# What is better? core2duo e7500 or Phenom x4 9650



## gimmigzgy

I really dont know which brand makes a good processor.
I'm running now a:

core2duo e7500 2.93ghz 3mb L2 cache
ECS g31
I3d 9500gt 1gb 128bit ddr2 PCI-e
2gb Apacer 667 ddr2
160gb Sata HDD
17" LCD monitor

I'm into gaming and media editing(photoshop, aftereffects)

Do you think it would be better for me to upgrade my procie and mobo with an
AMD Phenom x4 9650 2.3ghz 2mb L2 cache, still with the same pc specs?

would I notice the difference?

I am not really satisfied with my core2duo procie, cuz NBA 2k9 won't even run smoothly, but my friend's computer (AMD athlon64 x2 2.6, with the same pc specs as mine but lower ram, only 1gb) runs nba 2k9 much smoother than my PC.

I really dont know how come it's like that.

Seeing the difference,
it made me to see that AMD's early version of dual core's are better than Intel's Newest versions of Dual Cores(namely core2duo's).

Guyz, please help me decide if I'm gonna upgrade my processor or just tweak it.

Thankz!!!


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## StrangleHold

What ever you do, dont get a Phenom I. If you want to change over to a AMD go with a Phenom/Athlon II.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...iption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...iption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...iption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...iption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...iption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...iption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=


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## gimmigzgy

Why?
What's wrong with a phenom 1?
How about I get a Phenom II x3 720 2.8ghz?
Is it better than the Phenom x4 9650?


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## linkin

The E7500 is a dual core. A Phenom II would be better. The Phenom II X3 looks good actually, and you'll have a shot at unlocking the extra core.


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## StrangleHold

gimmigzgy said:


> Why?
> What's wrong with a phenom 1?
> How about I get a Phenom II x3 720 2.8ghz?
> Is it better than the Phenom x4 9650?


 
Yeap, the Phenom II 720BE would wipe the floor with a 9650. I have a 720 unlocked to a quad running at 3.5GHZ. with only 1.375 voltage.


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## Twist86

gimmigzgy said:


> Why?
> What's wrong with a phenom 1?
> How about I get a Phenom II x3 720 2.8ghz?
> Is it better than the Phenom x4 9650?



Its just over all slower and was packed with problems it also didn't fair well with overclocking.


Phenom II x3 is better its a 45nm chip vs 65nm has more L2 cache AND has L3 cache and it can be overclocked much better.


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## ScottALot

To tell you the truth, I'd really avoid tri-cores... they have the tri-core pinch and that makes it as if you have 2.7 cores.


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## StrangleHold

ScottALot said:


> To tell you the truth, I'd really avoid tri-cores... they have the tri-core pinch and that makes it as if you have 2.7 cores.


 
My God, I've heard it all now. Care to show me a link/review on this. Or was it a kinda of what I think thing?


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## zer0_c00l

tricore pinch ,,  thats a new one


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## maroon1

Twist86 said:


> Its just over all slower and was packed with problems it also didn't fair well with overclocking.
> 
> 
> Phenom II x3 is better its a 45nm chip vs 65nm has more L2 cache AND has L3 cache and it can be overclocked much better.



Phenom II X3 doesn't have more L2 cache, it only have more L3 cache than Phenom 1


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## gimmigzgy

StrangleHold said:


> Yeap, the Phenom II 720BE would wipe the floor with a 9650. I have a 720 unlocked to a quad running at 3.5GHZ. with only 1.375 voltage.



But do you think it's better than the core2duo e7500 2.93ghz?


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## Jet

Your processor is fine--you graphics card is what is holding you back! The 9500GT isn't that good--if you can spend $115 or so, look into an Ati 4850.


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## gimmigzgy

Are you sure my processor is fine?
does a 9500gt 512mb 128bit DDR3 perform better than my 9500gt 1gb 128bit ddr2?


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## Dazzeerr

No, there would be almost no difference. But you graphics card is definitely holding you back more than the processor. I made the mistake of buying an 8500GT (pretty much the same as 9500), they really aren't good graphics cards, when you don't know much about graphics cards - like i didn't then - the fact they are in the '8' series or '9' series fools you into thinking they will run recent games without a twitch, Wrong. 

Even an 8800GT would be a massive improvement, but i'd go for maybe a GeForce 275 or Radeon 4850 to be more recent, if you can.


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## 2048Megabytes

A Phenom II 720 Central Processing Unit has more processing power than a Core 2 Duo E7500 Processor.

I agree with Jet though.  A new video card would likely give your system the extra processing power it needs.  The Core 2 Duo E7500 is likely good enough.


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## gimmigzgy

what has a good performance at a good price?
geforce:
8800
9800
9600
?


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## Jet

What's your price range?


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## daisymtc

I think you'll need to upgrade your video card instead.


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## gimmigzgy

below $100


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## Jet

Try this--it's a bit over your budget, but it's the best value card out there:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161297&cm_re=4850-_-14-161-297-_-Product


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## gimmigzgy

I need to sell more pc parts before I can buy that,
but do you think what cards match up to it?

Cause i'm thinking of buying an Innno3d 9600gt 512mb 256bit or an Innno3d 8800gt 256mb 256bit.

What's better?


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## tlarkin

To be honest, more cache is probably the performance factor here you are looking for.  I would buy the processor that has the most cache around the clock speed or price range you are looking for.

I went with a Q9650 when I built my PC last year because it has 12MB of Cache.


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## gimmigzgy

I really dont understand the importance of cache and its levels.
Can you educate me about it
=)


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## StrangleHold

gimmigzgy said:


> Cause i'm thinking of buying an Innno3d 9600gt 512mb 256bit or an Innno3d 8800gt 256mb 256bit.
> 
> What's better?


 
The 8800GT is the better card. But dont believe I have ever saw a 256MB. 8800GT


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## tlarkin

gimmigzgy said:


> I really dont understand the importance of cache and its levels.
> Can you educate me about it
> =)



If you want to really read up on it, google it, but to give you a very quick and dirty break down of how it benefits a computer, this is why.

You do something on your computer, 

Your input on your computer triggers a command that is processed by the CPU, the CPU first looks for the fastest place possible for instruction sets on what to do, which is the cache.  It stores commands and instructions that the CPU can use to execute it's job.  If it is not found in cache, then it looks the the next quickest, but over all slower spot, RAM.  If RAM doesn't have the proper info it looks to your hard drive (virtual memory) which is the slowest.

So, in theory the more cache you have, the more instruction sets it can load and the  faster your processor is.  Of course you see the biggest increase on multi-tasking performance, but since every OS under the sun these days is a multi-user multitasking platform, then it should fit right in.

This is just a general explanation, if you want more in depth I would suggest you google some tech articles, hit up wikipedia and go read some articles that both Intel and AMD put out on their product.


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## gimmigzgy

would I feel the difference if I would switch from e7500 3mb L2 cache to a Phenom II x3 720 with 6mb L3 cache?


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## tlarkin

gimmigzgy said:


> would I feel the difference if I would switch from e7500 3mb L2 cache to a Phenom II x3 720 with 6mb L3 cache?



I do not know all the hardware specifics of every processor and it depends, is that cache shared amongst each core, or is the cache split in other ways?  It also depends on what you are doing on your computer.

I have a Q9650 
4 Gigs of RAM
GTX 260

I can run pretty much every game at max settings no problem, overall performance is crap, but then again it is because I am running Windows.


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## gimmigzgy

why? what's the problem with running Windows?
what kind of windows are you running?

does winXP sp3 have better performance than the winxp sp2?
when it comes to gaming


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## tlarkin

gimmigzgy said:


> why? what's the problem with running Windows?
> what kind of windows are you running?
> 
> does winXP sp3 have better performance than the winxp sp2?
> when it comes to gaming



Lets not stray off the path here on our opinions of OSes.  I am biased, and my opinions are my own based off of over a decade of work in the IT field.  Windows is the worst OS you can install on a system.  I run Vista at home on my PC because I wanted DX10 support and 64bit architecture support.  I'd upgrade to 7 if it weren't so damn expensive.  Not really worth the price, and I only have one PC that runs Windows for games.  Everything else I do on other sytsems.

I have posted on many threads about why I feel this way, you can use the search feature to look it up.

As for your processor questions, I don't know which is better on paper because I no longer really keep up to date with all the latest hardware changes unless I am in the market to spend money.  Since I just built my PC last year I am not looking to spend money.  

However, last year when I was looking, Intel was the over all better processor for sure on paper.


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## gimmigzgy

does xp have a 64bit version?

If I install a 64bit os would the performance be better for gaming and editing?
for example windows 7?


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## StrangleHold

gimmigzgy said:


> would I feel the difference if I would switch from e7500 3mb L2 cache to a Phenom II x3 720 with 6mb L3 cache?


 

All the 720s I've had would unlock to a quad but one. All would overclock to between 3.7/3.9, even the one that would not unlock. This is just a benefit because it doesnt always happen.

But its still kinda of a no brainer, If you didnt have either one, the 720BE no question.

Since you already have the e7500, the money for a board/memory/processor to go to a 720BE = No.


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## gimmigzgy

you're saying that I should upgrade my memory or board for better performance?

would it be okay If I put a 2gb 667 ram and a 2gb 800 ram in my mobo?


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## 2048Megabytes

Some advantages of a 64-bit operating system over a 32-bit operating system:

Ability to use RAM above the 3.25 gigabyte limit
Software (including some x86 applications) run faster and have more stability
Better graphics  

Windows XP does have a 64-bit version but software drivers for it are poor from what I have heard about it.  I would avoid it.  The operating system I would purchase is Windows 7.  You can buy it here for $105 free shipping:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10011180&prodlist=celebros


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## 2048Megabytes

No, Strangehold is saying you should not upgrade to a Phenom II 720 Processor.  The reason why is you would have to buy an entirely new motherboard which would cost a lot of money.

In my own opinion I wouldn't buy another module of RAM to combine with your current 2 gigabytes.  If you really want 4 gigabytes of RAM purchase a dual channel kit of 4 gigabytes.


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## gimmigzgy

it's only a home premium version...
Is there a windows 7 ultimate that is 64bit?

Cuz if there is I would buy it just to improve my pc performance.


another thing,
what's a dual channel kit of 4 gigabytes.?

is it compatible with my ECS g-31m7 mobo?


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## StrangleHold

Like Megabytes said, I meant I would not upgrade everything just to get a 720BE.

A Dual Channel kit is where the memory comes as a package together. In other words its better to have matching pairs/or fours


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## 2048Megabytes

After reading thru all the posts on this thread in my opinion I wouldn't buy Windows 7 if I were you.  A new operating system won't dramatically increase your performance.  A better video card and more RAM would give your system a boost in processing power.

4 gigabytes of RAM will be expensive.  I would try to sell your old random access memory.  You could probably get around $20 for it.

I have no more time to post presently.  I will post more in the future if someone else doesn't answer your questions.


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## gimmigzgy

my Mobo only has 2 slots that can support up to 2gb@800 each

btw: THANKS megabytes for your opinions, =)

and I'll sell my ram first then buy a dual channel kit of 4gb then buy a new GPU.

and also,

would my microatx of 500w support the HD 4850?


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## StrangleHold

Is you board a G31T-M7? If so it supports upto 4GB. of DDR 677/800 with 2 slots.
http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Pr...D=1&DetailName=Specification&MenuID=1&LanID=0


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## gimmigzgy

StrangleHold said:


> Is you board a G31T-M7? If so it supports upto 4GB. of DDR 677/800 with 2 slots.
> http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Pr...D=1&DetailName=Specification&MenuID=1&LanID=0



yes it is,
and would the performance be better if I switch from a 667 to a 800?


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## StrangleHold

gimmigzgy said:


> yes it is,
> and would the performance be better if I switch from a 667 to a 800?


 
If you want your gaming better and not completely upgrade your whole computer or spend alot of money. I would go with 4GB. of DDR 800 and upgrade your card to something like a GTS 250 or a 4850, that is if your power supply can pull either of those cards.

Then overclock that CPU some.


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## Jet

Let's get back to the main issue--your graphics card isn't up to the task. You should have no issues with any of the other components. 

I linked you to the Ati 4850, but you stated that it is over your budget. The 9600GT would be the next choice after the 4850. 

In response to Stranglehold:



> The 8800GT is the better card. But dont believe I have ever saw a 256MB. 8800GT



Actually, the 8800GT is worse than the 9600GT according to Tomshardware's GPU Hierarchy chart:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2464-8.html

I would suggest this 9600GT:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125272&cm_re=9600GT-_-14-125-272-_-Product

After rebate, it's just $5 more expensive than the others, is faster, and made by a better company (Gigabyte). 

Before you do anything else, buy a better graphics card. Focus on your graphics card first, and then, if you still aren't satisfied, look into other components. However, I'm quite certain that the 9600GT will do all you want and more!


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## StrangleHold

Jet said:


> Actually, the 8800GT is worse than the 9600GT according to Tomshardware's GPU Hierarchy chart:
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2464-8.html


That price vs. Performance. A 9800GT is just a renamed 8800GT. In just performance a 8800GT/9800GT is better then a 9600GT


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## Jet

StrangleHold said:


> That price vs. Performance. A 9800GT is just a renamed 8800GT. In just performance a 8800GT/9800GT is better then a 9600GT



The chart is actual performance, unless I am not seeing something correctly. 

Yes, the 9800GT is a renamed 8800GT. However, note that he stated the 8800GT with 256MB--which is listed two brackets underneath the 9600GT.


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## StrangleHold

Jet said:


> The chart is actual performance, unless I am not seeing something correctly.
> 
> Yes, the 9800GT is a renamed 8800GT. However, note that he stated the 8800GT with 256MB--which is listed two brackets underneath the 9600GT.


 
Like I said, I've never saw a 8800GT 256MB. The one listed which I have saw before is a 8800GS/ the same thing as a 9600GSO.

So with that, its a toss up between a 8800GS/9600GSO and a 9600GT 

This is what the chart says

This will happen. In fact, it’s guaranteed to happen, because inventory levels and prices change quickly. So how do you know if that card you’ve got your eye on is a good buy in its price range?

You can use this hierarchy to compare the pricing between two cards, to see which one is a better deal, and also to determine if an upgrade is worthwhile.

Think we are arguing about like 3 FPS between a 8800GT 256MB/8800GS/9600GSO and a 9600GT


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## Jet

StrangleHold said:


> Think we are arguing about like 3 FPS between a 8800GT 256MB/8800GS/9600GSO and a 9600GT



Correct!

It all comes down to: the 9600GT for $75 is a pretty good deal, and it will be a great graphics card for your needs.


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## 2048Megabytes

I was just looking at RAM prices.  Inflation seems to be driving the costs up on everything.  Here is some decent RAM that will work with your motherboard:

Patriot Extreme Performance 4 gigabytes (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $88
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...e=DDR2_800_240-pin_4gb-_-20-220-227-_-Product


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## gimmigzgy

SO all in all,

if I'm in a very tight budget,
the best thing that I can upgrade my pc is to:

upgrade it's ram to a dual channel kit (4gb, 2gb x2 pc800)
upgrade my gpu to 9600gt, because I dont really know  if my PSU would support a 4850.

my PSU says that it's 500w but I dont think it's really 500w....


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## Jet

gimmigzgy said:


> SO all in all,
> 
> if I'm in a very tight budget,
> the best thing that I can upgrade my pc is to:
> 
> upgrade it's ram to a dual channel kit (4gb, 2gb x2 pc800)
> upgrade my gpu to 9600gt, because I dont really know  if my PSU would support a 4850.
> 
> my PSU says that it's 500w but I dont think it's really 500w....



Is there a sticker on the side of the PSU? What brand/model is it?

Yes, you have the idea--though the GPU is a higher priority than the memory.


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## gimmigzgy

the sticker says it's 500w, my PSU comes with the casing (tommade880)


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## lovely?

does it have a pci-e connector? its a rectangle 6-pin connector. if it has one of those it will power a 9600gt or a 4850 easily, since they don't even pull much power at all.


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## gimmigzgy

no it doesnt have that


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## Jet

Most likely your graphics card will come with a 4 pin to PCI-E connector, or else you can get a cheaper graphics card like the ATi 4650 that doesn't require an extra power connector.


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## gimmigzgy

What if I downgrade my processor from a e7500 to a Phenom x3 8650 or athlon II x2 250?

and then upgrade my video card to a 9600gt or a 8800gt.

but then, will it require an extra power connector.?


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## 2048Megabytes

I don't think you are understanding.  Your motherboard supports certain Intel processors only.  Advanced Micro Devices (or AMD) processors will not work with your present motherboard.

If I were you I would just save your money for the video card and RAM suggested.


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## gimmigzgy

ahaha!
I know that intel has lga and amd has am3 sockets, =)

I'm gonna downgrade my procie as well as my mobo, =)
just to buy a better video card.

but still keep the 2gb ddr2 pc667 ram


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## Aastii

Your OS is fine for gaming, you processor is fine for gaming, your memory is fine for gaming, what isn't fine for gaming, is your graphics card.

You would be better off spending your less than $100 on a better graphics card, then your gaming would improve a hell of alot.

now can I draw your attention to:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102719

the ATi 3870 will play any game that you could want that is out at the minute, with the exception of the massively demanding games like crysis, arma2, GTA4 etc on medium-highest settings with no problem, yes, even with your system now.

When you have a bit more money, then upgrade your memory, a 2x2GB PC6400 800MHz kit would be the best option, from there, anything else would be a new motherboard job and a new processor and a new power supply, it is constantly evolving though, as any good system should be 

can I also draw your attention to something else, if you get a new graphics card, you can sell your old one and get funds for something else, maybe even getting a slightly better graphics card than the one picked, maybe getting that memory now aswell as the graphics. To give you an idea of how much it would be worth:

http://computers.shop.ebay.com/Comp...9500gt&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282

by the looks of that, maybe an extra $40, which you could probably put to best use saving for tthat memory or getting a slightly better graphics card, for example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150441

please note with that though, you may want to buy an after market heatsink and/or fan for it too because the coolers were so badly designed on them, the air is blown into the case, not out, but a new heatsink and fan soon sorts that problem out, or even a vent on the side panel


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## Jet

The problem with the HD 3870 is that you'll still need a PCI-e connector. 

Check this out:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121329&cm_re=4670-_-14-121-329-_-Product

Please. Buy it now. And turn in that $30 rebate. This is a very, very powerful card and it doesn't need the extra power from the PCI-E connector.


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## 2048Megabytes

Wow, that is a great video card especially for $40.  I would buy the ASUS EAH4670/DI/512MD3 Radeon HD 4670 video card Jet recommended.  That is a smoking hot deal!


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## StrangleHold

I dont know, the dude has a 9500GT 1GB. now. All this about upgrading to 9600GT or a 4670 (Which is a good price). I think with his system as a whole, that small of a upgrade would be a waste of money and time.

My opinion, I would just save up and get a better card and power supply. Then when you can afford it upgrade your board and processor move them over to it. 

Your just going from a low mid range card to another better low mid range card.


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## Jet

StrangleHold said:


> I dont know, the dude has a 9500GT 1GB. now. All this about upgrading to 9600GT or a 4670 (Which is a good price). I think with his system as a whole, that small of a upgrade would be a waste of money and time.
> 
> My opinion, I would just save up and get a better card and power supply. Then when you can afford it upgrade your board and processor move them over to it.
> 
> Your just going from a low mid range card to another better low mid range card.



I do agree with you somewhat--but the 9500GT is more of a low end card, and it still is a fairly big bump in performance to the HD 4670 (2x the performance in some/most cases):

http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/Gra...-HD-4670-vs-nVIDIA-GeForce-9500GT/Page-4.html


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## gimmigzgy

this is what I'm planning to do,

from my
core2duo e7500 2.93ghz
ECS g31t-m7
9500gt 1gb 128bit
pc667 2gb ddr2

to a:

Athlon II x2 250 3.0ghz 2mb cache -procie
Gigabyte GA-MA74Gm-S2H AMD740g -mobo
9600gt 512mb 256bit
or a 4870 or 4850 or 4830 -gpu
2gb pc800 ddr2 -ram


would it perform better than my old one?

I won't buy a new PSU cuz I could just buy a pci to molex adapter.
But do you think that's safe?


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## Jet

You definitely won't have a problem with the 4670--it doesn't require the extra PCI-E power connector--the others, though, might be questionable.


EDIT: Why are you downgrading your cpu? The e7500 is better than the Athlon II x2 250....


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## gimmigzgy

but it only  has a 128bit interface


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## StrangleHold

This thread is like a Vicious Circle. 

The Intel e7500 and the X2 250 are pretty much equal. Whats the point?


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## gimmigzgy

ahaha!
we're off about procies now.

would I make a new post about GPUs?


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## tossy

Hey, I read some good reviews about core2duo e7500 ..... I felt it could be useful for you.
http://www.productwiki.com/intel-core-2-duo-e7500/


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