# Help settle a small disagreement please.



## Okedokey

A question to solve an argument.

Is this PSU

Casecom 350W ATX (12A on 12V rail) sufficient for these components:

CASECOM MID GAMING CASE
GIGABYTE GA-870A-UD3 MOTHERBOARD
AMD ATHLON II X3 450 CPU 3.2GHZ
KINGSTON HYPER DDR3 4GB,NVIDIA GEFORCE 9600GT
OCZ VERTEX SSD 64GB,SAMSUNG SPINPOINT HDD 1TB
SONY DL DVD-RW 24X,CASECOM 350W PSU
WINDOWS 7 64 BIT

?

Apparently according to some, it is. http://www.computerforum.com/198100-windows-help-please.html#post1651381

You know my thoughts though....


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## FuryRosewood

if seasonic made that psu, probably but a 12 dollar psu powering 300+ dollars worth of equiptment? &$*# no. a 400W or 350W antec would probably cover it fine tho. ive ran a 125W cpu, 4 gig ram and a pair of 9800GTX+ cards off a 550W rosewill, however it cost more than 40 bucks...i think i paid 70 for it at the time.


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## claptonman

It has enough power to run it, yes, but I would advice, like fury, to stay far away from it. You don't want to go cheap on a power supply.


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## Okedokey

claptonman said:


> It has enough power to run it, yes, but I would advice, like fury, to stay far away from it. You don't want to go cheap on a power supply.



12A is insufficient for any pcie card.  period.


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## PohTayToez

12A is pretty underpowered.  I'm sure the system runs and it may continue to for a while but that PSU is gonna pop eventually.


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## Okedokey

PohTayToez said:


> 12A is pretty underpowered.  I'm sure the system runs and it may continue to for a while but that PSU is gonna pop eventually.



totally agree.


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## claptonman

Yeah, I don't know anything about power supplies other than watts, so disregard my post. I saw the argument in the original thread and you know a lot more about this than a lot of people.


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## diduknowthat

Casecom? No. A quality brand Seasonic 350 watt powersupply? Absolutely. People tend to over-estimate the amount of power a computer needs.


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## jamesd1981

every psu will burnout eventually no matter if it`s cheap or expensive sooner or later, BANG !

dont know why your still goin on about it bigfella, anyone thats read the original thread
http://www.computerforum.com/198100-windows-help-please-2.html#post1651381

can see you were so sure how crap this psu was you came up with a test you thought would blow it, needless to say it didn`t, so my point was proved, yes it will eventually pop but so will they all


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## Okedokey

nothing has been proved james except how little you understand psus.


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## jamesd1981

you came up with test bigfella, so either your test was poor in the first place so what was the point in suggesting it, or you just didn`t like the result, you laid out requirement after requirement, i ran all the software, i posted all the proof and results, so the psu had a thorough stress test as did everything else and the machines still running perfect, you can`t argue with that.

this was never about is the psu not as powerful as it could have been, it`s about does the machine run normally and it is


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## jamesd1981

There only three questions to ask

1. was the test you came up with a competent stress test ? ?
2. did my machine fail ? no
3. did the 3d mark show any problems ? no


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## Okedokey

Excuse me?  I thought we had agreed to disagree, you come back and start this again?

I asked you to run Prime95 and 3Dmark06 concurrently for an hour.  You didn't do this and even if it didn't fail doesnt mean much.   12A is not enough mate, and advocating that it is is likely to attract heat around here from mods, especially when the CF PSU guide doesn't recommend anything below 18A for a discrete gpu system.

Keep your guess work to yourself and your (ahem) customers...


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## PohTayToez

Sure, every power supply is going to burn out eventually but it's the cheapos that like to take other components with them.


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## jamesd1981

we had agreed to disagree and you started i whole new thread on the subject, you might know what your talking about bigfella but your still full of it !

i ran the test concurrently with prime, 3dmark, smartdefrag and was still browsing the net, i couldn`t have put much more stress on the machine and it didn`t FAIL deal with it


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## jamesd1981

PohTayToez said:


> Sure, every power supply is going to burn out eventually but it's the cheapos that like to take other components with them.



yes they might poh, but am i right in thinking that alot of the secondary damage would depend on how much pressure is on the psu at the time of the pop i.e. during heavy gaming etc, i have never had a psu blow so im not sure, but i would imagine the more stress the bigger the pop ?


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## Okedokey

jamesd1981 said:


> yes they might poh, but am i right in thinking that alot of the secondary damage would depend on how much pressure is on the psu at the time of the pop i.e. during heavy gaming etc, i have never had a psu blow so im not sure, but i would imagine the more stress the bigger the pop ?



No, do you have any electrical or electronics training at all?



jamesd1981 said:


> we had agreed to disagree and you started i whole new thread on the subject, you might know what your talking about bigfella but your still full of it !



I started this thread 7 hours ago while you were still insisting that your gpu didnt take power from the psu because it didn't have a pcie power connector.  If you had've acutally read the posts you would know that because i told you then and gave you a link.  I might be full of it (understanding), but you just work with guesses and words like  heavy and other such nonsense.  Im talking about current (amps) and your recommendation to ignore physics.

Ok answer this directly (as this is the root argument).  Do you think a cheap, generic power supply unit with 12A on the 12V rail is sufficient for a system with a pcie graphics card?


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## jamesd1981

no you twist the convo to suit bigfella, i said its not directly connected to the psu which its not as you said its going through the mobo not a direct cable.

i can only assume your test design was poor then ?


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## Okedokey

jamesd1981 said:


> no you twist the convo to suit bigfella, i said its not directly connected to the psu which its not as you said its going through the mobo not a direct cable.
> 
> i can only assume your test design was poor then ?






jamesd1981 said:


> ... secondly i do not have the graphics card connected to the psu there is no need for me to do that, i already said im not a gamer.



Hello? http://www.computerforum.com/198100-windows-help-please.html#post1651395 post 19

It makes no difference, the card draws from the 12V rail regardless.  You were suggesting somehow there was no additional load because i didn't have a pcie power cable.

Mate as i have said 100 times now, its basic physics:

GPU - 59W (5A)
CPU - 95W (8A)
HDD - ~14W (1.2A)
Fans, mobo etc etc +more 

So even the above max example = around 15A on the 12V rail - yours has 12A and at that point it fails or shuts down.

Not very wise imho, regardless of how much you convince yourself it will be fine.  Cheap PSUs such as the awful Casecom 350WATX are designed for 5V predominate systems, thats without a PCIe card.


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## jamesd1981

no i didn`t say it used any less power, i said i was directly connected via cable.

The simple fact is if i had run those stress test and the psu had blown, you would have quite rightly said, I TOLD YOU SO, but on the same hand it didn`t blow or crash etc so you are not big enough to say it maybe be under powered if pushed to the limit alot, but for my light use it is obviously fine

and just to add going on the 3d mark results it didn`t even struggle, because i ran the same test on my son`s system with another casecom psu, it has win 7 64, intel duo core, 4gb ddr2, and a cheapo gpu  and it struggled so theres the difference


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## Okedokey

jamesd1981 said:


> no i didn`t say it used any less power, i said i was directly connected via cable.



Yes you did.   As shown below, you only included the CPU power (this is after i explained the amp distribution for the components), not the GPU, because clearly you thought no additional load would be added because there was no pcie power cable.   



jamesd1981 said:


> well number one i don`t know what psu you think i have got but it is actually a 12A, secondly i do not have the graphics card connected to the psu there is no need for me to do that, i already said im not a gamer.
> 
> so 12a psu with an 8a cpu leaves 4a does it not



No, fail, 12A - 8A - 5A - 1.2A etc = not enough.  Remove the PCIe card and you're at about 95% of rated power during use.


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## jamesd1981

you have yet to awnser if you test was competent ?


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## Okedokey

Lol, thats all you've got?  Because I asked you to test your computer with 3Dmark06 and prime95 - AND it didn't fail, you're vindicated?  Lol, you seriously have a lot to learn.  Just goes to show, anyone can build and sell computers.


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## jamesd1981

bigfellla said:


> Yes you did.   As shown below, you only included the CPU power (this is after i explained the amp distribution for the components), not the GPU, because clearly you thought no additional load would be added because there was no pcie power cable.
> 
> 
> 
> No, fail, 12A - 8A - 5A - 1.2A etc = not enough.  Remove the PCIe card and you're at about 95% of rated power during use.



so going by your numbers as soon as i turn my pc on im running the psu over 100%, so that stress test should have blown it sky high, especially with it being such a pos


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## Okedokey

You really don't get this do you?


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## jamesd1981

bigfellla said:


> Lol, thats all you've got?  Because I asked you to test your computer with 3Dmark06 and prime95 - AND it didn't fail, you're vindicated?  Lol, you seriously have a lot to learn.  Just goes to show, anyone can build and sell computers.



now your dismissing your own test, you asked because you were pretty sure it would blow and simply it didn`t


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## jamesd1981

bigfellla said:


> You really don't get this do you?



i get it fine bigfella, you are going on and on about numbers this n that, iam not saying the psu is the greatest psu in the world, i am saying it is decent no more than that

My machine isn`t a crap spec and does that psu run it fully, yes it does i have the screen resolution at highest setting, i do alot of dvd ripping, file conversion, photo editing etc, does my computer ever struggle to run any software or perform any task, the simple awnser is no so whats the big deal


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## Okedokey

WOW< what a great outcome.  Your computer has 'worked' for (in your words 'weeks').  You are literally playing russian roulette.  The problem i have is in this and several other posts you're recommending that others do the same.  That and (god help us) the fact that you build computers seemingly for a living.

Yet here, you're recommending an 850W for a core i5/i3 system with 4gb ram.

Second post in the above link:



jamesd1981 said:


> well for a start why dont you look at either quad core or intel i5 cpu and a ddr3 graphics card with 512 or even 1gb onboard and id say 850 w psu and plenty of brand name ram like crucial etc ?



You're a builder and you think modern GPUs come with GDDR3?  Also, quad core OR i5?  What?  All (bar 1 - 2390T) of the 2nd gen i5's are quads.  You build computers for people?  This just goes to your knowledge and understanding, and ultimately your credibility.

Yet here you're saying an 8 pound ($15) PSU is fine

You have no credibility whatsoever.


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## jamesd1981

bigfellla said:


> WOW< what a great outcome.  Your computer has 'worked' for (in your words 'weeks').  You are literally playing russian roulette.  The problem i have is in this and several other posts you're recommending that others do the same.  That and (god help us) the fact that you build computers seemingly for a living.
> 
> Yet here, you're recommending an 850W for a core i5/i3 system with 4gb ram.
> 
> Yet here you're saying an 8 pound ($15) PSU is fine
> 
> You have no credibility whatsoever.



there you go again bigfella my current machine is only weeks old, but if you go back and read the original thread, i have built around 50 desktops using the same psu and NEVER had a failure, they range in age up to almost two years old, so can you please explain why if mine is going to pop very soon why has there not been one single failure on any of the other machines.

As for the above links the top one i said a quad core cpu hence the better psu, the bottom one there is no spec so how do you know its not to power some old pentium 4 cpu with onboard graphics, well lets guess the psu runs a pc my spec but its still under powered for an old pent 4 system. no doubt


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## Okedokey

No credibility whatsoever.


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## Okedokey

Im finished with this, you can argue your case with someone else, its really getting boring.


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## jamesd1981

you can spout out all the numbers you want, 50 systems without a single failure is rock hard proof not one or two, but 50 !


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## Okedokey

You may have built 50 PCs with rubbish PSU's but that is hardly indicative that you have a clue.

For example (add it to the list):



jamesd1981 said:


> As for the above links the top one i said a quad core cpu hence the better psu, the bottom one there is no spec so how do you know its not to power some old pentium 4 cpu...



So let me get this straight, because it has a quad core, it needs an 850W PSU, but with an old Pentium 4 a 8 pound cheapo PSU is fine?  And don't give me this graphics card rubbish, it was post 2, nothing mentioned about graphics when you said an 850W quad core or quad core system.

So ok, a quad core i5 has a TDP of (max) 95W.
A pentium 4 (max) has a TDP of  115W.

Again you fail.   A pentium 4 would require a better PSU>  SHeesh you need to learn your trade.


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## jamesd1981

you are right it is getting boring bigfella, i stressed my pos shit psu and it didnt fail and you can say its because the psu is new, but i did the exact same test with the same psu but it is one and a half years old so it`s not new its had quite a decent shelf life and still made it through the stress test fine after a year of use attached is the spec of this pc which is not some ancient low power system, so explain how firstly its lasted a year and half and can still under go the stress test and secondly is 50 system not a pretty reliable number for a field test of these power supplys ?


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## Okedokey

Ok so in summary, its ok to recommend an 8 quid rubbish psu because...

"ive done it 50 times, it didnt break, so its fine, so ill keep doing it" regardless of the facts.

Ok, point taken.  I don't agree and I doubt anyone else here with a clue would either.


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## jamesd1981

i am not recommending an 8 quid psu to everyone as you pointed out further up ^^

but the fact i have used the psu 50 times over a 2 year period speaks for itself, how many people have bought a branded psu and it has blown within two years ? PLENTY !


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## Okedokey

jamesd1981 said:


> i am not recommending an 8 quid psu to everyone as you pointed out further up ^^



Again, fail, do you just write whatever comes to your mind? Or do you genuinely forget?



jamesd1981 said:


> if you are getting no power at all it is most likely a blown psu
> try www.ebuyer.com they have power supplys from £8.00



Oh and since i have spent my whole night educating you on PSUs - why stop there?  In English, when you have a multiple of something ending with 'y' its ies.  So its supplies, not supplys, unless of course its possessive, which requires the apostrophe, but not relevant in this case (e.g. the Casecom power supply's rubbish build quality).


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## jamesd1981

bigfellla said:


> Again, fail, do you just write whatever comes to your mind? Or do you geniunely forget?
> 
> 
> 
> btw, in english, when you have a multiple of something ending with 'y' its ies.  So its supplies, not supplys.



your clutching at straws bigfella, now were onto grammar, is supplys not shorter than supplies for the same word, yet again whats the difference who cares about such a petty thing.

wasted enough time on this i will rest easy knowing my 50 pos power supplys are all still operating well and that my own will most likely outlast yours

Next time you challenge someone to run a test to prove your point either ask them to run it for a week or except the result


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## Okedokey

fail.


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## jamesd1981

yeah so you keep saying, the only thing about here that didn`t fail was my psu


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## StrangleHold

Casecom makes pretty cheap lowend power supplies. They sell so cheap because they use really cheap components. In reality the case and fan probably cost them more then the internal components.

Your not doing yourself or your customers justice by using them, whether or not they have blown or not. They are pretty much bargain basement power supplies.

If you want to go cheapo on power supplies atleast go for for something like Coolmax/E-Power or Topower/Rosewill/Ultra. Dont even like those, but they are better quality then Casecom.


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## Okedokey

james, i want to apoogise for any retarded thing i said last night (it was 6 am here after no sleep - im sick), but i stick by my assessment of that psu and its likely impacts.


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## jamesd1981

hey no problem bigfella, as i said i see your point i do realize as stranglhold said above the psu is a cheap budget unit, but it`s easy for somone to comment on a product they have not used , they base their conclusiuon on price, rating or what they have heard, if you were evaluating a new product you would buy say 10 and see how it went, if you had alot of faults you would say i am not buying that product again, but if it went well you may well purchase more as 10 is a decent guide test.

as i said i have 50 of these psu out there and so far no problems or damage, and that is not 50 new in the last few weeks, they have had 2 years to show any problems, and as said we have all read posts with branded psu blow ups in less than a two year period.

as agreed previously i will post if my psu blows, but i will also post if any of the 50 others blow, but i have taken notice of your opinion and value it so with my own machine it is the most powerful system i have used the psu for, so i will test the psu once a month using my digital psu tester to keep a close eye on it and hopefully pick up any problems early as it ages.


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## MMM

James1981... consider your self lucky using that PSU as it must be one exceptional piece of electronics.
Ask any one you know who is qualified in Electrical/Electronics and they will tell you by the specs you quoted that the PSU is not really up to the task you are using it for.
It will be a matter of time before it fails and I hope the consequences do not kill, maim or injure you or any one else as it is a dangerous practice in using underrated electrical equipment in applications.

Why I say this!  I'm  a qualified Electrician who has seen the consequences of fools who they think know better until it is too late.... harsh words but reality....


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## Perkomate

jamesd1981 said:


> every psu will burnout eventually no matter if it`s cheap or expensive sooner or later, BANG !
> 
> dont know why your still goin on about it bigfella, anyone thats read the original thread
> http://www.computerforum.com/198100-windows-help-please-2.html#post1651381
> 
> can see you were so sure how crap this psu was you came up with a test you thought would blow it, needless to say it didn`t, so my point was proved, yes it will eventually pop but so will they all



yes, they will all eventually pop, but yours will expire a hell of a lot sooner than ours. Just because one test didn't make it fail, doesn't mean that it will last a long time. It may go bang the next time you run a test, or whatever. Just please don't come onto a forum asking for help then disregard everything that's been said


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## jamesd1981

Perkomate said:


> yes, they will all eventually pop, but yours will expire a hell of a lot sooner than ours. Just because one test didn't make it fail, doesn't mean that it will last a long time. It may go bang the next time you run a test, or whatever. Just please don't come onto a forum asking for help then disregard everything that's been said



actually perko if you read the start of the original thread i did not ask for any help ! it was someone asking about installing an ssd and moving files and because i put forward what i thought was a simpler way of doing it, someone needlessly made a comment about my psu i didn`t ask anything, so please read threads properly before commenting


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## Okedokey

Well if you have a 12A POS PSU on a computer forum you're asking for that advice trust me...  but of course everyone else doesn't have a clue and james does.


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## Perkomate

ok, i take my comment back. you did not ask for help. instead, you said that a heap of people in the forum are wrong, and that's its alright to get a 20 buck PSU to power a discrete GPU system.

-edit-






thought it was appropriate


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## Okedokey

leave it perk, let him power his pos pc with a pos psu.  no issue for us when it goes boom.  at least then we don't hear from him for a while


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## jamesd1981

I have tried till im pretty sick, trying to keep this to a 2 sided discussion !

I have acknowledged the psu is not anything other than a low end BUDGET psu.

yes there is a reputation about cheap budget psus, but i have already explained it is not one of this model of psu that i have tried for 5 minutes and making a judgement on it, i am not some newbie i have used these psu for 2 long years and so far had no short time failures, but the psu is now besides the point.

what i am suprised at is this all started because i dared to give a different way  of installing an ssd than bigfella and he spat his dummy out the pram and looked for some reason to be petty.

I have been on this site for quite a while and never had a problem before, and as for not hearing from me again take the time to read through my posts and you will see over my time here on cf i have contributed many posts, gave people the correct solutions to their problems and had many nice people take the time to thank me for my help, which i will continue to do.

bigfella you don`t need to hear from me no ones forcing you to read any of my posts or threads.

But bigfella theres was no need for your original comment, do you usually look through peoples signatures to find fault ? No it`s because your a petty little man that has a thin skin and was somehow offended or insulted by the fact i dared post after you with an alternative option for how to do the ssd and file transfer.


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## mihir

Funny thread  james trying to go against physics just based on his daredevil stunts.

Just don't pull these stunts on your ignorant customers.


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## johnb35

Ok, this has gone on long enough and should have never been made in the first place.  If a user wants to use a cheap psu to power his systems then so be it.  You offered your advice and he can either follow it or not.

thread closed.


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