# Upgrading Intel E6750 Stock Air Cooler (LGA 755)



## Koku

*Upgrading Intel E6750 Stock Air Cooler (LGA 775)*

As the title suggests, I've been thinking about upgrading the stock Intel fan/heatsink that came with the E6750 Dual-Core Processor to something more reliable.

Could anyone recommend me a good Cooler for a Socket LGA 755? Preferably under/around $30? (Feel free to recommend whatever, it would just be really nice if it was around that price range)


Also, does anyone know the danger temperatures for the E6750?

I've been using HWMonitor to check my temps, and at Idle my temperatures stay around 36-40C. I had noticed that under load, "CPU" was hitting about ~65C, however it was saying each core (2 cores) were hitting just about 90C.

So I reapplied some Arctic Silver Thermal Paste to the CPU/Heatsink last week, using a razor blade to make it a thin and smooth layer (still visibly covering). I noticed the temperatures under load dropped to "CPU" being ~47C, and my 2 cores hitting right around 60C. However, over the past few days its slowly gone up to "CPU" hitting about 53C, and my 2 cores hitting upto 70C. Is this normal? Is the thermal paste possibly too thin, or is this a case of it just..."breaking in" for lack of a better term.

Should I just pay attention to the "CPU" temperature rating instead of worrying about the Core temperature ratings?


As a last note, I'd like to try bumping my CPU from 2.66GHz to 3GHz after getting heating worries out of the way.

Thanks in advance for any recommendations/advice!


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## Okedokey

I would be careful overclocking anything with that PSU>

You could look at the Zalman LED series as they're a good cooler, or even the AIO watercoolers by Corsair, Antec etc.


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## Koku

bigfellla said:


> I would be careful overclocking anything with that PSU



Any reason why? I was originally running with a 500w PSU just fine, until the fan in it started to go bad. Is upping my CPU 300MHz really gonna hurt the extra 100W?


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## Okedokey

Processor frequency, temperature and power requirements are not linear.  Secondly wattage means very little.  Case in point, your Rosewill (or as i like to call them Diewill) PSU has 55A on the 5 volt rail.  Nothing uses that anymore.  As a result your PSU will shutdown when it is asked to deliver 228W from the 12V rail excluding the CPU.  Rubbish for a 600W PSU.

That PSU is of poor quality and has limited specifications to the ATX 2 class, which means essentially that one of the 12V rails is dedicated to the CPU, leaving only 19A (228W) for the rest of the 12V system.  Just barely enough.  Not enough for an overclocked system.  

The 9800GTX+ can draw up to 150 watts (12 amps).  Then deduct the low efficiency, capacitor ageing and temperature effects (>30% derating), you're very close to overloading that system.  This is even without an overclock.

This means that if you are pushing a 9800GTX (not the most efficent core) and overclocking you run the risk of power issues.  This will cause problems.


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## Koku

Is it really necessary to insult any of the brands/parts I use? 

And I apologize for not knowing the insides and out of a PSU, or electrical readings in general. I still don't entirely understand it.

Considering I used my 500W Rosewill nearly 24/7 and did alot of heavy gaming for 3+ years (it still isn't dead, fan started to go, making annoying sounds) I think that's rather good. If anything, I'd consider 500W "very close," but I'm not so sure about the 600W. Again, I'm no expert. It just sounds fishy to me, logically. Sorry if I'm amazingly off.


Anyways, back on topic. Anyone else care to comment on my heating worries?


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## Okedokey

Im not insulting the brand, im telling you the quality is rubbish.  You asked why, i told you.  If you continue on to overclock and it goes bad, you risk losing the lot.

Overclocking, heat and power are all very much related.


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## 2048Megabytes

I would listen to what Bigfella is telling you.  There are a lot of power supplies on the market that are just not good quality.  The power supply you chose just isn't a quality component.  Computer parts need Direct Current to function properly.  If you are not getting a good supply of Direct Current your performance is likely going to be poor.  Worst, if your power supply shorts out it could take the motherboard and destroy other parts as well.  If you value your system I would look in to getting a quality power supply.

Here is one suggestion:

Antec BP550 Plus 550 Watt Continuous Power Power Supply - $75
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=PS-BP550UP


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## Koku

Look, I'm not asking about PSU's. I understand the brand isn't top-notch (I guess paying attention to newegg ratings isn't always best).

The computer is 3+ years old, aside from a part or two, and I plan on building a new one sometime next year (in 6 months, maybe?). It was meant to be a pretty low-budget gaming computer, and it has done that wonderfully.

Again, I'm just looking for a cheap-ish CPU Fan/Heatsink. Not to spend $80 on a new power supply that I don't feel I have a need for, considering I just spent that on an apparently "rubbish" PSU 6 months ago. I'd rather save the cash for the next PSU I buy for a newer computer.

I said I was thinking about trying to bump my CPU up a few MHz, not that I absolutely would. If you all apparently think that it won't work, then fine. It won't work. I know better then to try it then. $80 isn't worth an extra 300 MHz on a dated Duel-Core. I could just double that and probably get a better Quad-Core or i3/5.


Now then, would somebody please leave a comment about the things I'm actually asking about in the original topic? And not the fact that my Rosewill PSU is crap?


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## Okedokey

bigfellla said:


> I would be careful overclocking anything with that PSU>
> 
> You could look at the Zalman LED series as they're a good cooler, or even the AIO watercoolers by Corsair, Antec etc.



Already have.


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## Koku

bigfellla said:


> Already have.



That wasn't the only question, but thank you for the reminder.


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## Phy

The max temperature for the E6750 is 72c, after that it should automatically backoff to save itself. When I looked into installing the cooler for my own computer I found that people now believe that putting a pea sized amount in the center and then attaching the cooler works better.


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## Okedokey

Koku said:


> As a last note, I'd like to try bumping my CPU from 2.66GHz to 3GHz after getting heating worries out of the way.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any recommendations/advice!



The "recommendations / advice!" have been given.  Don't overclock with that PSU.

To answer your second questions, temps are normal.


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## 87dtna

I despise the mounting system but if you don't plan to remove the CPU for a long time yet the cooler master hyper 212+ is one of the best bang for the buck coolers there is.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065


BTW, just FYI but it is socket 775 not 755.  And on your PSU, it is a lower quality unit but your PC does not pull that much wattage.  The risk of a small overclock is extremely minimal.  A good quality 400w PSU would power your rig with zero issues.  Do you have your 9800gtx+ overclocked?  

You stock FSB is 333 (1333), taking it straight to 400 (1600 affective) would give you 3.2ghz and probably not require any voltage increase.  BUT, remember make sure you take your ram multiplier down as overclocking the FSB also overclocks the ram.

And to answer you temp question, 70c under load for the core temp is fine.  Max is around 100.  With the hyper 212+ your temps probably won't even see 60c loaded with the overclock.


One last question, is this the PSU you have?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182032&Tpk=rosewill 600w


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## Koku

87dtna said:


> I despise the mounting system but if you don't plan to remove the CPU for a long time yet the cooler master hyper 212+ is one of the best bang for the buck coolers there is.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065



The mounting system does seem somewhat tedious, having to remove the motherboard. But, that does look pretty good. I will definitely consider it.




87dtna said:


> BTW, just FYI but it is socket 775 not 755.  And on your PSU, it is a lower quality unit but your PC does not pull that much wattage.  The risk of a small overclock is extremely minimal.  A good quality 400w PSU would power your rig with zero issues.  Do you have your 9800gtx+ overclocked?



Yikes, you are correct. Updated my sig to the correct number, 775. And I'm not really surprised its lower quality. I know Rosewill has alot in the computer business, although they aren't the greatest. That being said though, I figured something mid-level 6 months ago would power something 3 years ago perfectly fine.

And as for the 9800 GTX+ question, I believe the GTX+ is factory overclocked slightly, although I have yet to try and push it any further. I was thinking about it, but then I tried the EVGA stress test tool and saw it hit 75C (heavy gaming, it usually hits ~65C!) so I changed my mind on that. Maybe a little wouldn't hurt. Also, the box suggested a 450W PSU for the 9800 GTX+, so I'm sure it and the older CPU could probably just barely get by on a 400W PSU.



87dtna said:


> You stock FSB is 333 (1333), taking it straight to 400 (1600 affective) would give you 3.2ghz and probably not require any voltage increase.  BUT, remember make sure you take your ram multiplier down as overclocking the FSB also overclocks the ram.
> 
> And to answer you temp question, 70c under load for the core temp is fine.  Max is around 100.  With the hyper 212+ your temps probably won't even see 60c loaded with the overclock.



I figured it wouldn't need much, if any, of a voltage increase. And I'll be sure to keep the ram advice in mind, if/when I overclock.

And thank you for answering the temperature questions.




87dtna said:


> One last question, is this the PSU you have?
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182032&Tpk=rosewill 600w



Yup, thats the one.


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## 87dtna

Well that PSU certainly isn't the worst rosewill by a longshot.  With the wattage your rig is pulling, it's fine for a small to moderate overclock.

They recommend higher than necessary wattage PSU for the cards because they have to cover their ass.  The lower quality PSU's (as we've been discussing) are more the equivalent of a lower wattage good quality PSU.  So what they are basically saying is even a low quality 450w psu can run a 9800gtx+.  So you are fine.

As a *general* rule, the more efficient the PSU the better quality it is.  80+ certified is good, then you have 80+ bronze, silver, and gold.  Your PSU is 72% efficient, the lower efficiency generally means cheaper parts were used to build it.  Just for future reference 

If your voltage is currently on Auto, just set the FSB to 400, change the ram speed multiplier, and boot.  Then run prime95 stress test for atleast an hour to make sure it's stable.  Thats after you install the aftermarket cooler of course.


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## Okedokey

I disagree, that PSU only has available 19A for the 12V system minus the CPU (refer to ATX12V 2.01 standard, section 1.2.4).  I wouldn't overclock anything on that ever.  Its not about wattage, that is very misleading.    Its about amperage and quality.  In fact that PSU fails to meet some of the ATX12V 2.01 standards such as hold up time (min should be 17ms).

That PSU has no active PFC, poor efficiency, small cooling fan (low quality too), MTBF rated at 25oC rather than 40oC.  As a result you would derate the max power delivery by at least 30% as shown by this derating curve (curve 2).  That provides a total of around 14A available to the 12V rail (minus the CPU).  That is dangerously close to the GTX9800+ (13A stock) especially so, when overclocked.  I wouldn't push it any further.

Sure it will 'work', in fact it'll probably work for a good while. But on that nice hot summer day, in 6 months or so, whilst gaming, when it goes bang!, you'll wish you had've listened to me as it will quite possibly take the whole system out.   Derating is something many forget, and for cheaper quality PSUs is essential.  Especailly when specs are given @ 25oC which is almost never the operating conditions.  I don't want to get in an argument over this, (and I wont), but recommending any overclocking on this PSU is irresponsible.


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## 87dtna

Interesting.  How is a 120mm fan small?  nearly all higher end quality PSU's have a single 120mm fan.  Also, how would overclocking the CPU (which is on the other 19a rail) affect the rail that the GPU is on?  I wasn't recommending overclock on the card, only the CPU.  The cpu being a only 65w TDP, a little over 5 amps, even at your derating of 14 amps on the second rail he should be able to overclock 100% and still have headroom.


May I ask, whats your opinion on this PSU-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817339024


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## StrangleHold

Even though me and bigfellla disagree alittle bit about the CPU 12V rail. He is right, its a piece of junk. The rating are at max and I doubt the second rail could get 19 amps without tripping ( my guess is 14/15 amps) and if it doesnt trip it will overheat and just burn out. Roadkill uses 3 or 4 different manufactures and they are all cheap and advertise the watts and amps. at max which means about 3 or 4 seconds then you get a fireworks show. Roadkill is famous for over rating them in a devious way.

And the hec is junk too.


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## Okedokey

Lol road kill.  can i use that too?  I like Diewill better though 



87dtna said:


> Interesting.  How is a 120mm fan small?  nearly all higher end quality PSU's have a single 120mm fan.



Actually most high quality PSUs use 140mm fans and are rated at 40oC.


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## StrangleHold

The thing about roadkill is they are newegg house brand. They want them as cheap as possible and they order them from manufactures that make cheap power supplies to start with, so you can imagine the build quaity on these things. hec are the same, but they just make there own, overrated and cheap built.

For the same price you can get something like this, and its way better quality. But the CX line is still lower quality then the TX/HX/AX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139028
Or even this one. Just a 520W but has the same amount of watts and amps on the 12V rail the 600W corsair
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094


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## 87dtna

Yeah well the HEC you call junk I've used to power an I7 920 at 4.2ghz and gtx460 at 850 core clock for several months, then after that it's been powering my I5 750 rig for a year (several different video cards but same I5 at 4.2ghz).

So your guys opinions on what you'd consider junk is pretty irrelevent to me.

You'd probably also think that no 850w PSU would ever handle an X5667 (intel hex core I7 970 equivalent 12 threads) at 5ghz (yes 5ghz no typo) and 5850 tri fire overclocked to 1000 core clock.  blah blah blah.

I've also powered the I5 750 at 4.2ghz with a gtx470 with a 450w PSU, I'm sure you wouldn't ''recommend'' that either.


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## StrangleHold

So in other words. Your saying you play Russian Roulette and havent blown out your brains yet. So it makes it irrelevent to you if I think its dangerous and you would recommend others to do it. You can run anything you want, but I am still not going to suggest it.


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## Okedokey

Of course we wouldn't recommend that.  If you want to take the (stupid) chance with your own gear, then go for it, however this forum is for people who want proper advice - not rediculous suggestions to save what, a few bucks?  False economics.


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## 87dtna

Just because YOU consider it russian roulette doesn't make it so.  Thats the whole point here.  You have opinion, I have backed up FACTS based on my own experiences.

This also isn't a matter of saving a few bucks.  He's not asking ''should I get this PSU or spend a few more bucks and get this one''.  He already has the rosewill PSU, and I seriously seriously doubt going to a small 3.2ghz overclock is going blow it up.  He's gonna be pulling maybe 10-20 more watts....OMG it's gonna blow


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## Okedokey

Of course when you scream your point (caps), you know one is desperately holding on to a losing argument.  Your anecdotal evidence is not factual, its based on luck, and you are not the first to believe such things, however the probablity of a system damaged by such a low quality PSU even in its current stock state, is much higher.

You are also not the only one that may read this in future.  So of course I have provide actual facts relating to the engineering principles outlined in my above posts, backed up by real facts.  

You can do what you like, doesn't make it justifiable, nor responsible.  If you want to take your view and claim that running a PSU at its very limit, especially with such low quality, go for it, but do it with your own gear, don't recommend it to the uninitiated.

Over and out.


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## FuryRosewood

*facepaws at this dicsussion*


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## 87dtna

bigfellla said:


> Of course when you scream your point (caps), you know one is desperately holding on to a losing argument.  Your anecdotal evidence is not factual, its based on luck, and you are not the first to believe such things, however the probablity of a system damaged by such a low quality PSU even in its current stock state, is much higher.
> 
> You are also not the only one that may read this in future.  So of course I have provide actual facts relating to the engineering principles outlined in my above posts, backed up by real facts.
> 
> You can do what you like, doesn't make it justifiable, nor responsible.  If you want to take your view and claim that running a PSU at its very limit, especially with such low quality, go for it, but do it with your own gear, don't recommend it to the uninitiated.
> 
> Over and out.



LOL, you are the one spewing out bogus numbers (such as 30%, where's the scientific factual evidence of this 30%) and I'm the one losing the argument?  You are just a legend in your own mind buddy.  



FuryRosewood said:


> *facepaws at this dicsussion*



^fail

*facepalm*


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## StrangleHold

87dtna said:


> LOL, you are the one spewing out bogus numbers (such as 30%, where's the scientific factual evidence of this 30%) and I'm the one losing the argument? You are just a legend in your own mind buddy.


 
Scientific factual evidence. It pretty common knowledge. Most quality power supplies are rated at around 40c. Which is what they under normal circumstances run at, even under load. The higher the temp, the faster the wattage and efficiency drops. 

I'll give you a example, the seasonic I linked too is a 520W and in reality has as many watts and amps on the 12V rail as either of the other 650W.
The seasonic is rated at 40c with 83% efficiency and the Roadkill is rated at 25c with 72% efficiency. Now I hope we can agree the seasonic is better quality. 

On the Seasonic model if you increase the temp to 50c the wattage and efficiency will drop by 20%. Now the Roadkill is rated at 25c and even at 25c is has a lower efficiency. Now we both know that a power supply isnt going to be running at 25c, what is that 77f. You would have to put it in a refrigerator. Guess why thay rate it at 25c, if you increased it to 40c. The efficiency would probably drop to around 60% and the wattage to around 500W and alot of that is on the 5V rail. So yes, 30% drop is pretty close to the real number without testing it.


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## 87dtna

Yes I agree the seasonic is better quality, and I agree that the 600w is bloated and overrated.  But even a quality 450w PSU would power his rig, it's not some crazy power hungry rig.
So, taking into account that 30% would be what it would derate by, and 9800gtx+'s typically consume 10-12a fully loaded (even take the high end 12 since his *may* be an OC edition).

So we have 12a max being consumed on the one 14a derated rail, and 5-6 amps from the cpu on the other 14a derated rail.  Where's the danger in overclocking here?  The absolute most he would pull from the cpu is 8 amps overclocked.  Factor in the other 12v accessories and we are still no where near even the derated 14a figure.

So again to sum it up and reiterate, even accepting your 30% drop figure it's still not even close to maxxed out.  I see no danger in a small overclock.


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## Okedokey

The 30% I refer to is simply a temperature derating curve based on the fact that all powersupplies will derate proportional to temperature.  Low quality PSUs rated at 25oC can derate between 1W-4W/degree above 20oC.  This means that a standard operating temperature of 50oC means that it could actually derate by between 2.5A - 10A in summer.  This means that your 19A rail is now actually only able to deliver a MAX of between 16.5A and 9A.  Average of that is 12.75A.  As you can see, running a 9800GTX+ (requiring up to 13A according to nvidia), on a low quality PSU such is this is veyr dangerous.  And this is just the graphics card, not the rest of the 12V system (minus the CPU).

What you have also forgotton is the synergistic effect of the cross loading temperature.  We now have a rail that when used to provide power to the 9800GTX+ during a nice bout of summer gaming is drawing close to maximum.  This produces even more heat.  De-rating the ability of the other rail to provide proper energy.  The 12V+1 rail is dedicated to the CPU, so it is completely out of the equation.  However its ability to provide stable power is linked to GPU (and other) rail, as it is nearing 100% max load regardless.  If this PSU was of higher quality with EPS2.91 cert, and 2 19A rails, then yes, you'd be right, but in this case, its simply stupidity to load this PSU further, regardless of rail tolerances.

You have also forgotten capacitor ageing.

Actually I cannot be bothered.  If you want to recommend that this is a good idea go ahead.  I certainly wouldn't do it.


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## StrangleHold

I never said anything about his CPU rail, or if he could overclock or not. Its his system rail thats at its limit. Under normal operating temps. he has around 14/15 amps on the rail. The average system with a 9800 GTX+ under load is around 275W. Say we -100W for the CPU. That leaves 175W being pulled off the second rail, thats around 14/15 amps being pulled off it. The rail wont trip till it hits 19 amps. But it only has around 15 max to pull. Eveytime he loads it while gaming, the rail is being pulled at its max. If your running it at its max, what happens. It heats up and its efficiency starts to go down even more. My point is, this thing will eventually burn up. 

The problem with these cheap fake dual rail power supplies is the system rail. Everything from the 24 pin power connector that powers the Chipsets/USB/Lan/PCI and PCIe slots/Sound/CPU fan/Memory, anything that is powered from the motherboard. Then any thing hooked up to a PCIe or molex connector. All pulls off that second rail.


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## 87dtna

Well, a 9800gtx+ is rated at the same TDP as a 9800gtx but draws substantially less due to being 55nm.  So although it's rated TDP is ~12a, actual full load is around 10a.   Now thats 100% load too.

I understand your point strangle, but he said he was running a 500w rosewill on this rig for 3 years before the fan crapped out.  Now he's got a 600w.   :-/

Anyway, since the CPU rail is totally seperate, an overclock shouldn't affect anything anyway since right now it's not even drawing 6a.


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## Okedokey

The GTX9800+ has a TDP of 141W (11.75A).  Overclocked this would be higher of course.  The GTX9800+ is now branded as a GTS250 (same thing) and that has a TDP of around 150W.  So if you are going to make a guess about how the 55nm architecture would perform regarding power, its wise to use what nvidia have claimed - not some guess.  12A at max would be conservative,  but hey, lets call it 11A.

Now where you have a rail that, due to derating, may struggle to provide 10A, things are not looking good.

Sceondly, the second rail isn't 'completely seperate', its a seperate current limitation only.  It will suffer from heat, stability, ripple etc from the overloaded system rail - why, because it is 1 transformer coil.  The 'rails' are simply voltage dividers that are current limited.  Yes, they're seperate in regards to load, but not for all else.  This is why, an overloaded rail on one will cause issues on the other.

In fact this could be a cause of the heating issues in the OP.  

Anyway, to answer the question of the OP, you can overclock whatever you like, however I wouldn't recommend it.  In fact I wouldn't recommend that PSU at all.

Get yourself a multimeter and test the 12V rail stability (molex connector).  I suspect massive voltage droop which can cause temperature issues amongst other things.  You are running this system on the edge of what is considered smart, you have been warned - however I hope it doesn't go badly for you.


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## 87dtna

So, according to your philosophy, the TDP on a card is how much it WILL draw and then the specs of a PSU are crap and overrated.  Nice philosophy.

You may know PSU's but you don't know jack about cards other than what you can read on a paper or website.  The TDP is overrated, and thats not a guess I've owned a gts250, a 9800gtx+, and many other cards....and yes I've tested load wattage differences and it's more like 120-130w....and again thats 100% solid load with a benchmark, something most games won't do to a card.

And the TDP on a gts250 is 145w.

So now the rail is struggling to produce 10a.  What happened to 30% loss, now we are up to nearly 50% loss.  The more you talk the more I laugh.  You don't even know what the name of the card is.  ''gtx9800+''.  LOL


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## Okedokey

87dtna said:


> So, according to your philosophy, the TDP on a card is how much it WILL draw and then the specs of a PSU are crap and overrated.  Nice philosophy.



Derating would make the card draw more, not less.  And yes, derating a PSU is standard practice.



87dtna said:


> You may know PSU's but you don't know jack about cards other than what you can read on a paper or website.  The TDP is overrated, and thats not a guess I've owned a gts250, a 9800gtx+, and many other cards....and yes I've tested load wattage differences and it's more like 120-130w....and again thats 100% solid load with a benchmark, something most games won't do to a card.





87dtna said:


> So now the rail is struggling to produce 10a.  What happened to 30% loss, now we are up to nearly 50% loss.  The more you talk the more I laugh.  You don't even know what the name of the card is.  ''gtx9800+''.  LOL



I said "at least" 30%.  And backed that up with a derating curve, and calculations.  You clearly didn't read it.

Even if it is 120W as you claim, thats 10A.  Derating of such a low quality PSU could be 4W/degree over 20oC.  So at 50oC thats 30 x 4 = 120W.  Or 10A derated.  On a 19A (max) rail that leaves 10A (max).  So worst case scenario, you will have (even on your calcs) an overloaded system.



87dtna said:


> And the TDP on a gts250 is 145w.



Incorrect, its 150W.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gts_250_us.html


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## 87dtna

Yeah, well, the 500w rosewill he was running for 3 years was only rated at 16a on the 12v rail.  It's obviously less than 30% not ''at least'' 30%.  Kinda blows your whole theory right outta the water.

OK well my evga gts250 was 145w.


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## Okedokey

Doesn't blow anything out of the water - why, because he got lucky. The fan failed though indicating a higher work load due to heat, which is a symptom of overload. Who knows what other issues were caused.

What you've give above is a circular argument. It worked, because it works so it'll work. Any first year science student ca explain to you why that's wrong, and most certainly not a way to judge technical situations or risk. 

At the end if the day, the PSU is junk, on the limits of what it is designed for and failure can cause loss of whole system. Risk assessment 101 says you don't push it, u less you're happy with the risk of damagIng the system. That's the whole point of this thread!


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## 87dtna

Oh so now the fan died from high work load + heat and not because it's simply a cheap piece of crap fan.  Talk about a circular argument.  3 years is a helluva long time for a cheap fan to work under any conditions, so it doesn't really seem thats its life was terminated short at all.

My point was, your 30% or more argument is obviously false for these PSU's.  If it held up to a 16a rail for 3 years, it should be even better with a 19a rail.  Common sense no?

You call it luck, but these PSU manufacturers would be long out of business if the power derating is as much as you claim.  They'd have a million small claims cases from PSU's blowing up taking out their hardware.

You remind me of Ben stiller in Along Came Polly.....a guy that lives in his own little bubble assessing risk for a living therefore making sure everything is overkill and skewed toward the negative aspect to make absolutely sure there is no risk whatsoever.  

Do you not walk over sewer grates because there's a 1 in 40,000 chance of falling in?  LOL


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## Okedokey

I think this thread is over - the OP should have enough information to make an informed decision.


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## 87dtna

He never even considered getting a different PSU, that was not the thread topic, and you did not change his mind.  I would laugh at you too like I'm sure he is if I was running a 500w PSU for 3 years, bought 600w to replace it and then you tell me it's not a good enough PSU for my system and it might blow up.

I'm the only one that provided him with any kind of information he desired.


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## StrangleHold

My whole point here was the power supply really needs to be replaced. Dont give a big crap about the CPU rail. Its not overloaded. Isnt going to matter if its overclocked a few 100mhz. or not. Its the system rail thats pretty much at its limit. If the dude just looks at YouTube videos all day or just looks around on the internet most of the time, it isnt going to matter much. But if he games alot, it will go out sooner or later.


----------



## Koku

StrangleHold said:


> My whole point here was the power supply really needs to be replaced. Dont give a big crap about the CPU rail. Its not overloaded. Isnt going to matter if its overclocked a few 100mhz. or not. Its the system rail thats pretty much at its limit. If the dude just looks at YouTube videos all day or just looks around on the internet most of the time, it isnt going to matter much. But if he games alot, it will go out sooner or later.



@StrangleHold, I really have to ask. Was the only reason you responded to this topic to take shots that my PSU is crap? :U

@87dtna, Thank you for all of your helpful information. I am still paying attention to this topic.


That aside. It's nice to see this discussion (as off topic as it is) tipping a bit more into 87dtna favor.

As StrangleHold has just said, adding a couple extra MHz to the CPU most likely WILL NOT cause much of a hit.

BigFella, StrangleHold. I appreciate all the technical talk you have put into the discussion, but Overclocking is meant to have the possibility of dangers, whether its frying something, or slicing a year or two off one thing or another, or possibly nothing at all. If I were to put the money into giving myself a completely "Safe" overclocking, I might as well as just buy better grade things with a factory clocked speed of my preference.

That being said, I also see that I may be stressing my PSU in general. But look, this was my old PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182044



> Efficiency > 65%
> 
> Output +3.3V@22A, +5V@16A, +12V1@15A, +12V2@16A, -12V@0.8A, +5VSB@2.5A
> 
> MFTB 100k hours at max. load, normal line and 25°C



3 years of heavy use with plenty of uptime, and it still works just fine. The fan isn't dead yet, and quite honestly it doesn't feel as though its pushing any less air. The fan just started to make annoying noises, which really couldn't be fixed.

Even after the fan started to make noise, I still used it for several more months before the fan noise finally got to me, and I decided to pick up a new one.

And just to stop any "the heat killed it" arguments, it was already past the hot season when the fan began to make noise, and it was far into the hot season when I decided to replace it. Keep in mind, the few hottest days of summer here are around 110F, with a decent amount of humidity. With the average summer day in the high 90F's, possibly very low 100F's.

It never gave me any technical issues whatsoever.


This is the new PSU, as you have most likely already seen:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182032



> Efficiency > 72%
> 
> Output +3.3@30A, +5V@55A, +12V1@19A, +12V2@19A, -12V@1A, +5VSB@2.5A
> 
> MFTB 100k hours at 25°C, max. load, nominal input



Now, I apologize if I skipped over any other important details that might break this idea, but the newer one seems quite a bit better then the older one. Maybe not MUCH better, but still quite an improvement. I certainly would not have tried to overclock anything on my older PSU, given the fact its low grade and I felt I was already pushing it slightly. I mean, I believe I only paid like $30-40 for the thing. I'm sure 3 years may not seem like a long time for a top-quality PSU, but I feel like I got my moneys worth out of it.


This is not comparing a crappy 600W PSU to an ultra-quality 500W PSU. This is comparing a crappy 600W PSU to an even crappier 500w PSU.

I would probably say the 600W is 1.5 times better (IN MY CONDITIONS, maybe not straight off the technical readings), or at LEAST 1.3 times better then my older one.

Do you REALLY think that I still need to upgrade? I went from 3 years (and still working!), even through 110F weather, on a $35 500W with extremely cheap parts (Rosewill, apparently), to a $70 600W with cheap parts (again, Rosewill apparently) that seems to be atleast 1.3 times better then the previous.


I don't mind if you want to point out that they really aren't quality built PSU's (you have shown plenty of proof), or that they won't last as long as they could. I don't really mind if the thing blows up after 6 more months, although I'd feel like I've gotten my moneys worth if it lasts 2-3 years or more.

The way this topic went, it makes me feel like a god for the fact my poorly made 500W has lasted so long. Of course, that goes away with every other post saying my 600W shouldn't even handle my system, but hey. Whatever.


*I think you would have better luck explaining how the hell my 500W is working perfectly fine, then trying to tell me my 600W is scrap metal.*

Again, we are comparing a poor quality 500W to a poor quality (albeit better quality then the 500W) 600W. As StrangleHold has just said (And 87dtna has been saying), overclocking a few hundred MHz will not effect my current setup.


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## Okedokey

I give up.


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## Computer_Freak

listen to bigfella. In terms of PSU's he is probably the most knowledgeable person i have seen on the internet. 

Just dont OC. Remember, a new PSU can be carried over to your next build. As they say, its not wattage, its the amps. your 12v line has literally just enough to juice your system. its probably being pushed quite a bit right now. and as everyone has said, you dont just risk your PSU, you risk your whole PC. You say OCing has risks, but in most cases its people being stupid where problems arise. you do it right, and your PC will last. You are being dumb right now, OCing on a cheap PSU thats on its limit, and if you start gaming it pushes it even more? a PSU is the heart of your system. Its the life force. you have a bad heart, you have problems. same applies to PSU's

Whats the point of coming on a forum if you wont listen to us? we are trying to help. we all spend money, we all earn money, trust me, nobody wants to spend more than they have to. The great thing about a PSU is that it can be carried over. So get a better PSU. Mine has lasted for like 2 years, and been taken to my new system. ill still take it to my next system if its still alive (no fan noises, or if i feel it needs to be retired).

Personally, i dont think im going to use anything but Corsair for PSU. I prefer a single rail, and their are very well built units, with plenty of amps on the 12v line. plus they dont break the bank. I bought a 750w so i can have some headroom, plus PSU are most efficient at about 60 - 80% loads.

As for a cooler, i Recommend CoolerMaster HYper 212 Evo. Basically a Hyper 212+ but with improvements (heatpipes closer, they draw heat better, instead of loading the 2 centre one). I used it on my E6400 and my temps would not go past 45 degrees (overclocked from 2.13 to 3.5GHz). My i7 they dont go past 55. so its a pretty great cooler.


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## Koku

Computer_Freak said:


> listen to bigfella. In terms of PSU's he is probably the most knowledgeable person i have seen on the internet.
> 
> Just dont OC. Remember, a new PSU can be carried over to your next build. As they say, its not wattage, its the amps. your 12v line has literally just enough to juice your system. its probably being pushed quite a bit right now. and as everyone has said, you dont just risk your PSU, you risk your whole PC. You say OCing has risks, but in most cases its people being stupid where problems arise. you do it right, and your PC will last. You are being dumb right now, OCing on a cheap PSU thats on its limit, and if you start gaming it pushes it even more? a PSU is the heart of your system. Its the life force. you have a bad heart, you have problems. same applies to PSU's
> 
> Whats the point of coming on a forum if you wont listen to us? we are trying to help. we all spend money, we all earn money, trust me, nobody wants to spend more than they have to. The great thing about a PSU is that it can be carried over. So get a better PSU. Mine has lasted for like 2 years, and been taken to my new system. ill still take it to my next system if its still alive (no fan noises, or if i feel it needs to be retired).
> 
> Personally, i dont think im going to use anything but Corsair for PSU. I prefer a single rail, and their are very well built units, with plenty of amps on the 12v line. plus they dont break the bank. I bought a 750w so i can have some headroom, plus PSU are most efficient at about 60 - 80% loads.
> 
> As for a cooler, i Recommend CoolerMaster HYper 212 Evo. Basically a Hyper 212+ but with improvements (heatpipes closer, they draw heat better, instead of loading the 2 centre one). I used it on my E6400 and my temps would not go past 45 degrees (overclocked from 2.13 to 3.5GHz). My i7 they dont go past 55. so its a pretty great cooler.



To be honest, I don't even have the need to overclock anymore. It would still be nice to know whether I could or not, for if I ever decide to do it. But that's not really my problem with all the downtalk of my PSU. It's the fact that noone has explained how I've gotten by for so long with my 500W, which is considerably worse then my 600W, while still telling me I'm at the limit and about to go over the edge with the 600W.

I've heard the "Well just because its 600w doesn't mean its actually that" and such, but that also goes for the 500w. If you derate one, you have to derate the other if its similar or worse.

While they may say whether its 600W or 500W doesn't matter, what about the specs? the 600W seems to have atleast 1/3rd better specs then the 500W.

I've heard everything as far as to why my system should BARELY even be running on my 600W PSU. Can anyone explain why I've been able to run perfectly fine on my 500W PSU of worse quality?

I respect what everyone has to say, but can you at least fill in the last part of this pretty much completely off topic puzzle? How is it that even after upgrading from the cheaper 500W to a cheap 600W, is my PSU still considered to be on its "last leg."

The reason I will not be getting a new PSU is because I do not have the cash to spare for something of higher quality and specs, which I'm sure I will be needing for the next system I build.


Thank you for the suggestion for the cooler, and also the Corsair brand for PSU. Finally something on topic since the second page.


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## Okedokey

The take home message is that wattage branded on a PSU means nothing.  IT’S NOT ABOUT WATTAGE!!!  ACTUAL 12V RAIL AMPERAGE IS MORE IMPORTANT!

If you would like, post the model of that 500W PSU you were using.  But remember, this kind of issue is a ticking time-bomb.  As I said before, it could work fine for months, but then one nice hot summer day, playing BF3 (or similar) it goes BANG!   Goodbye computer.  It cant be the PSU, it worked up until now right?  Wrong.

A Corsair 430W PSU has more 12V rail amperage than many 600W poor quality PSUs.  That’s just one criterion.  The ability of PSU to meet your needs is based on several more criteria (quality).  Quality PSUs such as almost all Corsair units are rated at 40oC, have high quality Japanese capacitors, active PFC, 140mm fans, better quality chokes and higher quality windings.  This is why their Mean Time Before Failure (MTBF) is 100,000 hours at 40oC rather than 20/25oC!!!  That’s just the tip of the iceberg.  So when you derate a Corsair 430W PSU, you do it from 40oC, at 1W/degree above 40oC.   Not 4W/degree above 20oC.  Do you see the difference?

Your original post (as I remember it) was, I have temp concerns (what coolers are better), I want to overclock (what range do I have).  Now if there is one thing that is completely relevant to this discussion is the power supply.  If you have a struggling poor quality PSU, that can result in symptoms that show up as temperature issues, BSOD, freezes etc. etc., and if you overclock it - it will get worse. They're all related.  

But the kicker here is:  If you take the chance and push (or imo use) this PSU (as others promote), you could lose your CPU, RAM, MOBO and more. Even 300MHz on the CPU.  You must understand this PSU is already stressed (13A GPU on a 19A rail derated to around 14A at best).  This is probably why your fan on the previous PSU failed.  It met its mean-time before failure early, because it was used more beyond its design criteria, to cool an overloaded system.

Don’t push it mate.   Especially when (according to you)  "... you don't have the need...".   Mate seriously; I wouldn't even be using that PSU at all.  Risk is about the probability of something going bad (high) and the impact that has (if your computer gets fried, I would say that is pretty bad).  In this case, you hit both, very likely (especially with an overclock), and it could take out your system.  But of course you can do what you want 

So, the first question should always be what is powering your kit.  In this case a very low quality unit.   If you wish to disregard our advice, by all means go ahead.  But it is always easier to hear, "what you want to hear".  If you cannot afford a new PSU fine, just don't overclock.  Simple.

Koku, at CF, we're here to help.  But no-one with any shred of knowledge would recommend you OC with that PSU.  You have had 2 x VIPs and a member say no, and one member say yes.  Either way its your call.

Either way, Ive suggested coolers that work well for that CPU.

Either way, make sure you have GREAT cooling in that case.  This will help that poor PSU and everything else.  Remember, voltage droop = temperature issues = broken computer.


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## Koku

bigfellla said:


> ...



You continue to edit your post, lmao. I don't want to reply if I'm going to miss any of your points, so let me just point out the things I was to discuss.

1. Coolers for a CPU. This has already been done, but more suggestions do not hurt.

2. 500W vs 600W. Same brand (rosewill). 600W has considerably better specs then the 500W, and while the 500W can handle the PC perfectly fine (no hiccups or random shutdowns, BSOD), the 600W is apparently about to drive over the edge any moment now.

Edit: StrangleHold, I would appreciate it alot if you could explain the whole 500W vs 600W matter to me, if you happen to check this thread again (I'm pretty sure you will).


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## Okedokey

SOrry about the edits, I was trying to be clear.

Ill ask you a question instead.



Koku said:


> 1. Coolers for a CPU. This has already been done, but more suggestions do not hurt.



1.  Did you read my 2 previous posts about the Zalman LED series and AIO Corsair units?



Koku said:


> 2. 500W vs 600W. Same brand (rosewill). 600W has considerably better specs then the 500W, and while the 500W can handle the PC perfectly fine (no hiccups or random shutdowns, BSOD), the 600W is apparently about to drive over the edge any moment now.



2.  Have you any clue about PSUs whatsoever?  No disrespect, but if you think that because its fine, itll be fine, so its fine = win!  then fine.  Ive gone through almost everything I can in terms of engineering and science.  But please, post the specs of the 500W and ill try and explain.  But don't expect a black and white answer.  As I said :



bigfellla said:


> If you would like, post the model of that 500W PSU you were using.  But remember, this kind of issue is a ticking time-bomb.  As I said before, it could work fine for months, but then one nice hot summer day, playing BF3 (or similar) it goes BANG!   Goodbye computer.  It cant be the PSU, it worked up until now right?  Wrong.



Post the specs of that 500W PSU.  It may have been a better PSU in terms of quality, and as I have shown wattage means NOTHING!>


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## Okedokey

Just to add, because I think many people dont realise:

PSUs convert AC to DC via a winding
This causes heat (read efficiency)
Voltage is regulated via resistors
Rails are determined via voltage dividers (resistors)
Resistance causes heat
Heat increases resistance
Efficiency decreases with heat
Heat increases with resistance
and so on....

This is why poor quality PSUs suffer from de-rating more.

Stamped wattage means little, look at the 500W PSU amperage and certifications according to specficiation.  Also Rosewill is a brand.  NOT a quality mark.  As Strangle pointed out earlier, several cheap ass chinese manufacturers make Roeswill PSUs, so indeed, your 500W PSU may even be a better PSU.

But mate, by all means post the exact model of you PSU (500W) one and I'll attempt to show you the differences.  But in my experience, the difference between a 500W and a 600W Rosewill on the rail that counts (12V rail) is less than 50W.  Bugger all.  And as such a waste of money.

To give you a real example:

600W Rosewill = 12V Rail @ 35A *MAX*. Get to this point = shutdown.  Derated = 26.7A max.  Including CPU.  *@ 50oC = 25 x 4W = 100W = 8.3A derating
500W Rosewill = 12V Rail @ 30A *MAX*.  Get to this point = shutdown.  Derated = 21.7 A max. Including CPU.*@ 50oC = 25 x 4W = 100W = 8.3A derating

430W Corsair = 12V Rail @ 28A *CONTINUOUS*.  Get to this point, no worries, its continuous PSU.  Derated = 27.17A  One rail.  *@50oC = 10 x 1W (better components) = 10W = 0.83A derating.  1/10th. 

So as you can see, _quality _430W PSU has (even when derated to the same temp) due to its quality and design - more than a Rosewill 500/600W PSU.  This is only accounting for the effects of temperature - and nothing else (e.g. ATX design standards, capacitor ageing, active PFC, ripple, crossloading, harmonics, fan noise and efficacy etc etc).  

I really hope this is clear else, i give up.


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## Computer_Freak

as i say, for budget, no cooler will touch the Hyper 212 Evo. Get that. It even beats some more expensive coolers but quite a margin.

Its the generally accepted Budget cooler for awesome performance.

now to go to PSU stuff again, post the specs or a picture of each sticker (that shows the wattage, rails, amps etc)

then we can show you from there


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## StrangleHold

No, I didnt enter the discussion just to rag your power supply. Kinda like if you had a car and wanted to know about the carburetor and a person noticed you had a small cheap battery and said, man you better upgrade that battery. bigfellla just gave you information about your P/S. 87dtna came back and started the argument, in the sense from the above statement, that it starts the car, so its fine.

Your question about, if the 500 ran it, the 600 should be fine. 

It looks like these were made by two different manufactures. The only advantage the 600 has over the 500 is the efficiency, but only slightly since they are rated at 25c. To answer your question, the 600 dumps alot more watts and amps. on the 5V rail. The 600 has 55 amps and the 500 only puts 15 amps. So the 600 only has a few more watts and amps. on the 12V rail. One is really no better then the other on the 12V rail. 

My point is, its a cheap power supply and you have the 12V systems rail pretty much maxed out. If you take offense to that, I dont know what to say. You and 87dtna claim, it starts the car. Well on that hot or cold day when it doesnt start or it shorts out. Saying it (use) to start the car really doesnt mean much, does it?


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## 87dtna

OMG

If the rail really derated to 8.3a it would have fried the first time he tried to game on it.  Thats so stupid it's beyond words.


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## Okedokey

87dtna said:


> OMG
> 
> If the rail really derated to 8.3a it would have fried the first time he tried to game on it.  Thats so stupid it's beyond words.



Sheesh you don't give up do you.  The irony of your last sentence is gold mate.

The derating calculations are for the total 12V system.  The derating is BY 8.3A (25%-30%) not to 8.3A as you thought.  And again this is for temperature only.  The PSUs ability to deliver the rated outputs are dependant on other things too.  

Read fail?


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## 87dtna

I guess I just cannot comprehend the depths of your knowledge on powersupplies with these giant equations and page long essays....or the fact that you still cannot explain how his rig lasted 3 years (other than ''luck''  ) on 31a of 12v rail but will probably blow up any minute on 38a.


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## Okedokey

87dtna said:


> I guess I just cannot comprehend the depths of your knowledge on powersupplies....or the fact that you still cannot explain how his rig lasted 3 years (other than ''luck''  ) on 31a of 12v rail but will probably blow up any minute on 38a.
> 
> BTW, derate the the previous power supplies 16a rail by 8.3 amps and what do you get?



You really don't get it do you?

You cannot add the 2 x 19A rails and say it has 38A, or 15A/16A rails and say it has 31A.  You have just proven you don't have the first idea mate.

Here is the rating plate for the 500W Rosewill PSU with its 15A and 16A rails that you somehow think can deliver 31A on the 12V rail.  LOL.






  Picture here if you cant see it.

Notice the total wattage available on the 12V rail on these so called 15A and 16A rails.  480W - 130W = 350W MAX on the 12V rail.  This is 29.16A MAX.  As this is not a continuous power supply unit, this is the point it shuts down.

So we derate that transformer (call it rail if you want) by 25oC @ 4W per degree, reducing the rail's actual ability by 100W.  This is the 8.3A.  Divide that (via voltage dividers) across the 2 current seperated rails, and you have a total (MAX) of 11.85/12.85A on each rail respectively.  Now most of the time you won't need to derate it so far, as during winter, night time etc, it wont be 50oC inside that PSU housing.  But on a warm day (as Ive said several times before), it can easily get there, add capacitor ageing, a small fan and an overloaded system rail, and you are asking for trouble.  Simple as that.

With PSUs you don't run things on the edge of whats possible, unless you're a fool.  And if even good PSUs only last 3 - 5 years as you claim, why does mine have a 7 year warranty?  Even Rosewill only think that PSU will last a year.  LOL>


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## 87dtna

OMG, I get it just fine you are the one that keeps talking about putting the rails together for the derating.  So just for that one statement I put the combined rail totals in there and you take it and run with it.  Yeah just proves my point even more.

These PSU's are obviously not derating as much as you think, and that is a FACT based on 3 years of service and replacement due to a cheap fan failure not even because it died.  There is no ''luck'' about 3 years, the way you are talking about this PSU you would even consider 6 months to be luck.  Even a good quality PSU will only last 3-5 years.  So obviously, you are just wrong.


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## Koku

bigfellla said:


> Stamped wattage means little, look at the 500W PSU amperage and certifications according to specficiation.  Also Rosewill is a brand.  NOT a quality mark.  As Strangle pointed out earlier, several cheap ass chinese manufacturers make Roeswill PSUs, so indeed, your 500W PSU may even be a better PSU.



This is why I stopped looking at the wattage for specifications, and put up the actual specs (Efficiency, Output, MFTB).

I asked to only compare the Rosewill's because that is what I wanted to discuss. You keep finding reasons to put my 600W Rosewill down on the bar, but you won't do the same for the 500W Rosewill. I don't see the logic behind this whatsoever. From what most of the people here have said, my 500W should have blown my computer to bits after 5 seconds.



bigfellla said:


> 600W Rosewill = 12V Rail @ 35A *MAX*. Get to this point = shutdown.  Derated = 26.7A max.  Including CPU.  *@ 50oC = 25 x 4W = 100W = 8.3A derating
> 500W Rosewill = 12V Rail @ 30A *MAX*.  Get to this point = shutdown.  Derated = 21.7 A max. Including CPU.*@ 50oC = 25 x 4W = 100W = 8.3A derating



I have no idea where you are getting 35A for the 600W compared to the 30A on the 500W




Computer_Freak said:


> as i say, for budget, no cooler will touch the Hyper 212 Evo. Get that. It even beats some more expensive coolers but quite a margin.
> 
> *Its the generally accepted Budget cooler for awesome performance.*



Best performance for the lowest price. This is the golden answer to anything. Thank you.



Computer_Freak said:


> now to go to PSU stuff again, post the specs or a picture of each sticker (that shows the wattage, rails, amps etc)
> 
> then we can show you from there



You can find a picture of the specs for the 500W Here, unfortunately for the 600W I would have to unplug my PC and yank it out and such. Considering its the same brand, I would hope it would be fine to just think off the top of your head what the 600W would be, comparing it to the 500W (480W? Well then). If not, that is fine. This is really getting nitpicky.




StrangleHold said:


> No, I didnt enter the discussion just to rag your power supply. *Kinda like if you had a car and wanted to know about the carburetor and a person noticed you had a small cheap battery and said, man you better upgrade that battery.* bigfellla just gave you information about your P/S. 87dtna came back and started the argument, in the sense from the above statement, that it starts the car, so its fine.



I love analogies. And it would have been perfectly fine if everyone had just told me that I had a "small cheap battery," but that is not what everyone told me. Everyone has been saying that I am just about to go over the edge, that my PSU is probably about to fry my PC at any given time now.

Even a "small cheap battery" can last out until it runs out of juice without any problems. Of course it wouldn't last or be as good as something of higher quality.



StrangleHold said:


> It looks like these were made by two different manufactures. The only advantage the 600 has over the 500 is the efficiency, but only slightly since they are rated at 25c. To answer your question, the 600 dumps alot more watts and amps. on the 5V rail. The 600 has 55 amps and the 500 only puts 15 amps. So the 600 only has a few more watts and amps. on the 12V rail. One is really no better then the other on the 12V rail.



While they may have been made by two different manufactures, I see no reason to believe that either of them was better then the other. Or, atleast, that one shouldn't be considered to be made by the worst possible manufactures and the other the best possible manufactures. Either way, everyone has been saying all of Rosewill's manufactures are extremely cheap.

I would have thought that the 7% efficiency it had over it would probably be the worse advantage is has over it. the +3.3V has an extra 8A, the +5V has an extra 39A (could be a bad thing? lmao), the +12V1 has an extra 4A, the +12V2 has an extra 3A. Those are pretty much the only output advantages (including 7% better efficiency).



All that I am trying to point out, is that if anything it was my 500W that was closest to being maxed out. I would think that with the 600W, I would certainly have a little bit of headroom, enough to add some small PCI-slot hardware, or crank the CPU MHz up just the slightest.

I can agree that they are _both_ extremely cheap, and I would probably be better off upgrading to something better. It's the fact I'm being told that if a bird lands on the tip of my car, its gonna go over the cliff with the 600W, when I've clearly ran with something smaller, of the same or cheaper quality for years.



StrangleHold said:


> One is really no better then the other on the 12V rail.



Assuming everyone would agree that the 600W_ is_ slightly better then the 500W, enough so to add a tiny bit of hardware or a tiny overclocking of the CPU without it going over with the headroom, this is the correct answer to the 500W vs 600W Rosewill branded PSU's. One is really no better then the other, as far as cheap parts go. I would assume it would die moreso from cheap parts then me trying to draw just the slightest bit more power from it.


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## Okedokey

87dtna said:


> OMG, I get it just fine you are the one that keeps talking about putting the rails together for the derating.  So just for that one statement I put the combined rail totals in there and you take it and run with it.  Yeah just proves my point even more.
> .





Koku said:


> I have no idea where you are getting 35A for the 600W compared to the 30A on the 500W



Mate, ive added them together from the total ability to provide wattage, divided by 12V = the amount of amps it can deliver.  So the PSU has 2 x 19A rails, however it can only deliver 430W on the 12V rail.  As shown here.  This is 35A for the 600W unit - not 38A.

For the 500W unit, its 350W total 12V rail divided by 12V = 29.16A or ~30A.

So 30A for the 500W unit combined total max.

and

35A for the 600W unit combined total max.

You then derate the TOTAL.

You then divide the total deration by the number of voltage dividers.  

You then take that number and subtract it from each rail amperage.

You then have an acutal total (real world) for that PSU.



Koku said:


> Assuming everyone would agree that the 600W_ is_ slightly better then the 500W, enough so to add a tiny bit of hardware or a tiny overclocking of the CPU without it going over with the headroom, this is the correct answer to the 500W vs 600W Rosewill branded PSU's. One is really no better then the other, as far as cheap parts go. I would assume it would die moreso from cheap parts then me trying to draw just the slightest bit more power from it.



Yes, but only by 5A unrated across 2 voltage divided rails.  So you get an extra 1.75A approximately additional head-room on the system and cpu rail by going with the 600W over the 500W.  That is 21W additional (approx) on each rail.  Essentially nothing - plus don't forget that is MAX.


----------



## 87dtna

The fact that they are only 30 and 35a only proves more so that they are not derating as much as you think.

Because 29.16a minus 30% is only 20.4a, divided by 2 is only 10.2a on each rail.  Again, it would go poof in a matter of minutes if it really was only putting out that kind of amperage.


And is the derating percentage necessarily linear for the 600w?  I really doubt it.


----------



## Okedokey

Wow, you really just don't get it do you.  I give up.


----------



## 87dtna

OK, you are simply not explaining it well.  But it seems it doesn't matter.  I even did it exactly your way and still got 10.2a-



> 35A for the 600W unit combined total max.
> 
> You then derate the TOTAL.
> 
> You then divide the total deration by the number of voltage dividers.
> 
> You then take that number and subtract it from each rail amperage.
> 
> You then have an acutal total (real world) for that PSU.



so, 29.16a for the 500w.

deration 30% is 8.75a

divided by 2 is 4.375

14.58 per rail minus 4.375 is 10.2a


Now I know I did that correct.  And it still came out to 10.2a even though you said I was doing it wrong it still came to the correct answer.


And I could quote you saying earlier that it's *atleast* 30% derating.  So I say AGAIN, it would have went poof in minutes of gaming.  Your derating is plain wrong.


----------



## Okedokey

Yes, you're a brilliant brain mate, clearly.

If you don't believe me, may be JohnnyGuru?  Probably the most well respected PSU reviewer?



> A power supply that is rated to put out 550W at 25°C or 30°C (room temperature) may only be able to put out 75% of that at 40°C or 50°C (actual operating temperature). This difference is called the "de-rating curve". A normal operating temperature for a power supply is 40°C.


 Here.

Even here, standard, he says 25%.  So yes, what I have been saying is true, more so for such a crap PSU which is why I said at least.  He goes on to say:



> most power supplies are rated at 20C and have a de-rating curve of -1W per +1°C. That means for every degree over 20°C, your maximum sustained output is reduced by 1W. So in a more typical ambient temperature of 50°C, a 500W power supply may only be able to output 440W.
> UPDATE: In PC Power and Cooling's "Power Supply Myths exposed" they show a "500W" with a de-rating curve of -4W/1°C.



So, Johnny Guru is doing it wrong too?

The point is you base one should base their judgement on a PSU based on worst case scenario, as I said above.  In which case it is 1 - 4W per degree.  Which, for 30oC is between 30W and 120W.  As I have already stated, given the quality of this PSU it is wise to go with the most conservative approach, being 120W deration.  This is 10A.  So yes my deration is plain RIGHT!.  Unless of course PC Power and Cooling, Johnny Guru are incorrect?

And if that isn't enough, the 500W was rated by HardOCP as a FAIL (literally):



> the RP500-2 was an old low end unit in a pretty package that was being overrated in our testing. The build quality and design of this unit is very low and old (in that order); however this isn't that surprising as many companies shovel this kind of product out in their entry level units simply because it is cheap and available. The voltage regulation for the RP500-2 was actually going very well until it died; twice. The efficiency was also very good, for 2 or 3 years ago. The DC Output quality was also very good until the unit died; twice. In the end, two dead units, dodgy components, and a very low end design make the non-shellshocker price of $49.99 a rotten egg.


 http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/02/16/entry_level_power_supply_roundup/14


----------



## 87dtna

> may only be able to put out 75% of that at 40°C or 50°C



Yeah that sounds the same as ''atleast 30%''


Looks like what Johnny is saying is 25% at the most....


So, I take it from your deflection that this time my equation is correct and YOUR figures come out to 10.2a on the rail for the 500w PSU....which proves you are full of crap.  It is literally impossible that the PSU only provided 10.2 amps to that rail, as the GPU card alone uses atleast that much.


----------



## Okedokey

Its not impossible, they go bang when they are tested, twice as per my previous thread.  The 75% derating was at 1W/degree, which he updated to up to 4W.  So yes, its altogther possible.  

End of the day, only a fool uses such a PSU and pushes it to its max.  Of course, you're right 87dtna, all the while, the rest of the world is wrong.  My apologies.

Even Rosewill de-rates their PSUs (both of them) by 20% at 50oC.  That is a 70W reduction on the 500W and 86W minimum on the 600W PSU.  Thats at best, so seriously, a 30% + derating factoring in real world conditions (e.g. dust, dodgy fans, overclocking, capacitor ageing etc) is sensible, and indeed backed up by PC Power and Cooling and JonnyGuru.  So EVEN Rosewill state that normal operating temperatures, the PSU can only deliver 12V rail combined minus 7.16A.  Thats Rosewill saying that, not me.  So my calculation of additional loss of around 30W on each rail is pretty good and close to reality.

When at that point, they fail, the OP may not have got there yet, but thats the whole point, when he does, (by either running a GPU intensive game, overlcocking, or running hard during summer), it can take out the other components too.

At the end of the day, it comes down to whether you think my +5% additional derating is correct.  Well, really, any person with a shred of knowledge wouldn't test me correct or otherwise with their gear would they.


----------



## Koku

bigfellla said:


> When at that point, they fail, the OP may not have got there yet, but thats the whole point, when he does, (by either running a GPU intensive game, overlcocking, or running hard during summer), it can take out the other components too.



Just to be clear, this is pretty much saying that any given PSU (even high quality ones) that happens to go from old age (cheap parts = less lifetime) could fry other components, correct?


----------



## Okedokey

Yes, which is why you get PSUs rated at 40oC with more than enough amperage on the 12v rail.  Good manufactures such as Corsair, XFX, Seasonic, PC Power and Cooling etc will have:

Active PFC
Efficiency above 80%
Single rail 12V (is better)
Large cooling fan (140mm) - manages derating by maintaining better temps
Japanese capacitors rated at 50oC or higher
Warranty of 5 years or more.

You get what you pay for, and the PSu is about the most important piece of kit.

However better quality PSUs will also have protection circuits to prevent taking out other components (it can still happen, but significantly less likely) and are continuous PSUs meaning they actually can deliver 100W or more than what they're rated at.  Basically a 500W Corsair is a 600W PSU, labelled correctly.

And just to add *, many cases here we're talking (estensively ) about 20 or 30 dollars more.  Not really a big deal and totally totally worth it.


----------



## Koku

bigfellla said:


> Yes, which is why you get PSUs rated at 40oC with more than enough amperage on the 12v rail.  Good manufactures such as Corsair, XFX, Seasonic, PC Power and Cooling etc will have:
> 
> Active PFC
> Efficiency above 80%
> Single rail 12V (is better)
> Large cooling fan (140mm) - manages derating by maintaining better temps
> Japanese capacitors rated at 50oC or higher
> Warranty of 5 years or more.
> 
> You get what you pay for, and the PSu is about the most important piece of kit.
> 
> However better quality PSUs will also have protection circuits to prevent taking out other components (it can still happen, but significantly less likely) and are continuous PSUs meaning they actually can deliver 100W or more than what they're rated at.  Basically a 500W Corsair is a 600W PSU, labelled correctly.
> 
> And just to add *, many cases here we're talking (estensively ) about 20 or 30 dollars more.  Not really a big deal and totally totally worth it.




I agree, the PSU certainly does set the limits as far as how much you could push your system.

But I really could care less about if anything goes 6 months from now (of course longer is better, though).

I do not want to push out another $80+ to replace a new PSU, but I really wouldn't mind if it was somewhere around $30-40, if that's even possible, although I doubt I could get anything significantly better then my current one for that price.

I honestly don't see my current one dying in the next 6 months.


----------



## Okedokey

Ok well thats your choice to make, but at least you now know the risk.  Previously the view was, itll work.  Im saying, personally, its not worth it.

Especially when you can get this for $38 which is so so, very much better.  Corsair CX430

Or this, CX500, which is better again, for $50 if you can stretch that far.

Its not the best PSU in the world, but light years better than that Rosewill.


----------



## Koku

bigfellla said:


> Ok well thats your choice to make, but at least you now know the risk.  Previously the view was, itll work.  Im saying, personally, its not worth it.
> 
> Especially when you can get this for $35 which is so so, very much better.  Corsair CX430
> 
> Or this, CX500, which is better again, for $50 if you can stretch that far.
> 
> Its not the best PSU in the world, but light years better than that Rosewill.



I've known the risk since like the second page, lmao.

Considering Corsair as a PSU brand has been suggested twice now, I'm sure it's a good brand.

Honestly speaking, would you really recommend the CX500 over the CX430? Would it really make a significant difference over the CX430 with my rig? Keep in mind, the rig that it would be put into will not be receiving any further upgrades as far as hardware.

And I'm going to assume that either could handle the simple 300MHz more of CPU power.


----------



## Okedokey

Yes the CX430 would be fine if you are not planning on putting in a very powerful GPU.  Even a mid range GPU will be fine on that PSU.


----------



## 87dtna

Laughing@both psu's recommended having 120mm fans and 3 year warranty.


Anyway, yeah my gtx550 Ti is twice as strong as your 9800gtx+ but actually consumes less power.  Newer technology does wonders.

If you are considering buying a new PSU, just do it right the first time and get the 500w to keep your options open for future upgrades.


----------



## Koku

87dtna said:


> Laughing@both psu's recommended having 120mm fans and 3 year warranty.
> 
> 
> Anyway, yeah my gtx550 Ti is twice as strong as your 9800gtx+ but actually consumes less power.  Newer technology does wonders.
> 
> If you are considering buying a new PSU, just do it right the first time and get the 500w to keep your options open for future upgrades.



I'm sure your GTX*** does consume less power, as it has smaller parts. This was basically the only con to buying the 9800GTX+ over one of the GTX*** series when they were new. They basically had the same specs, but consumed less power. 9800 was like $100 cheaper, though.

This is the reason I didn't want to shell out $80+ (again) just so I could have the option to upgrade. Most of the parts in my rig are already dated (they were already middle-class when I got them), and by the time I finished upgrading it to something more recent I would have already of tossed most if not all the parts.

$35 to stop the chance of my parts frying it perfectly reasonable, just like I'd pay for a power strip with surge protection for any kind of electronic device incase of a blackout.

Trust me, the next rig I build will most definitely have a $200-300 PSU, and would not work with a PSU under that.


----------



## Okedokey

The GTX550 ti is nowhere near twice as good.  It performs smilarly (5% better overall) than a 5770, which is about overall about 15% better than a 9800GTX.   The 550 is a pretty low end card, better yes, twice as good - definitely no.  Certainly not worth the upgrade!!  

But I just don't know what the hell that has to do with this topic?


----------



## Koku

bigfellla said:


> The GTX550 ti is nowhere near twice as good.  It performs smilarly (5% better overall) than a 5770, which is about overall about 15% better than a 9800GTX.   The 550 is a pretty low end card, better yes, twice as good - definitely no.  Certainly not worth the upgrade!!
> 
> But I just don't know what the hell that has to do with this topic?



I think he brought it up because GPU's are a common thing to upgrade (assuming you didn't already purchase the best prior), the selling point behind "Getting it right" with the CX500.



So, I'll most likely consider picking up the CX430 PSU.

Would anyone care to comment on the Cooler now?

the COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus or the Hyper 212 EVO?

Again, keep in mind that I'm simply looking for average/safe levels of heat (summers here average like 103F), not to be the coolest PC on the block. 5C below what would be average is just as good to me as 10C below average. Which would better suit _my _system?


----------



## 87dtna

Well, in real life, the gtx550 kicks the pants off a 9800gtx+.  I've also owned a 5770, and it's easily and definitely stronger.  That review must have been done with immature drivers.  I may have exagerated slightly, but it's atleast 50-60% better.  At the time my thoughts were on comparing it to my 8800gts 512mb, which is just a lower clocked 9800gtx+ and I know it's about 75% stronger than that.  Which lines up with the specs if you look at them as well.  gtx550 has 192 stream processors at 900 core clock, the 9800gtx+ has 128 sp's at 738 core clock.  The gtx550 has 1/2 again as many SP's, which already puts it at 50% better performance, and they are higher clocked.  Plus, the 550 has 30gb/s faster memory bandwidth, and of course 1gb of memory vs 512mb for the higher resolutions and AA/AF settings.

If you look up early reviews of the 5830, it showed it losing to the 5770 sometimes.  When in fact, once drivers matured it is WAY stronger than a 5770 in fact it's not even close.  It's much closer to 5850 performance.  See, I just don't look at reviews like you and call it a day, I've owned and benched about 50 cards.

Anyway, the OP mentioned something about when he upgrades the rest of his rig and power requirements so I was just mentioning newer cards are more powerful and consume less power.  I was not telling him to get a gtx550 at all.


----------



## 87dtna

OP- I would really go with the 500w corsair.  If you get the 430, you'll already be maxxed out again if you overclock.  Albeit, a safer max but still pretty much maxxed out.

And on the coolers- They are both 4 heatpipe direct touch coolers, I cannot see how the evo is worth 35% more cost especially considering your needs.


----------



## Computer_Freak

Koku said:


> the COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus or the Hyper 212 EVO?



The EVO and the + are the same thing. same heatsink, same cooler, same everything

the only difference is at the bottom. The Heatpipes are closer together (old design the middle 2 would take most strain, and outer 2 not so much) and they are now joined more "seamlessly" so you dont have the aluminium separators.

basically they refined the cooler to be what it should have been in the beginning.

get the EVO


----------



## Okedokey

87dtna said:


> OP- I would really go with the 500w corsair.  If you get the 430, you'll already be maxxed out again if you overclock.  Albeit, a safer max but still pretty much maxxed out.



Rubbish, even derated that PSU can still provide sufficient amperage for that maxed out system with plenty left over.


----------



## 87dtna

bigfellla said:


> Rubbish, even derated that PSU can still provide sufficient amperage for that maxed out system with plenty left over.



It's 28a on the 12v rail.  12a for the card, 5a for cpu, 3-4a for running board and misc accessories.  So we are over 20 already.  What about if he decides to overclock?  Say he overclocks the card and that starts using 14a, overclocked cpu 6-7, and then 3-4 for accessories and now we are at atleast 24a on a 28a before derating.  I wouldn't call that plenty left over, looks fairly maxxed to me.

And that wasn't even my point as running his current setup is no huge concern really.  I said, for future upgrades.  That way his PSU is already covered.  What if he gets a 95w cpu, and a stronger graphics card that consumes more in the future?  Then he's screwed and needs to buy a new PSU again.


----------



## Okedokey

You only need to derate that PSU by 10 - 20W (10oC @ 1 - 2W per degree) due to its quality and rating.  Thats less than 1A.  Also, this PSU can provide the full 27/28A continuously, with no issues. 

Thirdly the OP asked for a PSU that will suit his current setup,now, for 30 - 40 bucks.  Within that boundary, this is fine.   And under that boundary, this PSU is no where near maxed.


----------



## 87dtna

3-4 amps away is no where near maxxed?  Uhh your 1200w PSU is like 35-40 amps away from max on the 12v rail you know that right?  A quality 850w PSU would power your rig no problem.  You're like the king of overkill and you only want to give him 3-4 amps of headroom?  wow.

A CPU upgrade alone could take that up, then he has no room for GPU upgrade.

I think you are arguing with me just to disagree with anything I say.  Because you suggesting a non overkill PSU just doesn't fit your MO.


His best bet is to watch the classifieds and snag a decent PSU for cheap there.  Konsole has a 500w antec earthwatts (great PSU) for $40 shipped right now-

http://www.computerforum.com/203441-c2d-e8400-2gb-ddr2-hd-4870-gpu-asrock-775-mobo-500-w-antec.html

Thats such a good deal that honestly I might buy it if the OP doesn't.  Thats the older model earthwatts when seasonic was building them, great quality PSU.


----------



## Okedokey

You are correct about the Antec PSU being decent, however its second hand, in a basically unknown condition and without warranty.  Its not a good deal, because for $9 more you can get the CX500 which has:

* A higher order ATX specification
* A much larger fan = better cooling and quieter
* Various protection circuits not found in the older seasonic build
* A 3 year warranty - not included in your second hand unit

For $9 -  much smarter purcahse than some second hand unit - regardless of what it could do when new.

You're right, if the OP wants head room, then the CX430 isn't the right PSU, but it certainly isn’t going to be maxed by the current build even if overclocked, and it is in the 35 - 40 dollar price point.  That was the brief.  In fact he could easily put in a GTX560ti, and using your calculations (finger in the air style), it would run fine.  And given games like BF3 don't give a rats about the CPU, it would play it great on high settings.  So it comes down to the OP.

I am answering his question.  I did about the cooler, I did about whether overclocking 'could' be done (no given current power limitations), and I am now about what PSU he can get that allows him to overclock for $40.  If the brief changes, and the budget goes up, then I would suggest something better, but until then...


----------



## 87dtna

Oh no, you are stooping to my level.  lol

In no way have I claimed anything false.  In your opinion, I have.  You seem to think you can back this up with facts, and I have proven you are plain wrong in your calculations (IE remember 10.2a on the 12v rail of the 500w psu by your calculations?) of PSU derating.

Putting that aside, I'm not sure where you get the figure of $9 more for the CX500.  First of all, you cannot count mail in rebates.  Half of the time you never get them back, 90% of the time they take FOREVER, and thirdly you must put out the expense upfront of that mail in rebate.
It's $59.99 (for some reason you truncated and call 99 cents 0, I call it a dollar), so the initial cost is $20 more than the corsair.  And also, lest you forget, there is an additional $2 for shipping on the corsair.  So the Antec for $40, a known working PSU and very high quality solid unit.  Or, $62 for the corsair with your fancy warranty (which by the way is 3 years not 5, and also it has a 120mm fan which according to you is insufficient).  So for all intents and purposes, the cx500 is $22 more, or more than 1/2 again the cost of the antec.

And for some reason you keep concerning yourself with this fan.  OMG, all of these PSU's are highly efficient and do not need a lot of airflow.  Stop beating the insignificant horse already.

And also, I can't for the life of me wonder why you are soooo concerned about having this warranty on such a good quality unit thats not gonna blow up his system like the cheap rosewill.



bigfellla said:


> You're right



lol


----------



## Koku

As I've already said, I will NOT be adding/upgrading anymore hardware for my current PC.

The biggest bottleneck in my PC is my CPU, and I think getting it to 3GHz (244 extra MHz) would give it small extra boost.

Back when I built it, I believe it cost me about $600-700, not including a monitor, and I've already dumped about an extra $200 into it over the past 3+ years to keep up. So far, I've been able to play every new game in the past few years I've thrown at it on medium (Very graphic intense games, including Crysis) to high (surprised Skyrim runs smooth on High for me) settings.

But really, you can only go so far before the main (and most expensive) pieces of your PC just become dated as far as hardware capabilities, until its just better to buy something new altogether.



The point of me buying a new PSU isn't because it gives better specs then my current, its because its _safer_ (while still being generally cheap) then my current PSU. I won't be buying a second-hand PSU (I like the smell of new things!..), but thank you for the suggestion.


@bigfellla, could I bother you to do your mathematics/calculations on the CX430 vs the Rosewill 600w assuming the PC was in a 110F environment? A nice comparison of how much watts/amps/power would be available on each rail would be real helpful.

And given the specs of the CX430, about how much overclocking could you get out of an E6750 CPU while still being in a relatively safe zone?


----------



## Okedokey

Ok, 

To begin with 110F = 43oC approximately

The Rosewill PSU has 2 x 19A rails rated at 25oC.  For every 1oC above 25oC in this case it would account for 4W derating given the low quality build etc.  In fact, many would rate this at 20oC, the more likely testing environment, but we'll be kind (it makes no difference anyway).

So at 43oC the Rosewill will derate by 72W or 6A.  However the operating temperature is likely to be above that so that, so account for that.  This derating applies to the total power output ability being 420W (35A) if I remember correctly on the combined 12V rail.  This means that the _derated _12V rail can only provide a total of 348W (29A), spread over 2 rails evenly.  *However*, that means the system rail and the CPU rail get 14.5A each max, derated @ 43oC.

The Corsair is easy to calculate as it is rated for 30oC so its a delta 13oC.  In fact many of the components in that PSU are rated at 40oC.  Given its reasonable quality I would derate it at 2W/oC = 26W or 2.16A derating.  The Corsair is a single rail, so *all *25.8A (derated) are available.

Take the overclock:

CPU:  From 65W to say 90W (this is an overestimate I am sure) = 7.5A
Graphics:  From 150W TDP to say 175W (again overestimate) = 14.6A
Rest of system:  50W (probably less) = 4.16A

System rail load = 18.75A max
CPU rail load = 7.5A max

Total = 26.25A / 315W total system - upper estimate.  I would be very suprised if you used this much, but its an upper estimate for your 'safety' equation.

That means that:

The Rosewill will probably fail on the system rail very quickly - given that it can only provide 14.5A of the possibly required 18.75A on that overclocked scenario.  You can see now why it would (in summer etc) probably go bang.  Even if it were a continuous PSU (which it isn't) it would be near 100% load due to its design limitations. 

The Corsair will be able to provide clean and more than sufficient power for 3 or more years at 43oC (110F) plus given that it can deliver 26A + (its a continous PSU), in fact it probably can deliver more.  But the derating is conservative.  So 26A of the required 26A max.  Not a problem whatsoever, in fact the efficiency will be excellent.

As you can see, even in this hypothetical maximum, its going to run at 100%, BUT being a continuous PSU, it wont be a problem, even at 43oC.  You won't however, ever pull 315W with that system.

This is all worst case scenario of course.  Looking into the internals of that PSU, the 12V rail rectifiers (these) can actually deliver 514W at 125oC.  As you can see, the benefit of a continous psu.  So even if you somehow got that system so overclocked, that it was going to pull 315W, the Corsair would be fine.  The Rosewill, definitely not.  Ideally, if you have a 20 you can throw at it, get the 500W Corsair, but seriously, you will be doing very well to max that CX430.  Even if you did, it can handle it.  In fact JohnnyGuru tested it at 427W (near max) at 43oC and it was fine.


----------



## 87dtna

OMG, so now you are saying the 430w PSU will be maxxed....when you argued with me so much when I said before if he gets the 430 and overclocks it will be maxxed.  Jeez now I know for sure you just argue simply to disagree with anything I say.  I agreed that the PSU will handle 100% load, but it will be maxxed.  And if he gets a quad core and say a gtx560 Ti in the future he'll be screwed with the 430 and have to buy another PSU vs if he just gets the 500 now there's no problem for a very long time.


----------



## Okedokey

87dtna said:


> OMG, so now you are saying the 430w PSU will be maxxed....when you argued with me so much when I said before if he gets the 430 and overclocks it will be maxxed.  Jeez now I know for sure you just argue simply to disagree with anything I say.  I agreed that the PSU will handle 100% load, but it will be maxxed.  And if he gets a quad core and say a gtx560 Ti in the future he'll be screwed with the 430 and have to buy another PSU vs if he just gets the 500 now there's no problem for a very long time.



are you still here?  Did you even read his last post?  He told you he's not getting any more hardware.  Period, so quit it.  Sheesh.

Thats a complete and absolute max.  The same way engineers build buildings for the 1 in 100 year cyclone.  Its simply not going to happen, and if for some very strange reason it does, it can take it, why, its a continuous PSU.  

Stick to the brief mate, you have already been told that by the OP.


----------



## 87dtna

He also said he wasn't getting a new PSU to you about 5 times atleast.  So, whatever ''mate''.  Now it just suits what you want so thats good enough now.   I was making arguments base on the fact he did not want to get a new PSU, now if he's gonna get one he might as well do it right the first time.

His PC is already fairly obsolete, an upgrade within a year will most likely be mandatory if he wants to continue gaming.


----------



## Okedokey

He wasn't getting a new PSU because you spent the first 3 pages arguing that his Rosewill 600W PSU was sufficient even for an overclocked system, LOL, in fact in your very first post you said:



87dtna said:


> And on your PSU, it is a lower quality unit but your PC does not pull that much wattage.  The risk of a small overclock is extremely minimal.  *A good quality 400w PSU would power your rig with zero issues*.



So now, a Corsair 430W PSU with a HIGHER _available _amperage than the original 600W Rosewill, is somehow insufficient?  You're making a fool of yourself mate.

The issue is this:

The current PSU is not good quality and has insufficient amperage on the system rail even without an overclock for conditions that can be expected such as summer gaming.

The CX430 meets the OPs requirements:


Not second hand
Up to $40
With sufficient ability to supply power to a reasonably overclocked system

This is because of its design and quality.  Instead of trapping any 'unused' amperage on the 12V+1, (CPU rail), all of the amperage after derating is available as needed.  This is why the CX430 with 170W less nameplate, has 26A available, whereas the Rosewill 600W only has  around 20A once you factor in the old ATX design standard and 240AC current isolation.

My _hypothetical _situation where everything was pulling much more than possibly ever encounted (~26A), is simply to illustrate how well that PSU CAN handle his requirements (being a continuous PSU).  In a realistic situation, the Corsair PSU is not going to be maxed by that system, the Diewill will be (do just that - die).

Stick to the OPs requirements and how about quitting the trolling.  If the OP wants headroom for more hardware, he can say it, and we can show him a better alternative, but as it stands, the CX430 is fine and completely within the brief.

To make it simply, here is a picture of the comparison:






So as you can see, wattage means little, and a PSU that starts out with more amps, is quickly embarrased by basic design limitations and derating curves.  Take home message, the CX430 can provide your computer with sufficient power at an insane overclock in summer (at 110F).


----------



## Computer_Freak

ohhhhh graphs. I love graphs....

guys cmon. this is out of hand.


----------



## 87dtna

bigfellla said:


> He wasn't getting a new PSU because you spent the first 3 pages arguing that his Rosewill 600W PSU was sufficient even for an overclocked system, LOL, in fact in your very first post you said:



He told you before I entered the thread as well.



bigfellla said:


> So now, a Corsair 430W PSU with a HIGHER _available _amperage than the original 600W Rosewill, is somehow insufficient?  You're making a fool of yourself mate.



Now I know 100% you cannot read.  I said atleast 3-4 times that the cx430 would run his rig fine, but for future upgrades it would be insufficient.  Yes he said he wasn't getting new hardware but he also said he wasn't getting a new PSU.  You seriously cannot read, you read want you want to see.

You will never find that I stated anywhere the CX430 not enough for his current rig.  I said when overclocked it would be maxxed, which YOU even agreed with.  Maxxed does not mean insufficient, as we've covered this and I never disagreed that the corsair can run at 100% all day long.  My entire point once he agreed to get a new PSU was if you are going to get a new one get a little more for future upgrades.


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## StrangleHold

If the dude is going to upgrade his power supply, he should get something better then the CX430. I would atleast get the CX500/600 or Seasonic S12II 520 or Silverstone ST50F-ES 500W or XFX PRO550W. Make it worth your while.


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## Okedokey

Hes got $40. CX430 is plenty for his needs.  I am just answering his question.


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## 87dtna

Then he's in trouble because he'll have to put out $47 to get the PSU in his possession.


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## Okedokey

87dtna said:


> Then he's in trouble because he'll have to put out $47 to get the PSU in his possession.



What?  It has always said $37 and now at $17 after rebate.  Bargain . http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026


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## 87dtna

Way to wait until the price changed for black friday to reply 


The price WAS $44.99 with $1.99 shipping, and then a $10 mail in rebate.


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## Okedokey

Well, the price is now normally $36 so on every level you have completed your inaccuracy.  Well done.


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## 87dtna

lol, and it'll only be there for 2 days most likely for the sale.  And for most of the time, including when you first recommended it in this thread, it has been at $47 shipped.  I'm sure it will return to that soon, and when it does I'll be sure to post in the thread to make you ''inaccurate'' then


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