# Cable RG-6 broadband surge protection?



## Rob Hawkins

Tons of surge suppressors and line filters for 120vac power. But I can't find anything (good) for protecting my cable internet RG-6 coax line. I assume CATV filters are one directional. Internet coax signals go both ways.
Anything good out there within a reasonable price ($100-$200)?
Lightning wiped out my computer last summer.
Thanks,
Rob


----------



## johnb35

Meaning something like this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812107196


----------



## tremmor

I have a couple Belkin 900A still. covers most hook up and power.
Sure the newer ones are better though and expanded available.


----------



## Rob Hawkins

*What about this one?*

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882303041&Tpk=APC C10BLK


----------



## johnb35

If it has what you want then get it.   There are no reviews for it so it must be a new item.  

I had to go to APC's website to get better pics of it.  Seems like it would work really well.


----------



## westom

Rob Hawkins said:


> Tons of surge suppressors and line filters for 120vac power. But I can't find anything (good) for protecting my cable internet RG-6 coax line. I assume CATV filters are one directional. Internet coax signals go both ways.


  Because it is called a surge protect*or* proves it does surge protection?  Most only believe what they are ordered to believe.  That is enough to know?  Nonsense. That is how scams are promoted.

 No protector does protection.  None.  But those who know blindly what they are told know otherwise.  

  The NIST (US government research agency) says what every protector does (and why that Belkin does not even claim protection in its numeric specs):
> You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it.  What
> these protective devices do is neither suppress nor arrest a surge, but
> simply divert it to ground, where it can do no harm. 

  Will your protector stop what three miles of sky could not?  That is what a Belkin will magically do.  But as the NIST says, protection is an earth ground.  Where do hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate?  Inside that protector?  Nonsense. Read its specs.  Not possible.

  Either a protector connects massive energy harmlessly to earth.  Or it does absolutely nothing (like the Belkin).  No protector does protection.  A protector connects surges to earth.  And yes, this must be repeated so many times because advertising makes it difficult to understand.  A protector is only effective when it connects that surge current harmlessly to earth.

  Your cable needs no protector.  No protector is necessary to make a connection to earth.  Cable is connected by a wire.  What a protector might do is done better by a 12 AWG wire.  But only if that wire is short, has no sharp bends, is not inside metallic conduit and other critically important electrical facts.  Facts completely unknown to many who would recommend that Belkin.

  The entire and best protector - that wire from RG-6 to earth - must be installed by the cable tech.  Is required by the National Electrical Code.  And must connect to the same earth ground also used by the AC electric 'whole house' protector.  Any rule violation means an entire protection system is compromised.

  But this is a most important fact from all posts combined.  Single point earth ground is your protection.  A protector either connects short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth (as defined by the NIST).  Or you have no protection. That Belkin has no wire for an always required connection to earth. And does not even claim to provide that protection.

  Don’t worry about a protector.  Worry about the only thing that always does protection.  Single point earth ground.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

  That also applies to all AC mains protectors.  Either you have earthed one 'whole house' protector. Then protected everything even from a direct lightning strike.  Or that AC mains protector does not even claim protection in its specs.  But again, from over 100 years of well proven science.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.


----------



## Rob Hawkins

So that's why they put the cable box next to my main electrical service and tied into the main grounding conductor. :good:
Thank you all for helping,
Rob


----------



## westom

Rob Hawkins said:


> So that's why they put the cable box next to my main electrical service and tied into the main grounding conductor.


Your would have known that if your peers knew that.  Almost nobody does because so many are literally 'brainwashed' by knowledge from advertising. Which means they never ask why - the damning questions.  Only recite what they are ordered to believe.  They would not know about that always critically important earthing.

  Next paragraphs will be complex; too difficult for some layman.

  Inside that box is only a ground block.  An item sold in Lowes or Home Depot for less than $2.  A coupler with a screw to attach a wire.  That box only keeps a ground block dry.  Why do so many peers not even know about what is inside that box - and why?

  Follow a wire from the ground block to earth. It must be routed seperate from any other wire.  Must connect as short as possible (ie 'less than 10 feet') to that earth ground rod.  Must not have sharp bends. Any violation subverts the surge protection. And since those simple rules are so complex, already many layman have literally 'tuned out'.  Already it is too complex.  Easier is to let a retail salesman promote a 'magic box'.

  Appreciate why you did not know what does surge protection for a cable.  Things so complex as to (maybe) not be known by any of your friends.  Because there is no 'magic box', then many just cannot grasp the difference between massive protection and an ineffective scam inside a 'magic box'.

  Well, single point earth ground with a 'short as possible' connection was how is was done over 100 years ago so that operators were not killed by direct lightning strikes via their headsets.  Knowledge was that well understood.  But since most can be told how to think by advertising, then most have no idea of what really does surge protection.

  The rule was always this simple. Some protection systems have no protectors. Every effective solution has that single point earth ground.   A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.


----------



## Rob Hawkins

I also know what an MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor) does. That's what's inside a surge protector. My first experience with one was nearly thirty years ago when my co-worker wired a 380vac transformer primary to a 460vac supply. It blew out the MOVs but saved the machine circuits.
Lightning hit our street light once and blew the Ethernet circuit on my motherboard. I assumed it came in through the cable coax. But it may have entered through the power circuit. Anyway, not much can be done with a direct lightning strike. My homeowners insurance is pretty good protection. My deductible is about the same as a "good" surge protector. I already have this one and it didn't save anything...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812102407
Take a chance. Columbus and Armstrong did.
Rob


----------



## tremmor

buy what ya can afford. My Belkin warranty expired for all. Its surge protection as mentioned. It did have a warranty for damage to items but expired. A lightening bolt might be a million volts and that ain't stopping nothing. That would or could easily wipe everything. Furnace, stereos, computers, fridge or freezers. makes no diff. 

On the other hand i always record dates, times and what you know about it. Sometime electric companys are responsible maybe when putting power in and a surge or a electric bolt which could be turned into the insurance. got to have the information and track for reference. then again all mine is underground all of it in this area. its always related to a outage  with the company and might even pull out power waiting for the lights to go on.
Then knock the main back in. to prevent the surge. just a thought.

the only reason i turned into insurance is because of power outage related to a tornado. 
lost power for a week. had a freezer full of food. steaks burgers. went up and down the street then introduced my self. invited everybody for a free meal. you help cook it and bring your own beer.
also took pictures of the newspaper related to the incident. that was paid by the insurance. 
life is good. that was 40 yrs ago. everybody brought over there food or gave away and had a block party for a week. i new everybody then.


----------



## westom

Rob Hawkins said:


> Anyway, not much can be done with a direct lightning strike.


  Your telco's Central Office (CO) is connected to buildings throughout town. Therefore suffers about 100 surges with each thunderstorm.  As you said, nothing can protect from direct lightning strikes.  Therefore your town is routinely without telephones for four days while they replace their computer?  Of course not.  Routine is to suffer direct lightning strikes without damage.   MOVs inside a 'whole house' protector also must be undamaged.  Protection from direct lightning strikes is that routine.  Or how many explosions occur in munitions dumps during each thunderstorm?

  Best protection for cable is a shortest connection to earth via a copper wire.  Telephone and AC electric wires cannot make a direct connection.  So a 'whole house' protector makes that short connection to earth.

  Average lightning strike is 20,000 amps.  So homeowners may buy a Cutler-Hammer 'whole house' protector in Lowes or Home Depot that is rated for 50,000 amps.  Because direct lightning strikes (and other lesser surges) must not even damage a protector.  Protection has been that routine.  But only if you know by first learning well proven science and numbers.

  Protection from direct lightning strikes means protectors from better manufacturers such as General Electric, Siemens, Intermatic, Leviton, ABB, and Square D - to name but a few.   Each protector has the one item always required for protection.  A short and dedicated wire to single point earth ground.  Because - and again - a protector is only as effective as the only thing that does surge protection:  single point earth ground.

  View specs for that Newegg protector.  Under Details are specs.  It claims to absorb 3600 joules.  Which means it will absorb only 1200 joules and never more than 2400.  Meanwhile, a destructive surge is hundreds of thousands of joules.  Informed consumers learn from spec numbers.  Its thousand joules will magically absorb hundreds of thousands of joules?  Nonsense.  The myth: without a short connection to single point earth ground - it is surge protection only because they called it a surge protector.  Your telco would never waste that many times more money on an ineffective protector.  Telcos must suffer 100 surges without damage.  Telcos connect every wire, as short as possible, to single point ground. 

  And locate protectors up to 50 meters distant from electronics.  Separation  increases protection.  Because direct lightning strikes must cause no damage.  Informed consumers do same.


----------



## tremmor

Agreed............no argument.
forgot but looked at your manufactures and they are commercial and industrial.
He's talking about voltaic arc faults. you can buy the breakers. the manufactures he said is good for surge and i have them. thats what i have.
well said.

the other manufactures you mentioned are excellent and commercial grade all. i have sq d.
Might be required from the city or state as code or a supplemental code over and above the the NEC.


----------



## westom

tremmor said:


> Agreed............no argument.
> forgot but looked at your manufactures and they are commercial and industrial.
> He's talking about voltaic arc faults. you can buy the breakers.


Between run on sentences and reference to an irrelevant voltaic arc fault, I am not sure what was posted.  Apparently you are confusing circuit breakers with something completely different - a suppressor or filter.

  OP asked about surge suppressors and filters to block surges.  Neither do effective protection. Posted was what every effective protector must do:
> simply divert it to ground, where it can do no harm. 

  No breaker does that. And no plug-in protector does that.  Anything that might block a surge (ie a breaker or power strip) simply gets blown through.  Or cannot respond fast enough. Neither are effective surge protection.

 A best solution for an RG-6 cable is a $2 ground block connected short to what does protection: earth ground.  The word 'divert' was important. Breakers do not divert anything.  Any wire that cannot connect direct to ground must make a same connection via a 'whole house' protector.

 A circuit breaker for arc faults is called an AFCI.  It does no surge protection.  Is irrelevant to the OP's question.  And is irrelevant to all other incoming wires that also must be included in an effective protection 'system'.

 Code does not require surge protectors.  Code is about human safety.  Surge protection is about something completely different - transistor safety.  As the NIST says, an effective solution diverts to ground.


----------



## pir8radio

*Surge fun!*

So if i just ground my incoming catv line (shield) like code says (for life and safety not equipment protection) how does the center conductor surge get "diverted"?   That is generally where a gas tube surge arrester comes in. We use them on both ends of the CO Frame pairs to protect the CO equipment and the customers equipment.  CATV has similar gas tube surge arrester.  These arresters still need to be grounded well like the other guy said, but they do provide some protection from center conductor surges, especially if they are down the line a bit.  Just grounding the shielding wont protect the equipment from a center conductor surge.  Just my two cents from 20 years as a CO architect and electrical engineer, I wont be back to review any responses, was just surfing the net when i ran across this post..  Wanted to put in some info for any future readers..   A cheap surge "protector" is sometimes better than none.


----------



## tremmor

i agree. no argument and maybe i was out of line with my comment. something is better than nothing. if getting struck with a million volt lightening bolt you will blow everything. loosing power and turned back on is another story. thats a surge.
get something, anything.

i got carried away with arc fault. not appropriate but will keep house from burning down. 
Maybe. just from an electrical standpoint.


----------



## westom

pir8radio said:


> So if i just ground my incoming catv line (shield) like code says (for life and safety not equipment protection) how does the center conductor surge get "diverted"?   That is generally where a gas tube surge arrester comes in. We use them on both ends of the CO Frame pairs to protect the CO equipment and the customers equipment.


  COs worry about even the tiniest transients.  Are so anal about doing what is necessary as to even have multiple ground layers.  Cables may travel the last 50 feet into a CO inside another shield.  Even air duct are integrated into the protection system. Sneak paths are everywhere.  COs deal with at least 100 surges during every storm - and no damage.  No consumer has anywhere near those requirements. Consumers do not have a facility where a hundred thousand wires create new problems.

   Surges on the center conductor exist.  And are trivial as Richard Harrison better explained: 





> Coax, inside, rejects common-mode propagation of lightning energy. Coax, outside, needs good grounding to make a good path around (bypass for) protected equipment.



  If you need center conductor protection, then buy the expensive type protectors (ie GDTs) that do this properly. Polyphaser is one highly respected  source.   But for consumers, simply grounding a cable shield does everything necessary.

  Besides, cable is not where most damage comes from.  Cable is too often the outgoing surge path. Damage because other utility wires delivered destructive energy inside a house.  Because the ground block does superior protection. Surges incoming on AC mains - the most common source - will often seek earth ground destructively via cable appliances.

  Worry more about common sources of destructive surges.  Anything that typically enters on a coax center conductor is so trivial as to be made irrelevant by what already exists inside cable appliances.  For consumers, earthing the cable shield is more than sufficient.  The engineering reasons why include one provided by Richard Harrison in Dec 2003 entitled "Lightning Arrester".

 tremmor-  Protection means no million volts exist.  That voltage is how myths get promoted.  Protection means thousands of amps are conducted safely with near zero voltage.  Thousands of amps times near zero voltage results in near zero energy.  Anything that might stop a surge will create massive energy.  Protection is always about diverting thousands of amps harmlessly to earth so that a million volts never exists.


----------



## tremmor

and it won't happen if it happens. party over i think. 
high voltage to you will be your nightmare.


----------

