# 32-bit or 64-bit?



## Honest Bill (Jul 19, 2012)

I have a dilemma.  I work from home by connecting to a remote server at our office in a neighboring town.  I'm a real estate appraiser and we use software by alamode.  I'm way overdue a new home computer and our IT guy says that I need Windows 7 32-bit because it will run faster than 64-bit.  To do so means I will max out at 4GB of memory, which is way short of what I wanted and thought I needed.  He swears that I will get much better performance with 32-bit, that it will run circles around 64-bit with 8-12GB of memory.  Is this true?  I sure hate to buy a sub-par computer by today's standards ... I'm ready to spend whatever it takes to get the latest and greatest, a computer that will last me for a few years.  After all, my computer is my livilhood, and time is money.  Thanks, Bill


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## wolfeking (Jul 19, 2012)

your IT guy is an idiot.  they both run at the same speed. you will see no difference except in a program that can run more than 4GB, which will be slower.  You should run 64 bit.


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## jonnyp11 (Jul 19, 2012)

agreed, also, what computer are you looking at? we can help you pick one or what parts to upgrade, but it is best to build your own, it is cheaper, more powerful, and a little fun too.


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## MyCattMaxx (Jul 19, 2012)

I assume you are using WinTOTAL.
The requirements say nothing about 32 or 64 bit.
Your IT man is probably clueless about it.






Edit: another page says 32 or 64 is good.


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## G80FTW (Jul 19, 2012)

Your first order of business should be to fire your IT guy.

BUT, I think it should be noted that there may not actually be any real advantage to building a 64-bit rig (with 12GB of RAM and what not) as 90% of applications out there are still 32-bit applications.  So if your using 64-bit capable applications then you will see a difference, if all your applications are 32-bit then it wont matter.


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## MyCattMaxx (Jul 19, 2012)

G80FTW said:


> Your first order of business should be to fire your IT guy.
> 
> BUT, I think it should be noted that there may not actually be any real advantage to building a 64-bit rig (with 12GB of RAM and what not) as 90% of applications out there are still 32-bit applications.  So if your using 64-bit capable applications then you will see a difference, if all your applications are 32-bit then it wont matter.


I'll disagree since this is his home computer and if he is going new he may as well go 64 bit, wouldn't you?
There is basically no cost difference except if you want more than 4 gig of memory.

The question now is if the OP wants to build or buy store bought.


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## wolfeking (Jul 19, 2012)

Really there is no reason not to buy 64 bit, as windows cost the same no matter the bit rate, and 64 bit will run 32 bit apps. If you need 16 bit apps then you will need a copy of pro to run XP mode, but it will still run them.


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## G80FTW (Jul 19, 2012)

MyCattMaxx said:


> I'll disagree since this is his home computer and if he is going new he may as well go 64 bit, wouldn't you?
> There is basically no cost difference except if you want more than 4 gig of memory.
> 
> The question now is if the OP wants to build or buy store bought.



This is all true.  I was just saying, there is not a real advantage to 64-bit yet. For whatever reason, it has not become mainstream yet even though its been around for more than a decade.


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## MyCattMaxx (Jul 19, 2012)

G80FTW said:


> This is all true.  I was just saying, there is not a real advantage to 64-bit yet. For whatever reason, it has not become mainstream yet even though its been around for more than a decade.


Then why even bring up going 32 bit?
I use several apps that run better on 64 bit like WinRAR, video editing and a few other apps.
Plus the 4gig cap on 32 bit hurts what I do.
The OP sounded like the 4gig cap was an issue with him.


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## G80FTW (Jul 20, 2012)

MyCattMaxx said:


> Then why even bring up going 32 bit?
> I use several apps that run better on 64 bit like WinRAR, video editing and a few other apps.
> Plus the 4gig cap on 32 bit hurts what I do.
> The OP sounded like the 4gig cap was an issue with him.



Because there is no reason to completely alienate it.  I have not seen any programs really run better in 64-bit as opposed to 32 bit, even 64-bit programs.  And I dont think a 4GB limit would cause him any problems.  

Im not saying go with 32-bit, I am saying there is not really any difference between the 2 in terms of performance (yet). Which his IT person said 32-bit was faster.


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## StrangleHold (Jul 20, 2012)

G80FTW said:


> Because there is no reason to completely alienate it.


 
Why, if there is no reason to use the 32 bit. I call that to completely alienate it.





G80FTW said:


> I have not seen any programs really run better in 64-bit as opposed to 32 bit, even 64-bit programs.


 
What (true) 64 bit program do you have that will run on a 32 bit OS. 



G80FTW said:


> And I dont think a 4GB limit would cause him any problems.


 
If he wants 8 to 12gb. of memory I would call using a 32 bit OS a slight problem. 



G80FTW said:


> Im not saying go with 32-bit, I am saying there is not really any difference between the 2 in terms of performance (yet). Which his IT person said 32-bit was faster.


 
Make up your mind which fact your going with. Cant argue from both sides of the fence.


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## G80FTW (Jul 20, 2012)

StrangleHold said:


> Why, if there is no reason to use the 32 bit. I call that to completely alienate it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Look, he said he WANTED 8-12GB of RAM, not that he NEEDS it. And from what it sounds like he is doing he doesnt NEED more than 4GB if that.

And Im not arguing both sides.  Im saying that if he is building a computer to be used as a business computer, and it doesnt sound like he is doing any kind of heavy editing like photo/video, so there really should be no need to go with 8-12GB of RAM (I dont even use more than 2GB doing any video editing) so then there is no problem with running a 32-bit OS when it would be a waste of money to buy 12GB of RAM as opposed to 4GB which should suit his needs.

And what "true" 64-bit programs are there? I only have 2 64-bit programs on my PC right now.  90% of programs are 32-bit so as I said, there is no real advantage to having a 64-bit operating system yet until it becomes more mainstream (not sure why it hasnt yet) other than being able to use more RAM. Which is great if you need it, but I put money on it that he doesnt need it.

So here is my argument.  He will be fine with 4GB of RAM, no need to invest in 8-12GB.  In which case, 32-bit will suit his needs.  If he wants to go with 64-bit then cool, Im saying there wont be a performance difference involved either way.


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## StrangleHold (Jul 20, 2012)

I really dont get your point on the OS!

Take your idea, he just gets 4gb. of memory and a 32 bit OS. Even at this point he still only gets access to less then the full 4gb. 3.75gb. or less depending on his set up.

Now later on he decides to upgrade his memory. He pretty much screwed isnt he? I dont see the point in 32 bit. How is it going to benefit him at all?


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## Benny Boy (Jul 20, 2012)

G80FTW said:


> running a 32-bit OS when it would be a waste of money to buy 12GB of RAM as opposed to 4GB which should suit his needs.


 
Maybe you know this program. I don't. I did take a quick look at it and its several programs/app or a suite. It looks like it has maps, charts, forms,etc,,several apps. If so then many of these will be open and in use at one time. 
More importantly, 32bit won't make 3.XXgb as available since 7 will reserve what it wants. Then you have whats left to work with, + pagefile.sys. And everyone wants fewer pages filed whether they know it or not. Mostly because of the way 7 manages memory, not to mention the slim 4gb vs 8gb cost , 64 bit + 8gb is the way to go. There might be a time when saving $10-15 could make sence, but this isn't it.



G80FTW said:


> there is no real advantage to having a 64-bit operating system yet until it becomes more mainstream (not sure why it hasnt yet) other than being able to use more RAM.


You answered your own argument.

@Honest Bill
You mentioned you need to upgrade your pc. 
Did you mean upgrade your current one? With components? Windows 7? Is it worth the investment?
Or did you mean a new machine? As in the case and it's components?

If its the latter, and you don't want to be down because time is money, a business solution with same day service or loaner program might be for you. 

Whether you want to buy or build, this forum can help with that.


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## Compequip (Jul 20, 2012)

To the OP HonestBill, as long as the software supports 64 bit you should be fine.  Here is a good article I found you might want to read.

http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/how-windows7-vista64-support-32bit-applications.htm

I have a program that I run soley for work that will only work with 32 bit.  We even tried win. 7 ultimate and it ran into errors and wouldn't let the program run.  But I believe this is largely due to the fact that the program doesn't have 64 bit drivers or something to this point.  I'm not a software guy so I can't explain it very good.  But as I can see doing a quick search myslelf, I'd run 64 bit with more memory that you want and double and triple check with your IT guy and ask if it's compatible.  Or simply call the software company that makes the software and ask them .......


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## G80FTW (Jul 20, 2012)

Compequip said:


> To the OP HonestBill, as long as the software supports 64 bit you should be fine.  Here is a good article I found you might want to read.
> 
> http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/how-windows7-vista64-support-32bit-applications.htm
> 
> I have a program that I run soley for work that will only work with 32 bit.  We even tried win. 7 ultimate and it ran into errors and wouldn't let the program run.  But I believe this is largely due to the fact that the program doesn't have 64 bit drivers or something to this point.  I'm not a software guy so I can't explain it very good.  But as I can see doing a quick search myslelf, I'd run 64 bit with more memory that you want and double and triple check with your IT guy and ask if it's compatible.  Or simply call the software company that makes the software and ask them .......



Iv never seen a 32-bit program that wont run in 64-bit.  Although I remember having problems with 64-bit Vista back when it first came out..


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## paulcheung (Jul 20, 2012)

Will a 16bit program run faster in 32bits windows 7 than in xp mode run in 64bit windows 7?


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## jonnyp11 (Jul 20, 2012)

I believe someone said  you need win7 ultimate to run in XP mode to use a 16 bit program


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## wolfeking (Jul 20, 2012)

Pro will run XP mode too.  And running 16 bit programs is a very bad reason to not get 64 bit. If you have a 16 bit program then either dual boot with XP, or buy a 32 bit version of said program.


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## paulcheung (Jul 20, 2012)

well I think run dual boot is the way to go. We have some 16 bits programs and some obsolute programs (mean the company bellyup) just can't run in 64bits. maybe that is the case of the OP?


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## Honest Bill (Jul 23, 2012)

jonnyp11 said:


> what computer are you looking at? we can help you pick one or what parts to upgrade, but it is best to build your own, it is cheaper, more powerful, and a little fun too.



Think of me as someone who would be quick to leap and snatch the keys of a super-fast sports car and would quickly climb behind the wheel and push the car to the limits, but also someone who knows absolutely nothing about what's under the hood, and, quite frankly, really doesn't care to know.

I want a really great computer that will work optimally with the software we use (in my case, remotely), as well as surf fast with tons of windows open.

Operating it is fun ... building it is scary.


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## MyCattMaxx (Jul 23, 2012)

Honest Bill said:


> Think of me as someone who would be quick to leap and snatch the keys of a super-fast sports car and would quickly climb behind the wheel and push the car to the limits, but also someone who knows absolutely nothing about what's under the hood, and, quite frankly, really doesn't really care to know.
> 
> I want a really great computer that will work optimally with the software we use (in my case, remotely), as well as surf fast with tons of windows open.
> 
> Operating it is fun ... building it is scary.


We can help you build a monster!
I am sorry that someone cause a 32 bit mmm riot, and messed your thread up.

Do you want to build new, buy store bought or mod what you have?


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## Honest Bill (Jul 23, 2012)

"I assume you are using WinTOTAL.  The requirements say nothing about 32 or 64 bit.
Your IT man is probably clueless about it."

Yep, we use WinTOTAL.

Actually, I don't think he is clueless, as he has been working on our office workstations and server for some time.  That said, he's no expert when it comes to the using the software itself.  He really threw me for a loop when he suggested I stick with 32-bit for my new home computer, which maxes out at 4GB of memory ... said I would get better performance ... that mystifies me, as well as frustrates me, as I need to replace my 8 year-old computer that feels like it is about to crash ... I was set on spending the bucks to buy a speed demon of a new computer.


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## Honest Bill (Jul 23, 2012)

MyCattMaxx said:


> The question now is if the OP wants to build or buy store bought.



I would rather have someone I trust, who knows what the heck they are doing, build a computer for me, as opposed to buying from Dell or Lenovo.  Also, I would rather have it serviced locally, as opposed to talking with someone who barely speaks my language and who doesn't share the same citizenship.  Problem is, I live in a very small town and have no access to a reliable computer person, other than the IT guy in our office, who is making this harder than it should be for me.


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## MyCattMaxx (Jul 23, 2012)

Honest Bill said:


> MyCattMaxx said:
> 
> 
> > I assume you are using WinTOTAL.
> ...


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## MyCattMaxx (Jul 23, 2012)

We can help you build your own with your hands or you can have someone who is trusted do it for you.

I recommend doing it yourself, we will help you.


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## Honest Bill (Jul 23, 2012)

Benny Boy said:


> Maybe you know this program. I don't. I did take a quick look at it and its several programs/app or a suite. It looks like it has maps, charts, forms,etc,,several apps. If so then many of these will be open and in use at one time.
> 
> 
> You mentioned you need to upgrade your pc.
> ...



Yes, there are several apps in WinTOTAL, as you described, with many open at one time.  I need to replace my PC ... my current Dell PC is 8 years old and has slowed down far too much and I have not been able to revive it to its former glory.  I can not afford down time, which makes it important to have a reliable computer guy in proximity.  Would love to have a computer built for me, as I have been told here and elsewhere that I can get better specs for the same or less money than buyung directly from Dell or Lenovo.


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## Honest Bill (Jul 23, 2012)

Compequip said:


> Or simply call the software company that makes the software and ask them .......



Good article, and excellent suggestion ... just sent an email to the software company asking for their recommendation and will post their answer.


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## Honest Bill (Jul 23, 2012)

Honest Bill said:


> I guess at this point will be your budget and if you plan on gaming with it as that will change the parts list.
> We can help if we know you want store bought or build your own.



NO gaming ... other than working remotely in WinTOTAL, I store and play with photos quite a bit, surf the net a lot with many windows open at once, play the market a bit with dual monitors, and listen to music while I'm doing it all.

Store bought or build your own?  I guess it doesn't matter, as long as it does what I need it to, is built with quality components to ensure reliability, and can be easily fixed whenever I need it.

I'm prepared to spend whatever ... this computer is my livlihood.


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## MyCattMaxx (Jul 23, 2012)

Honest Bill said:


> MyCattMaxx said:
> 
> 
> > NO gaming ... other than working remotely in WinTOTAL, I store and play with photos quite a bit, surf the net a lot with many windows open at once, play the market a bit with dual monitors, and listen to music while I'm doing it all.
> ...


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## Benny Boy (Jul 23, 2012)

Honest Bill said:


> Also, I would rather have it serviced locally, as opposed to talking with someone who barely speaks my language and who doesn't share the same citizenship. Problem is, I live in a very small town and have no access to a reliable computer person, other than the IT guy in our office, who is making this harder than it should be for me.


 Because of your location it's better to spend an afternoon assembling the parts that are delivered to your door into a case yourself? Then you would know more about your computer and be on your way to being self sufficient with your pc? 

Instead of an industry standard 1yr warranty on a prebuilt, your custom will have 1-5 or even 7 yrs warranty on its components. Customizing to your specific needs also means being able to allocate the budget among the components to ensure high quality in every part, instead of choosing between the generically built prebuilt that everyone chooses from and that are made from parts using vendors with the lowest bid resulting in a unit that is built to last about the length of thier 1 yr warranty.


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## Honest Bill (Jul 23, 2012)

"While there are some programs that do not work well with a 64 bit PC, Wintotal is not one of them.  It makes no difference to Wintotal if its 32 or 64.  I hope this helps you."

This is the response I got from a tech guy at alamode, who makes the WinTOTAL software I use.  Curious that he said, "There are some programs that do not work well with a 64 bit PC."


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## Honest Bill (Jul 23, 2012)

This is the quote I got from the company that our IT guy works for ... it includes two 24" monitors and follows his recommendation for 32-bit and is based on the way I use my computer ... remote connection using WinTOTAL, no gaming, some photo editing and lots of photo storage, surfing the net like a banshee on fire, listening to music.

There are many variations of the components he has recommended and the nuances among them is Greek to me ... though I'm a bang for the buck kind of guy and don't believe in paying for something that I really can't appreciate, I do want quality and reliability and long life and don't want to sacrifice just to save a few bucks.


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## Benny Boy (Jul 23, 2012)

That build has no Solid State Drive, so add some more $ to the $1500.
It even has 1 stick of memory whicj means it will run in single channel You want dual channel memory for 2x the bandwidth.
And it still has 32 bit. You want *64 bit.*
And there's more, but...

So you don't want to assemble it? Because for $900 I have a parts list that will blow that ones doors off. What 2 monitors can you get for $600? Here's 2 for $520. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009376

EDIT: 


Honest Bill said:


> Curious that he said, "There are some programs that do not work well with a 64 bit PC."


This was a generic statement and does not apply to you.


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## G80FTW (Jul 23, 2012)

Benny Boy said:


> That build has no Solid State Drive, so add some more $ to the $1500.
> It even has 1 stick of memory whicj means it will run in single channel You want dual channel memory for 2x the bandwidth.
> And it still has 32 bit. You want *64 bit.*
> And there's more, but...
> ...



That price isnt that bad.....  He is also paying for all the warranties and crap that he would not have if he built it himself.  And I have a feeling if he build one himself he might be on here quite a bit 

His parts price without the warranty and Windows 7 would be about $550 or so, which is about what that would cost to build.


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## Benny Boy (Jul 23, 2012)

Your ^ kidding, right?

Running a cheap motherboard, and cheap out as much as possible on the power supply which is the most important part, and run single channel memory,with a 32bit os, and put it all in a flimsy case, isn't my idea of good. With quality comes a longer life and the manufacturer's warranty. More warranty can be purchased for anything but it's a waste of $ imo.

Here's a good tutorial.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPIXAtNGGCw

Buying the components and paying someone a few bucks to put it together is better than buying a prebuilt.

Here's a build list that I dont have time to explain differences between your list and this atm, but I'm sure other members will chime in with thier thoughts. I shopped quality and functionality for your uses + a little more for any future demands so you won't have to upgrade anything for a long time. After choosing the parts, I looked to see if any were combo'd together for savings. Cases are personal preference since the user is the one that has to look at it. It just needs to have good cooling, and some other features are nice to have. I included a case that was part of a deal with one of the top hard drives made becasue it has a lot of nice features for the price. If you pick a different case I suggest you keep this same hard drive. Just the tower/os so other peripherals will need to be addressed.
$842 shipped if you live where there's no tax, - 20 in mir's.(btw there are several i5 Quad Cores @ 3.1Ghz)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1003361

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=17581791

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1014148


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## Compequip (Jul 23, 2012)

G80FTW said:


> Iv never seen a 32-bit program that wont run in 64-bit.  Although I remember having problems with 64-bit Vista back when it first came out..



Yeah it's a program that for some reason crashes everytime you try and run it in windows 7 64.  We even tried guys that had a laptop with the win. 7 ultimate and it wouldn't run the program. It's a program that is a big pain in the A$$.  The factory said you can't run it under 64 bit, I'm sure they will update this, but as of now it won't run.  The program has been out for customer use for over 2 years now and still????


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## G80FTW (Jul 24, 2012)

Benny Boy said:


> Your ^ kidding, right?
> 
> Running a cheap motherboard, and cheap out as much as possible on the power supply which is the most important part, and run single channel memory,with a 32bit os, and put it all in a flimsy case, isn't my idea of good. With quality comes a longer life and the manufacturer's warranty. More warranty can be purchased for anything but it's a waste of $ imo.
> 
> [



Im not kidding. $550 in parts for that build isnt bad.  Im not saying its the best computer, Im saying its not wildly overpriced for what it is like most companies would do. 

And he can always change it to a 64-bit OS Im sure at no extra charge since they cost the same.

And like I said, its worth it for the warranty as if something goes wrong with his "cheap" motherboard or PSU he can just call someone to fix it no charge without the hassle of dealing with it himself like he would have to if he built it himself.


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## Benny Boy (Jul 24, 2012)

G80FTW said:


> And like I said, its worth it for the warranty as if something goes wrong with his "cheap" motherboard or PSU he can just call someone to fix it no charge without the hassle of dealing with it himself like he would have to if he built it himself.


 
The promise of a possible free repair isn't always that easy.
And your assuming something will go wrong with a higher quality self built.

What's paid for the tower/keyboard/mouse/os = $832 + tax + shipping = about $950
Agreed that the parts for that tower/keyboard/mouse/os costs about $550.

Per the quote, 
add about $29 for the cost diff + tax + shipping for this,,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101311
and add about $66 for the cost diff + tax + shipping here,,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009245
Add $95 for these 3 parts.

$1510 vs $1030 . Still worth it ?


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## G80FTW (Jul 24, 2012)

Benny Boy said:


> The promise of a possible free repair isn't always that easy.
> And your assuming something will go wrong with a higher quality self built.
> 
> What's paid for the tower/keyboard/mouse/os = $832 + tax + shipping = about $950
> ...



The cost difference there is only $30 before taxes.....  So about the same. I dont know where your $500 is coming from.


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## Benny Boy (Jul 24, 2012)

I didn't have Windows in the cart, so I missed it by 90.
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=19826405
Everything but the APC and 2 monitors came to 630 shipped.
1100 everything shipped.


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## G80FTW (Jul 24, 2012)

Benny Boy said:


> I didn't have Windows in the cart, so I missed it by 90.
> http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=19826405
> Everything but the APC and 2 monitors came to 630 shipped.
> 1100 everything shipped.



Thats before taxes and shipping.  Trust me man, the price for the computer they sent him the quote for is not bad.

So your total comes to $1,063~ before taxes and shipping and his was $1,388 before taxes and that included shipping.  That $,1388 also included a warranty and a 3 year upgrade warranty.  Not something you can get with a computer you build yourself as I already stated.  So for someone who is not computer savvy, which it sounds like the OP isnt, I would say building it himself may not be the best option down the road. It might save him money, but then he has to deal with whatever goes wrong with it.


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## Benny Boy (Jul 24, 2012)

Yup thats what I said, 1100 shipped vs 1510 (call it 1445 if you want)
Have to live in the right place to have tax. Anyway, you'll never convince me. You base your premise on whatever you want. I'll base mine on this.





Honest Bill said:


> Store bought or build your own? I guess it doesn't matter, as long as itdoes what I need it to, is built with quality components to ensure reliability, and can be easily fixed whenever I need it.


 I think the TS has enough info to make an informed decision.


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## Honest Bill (Jul 26, 2012)

*You guys are fricking awesome!*

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in on this post.  You have given me a ton of great information, and the dabate has been enlightening.  The youtube video helped a lot with my edification and the build list put together was very helpful in comparing the cost of better components to what has been quoted to me.

Having gone through all the info, I've just now sent an email to the fellow who quoted me a system with a bunch more questions.  I realize this is probably contrary to the way some of you feel, but trust me when I say it is best for someone else to build my system and to maintain and upgrade it when necessary.  I lead a ridiculously busy life and there simply isn't any time for me to tinker with the mechanics of computers ... I just need them to blow and go whenever I need them, which is a lot ... cyberspace is a huge part of nearly everything I do.


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## G80FTW (Jul 26, 2012)

Honest Bill said:


> Thanks to everyone who has chimed in on this post.  You have given me a ton of great information, and the dabate has been enlightening.  The youtube video helped a lot with my edification and the build list put together was very helpful in comparing the cost of better components to what has been quoted to me.
> 
> Having gone through all the info, I've just now sent an email to the fellow who quoted me a system with a bunch more questions.  I realize this is probably contrary to the way some of you feel, but trust me when I say it is best for someone else to build my system and to maintain and upgrade it when necessary.  I lead a ridiculously busy life and there simply isn't any time for me to tinker with the mechanics of computers ... I just need them to blow and go whenever I need them, which is a lot ... cyberspace is a huge part of nearly everything I do.



Its not for everyone, thats for sure.  And if your like some of us here, a custom build can consume time when things go wrong.  But, I think many agree thats part of the fun of building computers.  Not so much fun when they are needed for a business though


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## Honest Bill (Jul 31, 2012)

OK, based on the recommendations here and a ton of research on my part and discussions with the maker of the software I use for business and an ongoing conversation with the computer shop, we've put together the following system for my home office:

1 Lonestar Intel i7 3.4GHz Workstation (Black) *1,487.05* 
- Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
- Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Micro-ATX Motherboard
- Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor
- Kingston 16GB PC3-10600 Memory (4 x 4GB)
- Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC
Internal Solid State Drive
- Western Digital WD1002FAEX Caviar Black 1TB 64MB Cache SATA HDD
- ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS 24X DVD+/-RW
- LITE-ON iHAS424-98 24X SATA DVD+/-RW w/ LightScribe
- AFT PRO-55U All-in-one USB 2.0 Card Reader
- PNY VCGGT4301XPB GeForce GT 430 1GB PCIe
Video Card
- Six USB Ports (2 Front, 4 Rear)
- Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet
- Integrated High Definition Audio
- Microsoft USB Keyboard
- Microsoft USB Mouse
- Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid-Tower Case
- Antec EarthWatts EA-650 GREEN 650W PS
- 3-Year Manufacturer's X-Ship Warranty
2 Acer V243HAJbd 24" LCD Monitor *2 x 191.67 = 383.34*
- DVI & VGA Inputs, No Speakers
1 APC Back-UPS ES 750VA Desktop UPS *103.58*
1 Ground Delivery *70.00* 
Sub-Total: *2,043.97*
Tax (8.75%): *178.85*
Total: *2,222.82*

I need your no-holds-barred opinion, please.  I know it's better than the previous system posted (and, of course, more expensive), but is it too much, still too little, or just about right?  Did we miss anything, other than speakers (I'm going to use some I already have)?  Are all the components mixed and matched properly?  Remember, I'm not a gamer and this is for a home office and I don't mind paying someone to build this computer for me and tinkering with it as needed.

Thanks


----------



## wolfeking (Jul 31, 2012)

That is far too much for that computer I think. Your paying them about 500+ for assembly.  

And if you go for a 2600k (great CPU) then you want a p67 or z68/z77 motherboard. If you don't get one of them, then you will not be making use of teh k part and should just well get a 2600 non k. 
everything else looks fine to me.


----------



## Honest Bill (Jul 31, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> That is far too much for that computer I think. Your paying them about 500+ for assembly.



Not to argue, but I figure about $350 based on newegg pricing ... I'm willing to pay that to have someone experienced build the computer and warranty it for 3 years ... plus, they have spent a considerable amount of time answering my questions and advising me, and I plan to use them to keep me up and running.   



wolfeking said:


> And if you go for a 2600k (great CPU) then you want a p67 or z68/z77 motherboard. If you don't get one of them, then you will not be making use of teh k part and should just well get a 2600 non k.
> everything else looks fine to me.



Would this work?  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128502  If not, what do you recommend?  If so, is there something better?  Do I even need the "K" version?  Remember, I'm not a gamer.  If I don't or if it's something that will not benefit me, is the motherboard they have put with this system OK?  Is the 2600 "non K" OK?


----------



## jonnyp11 (Jul 31, 2012)

not sure why you're getting a gpu, i think that mobo supports the igpu, and you could use a corsair cx430 or something and save a few bucks, 650w is way overkill. looks good otherwise except as wolfe mentioned, the price

the k mean overclockable, looks like you don't want that so the mobo you linked would be fine.

and part of the problem with the price is a few parts are just more expensive alternatives, like a 1tb caviar black, it is great and all, but a 1tb seagate barracuda would do what you want for less money, they are slower but they still are plenty fast.

what is the case?


----------



## wolfeking (Jul 31, 2012)

Honest Bill said:


> Not to argue, but I figure about $350 based on newegg pricing ... I'm willing to pay that to have someone experienced build the computer and warranty it for 3 years ... plus, they have spent a considerable amount of time answering my questions and advising me, and I plan to use them to keep me up and running.


well, your still over paying. At 350, that is about 200 an hour in labour assuming they never assembled a computer before. for a professional, your putting out more or less 466 an hour just for labour.   The warranty is not worth that, as most of the parts have an equal or better warranty themselves.  At most you should be putting out about 100 in labour. Thats about 175 an hour. 



> Would this work?  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128502  If not, what do you recommend?  If so, is there something better?  Do I even need the "K" version?  Remember, I'm not a gamer.  If I don't or if it's something that will not benefit me, is the motherboard they have put with this system OK?  Is the 2600 "non K" OK?


no you don't need one, but it will allow you to overclock and thus extend the life of your computer. But your just as well off with a plain old 2600, which you probably don't need. You probably only need a 2500(k) as it is not hyper threaded and performs about on par for $60 less.    That board would be fine.


----------



## Honest Bill (Jul 31, 2012)

jonnyp11 said:


> not sure why you're getting a gpu, i think that mobo supports the igpu, and you could use a corsair cx430 or something and save a few bucks, 650w is way overkill. looks good otherwise except as wolfe mentioned, the price



By GPU, do you mean the 2600K?  MOBO = motherboard?  The motherboard they quoted works for the 2600K?  What size and brand of power supply do I need?  Please feel free to talk down to me ... this is all somewhere between Greek and Spanish to me ... I speak none of the former and very little of the latter.  



jonnyp11 said:


> the k mean overclockable, looks like you don't want that so the mobo you linked would be fine.



The motherboard I linked was to accomodate the "K".  The motherboard they quoted was not suitable for "K" but OK for the 2600 "non K".  Correct?



jonnyp11 said:


> what is the case?



Antec 300 ATX Mid-Tower


----------



## Honest Bill (Jul 31, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> But your just as well off with a plain old 2600, which you probably don't need. You probably only need a 2500(k) as it is not hyper threaded and performs about on par for $60 less.  That board would be fine.



The board they quoted or the one I linked?  It would be fine with the 2600 "non K" or the 2500K?


----------



## wolfeking (Jul 31, 2012)

the one you linked, and it will work with any LGA 1155 processor.


----------



## Benny Boy (Aug 1, 2012)

If your asking questions here, about what motherboard, what power supply, what's GPU, etc, and they have spent a "considerable amount of time" with you, then you haven't asked them the right questions and they haven't offered up any answers or comparisoms or info to you for you to have a basis on what your getting, as this forum has. All they've said is 'here's what you need' and when you mentioned warranty, they of course informed you of that money maker for them. We have members here that have been IT techs for decades, stay on top of technology, and can tell you about every little part that makes up every component-whether its brand X or brand Y. Don't get me wrong, I understand why you want the warranty. If peace of mind cost $125+ per year I'd be in bliss the rest of my life 

I'll leave you with this:
How long have you had the old tower?
How many times did you use the warranty?
How many times did you call MS or anyone else for support?
How many times did you take it in for repairs?

If your not going to build it the best thing to do would be to pay your IT guy $100 on the side to build it with your parts and program it. Then, if ever needed, use the rest of the saved money to shop it, with him on a personal level, or his co.


----------



## jonnyp11 (Aug 1, 2012)

Honest Bill said:


> By GPU, do you mean the 2600K?  MOBO = motherboard?  The motherboard they quoted works for the 2600K?  What size and brand of power supply do I need?  Please feel free to talk down to me ... this is all somewhere between Greek and Spanish to me ... I speak none of the former and very little of the latter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



GPU is graphics processing unit, the 2600k is a cpu or central processing unit, the gpu is for games and stuff like that while an igpu refers to an integrated gpu which refers to the intel HD3000 that is inside the 2600k processor. yes mobo is motherboard, some mobo's don't work with the igpu so they require a graphics card if you want to see what you're doing. the size really doesn't matter for the psu, anything over 300w should do the job, but generally you can get around 500w for only a few bucks more than a reliable 300w so why not get a bit more headroom for the future if you wanted a gpu later.

either motherboard will work fine with either processor, k or not, the only difference is the z68 and 2600k will allow you to overclock the processor, making it go faster than it is made for. this would need an aftermarket cooler though, but or ~30 bucks you get to go from 3.4 or so GHz to about 4.3 to 4.5GHz. if you get the z68 with a 2600 then you can't overclock because of the processor and if you get the b75 and 2600k then the mobo makes it un-overclockable, and 2600 and b75 is all around none overclockable.

that case is fine but a case with cable management is preferred so the wiring runs behind the motherboard and makes it look nicer inside and it will have better airflow.


----------



## Honest Bill (Aug 1, 2012)

Benny Boy said:


> If your asking questions here, about what motherboard, what power supply, what's GPU, etc, and they have spent a "considerable amount of time" with you, then you haven't asked them the right questions and they haven't offered up any answers or comparisoms or info to you for you to have a basis on what your getting, as this forum has. All they've said is 'here's what you need' and when you mentioned warranty, they of course informed you of that money maker for them. We have members here that have been IT techs for decades, stay on top of technology, and can tell you about every little part that makes up every component-whether its brand X or brand Y. Don't get me wrong, I understand why you want the warranty. If peace of mind cost $125+ per year I'd be in bliss the rest of my life



Believe me, I have done a ton of research on my own in addition to chatting with you guys and way more than I ever thought I would.  Yes, they threw a system at me based on what I initially told them.  However, most of the components of the most recent revised system are different than what they initially included, based on my own research and what you guys have offered up.  

Yes, I'm paying a pretty steep price for peace of mind, but it's worth it to me.  I realize that's contrary to the way you guys do things, but again, I only have time to drive the machine.  

Bottom line ... the system is better now, largely in part to you guys.  Thanks


----------



## Honest Bill (Aug 1, 2012)

How long have you had the old tower?  8 years ... Dell Dimension 4600
How many times did you use the warranty?  Zero
How many times did you call MS or anyone else for support?  A handful
How many times did you take it in for repairs?  Zero

Good questions all ... I get the point.



Benny Boy said:


> If your not going to build it the best thing to do would be to pay your IT guy $100 on the side to build it with your parts and program it. Then, if ever needed, use the rest of the saved money to shop it, with him on a personal level, or his co.



Don't know that I feel comfortable doing that under my circumstances, but I would pay one of you guys $100 in a heartbeat to put a system together for me if you lived next door.


----------



## Honest Bill (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks for the GPU/CPU/et al computer lesson, jonnyp11 ... I may get a working knowledge of all this yet.



jonnyp11 said:


> that case is fine but a case with cable management is preferred so the wiring runs behind the motherboard and makes it look nicer inside and it will have better airflow.



What case would you recommend, then?  I was under the impression that the Antec was the Cadillac of the industry.


----------



## Honest Bill (Aug 1, 2012)

*Latest quote.*

1 1292 Lonestar Intel i5 3.3GHz Workstation (Black) 1,395.05 
- Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
- Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Micro-ATX Motherboard
- Intel Core i5-3550 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor
- Kingston 16GB PC3-10600 Memory (4 x 4GB)
- Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC
Internal Solid State Drive
- Western Digital WD1002FAEX Caviar Black 1TB
64MB Cache SATA HDD
- ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS 24X DVD+/-RW
- LITE-ON iHAS424-98 24X SATA DVD+/-RW w/ LightScribe
- AFT PRO-55U All-in-one USB 2.0 Card Reader
- PNY VCGGT4301XPB GeForce GT 430 1GB PCIe
Video Card
- Six USB Ports (2 Front, 4 Rear)
- Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet
- Integrated High Definition Audio
- Microsoft USB Keyboard
- Microsoft USB Mouse
- Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid-Tower Case
- Antec EarthWatts EA-650 GREEN 650W PS
- 3-Year Manufacturer's X-Ship Warranty
2 ET.FV3HP.A02 Acer V243HAJbd 24" LCD Monitor 2 x 191.67 = 383.34
- DVI & VGA Inputs, No Speakers
1 BE750G APC Back-UPS ES 750VA Desktop UPS 103.58 
1 FREIGHT Ground Delivery 70.00 
Sub-Total: 1,951.97
Sales Tax (8.75%): 170.80
Total: 2,122.77


----------



## AntimatterAsh (Aug 1, 2012)

Honest Bill said:


> 1 1292 Lonestar Intel i5 3.3GHz Workstation (Black) 1,395.05
> - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
> - Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Micro-ATX Motherboard
> - Intel Core i5-3550 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor
> ...



Why do you want a UPS? Couldn't find it in the long trail of posts, so sorry if its a dumb question.


----------



## jonnyp11 (Aug 1, 2012)

EclipticShell said:


> Why do you want a UPS? Couldn't find it in the long trail of posts, so sorry if its a dumb question.



if the power cuts then you have time to save and shut the comp off so you don't loose anything.

you still have the gpu i don't think you need and for the case it depends on what kind of look you want, we generally recomend corsair (probs the bently of cases), fractal design (idk), or cooler master (lambo, looks cool and nice)


----------



## Honest Bill (Aug 1, 2012)

EclipticShell said:


> Why do you want a UPS? Couldn't find it in the long trail of posts, so sorry if its a dumb question.



No question about computers is dumb to me...I'm the dumbest guy who posts here. :^)

The UPS will give me a few minutes to shut down properly ... I work remotely from home using software on a server elsewhere and a power outage (we get quite a few) sometimes means I will lose a lot of work ... time is money and there is no greater aggravation than having to redo something that sometimes takes hours to put together.


----------



## Honest Bill (Aug 1, 2012)

jonnyp11 said:


> you still have the gpu i don't think you need and for the case it depends on what kind of look you want, we generally recomend corsair (probs the bently of cases), fractal design (idk), or cooler master (lambo, looks cool and nice)



Looks don't matter to me (heresy, I know) ... not a gamer and only care about durability and functionality ... I was told that the Antec was a tank, so I bit.


----------



## jonnyp11 (Aug 1, 2012)

they're not bad but lian li are supposed to be the best built, meant to put them in there, and they are all professional looking cases other than one or 2 super high end ones, they have a snail shell looking case.


----------



## Honest Bill (Aug 1, 2012)

jonnyp11 said:


> you still have the gpu i don't think you need



The PNY GeForce GT 430?  Why do I not need it?  I was told that it will run 2 monitors very well ... two engines or something ... plus, it's rated very highly at newegg.


----------



## jonnyp11 (Aug 1, 2012)

Honest Bill said:


> The PNY GeForce GT 430?  Why do I not need it?  I was told that it will run 2 monitors very well ... two engines or something ... plus, it's rated very highly at newegg.



do you need 2 monitors? if you do then it will be fine but otherwise it is pointless. and this should do what you want for less money 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131338


----------



## Benny Boy (Aug 1, 2012)

*Caution, lengthy...*

Maybe if you had more ammo when you talked to your builder. Probly wouldn't matter to them but worth a shot.

Did they give you any flack for 64bit since they recommended 32bit? I doubt it since they are going to use it knowing what program(s) its for.

The latest quote:

The mb is on the cheap/lower quality side compared to your total investment/budget. ATX size is better and will fit the 300. For build quality it needs to be in the $120 etail range. Instead of B75, try for Z68 or Z77. Z68/Z77 is better/newer tech of the 3 and altho some features(not to be confused with build quality) are not a requirement for you at this time, motherboard longevity can be worth having. If down the road you want some features Z68/Z77 have, whether its with the other latest quoted components as they are, or with certain upgrades including processor, you'd be not only ready but you won't have to buy a diff mb and Windows, nor have to reinstall Windows and disrupt your programs, data, and os setup. 

IB3550 has a couple features that SB2500 doesn't. You won't use those features at least atm so for all intent and purposes, if you take those features away from 3550, you have a 2500. Same # of cores/same thread count/same stock speed(Ghz). They e-tail cost the same.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5771/the-intel-ivy-bridge-core-i7-3770k-review/2
With all other componets equal a question to the builder might be, would the 2500 cost less for them to build and if so how much. Since I'm sure they put a premium on the ones that have an I and a B, it _should_ cost less. But since they get them for at least the same price as each other, they probly keep that profit built in. On the open market the price diff between 2400 3.1Ghz/2380P 3.1Ghz/2500 3.3Ghz is $20 or less. The diff. for 2500/2500k is $10, 2500/3550 is $0, and 2500K/3570K is $10, with a $40 diff between the lowest and highest. You can see the reason why when its close to $200 the 3570K worth the bit more $. 

What we don't know is how the builder will price's these builds of same components with those various processors.

The current B75 mb doesn't have the features required to take advantage of K and other features.

Judging from the price of the latest quote, they put a pretty high premium on naming/upgrading your parts. No way no how are the changes worth the extra $500. 

Current vs Original:

CPU performance for your use. Gained .3Ghz. Thats it! Which means with your uses there will be zero diff.

MB - Same thing only different. Same price range and same end result as the previous and as mentioned above. Different brand and/or model perhaps. Could be the same mb since we don't know what mb was used in the original quote.

It now has RAM for dual channel operation. Whoopee loll. > With 10600, 10660, and 10666 all being 1333Mhz you've got 10600. Honestly tho, it will perforn well. Some programs respond better to faster memory and I believe that includes yours. If all was fair in love and war, the better 1600Mhz would only be a few bucks more. Also it has 2x as many GB's as are realistic. Beyond 2x4GB won't make it faster or future proof it. Dead money. 2x4gb 1600 @1.5volt(or lower v) will increase performance from said 4x4gb and save some $. Use less power too.

Added the SSD :good: Best move yet. Congradulations 

I see the HDD is now a Western Digital Black FAEX. Nice drive and would be the top pick for many builders because it ranks right up there in speed (for hdd's) and has industry leading 5yr manufacturer's warranty.

Do you need/use 2 cd/dvd drives or are they part of some kind of fluff?

PNY? Meh, not the better but ok at that level. A step down from the 520. Do you think you'll ever want more than 2 monitors? 2 max with either GPU. Intel's HD grapsics will run 2 monitors but if you run across a time when you need a bit more graphical oomph you'll have a tad.

Earthwatts is good. Since it won't have a high powered GPU(the most power hungry part) much less 2 of them as that 650w is capable of, its more dead money unless you want to keep GPU options open or if thats all they offer in the quality dept which I doubt. Certainly they have a respectable 450-500ishW unit instead of the higher priced/overkilling 650w.??

Case + power supply. As noted the 300 cools well but has no way of managing the cables other than using something like peel&stick zip-tie mounts and tieing the cables around case perimiters. A power supply that has all the cables sleeved(instead of 1)would be better for this 300 case, but the bigger factor is how much effort the builder will use since you want unobstructed air flow. No matter the system you get, expressing concern for cable management won't hurt.

They must be far away from you or you would pick it up and save the $70. Which means if it has to be sent in it will take at least several days or longer to get it back? Of course if anything ever did go wrong you could pop in here to see if it was something simple, something that you taking care of wouldn't void the warranty of.

With the latest quote there's quite a bit of unjust exspence and not enough on the motherboard.
_________________________
Two possible ideas:

A. What would be good would be if you could select(not buy because they wouldn't go for that)your own components and they build/warranty it. Even if you had to use thier parts lists you could share that list here, and optimize it.

B. As a base line for parts and pricing, for a system with good a balance of quality and excellent performance, ask them - how much for:
The latest quoted system except,
-A quality Z68 motherboard. 
-i5-2500 
-2x4GB 1600 memory
-Just 1 cd/dvd drive unless you want 2.
-A quality but lower wattage power supply around the 500w (give or take a few) range. Perhaps with sleeved cables but not madatory. 

After asking for that ^ and how much that^ would cost, ask them how much to change only the processor to 2500K, then price for 3570K.
Then either,
A. Post the parts list.
B. Post your findings with details on the mb and ps. 

How does that sound?


----------



## Honest Bill (Aug 1, 2012)

jonnyp11 said:


> do you need 2 monitors?



Yes ... I have the software we use in our business open on one monitor and surf multiple sites on the other ... saves me a lot of time over the course of a day not having to constantly minimize and navigate all that I do using one monitor, and time is money in my biz.  Plus, I'm starting to play around with the market, and the more monitors the better when it comes to that.


----------



## jonnyp11 (Aug 2, 2012)

there are like 6 display capable graphics cards out but they aren't cheap


----------



## Honest Bill (Aug 2, 2012)

*Thanks for the incredibly thorough and detailed analysis of my system quote, Benny Boy ... you guys never cease to amaze me.*

"The mb is on the cheap/lower quality side compared to your total investment/budget. ATX size is better and will fit the 300. For build quality it needs to be in the $120 retail range. Instead of B75, try for Z68 or Z77. Z68/Z77 is better/newer tech of the 3 and altho some features(not to be confused with build quality) are not a requirement for you at this time, motherboard longevity can be worth having. If down the road you want some features Z68/Z77 have, whether its with the other latest quoted components as they are, or with certain upgrades including processor, you'd be not only ready but you won't have to buy a diff mb and Windows, nor have to reinstall Windows and disrupt your programs, data, and os setup."

"The current B75 mb doesn't have the features required to take advantage of K and other features."

*Do I, or will I ever, need K for a non-gaming business machine?

I think I follow your logic, I think ("have to buy a diff Windows"?) ...

cheapest gigabyte Z68 ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128538

cheapest gigabyte Z77 ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128547

cheapest gigabyte Z68/Z77 ... not one at newegg

Do I really need to be worried about this motherboard for a non-gaming business machine for the next 4-5 years.  If so, which lowest price gigabyte board will protect me for the future?*


"Judging from the price of the latest quote, they put a pretty high premium on naming/upgrading your parts. No way no how are the changes worth the extra $500."

*Yeah, it seems like the price has increased disproportionately to the upgrades, but it's for my business and it's a business expense and they will be taking care of any issues and I won't be stuck with downtime, so I'm willing to overlook it ... don't get me wrong, I'm not a spendthrift, but I'm already into this build time-wise much more than I can afford to be ... time is money.*


"It now has RAM for dual channel operation. Whoopee loll. > With 10600, 10660, and 10666 all being 1333Mhz you've got 10600. Honestly tho, it will perforn well. Some programs respond better to faster memory and I believe that includes yours. If all was fair in love and war, the better 1600Mhz would only be a few bucks more. Also it has 2x as many GB's as are realistic. Beyond 2x4GB won't make it faster or future proof it. Dead money. 2x4gb 1600 @1.5volt(or lower v) will increase performance from said 4x4gb and save some $. Use less power too."

*You really lost me here.  So, do I have the right kind of RAM?  Will I not receive any benefit from 16GB or RAM?  I'm confused.*


"Added the SSD :good: Best move yet. Congradulations"

*The plan is to run the OS on the SSD, leaving the WD hard drive for everything else.*


"Do you need/use 2 cd/dvd drives or are they part of some kind of fluff?"

*Not really, but I occasionally burn a CD from another ... the drives are cheap.*


"PNY? Meh, not the better but ok at that level. A step down from the 520. Do you think you'll ever want more than 2 monitors? 2 max with either GPU. Intel's HD grapsics will run 2 monitors but if you run across a time when you need a bit more graphical oomph you'll have a tad."

*There is a possibility that I will want to add a 3rd monitor ... I'm told this video card can handle a 3rd, though it's pushing it.  Is there a better card?  Any considerations other than the video card when adding monitors?*


----------



## Benny Boy (Aug 2, 2012)

-Do I, or will I ever, need K for a non-gaming business machine?

Not right now, but if the price is close now and yrs down the road as/when things change as tech does, that reserved performance could be there saving a cpu upgrade when the time comes. But to answer your question, no doesn't have to be K right now. If in 3 yrs you wanted/needed a litttle more processing power you could just change the cpu. 

-I think I follow your logic, I think ("have to buy a diff Windows"?) ...

Your Windows 7 will be "tied" to the mb its installed to. And the builder will be your MS support. MS doesn't support OEM versions of Windows and they don't allow the product key from the OEM version to be installed on a diff model mb. So your operating system and the mb will always be a pair. Changing the mb from the original Windows install = new Windows license key.
A higher quality mb, along with the added features that higher quality gets you, helps ensure your platform(the mb/cpu/which also dictates memory type) and OS will last through the years as tech and probably needs progress. Would the current B75 be ok through the term of the warranty and as far as functionality? Yeah. Would you wish before or after that you had the tech/features of a better mb for whatevers mainstream at the time? Up to you. I just hate to see you get a $75 mb out of 1.5-2k. They should be dispersing your budget amongst the parts better than they are.

Either of those you mb's you linked. Or if you can do this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128543

-You really lost me here. So, do I have the right kind of RAM? Will I not receive any benefit from 16GB or RAM? I'm confused. 

Yes, you have the right kind of memory ie its DDR3 1333mhz. Your Intel product specs for memory can go to the next level - 1600mhz. You may see better performance from your programs by moving to 1600. And to give you an idea, a gaming rig doesn't use 8gb of memory while playing intense games. So, the proposed build with its 16gb of 1333 wouldn't perform as well for you as 8gb of 1600mhz and with fewer memory sicks you'll be using less power. Memory is cheap and builders get it even cheaper. Putting or advertising 16GB RAM looks good to the public who thinks more it will make the pc faster. If you have a 1/2 tank and it takes a 1/4 tank to get there, filling it up won't get you there faster Have them change it to 2x4gb 1600mhz and they should charge you less too. So yep, you have compatible RAM, and no 16GB won't benifit you.

-There is a possibility that I will want to add a 3rd monitor ... I'm told this video card can handle a 3rd, though it's pushing it. Is there a better card? Any considerations other than the video card when adding monitors?

No other considerations, and this card is a pretty good step up from 430. With the 3 connectors types it has you can run 3 monitors and still have some reserve graphics power. Its has Eyefinity as well. 
As compared to PNY 430
440/6670 comparisom

I wonder what the fee would be for one of those Gigabyte boards, i5 2500, 8gb 1600, the 6670, and less watts.


----------



## Honest Bill (Aug 2, 2012)

> -You really lost me here. So, do I have the right kind of RAM? Will I not receive any benefit from 16GB or RAM? I'm confused.
> 
> Yes, you have the right kind of memory ie its DDR3 1333mhz. Your Intel product specs for memory can go to the next level - 1600mhz. You may see better performance from your programs by moving to 1600. And to give you an idea, a gaming rig doesn't use 8gb of memory while playing intense games. So, the proposed build with its 16gb of 1333 wouldn't perform as well for you as 8gb of 1600mhz and with fewer memory sicks you'll be using less power. Memory is cheap and builders get it even cheaper. Putting or advertising 16GB RAM looks good to the public who thinks more it will make the pc faster. If you have a 1/2 tank and it takes a 1/4 tank to get there, filling it up won't get you there faster Have them change it to 2x4gb 1600mhz and they should charge you less too. So yep, you have compatible RAM, and no 16GB won't benifit you.



*Now that's the kind of info I needed ... what about this memory?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104173*


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## Honest Bill (Aug 2, 2012)

*Windows 7 Home or Pro?*

One more related thing about memory ... am I correct in saying that the only advantage to Pro for my application is that you are not limited to 16GB of memory, as you are with Home?  If so, is that reason enough to fork up the extra $50 to get Pro?


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## Benny Boy (Aug 2, 2012)

The only thing different from what you linked is, 1.5 volt or lower to stay within Intel specs, and it doesn't mean it will run slower.

For what your doing with this pc you'll have to come up with some RAM hogging uses to need more than 8gb let alone 16. So, no to 64bit Pro just for memory. But... 
Here's Premium/Pro. Among the few diffs is a networking feature and remote host. Since your builder is your IT, they will know if Pro has any "other than RAM" features you need for work or home.


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## Honest Bill (Aug 2, 2012)

Benny Boy said:


> The only thing different from what you linked is, 1.5 volt or lower to stay within Intel specs, and it doesn't mean it will run slower.



*So, is the memory I linked better or the one you linked?*



Benny Boy said:


> For what your doing with this pc you'll have to come up with some RAM hogging uses to need more than 8gb let alone 16. So, no to 64bit Pro just for memory. But...
> Here's Premium/Pro. Among the few diffs is a networking feature and remote host. Since your builder is your IT, they will know if Pro has any "other than RAM" features you need for work or home.



*Exactly what would cause me to ever want to have more than 16GB of RAM for a non-gaming business machine?*


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## Benny Boy (Aug 2, 2012)

Just a sec, let me get my sunglasses on .......ahh, that's better 



Honest Bill said:


> So, is the memory I linked better or the one you linked?





Benny Boy said:


> 1.5 volt or lower to stay within Intel specs.





Honest Bill said:


> **Exactly what would cause me to ever want to have more than 16GB of RAM for a non-gaming business machine?... ... other than working remotely in WinTOTAL, I store and play with photos quite a bit, surf the net a lot with many windows open at once, play the market a bit with dual monitors, and listen to music while I'm doing it all.


 
'Non-gaming' isn't really a reference > 16gb since [while in game] will use maybe 5gb.

You stated other uses besides work so this is a home pc as well. And none of that multitask use on 2 or 3 screens will need more than 8gb. 

**If you or anyone else that uses the pc will do anything besides what you've already mentioned above then only you or them knows what that is/would be. 

Video editing is an example of a RAM hungry task and can be done with 8gb. The size of the edit would determin if more than 8gb would be helpful.




Benny Boy said:


> So, no to 64bit Pro just for memory.


Because everything gathered from you in this thread says 8gb is plenty and that the need for more isn't there.

16gb is a TON of memory. I don't blame you for wondering since pre-builders use 16gb left and right as a marketing tool. Premium is fine as long as you don't need any of the other features the other versions have.


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## Honest Bill (Aug 3, 2012)

*What about this memory?*

"The only thing different from what you linked is, 1.5 volt or lower to stay within Intel specs, and it doesn't mean it will run slower."

*Is this just as good for my system as the memory you suggest as linked above?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104173*


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## Jiniix (Aug 3, 2012)

Honest Bill said:


> cheapest gigabyte Z68/Z77 ... not one at newegg



Cute 



Honest Bill said:


> One more related thing about memory ... am I correct in saying that the only advantage to Pro for my application is that you are not limited to 16GB of memory, as you are with Home?  If so, is that reason enough to fork up the extra $50 to get Pro?



http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz71/Jiniix/AdvancedWindows7Comparison.png

It's a list of all the features of all the different Windows 7s.

For example, as it was mentioned a lot, you don't get Windows XP Mode.


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