# Windows 10



## Geoff

Let the discussion of Windows 10 begin! 

What are some of the features you're looking forward to most?


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## voyagerfan99

Interesting that they'd skip 9 and go right to 10.


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## Darren

voyagerfan99 said:


> Interesting that they'd skip 9 and go right to 10.



They're behind the times. I want my Windows 11.


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## Shane

To be honest,I'm not sure what to expect from windows 9 let alone 10..I hope they listen more to what people actually want,I feel they completely ignored a lot of their customers with windows 8/8.1 that wanted the real start menu back from windows 7.

It will be interesting to see what future Direct X brings,..but im more looking forward to Gaming on Linux progression more than anything.


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## Troncoso

voyagerfan99 said:


> Interesting that they'd skip 9 and go right to 10.



Until you think about the fact that they went 1, 2, 3, NT, 95, 98, 2000, ME, XP, Vista, 7, 8 (that order might not be perfect)

It makes sense that they just straight up don't know how to count. I'm still waiting for Windows Batman Symbol.


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## Okedokey

Windows 10 preview possibly out tomorrow.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/windows-9-release-date-beta-preview-start-menu-screenshots


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## Shane

> Terry Myerson said that Windows 10 will be "built from the ground up for a mobile-first, cloud-first world"
> Read more at http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/...ew-start-menu-screenshots#JCi3pZDZ7c60se4e.99



The screenshots of the "Start menu"...meh.


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## spirit

Okedokey said:


> Windows 10 preview possibly out tomorrow.
> 
> http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/windows-9-release-date-beta-preview-start-menu-screenshots



Downloading it as soon as it becomes available!


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## Okedokey

spirit said:


> Downloading it as soon as it becomes available!



Never doubted it mate!


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## Gun

Hmm, should be interesting.

Why exactly are they skipping 9?


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## Geoff

spirit said:


> Downloading it as soon as it becomes available!


Same here!


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## zeppelin04

I heard that this will be the last version of windows and that they will just do patches and updates from then on.  Sounds more like how mobiles and even macs handle it if it is true.

I am looking forward to it.  I would assume the learned from windows 8 and will put together something nice with 10.


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## johnb35

zepp*elin04 said:


> I heard that this will be the last version of windows and that they will just do patches and updates from then on.  Sounds more like how mobiles and even macs handle it if it is true.



Yes, that would be nice.  I think we are in the computer age that they can bring out a decent OS and just continue to update it.  If Windows 10 can prove that we can have the best of both worlds (decent start menu and metro) then I'm all for it.  There is no need to bring out a new OS every 2-3 years.  Not sure how Microsoft would continue to make money though.  I did hear that they were gonna do something with the OS to get additional options, consumers would have to pay for it.


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## zeppelin04

johnb35 said:


> Yes, that would be nice.  I think we are in the computer age that they can bring out a decent OS and just continue to update it.  If Windows 10 can prove that we can have the best of both worlds (decent start menu and metro) then I'm all for it.  There is no need to bring out a new OS every 2-3 years.  Not sure how Microsoft would continue to make money though.  I did hear that they were gonna do something with the OS to get additional options, consumers would have to pay for it.



I could see the updates being sold at cost.  I recall apple charging around $20 for their major updates.  Mavericks was the first free version.  Also, if they get the app store integrated across all platforms they might see better sales on apps, music, etc.


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## spirit

Okedokey said:


> Never doubted it mate!





WRXGuy1 said:


> Same here!



Downloading Windows 10 Preview for Enterprise now.  

Thanks for the Tweet Geoff - watching the keynote now.


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## voyagerfan99

It's already available for download. You just need to sign up for the insider program here.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview


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## spirit

voyagerfan99 said:


> It's already available for download. You just need to sign up for the insider program here.
> 
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview



Yeah I saw. I'm downloading it now. 

I'll be installing it on my ThinkPad.


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## voyagerfan99

I'm just installing it as a VM for now. I can install it on my spare SSD in my Latitude later.


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## spirit

Installing on the ThinkPad...


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## voyagerfan99

I think the new start menu is gross.


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## spirit

voyagerfan99 said:


> I think the new start menu is gross.



Really? I quite like it!

Got it all up and running on the ThinkPad! Installed in about 10 minutes. Now installing drivers and then onto installing Office 365 and so on.


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## Geoff

I don't have it running yet, but from the screenshots I really like the new start menu.


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## tremmor

If this is a release. How long will you be able to use it?


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## Troncoso

voyagerfan99 said:


> I think the new start menu is gross.



I agree. The start menu in Win7 is perfect. When Win8 rolled around people simply asked to have the start menu back, not to change it. There are some things that just don't need re-inventing.

I hate their mobile/touch screen-centric focus. It benefits PC users in no way.


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## voyagerfan99

I'm going to have to see if ClassicShell will work with it. ClassicShell with the Aero theme is good enough for me.


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## Shane

I've been unable to try it,Both VMware and Virtualbox is throwing up an error saying that Intel VT-x IS disabled?


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## johnb35

Just installed it on my daughters pc.  It's okay, but I don't like the start menu.  Will have to try classic shell and see if thats any better.


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## Troncoso

Shane said:


> I've been unable to try it,Both VMware and Virtualbox is throwing up an error saying that Intel VT-x IS disabled?



It's generally disabled in the BIOS by default. At least, for the past 5 PC's or so that I've been installing a x64 CentOS VM on has had it disabled.


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## voyagerfan99

Shane said:


> I've been unable to try it,Both VMware and Virtualbox is throwing up an error saying that Intel VT-x IS disabled?



Yeah, check that it's enabled in the BIOS. I had Hyper-V installed and could only get 32-bit selections with Virtualbox. Had to uninstall Hyper-V before I could use 64-bit.


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## FuryRosewood

I modified the stuff on the 'metro/modern' to use stuff i mostly use, and it *almost* is like having Windows 7 again. Dont need Start8 or Classic shell, I pinned Control Panel and This PC (Same thing as my computer) and its good to go, i just wish the metro things didnt auto arrange.


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## spirit

I've posted my desktop screenshot in the desktop screenshot thread.

I like the Start Menu - I prefer it to the one in Windows 7 actually. I can pin the apps I use most to it very easily and it can be as tall or as wide as I want it.

The OS feels stable. There's only a few minor problems I've come across. Everything I've installed works apart from the touchpad gestures.

I'm impressed for such an early build! :good:


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## Troncoso

I get the feeling that a majority of us don't even use apps for that metro crap to be useful. You could easily pin commonly used programs to the Win7 start menu as well, so that's nothing new. Not sure why they need to change size...


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## salvage-this

If you use the live tiles for Weather, news it can be kinda handy.  I much perfer live tiles to the gadgets in 7.  

If you unpin all of the apps from that section, no extra space is reserved.  It just shows the section for the standard start menu.  I don't really see any reason to complain about the tiles being included in start. if you don't need them, remove them.


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## Jiniix

tremmor said:


> If this is a release. How long will you be able to use it?



196 days from today.

Just installed it on one of my work laptops, and I really dig the new start menu.
I haven't played around with it much, but it looks like they actually listened to desktop power users and implemented non-stupid things and removed even more stupid things.
I'm officially hooked. And for the pricing, I might actually buy this OS! I've read a few various reports, stating that it should be free for Windows 8.1 users and $30 for Windows 7 users, but some claim completely free and some always $30. Either way, sounds like it's going to be cheap this time.


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## spirit

salvage-this said:


> If you use the live tiles for Weather, news it can be kinda handy.  I much perfer live tiles to the gadgets in 7.
> 
> If you unpin all of the apps from that section, no extra space is reserved.  It just shows the section for the standard start menu.  I don't really see any reason to complain about the tiles being included in start. if you don't need them, remove them.



+1 on all points. 

For those who are wondering, this version of the Windows 10 Preview will expire on April 16th 2015 at 00:59.


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## Shane

*Things i don't like about Windows 10 preview.*

1.Still have to use a Windows live account,Cant use a Local account straight away..i know you can create a local after but its a lot of faff if you don't want to use your Live account.

2.Swipe screen before the login,Its still there..this to me is just another useless thing.

3.No "Classic theme".

*What i do like*
1)That its took me straight to the Desktop,No silly Metro

2)Start menu is "somewhat" back,much better.

Other than that,Doesn't seem all that much different from Windows 8.1,Will be interesting to see what they do further to Windows 10.


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## salvage-this

you can make a local account first.  It is a bit hidden, but go to where you would create a live account there is a link at the bottom to create a local account first.


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## strollin

Shane said:


> *Things i don't like about Windows 10 preview.*
> 
> 1.Still have to use a Windows live account,Cant use a Local account straight away..i know you can create a local after but its a lot of faff if you don't want to use your Live account.  ...


I keep reading this regarding both Win 8 and Win 10 yet I have never had a problem using a local account on either OS.  I'll agree that MS doesn't make it obvious during install how to create a local account and really pushes you in the direction of an MS account but if you click on "Create Account" during install, there is a link at the bottom of that screen that says "Use Local Account" or something similar.

The only issue I have encountered using a local account is that since Win 8.1 the OS won't let you use OneDrive without setting up an MS account.  There are ways around that (I personally use a little program called SyncDriver for OneDrive).

Of course you have to use an MS account in the store but that's not a biggie to me.


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## spirit

Shane said:


> *Things i don't like about Windows 10 preview.*
> 
> 1.Still have to use a Windows live account,Cant use a Local account straight away..i know you can create a local after but its a lot of faff if you don't want to use your Live account.



When you install it and it asks you for a Windows account (or whatever it is), click 'Create a new one' and then 'Log in with local account' (or similar - I forget the exact wording now).

I discovered just before I had to deliver a presentation about Office 365 to a bunch of 11/12 year olds that my phone doesn't want to pair to my ThinkPad using Bluetooth under Windows 10 (the relevance being that I used my phone to remotely control the PowerPoint in previous presentations I did) and my touchpad gestures still don't work even with newest Synaptics driver. 

And for some reason I can't use the scroll wheel on my mouse in Photoshop to move around the document.

Apart from those rather minor flaws all seems to be good.


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## Okedokey

Yeah, I think it is good.  Exactly the same as 8.1 in many ways, but in others its just better.  Installed in minutes, and is much faster on my laptop.


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## spirit

It installed in about ten minutes on the SSD in my ThinkPad. 

Gone are the days where it takes an hour to install Windows... apart from if you're having to upgrade from 8 to 8.1 via the Windows Store. Had to reinstall a Dell over the weekend and for various licensing reasons I had to install 8 first and then upgrade to 8.1 through the Store. Took ages! Why did Microsoft decide to use different product keys for 8.1?


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## spirit

For those who preferred Windows 8's Start Screen to the new Start Menu in Windows 10, you can enable it again by right clicking on Taskbar -> Properties -> Start Menu.







It's disabled by default on non-touch devices such as desktops and laptops. Would be interesting to see if it's disabled or enabled on my desktop with a touch screen monitor!


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## Agent Smith

Isn't the reason why the install only too 10 minutes is due to this being a preview OS?

I'm sticking with 7. I havn't loded it in a VM, but from what I can see based on pics on the net it still has that god awful boxy Win 8 look. I like 7's GUI.


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## Geoff

Agent Smith said:


> Isn't the reason why the install only too 10 minutes is due to this being a preview OS?
> 
> I'm sticking with 7. I havn't loded it in a VM, but from what I can see based on pics on the net it still has that god awful boxy Win 8 look. I like 7's GUI.


Microsoft is not going to go back from the "boxy" UI anytime soon.  Windows 8, 8.1, now 10, as well as the Xbox interface, Windows Phone, etc.


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## Agent Smith

If true I'll be using a third party GUI to rid the suck fest.


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## Geoff

Agent Smith said:


> If true I'll be using a third party GUI to rid the suck fest.


Or just get with the times.


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## Troncoso

Apparently, the preview has a keylogger and other such monitors installed. This is a development version, so it's not a huge deal, but it's something people agreed to when downloading it that they didn't realize.


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## strollin

spirit said:


> For those who preferred Windows 8's Start Screen to the new Start Menu in Windows 10, you can enable it again by right clicking on Taskbar -> Properties -> Start Menu. ...


The one gotcha with this is that you need to log out and log back in for the change to take place.  Hope it isn't like that in the final version.


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## spirit

Agent Smith said:


> Isn't the reason why the install only too 10 minutes is due to this being a preview OS?


Probably not. This looks like a full OS to me. There doesn't appear to be anything missing, there's just some rough edges that need to be smoothed out.

I installed Windows 8.1 from USB on a HDD yesterday and it only took about 15 minutes. I think 8.1 takes about 10 minutes on an SSD too. 



strollin said:


> The one gotcha with this is that you need to log out and log back in for the change to take place.  Hope it isn't like that in the final version.


Why is that a big problem? It takes seconds to log out and back in.


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## voyagerfan99

Agent Smith said:


> I'm sticking with 7. I havn't loded it in a VM, but from what I can see based on pics on the net it still has that god awful boxy Win 8 look. I like 7's GUI.



You get over it after installing 8.1 and ClassicShell.


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## spirit

voyagerfan99 said:


> You get over it after installing 8.1 and ClassicShell.



You just get over it once you've used 8.1 for a few hours. There's no need to use Classic Shell in order to 'get over it'.

And you end up finding that actually having the Ribbon UI in Explorer is very handy and you also end up really not caring about the Close, Maximise and Mimimise buttons look.


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## strollin

spirit said:


> strollin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one gotcha with this is that you need to log out and log back in for the change to take place. Hope it isn't like that in the final version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is that a big problem? It takes seconds to log out and back in.
Click to expand...

I don't see where I called it a big problem.  Regardless, don't see why it should be necessary to log out/in.  Based on comments I've read on other forms many others don't like the way it's implemented.


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## spirit

Update: I upgraded to the latest build (9860) and it seems like the problems I had with the touchpad gestures and using the scroll wheel to pan around documents in Photoshop have been fixed. Not tried Bluetooth yet though.


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## linkin

*Windows 10 Technical Preview*

Who else is running it? I have it at home and at work. Liking it so far. Hate the "modern" apps/interface, but the rest is good, save for silly things like "recent files/folders" in explorer and other unnecessary junk. Other than UI stuff it seems like a solid OS. Haven't had any stability issues yet. All my hardware/software works.

The new start menu is even good once you unpin in the garbage modern "apps" and remove them from your frequently used programs. It's actually usable!

I'm sad that some settings are buried within the "modern" interface though.

What's your experience been so far?


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## spirit

When it first came out last October we had a discussion about it here: http://www.computerforum.com/230819-windows-10-a.html

The first build (9841) was stable but on my Lenovo ThinkPad Bluetooth and the touchpad gestures didn't work. Upgraded to 9860 and it was all good and then upgraded to 9879 and it was pretty similar. I'll be upgrading to the new build when it comes out on the 21st (this is the first Microsoft-released, ie non-leaked, build with the new NT 10.0 kernel rather than 6.4 which builds 9841, 9860 and 9879 used). I also hear that the first  Windows Phone 10 beta will be available, but I'll stick with Phone 8.1 on my Nokia I think until the final version comes out. 

Apparently the build that is coming out on the 21st is in fact the Consumer Preview: http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-10-what-to-expect-in-the-consumer-preview I reckon the RTM will come out around April time.

I'm looking forward to the upgrade - I like 8.1 a lot already so I think 10 will be just as good, if not better. :good:


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## johnb35

spirit said:


> When it first came out last October we had a discussion about it here: http://www.computerforum.com/230819-windows-10-a.html



Which is this thread here.


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## spirit

johnb35 said:


> Which is this thread here.



Hmmm, this was in its own new thread... a mod must have moved Linkin's post into this thread.

The title of Linkin's post ('Windows 10 Technical Preview') was the title of the thread before his post was moved into this thread.


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## johnb35

Sorry, just noticed Mep merged it into this thread.


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## spirit

johnb35 said:


> Sorry, just noticed Mep merged it into this thread.



Yeah it made sense to merge it. No worries. :good:


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## tremmor

*Microsoft windows 10*

Lots of info coming out today about and features. you can check out microsoft.com, cnet and local newspapers. Even said : All owners of devices running Windows 7, Windows 8 or 8.1 will get a free upgrade to Windows 10 for the first year. but did not see anything about pricing yet. Just curious. hasn't been released yet. Im still using 7 Pro and works fine but might be willing to try it.


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## spirit

Just watched the live stream. I missed a big chunk on the gaming stuff but the holographic stuff was incredible, as was Office 365 on Windows Phones and the seamless switching between desktop and tablet modes. Spartan looks very good too! I am very excited about Windows 10 indeed! :good:

New build comes out next week I think. They were using Build 9924 in the event today, I think we may see Build 10000 next week. 

This has given me lots of good stuff to talk about on Saturday when I present to Microsoft in London!!


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## johnb35

So are they saying that after the first year that it will subscription based after that?  Or are they saying that users have a year to upgrade for free?  Seems confusing.


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## voyagerfan99

I'd assume the latter, but yeah it's confusing.


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## silv55

What is the minimum Hardware to install Win 10 ? and you say that is free for one year! what the hack is that! i  only have a Windows7 Image CD that i made,i don't have Product key, no factory Cd for re-install win 7, if i don't like it or if you have to pay too much, and in this situation  there are many people,so i wouldn't risk my Present Win 7 for Win 10 free, one year  uncertainty


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL5eJPphf0c


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## voyagerfan99

silv55 said:


> What is the minimum Hardware to install Win 10 ?



Processor: 1 GHz or faster
RAM: 1 GB (32-bit) or 2 GB (64-bit)
Free hard disk space: 16 GB
Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM driver



silv55 said:


> i only have a Windows 7 Image CD that i made,i don't have Product key, no factory Cd for re-install win 7, if i don't like it or if you have to pay too much, and in this situation  there are many people,so i wouldn't risk my Present Win 7 for Win 10 free, one year  uncertainty



That's why keyfinders exist 

https://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder/


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## silv55

voyagerfan99 said:


> Processor: 1 GHz or faster
> RAM: 1 GB (32-bit) or 2 GB (64-bit)
> Free hard disk space: 16 GB
> Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM driver
> 
> 
> 
> That's why keyfinders exist
> 
> https://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder/



The thing is that this Hp DV6 did not come with Win7 installed, it came with Win Vista from the dealer,so win 7 was installed over win Vista,and i bought it as it is from Pawnshop,


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## voyagerfan99

Doesn't mean keyfinder won't find the Windows key.


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## tremmor

johnb35 said:


> So are they saying that after the first year that it will subscription based after that?  Or are they saying that users have a year to upgrade for free?  Seems confusing.



Good question and read a few times John. Sounds like ya get it and yours.

Delivering Windows as a Service and a Free Upgrade to Windows 10

Today was a monumental day for us on the Windows team because we shared our desire to redefine the relationship we have with you – our customers. We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch.*

*This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost.* With Windows 10, the experience will evolve and get even better over time. We’ll deliver new features when they’re ready, not waiting for the next major release. We think of Windows as a Service – in fact, one could reasonably think of Windows in the next couple of years as one of the largest Internet services on the planet.


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## silv55

tremmor said:


> Good question and read a few times John. Sounds like ya get it and yours.
> 
> Delivering Windows as a Service and a Free Upgrade to Windows 10
> 
> Today was a monumental day for us on the Windows team because we shared our desire to redefine the relationship we have with you – our customers. We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch.*
> 
> *This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost.* With Windows 10, the experience will evolve and get even better over time. We’ll deliver new features when they’re ready, not waiting for the next major release. We think of Windows as a Service – in fact, one could reasonably think of Windows in the next couple of years as one of the largest Internet services on the planet.



Maybe this is a trap,once  people upgrade to win 10, special folks with win 7 installed can't go back to win 7!and have to buy the licence.


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## johnb35

silv55 said:


> Maybe this is a trap,once  people upgrade to win 10, special folks with win 7 installed can't go back to win 7!and have to buy the licence.



You an always reinstall windows 7 as long as you have the activation key.  Windows 10 seems promising.


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## silv55

voyagerfan99 said:


> Doesn't mean keyfinder won't find the Windows key.



Thank voyagerfan99; i was able to get the key for Win7 home premium sp1 
it gave me Product ID#,CD Key# and Product Part#.

Should i trust this key# that the Keyfinder gave me?if this is right, that's pretty cool.
if make an iso of win7 will it accept this key?and how can i test the key#without erasing win7 already installed,thanks


also the mentioned Win10 is just a Preview!


http://www.pcworld.com/article/2690...ical-preview-everything-you-need-to-know.html


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## johnb35

The key that the keyfinder program gave you for windows 7 will work providing its not an OEM machine like Dell or HP.  If its an OEM machine then you would have to use the key that is on the sticker on the bottom of laptop or on the side of the case of a desktop.


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## silv55

johnb35 said:


> The key that the keyfinder program gave you for windows 7 will work providing its not an OEM machine like Dell or HP.  If its an OEM machine then you would have to use the key that is on the sticker on the bottom of laptop or on the side of the case of a desktop.



Thanks Johnb35; I pasted here what are the results of the keyfinder.
i marked the Key with x's for privacy.



Windows 7 Home Premium Service Pack 1
Product Part No.: X15-37379
Installed from 'OEM' media.
Product ID: 40359-OEM-8999667-19010  match to CD Key data
CD Key: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Computer Name: HP-PC
Registered Owner: HP
Registered Organization:


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## johnb35

Does the key listed match what is listed on the sticker on the bottom of the laptop?


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## silv55

johnb35 said:


> Does the key listed match what is listed on the sticker on the bottom of the laptop?



No Sir.it's a different Key, i checked it myself to be certain that it wouldn't be the same key.


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## johnb35

Providing the sticker on the bottom says windows 7 then you have to use the key that is on the sticker.  The key that jelly bean gave you is a volume license key for OEM's.  It will not work if you use a standard windows 7 install cd to activate.  All OEM's are like that, thats why you have they key on the sticker.  If that sticker ever becomes unreadable and you don't have that number written down anywhere then you will need recovery cd's or will need to purchase a new license.


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## silv55

johnb35 said:


> Providing the sticker on the bottom says windows 7 then you have to use the key that is on the sticker.  The key that jelly bean gave you is a volume license key for OEM's.  It will not work if you use a standard windows 7 install cd to activate.  All OEM's are like that, thats why you have they key on the sticker.  If that sticker ever becomes unreadable and you don't have that number written down anywhere then you will need recovery cd's or will need to purchase a new license.



You mean if  i install  a win7  from an Iso cd  it will not activate with this key? 

i'm not worried about it as long as the Hard Drive is good,because i made an Image Recovery repair CD of win 7,i can't use the key on the bottom of the HP laptop cause it's Win Vista,besides  i don't like Win Vista I prefer Ubuntu  by a long shot.


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## johnb35

Ok, you just answered one of my questions.  The sticker says Vista, so of course the keys will be different.  So the key that jellybean gave you is the correct key.  You can use it to reactivate that copy of windows 7.


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## silv55

johnb35 said:


> Ok, you just answered one of my questions.  The sticker says Vista, so of course the keys will be different.  So the key that jellybean gave you is the correct key.  You can use it to reactivate that copy of windows 7.



Thanks Johnb35; well if you're right! when Win 10 comes up with a free upgrade for Win7 which i doubt,since Microsoft is a money Angry,i only believe when i see it, maybe i try it  nothing too loose,i appreciate it .


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## 2048Megabytes

Windows 10 doesn't look appealing to me.  I don't like the in your face advertising Microsoft is pushing into their operating systems since Windows 8.  Windows 10 looks like they are implementing these same features.  The operating system is beginning to look like their www.msn.com website and there is a reason I avoid their website.

There is great software out there to restore the graphic user interface to the classic Windows 7 look which may make it tolerable.

Now I have a question.  How stable is the Windows 10 operating system?


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## spirit

I have the latest build (9926) running in VMware. Seems to be quite stable although there are some bugs which you can read about here: http://www.neowin.net/news/known-issues-in-windows-10-january-preview-build-9926 

Looking forward to using a release which has Spartan and a UK version of Cortana in it! 

People are speculating that the release date will be around the end of October. I think I need to reinstall 8.1 on my desktop before then but if a Consumer Preview of Windows 10 comes out soon and is stable then I might use that instead on my desktop until Windows 10 RTM is released.


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## salvage-this

I am running it on my desktop now.  So far it has been really stable for me.  No crashes, barely any hiccups.  I'm getting really excited for the final version to come out.  

I was a bit nervous that most of my slightly older games that didn't work in 8.1 wouldn't work in 10 but so far everything that I have been playing has been stable.

I wish that they would add better animation to the multi desktop switcher.  I'm really excited that they added that for Windows, I would like it to be a bit easier to see what windows are on what desktop.  Wouldn't mind better keyboard shortcuts for moving windows from different desktops either.


----------



## strollin

2048Megabytes said:


> Windows 10 doesn't look appealing to me.  I don't like the in your face advertising Microsoft is pushing into their operating systems since Windows 8.  ...
> Now I have a question.  How stable is the Windows 10 operating system?


Advertising!?  What advertising?  I've used both Win 8 and Win 10 since their very first previews and have never seen any advertising.

Win 10 is stable enough that there are people using it as their main OS already.  I personally think thy are crazy since the OS still has a ways to go before it will be complete.


----------



## Geoff

strollin said:


> Advertising!?  What advertising?  I've used both Win 8 and Win 10 since their very first previews and have never seen any advertising.
> 
> Win 10 is stable enough that there are people using it as their main OS already.  I personally think thy are crazy since the OS still has a ways to go before it will be complete.


I think he's talking about all the Bing advertising, as they have Bing everywhere in Windows 8.


----------



## ninjabubbles3

One thing I really don't like is how it forces you to get the newest update, always takes up all my bandwidth, and it won't let you change it. Had to modify some folder or the other using a tutorial online


----------



## strollin

Geoff said:


> I think he's talking about all the Bing advertising, as they have Bing everywhere in Windows 8.


I don't use or ever see Bing but then I don't use IE either.  Is the Bing advertising within IE because I don't see any using FireFox.


----------



## Geoff

strollin said:


> I don't use or ever see Bing but then I don't use IE either.  Is the Bing advertising within IE because I don't see any using FireFox.


It's also on the start screen, and whenever you search.


----------



## silv55

Geoff said:


> I think he's talking about all the Bing advertising, as they have Bing everywhere in Windows 8.



sorry to butt in,as you mentioned Bing; why i never liked Bing! i never used it in my browser,and every time for any reason it shows up uninvited ,i never use it,i don't have nothing against it ,i don't know if it's any good,since Chrome is my favorite  over any Browser, maybe that's the reason.


----------



## silv55

Hi guys; Today it came to my mind,why not to try to install Win 10 Preview on my Hp DV-6 1259DX, nothing to loose,
So i removed the original 500BG HDD with Win7 Home Premium installed,and replaced it with an HDD 250GB that i had in my scrap.

First i went to the same site where i downloaded Win Vista ISO for the other laptop HP-DV-5,and downloaded Win 7 Home Premium Iso and burned Image to a DVD-RW and installed it,i had no problems, everything installed and updated OK automatically accepted the activation key,o i went to the site for win 10 upgrade Preview and registered and started to download win 10 preview build 9926,at first it gave me some errors that failed upgrade to Win 10 Preview build 9926,these are the codes i came across.
code;800401fd,802400b,80240055, i checked with Microsoft, what were those errors and how to fix, learned if i had error codes to try Dr Fix it, i did run Dr fix it, and afters a few tries to upgrade,rebooted and tried upgrade one more time, now the Upgrade started and installed and now everything is running smooth so far nothing to point out,installed Google Chrome and now i'm set,

When i boot to desktop it gives me the choice of Win 10 preview and Rollback
i don't know what that means is it I can go back to win7?

Here's a pic attach of the desktop.


----------



## voyagerfan99

Just download the Windows 10 ISO and install that instead of doing an upgrade.


----------



## silv55

voyagerfan99 said:


> Just download the Windows 10 ISO and install that instead of doing an upgrade.



Hi voyagerfan99; is that better then upgrade from win7 to win 10 preview,
and how many builds are there? mine is 9926.
also how to put a few pages in the task bar like in win 7? thanks.


----------



## voyagerfan99

Yes, a clean install is ALWAYS better than an upgrade.

9926 is the latest build of Windows 10.

I don't understand what you mean by "put a few pages in the task bar like win 7".


----------



## silv55

voyagerfan99 said:


> Yes, a clean install is ALWAYS better than an upgrade.
> 
> 9926 is the latest build of Windows 10.
> 
> I don't understand what you mean by "put a few pages in the task bar like win 7".



i want to open a browser page then minimize that page that goes to the taskbar ,then i open browser again  and not loose the first browser page that i had minimized. just like in win7


----------



## voyagerfan99

Right click the icon in the taskbar and choose the application from the list. It will open a new window. That hasn't changed from Windows 7.


----------



## johnb35

You can also disable tabbed browsing, not sure what browser you are using.


----------



## silv55

johnb35 said:


> You can also disable tabbed browsing, not sure what browser you are using.



Google Chrome.


----------



## silv55

voyagerfan99 said:


> Right click the icon in the taskbar and choose the application from the list. It will open a new window. That hasn't changed from Windows 7.



It will give me a an application from the list,but do not give me the application that i'm working at the moment,just like at this moment i'm typing this test for this post,this is in vista; now i click  (-)minimizing button and this page with the post i'm doing goes to the task bar,then i open web browser and choose another link and  when i click on the first link there is still my post,you may be able to do it in win 10 but i don't know.


----------



## johnb35

I don't think you can disable the tabbed browsing option in chrome.


----------



## silv55

johnb35 said:


> I don't think you can disable the tabbed browsing option in chrome.



thanks anyway here's a list of problems that may arise in win 10 preview.

http://www.windowscentral.com/heres-list-known-issues-windows-10-january-technical-preview


----------



## Geoff

silv55 said:


> thanks anyway here's a list of problems that may arise in win 10 preview.
> 
> http://www.windowscentral.com/heres-list-known-issues-windows-10-january-technical-preview


Most of those issues are very specific and only happen in rare situations.


----------



## silv55

Geoff said:


> Most of those issues are very specific and only happen in rare situations.



Hi guys; what is different between  Win 10 preview build 9926 and
Current previews of Windows 10 such as Windows 10 Technical Preview build 9841, 9860, 9879 will all expire April 15th 2015.


----------



## silv55

silv55 said:


> Hi guys; what is different between  Win 10 preview build 9926 and
> Current previews of Windows 10 such as Windows 10 Technical Preview build 9841, 9860, 9879 will all expire April 15th 2015.



disregard, i got it .


----------



## LinuxTester

I downloaded and installed it on my main PC(VBox) and worked no lag!! I think when they release the normal version of Win10 I will install it on main PC... 

Comments: Very good OS, full compatibility, no lag, reliable and beautiful GUI.


----------



## StrangleHold

silv55 said:


> all expire April 15th 2015.



Technical Preview expires on October 1, 2015 

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-faq-system-requirements-pc


----------



## spirit

StrangleHold said:


> Technical Preview expires on October 1, 2015
> 
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-faq-system-requirements-pc



That's when the latest one (10041) expires. Earlier builds such as 9841, 9860 and 9879 expire in April (which initially lead me to believe that April was the release month for 10 but now I think October might be).

Speaking of Build 10041, I have it in VMware. Seems a lot like 9926 but with the transparent Start Menu, smaller Start button and new icons as seen in the leaks of 10036 (which I also had) but I heard that Cortana was meant to work for UK systems in 10041 but it isn't for me at all.  It could just be the VM or perhaps it's because of my upgrade from 10036 but it doesn't seem to work for me.


----------



## ninjabubbles3

Half my games dont work with this stupid update.

Both games got updates right before tehy stopped so maybe thats the issue


----------



## spirit

ninjabubbles3 said:


> Half my games dont work with this stupid update.
> 
> Both games got updates right before tehy stopped so maybe thats the issue



Remember that Build 10041 is a 'fast ring' build meaning that it is one that is pushed out to the Windows Insiders who choose to get the builds more frequently but know that there may be more bugs.

If you're running a Preview OS as you primary OS then you have to expect things like that with each update.

I'm looking forward to trying out Spartan and a UK version of Cortana in the upcoming builds! :good:


----------



## m3incorp

voyagerfan99 said:


> Interesting that they'd skip 9 and go right to 10.



They've done it before. Where is Windows 4, 5 and Windows 6?


----------



## StrangleHold

m3incorp said:


> They've done it before. Where is Windows 4, 5 and Windows 6?



Windows had NT 4.0 which was Windows 4. Windows 2000 was Windows 5. Windows XP was Windows 5.1. Windows Vista was Windows 6.


----------



## m3incorp

LOL Microsoft didn't call them that. 



StrangleHold said:


> Windows had NT 4.0 which was Windows 4. Windows 2000 was Windows 5. Windows XP was Windows 5.1. Windows Vista was Windows 6.


----------



## Darren

m3incorp said:


> LOL Microsoft didn't call them that.



No they didn't. You asked where they were and there they are. They just go in and out of using their numbering system. Who cares how it's numbered or what it's called? Windows 8.1 was Windows "9" for continuity sake but it's irrelevant really.

Also there's a pretty good chance they did call them that in the development stage. XP is akin to Windows 2000 in a similar way to how 8.1 is similar to 8.0. Might have smallish visual and functional changes but largely a similar OS.


----------



## StrangleHold

m3incorp said:


> LOL Microsoft didn't call them that.



Is they did. Microsoft has always numbered the OS. The release name is just a name they decide to use for the public. They all have a internal Microsoft number.


----------



## johnb35

Here is proof for the different version numbers.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724832(v=vs.85).aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_Windows_versions
http://www.gaijin.at/en/lstwinver.php

Actually the last link explains better I think.


----------



## Jiniix

Does anyone know if you can keep your license status but do a clean install?
I really don't want to do a upgrade directly, much prefer clean installs


----------



## Shane

Jiniix said:


> Does anyone know if you can keep your license status but do a clean install?
> I really don't want to do a upgrade directly, much prefer clean installs



If you cant..Just like you can do a clean install with other "Upgrade" versions of windows,I'm sure people will find a way too.


----------



## spirit

I'm just downloading Build 10049 from Windows Update in my VMware VM of 10041 as we speak. Apparently it has the anticipated Project Spartan browser included. I cannot wait to try it out! 

Really it would be good to try it on my Surface Pro with the pen because apparently you can draw on web pages, but my 24" monitor on my desktop is a touch screen and works with my Surface Pro pen - just hoping the VM allows the touch capabilities to work OK!


----------



## spirit

So I finally got 10049 installed. For some reason I was having trouble upgrading from 10041 to 10049 in VMware Workstation 11 - the upgrade just hung and when it finished after 4 hours Spartan didn't work at all. So I installed 9926 in VirtualBox and upgraded to 10049 and it works fine!

10049 seems to run a little slowly in my VirtualBox VM, but at least I can get it to work unlike in VMware.  Spartan seems to be a nice browser, but some sites, such as this one, don't seem to work great with it. For example I can't log into this site using Spartan but perhaps the forum software being old doesn't help or the fact that Spartan is a beta browser. 

The inking capabilities are cool. It would be ideal if I could try it on my Surface Pro and use my Surface Pen to add notes but I don't want Windows 10 on my Surface just yet (I use it every day and it needs to work so I have 8.1 Pro on it) but you can add notes using a mouse which is quite cool. 

Looking forward to seeing where this goes and also looking forward to seeing what add ons become available for it! Here's a screenshot:



Spartan on Windows 10 Build 10049 by ThinkPad Review, on Flickr


----------



## strollin

I have no trouble logging into this forum from the Spartan browser, made this post from Spartan.


----------



## spirit

strollin said:


> I have no trouble logging into this forum from the Spartan browser, posting from Spartan now.



Weird. It wouldn't log me on for some reason. Said that I didn't have permission or something. I may need to use www.computerforum.com rather than just computerforum.com perhaps. I'll try again tomorrow. :good:


----------



## johnb35

Yes, always use the www in front.  This has been discussed so many times.


----------



## strollin

I just used computerforum.com, no www in front.


----------



## johnb35

strollin said:


> I just used computerforum.com, no www in front.



A lot of members having logging in issues or cookie issues when not using the www in front.  I would start using the www.


----------



## spirit

Strollin are you using Windows 10 on a real machine or in a hypervisor/VM like I am?


----------



## strollin

I'm using VMWare Player.  Version 6.0.5 build-2443746.


----------



## silv55

I just updated to Win 10 Tp build 10049 and my 2 HP Dv/5/6 are running great.
and i just used the update style from win 7 up and i never encountered any issue, some people say Clean install is better, but on my Hp laptops i don't see any difference,
the only think i found in build 10049 was these 2 apps on my Desktop that i deleted  Korean Media player,these do not cause any problem, though i'm curious,
i found this about it;

 microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_install/flashing-desktop-korean-media-player-center/992d4db3-65c1-47fe-afcb-f00d3b604993


----------



## spirit

Yeah I thought the Korean stuff on the desktop in 10049 was a bit weird too. Haven't had a look at what they are yet.


----------



## strollin

I didn't get any Korean media player on the desktop when I upgraded from 10041 to 10049.  Where did you guys get the build from?  I got it thru Windows Update.

The link that silv55 posted wouldn't work for me but I did track the info down and it appears that some people do get those icons on the desktop.  I guess I was just lucky that I didn't get them.


----------



## spirit

strollin said:


> I didn't get any Korean media player on the desktop when I upgraded from 10041 to 10049.  Where did you guys get the build from?  I got it thru Windows Update.



Windows Update and I got it from upgrading to 10041 to 10049 (but I had the leaked 10036 installed prior to 10041). That was in VMware.

But in my 10049 install in VirtualBox which I installed through Windows Update from 9926 I don't have the Korean stuff.

Weird!


----------



## silv55

spirit said:


> Windows Update and I got it from upgrading to 10041 to 10049 (but I had the leaked 10036 installed prior to 10041). That was in VMware.
> 
> But in my 10049 install in VirtualBox which I installed through Windows Update from 9926 I don't have the Korean stuff.
> 
> Weird!



http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...op-icons/a0bacf96-434f-4f46-a1ad-a299b8498dbc


 For those that got these apps on the desktop,deleting them is not enough,we have to clear files too,Right click on the shortcuts in the "start" / "all apps" menu and select "open file location" and delete


----------



## spirit

silv55 said:


> http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...op-icons/a0bacf96-434f-4f46-a1ad-a299b8498dbc
> 
> 
> For those that got these apps on the desktop,deleting them is not enough,we have to clear files too,Right click on the shortcuts in the "start" / "all apps" menu and select "open file location" and delete



Thanks for the information. Windows 10 in my VMware VMs is so screwed up right now so I think I'll just delete the VMs and in my Windows 10 10049 VirtualBox VM the Korean icons aren't there.


----------



## StrangleHold

Other then the Korean thing, 10049 fixed a few issues I was having.


----------



## C4C

Personally I don't like the rounded log in screen of the latest build and how it's turning into what looks like OS X on the outside, intuitive + still-Windows-like Linux on the in..


----------



## spirit

C4C said:


> Personally I don't like the rounded log in screen of the latest build and how it's turning into what looks like OS X on the outside, intuitive + still-Windows-like Linux on the in..



Actually I quite like it. Circular profile pictures seem to be the rage these days. I noticed Flicker now has circular profile pictures too as do a number of sites I use.


----------



## WeatherMan

How can I pick up the latest version?

My system keeps BSODs every so often, and I've had this build for at least 3 months I reckon


----------



## silv55

WeatherMan said:


> How can I pick up the latest version?
> 
> My system keeps BSODs every so often, and I've had this build for at least 3 months I reckon



Go in the all settings, click Updates, and click advance settings, and change 
'Slow'' to ''Fast ''and check for updates.the fast gives the latest updates,slow ,only when MS has the stable build.


----------



## spirit

Build 10051 is the latest leaked version. I got my hands on it and there's not a lot different from 10049 asides new Mail and Calendar apps (remember that the Mail and Calendar apps were broken in Builds 10041 and 10049?) They look kind of nice but for some reason the apps won't sync with my Office 365 email account - the apps in the earlier builds of 10 and the apps in 8.1 do though. The People app in 10051 is still broken. 

Screenshots of the Enterprise SKU of 10056 were leaked yesterday by the renowned Russian hacker group, WZor, who are the people that have leaked a few Windows 10 builds and screenshots. The Recycle Bin now has a new icon and apparently the Start Menu is sizeable again just like it was in builds prior to 9926. The full build will probably leak within the next few days I reckon: http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows-10-build-10056-screenshots-leaked-full-build-may-follow



WeatherMan said:


> How can I pick up the latest version?
> 
> My system keeps BSODs every so often, and I've had this build for at least 3 months I reckon


Which build are you running at the moment?

If you want to use 10049 (which is the latest official public/'non-leaked' release) then you can install Build 9926 fresh and then update to 10049 in Windows Update. Download the Build 9926 ISO here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/preview-iso

Alternatively, if you Google 'Windows 10 10049 ISO' and click on the top result you can download a supposedly official Build 10049 ISO (32-bit or 64-bit). I have downloaded the 64-bit ISO but I haven't tried it yet. I won't put a link in this post just in case posting a link to an unofficial download location breaches any forum rules regarding software piracy.

If you're experiencing BSODs it might be due to your hardware (check RAM and/or hard disk - usual culprits) or it could be down to your hardware drivers not working correctly with Windows 10. Remember that beta operating systems aren't the best operating systems to use on your main computers because of things like this.


I still think the earlier NT 6.4 builds (9841, 9860 and 9879) are more stable than the NT 10 builds. Some people are now speculating that Windows 10 RTM could be released as early as June! http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-10-rtm-june-is-the-target


----------



## spirit

I got Build 10056 when it leaked on April 10th. It adds some new features such as a dark theme for the Action Centre/Notification Area, a new Recycle Bin icon, new icon for the multiple desktops in the taskbar and it also reintroduces the ability to resize the Start Menu like you could in builds prior to 9926. 

If you go into Windows Update on this build you will see that 10061 is available to download, but it fails to download and install. Apparently this is because 10061 is an internal build for Microsoft employees only. Latest news suggests that Microsoft is now up to Build 10100 and the next build (Build 101xx) may be the Release Candidate. I'm all ears for that!  Not sure if a June RTM release is a bit early though.


----------



## manoluv

Troncoso said:


> Until you think about the fact that they went 1, 2, 3, NT, 95, 98, 2000, ME, XP, Vista, 7, 8 (that order might not be perfect)
> 
> It makes sense that they just straight up don't know how to count. I'm still waiting for Windows Batman Symbol.



Don't forget 98SE

I tried 10 for about an hour. I'm gonna wait for the third party software to 'Sevenize' it before I ever install it again.


----------



## spirit

10061 has now officially been released to the fast ring by Microsoft. Apparently there are issues with installing software in it where you can't launch anything after you've installed it!


----------



## strollin

32-bit apps can't be launched from the Start Menu.  You need to do a Search for them and then Pin to Taskbar in order to launch them.


----------



## spirit

10061 doesn't look much different to 10056. Going to skip 10061 and wait for the next release or leak - whichever comes first.

Lots of screenshots of 10064 were leaked days before Microsoft released 10061 and apparently 10106 is the latest on the Build Feed.


----------



## strollin

I don't mess with leaked builds, they're not worth my time.  Lots of people who had the leaked 10056 build had to go back to the "official" 10049 build in order to install 10061.  I'm not that anxious, I'll wait until the next MS released build.


----------



## spirit

I was playing around with Windows 10 on my phone today (Nokia Lumia 625).

New features (from 8.1):
- Project Spartan browser
- Overhauled Start Screen tiles on top of wallpaper rather than wallpaper showing through tiles
- Overhauled Settings menu with icons very similar to that from Windows 10
- Overhauled People and Messages app - now your contacts have little circular profile pictures
- New Mail and Calendar apps very similar (or the same, in fact) to the ones you see in Windows 10 Builds 10051, 10056 and 10061

Improvements:
- Much easier to find options in the Settings menu now that everything is grouped together
- Push notifications for Outlook app (can't remember if previous versions of Windows Phone had this).
- Newly installed apps now appear at the very top of the All Apps screen for a little while
- More settings and options in the Notification Area - good for quick and easy access

Things I didn't like so much:
- Mail app tile now holds all of your accounts - I preferred having separate tiles for each of my accounts
- Some context menus and icons are really too small to touch - need to have bigger icons/links in the Settings menu etc
- People app doesn't appear to have a live tile. Not sure if that's a bug or intentional but in Windows Phone 7 and 8 I loved the People live tile

Bugs and features missing:
- Seems to be much slower than 8.1 - lag between pressing the Back button on my phone and actually going back to the previous screen
- Can't press the Back button on your phone to go back to Start Screen from All Apps screen (need to swipe instead)
- No version of Office included as of yet and Preview apps aren't available yet - the only Office apps available are OneDrive and Outlook (they come pre-installed), Lync 2010/2013 and Office 365 Admin (which you can download from the Store)
- On some phones you can't turn off mobile data (but you can on my 625)
- Project Spartan is included but for me at least I couldn't use the keyboard with it, so it's useless

Verdict: 10 will be good when it is stable and probably worth the upgrade from 8.1 since it will be free and there will be more new features such as these new Office apps which aren't available yet, but for the time being it's too slow for me to use on my 625 every day, I think. I have gone back to 8.1. I only had 10 for a few hours. 

Some screenshots: 

I'm not sure how many people here have used Windows Phone 8.1, so you may not be able to tell the difference between 8.1 and 10 if you haven't used 8.1 before, but those that have will see the differences.


----------



## silv55

I upgraded to Win 10 Tp build 10074 i had problems because this build came with touch-pad  drivers by default,my HP Dv 5,6 have no touch-pad can i uninstall  ''Synaptic pointing drivers''? these drivers are for the touch-pad,


----------



## Punk

Just updated the Pro evaluation build:


----------



## silv55

Punk said:


> Just updated the Pro evaluation build:





Thanks,well i finely decided to make an ISO of Win 10 TP build 10074  and clean install rather then update and all good for now.


----------



## WhoX

*Windows 10 for rent*

I read in an article today that Microsoft might be considering charging an annual (yearly) fee for Windows, starting with version 10. I don't mind paying an annual fee for MS office, but I would feel a little insecure about renting an operating system.

 What do you all think about renting Windows?


----------



## Geoff

WhoX said:


> I read in an article today that Microsoft might be considering charging an annual (yearly) fee for Windows, starting with version 10. I don't mind paying an annual fee for MS office, but I would feel a little insecure about renting an operating system.
> 
> What do you all think about renting Windows?


First I heard of this...


----------



## Punk

WhoX said:


> I read in an article today that Microsoft might be considering charging an annual (yearly) fee for Windows, starting with version 10. I don't mind paying an annual fee for MS office, but I would feel a little insecure about renting an operating system.
> 
> What do you all think about renting Windows?





Geoff said:


> First I heard of this...



Same here...

I feel this is all speculation and not real information... In fact when you google this, you only find people saying how much it would cost if they were to make a yearly fee (based on the price of Office and Office 365).

If it was the case, I won't be using Windows anymore, their OS are expansive enough when you upgrade or buy a new one (upgrade to 8 was 100 euros...). I don't want to have that kind of fee every year to use my computer. I would probably go Linux if that was the case.


----------



## Geoff

Microsoft wants everyone off of Windows 8 and earlier, which is why Windows 10 is being given away for free for most users who upgrade.  If they made it a yearly subscription, you can bet most people would stick with whatever OS they have now.


----------



## WhoX

This is the comment I was talking about.



> But don't think Microsoft is getting touchy-feely. The software maker's chief operating office recently spoke about moving from one-time licensing fees to an "annuity conversion," meaning that the company may still be trying to figure out how to loop people, or at least corporations, into paying an annual fee.



original article

Maybe Microsoft will offer an option. Pay annually (which will allow the user to get any new version automatically) or a one time payment until the next version shows up. Any way the above statement in the CBS article is not a confirmation, so we will have to wait and see.


----------



## beers

With Windows 8 end of support in 2023 there's really no rush, so we can sit back and see how it pans out.  If there isn't a competitive offering even with their yearly fee by that time then it's a full time Linux conversion for this guy


----------



## Punk

beers said:


> If there isn't a competitive offering even with their yearly fee by that time then it's a full time Linux conversion for this guy



To be honest this doesn't bother me at all 

That would be a bad move from MS though, I'm pretty sure that with all those viruses and adwares (more present on MS than Macs), people will look more into getting a mac than a PC. Especially if Mac is more and more compatible with all softwares and games. Linux could go that way too, and get MS users that don't want to pay a yearly fee. But that's only in the case this happens


----------



## silv55

Money for an OPS no,no, an no;never;


----------



## Geoff

silv55 said:


> Money for an OPS no,no, an no;never;


Microsoft has always cost money for new users.  Paying for an OS isn't a big deal, but paying yearly is.


----------



## WhoX

If most companies go the way of renting software, then annual fees for software could stack up real fast.

Here's what I pay monthly and yearly for software already:

- anti-virus 6x PC and 5x cell phone/tablet licenses = 15 Euros ($17) monthly
- Office 365 5x PC and mobile licenses = 83 Euros ($93) yearly
- Adobe product 1x license = 24 Euros ($27) monthly

- Windows 10 (if Microsoft decides to rent their OS) 3-5 license pack = estimate 30-65 Euros ($34-$73) yearly

The products I annually pay for make good business sense, but Windows wouldn't. I don't upgrade to a new OS every time Microsoft introduces a different version, so paying an annual fee would force me to pay more money than I would like.


----------



## Shane

Geoff said:


> Microsoft has always cost money for new users.  Paying for an OS isn't a big deal, but paying yearly is.



I wouldnt pay for a yearly plan,Absulutly not..i was wondering why they didnt consider this for their Operating systems when their office suite went Pay yearly.


----------



## johnb35

Yeah, no way in hell would I pay on a yearly basis to use an OS.


----------



## silv55

Geoff said:


> Microsoft has always cost money for new users.  Paying for an OS isn't a big deal, but paying yearly is.



Geoff: give me a good reason why should i pay for an OPS?
first of all i mostly use my PC for Web Browsing and Streaming,my main OPS is Ubuntu 14.04 and and as you know it's free, it does all i need same as Win and as streaming  video i think it does it better because i don't have  worries about streaming all sites,no need for Protection,when i use Win always i'm worried i get infected  with virus and malware crap on some sites,since i don't pay for any software protections.


----------



## beers

Why do you insert your own acronym of OPS when the standardized one is already accepted as OS?



silv55 said:


> Geoff: give me a good reason why should i pay for an OPS?



That's a personal decision for you but if you want to use Windows without being a stealing pirate thief then you'll have to pay for it or acquire a 'legal' copy through various promotions or bundles.


----------



## StrangleHold

10074 killed the Spartan browser on mine.


----------



## Punk

silv55 said:


> Geoff: give me a good reason why should i pay for an OPS?
> first of all i mostly use my PC for Web Browsing and Streaming,my main OPS is Ubuntu 14.04 and and as you know it's free, it does all i need same as Win and as streaming  video i think it does it better because i don't have  worries about streaming all sites,no need for Protection,when i use Win always i'm worried i get infected  with virus and malware crap on some sites,since i don't pay for any software protections.



Well if you're worried about getting a virus on Windows with free A-V because you're streaming, that means the website you're streaming on aren't safe and legal. 
Free a-v and intelligent browsing is all you need on Windows, never got any virus since Win95 (first OS I ever used).

What do you mean Stranglehold? What happened?


----------



## silv55

Punk said:


> Well if you're worried about getting a virus on Windows with free A-V because you're streaming, that means the website you're streaming on aren't safe and legal.
> Free a-v and intelligent browsing is all you need on Windows, never got any virus since Win95 (first OS I ever used).
> 
> What do you mean Stranglehold? What happened?



what are you talking about illegal streams or websites? are you preaching morals? yes i watch all streaming sites, what's wrong with that? everybody does,i don't give a damn if they are legal or illegal,i'm not a cop to investigate,
there are plenty of cops out there to check if these sites are legal or not,it's not my duty or yours for that matter to foresee that,what i want is to watch my favorite sports and they are available, i pay my internet fee,so go preach morals to other door.


----------



## Punk

silv55 said:


> what are you talking about illegal streams or websites? are you preaching morals? yes i watch all streaming sites, what's wrong with that? everybody does,i don't give a damn if they are legal or illegal,i'm not a cop to investigate,
> there are plenty of cops out there to check if these sites are legal or not,it's not my duty or yours for that matter to foresee that,what i want is to watch my favorite sports and they are available, i pay my internet fee,so go preach morals to other door.



You really have to chill out dude, and please read the posts.

I'll translate what I said for you in easier terms:

Safe browsing/intelligent browsing on Windows = no viruses

I don't care if they are legal or not, I don't care where I watch my streams on Windows = Chances of viruses, adware increased.


----------



## StrangleHold

Punk said:


> What do you mean Stranglehold? What happened?



 It will open for about 3 seconds then just close. Didn't happen till after the 74 update.


----------



## Geoff

silv55 said:


> Geoff: give me a good reason why should i pay for an OPS?
> first of all i mostly use my PC for Web Browsing and Streaming,my main OPS is Ubuntu 14.04 and and as you know it's free, it does all i need same as Win and as streaming  video i think it does it better because i don't have  worries about streaming all sites,no need for Protection,when i use Win always i'm worried i get infected  with virus and malware crap on some sites,since i don't pay for any software protections.


Because some people prefer Mac OS X or Windows, either for ease of use, compatibility with apps, or because it's required for work that the user does with their computer.  Linux is great, but OS X and Windows are also great, even though they cost money.  

If you need support, you aren't going to get that with a free distro of Linux.


----------



## Punk

Geoff said:


> If you need support, you aren't going to get that with a free distro of Linux.



Actually when it comes to help you can find some great advices on the Linux forums. At least for Ubuntu and Mint, both distros I tried.

Apart from that, I agree and second what you said.



StrangleHold said:


> It will open for about 3 seconds then just close. Didn't happen till after the 74 update.



I thought it was my version not working but I can't even get into windows store.


----------



## Geoff

Punk said:


> Actually when it comes to help you can find some great advices on the Linux forums. At least for Ubuntu and Mint, both distros I tried.
> 
> Apart from that, I agree and second what you said.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it was my version not working but I can't even get into windows store.


I'm talking about phone support, not community support.


----------



## StrangleHold

Punk said:


> I thought it was my version not working but I can't even get into windows store.


 
 I haven't even tried. Surprisingly it opens Windows Store just fine. If this thing is released in July they have a lot of bugs to work out. Seems a lot of bugs are different on different computer setups.


----------



## Punk

StrangleHold said:


> I haven't even tried. Surprisingly it opens Windows Store just fine. If this thing is released in July they have a lot of bugs to work out. Seems a lot of bugs are different on different computer setups.



It might be coming from my VM too, I'm a total noob at VMs


----------



## spirit

10074 is a build that has worked well for me in VMware at least. There are still a few bugs but it's much improved over 10061 and the earlier builds. To me at least, this is the byuild that signals RTM is near! 

Microsoft has announced the different versions of Windows 10 that will be available, see here: http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwi...ing-windows-10-editions/#.VVPEqxXKSY4.twitter

The rumours about subscription aren't true for the time being by the way and the free upgrade to 10 from 8.1 and 7 will only be free for the first year. The rumours about 10 being the final major release are true however - Microsoft has announced that too.


----------



## Shane

spirit said:


> The rumours about subscription *aren't true for the time being* by the way and the free upgrade to 10 from 8.1 and 7 *will only be free for the first year.* The rumours about 10 being the final major release are true however - Microsoft has announced that too.



Meh and meh...just not feeling windows 10 at all to be honest. 

Cant wait for the day that Linux finally can run games at the same level or better than windows..then its goodbye.


----------



## spirit

Just to clear up any confusion about the free upgrade, the upgrade to 10 is free for the first year that 10 is on sale. Once you have upgraded, 10 is free on that device. See:



			
				Microsoft said:
			
		

> As we announced earlier this year, for the first time ever, we are offering the full versions of Windows 10 Home, Windows 10 Mobile and Windows 10 Pro as a free and easy upgrade for qualifying Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 devices that upgrade in the first year after launch.** Once you upgrade, you have Windows 10 for free on that device.
> 
> ** More information about the free upgrade offer can be found at Windows.com.



It's *not* a case that you have to pay to use Windows 10 a year after the upgrade!

Personally I think Windows 10 will be one of the best versions there has been so far. 8.1 is my favourite. It will be interesting to see how it works on a touch device compared to 8.1. I'll be using it on my Surface Pro when it comes out and we'll have it on 25 Surface 3s at school.


----------



## C4C

spirit said:


> Just to clear up any confusion about the free upgrade, the upgrade to 10 is free for the first year that 10 is on sale. Once you have upgraded, 10 is free on that device. See:
> 
> 
> 
> It's *not* a case that you have to pay to use Windows 10 a year after the upgrade!



That's good to know... I got a copy of Win 8.1 from a MS employee ($25!) and I'll be doing the upgrade to Win10.

I currently have no issues with the Tech Preview besides the super slow and laggy search bars (they pull from the store and bing too).
I also dislike the automatic updates but oh well.. Liking 10074 quite a bit since that start menu takes over the whole screen...


----------



## spirit

10074 was one of the best builds. They released 10122 the other week but it's not as stable at 10074 and upon upgrading to 10122 from 10074 my Start Menu tiles got messed up and there was a noticeable decrease in performance.






10125 was leaked the other day, I'm just downloading it now. Apparently it introduces more aero/blurry/transparent effects (like we saw on the Start Menu in builds 10074 and 10122), the same Windows Image Backup that Windows 7 had and also Windows Hello which is facial recognition log-in.



Shane said:


> Cant wait for the day that Linux finally can run games at the same level or better than windows..then its goodbye.



I've been seeing a lot of people saying that they want to move to Linux 'when Linux does what Windows can do'. People have been saying that for years and years now. I'm not sure if Linux will ever do everything that Windows can do. I think it may just be wishful thinking believing that one day it will. I suppose it depends on what you want to do though. If you want to browse the internet and write emails then Linux has been able to do that for years but if you want to play games or run stuff like CAD software or other software that is only available on Windows, I think you'll be waiting some time! 

A lot of people I know who went to Linux because 'they were tired of Windows' ended up going back eventually, usually because of things like driver support or installing Linux and then finding out that some software they'd been using a lot on Windows doesn't work on Linux.


----------



## spirit

So here is the leaked Build 10125. It features a new icon set (much nicer than the icons in previous builds and a lot closer to those in Windows 7 and 8.1), a new sound set, Windows Hello, a transparent Action Centre, Windows 7 Image Backup and interestingly no option to make the Start Screen take over the whole screen on Desktop Mode unless you enable it in the Personalisation panel as seen in the screenshot below:










The theme I am using is the Reflections Theme by the way, you can download it here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/reflections-download-theme see more themes here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/themes


----------



## Krovos

I downloaded 10125 today and I am pretty dissapointed with Windows 10.  Here are my thoughts...

- "The start menu is back!"
I've been using StartMenu8 on Windows 8 since the moment I installed it.  Win10 restoring the start menu i feel is hyped fanboyism for Windows as a brand; this option has been available for years through other software developers .  Something I actually grew accustom to was right clicking the start menu for system programs to navigate myself around my computer, which in my opinion was a nice step from Windows 8 into 8.1.  Surprisingly, with the absence of a start menu on an OS, I grew very accustomed to opening programs with cmd.exe and run.exe.

-Windowed Apps
How anyone likes to use Window's apps is beyond me, but throwing them into bordered box still doesn't gain my affection.  Windows apps are clunky and take FOREVER to load up.  Also, this is a feature you could have received in Win8/8.1 using "Modern Mix".    

-Microsoft Edge (Project Spartan)
I don't like referring to myself as a Google fanboy, but I do believe Google provides superior productivity and browsing software.  Being a Chrome user, Spartan seems very clunky to me.  Browsing doesn't feel as fluent and I can't think of a possible reason to ever use "web-notes".  I believe software companies now a days have a profound ability to convince an audience to use features that in theory no one really needs to use in the first place.  Call me a critic, but web notes seems to be that sort of feature.

-Cortana
Cortana is an interesting adaptation to a desktop operating system, but I feel like this is Microsofts attempt at competing on a playing field no one wants to use.  Voice commands prove very useful on mobile platforms, but there is a very special peripheral that desktops have which most mobile devices do not, a keyboard.  Am I really saving much time navigating through Cortana as opposed to a normal web browser or search bar?  I think not.

-Taskview
The only feature I support and enjoy within Windows 10!  I don't know what else to say other than you can now snap to additional grids that were unavailable in Windows 8/8.1.  

Overall, Windows 10 feels like Windows 8 "Makeover Edition".  I was expecting something more revolutionary and innovative to come from Microsoft, but seemed to prove myself wrong.  Microsoft has not done anything that hadn't been done in the past from other developers, they just took everyone else's ideas, jammed it all into their OS, and said, "MINE!"


----------



## Laquer Head

I just got 32-bit windows 10 working on an ancient HP MINI 110 netbook. 

Intel Atom, 2GB DDR2 667, and an SSD

Had countless DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION shutdowns..but after new firmware and some other tweaks its working relatively smooth


----------



## Punk

Well Windows 10 upgrade is available now!

There is a little windows Icon in my icon on the right next to my date and time that offers you the free upgrade to the full version of win10. It tells you can either install it now or program a date on which you want it to install.


----------



## WhoX

Punk said:


> Well Windows 10 upgrade is available now!
> 
> There is a little windows Icon in my icon on the right next to my date and time that offers you the free upgrade to the full version of win10. It tells you can either install it now or program a date on which you want it to install.



Got the icon too, but it tells me "reserve your free upgrade to Windows 10 now. It will download once available...". Included is a presentation of Windows 10's new features.


----------



## Shane

Punk said:


> Well Windows 10 upgrade is available now!
> 
> There is a little windows Icon in my icon on the right next to my date and time that offers you the free upgrade to the full version of win10. It tells you can either install it now or program a date on which you want it to install.





			
				techradar.com said:
			
		

> Myerson announced in January that Windows 10 will be free for Windows 7 and 8.1 users for its first year



For the first year. 

So after a year we have to pay for features that should have been standard/Updated for windows 8/8.1 users..great microsoft,Just great.

Il just stick with Windows 8.1 and Startisback,Does what i need it to.


----------



## spirit

July 29th http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/06/01/hello-world-windows-10-available-on-july-29/ 

And no. Like I've said here loads of times before, the upgrade to Windows 10 is free within the first year of 10 being on sale! If you get it within that time you get a full version on that device. It's free.


----------



## Shane

spirit said:


> July 29th http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/06/01/hello-world-windows-10-available-on-july-29/
> 
> And no. Like I've said here loads of times before, the upgrade to Windows 10 is free within the first year of 10 being on sale! If you get it within that time you get a full version on that device. It's free.



hmm,we will see.


----------



## spirit

Just to clear this up again, once and for all...



			
				Microsoft said:
			
		

> As we announced earlier this year, for the first time ever, we are offering the full versions of Windows 10 Home, Windows 10 Mobile and Windows 10 Pro as a free and easy upgrade for qualifying Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 devices that upgrade in the first year after launch.** Once you upgrade, you have Windows 10 for free on that device.
> 
> ** More information about the free upgrade offer can be found at Windows.com.



It's *not* a case that you have to pay to use Windows 10 a year after the upgrade!


Build 10130 is the latest btw and it's available to Fast Ring Insiders as an upgrade from older builds. It's very similar to the leaked 10125 I posted screenshots of last week. Music app has been updated slightly.


----------



## 2string1

I have that icon down by the clock. It says get windows 10 now. If I get it will I have to pay for it. Something about free for a year. What happens after the year is up? I have 8.1 now.


----------



## Geoff

2string1 said:


> I have that icon down by the clock. It says get windows 10 now. If I get it will I have to pay for it. Something about free for a year. What happens after the year is up? I have 8.1 now.


Did you really not even bother to read the post right above yours?


spirit said:


> Just to clear this up again, once and for all...
> 
> 
> 
> It's *not* a case that you have to pay to use Windows 10 a year after the upgrade!
> 
> 
> Build 10130 is the latest btw and it's available to Fast Ring Insiders as an upgrade from older builds. It's very similar to the leaked 10125 I posted screenshots of last week. Music app has been updated slightly.


----------



## Punk

Shane said:


> For the first year.
> 
> So after a year we have to pay for features that should have been standard/Updated for windows 8/8.1 users..great microsoft,Just great.
> 
> Il just stick with Windows 8.1 and Startisback,Does what i need it to.



You sound just like me when we discussed Win8 before it came out.

"it's going to be another Vista". Well I hope you are as wrong as I was...


----------



## WhoX

Not really sure if I'll take the bait. I'm still a little gun shy after my experience with Windows 8. I had it on my system for three months before I went back to Windows 7. Upgrading and then eventually re-installing Windows 7 wasn't my idea of time well spent.

I like Windows 7, a lot. I think I'll wait...even if I have to pay for a Windows 10 license later.


----------



## spirit

2string1 said:


> I have that icon down by the clock. It says get windows 10 now. If I get it will I have to pay for it. Something about free for a year. What happens after the year is up? I have 8.1 now.



It even says it's free!





*Free for the first year that 10 is on sale, free on that device if you have upgraded within the first year!*

And for the record you can't download it until July 29th because that's when 10 is launched to RTM. Reserving an upgrade only means it will download when you turn your computer on on July 29th, it's not like they're handing out a limited number of copies or something. *You'll be able to download it for free anywhere between July 29th 2015 and July 29th 2016. *

How many more times?


----------



## Punk

WhoX said:


> Not really sure if I'll take the bait. I'm still a little gun shy after my experience with Windows 8. I had it on my system for three months before I went back to Windows 7. Upgrading and then eventually re-installing Windows 7 wasn't my idea of time well spent.
> 
> I like Windows 7, a lot. I think I'll wait...even if I have to pay for a Windows 10 license later.



Win8 was a disaster when it came out. Now it's an awesome and well working OS (8.1).


----------



## spirit

Punk said:


> Win8 was a disaster when it came out. Now it's an awesome and well working OS (8.1).



Actually when it came out it was a good, stable OS it's just it took people, including myself, time to get used to the new layout etc. I used it for months before 8.1 came out, it was solid as a rock and a really nice OS once you got used to it!


----------



## Punk

spirit said:


> Actually when it came out it was a good, stable OS it's just it took people, including myself, time to get used to the new layout etc. I used it for months before 8.1 came out, it was solid as a rock and a really nice OS once you got used to it!



It had many bugs and compatibility issues. 8.1 fixed 99% of the problems.


----------



## spirit

Punk said:


> It had many bugs and compatibility issues. 8.1 fixed 99% of the problems.



Huh? Worked fine on all of the systems I had it on and I don't remember people going on about bugs and compatibility issues when it was new, I just remember people endlessly banging on about the lack of the Start Button and Start Menu!

Only bugs I can remember it had when it came out for me was with the Realtek Audio Driver - used to play the Device Connect and Device Disconnect sounds randomly. Fixed by updating to a beta driver which I used for a while and then eventually it was patched. And there was a version of AMD Cataylst Drivers that didn't work too well for a while, but those was the only issues. Could've been many more! 

Windows 8 was one of the most stable versions of Windows there was. Much more stable than 7!


----------



## johnb35

Windows 10 home users won't have the option to defer installing windows updates either.  They will be downloaded and installed automatically, there won't be a way to stop them.  Although Pro and Enterprise editions will have the choice to not install the updates.  So windows home users may be reinstalling windows more often.  I can see it already.  Not sure if I'll upgrade within the first year or not.


----------



## spirit

Interesting news re Windows Updates, didn't know about that...


----------



## voyagerfan99

That's very stupid on Microsoft's part. I can see installation issues too. Hopefully their system restore/update rollback doesn't suck.


----------



## Punk

spirit said:


> Huh? Worked fine on all of the systems I had it on and I don't remember people going on about bugs and compatibility issues when it was new, I just remember people endlessly banging on about the lack of the Start Button and Start Menu!
> 
> Only bugs I can remember it had when it came out for me was with the Realtek Audio Driver - used to play the Device Connect and Device Disconnect sounds randomly. Fixed by updating to a beta driver which I used for a while and then eventually it was patched. And there was a version of AMD Cataylst Drivers that didn't work too well for a while, but those was the only issues. Could've been many more!
> 
> Windows 8 was one of the most stable versions of Windows there was. Much more stable than 7!



Easy exemple, my GF's laptop was full of bugs and various programs were crashing. Update to 8.1 did the trick.

Of course I do not base this on one experience, actually tried win8 when I upgraded my desktop, before going to 8.1. Same deal. 

Anyway I think I'll give them a few updates before I upgrade to 10.


----------



## spirit

Punk said:


> Easy exemple, my GF's laptop was full of bugs and various programs were crashing. Update to 8.1 did the trick.
> 
> Of course I do not base this on one experience, actually tried win8 when I upgraded my desktop, before going to 8.1. Same deal.
> 
> Anyway I think I'll give them a few updates before I upgrade to 10.



Weird. Worked fine for me and a lot of other people. Had it on quite a few machines around here and no issues bar the Realtek and AMD issues, both of which were sorted out eventually. When it was the latest Microsoft OS it was a good one once you got over the lack of a Start Button/Menu. 

Of course, going back to it from 8.1 you see what improvements they made in 8.1 (and it's not just the addition of a Start Button, there's other stuff too such as much-improved searching in 8.1), but when I used 8 as my primary OS before 8.1 came out it was a good OS. 


I must admit that the marketing about Windows 10 being a 'familiar' and 'simple' experience is definitely not the first time I've heard about a new version of Windows being 'simple to use'... 










...but that was back in the days when I had to pay for it!  

And yes I know they've marketed just about every version of Windows with that same terminology but it still makes me smile. 

(It's been a long time since I've used those discs by the way! )


----------



## tremmor

Seen a icon in the system tray just now. Microsoft with offer for windows 10 now and its mine. I can download and install later it looks like. Anybody else getting this message. If it is then the question is should i. Im using Windows 7 Pro.
Checked the wifes computer just now and same message.


----------



## voyagerfan99

tremmor said:


> Seen a icon in the system tray just now. Microsoft with offer for windows 10 now and its mine. I can download and install later it looks like. Anybody else getting this message. If it is then the question is should i. Im using Windows 7 Pro.
> Checked the wifes computer just now and same message.



If you're happy with 7, stay with it.

I saw the icon this morning on a few of my clients machines.


----------



## Geoff

voyagerfan99 said:


> If you're happy with 7, stay with it.
> 
> I saw the icon this morning on a few of my clients machines.



Just got a notification on mine.


----------



## Krieger

voyagerfan99 said:


> Interesting that they'd skip 9 and go right to 10.



9 is 8.1 technically. They just count 8 & 8.1 as two Windows before 10.

7 is still my OS of choice for now until someone can confirm 10 is as good as 7 or at least close to it. I'll wait a while & see how 10 does before getting it for my next PC build.


----------



## voyagerfan99

Krieger said:


> 9 is 8.1 technically. They just count 8 & 8.1 as two Windows before 10.
> 
> 7 is still my OS of choice for now until someone can confirm 10 is as good as 7 or at least close to it. I'll wait a while & see how 10 does before getting it for my next PC build.



Talk about pulling my quote out of the grave....


----------



## spirit

Build 10134 expected to be the next Fast Ring release for Windows Insiders! http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows-10-build-10134-may-hit-fast-ring-soon-bug-fixes-and-refinements


----------



## hirobo2

Krieger said:


> *9 is 8.1 technically.* They just count 8 & 8.1 as two Windows before 10.
> 
> 7 is still my OS of choice for now until someone can confirm 10 is as good as 7 or at least close to it. I'll wait a while & see how 10 does before getting it for my next PC build.



Not technical.  8.1 *IS* 9!  There is a method in numerology (Pythagoras method) where you reduce a compound number to a single digit by adding them.

So, Windows 8.1 = 8+1 = 9.
8.1 runs on NT kernel version 6.3 = 6+3 = 9.
8.1 comes with .NET framework 4.5 by default.  4.5 = 4+5 = 9.

How about another OS:

Windows 7 SP1.  You can't add 7+1 b/c there is an SP separating them (ie. 7+S+P+1 doesn't work out mathematically, so W7 SP1 remains 7 numerologically).
W7 runs on NT Kernel version 6.1 = 6+1 = 7!

Now Windows 10:
It originally ran on NT kernel 6.4 (until they renamed it to kernel NT10). 6.4 = 6+4 = 10.
Will ship with .NET framework 4.6 = 4+6 = 10!

_The guys in charge of OS naming conventions at Microsoft, they're highly versed in the art of numerology!_

Lastly, why did they name the last update for 8.1 Update 1 (or was it Update 3????) and not Windows 8.11 or 8.2 or 8.1.1?  B/c you can't add 8+1+U+1, so W8.1 U1 remains Windows 9 (according to numerology)!

(Btw, I might sound heretical [to W7 lovers] but you're not gonna believe this anyways.  7 is said to be The Almighty's number (ie. 7th Heaven).  But, in computing terms, it's actually 6 since stuff start counting from 0 in PC terms.  The reason why XP is said to be Microsoft's best produced OS is b/c it came with NT kernel 5.1 = 5+1 = 6 [in PC terms] = 7 [in non-PC terms], which is why XP is commonly referred to as MSFT's moment in [The Almighty's] light.  In real terms, W7 is the impostor while XP was The Almighty's best.  No offense to any one W7 lover).


----------



## WhoX

Some sites reported the reason why Windows 10 was not named Windows 9 was because of Windows 95 legacy code. 



> To save time, some third-party Windows desktop developers used a shorthand to check the version name (not number) of Windows they were installing their app to. Instead of coding apps to check for Windows 95 or Windows 98, developers coded instructions to check for "Windows 9."


----------



## spirit

WhoX said:


> Some sites reported the reason why Windows 10 was not named Windows 9 was because of Windows 95 legacy code.



If you look online you'll find lots of different reasons, including the reason they gave in the keynote on September 30th 2014 which was along the lines of (going from my memory here):



> We have Xbox One, OneDrive, One everything, so surely the next major release of Windows should be called 'Windows One'. But we've already done that. But because this is an important release we want to give it a round number, so it's Windows 10.



They said something like that. 

I don't think anybody has a solid reason why it's called Windows 10. I guess it might be because 8.1 is more like a separate release in its own right than a service pack to 8. 



			
				hirobo2 said:
			
		

> So, Windows 8.1 = 8+1 = 9.
> 8.1 runs on NT kernel version 6.3 = 6+3 = 9.
> 8.1 comes with .NET framework 4.5 by default. 4.5 = 4+5 = 9.


I think you'll find that those are just handy coincidences. That's not solid evidence that 8.1 *is* Windows 9 at all. 

I guess the closest thing you could perhaps argue is that Windows 8.1's build number is 9600 which could perhaps, maybe, possibly suggest that it should be called 'Windows 9'. But remember that the build number for 8 was 9200, with all of the 8xxx builds (and 78xx and 79xx builds) being betas of Windows 8. They went from the final beta build of 8 being Build 8888 to the final release version of 8 being 9200 (8888 was very similar to 9200). 

But I agree with you that 8.1 is the OS that comes between 8 and 10 and isn't just an update to 8. The fact that it's a 3.5GB download or something like that signals that it's more than just a service pack and the build number changed quite a bit during development. Early builds of 8.1 started out in the 93xx range, going into the 94xx range and then eventually 9600. Windows 7 SP1 is build 7601, Windows 7 RTM is 7600, Vista SP2 6002, Vista SP1 6001, Vista RTM 6000, they just tended to add 1 to the build number for a service pack (for the last few major releases of Windows anyway) but here they jumped from 9200 to 9600.

We're probably overthinking all of this anyway. To keep it simple, we can suggest that 8.1 *is* basically 'Windows 9', but proving it is hard (and probably not worth our time if we believe it to be true anyway ).


----------



## hirobo2

WhoX said:


> Some sites reported the reason why Windows 10 was not named Windows 9 was because of Windows 95 legacy code.



Who the heck runs Windows 95/98 in 2015?  This is what they want you to believe.  Look up the word "profane".


----------



## hirobo2

spirit said:


> If you look online you'll find lots of different reasons, including the reason they gave in the keynote on September 30th 2014 which was along the lines of (going from my memory here):
> 
> 
> 
> They said something like that.
> 
> I don't think anybody has a solid reason why it's called Windows 10. I guess it might be because 8.1 is more like a separate release in its own right than a service pack to 8.
> 
> 
> I think you'll find that those are just handy coincidences. That's not solid evidence that 8.1 *is* Windows 9 at all.
> 
> I guess the closest thing you could perhaps argue is that Windows 8.1's build number is 9600 which could perhaps, maybe, possibly suggest that it should be called 'Windows 9'. But remember that the build number for 8 was 9200, with all of the 8xxx builds (and 78xx and 79xx builds) being betas of Windows 8. They went from the final beta build of 8 being Build 8888 to the final release version of 8 being 9200 (8888 was very similar to 9200).
> 
> But I agree with you that 8.1 is the OS that comes between 8 and 10 and isn't just an update to 8. The fact that it's a 3.5GB download or something like that signals that it's more than just a service pack and the build number changed quite a bit during development. Early builds of 8.1 started out in the 93xx range, going into the 94xx range and then eventually 9600. Windows 7 SP1 is build 7601, Windows 7 RTM is 7600, Vista SP2 6002, Vista SP1 6001, Vista RTM 6000, they just tended to add 1 to the build number for a service pack (for the last few major releases of Windows anyway) but here they jumped from 9200 to 9600.
> 
> We're probably overthinking all of this anyway. To keep it simple, we can suggest that 8.1 *is* basically 'Windows 9', but proving it is hard (and probably not worth our time if we believe it to be true anyway ).



Same to you.  Look up the word "profane".


----------



## spirit

hirobo2 said:


> Same to you.  Look up the word "profane".



Can't believe you're taking this so seriously lol. It's called Windows 10 - let's just accept it, right? Microsoft has usually had funny naming conventions.


----------



## WhoX

hirobo2 said:


> Who the heck runs Windows 95/98 in 2015?  This is what they want you to believe.  Look up the word "profane".



Actually the concern was not about who's running Windows 95, but about applications that were written using the legacy code mentioned. From what I read some companies have invested in applications that are not compatible with modern operating systems. Why should they upgrade? If the app is secure and still works then why change. 



> APIs. Such code is highly useful. It’s the pre-existing software that lets a developer create an application without having to write new code for opening a file, or the mechanism that lets users, say, take data from an Excel spreadsheet and dump it into a Word document. APIs are everywhere, and are critical to the functioning of the connected world. The problem with the collection of core Microsoft APIs known as Windows API is one of age....Microsoft can’t end the use of those older APIs without cutting off support for users of older software programs....For example, a Win NT 3.5 app that was purchased in 1995 will still run on a Windows 7 machine, said Jeff Schmidt, a former Microsoft security team member, who is currently CEO of consultancy JAS Global Advisors LLC. But this means that legacy code is present in the modern operating system and securing these legacy layers after the fact is difficult.



There are a large number of 9x legacy applications that work on Windows XP. How many companies are still using XP and paying Microsoft for updates? Quite a few. 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a14980/still-using-windows-xp/


----------



## Punk

If microsoft was so much in Numerology don't you think that their build numbers would also indicate something?


----------



## spirit

Moving on back to meaningful discussion, I heard that 10134 is set to be the next build for the Fast Ring, but I don't think any new builds from now will really have any new features (just bug fixes really) and I think the rate at which builds are being released will get slower as we get closer towards to July 29th, release date. :good:


----------



## hirobo2

WhoX said:


> Actually the concern was not about who's running Windows 95, but about applications that were written using the legacy code mentioned. From what I read some companies have invested in applications that are not compatible with modern operating systems. Why should they upgrade? If the app is secure and still works then why change.
> 
> 
> 
> There are a large number of 9x legacy applications that work on Windows XP. How many companies are still using XP and paying Microsoft for updates? Quite a few.
> 
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a14980/still-using-windows-xp/



Let me ask you this question, what kind of sane person/organization wants to upgrade to W10 just to run programs designed for Win95/98?!?!  Why don't they just stick with whatever OS they're on right now?!?!


----------



## hirobo2

Punk said:


> If microsoft was so much in Numerology don't you think that their build numbers would also indicate something?



Like I said, you usually say Windows 8.1 U1 Build xxxx.  You can't add this, it just doesn't make sense mathematically:  8+1+U+1+B+U+I+L+D+1+2+3+4!

Even if it's written 8.1.9600, you can't add 8+1+9+6+0+0.  There is no mathematical number in the world that contains more than 1 decimal point!


----------



## Punk

hirobo2 said:


> Like I said, you usually say Windows 8.1 U1 Build xxxx.  You can't add this, it just doesn't make sense mathematically:  8+1+U+1+B+U+I+L+D+1+2+3+4!
> 
> Even if it's written 8.1.9600, you can't add 8+1+9+6+0+0.  There is no mathematical number in the world that contains more than 1 decimal point!



This sounds as true as the illuminati devils in music. Quite a good laugh, thanks for it


----------



## silv55

Hi guys; i just found this, the way things will be processed to upgrade to win 10 RTP from a free upgrade of win7,8.


http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/i...4-45f4b7ed2fb9


----------



## johnb35

silv55 said:


> Hi guys; i just found this, the way things will be processed to upgrade to win 10 RTP from a free upgrade of win7,8.
> 
> 
> http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/i...4-45f4b7ed2fb9



Link doesn't work.


----------



## hirobo2

Punk said:


> This sounds as true as the illuminati devils in music. Quite a good laugh, thanks for it



Illuminati?  What is an "Illuminati"?  Just to let y'all know, there is an entire chapter in the Bible dedicated to numbers (ie. mathematics).  

Once again, I highly urge you to look up the word "profane".


----------



## silv55

johnb35 said:


> Link doesn't work.



try this one 



http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...ndows-10/5c0b9368-a9e8-4238-b1e4-45f4b7ed2fb9


----------



## WhoX

This was interesting.



> Which features will be removed when I upgrade from a previous version of Windows?
> 
> Windows Media Center
> DVD playback
> Desktop gadgets
> Preinstalled games
> Floppy drive support
> Windows Live Essentials (Windows Essentials)
> Windows Updates
> Windows Virtual PC with Windows XP Mode
> 
> Is Media Center supported in Windows 10?
> 
> No. Persons who need to use Media Center should consider carefully before upgrading from their previous version of Windows. The Windows 10 upgrade will automatically remove any installations of Media Center.
> 
> So what are the alternatives if I need Media Center?
> 
> Your best option is to continue running your existing version of Windows with Media Center.



Although they did go on to say that Windows 10 does have a free DVD playback app.


----------



## Okedokey

Punk said:


> If microsoft was so much in Numerology don't you think that their build numbers would also indicate something?



Exactly. 

A good reason why 9 was avoided?

If legacy applications wanted to determine the version, well it could cause problems:

if(version.StartsWith("Windows 9"))
{ /* 95 and 98 */
} else {


simply a pragmatic solution, not numerology.


----------



## hirobo2

Okedokey said:


> Exactly.
> 
> A good reason why 9 was avoided?
> 
> If legacy applications wanted to determine the version, well it could cause problems:
> 
> if(version.StartsWith("Windows 9"))
> { /* 95 and 98 */
> } else {
> 
> 
> simply a pragmatic solution, not numerology.



Come again?  People are going to install programs with that block of code...  in W10 in 2015?


----------



## Okedokey

Many legacy applications will seek to determine if older OS is installed, thus a check for compatibility.  Many many many out there, from drivers to crappy bloatware.  Big pain for MS that doesn't need fixing if you call it 10.


----------



## hirobo2

Okedokey said:


> Many legacy applications will seek to determine if older OS is installed, thus a check for compatibility.  Many many many out there, from drivers to crappy bloatware.  Big pain for MS that doesn't need fixing if you call it 10.



Many legacy programs don't need expensive new hardware to run (eBay) let alone the newest operating system (W10).


----------



## Okedokey

hirobo2 said:


> Many legacy programs don't need expensive new hardware to run (eBay) let alone the newest operating system (W10).



Completely beside the point.


----------



## Punk

hirobo2 said:


> Illuminati?  What is an "Illuminati"?  Just to let y'all know, there is an entire chapter in the Bible dedicated to numbers (ie. mathematics).
> 
> Once again, I highly urge you to look up the word "profane".



Why do you have to bring this back to religion? And if you want info on Illuminati look for it, like you're telling us to look for profane (which we know what it means).


----------



## silv55

WhoX said:


> This was interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Although they did go on to say that Windows 10 does have a free DVD playback app.



That's why i'm going to download Win 7 from an ISO on another HDD  than upgrade to win 10 RTM and checkout and see if i have any benefits with  Win10 Vs Win7, if i don't see anything better then Win 7, just swap HDD with the original Win7 HDD.


----------



## spirit

Good news guys, for all worried about legacy software compatibility, it has been confirmed by Gabriel Aul from Microsoft themselves that even Office 95 works in Windows 10: https://twitter.com/GabeAul/status/606255205198495744 we can all sleep again at night now! *phew* :good: 

...actually I'm more interested in the fact he's using build 10136 than I am about Office 95 working. WZor (renowned Russian hacker/beta leaker group, and the source of practically all of the leaked Windows 10 builds so far) have speculated that 10136 will likely be the next build on the slow ring: https://twitter.com/WZorNET/status/606523715673853953


----------



## Darren

As somebody that knows very little about 10, has some experience with 8.1, and primarily uses 7, what should I expect from 10?


----------



## spirit

Darren said:


> As somebody that knows very little about 10, has some experience with 8.1, and primarily uses 7, what should I expect from 10?



An OS that looks a bit like 8.1 and has the Metro apps etc but functions a little more like 7 did. 

If you want to find out just download the Insider Preview and install it in in VitualBox or VMware or something: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/preview-iso


----------



## Darren

spirit said:


> An OS that looks a bit like 8.1 and has the Metro apps etc but functions a little more like 7 did.
> 
> If you want to find out just download the Insider Preview and install it in in VitualBox or VMware or something: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/preview-iso



I should do that. Or even install the dev version on my laptop.


----------



## spirit

Darren said:


> I should do that. Or even install the dev version on my laptop.



Hmm I'd stick to the VM until RTM is here. :good:


----------



## RisingSun

I have a message in my Windows 7 taskbar offering a free upgrade to Win 10. Should I upgrade? I kind of like Win 7.


----------



## johnb35

RisingSun said:


> I have a message in my Windows 7 taskbar offering a free upgrade to Win 10. Should I upgrade? I kind of like Win 7.



Its not available yet, not until July 29th.  If you enable the update now, it will automatically update on July 29th.


----------



## HackSpoon

I heard that Microsoft announced that Win10 will be they're last OS.


----------



## voyagerfan99

HackSpoon said:


> I heard that Microsoft announced that Win10 will be they're last OS.



Next time try saving me 10 seconds of Google searching and provide a source.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/08/microsoft-windows-10-last-windows/


----------



## HackSpoon

Sorry mate.


----------



## spirit

So Builds 10130 and 10135 (leaked) are working well in VMware but not so well on actual hardware for me. These builds can't be installed on Surface 3 tablets due to some driver issues and they don't work too great on my ThinkPad either, also due to some driver and stability issues. Build 10130 gave me some instabilities on my ThinkPad and some driver installations crashed. 

However, 10074 works fine on the Surface 3s and my ThinkPad, so I think I'll be using 10074 on my ThinkPad until RTM comes out or until Microsoft releases another slow ring build before RTM (which I think is probably unlikely, but I could be wrong). 10074 is still the latest slow ring build and probably the most stable build of 10 that I have used to date.


----------



## StrangleHold

Don't know how they will name it anymore. Would be to confusing to do like 10.1/ 10.2 and so on with updates. Ends up with 10.799 and so on. They might do like Apple and start adding a second name. Windows 10 Tiger or Windows 10 Pacific or Windows 10 This is Starting to Suck, as in Windows 10 STS, lol


----------



## Okedokey

I think they'll just update it continuously as service packs and go for a subscription model.


----------



## Punk

Okedokey said:


> I think they'll just update it continuously as service packs and go for a subscription model.



It will be the downfall of Windows, I don't think they're that stupid.


----------



## spirit

Turns out 10130 is now the latest slow ring build. I assume some bugs have been ironed out since 10130 came out onto the fast ring a week or two ago but I think I'll keep 10074 on my ThinkPad for the time being just because 10130 didn't work too great on it!


----------



## Okedokey

Punk said:


> It will be the downfall of Windows, I don't think they're that stupid.



Why?  Getting $60 from all users annually (like office 365) is got to be better than no money from millions of XP users in over a decade.


----------



## Shane

Okedokey said:


> Why?  Getting $60 from all users annually (like office 365) is got to be better than no money from millions of XP users in over a decade.



Would you be happy paying $60 annually though?..personally i wouldn't.

I just want to buy it and be done..no subscription crap.


----------



## johnb35

Shane said:


> Would you be happy paying $60 annually though?..personally i wouldn't.
> 
> I just want to buy it and be done..no subscription crap.



Agreed.  I don't see many people paying an annual fee to use windows. I know I wouldn't.


----------



## Okedokey

Im not saying you would, but the business model makes sense for MS.


----------



## beers

Okedokey said:


> Why?  Getting $60 from all users annually (like office 365) is got to be better than no money from millions of XP users in over a decade.



$60 would be a bit steep, a lot of people 'invested' ~$100 for Windows 7 and similar for the last 6 years or so, the negative reaction would be pretty huge charging much more than $20/yr or similar.

I'm hoping there's a pretty big push on the Linux side over the next few years if their subscription model is really the case.


----------



## Geoff

This is very similar to what Adobe did with their Creative Suite products.  They found that many users were content with running several versions behind on their Creative Application Suite, instead of upgrading for every release.  This means people who used it for long periods of time, no longer got to pay a flat rate at the start, but rather had to pay monthly.  There was huge backlash on this, but from what I've seen people have slowly accepted it.

I agree with Oke on this.  Many people tend to run outdated versions of Windows for years because they either don't want to pay to upgrade, or the environment doesn't allow for simple upgrades.  If Windows moves more to an Adobe-based solution, where you have one version simply called Adobe CC, and that version gets updated several times a year with new features, people will all be on the latest version.


----------



## spirit

Geoff said:


> This is very similar to what Adobe did with their Creative Suite products.  They found that many users were content with running several versions behind on their Creative Application Suite, instead of upgrading for every release.  This means people who used it for long periods of time, no longer got to pay a flat rate at the start, but rather had to pay monthly.  There was huge backlash on this, but from what I've seen people have slowly accepted it.
> 
> I agree with Oke on this.  Many people tend to run outdated versions of Windows for years because they either don't want to pay to upgrade, or the environment doesn't allow for simple upgrades.  If Windows moves more to an Adobe-based solution, where you have one version simply called Adobe CC, and that version gets updated several times a year with new features, people will all be on the latest version.


Yup I pay for my CC subscription. I upgraded from CS5.5 (released in 2010 but updated a bit in 2011) to CC 2014 last year for £190 for the first year and I'm due to pay them about £300 for the following years on the educational plan. I'm happy paying that because I use the suite all the time at home and school so it is definitely worth it. I pay for the Complete edition of the suite, which is the equivalent of what the old Master Collection suites used to be. The Master Collection suites used to retail for around £4,000-£5,000, so assuming you pay the full £500/year price for your CC Complete plan, it would take you between 8-10 years to pay the price of one Master Collection suite in CC subscriptions whilst always having the latest version of the software (and Adobe's software tends to move on quite fast!) In 8-10 years there could be 4 or 5 versions of the suite released, so you'd be a long way behind! It was nice being able to just upgrade from Lightroom 5 to 6 without worrying about paying or anything and I'll be renewing my subscription in a month or so. There was indeed a lot of negative propaganda thrown about when Adobe went to the subscription model about how it was a 'rip off' (not if you ask me for the reasons above!) and how you 'always had to be online' (again, not true, tried and tested by me!) but people took a while to adapt to the new payment model.

Adobe's subscription model has opened up a new customer base for them - people like me who could never afford to drop £4,000-£5,000 on software (only for it to be outdated in a year or two anyway) can now afford their products because I can happily pay £190 or £300 per year for them and still have always have the latest version. Their 60% student discount is a really good offering for students. We are the kind of people who would have just cracked the software before but are now happy to pay for it because it has become affordable. 

It's the same for Office 365 too. Yes, my copy of 365 Pro Plus is free from school - I'm very fortunate, but we're seeing lots of businesses buying 365 licenses rather than retail Office licenses because of the benefits 365 brings and the fact businesses can keep up to date with the software. I wouldn't be surprised if the upcoming Office 2016 is either 365 only or the final version of Office you can buy as a retail product.

So would I pay for Windows on a subscription basis? I'm not sure if Windows 10 will turn into a subscription product, but I wouldn't mind if it guaranteed I was always on the latest version and it wasn't too expensive.


----------



## Geoff

spirit said:


> Yup I pay for my CC subscription. I upgraded from CS5.5 (released in 2010 but updated a bit in 2011) to CC 2014 last year for £190 for the first year and I'm due to pay them about £300 for the following years on the educational plan. I'm happy paying that because I use the suite all the time at home and school so it is definitely worth it. I pay for the Complete edition of the suite, which is the equivalent of what the old Master Collection suites used to be. The Master Collection suites used to retail for around £4,000-£5,000, so assuming you pay the full £500/year price for your CC Complete plan, it would take you between 8-10 years to pay the price of one Master Collection suite in CC subscriptions whilst always having the latest version of the software (and Adobe's software tends to move on quite fast!) In 8-10 years there could be 4 or 5 versions of the suite released, so you'd be a long way behind! It was nice being able to just upgrade from Lightroom 5 to 6 without worrying about paying or anything and I'll be renewing my subscription in a month or so. There was indeed a lot of negative propaganda thrown about when Adobe went to the subscription model about how it was a 'rip off' (not if you ask me for the reasons above!) and how you 'always had to be online' (again, not true, tried and tested by me!) but people took a while to adapt to the new payment model.
> 
> Adobe's subscription model has opened up a new customer base for them - people like me who could never afford to drop £4,000-£5,000 on software (only for it to be outdated in a year or two anyway) can now afford their products because I can happily pay £190 or £300 per year for them and still have always have the latest version. Their 60% student discount is a really good offering for students. We are the kind of people who would have just cracked the software before but are now happy to pay for it because it has become affordable.
> 
> It's the same for Office 365 too. Yes, my copy of 365 Pro Plus is free from school - I'm very fortunate, but we're seeing lots of businesses buying 365 licenses rather than retail Office licenses because of the benefits 365 brings and the fact businesses can keep up to date with the software. I wouldn't be surprised if the upcoming Office 2016 is either 365 only or the final version of Office you can buy as a retail product.
> 
> So would I pay for Windows on a subscription basis? I'm not sure if Windows 10 will turn into a subscription product, but I wouldn't mind if it guaranteed I was always on the latest version and it wasn't too expensive.


You are comparing the education pricing with the full retail cost of CS, you could purchase CS6 with education pricing for a HUGE discount, so it wouldn't take 8-10 years to pay that off.

For Windows, it would have to be reasonable.  Windows 7 was around $150 I believe, so you wouldn't be able to really charge more than say $25/year.  Plus with Apple giving away their OS for free every year, Microsoft will have more competition.  Or, everyone will stick with Windows 7/8 for 10+ years.


----------



## WhoX

There are eight software titles I use regularly. If all of those companies decided to charge annual fees, that could get pretty expensive. Some of those I skip two or three versions before I purchase an update, and a couple of them only one purchase was enough.


----------



## Punk

Annual fee feels like renting, not owning. I don't want to pay a subscription, I want a licence. I went from XP to 8.1, I did not need Vista or Seven, hence I saved 200$ I wouldn't have if I had a subscription.

Subscritpion are just a way for the seller to ensure an income of money. Yes it's a little less than if you're buying all the releases from Microsoft (or other brands) but in the end you're still giving them money each month. That's not a good deal to me.


----------



## Geoff

Punk said:


> Annual fee feels like renting, not owning. I don't want to pay a subscription, I want a licence. I went from XP to 8.1, I did not need Vista or Seven, hence I saved 200$ I wouldn't have if I had a subscription.
> 
> Subscritpion are just a way for the seller to ensure an income of money. Yes it's a little less than if you're buying all the releases from Microsoft (or other brands) but in the end you're still giving them money each month. That's not a good deal to me.


Exactly, subscription models are all about the developer/company.  Microsoft is smart, they know people will be on Windows 7 for 10+ years.  To keep money coming in, charging a subscription, even very low, would make a huge difference to them.

For us though, it sucks.  I'd much rather pay $100 up front than $25/year.  It's like bills and loans, I'd rather have them paid off then know I have these yearly or monthly fees due.


----------



## johnb35

Say for instance, they bring out a new OS every 3 years.  That new OS costs say $109 for OEM, which is the going price for windows 10 on newegg.  Since they are wanting people to upgrade to 10 and if they are going to charge a yearly fee then I wouldn't pay more then $40 a year.   But if they truly are gonna charge a yearly/monthly fee then most people won't upgrade from their current OS.  Most people won't have the money to keep throwing to MS.  MS is becoming Big Brother now.


----------



## beers

Eh, with end of support being in 2023 for Windows 8/8.1 we have some time to see how it pans out.  Probably will be the last MS OS I own though depending on future developments and how hard the open-source community ends up pushing performance


----------



## spirit

Geoff said:


> You are comparing the education pricing with the full retail cost of CS, you could purchase CS6 with education pricing for a HUGE discount, so it wouldn't take 8-10 years to pay that off.
> 
> For Windows, it would have to be reasonable.  Windows 7 was around $150 I believe, so you wouldn't be able to really charge more than say $25/year.  Plus with Apple giving away their OS for free every year, Microsoft will have more competition.  Or, everyone will stick with Windows 7/8 for 10+ years.



No I'm not and I even said 'if you paid the full price' but I did get the full price of CC slightly wrong. CC Complete full retail price is about £550/year (£50 more than I thought). CS6 Master full retail was about £4,000. £4,000/£550 = 7.2, so that's just over 7 years to pay the cost of what one licence for CS6 Master would have cost you new in 2012. And even you got CS6 Master for say £3,000, that's still 5.45 years to pay the cost.

The education pricing for CC is what I pay: £190 for the first year, £273 (or so, including 20% VAT, £219 excluding the VAT) for the subsequent years.

Though granted the best deal is to actually get the Complete plan since the single app plans are fairly expensive. In the case of Microsoft and Windows it would probably be harder to charge 'more for less' like Adobe is doing. I can see Windows going down the subscription route though. Maybe not now, but down the line. However, I can see how that might be hard now that they're giving Windows 10 away for free to use indefinitely to 7 and 8.1 users on the device they upgrade from (if you upgrade within the first year of 10 being on sale, I guess after that they could make you pay if you needed to reinstall).


----------



## Okedokey

They just want to get everyone up to the latest version, like apple, deal with one(ish) environment....  windows (X)  everyone on the same platform give or take then go from there.


----------



## Geoff

spirit said:


> No I'm not and I even said 'if you paid the full price' but I did get the full price of CC slightly wrong. CC Complete full retail price is about £550/year (£50 more than I thought). CS6 Master full retail was about £4,000. £4,000/£550 = 7.2, so that's just over 7 years to pay the cost of what one licence for CS6 Master would have cost you new in 2012. And even you got CS6 Master for say £3,000, that's still 5.45 years to pay the cost.
> 
> The education pricing for CC is what I pay: £190 for the first year, £273 (or so, including 20% VAT, £219 excluding the VAT) for the subsequent years.
> 
> Though granted the best deal is to actually get the Complete plan since the single app plans are fairly expensive. In the case of Microsoft and Windows it would probably be harder to charge 'more for less' like Adobe is doing. I can see Windows going down the subscription route though. Maybe not now, but down the line. However, I can see how that might be hard now that they're giving Windows 10 away for free to use indefinitely to 7 and 8.1 users on the device they upgrade from (if you upgrade within the first year of 10 being on sale, I guess after that they could make you pay if you needed to reinstall).


CS6 is $349 when you look at educating pricing, that was my point, not comparing it to the $5,000 retail cost.


----------



## C4C

Okedokey said:


> They just want to get everyone up to the latest version, like apple, deal with one(ish) environment....  windows (X)  everyone on the same platform give or take then go from there.



I was in the middle of my college math placement (initial not the actual one) testing when my computer decided to restart. Now I've been waiting for 25 mins and it's only at 30%.

Can't wait for the release so I don't have to deal with these stupid installs...


----------



## spirit

My ThinkPad was automatically upgraded from 10074 to 10130 last night by Windows Update. Was a bit weary of this because 10130 didn't work too well on it before, but it seems to be working OK now.


----------



## Okedokey

^ Ditto


----------



## johnb35

So from what I'm seeing online now is that even users of Windows 10 technical preview can get the full OS for free.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyl...ryone/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix

http://www.zdnet.com/article/with-a...indows-10-to-anyone-who-asks/#ftag=YHFb1d24ec

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/windows-10-free-running-windows-7-xp-225125830.html


----------



## voyagerfan99

Well that's not new news. There was already word that people that ran cracked copies of 7 or 8 could also get Win 10 for free.


----------



## johnb35

voyagerfan99 said:


> There was already word that people that ran cracked copies of 7 or 8 could also get Win 10 for free.



Thats not what I'm talking about though.  I'm talking about people who install the technical preview and get the full free OS on July 29th without having a valid license for a previous OS.  Even XP and Vista users can install the technical preview and get it for free.


----------



## Okedokey

That just further proves my point.  Get everyone to the same OS, then start charging.


----------



## voyagerfan99

And being typical Microsoft, beta testers will no longer be able to upgrade to the final release for free.


----------



## WhoX

Microsoft:



> Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers,” explained Microsoft in its full statement to the Verge.



Forbes:



> Microsoft has already stated that anyone who upgrades from Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 to Windows 10 within a year of its release will get the new platform for “free”. If this were applied to any previous version of Windows that would mean “free for as long as I use it”.
> 
> But now it is becoming increasingly clear that under the new vision of an all encompassing ‘Windows as a service’ this will not and cannot be the case.





> So how will Microsoft decide where to draw the line with ‘free’? It is highly unlikely that those who move to Windows 10 within the first year will not be charged for a Windows update, upgrade or major new feature ever again.





> In a rapidly moving world it is no longer good enough to work on a major operating system release every 3 to 5 years, push it as a big upgrade which causes upheaval to install and issue Service Packs once a year. The future is evolutionary, ongoing updates where the monetary value cannot be equated to a one-off payment.
> 
> In short the last thing Microsoft wants is another Windows XP situation where a single payment at its launch in 2001 resulted in 13 years of free development and tech support followed by customer scorn when it eventually called time. Endless warranties do not make for a practical business model – especially for software which has been pirated time and time again.





> ...it won’t be possible for customers to pressurise Microsoft to go back. Last month Mark Russinovich, CTO of Microsoft’s Azure Cloud platform, admitted the future of Windows could be as open source software. Which ultimately means Microsoft has given more consideration to giving Windows away in future than it has to continuing the existing model.
> 
> “Like I said, it’s a new Microsoft” explained Russinovich when pushed on the company’s increasingly clear desire to split from its past.




To sum it all up...how often and how much am I going to be charged?


----------



## Okedokey

No to sum it up, Windows is not a right.


----------



## spirit

johnb35 said:


> So from what I'm seeing online now is that even users of Windows 10 technical preview can get the full OS for free.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyl...ryone/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix
> 
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/with-a...indows-10-to-anyone-who-asks/#ftag=YHFb1d24ec
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/windows-10-free-running-windows-7-xp-225125830.html



Yes that's true but if you ever have to reinstall you'll need to either buy a licence for 10 or install 7 or 8.1 and upgrade via the free upgrade option (providing you do that within the first year of 10 being on sale because after July 29th 2016 that free upgrade offer goes and your only option left is to buy it).

I've got my hands on 10147 now (latest leak). Got it running in VMware. Seems stable and very similar to Build 10130, only major differences being that you can set Cortana up during Windows installation and Project Spartan branding has been replaced with Edge branding (new icon too). There's a minor bug with trying to run some apps as an Administrator, apparently. Other than that, stable. It also happens to be the first beta/preview build of Windows 10 that requires you to input a product key (but you can skip it). The key Microsoft provided for 10074 and later does not work. 

I reckon RTM will be Build 10200.


----------



## johnb35

New flow chart on who gets the free upgrade.

http://lifehacker.com/find-out-if-you-get-a-free-upgrade-to-windows-10-with-t-1713466323







I see they are no longer gonna give it free to people with non genuine OS's.


----------



## Punk

Ok that's still good for me. I should be building a new PC this summer so I'll just buy seven and upgrade to 10 for free. (or get 8.1 and stay with it...)


----------



## spirit

Punk said:


> Ok that's still good for me. I should be building a new PC this summer so I'll just buy seven and upgrade to 10 for free. (or get 8.1 and stay with it...)



Why would you buy 7 or 8.1 when you could just buy Windows 10? That way if you need to reinstall your PC you won't need to pay again to install 10 because you'll already own it. Remember that the free upgrade from 7 and 8.1 to 10 is only available for the first year, after that if you want to install Windows 10 you'll need to buy it. 

It would be so much quicker to just buy 10 and install it than buy 7 or 8.1, install it, download and install all of the Windows Updates and then download and install 10, then download and install all of your software. Then if you ever need to reinstall 10 after the first year of 10 being on sale you'll be stuck with 7 or 8.1 unless you buy 10.


----------



## Geoff

Punk said:


> Ok that's still good for me. I should be building a new PC this summer so I'll just buy seven and upgrade to 10 for free. (or get 8.1 and stay with it...)


Windows 7 is more expensive, why would you buy that if you will upgrade anyways?  If you don't, after a year it will cost you more.


----------



## strollin

spirit said:


> ...  Then if you ever need to reinstall 10 after the first year of 10 being on sale you'll be stuck with 7 or 8.1 unless you buy 10.


If he creates a system image of the mach9ne after the Win 10 upgrade, he wouldn't need to re-install, just restore the image.  Regardless, MS has said you will be able to have a Win 10 ISO to re-install with.  You won't need to buy Win 10 EVER if you upgrade within the 1st year.


----------



## spirit

strollin said:


> If he creates a system image of the mach9ne after the Win 10 upgrade, he wouldn't need to re-install, just restore the image.  Regardless, MS has said you will be able to have a Win 10 ISO to re-install with.  You won't need to buy Win 10 EVER if you upgrade within the 1st year.



Oh right fair enough. Didn't know that.

But it still makes sense to just buy 10 rather than mess around with 7 or 8.1 and then upgrade if you can't upgrade in the first year.


----------



## strollin

spirit said:


> Oh right fair enough. Didn't know that.
> 
> But it still makes sense to just buy 10 rather than mess around with 7 or 8.1 and then upgrade if you can't upgrade in the first year.


Definitely.  If you're going to buy a version of Windows, it may as well be Win 10.


----------



## spirit

I'm liking the new login screen in Builds 10159 and later! I think the login screen background image is the same as your desktop background image.


----------



## spirit

I upgraded my ThinkPad from 10130 to 10162 yesterday. I didn't download it from Windows Update, I just installed 10162 from the official Microsoft ISO and did an upgrade install. Seemed to go smoothly and 10162 seems to be running well on the ThinkPad! The only problem was some touchpad driver issues which meant I couldn't right click, but Windows automatically updated my Synaptics Pointing Device driver for me and it worked after that. 

Looks like Microsoft has started compiling RTM candidate builds now, with 10176 being the latest compiled build according to Beta Archive: http://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34535 (their source is BuildFeed: https://buildfeed.net/)


----------



## ninjabubbles3

Its not the same. I have a different background.

Also, looks like im ponying up 100 bucks for my license


----------



## C4C

ninjabubbles3 said:


> Also, looks like im ponying up 100 bucks for my license



Do you not have Win8 already? 

Anyways, I'm enjoying it so far with the exception of Edge being the browser Battlefield 4 opens in. Frustrates me because I want it to use Pale Moon 

That lockscreen bothers me because it's the windows default even if you change it.


----------



## spirit

10500 is the latest compiled build: https://buildfeed.net/build/5525/ 

Interesting to see that the build numbers have jumped so fast. 10500 is not the final RTM build apparently, but looking at the comments on BuildFeed one guy thinks this is actually a post-RTM build.


----------



## Shane

Just gave windows 10 a try,Nope..don't like it whatsoever. 

Start menu is horrible with its live tiles, I turned most of them off and removed them in the hopes it would give me a slim start menu but it didn't Still you get "Apps" forced down your throat and they're pre-installed like Skype,Camera,Money,News mail client that opens up in an entire full screen like an App..it still feels to me like I'm using a tablet and not a desktop.

Their new web browser is slow too imo, Nowhere near as fast as Chrome.

Just not feeling it at all, Back to custom Windows 8.1 for me.


----------



## strollin

I've been using the W10 Tech Previews since they were first made available and I'm with you Shane, I don't care for the new Start menu.  

W10's Start menu is just plain clunky, IMO and not particularly useful.  I think Cortana is a useless toy and I'm definitely not a fan of the Edge browser as it has lots of gaps to fill before it could compete with more mature browsers like FireFox, Opera or Chrome.

I don't plan to upgrade any of my W7 or W8.1 machines to W10, even for free.  There just isn't anything compelling in W10 to interest me to go thru the bother of upgrading.  I'm sure I'll eventually have machines running W10 but that won't be until I build or buy a new machine.

I chuckle when I read posts in various forums regarding the anticipation of W10 and how people can't wait to dump the horrible W8 for W10.  I run W8.1 on several machines and have absolutely no issues with it so I don't understand why people dislike it so much.


----------



## voyagerfan99

strollin said:


> I chuckle when I read posts in various forums regarding the anticipation of W10 and how people can't wait to dump the horrible W8 for W10.  I run W8.1 on several machines and have absolutely no issues with it so I don't understand why people dislike it so much.



My boss already scheduled me to upgrade him to W10 

I also agree. W10's start menu is gross and clunky. Granted you can still install ClassicShell if you want.

I was against 8 and 8.1 until I wiped my desktop a while back and installed 8.1. Haven't looked back, and even using Windows 7 feels outdated to me.


----------



## spirit

For those complaining about the Start Menu in 10, but seemingly liking Windows 8.1 and its Start Screen, you can also have the Start Screen in Windows 10, you know. Right click desktop -> Personalization -> Start -> Use Start full screen.









Note also there are options to adjust what is shown on the Start Menu in there, Shane. 

Oh look, by unpinning all of the apps from the Start Menu and resizing it a bit, I now have a small and simple Start Menu, a bit like what we now see in the latest Windows Server builds (I got my hands on 10147). It took all of about 20 seconds to unpin the default pinned apps and you can change whether the recently added apps etc are shown on the Start Menu in the settings option shown above. If you ask me, it's quicker and easier to customise a Windows 10 Start Menu than it is a Windows 8 Start Screen!





Below is Windows Server 10147.





Don't like Edge? Then don't use it! I bet you didn't like Internet Explorer either. Continue to use the browser you like using. Nobody is forcing you to use Edge.

As for Cortana I find it really useful having the search bar on the taskbar but you can remove it if it's taking up too much space on the taskbar or if you don't want it there. I know in previous versions of Windows you could have Windows Search on the taskbar (XP) but my god that slowed your PC down as Windows indexed every file. Cortana in Windows 10 is more than the assistant, it's now basically the search functionality of the OS, so whilst perhaps the assistant is 'gimmicky' for some people, the search functionality is very useful. Again, if you don't like the assistant, don't use it. When you first install Windows 10 there is the option to set up the assistant and voice recognition, just skip it. The first time you use the search in 10, you can just click 'not now' to skip setting up Cortana.





This is a free upgrade and it does appear to be a good solid upgrade. Yes, 8.1 is a very good OS and yes 7 was good in its day but it really does feel outdated now, 6 years on, but I really think 10 is going to be a great OS too. You can customise it to fit your needs. I think you'd be daft not to upgrade for *free* especially since it's not a whole lot different to 8.1! I could maybe understand not wanting to upgrade if you had to buy it because it is quite similar to 8.1, but it's free! The things you've pointed out that you don't like you can either not use or customise to suit your needs, so I don't really see what the problem is.


One thing I've noticed that is much improved in Windows 10 from previous versions is fingerprint recognition. Using the fingerprint reader to log into Windows on my ThinkPad when it was running Windows 8.1 was a bit temperamental, sometimes it would work and sometimes it wouldn't, so I rarely bothered. However, in Windows 10 more often than not it works perfectly and on one finger swipe - probably thanks to Windows Hello which is a new feature introduced in 10 that certainly seems to have improved the reliability of the fingerprint reader to me and made it a much more useful feature of my ThinkPad! I think it only doesn't work when I either don't scan my finger properly or scan a finger that isn't registered.


----------



## Troncoso

I know you're a "Worldwide Microsoft Student Ambassador", but you don't have to be so extremely defensive because people say they don't like Windows 10. 

You say "don't use it" for every new Windows 10 feature people don't like. I have to wonder why a person would bother upgrading just to have to go through and change all these settings to make it like older Windows versions... when they could just use those older Windows version. Just because an upgrade is free doesn't mean it's worth actually upgrading to.


----------



## tremmor

I will likely upgrade. Do it now or do it later has always been the way for me. I never did like any new operating system when first installed because its so different. Yes, it was the same with windows 7 pro and XP pro. just takes getting used too and will eventually be forced too. Just another adventure i guess. Then again once i was comfortable with the system like after  two or three months i liked it. This will just be another adventure. again.


----------



## WhoX

I own every version of Windows since 1.0. I will eventually buy, not download, Windows 10 to add to my collection. But will I install it? My love affair with Windows 7 is too strong at the moment. If, over time, Windows 10 gets better looking after drinking from her cup, then maybe I'll slide on over and make my move.


----------



## Geoff

Just installed the latest build in a VM.  Has anyone done a clean install and use it as their primary OS?  Any major issues (gaming specifically)?


----------



## silv55

Shane said:


> Just gave windows 10 a try,Nope..don't like it whatsoever.
> 
> Start menu is horrible with its live tiles, I turned most of them off and removed them in the hopes it would give me a slim start menu but it didn't Still you get "Apps" forced down your throat and they're pre-installed like Skype,Camera,Money,News mail client that opens up in an entire full screen like an App..it still feels to me like I'm using a tablet and not a desktop.
> 
> Their new web browser is slow too imo, Nowhere near as fast as Chrome.
> 
> Just not feeling it at all, Back to custom Windows 8.1 for me.



you don't have to use their web browser, install Google chrome it will work great  on 10, i did try Win 10 till 1040 build and was 5 stars.


----------



## voyagerfan99

silv55 said:


> you don't have to use their web browser



Really? Ya don't say


----------



## WhoX

Microsoft selling Windows 10 on USB flash drives. Pre-orders with the drive already on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-Pro-Flash-Drive/dp/B01019TDJ8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437382236&sr=8-1&keywords=windows+10


----------



## Shane

whox said:


> microsoft selling windows 10 on usb flash drives. Pre-orders with the drive already on amazon.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/microsoft-windows-pro-flash-drive/dp/b01019tdj8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=utf8&qid=1437382236&sr=8-1&keywords=windows+10



$199.99 

And they wonder why people pirate their OS.


----------



## silv55

voyagerfan99 said:


> Really? Ya don't say



Bro i´ll say,and i´ll affirm,all my 7 PC's are on Google Chrome and i love it.
you don't have to be so sarcastic,if you  ask the majority they will agree with me,but i did not say for you to use it,just suggested  it,if you don't want the best that's your choice.


----------



## voyagerfan99

Hey, I use Chrome. I like it good enough. You seem to miss what I was even being sarcastic about.


----------



## voyagerfan99

Well, today is the release date. I just checked my Microsoft Partner Portal to see if Windows 10 was available for download, and it is. Currently downing the Win 10 Enterprise ISO to test on a workstation. My boss is eager to be upgraded and he's already slotted himself for Monday.


----------



## beers

voyagerfan99 said:


> My boss is eager to be upgraded and he's already slotted himself for Monday.



Because more numbers are better, right?


----------



## Troncoso

My work laptop is upgraded. I was going to play around with it... but it doesn't really feel like there is much to play around with.

Still waiting for my work PC notification.


----------



## Geoff

I'm hoping my home PC has it when I get back, but all the talk about it possibly being several weeks to reach most customers is a pain.


----------



## Troncoso

I followed this and got my work PC upgrading.

If you get an error, it's probably because your missing this part:



> make sure your system is set to receive and install Windows Updates automatically



Which turns out to be necessary.


----------



## Darren

I'm currently prepping for the install. Got everything I want transferred to my external HDD and am currently updating 7 since I had to disable automatic updates a while back. Once it's prepped I'll force the update if it's not available immediately. Probably going to do the upgrade initially and make sure it works okay before wiping and doing a clean install. My install of 7 has a couple quirks and it's about time for another clean install anyway. If 10 outright sucks, I'll probably wipe to a fresh 7 anyway and upgrade a bit later once everything is ironed out.

Been doing some reading of reviews and features and I like what I've been hearing. I hope it's good. One friend reported that all of his games are now unplayable on an i7 and 970 setup. (edit: fixed with driver update)

I've been using 7 for almost 4 years now, and before that it was XP for like... ever. I'm ready to get up to date. I still am fairly newby feeling with 8.1 on my laptop since I don't use it for much. Hopefully 10 is easy to pick up.

You can use this tool to start the update immediately or create boot media.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10


----------



## Origin Saint

Does anyone on here have a day's worth of experience with it yet really?  I game fairly heavy and need my laptop for college, so I'm hesitant to upgrade so soon, but I really want that Xbox One streaming feature.


----------



## Laquer Head

Been running on Win 10 pro now since midnight. mostly all smooth. I think cortana is useless but overall a positive day 1


----------



## beers

Upgraded mine for the 'lolz', seemed to take forever at 'preparing install'.  Other than that seems to have most of the same crap from 8.1 with some useless extras.  Also, my OpenVPN client mysteriously broke.  Probably will do a fresh installation after upgrading to get the 'complete experience' 



Laquer Head said:


> Been running on Win 10 pro now since midnight. mostly all smooth. I think cortana is useless but overall a positive day 1



Totally read that in the voice of your avatar


----------



## Laquer Head

beers said:


> Totally read that in the voice of your avatar



bwaha

please do not bang your head on the display case,.... thank you


----------



## WhoX

Don't know if it's been posted yet, but here is the official link for the tool to download the ISO or perform an immediate update.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10


----------



## Darren

Well the upgrade process from 7 to 10 was almost completely painless. Took a while to download and install, but no hangups and once it got going all was fine. Been having a bit of an issue with my WiFi adapter, but I think that's the adapter's fault. 

Initial impressions just have me thinking "damn this is quick." I'm coming from 7, but this OS feels so much smoother and quicker. I like the dark aesthetic, although icons are a bit too small. I'm about to test some games right now after installing the AMD driver. If games work okay I'll go ahead with a clean install. So many things feel "right", coming from a 7 user with little 8.1 use, this is good.

GTA runs like butter still. Didn't do a side by side, but I might have gained a few frames too.
Skyrim runs beautifully as well. I had several mods installed, both via Nexus Mod Manager and Steam Workshop. Didn't touch a thing outside of the upgrade and they all worked fine. 
Terraria is also fine. Very demanding game. I'm impressed. 

Switching between Windows is amazingly quick. The traditional ALT+TAB still works in the usual way but WIN+TAB will bring up all your open windows and lets you switch between as well as making a whole separate desktop. 

I guess I don't need to keep rattling off features and stuff since this has been widely available for a while. I'm very impressed with this though.

Creating a bootable flash drive takes a good amount of time. You also have to redownload the data files for it, which is annoying.


----------



## johnnyb58

I got my icon to install Win 10 this morning, but I’m a little afraid to install at the moment. 

I’m using Win7 and love it so I want to be sure it’s what I want. I don’t have time to read this whole thread right now and I was wondering if there is a time limit to install this. I want to read some good reviews by people who have been using it for a while before I take the plunge. 

Anyway I have to leave right now, but I’ll check back in the morning.


----------



## johnb35

You don't have to install it now, you have a year to upgrade for free.  After July 29th 2016, then it you will have to buy your own copy.


----------



## StrangleHold

johnnyb58 said:


> I got my icon to install Win 10 this morning, but I’m a little afraid to install at the moment.
> 
> I’m using Win7 and love it so I want to be sure it’s what I want. I don’t have time to read this whole thread right now and I was wondering if there is a time limit to install this. I want to read some good reviews by people who have been using it for a while before I take the plunge.
> 
> Anyway I have to leave right now, but I’ll check back in the morning.



If you don't like it there is a backup/restore to go back to 7 for 30 days.


----------



## WhoX

I upgraded last night. I didn't install any preview version, so this was a plunge into dark waters for me. Did the same thing for Windows 8, ended up crawling back into the Windows 7 boat after a month.

This time I am overwhelmingly surprised. All of the things I thought were mistakes in Windows 8 are gone. From a user perspective, Windows 10 is 99% customizable. I think Microsoft really paid attention to what users were saying when developing Windows 10. Good job!


----------



## johnnyb58

johnb35 said:


> You don't have to install it now, you have a year to upgrade for free.  After July 29th 2016, then it you will have to buy your own copy.



thanks, that should be enough time to see what comes out of this,



StrangleHold said:


> If you don't like it there is a backup/restore to go back to 7 for 30 days.



Oh Thanks I didn't know that


----------



## CrayonMuncher

I've been using the final version (RTM) for for few days now, gave up after the first update stopped the ability to right click on network properties/uninstall anything without crashing explorer, and also not doing what asked. Then more updates were available, which installed, and then completely bricked it.

I've given it another go now, upgrade from home premium, seems to be working ok.

Few odd things tho, during upgrade it said bitlocker was not available and to turn off, which I didnt (unplugged the drive) but it works fine.

Plus they missed a few sentances in the help me decide text, often it's saying about upgrading to windows 8.1 for example it says:

'You'll have to enter your username and password the first time you sign in to Windows after upgrading to Windows 8.1.'

lol


----------



## killershark1978

I'm interested in seeing what kind of numbers of people are still waiting for the upgrade, I'm still getting the "Your part of the largest software upgrade even ever...... and we'll let you know when its ready" screen whenever I click to check the icon in the bottom right corner.

Have had my PC turned on now for 2 days straight waiting to take the upgrade and still nothing, is there a download bar you can see the progression of should the download of started or is it just wait your turn and let them notify you when its ready?

Also is there any way to trigger the update to start jump the que maybe?


----------



## beers

killershark1978 said:


> I'm interested in seeing what kind of numbers of people are still waiting for the upgrade, I'm still getting the "Your part of the largest software upgrade even ever...... and we'll let you know when its ready" screen whenever I click to check the icon in the bottom right corner.
> 
> Have had my PC turned on now for 2 days straight waiting to take the upgrade and still nothing, is there a download bar you can see the progression of should the download of started or is it just wait your turn and let them notify you when its ready?
> 
> Also is there any way to trigger the update to start jump the que maybe?



I had to push Windows Update along in 8.1 before upgrading to 10 was an option.


----------



## voyagerfan99

The upgrades through that little thing that appeared will be rolling out in waves. It's not going to happen right away. If you want it right away you need to use another method.


----------



## killershark1978

beers said:


> I had to push Windows Update along in 8.1 before upgrading to 10 was an option.



I don't seem to have that option, all I get in widows updates is this.







voyagerfan99 said:


> The upgrades through that little thing that appeared will be rolling out in waves. It's not going to happen right away. If you want it right away you need to use another method.



what other methods are available?



killershark1978 said:


> what other methods are available?



Its fine I just answered my own question will post here for anyone who maybe looking for the same answer

Following this link will allow you to manually begin the update.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10


----------



## tremmor

This may be a good reference also about installing if your confused. 
I know i will be doing but not sure when. have to be in the mood.  
http://www.howtogeek.com/224342/how-to-clean-install-windows-10/


----------



## smellsorange

Reporting in: My update failed the first time around last night. All the updates on that laptop were enabled automatically, as annoying as that is with the "random" reboots while watching shows and gaming,etc. 


Trying again now!


----------



## 2string1

*Win 10 Caculator*

How do I get the old win 8.1 calculator on win 10?  Win 10 calculator is to small and I can't even drag it to where I want it on my monitor.


----------



## WhoX

2string1 said:


> How do I get the old win 8.1 calculator on win 10?  Win 10 calculator is to small and I can't even drag it to where I want it on my monitor.



You can resize the calculator to any size you wish, even full screen. You can also drag the calculator to any position on the screen.


----------



## silv55

Hi guys i just did a Win 10 clean install after i had Upgraded on one of my HP laptop and everything was smooth now it looks clean fills clean runs great,
before i had the synaptic pointing device icon on my task bar  and i could never get rid of it despite  hiding it,it kept  coming back on boot, so i will do clean install on all my machines.


----------



## WhoX

Yeah, yesterday I updated the family's laptops and PCs to Windows 10. For now everyone is happy.


----------



## salvage-this

I updated my work desktop and my home desktop.  I like it so far.  

We are looking for the right group policy to disable Wifi Sense on Windows 10.  Still pretty early in the testing process for us in the office.  

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2943...e-in-windows-10-raises-security-concerns.html


----------



## Fitster

Hi.
I have some problems with installing win 10. Everything was ok until i accidentaly swithed off my pc. Have no idea what to do. Thats what i see:


----------



## Jiniix

Here's my experience with Windows 10 so far:

Laptop:
_Intel i7-3610QM, Kingston 2x4GB-1600MHz, Intel HD4000 + AMD HD7970M, Seagate SSHD 500GB_

Desktop:
_AMD Phenom II X6 1055T, 4x2GB-1333MHz, GTX 460 1GB, Samsung HD322HJ_

First off I wanna say: The meta-data collection is real, bro! I consider myself extremely lucky that Cortana and related is disabled and not supported in Denmark, I don't want that 
I made it a point to look through _every_ part that was reachable via the GUI. No command promt etc. During the OOBE I turned off pretty much everything, despite that, everywhere I went, under every rock I turned, there was some setting I could turn off that was basically just data collection.
This coincides well with the fact that it was free *tinfoil hat on*

Now, my laptop has a weird problem. With Windows 7 it will mess up the WiFi driver at reboot and I have to reinstall it. With Windows 8.1 I get a bluescreen while trying to install the AMD driver. I've tried _everything_. I've learned to live with WiFi having to be reinstalled and new WiFi codes put in.
I really hoped Windows 10 could fix this. It couldn't, but I got to feel the intrusive Windows Update first hand, forcing AMD drivers on to the system causing BSODs. I eventually had to do a clean reinstall and just never connect to the internet, in order to actually get it tested.

This weekend I was attending a LAN with 11 people, so I thought it was a good chance to get Windows 10 gaming tested thoroughly with a wide variety of games.
The desktop machine in question is a very basic one, which I like. On Windows 7 it requires two drivers: Chipset and GPU (Internet included in chipset). On Windows 8.1 it just requires GPU.

On the desktop machine I was very happy with the OS. There was basically nothing it could mess up automatically, and it ran fast and smooth.
All the new games ran perfectly, some even better than my mate's Windows 8.1. He could barely tab in and out of H1Z1 without it crashing, while I had no problems.
The only issue I ran in to was Warcraft III. I couldn't update it, as it said I didn't have enough HDD space (120GB free). Made it run as XP SP3 and it was flawless.

I'm really digging the new Start menu, once you've customized it right. I don't understand why we need two Control Panels/Settings though, seems like a stupid idea to me.
And the lack of control over Windows Update is ridiculous. I would be okay with forced security updates for the greater good of all, but its current state is outrageous.
I've only had issues with Razer's software (BSOD all day on Windows 7), and I used a Razer Lycosa to install the machine. When I saw it getting automatically downloaded via Update, I immediately shut down my PC and found a basic Dell keyboard. Even after multiple restarts, it still wanted to install the Razer software. I had to Safe Boot and delete all the files in C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution (which is basically Windows Update HQ) and reboot.
I'm glad to see this still works though, resetting Windows Update the cold way.
I will likely install it on my main system (see signature) in a few weeks. I need to test multi-monitor setups on the LAN PC, since it was crap in Windows 8.1.
Also, you might say "just turn off automatic device driver installation" (which you can do by searching for "device install" and it'll fill in the blanks), but that doesn't stop Windows Update.
That basically stops the machine from looking at Windows Update in the first place. I had it completely turned off on laptop and desktop, yet it still forced drivers via Windows Update.
Some people are reporting that Windows Update would even override their new, freshly installed GPU drivers - I didn't see this at all though.

Something I find interesting, is the fact that you can remove Internet Explorer on 7 and 8.1. Or rather, you can disable it in Windows Features. You can 't do that for Edge, but there's still an option to remove Internet Explorer - which sadly didn't remove Edge 

All in all this is a great OS that just needs a bit of polishing, and then I can just hope that M$ takes their time with Cortana here in Denmark 

Oh and PS: During the LAN I opened an FN Bayonet Tiger Tooth @ €339 

I have a second Samsung HD322HJ unplugged in the machine, installed with a completely identical Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64. I actually installed this for LAN before deciding to try Windows 10, so it just worked as a backup if Windows 10 would fail something - which it didn't.
I will do some straight up comparisons to see if there's a measurable difference between the operating systems on a lower end/older machine. The GTX 460 1GB is one of the oldest cards that'll support DirectX 12 as far as I can tell.
But that's a little in the future, now I need to recuperate from LAN


----------



## WhoX

On my machine Windows 10 "Photos" isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing, opening photos. I've tried just about everything to get it to open a photo in any format.

This is what I get.






This doesn't only happen with .jpg but also with .png too. Of all the files I've tried, the only one "Photos" opens by default is .tiff.

Not to worry though, I've discovered that Google's Picasa has an awesome lightbox (photo viewer) built in. Opens all the photo files on my machine in a very attractive and practical window. Problem solved...for now.


----------



## Darren

I have had zero issues with my desktop since I switched it over. I installed it on my laptop last night and the trackpad was completely useless until I did an uninstall and reinstall of the software/driver for it. Worked fine after that. Haven't played around with it much yet, but I'll probably do a fresh install of it. It appears that you can accomplish the same effect of a clean install by "Reset the PC" and removing all your files. I'll probably do that and see how it goes.


----------



## spirit

Asides from having some issues with NVIDIA drivers and Windows Update (solved by installing Windows 10 offline and installing latest NVIDIA drivers offline) I've had no issues at all. Installed on all three of my PCs (desktop, Surface Pro and ThinkPad L540) and on a custom build I did this week for a client.

The issue with NVIDIA drivers and Windows Update was that Windows Update would detect you had an NVIDIA GPU and start downloading a buggy driver from Windows Update. You then couldn't install the official NVIDIA driver and in my case I was left with no display at all thanks to that buggy driver. So I reinstalled and installed offline, put on the latest NVIDIA driver and Windows Update has left me alone now since the NVIDIA driver I have now is clearly newer than any on Windows Update. That might have been resolved now, that was on release day (July 29th).


----------



## WhoX

For those of you who haven't received Microsoft's DVD Player and would like to try it out, here is the link and install instructions.



> *1.* Download from Windows Update:
> 
> http://download.windowsupdate.com/d..._ceaa55720fcf4dc8d568b7acb4cf9acf27f54f41.cab
> 
> *2.* Make 2 directories, *c:\temp* and *c:\temp2*
> 
> *3. *Extract the *windows10.0-kb3081704-x64.msi* file from downloaded cabinet file into *c:\temp*
> 
> *4. *Open command prompt as admin and type (or copy/paste this):
> 
> *msiexec /a c:\temp\windows10.0-kb3081704-x64.msi /qb TARGETDIR=c:\temp2*
> 
> *5. *Open PowerShell as admin and type (or copy/paste this,_ all one line_):
> 
> *Add-AppxProvisionedPackage -Online -PackagePath c:\temp2\InstallDVDAppxPackage\cd0c0ffe0ee94518833e70b1e931fcff.appxbundle -LicensePath c:\temp2\InstallDVDAppxPackage\cd0c0ffe0ee94518833e70b1e931fcff_License1.xml*




I installed it and took it for a spin. Rumors are that Microsoft is planning on selling the player at a later date, if that's the case then they need to do some serious improvements. The DVD Player is very basic. It lacks any kind of audio or video setup other than close caption and aspect ratio. It also had a hard time accessing some of my DVDs, the same DVDs that open in VLC Player without a glitch.


----------



## spirit

I should have added to my last post that I clean installed with an ISO and product key, I didn't use the free upgrade because I don't like upgrade installations. That might be why I haven't had many issues bar the NVIDIA and Windows Update troubles which I sorted but is an still an issue if you install Windows 10 with an NVIDIA card connected to the internet. Friend of mine was having issues with that today.

@Fitster do you have an NVIDIA card? Sometimes buggy drivers with GPUs can cause this boot error.


----------



## Aastii

I upgraded this morning and so far have zero problems. All drivers went in fine, all programs work fine, I did some gaming and that works perfectly.

The only two things that are annoying me so far are that it turned UAC back on and that snapping a window to one side doors not work as it did in 7


----------



## spirit

Hmmm the snapping works fine for me. You can now snap four windows on each display (one in each corner).


----------



## Punk

Has anyone tried it on a tablet?

My Lenovo has the windows logo since it runs Win 8.1 . I'm still unsure if this is a wise idea to upgrade...


----------



## Troncoso

spirit said:


> Hmmm the snapping works fine for me. You can now snap four windows on each display (one in each corner).



I don't know if he's talking about the same thing that bothers me, but I don't like that everytime I snap a window, it shows me a map of all other open windows on the other side. I kind of get what it's for, but I'm more than capable of snapping another window to the other side myself if I feel the need.


----------



## spirit

Punk said:


> Has anyone tried it on a tablet?
> 
> My Lenovo has the windows logo since it runs Win 8.1 . I'm still unsure if this is a wise idea to upgrade...


Yup. It runs great on my first generation Surface Pro! 



Troncoso said:


> I don't know if he's talking about the same thing that bothers me, but I don't like that everytime I snap a window, it shows me a map of all other open windows on the other side. I kind of get what it's for, but I'm more than capable of snapping another window to the other side myself if I feel the need.


That might be it. I can see that getting annoying if you don't want to snap another window next to it. Not sure if you can change that or not, I don't think so.


----------



## Aastii

spirit said:


> Hmmm the snapping works fine for me. You can now snap four windows on each display (one in each corner).





Troncoso said:


> I don't know if he's talking about the same thing that bothers me, but I don't like that everytime I snap a window, it shows me a map of all other open windows on the other side. I kind of get what it's for, but I'm more than capable of snapping another window to the other side myself if I feel the need.



This is exactly it, I didn't say that it doesn't work but that it does not work as it does in Windows 7. I am used to using it in such a way that I know what it will do and I know what I intend to do, only on 10 I don't any more because of the stupid additional windows.

I have found however that if you click the window that you have snapped to the side it will act the same as 7 did, albeit with one additional, unnecessary click


----------



## Jiniix

I believe you are looking for this, Aastii:
Settings -> Multitasking -> 'When I snap a window, show me what I can snap next to it' on/off
I turned it off, and it felt like Windows 7 again. Didn't test it much though.


----------



## Darren

The "Reset PC" option for my laptop worked perfectly. From all appearances it looks and acts like a clean install. The only remnants of the past are a Windows.old folder, but all it has in it are a few links that don't appear to do anything, no actual data or anything from what I can tell. My GPU drivers, both Intel and Nvidia were installed with the latest version and work fine as far as switchable graphics is concerned. After doing my upgrade, my trackpad didn't work at all, but doing the reset and it worked from the get go. My gestures are a bit different, but it's using a different driver than the Asus one I normally do. Even my WiFi adapter worked out of the gate, which surprised me a bit. Kudos to MS for doing a good job with the reset feature.


----------



## Jiniix

This OS is honestly extremely cluttered. I can't believe it takes like 6-7 more clicks for me to enable My Computer and the user folder on the desktop.
Instead of right clicking on the desktop, clicking Personalize and having the option in the left. Now it's just gone and in the new Settings. Going back to my initial reaction:


Jiniix said:


> I don't understand why we need two Control Panels/Settings though, seems like a stupid idea to me.


I can tell I need to freshen up my Run commands.
Seems like a sturdy OS though, after you've spent three times the time it takes to set up Windows 7.


----------



## voyagerfan99

Yeah, I hate that new personalization panel. They should keep everything in the control panel and other options (such as desktop icons, screen resolution, etc.) where they used to.


----------



## spirit

Yeah gotta admit I don't get why there's two Control Panels (just like there was in 8.1). Would be easier to just keep to having one.


----------



## Geoff

Anyone else have problems with not being able to search for applications?  I click on the start menu, and if I type for example "Excel", it only allows me to search the web for it, and I have to manually open up the MS Office folder and then launch Excel.


----------



## spirit

Geoff said:


> Anyone else have problems with not being able to search for applications?  I click on the start menu, and if I type for example "Excel", it only allows me to search the web for it, and I have to manually open up the MS Office folder and then launch Excel.


Seems fine for me.





I have Cortana enabled but I don't think you need Cortana enabled in order to just search for apps and files on the machine.


----------



## Jiniix

Did you _just_ install the PC? It takes longer for indexing to be done than with Windows 7, I've noticed 
Whenever I install a PC, the first thing I do is type "UAC" in the start.
Windows 7: Loading loading -> UAC
Windows 10: "Indexing is indexing, try again later"

Sort of related, but not the same. If you install desktop Skype, I can't figure out where the .exe is.
You can't make a desktop shortcut. If you 'Open at file location' it opens a folder with shortcuts. And you can't open that file location. Not a major problem, I just like having desktop shortcuts on my secondary monitor


----------



## WhoX

Geoff said:


> Anyone else have problems with not being able to search for applications?  I click on the start menu, and if I type for example "Excel", it only allows me to search the web for it, and I have to manually open up the MS Office folder and then launch Excel.



 Found this on the net. Some users said this corrected the problem.



> Reinstall Cortana using the following procedure:
> 
> 1. Open and elevated CMD window (rightclick --> run as admin)
> 2. Start powershell (type 'powershell' without quotes and press enter)
> 3. Run the command:
> 
> *Get-AppXPackage -Name Microsoft.Windows.Cortana | Foreach {Add-AppxPackage -DisableDevelopmentMode -Register "$($_.InstallLocation)\AppXManifest.xml"}*


----------



## beers

This one is driving me crazy, it looks like if you close an application from the taskbar (ie, right click->Close) such as Notepad and it has a dialog, the window focus completely ignores the dialog box.

Pretty lame to have to re-focus manually in order to use a keyboard shortcut for the dialogbox controls, when the behavior as long as I can remember defaulted to the alerting window.


----------



## Geoff

spirit said:


> Seems fine for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have Cortana enabled but I don't think you need Cortana enabled in order to just search for apps and files on the machine.


I get everything but the desktop app show up when I search, weird.  I installed W10 a couple weeks ago too.


----------



## Jiniix

Wauw, this really gets me.
Just installed Windows 10 on a ProBook 6550b. Did everything offline. Uninstalled all the "Get Skype", "Get Office" etc. Changed some settings, and when I rebooted (still 100% offline) they were back. I could uninstall them again. Holy cow, this is a major issue in my opinion.

Edit:
The more I use this OS the more I hate it.
Praise yourself lucky that you don't need a second language included. All I want is everything to be English and typing/clock/date to be Danish. Why should this be so hard?
I thought I had set it all up, everything looked good. But after a few restarts, suddenly Calculator was called Lommeregner, but Camera was still Camera (Kamera in Danish).
Calculator no longer responds to Start -> 'calc', which is how I have always opened it.
So I went digging again, and while in the settings I saw it pop up and say "Hey, you can change your Windows language to Danish!" (During clean installation I explicitly said English OS and Danish locale). It started doing it automatically!
Now it had changed a lot of my settings to Auto/Recommended rather than Danish.
And, I'm not even kidding, I change it back to Danish. Now it changes my clock from 24-hour format to AM/PM. That is exactly the opposite of what I asked it to do.

Rant done, but oh my god what are you doing Microsoft STAHP plz
I was seriously considering doing the upgrade this weekend - now I'm not. Gonna let it mature a few months...


----------



## spirit

Just curious - anybody here running Windows 10 with an AMD graphics card?

After some initial issues with NVIDIA drivers and 10, I got it going by installing 10 offline and installing NVIDIA's drivers offline. Just upgraded to the new NVIDIA drivers released today for Windows 10 through their 'GeForce Experience' software. I've used this methods lots of times on 8.1 and had no issues. As it was installing my monitor turned on and off (expected) but just like when I was having issues with NVIDIA drivers from Windows Update, it didn't come back on. Had to guess when the driver installation was done by looking at my HDD activity LED on my case. When it wasn't on I reset the PC and then it sat there and configured updates for a bit. Seems to be working OK now but have noticed Google Chrome has been freezing here and there since the upgrade to the newer drivers and there are some other instabilities.

Next time when GeForce Experience pops up and tells me there's an update for my drivers I'll manually download it from NVIDIA's site and install it offline I think, just to take Windows Update out the equation completely. That might be a better way to do it.

Anyway, I don't have a machine with an AMD GPU in it at the moment, but if anybody here is running 10 with an AMD card I'd be interested to hear how AMD's drivers are. NVIDIA's still need some time to mature IMO but maybe AMD have it cracked? Looking on the Twitter quite a few people are complaining about poor AMD drivers for Windows 10 too.


----------



## WhoX

spirit said:


> Just curious - anybody here running Windows 10 with an AMD graphics card?



Using a MSI Radeon HD 7790. It didn't find the driver automatically, had to download and install manually.


----------



## spirit

WhoX said:


> Using a MSI Radeon HD 7790. It didn't find the driver automatically, had to download and install manually.


Lucky you! I think the drivers for NVIDIA cards that are on Windowsa Update are still the dud ones that can send your PC into automatic repair mode on start-up.


----------



## spirit

Right ok so after that last update in which I had to guess when installation was finished because my monitor did not come back on, Google Chrome was freezing quite a bit. I downloaded the latest driver for my GTX 760 from the NVIDIA site, took my PC offline, rebooted into Safe Mode, used DDU to remove the drivers that were installed and then installed the drivers I downloaded, also offline. I'm up and running again now and it already seems better.

So if you have an NVIDIA card and you see the update to the latest driver come through GeForce Experience, I'd recommend downloading the driver from NVIDIA's site and installing it offline instead of upgrading through the GeForce Experience app. Using DDU is probably a bit unnecessary - I only used it because I thought the previous driver installation was damaged.


----------



## beers

spirit said:


> Just curious - anybody here running Windows 10 with an AMD graphics card?


Mine was pretty auto, too.  It even installed the entire CCC suite off the bat with an older driver version.  CFX by default, no real issues launching games or similar.


----------



## ninjabubbles3

Getting weird buzzing noises in games. Is this the audio driver issue?


----------



## Jiniix

I've installed it with GTX 460 without any issues (offline installation with newest W10 driver from NVIDIA) and various Intel onboard GPUs from Update. All has worked just fine.


----------



## spirit

Yeah when I install NVIDIA drivers offline with the newest 10 driver it's fine. Wouldn't recommend doing it online because Windows Update will mess things up. 

I've also not had a problem with Intel drivers. I've tried that on my Surface Pro, ThinkPad and an i7 3770 now (HD 4400 and 4600).


----------



## Geoff

It found the drivers automatically for my 7970.  I had install failures on Windows 8.1 and 10 with trying to install them from the AMD website.  The driver issues alone are enough for me to switch to nVidia for my next video card.


----------



## Aastii

beers said:


> Mine was pretty auto, too.  It even installed the entire CCC suite off the bat with an older driver version.  CFX by default, no real issues launching games or similar.



Yep same here, drivers seem pretty solid to me, games are performing just as well under 10 as they were on 7 and no crashes or dodgy behaviour yet


----------



## CrayonMuncher

Aastii said:


> Yep same here, drivers seem pretty solid to me, games are performing just as well under 10 as they were on 7 and no crashes or dodgy behaviour yet



I completely agree, although i'm on nividia, but I have no issues since the launch of win 10. Had some issues with the RTM build prior to official launch, but they seem to have been fixed in the final version.

I'm starting to like it more than windows 10.

Ran several games/programs etc with little to no issues. The issues I have had were application specific and prob would have been present on 7.

Only thing I seem to be running into is errors stating I am running out of memory when using sli, yet plenty of memory is available, seems to be most prevalent in farcry 4.


----------



## WhoX

I think a solid solution for the multi control or tool panels is Windows GodMode. I used it in Windows 7 to quickly access features and tools I needed or used regularly. 

For those who don't know, create a new folder and rename it to this: GodMode.{ED7BA470-8E54-465E-825C-99712043E01C}


----------



## StrangleHold

I just running a 6950 right now. Windows installed the driver and CCC then updated it a few days ago.


----------



## Shane

Cant believe you guys are using windows 10 with all those privacy invasion,Forced windows updates and other crap..im sticking with windows 8.1.


----------



## Jiniix

I'm only running it on alt/secondary computers  Main system is still Windows 7.


----------



## Geoff

Shane said:


> Cant believe you guys are using windows 10 with all those privacy invasion,Forced windows updates and other crap..im sticking with windows 8.1.



Because the performance and UI is a lot better than 8.1.


----------



## CrayonMuncher

I'm loving the ui over windows 7, find it hard to go back. 
Wish win 10 home had full bitlocker support tho, it lets me unlock drives already encrypted but doesn't seem to let me encrypt stuff, unless I'm missing something.


----------



## beers

Geoff said:


> Because the performance and UI is a lot better than 8.1.


Bah, my benches went down a bit after jumping to 10..


----------



## Geoff

beers said:


> Bah, my benches went down a bit after jumping to 10..


Software overclocking perhaps that you forgot to reconfigure?


----------



## Darren

Waking from sleep takes about as long as it does to boot up from being completely off. Which is about 5 seconds. So I guess that's good or bad depending how you look at it. This started within the past week or so, and is only on my desktop. I had zero issues with installing my AMD drivers or my NVIDIA drivers on their respective machines. NVIDIA ones were even up to date with a driver released three days prior on first boot on a clean install. That impressed me.

I'm having some issues with my audio drivers pertaining to my Logitech Webcam. Camera function is fine but I frequently get Micky Mouse voice in Skype and have to mess around with the driver a bit before it magically works again. I haven't really troubleshooted this though.

My laptop had some audio enhancement software get installed automatically and defaulted to music, which consequently made everything super tinny and god awful. My roommate had the same issue, but his laptop is also identical. I couldn't find the actual software on his machine, but he did an upgrade while I did a clean install. I was able to override it by applying an equalizer though and setting it to flat. For mine I just uninstalled the software. 

Other than those small things, I've had nothing but positive results from switching both of my machines. 5 second boot up is heaven on my desktop. Now just have to wait for an Android release.


----------



## Aastii

Shane said:


> Cant believe you guys are using windows 10 with all those privacy invasion,Forced windows updates and other crap..im sticking with windows 8.1.



You mean all the stuff that can be turned off?

Plus you are on the Internet, you are being incredibly naïve if you think that you are not already being tracked just by being online 


I have done a bit of very unscientific benchmarking and have actually found a degredation in gaming performance. I am chalking it down to young drivers for the platform still, but it is definitely there. In older games it seems to be worse, which I guess may be understandable given that they were not designed for this environment, CoD4 and Fallout 3/NV I have noticed either moments of lag, or in the case of CoD 4 which I have capped at 250FPS, I have seen drops to 180 at times


----------



## Okedokey

The stuff they track  is no more revealing than getting on the buss with your electronic pass...... TWITCH windows weekly discuss this in their latest podcast.


----------



## Aastii

Okedokey said:


> The stuff they track  is no more revealing than getting on the buss with your electronic pass...... TWITCH windows weekly discuss this in their latest podcast.



Or over here even when you fill your car up with fuel, Tesco (one of our major supermarket chains) has facial scanners at the pumps. People aren't going to stop driving now because of it.

You aren't going to stop it, which doesn't make it right, but makes losing sleep over it completely pointless


----------



## Okedokey

They can know whatever they want about me, im boring.


----------



## johnb35

Okedokey said:


> They can know whatever they want about me, im boring.



We already knew that!!!


----------



## Okedokey

Thanks John, now you have a friend with similar interests


----------



## spirit

All but one PC in my house is running Windows 10 Pro x64 now. All are running fine! Four were completely clean installed with Windows 10 Pro installation media and the other two were upgraded from 8.1 Pro using the 'Get Windows 10' update. The PC which is still on 8.1 Pro (with Media Centre) will be upgraded soon. Not too bothered about losing Windows Media Centre, we were going to use it when we built the HTPC and installed 8.1 Pro with Media Centre on it but actually never did and there are alternatives out there we could use instead.

I agree with what Aastii and Okedokey are saying above regarding the privacy. Sometimes these things can get blown out of proportion by the media and if you really are concerned there are lots of sites online and videos on YouTube telling you what to turn off.


----------



## Darren

I finally caved and started using my laptop to take notes in class and holy crap can I say that Microsoft really got their game together for touchpads. I downright HATED touchpads for years and years and would adamantly prefer a mouse in every situation. I got my laptop last year with 8.1 and the built in Asus gesture software worked alright. Two fingers to scroll, and pinch to zoom (bit clunky), were used regularly. Now I'm using my laptop more and frequently using multiple Windows with a Powerpoint open, Blackboard open, Word open, and Outlook open, I can still easily use a trackpad. 3 finger swipe up will instantly bring up all my windows and I can click to switch easily. Swipe down with three fingers pulls up the desktop and three finger swipe side to side flips to the next windows open. Once I got used to it, which took about 10 mins, I was able to navigate almost as well as I can with my mouse and dual screen set up at home.

I'm unsure how much of that functionality is purely built in, or just improvement on Asus' part. I know some generic touchpad drivers were installed automatically, and I think that's where the gesture support comes from as it feels much smoother and "lower level" than the Asus software I had on 8.1. I sit in classes surrounded by Macs with their super smooth UI's and fancy animations. My Windows machine used to always stick out like a sore thumb, but now the whole "smoothness" advantage of OS X is nonexistent and even eclipsed in speed by W10 features. 

Windows Defender still has almost zero options though, which is annoying as I can't schedule scans or anything really except turning it off completely. And even that is just temporary.


----------



## spirit

For taking notes in class I use Microsoft OneNote and whilst OneNote 2013 (which is part of Office 2013/365) is absolutely fine, the 'OneNote app' that was included with Windows 8.1 was better than the OneNote app that's included with Windows 10. In Windows 8.1 the OneNote app was full screen which was ideal for using the Surface Pen (I use my Surface Pro) but the Windows 10 app doesn't go full screen which is a shame and annoying because when I place my palm on my tablet it starts opening up other stuff. The app in 8.1 also made it much easier to use tabbed sections in notebooks than the app in 10 does. I think that the OneNote app is a bit of a downgrade to be honest and one issue I forgot to mention in my previous post is that in tablet mode on my Surface Pro sometimes ink in OneNote disappears and there is some odd behaviour. This issue is apparently well-documented so I'm waiting for a fix, but in desktop mode apparently it works fine.

Other than that issue with OneNote and me not liking the Windows 10 OneNote app as much, it's running fine on my first generation Surface Pro, too. I'm not using the OneNote app at the moment, I'm using the desktop OneNote 2013.


----------



## Darren

I have free Office 2013 from school. I should try out OneNote. Totally forgot about that program, would probably be useful.


----------



## spirit

Darren said:


> I have free Office 2013 from school. I should try out OneNote. Totally forgot about that program, would probably be useful.


Yeah it's great. If you have any questions about it drop me a PM. I'm OneNote 2013 certified (OneNote 2013 MOS).


----------



## Ambushed

There are good courses for IT Professional's to do with Windows 10 on MVA - URL: www.microsoftvirtualacademy.com


----------



## Darren

spirit said:


> Yeah it's great. If you have any questions about it drop me a PM. I'm OneNote 2013 certified (OneNote 2013 MOS).



Took me about 5 mins using it before I completely switched over from writing my notes. I'd tried Word in the past but it was obnoxious about formatting so I gave up as I spent more time fighting the software rather than paying attention.


----------



## beers

Ughhhhhhh it annoys me so much, installed Windows with a local account.  The second you sign into the Xbox app it forces your Windows install to use the MS account.

Why do those two have to be related?  There's no reason it can't just store the Xbox credentials itself without screwing with my local account...


----------



## WhoX

spirit said:


> Yeah it's great. If you have any questions about it drop me a PM. I'm OneNote 2013 certified (OneNote 2013 MOS).



Out of all the software I have installed, OneNote is the one I use the most. I don't know what I'd do without it.


----------



## spirit

Great to see other members loving OneNote, it is fantastic and often underrated! 

Just wondering if anybody here is having issues with Google Chrome on Windows 10. On my desktop it is crashing constantly but on my ThinkPad it seems fine. I've got a friend with a Surface who says that Chrome crashes a lot under Windows 10 for him too. Anybody else here experiencing issues? I've only got two extensions installed (AdBlock and Web of Trust) and haven't had any issues before - tried the usual cleaning cache etc and might have to reinstall Chrome if the issue persists. Crashes about 10 times per day, quite randomly.


----------



## Shane

beers said:


> Why do those two have to be related?  There's no reason it can't just store the Xbox credentials itself without screwing with my local account...



Because its windows 10


----------



## Darren

spirit said:


> Great to see other members loving OneNote, it is fantastic and often underrated!
> 
> Just wondering if anybody here is having issues with Google Chrome on Windows 10. On my desktop it is crashing constantly but on my ThinkPad it seems fine. I've got a friend with a Surface who says that Chrome crashes a lot under Windows 10 for him too. Anybody else here experiencing issues? I've only got two extensions installed (AdBlock and Web of Trust) and haven't had any issues before - tried the usual cleaning cache etc and might have to reinstall Chrome if the issue persists. Crashes about 10 times per day, quite randomly.



Had zero problems with Chrome on both of my machines.


----------



## spirit

Darren said:


> Had zero problems with Chrome on both of my machines.


Yeah it seems to be ok on my ThinkPad and Surface, might be just a bad install on my desktop. I'll reinstall it later.


----------



## Darren

This OS, in my opinion, should require or strongly encourage a clean install or reset.

The upgrade/update process is convenient, but it causes too many problems. My roommate and I have completely identical laptops. His is his only machine, and mine is my portable machine, so his naturally sees more use and is probably a bit more bogged down. Still though, he moans on a day to day basis about how many problems he has with W10. Hangs, freezes, black screens, drivers, and general sluggishness. Meanwhile mine is practically flawless and feels like a completely different machine than his.

My laptop was of course less bogged down than his when we both had 8.1, but the absolutely insane difference between the two machines now is worth the effort to do a Reset. The amount of time he's wasted waiting on it to cooperate in the span of a few days is probably equivalent to the time needed to just backup and reset and be done with it.

TL DR
"Reset this PC" after upgrading to Windows 10. Just do it.

/endrant

I might just steal his laptop and wipe it myself.


----------



## Troncoso

3/3 of my Win10 installs have been fine.


----------



## beers

Darren said:


> Meanwhile mine is practically flawless and feels like a completely different machine than his.


Maybe the difference is that you actually know what you're doing


----------



## Darren

beers said:


> Maybe the difference is that you actually know what you're doing



True enough. He's not computer illiterate by any means, but he doesn't religiously maintain it like I do. I still standby my wipe/reinstall about once a year for my machines.

Even after me having a whack at tuning it up, it was only moderately less crappy. I sort of wonder if his hard drive is dying. He had issues with it last year for a week or so, such as it locking up and BSOD'ing or refusing to boot entirely. I swapped our drives and his worked fine in my machine, and mine was fine in his. Seatooled his for good measure, and swapped 'em back. Hasn't had the BSOD's since.

What are your guys experience with the upgrade process? I've only seen it done 4 times, 3 of which were my doing.

My webcam driver on my desktop still gets screwed up at various whims, making me sound like Mickey Mouse. Apart from disabling all automatic drivers, which I don't want, is there a way to prevent a driver from installing on one particular piece of hardware?


----------



## ssal

I have to chimp in to say all my three machines are fine with the upgrade and after the upgrade. Three different machines three very unique characteristic. A 4-5 year old Toshiba L455 with only 4 gb ram; a small notebook Asus X205TA with only 32 gb emmc and 2 gb ram; and a relatively new Toshiba i7 with 12 gb ram and plenty of SSD space.

I upgraded quite early on and had to revert back to Win 8.1. But looking back, it was my fault because I had not thought through the process. That taught me a lot about subsequent upgrade. The Asus was a challege because of the limited ram and "dish space".

But all of them run well and I am learning more and more of the features (basically stuff that I did in the previous version). 

Windows 10 is definitely a winner, particularly when MS is giving it away for free.


----------



## spirit

Darren said:


> This OS, in my opinion, should require or strongly encourage a clean install or reset.


I always recommending doing a clean install of any OS anyway, but you can clean install 10 without buying it. I believe if you do the upgrade to 10 and then do a fresh install using a Windows 10 disc/USB (use the free Windows Media Creator tool which you can download from Microsoft to obtain the ISO and make the USB or DVD), it will be activated and genuine. I'll have to ask dad what the exact steps are because he did it on his laptop, but it is possible.


----------



## Jiniix

All of mine has upgraded just fine, but they've never been used for more than activation, then offline reinstall right after. Exactly how spirit describes it.
Upgrade -> Make sure activated -> Format -> Disable automatic driver installation -> Offline install of drivers and apps -> online to activate and Windows Update.


----------



## Origin Saint

Maybe this is the wrong place to chime in with a question, but it is relevant to Windows 10 

So I recently discovered that Cortana is supposedly able to play your music using voice commands.  With 22 GB of music, this is a relief, as I get a little tired of using iTunes to search through it sometimes, plus voice control is almost always more fun.

I attempted to use this feature yesterday and encountered all kinds of frustration.  When I ask Cortana to play __insert-song-name-here__ or when I ask her to play __insert-song-name-here__ by __insert-band-name-here__, she says "OK playing _so-and-so_" then says "I'm sorry, there are no _so-and-so_ songs on your device" or something to that effect.

These songs are most definitely on my device, that I can assure you.  I have done enough research to know that Cortana, at the moment, basically exclusively interacts with Groove Music.  So I told Groove Music where my music was (my 2 TB B:\ drive), and it proceeded to find all my music and sync it up and was able to play any of them.  Great, I can get Cortana to control this now!  Hold that though, she did the same thing.  They're both on the same Microsoft account, I made sure of that, just in case.  I also ran a scannow on command prompt to check Windows files, nothing wrong there.

I decided to try copy and pasting some songs from B:\ to the "Music" folder under my "User" account in the C:\ drive and see if it could suddenly find them.  What do you know, suddenly Cortana knows where just these few songs are.

So is Cortana really limited enough to only detect songs saved on the same drive as Windows under the Music folder?  Seems like a really trivial issue.  Anybody have any workarounds or something, besides filling my SSD with songs?

Other than that, I'm loving the Win10 experience!


----------



## beers

I'd try a drive letter other than B:, usually A: and B: were specifically used for floppy devices.


----------



## spirit

Windows RT 8.1 Update 3 came out recently - this update makes RT 8.1 look a little bit like 10 with the Start Menu and so on but is missing some features from 10 such as the ability to run modern apps windowed.

I brought a Surface RT first generation home from school today to upgrade to RT 8.1 Update 3 but it turns out this was one of the RTs I reinstalled a while ago and just left (it's probably one of the spare machines), so there's over 200 updates to install before I can put Update 3 on! We have around 200 Surface RTs at school by the way.


----------



## Origin Saint

beers said:


> I'd try a drive letter other than B:, usually A: and B: were specifically used for floppy devices.



Unfortunately it didn't work. 
Well, it was worth a shot.  Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## beers

Origin Saint said:


> Unfortunately it didn't work.
> Well, it was worth a shot.  Thanks for the suggestion.



Yeah kind of thought it was a long shot, thanks for the follow up


----------



## Darren

No idea on the legitimacy of this site.

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/wi...se-windows-7-8-or-8-1-product-key-to-activate


----------



## Okedokey

Paul Thurott is very reputable.


----------



## Darren

I'm seeing it pop up other places, so I guess it's true.


----------



## speedyink

Anyone else find Windows 10 a complete mess performance wise?  I mean sure it runs fine on my 8 core gaming computer, but everything else I've used it on there are times where there is significant wait times in places there shouldn't be.  Pressing start for example can take over a second to open quite frequently.  Here's a real instance that happened at work.  I needed to calculate something quickly.  Press search, wait a second or two for it to pop up, type calc, wait multiple seconds for it to show a calc app, then open, which since the new metro version now pops up first, also takes like 2-3 seconds to open.  This same task took like 2 seconds total in previous Windows versions.  

Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of things in Windows 10, I just don't understand the huge dip in performance all of a sudden.


----------



## beers

speedyink said:


> Press search, wait a second or two for it to pop up, type calc, wait multiple seconds for it to show a calc app, then open, which since the new metro version now pops up first, also takes like 2-3 seconds to open. This same task took like 2 seconds total in previous Windows versions.



You might find it more convenient to use Win+R


----------



## speedyink

beers said:


> You might find it more convenient to use Win+R



Well that's another way of doing it, and what I did pre-Vista, but that search box in the Start menu became just that slight bit more convenient =P  

On the plus side that major update they just released for 10 seems to have ironed out the performance issues.


----------



## Fatherboard

I downloaded 10 and it took 3 hours, if my very poor internet connection were to drop out in that time I would have had to do it all over again!, perhaps that's why it has failed to download for some? After a couple of hours navigating around it I found that it had wiped my security programme and some of my installed from disc programmes, all of which I could not reinstall, the disc programmes were 'incompatible' and my security was 'out of date' despite it having another 8 months left to run. Cortana does not work in the UK, you have to use the type box, what a load of rubbish, it's only trying to copy Goggle speech, at least that works! Why are things being called Apps, IOS does not use Apps, Android does that, another con. Ended up dumping it and going back to 7, the best OS, that took 3 minutes and the wiped programmes were restored but I had to reinstall my security..............If anyone wants to get rid of that annoying Windows icon that they've put on your taskbar and permanently get rid of it you have to find it in 'control panel' in 'view updates' as it has come to you via a Windows update and you have to uninstall it, anyone wanting to do this I can tell you more how to. If you don't want 10 and don't remove the update/icon before 29th July 2016 I have been informed that it will automatically download on your PC and you're then stuck with it!


----------



## C4C

Fatherboard said:


> I downloaded 10 and it took 3 hours, if my very poor internet connection were to drop out in that time I would have had to do it all over again!



You lost me here. Entirely confused...

Did you clean install Win10? Might have been easier to download the iso and put it on a usb drive instead.

Also, Cortana and the search bar next to her are easily detached with a right-click. I have yet to entirely remove Cortana.

What does Apple and Android have to do with Microsoft?


----------



## Fatherboard

As far as I understand it there is no need to clean install as you may loose everything if you want to go back unless you backup everything which they say you don't need to. I'm not aware that you have an option to download to a disc drive or that you can detach anything with a right click. Whatever you can or cannot do I for one will be sticking with Windows 7.

Apple have nothing to do with Microsoft, I never mentioned Apple. Microsoft are trying to copy the Android system or make it look like Android by referring to certain elements as 'Apps'.


----------



## Geoff

Fatherboard said:


> As far as I understand it there is no need to clean install as you may loose everything if you want to go back unless you backup everything which they say you don't need to. I'm not aware that you have an option to download to a disc drive or that you can detach anything with a right click. Whatever you can or cannot do I for one will be sticking with Windows 7.
> 
> Apple have nothing to do with Microsoft, I never mentioned Apple. Microsoft are trying to copy the Android system or make it look like Android by referring to certain elements as 'Apps'.


Yes a clean install removes all your data, but it also removes every trace of your previous OS.  Lots of people have issues after performing an OS upgrade, so a clean install is recommended.  Besides, you should absolutely back up your data before doing an upgrade just in case.


----------



## Fatherboard

But that's just it, they say that you don't need to back up anything as 'all your programmes and files will be preserved' but clearly some are not. I think unless you're a compter wizard there are going to be many issues with it, no matter how many updates, patches and fixes are put out.


----------



## Geoff

Fatherboard said:


> But that's just it, they say that you don't need to back up anything as 'all your programmes and files will be preserved' but clearly some are not. I think unless you're a compter wizard there are going to be many issues with it, no matter how many updates, patches and fixes are put out.


The intent is that no data will be lost, but as with any upgrade, you should always create a backup as sometimes the upgrade doesn't go as planned and can hose your system.


----------



## Fatherboard

But I wonder how many will do a complete backup before they download the upgrade? I'm pretty certain that there will be a vast majority of people that are not that particularly computer savvy, like I say, not everyone are computer wizards and would even think about it, too late when a month has past since you upgraded or the month after the upgrade offer date has passed, you're then stuck with it. You don't have to be offered the upgrade either, regardless of weather you have the upgrade icon showing or no anyone using Windows 7 home, premium or professional or 8.1 can upgrade for free anyway before the end of next July.


----------



## strollin

I personally wish MS wasn't pushing the "in place" upgrade so hard.  With pretty much all previous versions of Windows, a clean install was the recommended and preferred way of upgrading.  In place upgrades have always been trouble prone.

At minimum, when someone starts the upgrade to Win 10, there should be a nag screen warning them to make sure they have a full backup before proceeding.


----------



## Okedokey

A lot of user issues here IMHO.


----------



## Cromewell

strollin said:


> they have a full backup before proceeding


I did the upgrade yesterday. Definitely got a nag screen about backups.

Haven't had much in the way of problems. Edge browser seems slow, and my onboard sound's MIC input is a bit low but that's about it.


----------



## jevery

Is anyone happy with the email in WIn10?
I'm unable to block or specify that emails from a domain be sent to the junk/spam folder. In Live Mail the action of moving an email from the inbox to the junk folder brought up a query to send all future mail from the domain to the junk folder - Not so in Win 10 email. Such a simple thing and I can't seem to find an answer. I've dismissed Edge and now about to dismiss the email program. Disappointing...............


----------



## martinhersey

WIN 10 seems simple and easy, but, in my first trial run, it seems nothing much has changed. The nice thing is, Microsoft givers you a free upgrade. The new version seems Microsoftian dumb as usual. It tempts you into doing a lot of things that it has already done.


----------



## Jiniix

I was at a LAN the last couple of days. Friend plugs in an external USB HDD and his PC shuts down. Turning it on states something like "USB over current, shutting down in 15 seconds". Ten minutes of diagnosing and motherboard and CPU was 100% RIP. (Phenom 1055T and ASUS M4N68T).
Went home and picked up a Intel Q8300 and Gigabyte G31M-S2L. Originally it was AHCI installed on an AMD platform, but upon booting it with IDE (G31M-S2L doesn't support AHCI) the Windows 10 Upgrade-style screen comes up and starts configuring and installing devices, as well as Windows Updates. 
It worked flawlessly and he could continue playing games without reinstall. GGWP Windows 10 and have a good new year!


----------



## Punk

I just installed it on my old desktop and it looks good but yeah nothing groundbreaking. I don't have any compatibility issues yet. I might update my laptop after the "end of semesters" exams as I need to be able to use the laptop and access all my Uni lectures. Still unsure if I'll do it or not but the good experience I have on my desktop is making me lean towards upgrading.
My new desktop will probably stay under 8.1 Pro though.


----------



## johnb35

So I figured I would install it on my windows 7 system which I did a fresh install back on November 15th.  I start the update, tells me it can't determine if I have enough space available.  I research the error and basically find out that you need to disconnect any external drives and such.  I disconnect by external drive and it gets past that point.  It reboots to actually start installing 10 and then comes up with an error code of this.

0xc1900101-0x2000c

Looked it up and a few different things to try to solve this.

1. Uninstall antivirus program.  Uninstalled avast.
2. Check to make sure you have enough free space.  I do.
3. Run sfc /scannow to check for errors.  Did and no errors.

Why did I even bother try upgrading???  I really don't want to do a clean install.  I guess I will try doing it again tomorrow.  Anyone else having upgrade issues?


----------



## johnb35

Did some more troubleshooting this morning and found out that it was a windows update issue why 10 wouldn't finish upgrading.  However, the radeon settings software (cnext.exe) is causing a bad image error at bootup, I've disabled the startup program to see if that fixes it.  I'm curious to see if having 10 installed will fix some of the video playback issues in Pale Moon, only time will tell.  Really don't like the start menu so I've got classic shell installed.  Just have to reinstall Avast now.


----------



## Okedokey

Once you're activated, id recommend a clean install John.  The update process works well, but its just a ticking time-bomb in my experience.  I prefer clean, updated installs.


----------



## johnb35

Yep, thats my plan, eventually.  My GF has been playing Star Wars Battlefront on my pc since she doesn't have a good video card to play it.  I have to read up on how to backup her game and the progress, haven't done it in a few years.  I just want to sort of try it out on my system first.


----------



## spirit

Okedokey said:


> Once you're activated, id recommend a clean install John.  The update process works well, but its just a ticking time-bomb in my experience.  I prefer clean, updated installs.


Yeah I haven't done an upgrade to 10 on any of my PCs. Clean installation every time. I did upgrade my brother's PC from 8.1 Pro to 10 Pro though and it's fine but the difference is he only has a few programs on his PC: just stuff like Office, iTunes, Chrome, anti-virus and that's about it. I've got a lot of other stuff.

I've always preferred doing clean installations of Windows.


----------



## Punk

I've updated my laptop, no problems so far and running Avast.

If I run into problems I'll probably clean install it but as of now, everything is fine


----------



## johnb35

Just upgraded to 10 on my GF's pc and no issues on that one thankfully.  Installed classic shell on it as well as she don't like the new start menu.  She will be surprised when she gets home from work later and I won't be here as I'll be at work.


----------



## beers

Has anyone had weird lag issues in W10?  In the last month or so I had >1 second lag spikes every 10 seconds.  Did some basic troubleshooting which was unfruitful and reformatted which resolved it for a couple weeks but then I was exhibiting the same issues last night (with no known changes to my environment)

Same behavior between different NICs and different APs, wasn't exhibited on non-W10 nodes.  I dumped it for 8.1 this morning and it seemed resolved again.

Just seemed kind of odd.


----------



## voyagerfan99

lol Windows 10 has been out for almost 6 months and it still has issues. Glad I'm still on 8.1 and don't plan on touching 10 for quite some time.


----------



## Cromewell

beers said:


> Has anyone had weird lag issues in W10? In the last month or so I had >1 second lag spikes every 10 seconds.


In what context? I have some lag spikes in certain games and some video artifacting that I never used to have but otherwise it's been fairly solid.


----------



## beers

Cromewell said:


> In what context? I have some lag spikes in certain games and some video artifacting that I never used to have but otherwise it's been fairly solid.



All traffic seemed to hang up for a second or so.  I whipped out a ping to 8.8.8.8 or even the LAN gateway and you could set your watch to it, every 10 seconds it'd spike up over 1000ms.

Trying to play CSGO or iRacing was very frustrating as there'd either be rubberbanding or the cars would warp everywhere and look like they're spastically wrecking into everything for a second or so


----------



## Geoff

voyagerfan99 said:


> lol Windows 10 has been out for almost 6 months and it still has issues. Glad I'm still on 8.1 and don't plan on touching 10 for quite some time.


Huh?  In my experience, Windows 10 is much smoother, just as stable, and overall a much better UI than Windows 8.1.


----------



## Cromewell

beers said:


> All traffic seemed to hang up for a second or so.  I whipped out a ping to 8.8.8.8 or even the LAN gateway and you could set your watch to it, every 10 seconds it'd spike up over 1000ms.
> 
> Trying to play CSGO or iRacing was very frustrating as there'd either be rubberbanding or the cars would warp everywhere and look like they're spastically wrecking into everything for a second or so


Weird. Definitely don't have that doing on. Just crappy graphics drivers for my old HD7950.


Geoff said:


> Huh? In my experience, Windows 10 is much smoother, just as stable, and overall a much better UI than Windows 8.1.


Mine as well.


----------



## johnb35

Yeah, I'm still having blue screen issues on my upgrade and I believe its due to the AMD driver software.  Just had another blue screen this morning.  Will most likely be doing a fresh install soon.  And it seems the upgrade to 10 has solved most of my Pale Moon browser issues with videos.


----------



## beers

johnb35 said:


> due to the AMD driver software



Boooo, don't be one of those


----------



## Punk

johnb35 said:


> Yeah, I'm still having blue screen issues on my upgrade and I believe its due to the AMD driver software.  Just had another blue screen this morning.  Will most likely be doing a fresh install soon.  And it seems the upgrade to 10 has solved most of my Pale Moon browser issues with videos.


The AMD driver problem is what's keeping from upgrading my "new" desktop. I'd hate to have BSOD because of this and not be able to play some of the games I have just because I upgraded... But I do like the new UI.


----------



## spirit

Geoff said:


> Huh?  In my experience, Windows 10 is much smoother, just as stable, and overall a much better UI than Windows 8.1.


I like them both but for different reasons. Before the November update (Build 10586, Version 1511) I preferred 8.1 because of its superior stability, but since the November update Windows 10 has been rock solid too on all of the PCs I've had it on. On a traditional desktop computer or laptop I prefer 10 but on a tablet or touch device like my Surface Pro I prefer 8.1. The touch experience is better in 8.1 if you ask me and many of the 8.1 Metro apps that worked really well on a touchscreen device, like my Surface, are easier and more intuitive to use than their Windows 10 counterparts on a touchscreen. The OneNote app in 8.1 is superior to the OneNote app in 10 for example simply because the one in 8.1 is full screen which is what you want on a tablet and it's easier to create new pages, change pen colour etc (just look online). 



Punk said:


> The AMD driver problem is what's keeping from upgrading my "new" desktop. I'd hate to have BSOD because of this and not be able to play some of the games I have just because I upgraded... But I do like the new UI.


No problems here on the NVIDIA side for me and I've built a few systems with NVIDIA cards since 10 came out. There were early issues but they seem to be fixed now.

One problem with 10 is that the mandatory update thing can conflict with GPU drivers. Take a look at step 3 in my guide and see if applying that patch helps. Then uninstall and reinstall the latest drivers for your card: http://www.computerforum.com/thread...all-graphics-drivers-amd-nvidia-intel.230370/


----------



## Fatherboard

johnb35 said:


> Just upgraded to 10 on my GF's pc and no issues on that one thankfully.  Installed classic shell on it as well as she don't like the new start menu.  She will be surprised when she gets home from work later and I won't be here as I'll be at work.



If when she gets back from work and chucks you out and  locks the door with all your belongings outside in a heap you'll know why!


----------



## johnb35

Fatherboard said:


> If when she gets back from work and chucks you out and  locks the door with all your belongings outside in a heap you'll know why!



She told me to do it whenever I could do it, probably wasn't expecting it so soon though.  


Punk said:


> The AMD driver problem is what's keeping from upgrading my "new" desktop. I'd hate to have BSOD because of this and not be able to play some of the games I have just because I upgraded



I've had 3 BSOD's in a matter of 5 minutes today so I guess I'll be doing a fresh install to see if that stops the problem.    Not really what I wanted to do today but oh well.


----------



## beers

Punk said:


> The AMD driver problem is what's keeping from upgrading my "new" desktop.


If you have constant 'stopped responding' issues it's usually more indicative of an underlying hardware issue than the driver itself.


----------



## Darren

For W10 and AMD here's what I'd do. I've dealt with them enough as of late.

Clean install of W10 (should be done for any W10 install)
Download latest drivers for W10 from AMD. They used to have Catalyst Control Center but they've switched to Crimson. It had a rocky start but is fine now. Just don't use the beta ones. 
Disconnect from the internet
Uninstall any and all AMD drivers/related software using standard uninstall procedure for software or devices
Reboot
Install drivers using what you downloaded earlier
Just do default installation of drivers that Crimson prompts you. Disable the Rapt/Gaming Evolved software if desired. I would as it's useless really.
Reboot
Reconnect to the internet. Windows 10 shouldn't try and overwrite your drivers now. If you uninstall them while connected to the internet, it will though. Crimson should keep your drivers up to date after that. 

I'm not using Crimson simply because it's a bit to aggressive with undervolting my 7970. I'm fairly certain the fan bug I got when Crimson beta launched partially fried my card and it's picky with voltage and seems a bit "crashy". I'm still using CCC, but might check out Crimson again. Leery to mess with it though since it's happy currently. It's been trouble free on several other machines of my friends that are on Windows 10 though. Few small issues that are usually game specific and being addressed.

Don't let the "AMD has crap drivers" thing get to you too much. They've been fairly good the past couple years and they're definitely making consistent progress. Just stay away from beta drivers and you should be fine. They've been pushing driver updates every few weeks and I think the newest iteration is going to be out soon with their new GPU line.


----------



## johnb35

I just got done with the fresh install and installing the latest AMD drivers so we will see if the bluescreens stop.  Crossing my fingers. 

@Punk I'll let you know in a few days if the fresh install took care of my bluescreens.


----------



## spirit

I do like Windows 10 but what I don't really like so much is Microsoft's way of urging those using 7 and 8.1 to upgrade. I have 8.1 on my Surface and every time I boot it up I'm just bombarded with messages telling me that Windows 10 is the best thing since sliced bread and I need to upgrade. Funnily enough I had 10 on my Surface but I went back to 8.1 because 8.1 works better on it. I really need to remove that update.


----------



## tremmor

Getting comfortable with it now. Trying to keep up with change. 
Wife wont and wants windows 7 and won't change. Said its ok. 
She's using a quad core and 7 pro is still good for about 4 yrs.


----------



## johnb35

Ok so I forgot that I had overclocked to 4.5ghz when I was on windows 7 and was running fine.  Upgraded to 10 and kept getting bluescreens and debugging tools came up inconclusive.  I removed the OC 2 days ago and haven't had any BSOD's since. Guess I'll have to start my OC procedure again.
@Punk


----------



## Darren

What chip do you have?


----------



## johnb35

Darren said:


> What chip do you have?



fx-8350


----------



## spirit

johnb35 said:


> Ok so I forgot that I had overclocked to 4.5ghz when I was on windows 7 and was running fine.  Upgraded to 10 and kept getting bluescreens and debugging tools came up inconclusive.  I removed the OC 2 days ago and haven't had any BSOD's since. Guess I'll have to start my OC procedure again.
> @Punk


So since you've been running at stock everything has been OK?


----------



## johnb35

Yes has been running fine since resetting back to stock.  Gonna have to pm Stranglehold again to help me.  I was happy with 4.5 ghz.  Can't figure out why 10 didn't like it when 7 was fine with it.


----------



## Darren

Might just have to start from scratch and work your way back up. Might have to do with how it handles power consumption.


----------



## johnb35

Anyone having an issue where when you have more then one tab or window open and all of a sudden one of the others become active for no apparent reason?  Has happened quite a few times now.


----------



## Punk

Updated the desktop this morning, no issues so far


----------



## johnb35

So here is the latest chart designating how much market share each operating system has. 

 

Windows 10 has surpassed XP as the second highest OS installed on computers today.  XP still has a higher share then 8.1 (XP just won't DIE!!!) and windows 7 still leads all others.  I kinda wished we could see what the market share would be if 10 wasn't available yet.


----------



## Cromewell

johnb35 said:


> Anyone having an issue where when you have more then one tab or window open and all of a sudden one of the others become active for no apparent reason? Has happened quite a few times now.


I've gotten the occasional edge issue, nothing major though. I don't think it's as good as chrome, but I'd say it's better than Firefox. Then again I hate Firefox, so I may be a bit biased


----------



## spirit

johnb35 said:


> So here is the latest chart designating how much market share each operating system has.
> 
> View attachment 6808
> 
> Windows 10 has surpassed XP as the second highest OS installed on computers today.  XP still has a higher share then 8.1 (XP just won't DIE!!!) and windows 7 still leads all others.  I kinda wished we could see what the market share would be if 10 wasn't available yet.


Nearly 12% of the market share in less than 7 months since release. I don't think any other Windows OS has done that for a long time! Mind you, the free upgrade probably helped.


----------



## martinhersey

I don't like WIN 10. It won't do some things I want it to do. At five deficiencies and counting. I press the buttons and nothing happens. At Voyagerfan99's suggestion, I am downgrading to WIN 8.1.


----------



## Okedokey

What things does it not do?


----------



## johnb35

martinhersey said:


> I don't like WIN 10. It won't do some things I want it to do. At five deficiencies and counting. I press the buttons and nothing happens. At Voyagerfan99's suggestion, I am downgrading to WIN 8.1.



If you did an actual upgrade instead of actually doing a fresh install then thats most likely your problem.  There are many issues when just upgrading to 10 from a previous OS but none when you actually do a clean install.


----------



## Intel_man

Or just even doing a full reset after your upgrade will normally solve your problems.


----------



## martinhersey

Intel_man said:


> Or just even doing a full reset after your upgrade will normally solve your problems.


What is a full reset?


----------



## Intel_man

martinhersey said:


> What is a full reset?


http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4130-reset-windows-10-a.html


----------



## martinhersey

johnb35 said:


> If you did an actual upgrade instead of actually doing a fresh install then thats most likely your problem.  There are many issues when just upgrading to 10 from a previous OS but none when you actually do a clean install.


I upgraded all three of my computers with the free upgrades from Microsoft. To get a bugfree O/S, I need to _buy_ a copy of WIN 10?


----------



## Intel_man

No, you don't need to buy a copy of Windows 10.

http://www.howtogeek.com/224342/how-to-clean-install-windows-10/


----------



## Darren

A reset is pretty much a built in clean install if you select the option to remove all of your files and settings. It will automatically activate Windows (for free) if you've already installed it on that machine so you have nothing to worry about there.


----------



## martinhersey

Thanks for the advice. Good advice it is. Something I can do without spending money.


----------



## Okedokey

Once youve installed and activated, all you need is a copy of Win 10 and you can fresh install no probs.


----------



## spirit

Windows 10 Mobile is running great on my Lumia 930 and even on my 925 which is not actually an officially supported device. I put Windows 10 Mobile on it last November back when you could put Windows 10 Mobile on pretty much any Windows Phone 8.1 device and I still continue to get all of the latest updates even though the 925 isn't supported - the 930 is supported though.

Am I the only one also using Windows 10 on a smartphone?


----------



## Darren

If any of you want a Steam skin for Windows 10, I just found this.


http://steamcommunity.com/groups/thresholdskin


----------



## Intel_man

I use Metro for Steam.

http://www.metroforsteam.com/


----------



## Jiniix

That looks amazing!  
Easy to install, any bugs?


----------



## Darren

Jiniix said:


> That looks amazing!
> Easy to install, any bugs?



Easy to install, download zipped folder and extract it into a directory in your Steam folder. Then you can add it via the settings in Steam.



Intel_man said:


> I use Metro for Steam.
> 
> http://www.metroforsteam.com/



I like the look of Metro too, more along the lines of the original UI.


----------



## spirit

^ Oh look it's me in the chat window in your screenshot! 

I have such an imaginative Steam name.


----------



## spirit

I like Windows 10 and I like Microsoft, I think everybody knows that. However, what I'm not too keen on is Microsoft literally forcing Windows 10 onto machines running 7 and 8.1. I don't have a problem with the little update that allows you to download and install Windows 10, that's fine, but what I do have a problem with is the fact that sometimes Windows 10 is automatically downloaded and installed without your consent even if you haven't reserved an upgrade or even opened that little 'Get Windows 10!' app that Windows Update downloads. I was in the middle of studying for an exam today using OneNote when suddenly my Surface Pro rebooted. It was annoying because I was busy and my Surface just rebooted without any warning whatsoever and then even more annoying as I saw it saying 'Preparing update for Windows 10' as it was shutting down. I had 10 on my old Surface (it's a first generation Pro, so the oldest Surface you can get) a while ago and it didn't work well on it so I put 8.1 back on it, so you can imagine how annoyed I was. I just held the power button in to shut the Surface down and then when I turned it on again and booted back into 8.1 I found a program to remove that little update completely and delete the 8GB installation image it downloaded onto my tiny 64GB SSD without my consent. This is the article I used to remove the forced upgrade: http://www.infoworld.com/article/29...-10-crapware-off-your-windows-7-or-81-pc.html

If I had reserved an upgrade for 10 and said 'yes, I want to install it!' then it would have been OK (but it would have been nice to have been notified before my Surface rebooted whilst I was in the middle of working!), but I hadn't. The free upgrade to 10 is nice, but only if you want it. If you don't want it then it's a nightmare! On my Surface I hadn't reserved any upgrades or done anything to confirm I wanted 10 on it and yet it still downloaded 10 and attempted to install it without my consent. I only have a 64GB SSD in that Surface too - if my SSD had been closer to full then there wouldn't have been enough space to even store the OS image.

/rant


----------



## Darren

Windows 10 is the best OS Microshaft has made. It is the absolute worst execution of a product release I've ever seen, OS or otherwise.


----------



## Intel_man

Lol Microshaft.

At least Windows 10 was free for upgrading users. Other than that... I would've stayed with Windows 7.


----------



## spirit

Darren said:


> Windows 10 is the best OS Microshaft has made. It is the absolute worst execution of a product release I've ever seen, OS or otherwise.


Basically.


----------



## johnb35

Yeah, I've gotten many calls from clients saying that during the night their machines automatically upgraded to 10.   Last call was just 2 days ago.  They shouldn't force it on everyone.  I can only hope that they don't come back and say that they are gonna start charging people that have windows 10 a monthly/yearly fee for using it.  If they don't pay, then Microsoft will disable important features via update.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Intel_man

That subscription fee idea for the OS is just... no. There's going to be a lot of pissed off people in the world if that were to happen. Imagine the amount of disgruntled people when Windows 8 came out and there was no start menu. Expect that... but probably 100 times worse.


----------



## PPBart

OK, after resisting all MS prompts and admonitions for months, I have this afternoon upgraded one of my PC's to Win 10.   Initially I planned to do the clean install, and prepared a flash drive; then I decided to first just do the upgrade and see how that worked.  Bottom line is that I'm surprised and pleased (at least, so far) with the result.  The upgrade installed without a hitch, everything seems to work, all my files are just where I left them, and the system seems to run a bit faster.  Guess now I need to figure out what's new and useful to me!

Edit:  system seems to run faster, but bootup is noticeably longer.  Not really a problem, guess it's simply due to more stuff having to be loaded.


----------



## Punk

PPBart said:


> OK, after resisting all MS prompts and admonitions for months, I have this afternoon upgraded one of my PC's to Win 10.   Initially I planned to do the clean install, and prepared a flash drive; then I decided to first just do the upgrade and see how that worked.  Bottom line is that I'm surprised and pleased (at least, so far) with the result.  The upgrade installed without a hitch, everything seems to work, all my files are just where I left them, and the system seems to run a bit faster.  Guess now I need to figure out what's new and useful to me!



I haven't fresh installed Win10 and so far no problem on my laptop, tablet and desktop


----------



## Darren

The weird kinks and issues I've come across with an upgrade over install will sometimes take a while to show up. If it works for ya, then great, but I definitely have had better experiences with a clean install.

Speaking of, once the the Anniversary is out I need to do another clean install. It's about that time again, and I've been having a lot of issues with USB devices just killing themselves.


----------



## Geoff

Punk said:


> I haven't fresh installed Win10 and so far no problem on my laptop, tablet and desktop


My work laptop was upgraded from Windows 8 > 8.1 > 10 and I haven't had any issues either, but on my home PC I always do a fresh install.


----------



## speedyink

I've had a few issues with clean and upgrade.  Although minimal issues with the clean install, most of mine are with upgrades.

Husbands Computer - Upgraded: 1) Playback devices randomly takes upwards of 30 seconds to open for some reason.  Lucky, because he uses this a lot to switch between speakers and headphones.
2) Explorer randomly just won't open. This means whenever you try to open any type of folder it just refuses to actually open.  Must either restart explorer or sometimes computer
3) Can't for the life of us get 3 monitors to output at once

My laptop - Upgraded: 1) Sluggish
2) Crashing was fairly common.  Ctl Alt Del was never working when I needed it
3) Wifi would never connect on startup.  With every boot I'd have to right click the wireless and click "troubleshoot problems" to get it to go again
4) Start menu sometimes didn't want to open, and every time it did open it was always with a delay.
-Probably a couple more things I don't remember

Same Laptop - Fresh Install + Install SSD:  1) Not sluggish anymore
2) Start menu still has a slight delay
3) Some random crashes, not near as often though


My Desktop - Upgraded: 1) Upgrades likes to fail, for some reason this one seems to upgrade at stupid times which causes this.
2) Some random crashes, but not terribly often
I'm afraid to fresh install this one, it came with Windows 8 and the activation seems to be very weird when I tried to clean install.  Ended up have to ghost the original drive when I installed my SSD.  I guess I'm old fashioned, I'm used to just installing and putting in my product key again.

Work Computer - Upgraded: 1) Sluggish
2) Windows Live Mail likes to just sit there at the splash screen sometimes.  Need to reboot computer to get it to work again
3) Google Chrome like to not open sometimes, but not near as bad as Mail.

I'm amazed at how much it affects each computer differently.  I know I'm forgetting tons of random stuff that's happened to these computers, but I've not had very good luck with the upgrade.  Doing a clean install definitely helps, but it's still not as stable as Windows 7 and 8 in my experience.


----------



## ruffspie

You can play more clips in windows 10


----------



## Darren

Anniversary update drops tomorrow. Just now really looking into the changes but biggest ones I'm looking forward to are dark theme, notification sync to Android, and bash command line (interdasting).

http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/25/12269736/microsoft-windows-10-anniversary-update-features-review


----------



## Jiniix

I hope Cortana still doesn't work in Denmark. Read that they've made it near impossible to disable, even with Group Policy editing.


----------



## Intel_man

I disabled Cortana... it's really not that difficult.


----------



## Jiniix

Are you running a non-insider preview? Smart people (Wendell from Tek Syndicate) said it's possible in the preview, but M$ would remove it in actual release. 
It's super easy to disable _now _for sure.


----------



## WhoX

The Anniversary update was kind of sterile. No colorful splash screens and such…bummer.

The Start Menu still sucks. Why doesn't Microsoft let the user create and control folders? I've still got folders left over from Windows 7 that I can't do crap with in 10 without using a third party app.

Windows Explorer. Somebody please slap the spit out of the Explorer developers. Why in heaven is there no dual pane option, every third party Explorer clone has this option. I thought for sure that Windows 10 would eventually change this.

Why mess with the sticky notes? What the hell happened to the original font? I can't just grab a note and move it anymore, now I have to click on the note and then grab it and move it. Annoying as hell.

I know, a lot of excessive whining...but I feel better though.


----------



## Darren

Just FYI, you can still activate Windows 10 using a Windows 7 (and probably 8/8.1) key still. Did it today.

So basically they just removed the "upgrade" functionality and nothing else has changed. Gotta do it manually.

Edit: We're testing out various activation means for still installing 10 so I'll update more tomorrow.


----------



## Jiniix

That's really nice, Darren. Hope it stays.
Yesterday I installed Windows 10 while offline -> chipset+LAN driver -> told it to stop installing device drivers automatically -> used DDU (also sets some settings to stop automatic driver installation) -> Installed latest AMD driver -> Connected LAN cable -> Windows Update starts installing an AMD driver...
I really can't fathom how they can be this bad at coding.


----------



## johnb35

Darren said:


> Just FYI, you can still activate Windows 10 using a Windows 7 (and probably 8/8.1) key still. Did it today.
> 
> So basically they just removed the "upgrade" functionality and nothing else has changed. Gotta do it manually.
> 
> Edit: We're testing out various activation means for still installing 10 so I'll update more tomorrow.



Probably has something to do with this here.
http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/1/12...ws-10-free-upgrade-still-available?yptr=yahoo


----------



## Darren

Jiniix said:


> That's really nice, Darren. Hope it stays.
> Yesterday I installed Windows 10 while offline -> chipset+LAN driver -> told it to stop installing device drivers automatically -> used DDU (also sets some settings to stop automatic driver installation) -> Installed latest AMD driver -> Connected LAN cable -> Windows Update starts installing an AMD driver...
> I really can't fathom how they can be this bad at coding.



I've not once ever had Windows 10 try and overwrite my AMD driver, except in the instance where the AMD driver was super old. Try downloading the driver FIRST, completely disconnect from the internet. DDU. Reboot. Install downloaded driver. Reboot. Reenable internet. That's how I've always done it if's needed. Now AMD just auto updates itself and prompts me to do an update as needed.



johnb35 said:


> Probably has something to do with this here.
> http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/1/12...ws-10-free-upgrade-still-available?yptr=yahoo



I'd heard about this also. Did nothing like that. Just a clean install using a flash drive, skip activation during install, and then type in Win7 product key once installed.

@spirit confirmed that activating a key still works even before I tried it.


----------



## Laquer Head

This Windows 10 Anniversary update worked on my PC no problem, but every other laptop/pc has failed at some point in the update to 1607 and reverted back to 1511


----------



## Darren

Today I had a machine at work that I did a clean install of Windows 7 on. Activated it with the key on the bottom of computer for Windows 7 Home Premium and then used a flash drive created with Windows Media Creation tool to upgrade 10. Still activated. So... yeah... you can still get Windows 10 no problem. The ONLY thing that seems to have been changed is the upgrade built into the OS. The upgrade I did today still kept all previous data and wasn't a clean wipe.


----------



## Jiniix

Darren said:


> Try downloading the driver FIRST, completely disconnect from the internet. DDU. Reboot. Install downloaded driver. Reboot. Reenable internet. That's how I've always done it if's needed. Now AMD just auto updates itself and prompts me to do an update as needed.



I always install everything that can be installed offline before even connecting the Windows 10 to the internet.
It might make "sense" to let Windows install it first via Update, then DDU. But what really made me mad is that I used the latest driver. Like, AMD stopped making new drivers for the HD 6950 since 15.7.1/16.2.1beta, so unless M$ had developed their own Win10 fix or something, they're just messing with me.


----------



## Darren

Jiniix said:


> I always install everything that can be installed offline before even connecting the Windows 10 to the internet.
> It might make "sense" to let Windows install it first via Update, then DDU. But what really made me mad is that I used the latest driver. Like, AMD stopped making new drivers for the HD 6950 since 15.7.1/16.2.1beta, so unless M$ had developed their own Win10 fix or something, they're just messing with me.



What driver version does W10 install? I totally get the annoyance/frustration with W10 overriding it but can't fault them too much if they're just reinstalling the same driver.


----------



## Jiniix

I didn't look at the version numbers of my own install, but I tried comparing the numbers from CCC to the release notes online, and the numbers weren't even the same formatting. But it still works, and I need it tomorrow (LAN PC ) so I left it be.


----------



## Darren

It probably threw off Windows by having an older card that isn't updated anymore. I've only ever had Windows install a video card driver when the current driver is the basic Microsoft Display Adapter. On both my Nvidia laptop and AMD desktop, MS never touched my GPU drivers when I updated them myself. Like I said, probably just weirded out by older cards.

Windows 10 is incredibly helpful for me at work with drivers. Instead of going to the manufacturer's website for driver updates I just tell Windows to search for update and then reboot once it's done. It has never NOT installed a driver I needed. I feel like for the vast majority of users (old people and tech illiterate), this is a massive help. For power users like us it can provide some weird quirks. Works a whole lot better than the drivers in 7 did, that's for sure.

Edit: Apparently the Anniversary Update can screw up your non OS drives. Seen a few people online mention it. I have a 120GB SSD with W10 on it, 1TB internal HDD for games and storage, and an external 1TB USB HDD for movies/shows and other random stuff that is always hooked up. My external is no longer seen by Windows Explorer and Disk Management simply marks it as "Unallocated". Don't want to deal with it now but hopefully all of my games and TV shows didn't just get nuked.

I'd advise disconnecting any external HDD's before you do the upgrade, or even anything apart from your OS drive.


----------



## Jiniix

Don't get me wrong, I love the much better native support and installation of LAN, Chipset, MEI, RST and audio drivers. These don't need to be updated often, but when I've told it "No (Your device might not work as expected)" and can't stop/hide/cancel an Update, it really makes me mad


----------



## Darren

Darren said:


> Edit: Apparently the Anniversary Update can screw up your non OS drives. Seen a few people online mention it. I have a 120GB SSD with W10 on it, 1TB internal HDD for games and storage, and an external 1TB USB HDD for movies/shows and other random stuff that is always hooked up. My external is no longer seen by Windows Explorer and Disk Management simply marks it as "Unallocated". Don't want to deal with it now but hopefully all of my games and TV shows didn't just get nuked.
> 
> I'd advise disconnecting any external HDD's before you do the upgrade, or even anything apart from your OS drive.


Update. My external HDD indeed got borked by the update, and I've seen several places online mention this problem. When you do the Anniversary Update I HIGHLY suggest disconnecting any other drives that aren't your OS drive. I just rolled back to the previous build (took about 4 minutes), and everything is still on my drive. Just disconnected it and doing the update again.


----------



## Punk

Yeah major update on my laptop this morning, can see people turning off their computers out of lack of patience... Took a good 30 mins to install.


----------



## johnb35

Anyone having any issues with the number lock after the anniversary
Update?  Mine won't turn on during boot up now, have to manually press it.


----------



## Intel_man

I noticed my keyboard's numberlock light is on... but it stays on. caps lock light is always off... frozen. 

Had to unplug and plug it back in to fix it. 

Hopefully this is just a one off problem. I'll make note of it again when I restart my computer next time.


----------



## Darren

Okay what the actual hell Microsoft. I had my external HDD totally disconnected before during and after the update. Plug it in. Still unallocated. HOW?!?!?!?!?


----------



## Intel_man

Darren said:


> Okay what the actual hell Microsoft. I had my external HDD totally disconnected before during and after the update. Plug it in. Still unallocated. HOW?!?!?!?!?


----------



## johnb35

Intel_man said:


> I noticed my keyboard's numberlock light is on... but it stays on. caps lock light is always off... frozen.
> 
> Had to unplug and plug it back in to fix it.
> 
> Hopefully this is just a one off problem. I'll make note of it again when I restart my computer next time.



It just did it again when I got home from work so I went into bios and disabled the number lock setting and re enabled it and booted into windows and back to normal again.  Weird.


----------



## Darren

Intel_man said:


>



I'm just copying what I need over to my laptop and going to reformat it. I just use it for saving movies and shows and a few big game backups. Thankfully my laptop is almost empty since I just wiped it semi-recently.

Edit: Format and creating new volume worked just fine. Dunno what MS did but they dun goofed as this is a pretty common problem based on my research.


----------



## Intel_man

I got lucky then... 3 of my anniversary upgrades have gone smoothly with no problems.


----------



## C4C

Wait... Anniversary upgrades? Seems all the ones that have taken forever have been smooth for myself...


----------



## Punk

Went smooth on all my machines too


----------



## strollin

Out of 8 machines I've upgraded so far, only 1 had an issue.  What's weird is that it was the only machine I did that came originally with Win 10.  Anyway, after the upgrade, the wifi adapter no longer worked.  Had to connect via ethernet and download a new driver in order to get it working.


----------



## Laquer Head

My 2nd newest, and most current laptop here only decided to do the update yesterday, so took 6 days for some reason, every other machine was day1 or day2..


----------



## Darren

Laquer Head said:


> My 2nd newest, and most current laptop here only decided to do the update yesterday, so took 6 days for some reason, every other machine was day1 or day2..



They roll out upgrades over 2 weeks. Those that originally installed 10 first, get updates first.


----------



## Laquer Head

Darren said:


> They roll out upgrades over 2 weeks. Those that originally installed 10 first, get updates first.



That is unacceptable..


----------



## Darren

Laquer Head said:


> That is unacceptable..


You should sue them then.


----------



## Geoff

Geoff said:


> Let the discussion of Windows 10 begin!
> 
> What are some of the features you're looking forward to most?


I can't believe I started this thread almost 2 years ago.


----------



## Laquer Head

Darren said:


> You should sue them then.



I'm not American though. In Canada we don't sue people and companies for frivolous things.


----------



## Origin Saint

Laquer Head said:


> I'm not American though. In Canada we don't sue people and companies for frivolous things.



Still relevant 


Origin Saint said:


>


----------



## Punk

Ok just updated my tablet. No issue whatsoever. My laptop had a wifi problem though when it first restarted it couldn't find any network. Restarted, which ended up in a BSOD and then all worked. That's the only "issue" I've witnessed so far.


----------



## Origin Saint

Punk said:


> Ok just updated my tablet.


Hey now wait a minute here, I thought free updates ended on 6/29/2016?  Aren't you 10 days late to be able to do that?  Or am I behind here?

EDIT:  #ContextIsImportant

My B, didn't read far enough back.  Anniversary update.  Got it.


----------



## beers

Origin Saint said:


> Hey now wait a minute here, I thought free updates ended on 6/29/2016? Aren't you 10 days late to be able to do that? Or am I behind here?


It probably still works but you could roll back your system clock and then update for free.


----------



## Darren

beers said:


> It probably still works but you could roll back your system clock and then update for free.



Or just do this. They don't check if you use "assistive technologies" so the upgrade is still free for anyone that wants it. 

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade


----------



## Jiniix

I just installed it on laptop yesterday (thank you MS for actually giving us direct version-specific ISO downloads again!)
Looks fine, they moved some more settings to the new Metro UI settings, which I can get used to I guess.
The most worrying by far would be "Active Hours", with a max of 12 hours. Outside these hours, Windows Update has no laws, and I couldn't fint any way to disable it via GUI.
Who does M$ think I am? A filthy casual? I have nightmares of a LAN party when Update would restart me at 3am every night. I want if OFF.


----------



## Intel_man

Jiniix said:


> The most worrying by far would be "Active Hours", with a max of 12 hours. Outside these hours, Windows Update has no laws, and I couldn't fint any way to disable it via GUI.
> Who does M$ think I am? A filthy casual? I have nightmares of a LAN party when Update would restart me at 3am every night. I want if OFF.


You running Windows 10 Pro?


----------



## Jiniix

Yep, exclusively. Not touching Home ever


----------



## Intel_man

Jiniix said:


> Yep, exclusively. Not touching Home ever


You can disable automatic Windows update on the Pro version among a bunch of other options. See the following link and scroll down to the section "Use Group Policy to Disable Automatic Updates — Professional Editions Only"

http://www.howtogeek.com/224471/how-to-prevent-windows-10-from-automatically-downloading-updates/


----------



## haxoc112

Intel_man said:


> You can disable automatic Windows update on the Pro version among a bunch of other options. See the following link and scroll down to the section "Use Group Policy to Disable Automatic Updates — Professional Editions Only"
> 
> http://www.howtogeek.com/224471/how-to-prevent-windows-10-from-automatically-downloading-updates/



Can you? Like completely? I'm trying to decide between 7, 8.1 (pro) because the fact you can't control your updates Really annoys me (I saw you can deal with most of the privacy issues with 3rd parties). So what do recommend as an alternative to w10? Forget the UI. performance, privacy stuff and how much control do you have over your system is more important in my opinion. Or do you recommend leaving Windows in favor of a Hackintosh? (I'm serious ) I put a lot of thinking into this subject (building a Hackintosh) after I saw the mess that is win10


----------



## Jiniix

Windows 10 with O&O ShutUp10 and Group Policy editing on the Anniversary Update is working wonders for me right now. A notification came and said updates were ready to be downloaded. It's been 2 days and several restarts, and it still hasn't downloaded them without my approval. As for privacy issues, Windows 7 and 8.1 are receiving the same telemetry collecting updates now, so you'd have to actively uninstall those as well. 
I'm just putting my trust in O&O ShutUp10 to take care of the non-GUI options.


----------



## haxoc112

So you think the anniversary update fixed/changed the forced updates?
Or it was like this from the beginning?
Also I saw you can't disabled cortana after the anniversary update, is that true?


----------



## Jiniix

You can still disable Cortana and make updates only notify, but not download automatically. http://www.askvg.com/tip-disable-cortana-and-bing-search-results-in-windows-10/ Method 4. Same place where you edit Update.


----------



## hamrecycling1

Geoff said:


> Let the discussion of Windows 10 begin!
> 
> What are some of the features you're looking forward to most?


My MAIN like is to have full integration for use with older applications.


----------



## beers

hamrecycling1 said:


> My MAIN like is to have full integration for use with older applications.


What does this even mean?


----------



## hamrecycling1

beers said:


> What does this even mean?



It means what it means? We currently have much older software applications that DO NOT WORK in windows 10?
The clear question of the topic is what we would like to see in windows 10.....


----------



## beers

You see the same behavior moving to XP, 7 or 8 depending on how old the application is.  I don't think I'd chalk it up to a Windows 10 feature or even anything that would ever be fixed for legacy applications.


----------



## hamrecycling1

Your right, possibly such a reason why people including myself that is still running XP, Vista and 7 Units.


----------



## Cromewell

Very likely, but at a certain point vendors need to stop support for older applications. Can you imagine the bloat if every OS kept everything that was ever supported?


----------



## Darren

Cromewell said:


> Very likely, but at a certain point vendors need to stop support for older applications. Can you imagine the bloat if every OS kept everything that was ever supported?


Pretty much any customer I see at work that is holding on to old OS's for software compatibility are using specialized programs to run tools like lathing machines, embroidery machines, and the like. Any other reason is pretty much just stubborness to not adapt to modern technology.


----------



## speedyink

Anyone having issues with explorer?  For some reason since Windows 10, Explorer keeps scrolling back to the top of the list.  Imagine you're looking through a thousand files, scrolling through looking for a specific one.  You stop for just a split second and BAM, it kicks you back to the top.  It's very, VERY annoying, and it happens all the time.  Is there a fix for this?


----------



## johnnyb58

speedyink said:


> Anyone having issues with explorer?  For some reason since Windows 10, Explorer keeps scrolling back to the top of the list.  Imagine you're looking through a thousand files, scrolling through looking for a specific one.  You stop for just a split second and BAM, it kicks you back to the top.  It's very, VERY annoying, and it happens all the time.  Is there a fix for this?


I don't use it at all and I wish I knew how to completely remove it from my computer.


----------



## voyagerfan99

johnnyb58 said:


> I don't use it at all and I wish I knew how to completely remove it from my computer.


I don't think you understand that Explorer runs the entire GUI shell, so you wouldn't really be able to do anything unless you want to use CMD to start everything.


----------



## johnnyb58

voyagerfan99 said:


> I don't think you understand that Explorer runs the entire GUI shell, so you wouldn't really be able to do anything unless you want to use CMD to start everything.


Thanks, I have tried to remove it even before Win 10 on Win 7 and found that out.


----------



## speedyink

Is the "Reset this PC" option basically the same as a clean install?

I decided to use this feature last week since I got a new video card so I figured it would be nice to start from scratch, like I'd been meaning to do for a while, to fix the crashing bug I had.   

Well, All went well, sucks to have to reinstall my programs again but that was expected.  What wasn't expected however, was Explorer crashing the next day.  I turned it on, clicked on a program on the task bar, then...nothing.  Not a good sign I thought, shut off the power and turned it back on and we're all good.  2 days later, turn it on, wanted to listen to a song on youtube, so click on Chrome....and nothing.  I do a bunch of clicking around all pissed off with no response, the mouse moved but I couldn't get a response from anything. 

So I guess Windows 10 really is just a buggy hunk of shit?  I've now clean installed on two computers now, the one that was running all slow never did speed up with a clean install from an iso image, it still takes forever and a day to turn on.  Now my home computer has been clean installed and it's still crashing soon after bootup.  I was going to try this on the other work computer that's hard locking for 10 seconds at a time turning the store music into a garbled mess once a day.  I think I've given this atrocious OS enough chances though, and now I doubt I can rely on a clean install fixing my problems. 

What gets me, is that everyone used to shit all over Windows Vista.  The main problem was the massive increase in minimum resource requirements, but at least if you had a decent enough computer it worked well without incident.  Why in the hell are people praising Windows 10 then?  I've had networking troubles, game performance loss, multiple types of crashes, slow to bootup on computers with HDDs, hard locks, and windows update issues.  This is just off the top of my head.  I used to be able to just use my computers, the amount of issues were small enough that I never got pissed off.  Windows 8 rearranged things, which kind of pissed me off, but at least it all worked.  I can't say the same for Windows 10.



/rant


----------



## Intel_man

speedyink said:


> Is the "Reset this PC" option basically the same as a clean install?


Basically yeah.


----------



## Calin

My only major problem with Win 10 at the moment is trying to download apps from the app store. It says "Error, see details" then tells me to turn on Windows Update. It is enabled in services.msc and I installed all updates the Update & Security tab in Settings could find. Everyone says that I need to turn on Windows Update in services.msc, but like I said I did that already...
This is unacceptable!


----------



## Geoff

Calin said:


> My only major problem with Win 10 at the moment is trying to download apps from the app store. It says "Error, see details" then tells me to turn on Windows Update. It is enabled in services.msc and I installed all updates the Update & Security tab in Settings could find. Everyone says that I need to turn on Windows Update in services.msc, but like I said I did that already...
> This is unacceptable!


I just tried downloading on my Windows 10 laptop and it downloaded just fine.  The experience is much better on a mobile phone though.


----------



## Calin

Geoff said:


> I just tried downloading on my Windows 10 laptop and it downloaded just fine.  The experience is much better on a mobile phone though.


Yes, but this happens with all appstore apps including games... What if I ever want to buy a game off the appstore?


----------



## Geoff

Calin said:


> Yes, but this happens with all appstore apps including games... What if I ever want to buy a game off the appstore?


Does Windows Update actually work though?  Maybe it failed somewhere.


----------



## johnb35

Is the startup type set to automatic, manual or disabled?  Also it may help to follow the ideas here.

It says windows 8 but should work for 10 as  well.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...ror-code/b14d144a-5432-46b9-ba01-f1228abf4ca1


----------



## Calin

johnb35 said:


> Is the startup type set to automatic, manual or disabled?  Also it may help to follow the ideas here.
> 
> It says windows 8 but should work for 10 as  well.
> 
> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...ror-code/b14d144a-5432-46b9-ba01-f1228abf4ca1


Automatic. I've done pretty much everything it says in that thread.
What I forgot to mention is that after trying to install an app, 6 events popped up in the Application tab in Event viewer. They state that there was a problem acquiring the license. I noticed that after it says "starting download" in the store, it says "acquiring license" for a split second then "Error, see details". Also, thanks for your help.


----------



## johnb35

If it was a problem with acquiring the license it would be a different error code.  0x803F7000.  Might want to post at one of the microsoft forums for help.  What are you running as far as antivirus/firewall software?  Firewall may be blocking it.


----------



## Calin

johnb35 said:


> If it was a problem with acquiring the license it would be a different error code.  0x803F7000.  Might want to post at one of the microsoft forums for help.  What are you running as far as antivirus/firewall software?  Firewall may be blocking it.


I run Malwarebytes. Firewall is off. I will try to ask at the MS forums, like you said, but I everytime I had a problem and posted it there, no one had a good solution.


----------



## johnb35

Have you by chance tried this?

Stop the Background Intelligent Transfer Service and the Windows Update service. Then, go to C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution and delete everything in that directory. Then restart both services and restart your computer.


----------



## Calin

I tried to stop BITS and then enable it again but without wiping the SoftwareDistribution folder.
I gave it a shot now and it still doesn't work


----------



## johnb35

You have to stop the update service too at the same time.

Also run the troubleshooter if you have done it yet.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...790db/run-the-troubleshooter-for-windows-apps


----------



## Calin

Yes, I stopped the update service aswell. And also ran the troubleshooter


----------



## Dimitri

I'm going to be installing 10 for the first time and I'm wondering which version to go for.

I see that home has fewer features than pro, is that liable to make it faster or use less memory?

On the other hand I see that pro allows to not install specific updates whereas home doesn't, which might be a reason to go pro.

Also, I see there are these N and KN versions, which, again, omit certain things. Would there be any performance benefits to using those versions?


----------



## beers

Dimitri said:


> I see that home has fewer features than pro, is that liable to make it faster or use less memory?


If you don't know what the features are then you likely don't utilize them or would notice a difference.

Pro just mainly adds integration into an active directory domain, RDP reachability, bitlocker and a couple of other enhancements like higher supported RAM (>128 GiB) and similar.

For what you'd be using them for it'd all be the same.  N and KN are for Europe and Korea respectively.


----------



## Dimitri

But would home, having fewer features, use less resources (I mean cpu or memory from something not running in the background or something like that)?


----------



## Jiniix

Home is 0.000001% faster. It's minimal.
However, I'm fairly sure Home doesn't allow Group Policy editing. So you can't set updates to manual instead of automatic.



johnb35 said:


> You have to stop the update service too at the same time.


I prefer just a quick reboot to Safe Mode, since you have to restart anyway.


----------



## Dimitri

Jiniix said:


> Home is 0.000001% faster. It's minimal.
> However, I'm fairly sure Home doesn't allow Group Policy editing. So you can't set updates to manual instead of automatic.
> 
> 
> I prefer just a quick reboot to Safe Mode, since you have to restart anyway.



Thanks!


----------



## strollin

The N and KN versions omit things like Windows Media Player and support for playing DVDs but there would not be any noticeable performance improvement.


----------



## Dimitri

I installed Win10 Pro N and now I'm trying to disable the automatic updating.

I'm following the group policy method (run and type in "mmc" -> add/remove snap in -> group policy object -> etc. etc.)

I follow the instructions to the end and when I close console 1 it says to me "Save console settings to Console 1?" None of the instructions I look at mention this and, obviously, I'm assuming I need to to tell it yes, but I'm wondering what does this do, does it save some kind of custom config file or what?



strollin said:


> The N and KN versions omit things like Windows Media Player and support for playing DVDs but there would not be any noticeable performance improvement.



Thanks!


----------



## Jiniix

Run: "gpedit.msc"
In the directory tree (or w/e it's called) to the left, find Microsoft. There's "Search" and "Update", where you can disable Cortana and Update respectively.


----------



## Dimitri

I don't see Microsoft in the tree.

EDIT: I found it, its under a different section.

Turns out I have "Allow admin to adjust settings" enabled already, but every source I find says: To disable Windows 10 forced updates, go to Control Panel and select System and Security->Windows Update

Trouble is I don't have Windows Update in System and Security.

I'm on Win10 Pro N.


----------



## strollin

Dimitri said:


> ... I'm on Win10 Pro N.


I don't think that's something that MS omitted from Windows in the N version, I believe only Media related items have been omitted.  MS has a "Media Pack" that you can install that pretty much installs the things that were omitted.  See here:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...ack-for-n-editions-of-windows-10-version-1607


----------



## Dimitri

strollin said:


> I don't think that's something that MS omitted from Windows in the N version, I believe only Media related items have been omitted.  MS has a "Media Pack" that you can install that pretty much installs the things that were omitted.  See here:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...ack-for-n-editions-of-windows-10-version-1607



That's right, the N business has to do only with media, so this problem is not related to that.


----------



## Jiniix

Just set it to something like "Download automatically but let user choose to install" in gpedit.msc. That's pretty much the closest you get to manual.
The new Settings (pretty much replacing Control Panel at this point) is terrible.


----------



## speedyink

Someones given me another computer with Windows 10 to look at, which has another different problem (surprise surprise)

From time to time the login screen doesn't show up or prompt a password, it just sits at a blank screen(Not sure if it's just when updates get installed, or if it's just the case with this time).  No input seems to register, blindly typing in the password and pressing enter does nothing, and ctl alt del does nothing.  This seems to be a known problem with old versions of the OS, but this one is entirely up to date.  Luckily a hard reboot usually leads to it booting properly, but these are computers used in a business setting, it's not acceptable to have to do that.

Is there anyone else who's encountered this and has something for me to try?  I went through all the start-up options and they're basically set to default.  I've done a major clean and gotten rid of many unnecessary applications (or 'apps' I guess I should say..).  I know this is probably a long shot, but hey, worth a try.

Thanks


----------



## johnb35

Clean install of 10 or was it upgraded from previous OS?  Clean installs always seem to knock out certain types of bugs.


----------



## Darren

For the record, I can confirm that you can clone drives with an unactivated W10 instaled on them and activate each machine individually with a Win 7 OEM product key that hasn't been upgraded to 10 before. Had 3 different sets of Dells I did this with and had no issues activating or cloning, just make sure BIOS settings match and you're good.


----------



## speedyink

johnb35 said:


> Clean install of 10 or was it upgraded from previous OS?  Clean installs always seem to knock out certain types of bugs.



I'm going to assume upgrade, considering there's a Windows 8 sticker on the bottom, and I really don't think the guys at the shop are technical savvy enough to do a clean install =P
Really didn't want to have to fresh install, but it's probably the only option for such an intermittent issue..  It looks like there's not a ton of specialty software for the business so it should't be so bad..


----------



## Darren

speedyink said:


> Someones given me another computer with Windows 10 to look at, which has another different problem (surprise surprise)
> 
> From time to time the login screen doesn't show up or prompt a password, it just sits at a blank screen(Not sure if it's just when updates get installed, or if it's just the case with this time).  No input seems to register, blindly typing in the password and pressing enter does nothing, and ctl alt del does nothing.  This seems to be a known problem with old versions of the OS, but this one is entirely up to date.  Luckily a hard reboot usually leads to it booting properly, but these are computers used in a business setting, it's not acceptable to have to do that.
> 
> Is there anyone else who's encountered this and has something for me to try?  I went through all the start-up options and they're basically set to default.  I've done a major clean and gotten rid of many unnecessary applications (or 'apps' I guess I should say..).  I know this is probably a long shot, but hey, worth a try.
> 
> Thanks



Just now actually read this. I had this on a customer's computer a couple weeks ago, was an upgraded Win7 machine to 10. I attempted a system restore and after almost finishing the restore it said it had failed. Login screen was back though the next time I booted it up and it worked for the next day we had it and I haven't heard from the customer so I assume that fixed it. IIRC there was a Windows update that freaked it out and we just rolled it back when we did the system restore and then updated it again.

If there's an 8 sticker on the bottom than fresh install would just activate automatically I think.


----------



## johnb35

There are many of times system restore has actually worked to fix something, when in fact it says it has failed.  Not sure what it failed on though.


----------



## Darren

johnb35 said:


> There are many of times system restore has actually worked to fix something, when in fact it says it has failed.  Not sure what it failed on though.


Yeah this isn't the first time I've seen that happen. It obviously does something even if it throws an error code at the end.


----------



## speedyink

Well I talked to the guy at work who uses it, and he's ok with me doing a clean install.  He said he wants Windows 8 back on it though so I guess that's what I'll be doing.


----------



## johnb35

Unfortunately you won't be able to reactivate windows 8 if the upgrade to 10 was more then 30 days ago.  Windows 8 license actually becomes a windows 10 license and you can't go back.


----------



## johnb35

So.  It seems the latest windows 10 iso file is bigger then what a regular DVD will hold.  I just downloaded it now and its too big, I did it twice in fact just to make sure.   So now your only option is using a usb drive or burning it to a bluray dvd.  What the hell?


----------



## Darren

johnb35 said:


> So.  It seems the latest windows 10 iso file is bigger then what a regular DVD will hold.  I just downloaded it now and its too big, I did it twice in fact just to make sure.   So now your only option is using a usb drive or burning it to a bluray dvd.  What the hell?


As of when? I have a personal drive I keep a W10 installer on and it's 4.1GB from when I made it in January.


----------



## johnb35

As of an hour ago.


----------



## Jiniix

Did you make a 32 _and _64 bit ISO?


----------



## johnb35

Jiniix said:


> Did you make a 32 _and _64 bit ISO?


Nope, just 64 bit.  I believe if creating both its almost 6 gb.  This is barely under 5.  I'll post file size when I get home.


----------



## Jiniix

Damn, all that data collecting takes space 

Edit: Not sure if insider builds are different, just looked since I'm slacking at work


----------



## johnb35

Here is the difference between downloading it in August and yesterday.


----------



## Intel_man

I can confirm that the current download for Windows 10 64bit from the media tool is 4,641,536 KB.


----------



## speedyink

johnb35 said:


> Unfortunately you won't be able to reactivate windows 8 if the upgrade to 10 was more then 30 days ago.  Windows 8 license actually becomes a windows 10 license and you can't go back.



Well isn't that dandy.

On another note, anyone having issues with Windows Explorer working extreeeemely slowly from time to time?  It seems to be drive specific, like right now, my F: is taking like 10-30 seconds to navigate through folders, where C: is just fine.  And it's not just file navigation, scrolling is very delayed, clicking on items causes delay, it's like the whole Explorer window is running on a Pentium 75mhz.  Reboot and bam, it's all good again.  This is the second time it's happened.  I don't think it's a failing drive either, because once I do find like say a high bit rate 1080p blueray rip, it plays just fine.  Also like I said, a reboot will clear it up for a while until it randomly happens again weeks later.

I've fresh installed on this computer so it's not an upgrade issue.


----------



## johnb35

I would run a diagnostic on that specific drive.


----------



## speedyink

johnb35 said:


> I would run a diagnostic on that specific drive.



Ok I've done a test with the seagate tool (SMART test) and it passes.  An error scan in windows comes up with nothing, and an error scan in HD Tune comes up as 0.0% damaged blocks.

If there's another tool I should be using let me know.


----------



## Darren

SMART tests are kinda useless and a hard drive can be failing long before it throws a SMART error. Run the Seatools long generic test for a thorough check of every sector. Windows check isn't great either, although I haven't heard of HD Tune


----------



## Jiniix

johnb35 said:


> Here is the difference between downloading it in August and yesterday.


What build is it? I have both 14393.0 and 14393.479 ISOs, which are around 4GB exact. The latter downloaded this weekend.


----------



## speedyink

Darren said:


> SMART tests are kinda useless and a hard drive can be failing long before it throws a SMART error. Run the Seatools long generic test for a thorough check of every sector. Windows check isn't great either, although I haven't heard of HD Tune



I didn't see a whole lot of info when it finished, just 'Long Generic - Pass'.  Luckily this program seems to keep the logs, so if there's something else I should have looked at I should be able to bring it up without rescanning.

Like I said, I think it's something with Windows.  I did some googling and stumbled across this post which also explains the problem I was having with Explorer jumping to the top of the page all the time:
https://www.tenforums.com/general-support/7009-file-explorer-extremely-slow-unstable.html

Which contained this suggestion:
https://www.howtogeek.com/219936/how-to-disable-quick-access-in-file-explorer-on-windows-10/

Gonna try it out, hope that clears both those issues.  Drives me nuts when Explorer jumps to the top on me, so really hope this fixes it!


----------



## johnb35

Jiniix said:


> What build is it? I have both 14393.0 and 14393.479 ISOs, which are around 4GB exact. The latter downloaded this weekend.


I actually used this to a fresh install the other day, I just now checked what build it is and its 14393.693.  So unless there was an update after I installed than I don't know what build it was.


----------



## Jiniix

That's the most current version atm. .576 -> .693 should be a 1GB update, as far as I can see. So it makes sense.


----------



## Dimitri

I'm having troulbe with Win10 updates.

I tried the group policy method to change the update policy and I set it to "allow local admin to change..." and I click update (so that it would take) but it still says "updates will be downloaded automatically" and I can't change squat.

Then I set it to "notify me" and it STILL says "updates will be downloaded automaticall."

I even tried to set it to "notify" with Winaero Tweaker, but even that didn't take.

HOWEVER, some days ago I got notified that this update is available:

Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool for Windows 8, 8.1, 10 and Windows Server 2012, 2012 R2, 2016 x64 Edition - February 2017 (KB890830).

And it WASN'T installed automatically. Matter of fact, I've been avoiding it for a while now  Periodically I'll get a message that says something like "Updates need to be installed" but I can close it.

Trouble is, there's no way for me to just dismiss this update and tell Win to not ever download it, furthermore, I imagine that when ANOTHER update comes, one that I DO need and want, I won't be able to install it without also installing this thing I don't want.


----------



## johnb35

Dimitri said:


> I'm having troulbe with Win10 updates.
> 
> I tried the group policy method to change the update policy and I set it to "allow local admin to change..." and I click update (so that it would take) but it still says "updates will be downloaded automatically" and I can't change squat.
> 
> Then I set it to "notify me" and it STILL says "updates will be downloaded automaticall."
> 
> I even tried to set it to "notify" with Winaero Tweaker, but even that didn't take.
> 
> HOWEVER, some days ago I got notified that this update is available:
> 
> Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool for Windows 8, 8.1, 10 and Windows Server 2012, 2012 R2, 2016 x64 Edition - February 2017 (KB890830).
> 
> And it WASN'T installed automatically. Matter of fact, I've been avoiding it for a while now  Periodically I'll get a message that says something like "Updates need to be installed" but I can close it.
> 
> Trouble is, there's no way for me to just dismiss this update and tell Win to not ever download it, furthermore, I imagine that when ANOTHER update comes, one that I DO need and want, I won't be able to install it without also installing this thing I don't want.


The only version of 10 that you can set not to install updates is windows 10 pro.


----------



## Intel_man

johnb35 said:


> The only version of 10 that you can set not to install updates is windows 10 pro.


Do you know if the Educational version has that option as well?


----------



## johnb35

From this article it seems pro, education and enterprise updates can be disabled.  I thought it was just pro.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3085136/windows/two-ways-to-control-or-stop-windows-10-updates.html


----------



## Intel_man

Good to know as I get 2 copies of the educational Win 10 key for being at a post secondary institute.


----------



## Dimitri

johnb35 said:


> The only version of 10 that you can set not to install updates is windows 10 pro.



Sorry, I should have said, I have Win10 Pro N.


----------



## voyagerfan99

Dimitri said:


> Sorry, I should have said, I have Win10 Pro N.


The N doesn't matter. That just means Windows Media Player is not installed by default.

http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/what-are-windows-10-n-and-kn-editions


----------



## Dimitri

So... fellas, anyone got any ideas on this one 



Dimitri said:


> I'm having troulbe with Win10 updates.
> 
> I tried the group policy method to change the update policy and I set it to "allow local admin to change..." and I click update (so that it would take) but it still says "updates will be downloaded automatically" and I can't change squat.
> 
> Then I set it to "notify me" and it STILL says "updates will be downloaded automaticall."
> 
> I even tried to set it to "notify" with Winaero Tweaker, but even that didn't take.
> 
> HOWEVER, some days ago I got notified that this update is available:
> 
> Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool for Windows 8, 8.1, 10 and Windows Server 2012, 2012 R2, 2016 x64 Edition - February 2017 (KB890830).
> 
> And it WASN'T installed automatically. Matter of fact, I've been avoiding it for a while now  Periodically I'll get a message that says something like "Updates need to be installed" but I can close it.
> 
> Trouble is, there's no way for me to just dismiss this update and tell Win to not ever download it, furthermore, I imagine that when ANOTHER update comes, one that I DO need and want, I won't be able to install it without also installing this thing I don't want.


----------



## Okedokey

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3014600/microsoft-windows/how-to-handle-windows-10-updates.html


----------



## Dimitri

Okedokey said:


> http://www.computerworld.com/article/3014600/microsoft-windows/how-to-handle-windows-10-updates.html



This doesn't mention the group policy method that I'm using, it only talks about deferring updates.


----------



## timekiller89

Windows 10 is a very nice OS, I feel the UI is rather appealing to my eye, and it works with most programs I use absolutely fine. It's also fast and works relatively well, although not as well-optimised as Mac OS, I feel that they've done a better job with optimisation here than Windows 7. It's definitely a great OS that will become one of the best in some time.

Although this is not related to the current train of discussion, I wanted to dump my thoughts on the OS here.


----------



## Jiniix

With the recent leaks of ads in the file manager, I'm not having good hopes. Even if it's just for M$ products, such as OneDrive etc. Get that sheet away from me. I paid for this.. 

Edit: Just saw these:









This guy was part of developing the kernel for Windows 8.1, the actual good part


----------



## Calin

So I just installed the Creators Update, and I'm happy to say that all the Windows Store apps work fine now. Before I was getting "Error, see details" when trying to install an app. It was driving me nuts and I did all I found online and it didn't help me. But updating to the Creators Update did. Thank God.


----------



## johnb35

Calin said:


> So I just installed the Creators Update, and I'm happy to say that all the Windows Store apps work fine now. Before I was getting "Error, see details" when trying to install an app. It was driving me nuts and I did all I found online and it didn't help me. But updating to the Creators Update did. Thank God.


I just got a popup about the creators update and wanting to verify my privacy information, so I guess I'll be getting any day now.  

Also want to let everyone know that i bought windows 10 OEM 64bit at Fry's yesterday for a build for a client of mine and realized that you now have to scratch off the area above the key.  DO NOT think you have to pull up on the tape as you'll destroy the sticker and key.  Think god I stopped before destroying it.  I inadvertently scratched the gray area and realized thats what it was.  There were no directions on how to see the key.


----------



## speedyink

So windows is trying to install the creators update, but twice now it botched up my windows installation.  It ends up having to restore the previous version, and then I get the damn popup to update again.  I really hope I'm not stuck in an endless loop >_<


----------



## Darren

speedyink said:


> So windows is trying to install the creators update, but twice now it botched up my windows installation.  It ends up having to restore the previous version, and then I get the damn popup to update again.  I really hope I'm not stuck in an endless loop >_<


Are you running an upgraded copy of 10 or a clean install?


----------



## speedyink

Darren said:


> Are you running an upgraded copy of 10 or a clean install?



It was upgraded, but I did that restore option in settings that's suppose to basically reinstall Windows.  It's not complaining at me to update anymore, maybe it managed to do it one night.. Actually I don't think it did, I don't seem to have some of the new things it changes.  Maybe it will leave me along for a while at least =P


----------



## Darren

speedyink said:


> It was upgraded, but I did that restore option in settings that's suppose to basically reinstall Windows.  It's not complaining at me to update anymore, maybe it managed to do it one night.. Actually I don't think it did, I don't seem to have some of the new things it changes.  Maybe it will leave me along for a while at least =P


Honestly as much issue as you're having just create a bootable USB and nuke the damn thing. Windows 10 CAN be really weird about updates and issues like that but a truly clean install with some level of maintenance is pretty painfree in the updating process.


----------



## speedyink

Darren said:


> Honestly as much issue as you're having just create a bootable USB and nuke the damn thing. Windows 10 CAN be really weird about updates and issues like that but a truly clean install with some level of maintenance is pretty painfree in the updating process.



I would love to nuke it and start fresh, just worried about activation.  Windows 8 made things really screwy, I don't have a key I can just type in.  I remember when I threw an SSD in there for my C: I reinstalled windows 8 from fresh thinking the activation was tied to the mobo or something.  Apparantly not, cause I couldn't get the damn thing to activate.  I'm pretty sure I ended up cloning the original hard drive to the SSD or something dumb like that.  
I refuse to pay money for Windows 10, so if it ends up not activating I'd probably go back to Windows 7.  But then no DX12, or Ryzen support for the future, so AARG.  Microsoft really put anyone who doesn't want Windows 10 between a rock and a hard place >_<


----------



## Darren

speedyink said:


> I would love to nuke it and start fresh, just worried about activation.  Windows 8 made things really screwy, I don't have a key I can just type in.  I remember when I threw an SSD in there for my C: I reinstalled windows 8 from fresh thinking the activation was tied to the mobo or something.  Apparantly not, cause I couldn't get the damn thing to activate.  I'm pretty sure I ended up cloning the original hard drive to the SSD or something dumb like that.
> I refuse to pay money for Windows 10, so if it ends up not activating I'd probably go back to Windows 7.  But then no DX12, or Ryzen support for the future, so AARG.  Microsoft really put anyone who doesn't want Windows 10 between a rock and a hard place >_<


If 10 is active now then it will be active when you reinstall it on the same hardware.


----------



## speedyink

Darren said:


> If 10 is active now then it will be active when you reinstall it on the same hardware.



Really?  Well I suppose it's worth a shot.  From Windows XP - 7 I reinstalled a fresh windows image on any new PC me or someone I knew bought.  Just seemed to start them off on a good foot.  Then I got this Windows 8 PC, did the same while upgrading with an SSD, and it just refuses to activate.  It kind of made me leery of messing with newer, keyless Windows installs.  So I definitely like the idea of starting from scratch.  Will give it a shot when I got a bit of spare time.


----------



## Darren

speedyink said:


> Really?  Well I suppose it's worth a shot.  From Windows XP - 7 I reinstalled a fresh windows image on any new PC me or someone I knew bought.  Just seemed to start them off on a good foot.  Then I got this Windows 8 PC, did the same while upgrading with an SSD, and it just refuses to activate.  It kind of made me leery of messing with newer, keyless Windows installs.  So I definitely like the idea of starting from scratch.  Will give it a shot when I got a bit of spare time.


Ya you're way too worried about it I think.  I'm using an OEM key of Windows 7 Home Premium I bought on Newegg in 2011. It's seen 3 motherboards, 3 CPU's, 5 GPU's, and probably 10 reinstalls over 3 different drives. Ever since I installed 10 it's activated automatically every time.


----------



## speedyink

Darren said:


> Ya you're way too worried about it I think.  I'm using an OEM key of Windows 7 Home Premium I bought on Newegg in 2011. It's seen 3 motherboards, 3 CPU's, 5 GPU's, and probably 10 reinstalls over 3 different drives. Ever since I installed 10 it's activated automatically every time.



Well there ya go, you're a lucky bastard who started with a Windows 7 key =P  Like I said, with Windows 8 OEM keys got all weird.


----------



## Darren

speedyink said:


> Well there ya go, you're a lucky bastard who started with a Windows 7 key =P  Like I said, with Windows 8 OEM keys got all weird.


I also install Windows on machines that we sell at work. I've installed and activated hundreds of copies of Windows 10 over the past 9 months. Including ones that came with 8.


----------



## speedyink

Darren said:


> I also install Windows on machines that we sell at work. I've installed and activated hundreds of copies of Windows 10 over the past 9 months. Including ones that came with 8.



Well it definitely should work then.  Been too busy lately to do it to my machine.  Got my grandpas laptop, he wants 8.1 back on it.. that should be fun >_<  Pretty sure that won't work as the key gets turned into a 10 key, but we'll see.  I have to try so I can say I did, then if it doesn't work I'll tell him if he wants 8.1 he'll have to buy it again.


----------



## Darren

speedyink said:


> Well it definitely should work then.  Been too busy lately to do it to my machine.  Got my grandpas laptop, he wants 8.1 back on it.. that should be fun >_<  Pretty sure that won't work as the key gets turned into a 10 key, but we'll see.  I have to try so I can say I did, then if it doesn't work I'll tell him if he wants 8.1 he'll have to buy it again.


For the love of God don't let that man pay for Windows 8.1 twice. Once is bad enough.

You are correct though, he's gonna be stuck with 10. I truly believe people will like 10 better than 8.1 once they get used to it as it functions way more along the lines of 7 than 8/8.1. Maybe having to rebuy 8 will motivate him to stick with 10.


----------



## johnb35

If your grandpa doesn't like the start menu or the way the task bar looks you can download classic shell so you get a windows 7 start menu and then you can setup quick launch and remove icons and cortana from task bar.  Many customizations to look like windows 7.  Just got to ask and research.


----------



## speedyink

Darren said:


> For the love of God don't let that man pay for Windows 8.1 twice. Once is bad enough.
> 
> You are correct though, he's gonna be stuck with 10. I truly believe people will like 10 better than 8.1 once they get used to it as it functions way more along the lines of 7 than 8/8.1. Maybe having to rebuy 8 will motivate him to stick with 10.



I know, it's a painful thought... I honestly thought he would have liked 10 better, given it's more like older Windows, but he says he got used to 8.1 when this computer came with it, and now that 10 is on there, he can't remember how to use old Windows.  It's weird, I know...but I didn't ask   I'll let him know that it can't be done, we'll see what he says.



johnb35 said:


> If your grandpa doesn't like the start menu or the way the task bar looks you can download classic shell so you get a windows 7 start menu and then you can setup quick launch and remove icons and cortana from task bar.  Many customizations to look like windows 7.  Just got to ask and research.



I even asked him if he wanted Windows 7 on there, and he said no.  He really like 8.1 for some reason.  Like, the full start menu screen.  Actually.. maybe that's the ticket.  Doesn't Windows 10 have a full screen start mode?


----------



## Darren

speedyink said:


> I know, it's a painful thought... I honestly thought he would have liked 10 better, given it's more like older Windows, but he says he got used to 8.1 when this computer came with it, and now that 10 is on there, he can't remember how to use old Windows.  It's weird, I know...but I didn't ask   I'll let him know that it can't be done, we'll see what he says.
> 
> 
> 
> I even asked him if he wanted Windows 7 on there, and he said no.  He really like 8.1 for some reason.  Like, the full start menu screen.  Actually.. maybe that's the ticket.  Doesn't Windows 10 have a full screen start mode?



Type into Cortana "Use Start full screen". I know how older folks can be about changing OS's.


----------



## speedyink

Darren said:


> Type into Cortana "Use Start full screen". I know how older folks can be about changing OS's.



Awesome, thanks!  Dunno why I didn't think of that before


----------



## johnb35

The ISO for windows 10 is back to being only 3.5 gb, so it will fit on a dvd.  Just downloaded it a bit ago.


----------



## Darren

Thread necro, but might be worth checking for some of you. It would seem the Microsoft store sometimes duplicates apps on the hard drive, taking up extra space.

I had Forza 7 installed on my 525GB SSD. Being a 100GB game this was a big usage of my space. When I bought Forza Horizon 4 today I realized I'd need to do some shuffling to fit it on to my nearly full SSD. Using WinDirStat I discovered that there were 2 folders in the WindowsApps directory, each 98.5GB and for Forza 7. I uninstalled it via Apps and Programs and one disappeared but not the other. Since the WindowsApps folder is hidden, blocked, and the owner hidden, I couldn't manually delete it. I had to manually make myself the owner for the entire WindowsApps folder (with inheritance) before I could get rid of the Forza 7 directory. Even then it still didn't let me delete all of it, about 2GB remains.

Now for a lot of apps this isn't a big deal but when a single game is taking up 40 percent of my SSD, something's not quite right. Glad I noticed it. Might be a good idea to run WinDirStat if you have any bigger games thru the Windows Store. Also, you'll need to run it as Admin because as a standard user WinDirStat misses all the hidden and system files.

Sidenote: I believe that File Explorer now supports dark mode, which was one of the single biggest things I wanted out of W10 since day one. Looks pretty solid, I've been running it for a month or two on an Insider build.


----------



## Jiniix

I had all my machines running 1607 LTSB, which is the perfect Windows 10 version imo. But I tried going from 1607 LTSB to 1803 Pro on all my Windows machines, because I wanted GPU% in Task Manager and FM Dark Mode eventually.
I'm going back to LTSB soon, already re-installed all machines except my main rig. Having a "Pro" version of Windows 10 and being forced to install Disney Magic Kingdom and Candy Crush is beyond unacceptable to me. I literally had to bork Store Apps to the point where my calculator app no longer works, and if I open the Start Menu, I can still see the ongoing 0% installs of all that crapware.
You no longer buy a Windows license, you rent it. I don't like that. 
I really wanted to go back to Windows 7, but I don't want to install third party software to get non-active mouseover scrolling, which I've basicly become dependent on. So LTSB it is again.


----------



## UnholyVision

Jiniix said:


> You no longer buy a Windows license, you rent it. I don't like that.
> I really wanted to go back to Windows 7, but I don't want to install third party software to get non-active mouseover scrolling, which I've basicly become dependent on. So LTSB it is again.


Yeah, that's the sad part of Windows now. The best option if you're not tied into the Windows ecosystem to much and willing to change up a bit GNU/Linux is one of the best options to get that Windows 7 feel back. You can even make it look the same if that is your preference. (https://www.noobslab.com/2014/04/make-your-ubuntulinux-mint-look-like.html)


----------



## Darren

Jiniix said:


> *You no longer buy a Windows license, you rent it. I don't like that.*



Say what now? That's not true. Microsoft is selling "Windows as a service" or something like that but that's for businesses that basically lease/rent out a machine that has Windows on it.

Thought they'd made it pretty clear conventional licenses weren't going anywhere but maybe I missed something.


----------



## Jiniix

UnholyVision said:


> Yeah, that's the sad part of Windows now. The best option if you're not tied into the Windows ecosystem to much and willing to change up a bit GNU/Linux is one of the best options to get that Windows 7 feel back. You can even make it look the same if that is your preference. (https://www.noobslab.com/2014/04/make-your-ubuntulinux-mint-look-like.html)


Only thing tying me to Windows is game performance. Most of my games work decent on Linux (Prefer XUbuntu or Mint), but some don't work at all.



Darren said:


> Say what now? That's not true. Microsoft is selling "Windows as a service" or something like that but that's for businesses that basically lease/rent out a machine that has Windows on it.
> 
> Thought they'd made it pretty clear conventional licenses weren't going anywhere but maybe I missed something.


I wasn't actually talking about Windows as a Service  More the fact that you have no control over your "own" operating system anymore. If I pay $199 (I obviously don't, but stick with me) I want to NOT be forced to have crappy games and archive-handlers etc. jammed down my throat.


----------



## UnholyVision

Jiniix said:


> Only thing tying me to Windows is game performance. Most of my games work decent on Linux (Prefer XUbuntu or Mint), but some don't work at all.


Which games, what hardware, which drivers, and have you used Proton?

Edit: I guess I can look at your signature for the hardware. xD ASUS GTX 780 3GB DCII 941MHz/6008MHz


----------



## Darren

Jiniix said:


> Only thing tying me to Windows is game performance. Most of my games work decent on Linux (Prefer XUbuntu or Mint), but some don't work at all.
> 
> 
> I wasn't actually talking about Windows as a Service  More the fact that you have no control over your "own" operating system anymore. If I pay $199 (I obviously don't, but stick with me) I want to NOT be forced to have crappy games and archive-handlers etc. jammed down my throat.



Just be glad you're not in charge of upgrading probably 300ish machines from Windows 7 to 10 and all the fun that involves.  I've been learning group policy to strong arm certain aspects of 10 like the bloated games, mess of a start menu, and other such weirdness as it crops up.



UnholyVision said:


> Which games, what hardware, which drivers, and have you used Proton?
> 
> Edit: I guess I can look at your signature for the hardware. xD ASUS GTX 780 3GB DCII 941MHz/6008MHz



I have been tempted to try dual booting just to see how it is these days, I haven't tried gaming with Linux in a few years now. Used to use it for school/programming. Unfortunately there's no getting around the fact that gaming is easier and more stable on Windows. Yes it's much easier to game on Linux than in years passed but there's a lot to be said for native OS support when all you're trying to do is relax and unwind with a game. Particularly when Microsoft publishes them like Forza.


----------



## UnholyVision

Darren said:


> 1)I have been tempted to try dual booting just to see how it is these days, I haven't tried gaming with Linux in a few years now.
> 
> 2) Unfortunately there's no getting around the fact that gaming is easier and more stable on Windows.
> 
> 3) Yes it's much easier to game on Linux than in years passed but there's a lot to be said for native OS support when all you're trying to do is relax and unwind with a game.
> 
> 4) Particularly when Microsoft publishes them like Forza.


1) That is something everyone should do. Specially in this day and age where Linux gaming is quiet easy and much easier with things like Proton. The official version of Wine built into the Steam client. Which runs about 90% of games. With a possible launch option on some or executable tweak, but usually not that hard.

2) Not at all. On GNU/Linux you don't even have to wait to play your game after installing it in Steam. No first time setup or any of that crap. Native games install in an instant and off you go.

3) Have you even looked at what is native on Linux? We have Deus Ex games, Dirt series games, Lara Croft games, Shadow of Mordor, and a lot of titles for the OS. Mind you some are binary wrapped, but binary wrapped is not WINE in the slightest, but honestly with how WINE + DXVK is I wouldn't care.

4) https://store.steampowered.com/app/537450/ReCore_Definitive_Edition/ <-- Microsoft Studios title





 <--- Steam Proton running the game like it was nothing. With D3D11 support. (Skip to about 1:18 to see gameplay footage).


----
Not try to come off as brass or rude. It just seems like you have been out of touch with what is happening in Linux. Nor am I trying to say everything is perfect. Because AMD has a long ways to go even. Yet if you're Nvidia carding it up you're usually pretty solid. Specially when using the latest drivers. (It's just the Penguin has had a fire light under it and things are changing rapidly. )


----------



## Jiniix

UnholyVision said:


> Which games, what hardware, which drivers, and have you used Proton?
> 
> Edit: I guess I can look at your signature for the hardware. xD ASUS GTX 780 3GB DCII 941MHz/6008MHz


Actually quite old signature. I've since moved on to a Ryzen 1800X PC, then gave that to my brother and bought a i7-8700K based setup, along with a 1080 ti. Might get around to update the sig.
The problematic games are GTA: V, which doesn't run _at all _(and I also don't have the Steam version, so only WINE can be tried, not Proton yet) and World of Warcraft.
Right now I can't even install the Battle.net Client, and that type of future insecurity is not something I'm interested in.



Darren said:


> Just be glad you're not in charge of upgrading probably 300ish machines from Windows 7 to 10 and all the fun that involves.  I've been learning group policy to strong arm certain aspects of 10 like the bloated games, mess of a start menu, and other such weirdness as it crops up.
> Thing is that the Group Policy on Pro doesn't respect the games. Same with metadata collecting. Only Enterprise or Server respects those settings.
> But yeah, it's quite a process. We've just gone through it here at work.
> 
> 
> I have been tempted to try dual booting just to see how it is these days, I haven't tried gaming with Linux in a few years now. Used to use it for school/programming. Unfortunately there's no getting around the fact that gaming is easier and more stable on Windows. Yes it's much easier to game on Linux than in years passed but there's a lot to be said for native OS support when all you're trying to do is relax and unwind with a game. Particularly when Microsoft publishes them like Forza.


I wanted to dual boot back on my 2600K build, but I was using RAID0, and keeping my current Windows was essentially impossible.
After not being able to do it myself, I asked my turbo linux nerd friend (Gentoo-type) to help me, and he also concluded it was basicly impossible.


----------



## UnholyVision

Jiniix said:


> The problematic games are GTA: V, which doesn't run _at all _(and I also don't have the Steam version, so only WINE can be tried, not Proton yet) and World of Warcraft.
> 
> Right now I can't even install the Battle.net Client, and that type of future insecurity is not something I'm interested in.


I will look into that game soon. I'll see if I can get it running via Steam and make a tutorial video on it if I can. Believe I have to buy that one. I think I never bought it because Saints Row series of games were native to Linux when that was coming out. 
Edit: The game is on sale on Steam too. What a perfect coinkydink. 

I've installed Battle.net, OverWatch, SCII, and various other games through Wine. Though I don't suggest doing it that way anymore. If it isn't on Steam It's so much easier doing it through Lutris. You download Lutris from a package manager, make an account, search for the game, & just hit the install button. It configures Wine and everything the way someone who had it working set it up.
https://lutris.net/games/world-of-warcraft/ (It seems that this game even has the highest grade of performance. "Platinum" with a Wine + DXVK install.



Jiniix said:


> I wanted to dual boot back on my 2600K build, but I was using RAID0, and keeping my current Windows was essentially impossible.
> After not being able to do it myself, I asked my turbo linux nerd friend (Gentoo-type) to help me, and he also concluded it was basicly impossible.


My suggestion is take it to a Linux Fest at some point. Heck you missed the 2018 one sadly. I would have even agreed to take a look at it, in person. There is always a lounge area with people helping people setup Linux setup machines their having issues with.

Your friend sounds kind of cool. I'm a Gentoo, Arch, and Linux Scratch kind of person. Though I must admit Arch is my favorite for the AUR. Gentoo second as I still have to compile a lot. Third scratch because that's just hobbyist material otherwise you're always compiling. xD


----------



## Darren

UnholyVision said:


> 1) That is something everyone should do. Specially in this day and age where Linux gaming is quiet easy and much easier with things like Proton. The official version of Wine built into the Steam client. Which runs about 90% of games. With a possible launch option on some or executable tweak, but usually not that hard.
> 
> 2) Not at all. On GNU/Linux you don't even have to wait to play your game after installing it in Steam. No first time setup or any of that crap. Native games install in an instant and off you go.
> 
> 3) Have you even looked at what is native on Linux? We have Deus Ex games, Dirt series games, Lara Croft games, Shadow of Mordor, and a lot of titles for the OS. Mind you some are binary wrapped, but binary wrapped is not WINE in the slightest, but honestly with how WINE + DXVK is I wouldn't care.
> 
> 4) https://store.steampowered.com/app/537450/ReCore_Definitive_Edition/ <-- Microsoft Studios title
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <--- Steam Proton running the game like it was nothing. With D3D11 support. (Skip to about 1:18 to see gameplay footage).
> 
> 
> ----
> Not try to come off as brass or rude. It just seems like you have been out of touch with what is happening in Linux. Nor am I trying to say everything is perfect. Because AMD has a long ways to go even. Yet if you're Nvidia carding it up you're usually pretty solid. Specially when using the latest drivers. (It's just the Penguin has had a fire light under it and things are changing rapidly. )



Oh I'll fully admit to being out of the loop with Linux lately. It's just not something I feel like messing with on my personal machine. Windows does everything I need and I quite like it overall. I've messed around with it a few times, mainly for a programming class 4 years ago in college. 

I'm in an IT dept that is exclusively Windows and that's what I'm comfortable with and plan to specialize in as I continue my career. I don't even game much anymore on my Windows PC. I am aware there are more and more native titles these days. I was hoping Vulkan would push that more but alas... I'm actually an AMD guy usually, despite the 1080.

And good luck getting any modern Microsoft Studios game to run on anything but W10.


----------



## Jiniix

UnholyVision said:


> I will look into that game soon. I'll see if I can get it running via Steam and make a tutorial video on it if I can.


That would be quite the feat, considering it's very well documented to not run past the launcher.


----------



## UnholyVision

Darren said:


> I'm in an IT dept that is exclusively Windows and that's what I'm comfortable with and plan to specialize in as I continue my career. I don't even game much anymore on my Windows PC. I am aware there are more and more native titles these days. I was hoping Vulkan would push that more but alas...
> 
> I'm actually an AMD guy usually, despite the 1080.
> 
> And good luck getting any modern Microsoft Studios game to run on anything but W10.


Well no one is forcing you to change or even insisted such a thing. Use whatever floats your boat.

AMD in the mid range cards work fine with the opensource drivers out of the box. Though put something like Vega in there and you're going to have trouble. Mainly because someone had the brilliant idea to make it require both Mesa & the proprietary driver. xD There are literally packages that you have the two drivers running side by side for one card. One of the annoying things too is you have to know to install these packages before starting your distro of choose. Otherwise boot Grub and blackscreen. Well unless you have "nomodeset" set to kill amd_gpu calls, lol. Which is why Nvidia is just a must for some people. (I'm hopping now that AMD's profits are rising with Ryzen they really crack down on the GPU side for Linux).

Modern? You mean out of the M$ Store? Why would anyone want to buy from such a place to begin with? Microshaft is known to kill off purchases for everything making customers loose their digital content. They did it to Zune, GFW-L, and many others. Heck people dished out hundreds in DLC for some of those GFW-L titles and lost access to everything.

On a side note to that, why couldn't one get those to run? Their not even native. Everything that comes out of the store is in a software wrapper called UWP(Universal Windows Platform). It's basically a FlatPak or AppImg ready to be used on any Microsoft platform. One reason why a lot of people were complaining about performance when those games first came out. On that note UWP has official cross platform support for Windows, Mac, & Linux on a majority of the pieces implemented in the wrapper lol. Only some snippets of the MS development pages.



> UWP apps take advantage of the new Microsoft .NET Core Framework (explained in detail later in this article)
> 
> .NET Core Framework is open source and available on GitHub (github.com/dotnet/corefx) and is supported by Microsoft on Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X. If you’re a UWP developer utilizing the latest .NET technology, this brings you huge advantages. In Visual Studio 2015, you can utilize .NET Core portable class libraries (PCLs) to target any UWP app, .NET 4.6 app or ASP.NET 5 app—even those that are cross-platform.


(Funny thing is a lot of it's opensoure on GitHub and another the other funny thing is Microsoft now purchased GitHub. Yet UWP is locked into the Windows Store. AKA GitHub will soon be renamed Windows Store. Okay maybe not. xD) (Edit: Yes I understand what .Net is, trust me I do. I only quoted that one part so this isn't a whole book).



Jiniix said:


> That would be quite the feat, considering it's very well documented to not run past the launcher.


I have high hopes for getting it to run. I read into what the game uses for game install scripts and the works. Only problem right now is the game is basically 80GB. I'm only half way done downloading, lol.


----------



## Darren

Actually you're right about UWP being somewhat cross platform. I should know that considering we talked about it in my web programming class and are using Visual Studio 2017.  The fact that it's a Microsoft published game is more what I'm getting at rather than it being a UWP product. The entire game is baked into you having an Xbox profile (even on PC) and the overall functionality needs it. 

Also don't get me wrong, I dislike the Windows Store, much prefer Steam for numerous reasons. However when the game is exclusive to the platform, you gotta play ball if you want to play their games (legally at least). I imagine getting it to the point of being playable on Linux would violate some license agreements.

I too am hoping for AMD to get it together, I would have bought Vega if it wasn't such a dumpster fire.


----------



## _Kyle_

Darren said:


> I would have bought Vega if it wasn't such a dumpster fire.



They ran so hot I wouldn't doubt that they would start one.


----------



## Darren

Deerling7 said:


> They ran so hot I wouldn't doubt that they would start one.


Huehuehue.

To be fair though, heat wasn't a massive concern for me. My 390 was a furnace but it still stayed in plenty reasonable temps and performed well. Vega's pricing/performance was just totally backwards, the heat and power consumption just made it worse.


----------



## UnholyVision

Jiniix said:


> That would be quite the feat, considering it's very well documented to not run past the launcher.


Update: I have broken this game multiple times now. However, I have got the launcher to make me an account and passed it into the game. I'm having a few stutter issues that I'm trying to fix, because the game will go from 40FPS to 100FPS in the blink of an eye. I also have a weird game glitch with settings & minor bugs, but other than that it's working. I'm not going to call this playable yet, but in time I think this game will work 100% with the correct tweaks. If Proton is updated it may even resolve this without any work around. *Shrugs*

A brief example of what I've done so far is install some fonts, d3d9, and vcrun2012 with Winetricks. Disabled nvapi & nvapi64. Which isn't very hard for a new user given they can open a terminal. Though I do wish to get this 100% because I don't like half @!$ uhm things. 



Darren said:


> The fact that it's a Microsoft published game is more what I'm getting at rather than it being a UWP product. The entire game is baked into you having an Xbox profile (even on PC) and the overall functionality needs it.
> 
> Also don't get me wrong, I dislike the Windows Store, much prefer Steam for numerous reasons. However when the game is exclusive to the platform, you gotta play ball if you want to play their games (legally at least).
> 
> I imagine getting it to the point of being playable on Linux would violate some license agreements.
> 
> I too am hoping for AMD to get it together, I would have bought Vega if it wasn't such a dumpster fire.


That is when I say, "work arounds", lol. Similar to how there was a work around for GFW-L in Wine.

Nah, don't play ball. If you vote with your wallet per se things could happen. I mean look at the games that were exclusive to the MS Store like that Quantum game or whatever it was called. (That one with the weird time jumps. Speaking of that game, I probably should try to get that working too xD). People went nuts and didn't purchase & boom Steam version.

Honestly, that is probably an area where it would be fine. The license would have to completely contradict itself otherwise. I mean to have parts of your software under one license for opensource then another. Specially to support Linux under the GNU General Public License. I mean you can use BSD License, but tha limits you in many ways with libraries and other various things.

I have a Vega 64, it's not horrible, but if we're talking gaming via Windows its basically an overpriced 1080. Yet put it in Linux and get it setup right it can run circles around a 1080Ti in some games. (Edit: Not trying to make it sound great. Because as I explained before, to get it properly going you have to use the stupid combo of drivers. Then even with that it's not great). As for heat, the third party cooler isn't bad and it runs at around the temp of a GTX 1060. Yet it is much bigger than a 1060.


----------



## Darren

GFWL was a travesty. That's for sure. Thankfully they patched it out of some of their games (GTA IV comes to mind). 

Since the MS Store is tied to your MS account and it's their own games that I'm buying, I'm not worried about them disappearing anymore than I am that my Steam games or Microsoft Windows license will. 

Also I am voting with my wallet. Up until 2 years ago you couldn't even get Forza games on PC so I don't have an issue paying full price for it as console exclusives rarely come to PC.

Vega was quite good at certain things but overall it was nothing but a let down considering it cost a lot more than a 1080, performed slightly worse in most titles and better in a few, crazy power consumption comparitively, and availability was terrible around launch. I do miss my AMD drivers though.


----------



## Jiniix

Darren said:


> GFWL was a travesty. That's for sure. Thankfully they patched it out of some of their games (GTA IV comes to mind).


I do have very "fond" memories of being in a GFWL loop with GTA IV.
You can't save, you need to login. You can't login, you need to restart. You can't restart, saving doesn't work until you log in. Repeat. Something like that, oh boy I miss it


----------



## UnholyVision

Darren said:


> GFWL was a travesty. That's for sure. Thankfully they patched it out of some of their games (GTA IV comes to mind).
> 
> Since the MS Store is tied to your MS account and it's their own games that I'm buying, I'm not worried about them disappearing anymore than I am that my Steam games or Microsoft Windows license will.


I wish ShadowRun (The FPS version), Section 8, Juiced 2, Fuel, Lost Planet 2, Quantum of Solace, Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City, Dirt 2, Dirt 3, The Club, Universe at War: Earth Assault[ got patched for Steam. We lost so many good to decent titles to GFWL that possible could have taken off with Steam or GOG.

Thats what GFWL was... A Live account with games and DLC tied to it. Now gone forever for legal users.




Darren said:


> Also I am voting with my wallet. Up until 2 years ago you couldn't even get Forza games on PC so I don't have an issue paying full price for it as console exclusives rarely come to PC.


Console exclusives come to the Windows PC all the time.. I could make you a huge list. Specially now with the consoles all being the x86 platforms. Then the more popular console is the PS4, which runs Orbis OS, a modified version of FreeBSD. Microsoft Studio Games included come to Steam all the time. The only games not on Steam is games like Gears of War. Which I would understand for exclusives if the platform was viable, but that Windows Store isn't fun to navigate with all that bloatware, et cetera. Then just for a business standpoint exclusives on PC's just aren't that viable anymore for income. Even more so when an indie developer. There are literally examples where some games sold like crap on select stores, but better on others (Steam lost some of them on that note). Then some games sold like crap to say Windows users, but developers got most their cash from Linux gamers. (For the record, there are some games that are only on Steam and I'm not for that either. Basically what I'm getting at is I don't like monopolies, duopolies, et cetera. It's not very capitalist it's an oligopoly which in turn hurts the individual. Similar to the AMD and Nvidia issue or AMD and Intel one).




Darren said:


> Vega was quite good at certain things but overall it was nothing but a let down considering it cost a lot more than a 1080, performed slightly worse in most titles and better in a few, crazy power consumption comparitively, and availability was terrible around launch. I do miss my AMD drivers though.


Yes on Windows. Linux it can beat a 1080Ti in a handful of games or sits around a 1080 and no lower using the open-source portion of drivers. That being said I don't encourage buying for Linux gaming as it's a cluster $#% with the current state of drivers. Even rolling OS's like Arch state it's not even officially supported and to go to the AUR for support, lol.

It was the same thing as say AMD FX processors. It worked better in Linux due to their architecture, being it was technically a server part. Vega being similar with the architecture being closer to a workstation gpu. If Linux is known for anything by normies  it's known for server support & visual studio editing. (Pixar being one of the big Linux users. https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...nux-and-opengl-open-sourced-a-major-tool.7993).  Which kind of gives reverse engineering an advantage over Windows with no one doing it. Leaps by previous examples per se. However, on Windows it's use the proprietary driver or have no hardware accelerated graphics. Then if we're honest AMD tends to make some very poor drivers even on Windows. (I know they revamped the drivers and they have gotten better, but still not spectacular). Which nine times out of ten are beat by community open-source drivers on any card, on the Linux side, lol.

Anyway, I don't like bashing AMD, but there is so much to bash and so many poor decisions that I wish the market wasn't a duopoly. All we can do is just sit back and hope they get better. =/




Jiniix said:


> The problematic games are GTA: V,


I got it to work pretty well. My recording while playing didn't hold up real well so there is some sync issues. However, it works great.






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Just a PSA for anyone whom is using Windows 10. Backup your data frequently until they fix the issue. Don't be a victim to the Cortana Maid.
https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-october-2018-update-seems-be-deleting-users-data


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## UnholyVision

Only a PSA. I just learned about this and it seems to be growing in effecting users.

https://www.windowslatest.com/2018/...-activation-system-is-broken-a-fix-is-coming/

If you're on Windows 10 Pro you may want to just not login your computer for a while. Whatever you do, don't buy a new license key, because all of this garbage. Apparently from a few other sources about this topic, Microsoft was telling people to buy new activation keys. Only to have people spend the money and it didn't work. (face-to-palm)

There is a possible fix for some errors. Though it has to be this specific one.
https://www.windowslatest.com/2018/11/09/reactivate-windows-10-and-fix-error-0xc004c003/


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## Darren

UnholyVision said:


> Only a PSA. I just learned about this and it seems to be growing in effecting users.
> 
> https://www.windowslatest.com/2018/...-activation-system-is-broken-a-fix-is-coming/
> 
> If you're on Windows 10 Pro you may want to just not login your computer for a while. Whatever you do, don't buy a new license key, because all of this garbage. Apparently from a few other sources about this topic, Microsoft was telling people to buy new activation keys. Only to have people spend the money and it didn't work. (face-to-palm)
> 
> There is a possible fix for some errors. Though it has to be this specific one.
> https://www.windowslatest.com/2018/11/09/reactivate-windows-10-and-fix-error-0xc004c003/


I had this issue at work but only for the duration of yesterday. If you run troubleshooting on the activation it seems to work now. At least for the couple I tried today.


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## UnholyVision

Darren said:


> I had this issue at work but only for the duration of yesterday. If you run troubleshooting on the activation it seems to work now. At least for the couple I tried today.


It seems that this has caused a few different errors. When the servers came back up some people started working fine again, but from what I'm gathering there are about three error codes. One fixed by Microsoft server, one fixed by third party, and one still floating out there. Oh and I saw a few reports that Microsoft software deactivated too. Uggh, what a headache. 

It's good to see that some people are back, but sad to see some are still suffering from this. That and good to hear that fixed it for you, I've read a few people stating it was fixed that way too without the registry fix. Either way it stinks it happened, because people like yourself would have been flooded with, "My PC is broke" well, maybe that would be a good thing in some ways, lol.


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## Darren

UnholyVision said:


> It seems that this has caused a few different errors. When the servers came back up some people started working fine again, but from what I'm gathering there are about three error codes. One fixed by Microsoft server, one fixed by third party, and one still floating out there. Oh and I saw a few reports that Microsoft software deactivated too. Uggh, what a headache.
> 
> It's good to see that some people are back, but sad to see some are still suffering from this. That and good to hear that fixed it for you, I've read a few people stating it was fixed that way too without the registry fix. Either way it stinks it happened, because people like yourself would have been flooded with, "My PC is broke" well, maybe that would be a good thing in some ways, lol.


Yeah I still was having some weirdness on stuff so it's not perfect. Hoping its fixed because I was relying on that activation for a bunch of machines we're giving away at Christmas for work and now none of them are activated despite them having had 7 Pro before (and thus 10 Pro should activate but it's not).


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## Darren

https://www.pcgamer.com/still-running-windows-7-get-ready-to-be-badgered-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/


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## johnb35

Its funny how they said the free upgrade to 10 was stopped after so long but yet you can still do it as I did it for a laptop just the other day.  And now they are advertising again about the upgrade, or should I say forcing the upgrade.


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## Darren

I wouldn't call it forcing when 7 is 10 years old and is about to end support. Better that then just not at all.


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## johnb35

I wasn't saying its a bad thing as I think upgrading to 10 is a good thing.  Its just that 10 isn't compatible with some of the older video chipsets.  I've only came across this one when upgrading from 7 to 10.


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