will allow me to upload/store pics for free?


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> About that, I can't upload pics directly from my PC so I'll have to get them online somehow and then link then into the post. Do you know of any site that will allow me to upload/store pics for free?



I use photobucket.com.


----------



## b3rt_d4ni3l

Another alternative would be imageshack.us


----------



## Netskimmer

Cool, I took a picture of my WC kit but I don't have time to mess with uploading it as I have to leave for work but I'll try to get it uploaded when I get home tomorrow. I'll keep responding to posts as best as I can while at work but most of my time is spent away from the office so I have to just "pop in" read/post and "pop out" as time allows me. I'd like to get the replacement parts ordered tomorrow so if anyone has anything to add about the list please try to post before 2:00pm tomorrow. Thanks.


----------



## Netskimmer

My first package from Newegg came today while I was at work, hooray! It contained the mouse, G8800Ultra, RAM, and Arctic 5 paste. As of this post I intend to keep everything but the RAM. I am posting pics of my water cooling kit, the mouse, and the G8800 packaging. I don't intend to open any packaging on anything I get from Newegg until I've finalized the list of things I'm going to RMA.

Here are the major components of the water cooling kit, reservoir, fan, radiator, CPU water block and pump:





Here is a closeup of the CPU water block:





And a closeup of the radiator:





Here is the gaming mouse:





Here are some pics of the G880 Ultra box:









I can't wait to get all the parts and start putting this thing together. Although it will be many days before that happens as I have not yet ordered the replacement parts.

EDIT:
BTW I posted the specs for my current rig in my sig. I built this rig 4 long years ago, it cost me about half what this one will, the P4 cost almost as much as the Q6600 does today. I did replace my 128Mb 9600XT about a year after I built her but beyond that and a new HDD she is as I built her back in '03. She was a great rig back in her day and I have not had one single problem with this rig since I powered it up for the first time! Not one dead component with the exception of the HDD, it went bad about 6 months ago, but still, thats not a bad track record if you ask me. Thats why I'm keeping this rig completely intact, that and most of the parts are too old to go into a high end gaming rig anyway.  She may lag a bit when I play FEAR but she's as dependable a rig as I've ever seen!


----------



## Netskimmer

Sorry to post back to back but apparently sigs aren't applied retroactively so if I didn't post again you would not be able to see my sig.

EDIT:

It is now 12:00pm by my clock and I'd like to start purchasing the last of the parts at 2:00pm so if anyone has any though, comments, suggestions, ect, now is the time. As of now the only parts of the rig I plan to RMA are the following:

OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227178
155.99
in favor of:
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820145034
$98.00

Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Allendale 2.2GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115031
$129.00
In favor of:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 Stepping Kentsfield 2.40GHz
http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A1938460
$269.99

EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188013
$209.99
In favor of:
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059
$94.99

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102005
$145.99
In favor of:
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006
$80.99


----------



## Netskimmer

Ok, new parts are bought and payed for, they should be here by the end of the week.  The remainder of my parts should be here by the time I get home tomorrow, with the possible exception of the monitor, so I should be ready to RMA the necessary parts before work tomorrow. I got the retail Q6600 G0 because it was only a few bucks more and it will allow me to get everything up and running before I tackle the WC project.


One last component question, I am restricted to dial-up due to were I live, should I just get a modem for the new system for OS/Game updates and patches or could I network my new/current systems together? That way I wouldn't need to install Anti-virus software and such on the new system as all data would be filtered though my current rig and its protection software. Would that work?I'm assuming since both mobos have RJ-45 ports that I could run a cable between the two and configure XP Pro and Vista Ultimate to communicate without third party software.

Here is an updated list of all the components. (Prices may have changed slightly since I originally recorded them) Will post pics as parts arrive.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 Stepping Kentsfield 2.40GHz
http://www.clubit.com/product_detail...temno=A1938460
$267.99

MSI NX8800Ultra-T2D768E-HD-OC GeForce 8800Ultra 768MB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127288
$594.99

VGA water block: TBA

Mobo:  GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128050
$129.99

Mem:  CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820145034
$98.00

Sound:  Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006
$80.99

Cooling: Danger Den water cooling Power Kit
http://www.dangerden.com/store/produ...3&cat=2&page=1
$163.28

Power: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad (Black) EPS12V 750W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817703009
$179.99

Case: COOLER MASTER COSMOS 1000 RC-1000-KSN1-GP Black/ Silver Steel ATX Full Tower
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119138
$199.99

HHD: Western Digital Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB 10,000 RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA150
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136011
$184.99

Mon: SAMSUNG 245BW Black High Glossy 24" 5ms DVI Widescreen
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824001234
$489.99

OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate DVD - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116140
$319.99

Misc: 
ASUS Black 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA DVD-ROM Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827135143
$20.99

Logitech MX518
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16826104178
$39.99


----------



## b3rt_d4ni3l

Looks like your comp is looking good! 

Good luck putting everything together. Post back here in case you have a problem.

Cheers!!


----------



## Netskimmer

Well, good news and bad.

Good News:
All the parts I wanted to send back to Newegg are on their way.

My monitor came today. I have it hooked up to my current rig and it seems to be functioning properly, no dead pixels that I can see.

My new Q6600 G0 is on its way from ClubIt.

My new Mobo, RAM, and Sound Card from Newegg are on their way and estimated to arrive today.

Bad News:

FedEx tracking doesn't estimate arrival of the processor until Monday.  I was hoping to get all the parts and put this thing together this weekend.

Someone over at the "Computer Cases, Power Supplies and Cooling" forum says he doesn't think that my WC kit will be sufficient to cool both my CPU and VGA card. 
Here is a link to that thread:
http://www.computerforum.com/101224-water-cooling-question.html

[sigh] Will this build ever end?


----------



## Netskimmer

So, since all my components except the CPU will be here on Friday, should I go ahead and start installing the other stuff. I usually start by putting the CPU on the mobo before its in the case so I'll have plenty of room to work then I put the mobo in the case and go on from there. I'm not sure if its a good idea to put the mobo in the case before installing the CPU. I don't see any reason off-hand why it would be a problem considering the ample room this case provides. I figure I could install the mobo, PSU, optical and HDD, and get most of the cable management done, then when the CPU gets here all I'll have to do is drop it in and install the RAM, VGA and sound cards.

I still haven't heard any opions on the modem vs. network issue. Would I need any third party software to get the two to communicate or do I just need to run a cable between the two and set up the connection?


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> So, since all my components except the CPU will be here on Friday, should I go ahead and start installing the other stuff. I usually start by putting the CPU on the mobo before its in the case so I'll have plenty of room to work then I put the mobo in the case and go on from there. I'm not sure if its a good idea to put the mobo in the case before installing the CPU. I don't see any reason off-hand why it would be a problem considering the ample room this case provides. I figure I could install the mobo, PSU, optical and HDD, and get most of the cable management done, then when the CPU gets here all I'll have to do is drop it in and install the RAM, VGA and sound cards.



That sounds like a good plan. Are you 100% w/ your WC setup? In other words, are you comfortable w/ the kit you purchased?



Netskimmer said:


> I still haven't heard any opions on the modem vs. network issue. Would I need any third party software to get the two to communicate or do I just need to run a cable between the two and set up the connection?



Is your internet connection on the old computer dial up? I'm not sure how you would connect the two PC's. I'm pretty sure, however, that you need anti virus software on both, regardless of the type of connection. 

Where do you live? Are you sure you can't get high speed internet access?


----------



## Netskimmer

mep916 said:


> That sounds like a good plan. Are you 100% w/ your WC setup? In other words, are you comfortable w/ the kit you purchased?



I am sure it can handle the CPU, the question remains as to whether it can handle both the CPU and VGA. Worst case scenario is that I'll have to just WC the CPU and get a good air cooler for the VGA card.



mep916 said:


> Is your internet connection on the old computer dial up? I'm not sure how you would connect the two PC's. I'm pretty sure, however, that you need anti virus software on both, regardless of the type of connection.
> 
> Where do you live? Are you sure you can't get high speed internet access?



Believe me, if I could get highspeed I would. The only highspeed option is satalite and I would have to make a long term commitment and pay $60+ a month to get it. My current setup uses dial-up. My Anti-Virus software is licensed for up to 3 PCs so I can just install it one both. I thought it would be cool to connect them because it would let me have access to all the stuff on my current system from the new one without using its resources or storage capacity. That and I think it would be cool to try regardless.


----------



## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> I am sure it can handle the CPU, the question remains as to whether it can handle both the CPU and VGA. Worst case scenario is that I'll have to just WC the CPU and get a good air cooler for the VGA card.



Cool. I read your watercooling thread. You could go with the radiator and pump Max PC used. You'd have to return your kit. I'm not sure if you reconsidered that. Just thought I'd mention it. 



Netskimmer said:


> The only highspeed option is satalite and I would have to make a long term commitment and pay $60+ a month to get it.



Yeah. I wouldn't consider that an option either. 



Netskimmer said:


> My current setup uses dial-up. My Anti-Virus software is licensed for up to 3 PCs so I can just install it one both. I thought it would be cool to connect them because it would let me have access to all the stuff on my current system from the new one without using its resources or storage capacity. That and I think it would be cool to try regardless.



Sure! It could be possible. I PM'd a member of this forum that is good w/ networking. Maybe he'll help ya out. 

Almost there, Netskimmer. Again, best of luck.


----------



## tlarkin

you can do what is internet sharing if your PCs are all networked either by wifi or by a switch.  However, internet sharing through dial will be ungodly slow.


----------



## Netskimmer

tlarkin said:


> you can do what is internet sharing if your PCs are all networked either by wifi or by a switch.  However, internet sharing through dial will be ungodly slow.



So there is no way to get the two to communicate directly?


----------



## tlarkin

Netskimmer said:


> So there is no way to get the two to communicate directly?



What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

I gather you have multiple PCs in your house and they all use dial up?  Correct?  Well, you can run the internet set up wizard on your machine and configure it to share the dial up connection.  Then you can have it dial out and connect to the ISP.  Then network your machines, and run that wizard again and it will apply the network settings to share the connection from the machine that is already connected.  So, all traffic is tunneled through the one machine that is connected.  So, technically if a virus were to hit you while online (extremely rare, like winning the lottery rare with dial up) it would hit the machine that is connected to the internet first.  Which would have your A/V software on it.  Then the machines that are sharing the connection are technically behind it.  Basically in a certain perspective you are setting up one dial up machine to act as a gateway for your other machines to connect to the internet.  Mind you it will be extremely slow, but yes it is possible.  This does require your machines to be networked.


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## Netskimmer

I gues I had two goals. First would be to netword the two PC together so that I could access the programs and data on my old system from my new one. Second to allow my new system to access the internet through my old system. However if it is going to be slow (as if dial-up wasn't slow enough) then I won't worry about the second option. But I would like to be able to access the files and possibly the programs on my old rig from my new one. Maybe something like a remote desktop setup.


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## tlarkin

Just network them.  A switch and a few patch cables aren't expensive and most PCs have NICs built in.  If not you can get a PCI NIC for like 5 dollars probably.

Just try the internet sharing and see how slow it is.  You have to realize I have a 20Mbit broadband connection, so dial up no matter what is going to seem ridiculously slow to me.  If you try it and like it, then use it.  If not, hey at least you know its not worth the hassle and keep one system online.

What OSes are on your machines, I can only assume they are both windows?  What versions?


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## Netskimmer

I am running XP pro 32-bit on my current rig and the new one will be either Vista Ultimate 32-bit or 64. probably start out at 32 since I won't have >4Gb of RAM.

How can I tell if they have NIC built in? I know they both have RJ-45 ports on them. My current mobo is a ASUS P4P800 478 Intel 865PE and the new one will have a GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L


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## tlarkin

NICs take RJ45 ends, so they have NICs


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## Netskimmer

So I would need something along these lines?

Zonet ZFS3008 10/100Mbps Ethernet Switch 8 x RJ45 1K MAC Address Table 1Mega bits Buffer Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817130101
$14.99

offspring C5LG-07-B 7 ft. Cat 5E Gray Network Cable
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812179011
$4.99 x2 $10.00


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## tlarkin

those will work


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## Netskimmer

Cool, I'll see if I can't find the CAT5e patch cords locally as it would cost about as much to ship as it would to buy.  Thanks for the help.

As for the rest of the build, I added a RAM active cooling unit to the list,  CORSAIR CMXAF1 Fans http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835704001 . I don't know if it would be necessary but keeping the RAM cooler is always a good thing regardless. At the very least it shouldn't hurt anything. Haven't gotten a tracking number yet but I'm in no hurry, even if it doesn't get here before the system is ready to boot up it won't kill my system (I hope) to run it a few days without it.


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> As for the rest of the build, I added a RAM active cooling unit to the list,  CORSAIR CMXAF1 Fans I don't know if it would be necessary but keeping the RAM cooler is always a good thing regardless. At the very least it shouldn't hurt anything. Haven't gotten a tracking number yet but I'm in no hurry, even if it doesn't get here before the system is ready to boot up it won't kill my system (I hope) to run it a few days without it.



Yeah, I own the same fan. I'm sure it helps. Like you said, it definitely doesn't hurt to have it.


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## oscaryu1

Netskimmer said:


> Cool, I'll see if I can't find the CAT5e patch cords locally as it would cost about as much to ship as it would to buy.  Thanks for the help.
> 
> As for the rest of the build, I added a RAM active cooling unit to the list,  CORSAIR CMXAF1 Fans http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835704001 . I don't know if it would be necessary but keeping the RAM cooler is always a good thing regardless. At the very least it shouldn't hurt anything. Haven't gotten a tracking number yet but I'm in no hurry, even if it doesn't get here before the system is ready to boot up it won't kill my system (I hope) to run it a few days without it.



I highly doubt you'll need that... except for looks , but still... It's not really needed.


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## Netskimmer

Parts from Newegg came today, RAM cooler has shipped. All I need now to get this thing up and running is my CPU from ClubIT. In the mean time I'll begin assembly as we discussed earlier. I'll post pics of my progress. 

What kind of software should I get to test the stability/performance of this new rig? I suppose I should get a copy of memtest, I had one once but I don't know were it is. Should I get a benchmarking prog like 3dMark?


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> Parts from Newegg came today, RAM cooler has shipped. All I need now to get this thing up and running is my CPU from ClubIT. In the mean time I'll begin assembly as we discussed earlier. I'll post pics of my progress.
> 
> What kind of software should I get to test the stability/performance of this new rig? I suppose I should get a copy of memtest, I had one once but I don't know were it is. Should I get a benchmarking prog like 3dMark?



Definitely 3DMark06. Futuremark just released PCMARK Vantage. That application tests your whole PC. I like it. You can check it out for yourself. 

You should run Prime95 after you configure the FSB and VCore for the processor. That program stresses the CPU, and tests stability. Run the program for 24 hours. Most overclocking guides will provide you w/ more detailed advice w/ regard to that subject.

Search the forum for advice on the best CPU temp monitoring software. There's differences in opinion. I still haven't found one I like completely. CPU-Z is an other useful tool.


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## Netskimmer

Some of the standoffs marked in the case instructions for ATX form factor boards do not line up with mt mobo I can't remember but I think this is normal since all ATX mobos are not the same shape but I wanted to be sure. One of the standoffs is underneath the mobo, I removed it for fear that it might contact something it shouldn't.


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## lovely?

yeah that is not uncommon, i had to do the same thing


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## Netskimmer

Ok, this is going to be a long post so bear with me. I'm in the process of connecting the various components to the mobo and PSU.

A have a few questions about connecting the case wires to the mobo. There is a bundle of wires coming from the front panel of the case, I found the array of pins on the mobo that they hook to but I can't remember some things and there are a few connectors that I'm not familiar with. Regarding the two prong connectors for the HDD LED, power switch ect, the color wire is the hot and the white wire is the ground correct? Along with the reset, powers switch, the is a pin set on the mobo that I don't have a connector for labeled "msg" what is it?

There are also four cables with black 10-pin connectors, each one having a plug in one of the pin holes, I'm assuming this is so you can't connect it to the wrong set of pins. Two of the cables are marked "USB" and fit onto the F_USB pin sets on the mobo, obviously they are for the USB ports on the front panel. There is another cable that is wired differently than the USB cables but has the plug in the same pin-hole and it is marked "1394" where the heck does this one go?

The last cable has two connectors, the first is marked HD Audio and its plug configuration matches the F_AUDIO pin set in the mobo. I'm assuming that it connects the headset and mic ports on the front panel to the mobo but there is a plug that branches off from that one that is labeled "AC`97" and I don't see any pin-sets that it could connect too.


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## oscaryu1

1394 - Firewire. Some motherboards only has USB. IE - My IP-95 has USB, but not onboard Firewire. Ignore it if you do not have it.

You probably need to find an 4pin place to connect the sound part...


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## Netskimmer

I went ahead and installed the VGA and Sound cards since I'll need to take them into account while trying to manage the cables. Here are some pics:

Here is the empty case:






Here is my mobo in the case (ingore the standoffs to the side of the mobo, I removed them shortly after taking the photo.) :





Here is a shot of the raptor and the little black bag it came in:





Here is a shot of the almost complete system. The only things missing are the CPU which I haven't gotten yet and the RAM. I didn't see a reason to install the RAM just yet as it might get in the way when I try to install the CPU. I could probably do a better job regarding cable management but I've been up for 20 hours and I don't feel like messing with it anymore, at least until I get some sleep. I would also like to mention that cable management is not as easy in this case as one might think. There is VERY little room behind the mobo tray and running cables across from behind is limited by a bar that sits almost flush with the removable panel. In any case (no pun intended) I don't plan on messing with it anymore until I get some sleep.





One last pic, this one shows the VGA hood, I'm assuming that as long as I am air cooling the VGA card that it would be beneficial to leave the hood on.






I have some good news, FedEx now says that the CPU should be delivered sometime today!! So I'm going to take a little cat nap and hopefully the CPU will get here and I can try to get this thing running. 

Thanks for the software suggestions, I'll look into acquiring the necessary progs when I get up, for now I'm just too dang tired.


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## oscaryu1

VERY NICE cable management, as with the computer!

Even the Raptor looks great! (Never seen an transparent HDD )


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## Netskimmer

oscaryu1 said:


> VERY NICE cable management, as with the computer!
> 
> Even the Raptor looks great! (Never seen an transparent HDD )



Thanks, I should be sleeping but I just got woken up by a call from FedEx wanting directions. Now they are saying that it will be Tuesday before they can deliver it The weird thing is that they claimed they could not find me but when I asked about the possibility of picking it up they said that the package was at there station. Their station is almost two hours away and he said the driver just left so my question is how could they not find me if the guy hasn't even come out here yet? It looks like they just decided they didn't want to drive all the way out here on a Saturday so they are just going to hold it until Tuesday!!! As much as I want to get this thing up and running, I can't justify a 100 mile round trip just to get the package. 

What is it with this build? I've never had so much trouble before.


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## oscaryu1

Hmm, I've had almost the same experience as you before. They said that my zip was "Cologne, Texas" instead of "Victoria, Texas". I mean, how can there be 2 towns/cities in the same zipcode?!?! Somehow UPS got almost the whole address messed up (two times with RMA'ing with compaq...)...

The one day I entered 77901 into the Ebay calculator...

"Shipping to Cologne, Texas - $xx.xx"


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## Netskimmer

The thing is FedEx has been out here plenty of times without any trouble. On their tracking site is says "shipping exception, could not locate recipient." which is a load because the guy admitted that the driver left the package at their station BEFORE he went on his route. So they "couldn't find me" hours before they even tried to deliver it to me?


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## oscaryu1

Netskimmer said:


> The thing is FedEx has been out here plenty of times without any trouble. On their tracking site is says "shipping exception, could not locate recipient." which is a load because the guy admitted that the driver left the package at their station BEFORE he went on his route. So they "couldn't find me" hours before they even tried to deliver it to me?



Hmm, FedEx has been an great shipping company in my opinion. I have never gotten something missing or damaged...

Maybe it's just your FedEx station?


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## Netskimmer

Maybe there was a good reason for the delay, or maybe I just got an SOB who doesn't care enough to give his job 100%. Who knows.

EDIT:

I have a few questions about the programs discussed earlier in this thread. 

My old copy of memtest had to be put on a floppy and the PC had to be booted with said floppy, this could be a problem as I did not include a floppy drive in this build, I assumed anything a floppy could do a usb memstick could be better. can I put this on a CD and boot from that?

3DMark06 does not have DX10 support, since all of my hardware and software will be running DX10, will this affect my score?

Would it be worth the money to get advanced version of 3DMark06 or should I stick with the free version?


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## mep916

Netskimmer said:


> My old copy of memtest had to be put on a floppy and the PC had to be booted with said floppy, this could be a problem as I did not include a floppy drive in this build, I assumed anything a floppy could do a usb memstick could be better. can I put this on a CD and boot from that?



Yes, you can use a CD. Download the .ISO image file. Unzip the file, and use a program like Magic ISO or Nero to burn the program to a CD. You will boot from the CD as you would a floppy. 



Netskimmer said:


> 3DMark06 does not have DX10 support, since all of my hardware and software will be running DX10, will this affect my score?



Your score will not be affected by the lack of DX10 support.



Netskimmer said:


> Would it be worth the money to get advanced version of 3DMark06 or should I stick with the free version?



The advanced version allows you to compare your results to systems similar to yours. You can also configure (customize) the tests and save your tests to Excel and other formats. Personally, I prefer the Advanced version.


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## Netskimmer

My processor finally came!!! I had them deliver it to me at work so they couldn't claim they could not find me. So as soon as I get home I'll pop it in and see what happens. One concern I do have is that I put the CPU in my car so I don't forget it and its supposed to get down into the 20's tonight. Do you think it will affect the CPU to be in such a cold environment? Should I let it warm up a bit when I get home before I put it in and fire it up?


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## diduknowthat

Colder the better, I doubt it'll get cold enough in your car. How do you think those people with liquid nitrogen overclocks?


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## oscaryu1

Netskimmer said:


> My processor finally came!!! I had them deliver it to me at work so they couldn't claim they could not find me. So as soon as I get home I'll pop it in and see what happens. One concern I do have is that I put the CPU in my car so I don't forget it and its supposed to get down into the 20's tonight. Do you think it will affect the CPU to be in such a cold environment? Should I let it warm up a bit when I get home before I put it in and fire it up?



The colder the better! The colder, the more you can overclock! (Try hitting an good OC at midnight )


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## Netskimmer

Ok, I got the CPU installed and got into BIOS. Took a look around and everything seems to be going well. The ambient room temp in my bedroom is about 26C. Hot I know but there is little I can do about it. The system temp is holding steady at 57C and the CPU is steady at 43C. These temps are at idle of coarse as all I can get into at this point is the BIOS. Should I run memtest on it as it is or install the OS first? The system recognizes both sticks just fine.

I have purchased both 3Dmark06 and PCMARK Vantage but I chose the download option and I have dial-up. Does anyone have any suggestions on were I might find a broadband connection to download these? I wonder if my local library has broadband and would allow me to DL them?

BTW, here are some pics of the finished stock setup:


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## mep916

As far as MemTest, I would get the OS installed first. That program is usually used for troubleshooting purposes; however, it wouldn't hurt to run it after the OS is installed. Let the program run overnight. 

As you know, the Futuremark programs are kinda big. If you can, find a broadband connection and download the applications to a 2GB USB Drive. 

So far, everything looks pretty good.  

Overall, how do you like the Cosmos? I've heard that bar on the side of the case, behind the mobo, is a real problem.


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## Netskimmer

mep916 said:


> So far, everything looks pretty good.
> 
> Overall, how do you like the Cosmos? I've heard that bar on the side of the case, behind the mobo, is a real problem.



Do you think the temps are ok, they seemed a little high to me.

Not only the bar but there really isn't much room behind the mobo ether. In fact, even one molex connector back there keeps the cover from latching properly. I guess things would have been alot easier if my PSU cords were long enough to run behind there and come back in near where they were needed. I even tried to press them flat against the mobo tray with double sided tape, but the cover still wouldn't latch. The bar you mentioned makes running cables of any kind from the mobo area to the HDD/Optical drive area all but impossible. In hind site it might have been better to go with a modular PSU.

I also had a little trouble finding a place for the pump to sit for my WC system. In the article you showed me it looks like they removed the large intake fan and put it there but since I'll be air cooling my VGA card for the time being I didn't think that would be wise as the fan is designed at a slight angle to blow cool intake air onto the VGA card. I've tried mounting it on top of the HDD bays with double sided tape (see the first pic in my last post) I'll see how that turns out when I put the WC system in. I'll probably hold off on that until I get everything else up  a running.


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## mep916

The system temp seems to be a little high, but the CPU temp is probably normal since you're using a stock cooler. 

I'm really dissapointed w/ the trouble you're having w/ the cable management stuff. It seems that the owners' of this case are having mixed results. 

I seen this "tip" in the Newegg Customer Reviews. Don't know if it will help:

*Manufacturer Response: A tip for running your wires in the back is to make sure that they are not all bunched up together (obviously). Try to utilize both oval openings when running the wires in the back. Having 3 sets of wires running flat in the back makes it a lot easier to close, instead of all of them together.*

Seems like it's easier said than done. 

Are you using an aftermarket cooler on the Ultra? If so, you may not need that intake fan on the bottom.


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## Netskimmer

I had the wires all spread out and placed flat using double sided tape but I still couldn't get the back panel to close. I'l see if I can't get some pics of others who have this case and see if maybe I just didn't have something placed properly.

I am currently useing the stock VGA cooler, I wanted to see if it could handle the card under load before deciding if I want to get a water block and potentially needing to upgrade several of my WC components. I also would like a baseline reading with the stock cooler should I decide to water cool it.


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## chrislo

Just curious, when you guys build your rigs how long do you use them before you start to upgrade? Then how long before it gets so outdated you build a new machine from scratch (All new parts including the case and power supply)?


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## mep916

chrislo said:


> Just curious, when you guys build your rigs how long do you use them before you start to upgrade? Then how long before it gets so outdated you build a new machine from scratch (All new parts including the case and power supply)?



No offense, but that's kinda off topic. You should start a new thread on that subject in the Desktop Computers section. You'll probably get a ton of responses!


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## chrislo

mep916 said:


> No offense, but that's kinda off topic. You should start a new thread on that subject in the Desktop Computers section. You'll probably get a ton of responses!



Very well.


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## Netskimmer

I think my current WC system is a bust, if I mount the rad in the logical place it sits right on top of the water block and even if I could fit the thing in there the screws it came with won't thread! I may try to return the kit, though I think it is unlikely they will let me as I had already cut the tubing and I scratched the apparently very delicate paint on the rad just trying to see if it would fit in various places.

my case has ports for external cooling units so I thought I'd ask if anyone knows of a good external cooler that will keep an OC'ed q6600 and G8800 Ultra cool. I've heard some people say that a good air cooler can do just as good a job, is there any truth to this? I find it hard to believe, especially in my case considering the high ambient temps in my room. 

I'm going to ask this question in the cooling forum as well.


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## Netskimmer

I have successfully installed Vista Ultimate 32-bit as well as the drivers for my vid and sound cards. The vid card had its own utility software that lets you monitor the card temp and at idle the thing runs at 73C! Thats after I installed Riva Tuner and manually set the fan speed  to fixed 100% I think I'm going to have to under clock the thing or get a better cooler for it. 
BTW, For some reason Riva won't hold the 100% fan setting, every time I boot the system I have to change it again. Does anyone know how to fix this?

I tried to install MBM 5 but my mobo doesn't show up in their config tools and I can't get the sensors to display temps.


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## Netskimmer

Netskimmer said:


> I tried to install MBM 5 but my mobo doesn't show up in their config tools and I can't get the sensors to display temps.



Does anyone know how I can fix this problem?


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## mep916

I'm not sure why that's happening. You could try PC Wizard '08 or Everest.


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## Netskimmer

I downloaded everest but I can't seem to find were it displays temps.


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## mep916

Click Computer -> Sensor. You should see a bunch of temps in the task bar and in the dialog box.


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## Netskimmer

That was the first thing I tried but the window on the is empty.


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## Netskimmer

I got Fanspeed running but I'm not sure what the temps it gives me correlate to.

Temp1: 51C
Temp2: 33C
Temp3: -2C
Core0: 30C
Core1: 23C
Core2: 28C
Core3: 23C

Is temp 1 my system temp and temp 2 my CPU? I assuming that temp 3 correlates to a sensor that I don't have. Are the core temps the temps for each of the 4 cores in my CPU?


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## mep916

Do you mean Speedfan? The "system" temp, I believe is your chipset/northbridge. I'm not sure about "AUX." The rest should be self explanatory.


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## Netskimmer

Ooops, yeah, I meant Speedfan. On mine it does not say system, CPU ect, it just says Temp1, Temp2, Temp3. Would post pic but I'm at work.


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