# Thinking about picking up this video card



## swensoch

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121291R to replace my 4670.  I know its open box but I can always return it.


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## Fatback

You can get a brand new one for just a little more.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131140

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102850


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## swensoch

is that the best performance for the price?


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## Fatback

The 4870 is just as good as the GTX 260 which is around $150 for the lowest priced one. There really is nothing better then the 4870 for the price the 4850 is a great card I have one and the only game have I have played that I can't max out is Flight Simulator X but that's it I haven't had a problem with Fear 2, Fuel , Call of Juarez, Moto GP 08,2,3, or hawk so the 4850 is a really nice card for the price and It would be a much better Idea to get a 4850 then a opened box 4870 I have bought a pretty good bit of opened box item from newegg and always end up sending 85% of them back.


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## bomberboysk

What PSU are you running? Your the one who was offering the $20 reward awhile back right? If you are then i think you ended up getting a 500W stablepower, and if thats the case it will run a 4870 fine. Although id do as suggested and get one of the retail's, open box have no accessories and are alot more likely to have been abused by someone trying to overclock too hard, or just a plain old defective card.


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## 87dtna

Best bang for the buck is the 4870.   As others have mentioned make sure your power supply is up to it, I'm not sure if 500w will do it.  An Antec 500 wasn't enough for my rig, and a 4870 uses a little more power than a gts250.


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## Fatback

87dtna said:


> Best bang for the buck is the 4870.   As others have mentioned make sure your power supply is up to it, I'm not sure if 500w will do it.  An Antec 500 wasn't enough for my rig, and a 4870 uses a little more power than a gts250.



The 4870 is a great card and for $130 you can't beat it.

Did you ever wonder if maybe the Antec power supply you got was a bad one rather then it not being powerful enough.


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## 87dtna

Fatback said:


> The 4870 is a great card and for $130 you can't beat it.
> 
> Did you ever wonder if maybe the Antec power supply you got was a bad one rather then it not being powerful enough.



Not at all, it's powering my intel rig now thats in my sig no problem.   
The antec has two 19 amp 12v rails, it's just not a super powerful PSU.


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## Fatback

87dtna said:


> Not at all, it's powering my intel rig now thats in my sig no problem.
> The antec has two 19 amp 12v rails, it's just not a super powerful PSU.



That doesn't seem right my 400w corsair powers my rig with plenty left over and my 4850 uses about the same power as your GTS 250 although you do have more RAM but your CPU uses less power. I have never had a problem with Antec power supplies and I have used them in a lot of builds. Although you could have still go a bad one that was putting out the amps it was supposed to.


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## 87dtna

TDP on a 4850 is 110w, gts 250 is 145w.  And my gts 250 is overclocked, a lot.  825 core clock and 1350 memory, stock is 756/1100.

My 550 is also overclocked to 3.8, that increased the watt usage a good bit.  And 8650 may be rated at 95, but thats a joke it could be a 65w rated CPU.  They don't use much at all.  The phenom 9650 is the exact same thing 2.3ghz but quad core, and is the same 95w rating.  It's quite impossible that they consume the same amount of power.  The 8650 is overrated on it's power usage.


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## Fatback

87dtna said:


> TDP on a 4850 is 110w, gts 250 is 145w.  And my gts 250 is overclocked, a lot.  825 core clock and 1350 memory, stock is 756/1100.
> 
> My 550 is also overclocked to 3.8, that increased the watt usage a good bit.  And 8650 may be rated at 95, but thats a joke it could be a 65w rated CPU.  They don't use much at all.  The phenom 9650 is the exact same thing 2.3ghz but quad core, and is the same 95w rating.  It's quite impossible that they consume the same amount of power.  The 8650 is overrated on it's power usage.



Even with all that the Antec should power that just fine I have used 500w Antec power supplies to power system with Phenom II X4 945, GTX 260, 8GB of DDR3, 500GB HD, etc. I have built 4 system with the exact same specs for a small graphics design business and all 4 systems used this power supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007 which only has 17A on each rail and it power all 4 system perfectly it has been almost 7 months since then and they must still be working because I have yet to get a phone call from them.


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## 87dtna

Fatback said:


> Even with all that the Antec should power that just fine I have used 500w Antec power supplies to power system with Phenom II X4 945, GTX 260, 8GB of DDR3, 500GB HD, etc. I have built 4 system with the exact same specs for a small graphics design business and all 4 systems used this power supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007 which only has 17A on each rail and it power all 4 system perfectly it has been almost 7 months since then and they must still be working because I have yet to get a phone call from them.




Hmm, not sure but it powers my intel rig just fine.  It will power my AMD rig if I don't overclock so much, overclocking greatly increases the watt usage.  A GTX260 is rated at 182w TDP, my overclocked gts250 is probably easily the same.  And my cpu being 3.8ghz even dual core is probably close to or even the same as the 945 at stock speeds as well.

I didn't use the earthwatts, I have the BP500U.  Perhaps that makes a difference, but it actually has 2 more amps per rail than the earthwatts.  Strange.


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## Fatback

87dtna said:


> Hmm, not sure but it powers my intel rig just fine.  It will power my AMD rig if I don't overclock so much, overclocking greatly increases the watt usage.  A GTX260 is rated at 182w TDP, my overclocked gts250 is probably easily the same.  And my cpu being 3.8ghz even dual core is probably close to or even the same as the 945 at stock speeds as well.
> 
> I didn't use the earthwatts, I have the BP500U.  Perhaps that makes a difference, but it actually has 2 more amps per rail than the earthwatts.  Strange.



Oh you have the BP I believe those are lesser quality then the earthwatts but I'm not sure even though it sill sounds strange.


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## 87dtna

Fatback said:


> Oh you have the BP I believe those are lesser quality then the earthwatts but I'm not sure even though it sill sounds strange.



Yeah BP means ''Basiq''....they weren't kidding LOL.  I only payed $55 for it at the local computer store, and like I said it powers my intel rig no problem.  And even though you frown on HEC the $45 650w unit thats powering my AMD rig has not had any problems plus now I'm even powering a quad core at 3.8 instead of a dual which is atleast 50 more watts.


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## Fatback

87dtna said:


> Yeah BP means ''Basiq''....they weren't kidding LOL.  I only payed $55 for it at the local computer store, and like I said it powers my intel rig no problem.  And even though you frown on HEC the 650w thats powering my AMD rig has not had any problems plus now I'm even powering a quad core at 3.8 instead of a dual which is atleast 50 more watts.



Well when it some to off brand PSU usually there is one good one out of a couple thousand last 3 hec PSU I bought was a 550w and when I pushed the power button it blew up sparks came flying out it smoked my shop up took the HDD with it in one machine so when I think of hec PSU I think just another cheap brand.


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## 87dtna

Fatback said:


> Well when it some to off brand PSU usually there is one good one out of a couple thousand last 3 hec PSU I bought was a 550w and when I pushed the power button it blew up sparks came flying out it smoked my shop up took the HDD with it in one machine so when I think of hec PSU I think just another cheap brand.



It really seems like all the manufacturers like to send you the bad stuff.

The HEC I bought was their new ''X-power'' line, maybe they are better now.


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## swensoch

I actually got a 700w power supply and gave my grandpa the 500w one I had purchased so I think I am covered.  So the 4870 for 130$ is what I should go for?  Newegg actually gave me 75$ towards my next order because of crap that happened in my last order so that is why I am upgrading. And I am supposed to use the 75$ this week.  I like the 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102850

should i fork up 15 more$ for the 1gb?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102849


As for the open box yeah I realized that I was most likely going to have to send it back but I was prepared for that.  Was thinking of picking up a cheap LCD open box from there too.

The PSU i have is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817148040.  It was in a deal package with a 50$ harddrive for 90$ so I got it.


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## 87dtna

The wattage means nothing.  I had an 800w power supply overheat on me, a cheap one from ''A-power''.  It even had a 120mm fan and two 30 amp rails.


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## swensoch

The PSU seemed decent and not cheap.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817148040


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## Fatback

swensoch said:


> The PSU seemed decent and not cheap.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817148040



That PSU is crap the only thing Apevia does good with there PSU is throw some pretty lights in them other then they are are just a big paper weight. I you won't a quality PSU that will power a 4870 the get one of these.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341016

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341017

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703015

PC power and Cooling is the best PSU you can get and will power way more then any PSU out there. Other good brands are OCZ, Corsair, Antec, FSP, Seasonic, etc.


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## StrangleHold

How many watts a card can pull is based on what is powering it, regardless if its overclocked or not.

PCIe 1.0 slot will put out 75W
PCIe 2.0 slot can put out 100W
6 pin PCIe connector is 75W
8 pin PCIe connector is 150W

If the card is in a PCIe 2.0 slot with one 6 pin PCIe power connector the most it can pull is 175W overclocked or not.
In a PCIe 2.0 slot with two PCIe 6 pin connectors it can pull up to 250W.


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## Fatback

StrangleHold said:


> How many watts a card can pull is based on what is powering it, regardless if its overclocked or not.
> 
> PCIe 1.0 slot will put out 75W
> PCIe 2.0 slot can put out 100W
> 6 pin PCIe connector is 75W
> 8 pin PCIe connector is 150W
> 
> If the card is in a PCIe 2.0 slot with one 6 pin PCIe power connector the most it can pull is 175W overclocked or not.



Who is this posted towards and what does this have to do with helping the op just curious.


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## StrangleHold

Fatback said:


> Who is this posted towards and what does this have to do with helping the op just curious.


 
What ever slot your board has and the type of PCIe power connectors the card has can give you a good example of the most power your card can pull overclocked or not to determine what kind of power supply you need.


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## Fatback

StrangleHold said:


> What ever slot your board has and the type of PCIe power connectors the card has can give you a good example of the most power your card can pull overclocked or not to determine what kind of power supply you need.



Oh ok I see what your saying your just trying to help him pick a PSU.


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## swensoch

So my 700w PSU wont power the 4870 because it is crap?  What about the 500w?  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817189014

I already have both of these.  I also have 2 hard drives set up in raid 0 but no CD drives or floppy drives so not too much stuff sucking up wattage.

Also can someone link me the best video card for less than 150$ on newegg.  I am having a hard time deciding the brand and type.  The 4870 looks good.


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## Fatback

That PSU will work fine with the 4870 the best 4870 to get is the XFX because that are good quality and nice cooling and you get a double life time warranty.


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## swensoch

Ok.  I am thinking about returning the PSU because I read all over the internet about how it goes nowhere near the 700w they advertise.  I will figure it all out and let you guys know.   I am getting http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150394.


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## Fatback

swensoch said:


> Ok.  I am thinking about returning the PSU because I read all over the internet about how it goes nowhere near the 700w they advertise.  I will figure it all out and let you guys know.   I am getting http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150394.



That's why you don't by cheap PSU always buy a name brand. That card is the one I was talking about.


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## swensoch

I just did the wattage calculator on http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine and I got 369 watts for my suggested power supply and that is with the 4870.  Not too worried.  Last question.  which of the 2 power supplies should I use the 500w or the 700w?  is the 500w that much more reliable?


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## Fatback

swensoch said:


> I just did the wattage calculator on http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine and I got 369 watts for my suggested power supply and that is with the 4870.  Not too worried.  Last question.  which of the 2 power supplies should I use the 500w or the 700w?  is the 500w that much more reliable?



I wouldn't use that 700w PSU to power my iPod that how terrible those cheap things are the Xclio Stable Power is a very good PSU and I have used it a couple of times. Watts is one of the last things you look at when buying a PSU first thing you should look at is the Amps on the +12 rail(s).


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## swensoch

haha.  That ipod comment made me laugh hard.  And got the point accross.  So I just got an RMA on the PSU but i had to give the 500w one to my grandpa because I built him a computer.  What should I look for in my next one?  i heard corsair is good.  mushkin?


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## Fatback

swensoch said:


> haha.  That ipod comment made me laugh hard.  And got the point accross.  So I just got an RMA on the PSU but i had to give the 500w one to my grandpa because I built him a computer.  What should I look for in my next one?  i heard corsair is good.  mushkin?



I wasn't kidding about the iPod either The brands you should look for PC Power and Cooling, Corsair, OCZ, FSP, Seasonic, Antec, Thermaltake, Xclio, and the higher end cooler masters are pretty good what is you budget and I will help you find one. You could just get another Xclio Stablepower unless you want something different.


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## swensoch

I want to try something different.  See whats out there.  Maybe 600watts so i can add whatever I want in the future.  50-65$ seems like a decent budget.


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## Fatback

this one is $75 with $5 off with promo code EMCLWNL37 which is only $70 with free shipping that is probably going to be the cheapest 600w PSU that is good quality plus it modular which means you only plug the cables in that you need.

Here are some other ones that you can look at if you ever plan on getting another 4870 for crossfire then you might won't  to consider something around a 650w corsair or a 700w OCZ.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703016

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341016

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151040


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## 87dtna

StrangleHold said:


> How many watts a card can pull is based on what is powering it, regardless if its overclocked or not.
> 
> PCIe 1.0 slot will put out 75W
> PCIe 2.0 slot can put out 100W
> 6 pin PCIe connector is 75W
> 8 pin PCIe connector is 150W
> 
> If the card is in a PCIe 2.0 slot with one 6 pin PCIe power connector the most it can pull is 175W overclocked or not.
> In a PCIe 2.0 slot with two PCIe 6 pin connectors it can pull up to 250W.




PCIe 2.0 can put out 150w.....total being 225 watts max.


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## StrangleHold

87dtna said:


> PCIe 2.0 can put out 150w.....total being 225 watts max.


 
Thats just the specifications for it. Most boards are not wired for it and only put out 100W. Some are still stuck at 75W. Thats why some cards will trip a power supply PCIe power lead, causing a restart. Not getting enough from the slot and will overload the rail the PCIe power connector is on. Even though the Supply has enough power for the card.

They go out a buy a bigger Supply, the problem is fixed they think because of the supply. When all it was is the bigger supply had a higher limit with the wattage on the 12V rail the PCIe connector it attached too.


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## 87dtna

Yup I had that problem with my old ASRock board.  PSU should have had plenty of power for a gts-250, but it was indeed that PCI-e slot that wasn't giving enough juice when I overclocked it.  With the new gigabyte board, overclocking is much more stable now.
I was only setting the record straight that the ''theroretical'' max wattage for a PCI-e 2.0 with a 6 pin power connector is 225w not 175w.


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## swensoch

I keep hearing about how loud the 4870 is and how hot it gets.  I have pretty good air flow in my case.  Any ideas for a quieter cooler that may be better than the one I get on the card?


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## Aastii

swensoch said:


> I keep hearing about how loud the 4870 is and how hot it gets.  I have pretty good air flow in my case.  Any ideas for a quieter cooler that may be better than the one I get on the card?



you can get a passive one, but they arn't too good without decent airflow.

If as you say you do have good airflow, arctic cooling accelero s1 is what i would recomend:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186016

It will handle the heat easily, but as i say with a little airflow.

You can get fans for it but they are crap to say the least. They are cheap though (the fans i mean) so what can you expect?

You can get a 120mm fan on it if you want to keep it cooler and get something like speedfan to drop the fan speed (free program) so it is quiet like how you want it.

however, i really would say the stock hs and fan will be more than sufficient and isn't as loud as "some people" are making out


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## swensoch

Alright cool.  I will wait and see how loud it is.  Yeah I have a 80mm fan blowing right at the card from one side and then a 120mm fan blowing at it that allows air to go on both sides of the card.  Then I have 2 other 120mm fans one blowing in and the other out and another 80mm taking out the top.  Is it much louder than the 4670?  Can I hot glue a 80mm fan or 120mm fan to that heatsink?


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## swensoch

Got the card yesterday and damn I was surprised.  It was huge! Fits easily inside my case though.  First card like this I have had.  Been using it for just about 1 hour now.  Downloading crysis.  Its running at 61c even though im just surfing the web and downloading a couple thing.  Is this normal?


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## Fatback

Yea the temps should start to go down after a few days once the card gets worked in a little. Go to CCC and go to ATI Overdrive and make sure that the fan is set to auto or you can set it at what ever speed you like. I keep my fan about 70% some people don't like fan noise but It doesn't bother me. Also how is the airflow in your case what kind of fans do you have in there.


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## swensoch

I have 5 fans placed in my case with and 4 additional smaller ones that blow on my hard drives.  2 120mm intake in the front.  1 80mm intake in the side.  1 120mm that blows out the back and a 80mm that blows out the top.  My case is also a cube that has a smaller area inside than a full tower.  The airflow in there is high. Everything else in my case is really cool. Just started playing crysis in enthusiast settings with an easy 25 frames ps average.  Gamer was around 38-40. Bout to overclock my processor a little bit.  Thanks for helping me out up until now I had a ati 9600 for 6 years and then a 4670 for 1 month and now this.  Its awesome.

Wow I just tried the fan thing.  It was on auto and just running at around 40% on its own.  Moved it up to 70% and 30 seconds later its down to 46c.   Any point to overclock a little?  My GPU clock is at 750 and my memory is 900mhz but I can see I am able to move it up.  44c now .

Funny thing happened though.  I went to power my computer and it didnt post so I had to turn off the PSU manually.  I could then hear the PSU making high pitched hissing noises that I guess are capacitors.  I can now only power the psu on its own and even then the fan looks like it is spinning really slow.  If it is plugged into a motherboard it will not turn on.  I ran to frys and picked up a coolmax  PSU.  Probably not the best brand but I didnt want to spend a ton since I will hopefully be getting a replacement on my Xclio.


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## Fatback

swensoch said:


> I have 5 fans placed in my case with and 4 additional smaller ones that blow on my hard drives.  2 120mm intake in the front.  1 80mm intake in the side.  1 120mm that blows out the back and a 80mm that blows out the top.  My case is also a cube that has a smaller area inside than a full tower.  The airflow in there is high. Everything else in my case is really cool. Just started playing crysis in enthusiast settings with an easy 25 frames ps average.  Gamer was around 38-40. Bout to overclock my processor a little bit.  Thanks for helping me out up until now I had a ati 9600 for 6 years and then a 4670 for 1 month and now this.  Its awesome.
> 
> Funny thing happened though.  I went to power my computer and it didnt post so I had to turn off the PSU manually.  I could then hear the PSU making high pitched hissing noises that I guess are capacitors.  I can now only power the psu on its own and even then the fan looks like it is spinning really slow.  If it is plugged into a motherboard it will not turn on.  I ran to frys and picked up a coolmax  PSU.  Probably not the best brand but I didnt want to spend a ton since I will hopefully be getting a replacement on my Xclio.



Not bad for crysis personally I would turn the settings down a little and go for better FPS but that's just me.

That high pitched sound is pretty common in PSU. I think the reason the fan is spinning slow is because of the temp sensor the fan will not speed up until it gets hot. You should hook it back up and see if it will turn on then download Everest and check the voltages on the +12 rails and the 5v rail. With all those fans running like you say they are it might be sucking up to much power but that shouldn't be the case.


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## swensoch

im pretty sure its dead.  I plugged it in to 2 other computers same thing.  It will not turn on with the pci power plugged in.  it is showing many signs of a failing psu.


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