# I want 2-3 sub woofers. I can DIY it, but have questions.................



## ADE

OK, I own a 5.1 X-530, we all know what that is. Now of course they only come with 1 sub, that just wont do. I want 2, possible 3. I want to rock the room and annoy the neighbors...Revenge for all the years those kids blasted to car bass next door day and night. -laughs evilly- marry Christmas smith, merry Christmas.....any way, is 2-subs safe? And Where can I get just the sub and power???


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## The_Other_One

A speaker is a speaker.  A home theater sub will work just fine on your computer.  That'd be your best bet, as they typically have amps and everything built in.


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## ADE

Hmm....yes that would definitely tick off the neighbors.... lol, jk.


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## heyman421

i've seen 1 ohm stable plate amplifiers on the net that run up to 2400w.

all depends on how much you need, and how much you want to spend

prefab HT subwoofers rarely have adequate true subbass, they tend to be peaky, and want to take over the midbass frequencies

if you really want to hit those lows, get a plate amp, and design an enclosure


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## ADE

well judging buy how much I paid I was thinking 2 more subs for around $20


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## heyman421

can't help you, that wont even get you a 4x8 of MDF


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## The_Other_One

You're kidding, right?  My home theater subs cost me $100.  I've seen cheaper "walmart" subs, but you still have to get an amp for most of them.


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## ADE

That would be great advice if I know what MDF meant.


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## Ku-sama

dude, $20 subs wont even annoy you...

look into the $200 range if you want your neighbors to even know that you have a sub, none the less annoy them


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## The_Other_One

If you want people to actually hear your subs, you want at LEAST an 8" sub.  I have a 10" in my room.  You probably saw my video I posted a while back about it...


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## Jet

You could get a few more sets of X-530s and chain them together  Talk about surround sound..


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## ADE

Well, I figure 1 sub ticks off those anywhere in my home, 2 would would make my neighbors (approximately 15 from my computer) hear a bit, 3 would probably make them tell me turn it down, so 3 140 watt subs =420 watts. Doesn't seem like a lot but when you put it on "increase bass DSB by 20" and "Hi output bass boost" even one sub in the right spot they can hear. I have it in direct air and it feels like a huge wind gust. I'm sure 3 of them on the same setting would do the trick......gees my family's going to kill me for doing this lol


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## Ku-sama

your 96 and worried about your family killing you for having subwoofers?


and as for the bass thing...

I have 3000Ws going to my two 15" powered Definitive subwoofers and you can BARLY hear it outside... partly cause i'm in the basement....

instead of one sub, why not one big one?


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## ADE

Cuz its cheaper to buy the same model subs and string them together than to buy a whole new sub. Hmm....maybe I want 4.....

Edit- you know what I say, "The older the wiser, UNLESS You have alzheimer's."
And if you dont know what I say, well then, now you know.


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## The_Other_One

You would be surprised how hard it is to really make a lot of noise   I once had two subs like the one I have in my room now.  I connected them both to my stereo.  Each has it's own amp, so they weren't sharing power or anything.  I honestly couldn't tell when one or both were going.


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## ADE

Well if a car sub can do it, so can I.


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## Ku-sama

A car sub is also in a sealed box, 12"+ subwoofer and atleast 1000W


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## Jet

Ku-sama said:


> A car sub is also in a sealed box, 12"+ subwoofer and atleast 1000W



1000W! Now that wouldn't be your average sub....most people only put ~500W.


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## ADE

...........dang, I would need like 6 of these then....I wonder if I pulled one out of a car and modified it for computers.....


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## Ku-sama

ADE said:


> ...........dang, I would need like 6 of these then....I wonder if I pulled one out of a car and modified it for computers.....



That would involve ALOT of work...


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## ADE

Not really, just get a few splitter connectors and more power plugs.


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## Ku-sama

but the Amps dont plug into the wall, you'd need a home amplifier, and those run a good $300 for cheap ones. plus you have to match ohms.... it's not that simple...


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## ADE

All I see are a few splitters form the sub connector form the Sound card and then plug a few subs in the splitters (a 1 to 2, and then another one on each end of the first) then plug them all up to a dedicated power strip then turn up the dial and hope for the best. Sounds good to me.


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## Archangel

then go for it...    sorry.. but i dont see any use in thise threat except you boosting your post count.   "I want 2 or 3 sub's for $20, what can i get?" 
basicly nothing..   even active subs need a pre-amp (the home cinema ones)  and hooking up more speakers to the pc and let them be powered by the soundcard would make the soundcard blow because its overloaded...

besides the point..   youre 96 and won the lottery... -.-    go buy a Bentley and drive around in that.


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## Motoxrdude

Im sorry ADE, but damn. Getting two subs is the most you EVER want to put on one amp. After two, you will put some serious strain on the amp, and the ohms would kill it. Do what i did, buy a sealed box, stick two 12" mtx subs, and an alpine amp for about $300 and put that in your room. It hits pretty deep, and rattles everything in the house


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## heyman421

car stereos are loud because mobile amplifiers are a lot less expensive

higher demand = more market competition and more competetive prices

you can get 4000w rms @ 1 ohm in a car for ~$800, that same power for your home would cost upwards of $1500-2000.

And despite what most people believe, more car audio enthusiasts are well aware the importance of a proper subwoofer enclosure than you may be lead to believe by the goofnuts working at your local best buy.

The custom enclosure market is booming these days, as people are getting tired of their prefab sealed/high tuned ported/ and crapshoot prefab bandpass enclosures, and as people discover proper enclosure design, streetbass is getting lower, and louder with less power.

Any cars driving by that you can hear from your house are either throwing a lot of money at their cars, or have a pretty good idea what they're doing.  Luck has very little to do with piecing together a kickass substage, nor does the number of drivers.

For instance, i'm only an amature at system design, and with 2000w rms, two 15" kicker L7's in 9 cubic feet, tuned to 33hz, i only managed to hit a 143.6dB on the termlab, while there's a guy by the name of mark potts, who hit 150dB with a single 15" type-r, and about the same power, as well as a guy named dominic iraggi who managed an ungodly 169dB with a wall of 6x9 drivers............


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## ADE

Well I do have a custom wiring system through out me house made to put out more serious power than standard homes, well, the power cords near my computer any way. But I guess I will look into that idea of yours Motorxdude.


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## heyman421

Motoxrdude said:


> Getting two subs is the most you EVER want to put on one amp



that's not true

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z_p4dGRHqjs

60 subs, 1 amp


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## Ku-sama

good god.... I'd stick with one Jackhammer though


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## ADE

my goodness.


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## Motoxrdude

heyman421 said:


> that's not true
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z_p4dGRHqjs
> 
> 60 subs, 1 amp



Yeah, it is okay to do, but you have to know what you are doing. Usually you can't mess up when using two subs to one driver, but after that, you run the risk of blowing you amp(s) because of  the whole ohms issues.


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## heyman421

if you took 6th grade math, and understand how electricity works, you should be good to go


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## ADE

Please excuse my crudly done drawing but bare with me here, thats just how I though I might go about this. The 2 boxes in the middle are the subs.


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## Bobo

Yes, that would work.


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## ADE

I guess it helps to show and not just tell....


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## Ku-sama

it would work, but its not going to annoy your neighbors, and you'll lose sound quality when you split it


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## ADE

To me, a base is just something that simulates a boom, like a bomb or granaide. Honistly, I dont expect sound to be good from a sub as much as I do the simulation of whats happoning. Yes there is sound but its not like the kind from normal speakers.


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## dragon2309

Um, i think what ku-sama is trying to say is that solution will not provide a lot if any volume boost whasoever.Once youve split the signal, thats it, you've just split it, not duplicated, split, you cut it in half (theoretically)so half goes to one sub and half to another. So unless your routing the two split spurs into some kind of aftermarket amp before the subs, your not going to get very far.

You seem to be missing one crucial point throughout this discussion. The sub can only output what its given. It doesnt matter if they have external power or whatever, if you halve the signal given to it without going through a second (or even a first) amp, the subs will simply produce half the volume as the single sub did before the split...

dragon

*EDIT* - oh and its bass, not "base"


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## ADE

Hmm....well, I do remember there was an option within my soundcard software that I never figured out yet how to unlock that may solve the problum you stated. As for Base and Bass, There was no little spell check in the toolbar on this computer...


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## Redbull{wings}

I wonder what those 60 subs really sounded like being right in front of them instead with the recording of the camera....


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## Motoxrdude

ADE said:


> Hmm....well, I do remember there was an option within my soundcard software that I never figured out yet how to unlock that may solve the problum you stated. As for Base and Bass, There was no little spell check in the toolbar on this computer...



Your sound card IS NOT AN AMPLIFIER. Stop being a dumbass and just listen to us for once. YOU DO NOT WANT TO HOOK 3 SUBS TO ONE AMP. Just buy a decent amp and a decent sub, not a decent amp and 3 shitty subs. One decent sub will outperform 3 shitty ones. It is all about quality over quantity when it comes to audio.


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## dmw2692004

Motoxrdude said:


> Your sound card IS NOT AN AMPLIFIER. Stop being a dumbass and just listen to us for once. YOU DO NOT WANT TO HOOK 3 SUBS TO ONE AMP. Just buy a decent amp and a decent sub, not a decent amp and 3 shitty subs. One decent sub will outperform 3 shitty ones. It is all about quality over quantity when it comes to audio.



Thank. You. ADE, please listen to him.


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## Crash5291

heyman421 said:


> car stereos are loud because mobile amplifiers are a lot less expensive


 the install is the key, the equitment is only as good as the install allows it to be.  





> you can get 4000w rms @ 1 ohm in a car for ~$800, that same power for your home would cost upwards of $1500-2000.


 100Watts in a home and a 100watts in a car are 2 totally different animals. Also home equipment is required to actually make the power they claim. in car audio there is not written requirement, some manufactures follow a standards system they implemented a few years ago but its not a requirement. buy a home amp thats rated to put out 150 x 2 and it will. buy a mobile amp thats rated for 2000 i would have to see the certified test to prove it. then its also what voltage and input signal were used at what ohm load?   


> For instance, i'm only an armature at system design, and with 2000w rms, two 15" kicker L7's in 9 cubic feet, tuned to 33hz, i only managed to hit a 143.6dB on the termlab, while there's a guy by the name of mark potts, who hit 150dB with a single 15" type-r, and about the same power, as well as a guy named dominic iraggi who managed an ungodly 169dB with a wall of 6x9 drivers............


 is that with a 33hrz tone or did you find the vehicals resonant peak and use it to your advantage? (if your going for pure SPL) tune the box to work with the car to get the most.







Motoxrdude said:


> Just buy a decent amp and a decent sub, not a decent amp and 3 shitty subs. One decent sub will outperform 3 shitty ones. It is all about quality over quantity when it comes to audio.



Indeed, go look at good home systems and see what they are running for a sub. a single 10 - 12 inch driver can make a lot of bass if its boxed and powered correctly.


I hate listening to crappy systems, distortion makes my skin crawl. kids these days seem to think thats how bass is supposed to sound though  
my one front speaker in the truck has a slight voice coil rub when turned up i can hear it drives me nuts my friends think i'm hearing things. 

Anyway, if you want to annoy your neighbors. have fun   but i will tell you this my system in my room will knock the pictures off the walls but go outside and it almost inaudible from 50' away. the house soaks up a lot of the sound.   

Joe


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## heyman421

Crash5291 said:


> 100Watts in a home and a 100watts in a car are 2 totally different animals
> 
> 
> is that with a 33hrz tone or did you find the vehicals resonant peak and use it to your advantage?



There's nothing that requires home audio manufacturers to make the power they claim, either.  Birthsheets, benchtesting, or the new CEA2006 standard benchmarkings are the only way to know what an amp is actually putting out, regardless of whether it's a home audio or car audio amplifier.

The numbers i stated were benchmarked, i was referencing a lanzar opti4000D which is rated for 4000w rms @ 1 ohm, and tested 4,763w rms @ 1 ohm on 14.6v and 367A, roughly 88% efficient, which is pretty good for a PWM regulated power supply fed amplifier.

Said amp can be had for $800 plus shipping brand new.

And my 143dB was a 0dB 40hz test tone.  My box wasn't tuned for SPL, but rather a daily box.  I'm a sucker for LOWWWWWWWS, and you're right, if i was aiming for purely a SPL install, i would have tuned much higher, since my car has a natural resonance in the 55-60hz range, but i'd lose out on any 30-40hz output, and have a disgustingly high f3.


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## heyman421

Redbull{wings} said:


> I wonder what those 60 subs really sounded like being right in front of them instead with the recording of the camera....



crap, hahahaha

it was just supposed to make people say "wow, i need that"  

the distortion you hear is the microphone clipping


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## heyman421

And ADE:

2x cone area (doubling your speakers, or upgrading sizes) = ~3dB increase in sound
2x your power per driver = ~3dB increase
porting a sealed box = ~3dB increase


+3dB = 2x acoustical energy output
-3dB = 1/2 acoustical energy output
~9dB = 2x as loud to the ear

i typed that out in words, but it ended up being really lengthy.  Bottom line, is that you're wasting your time.

i don't know what size your current setup is, but if you have a 6.5" driver, a single 15 would be 5 times bigger.

If you have a 8" a single 15 would be 3.5 times bigger.

If you have a 10" a single 15 would be 2.25 times bigger.

Not to mention the drivers need to be identical, with identical power, in phase with each other, and in identical enclosures, or you will actually LOSE output compared to what you have now due to cancellation.


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## mega10169

If you plan on plugging your sound card to an amplified sub, or an amp then a sub you NEED a pre-amplifier to control the subs volume or else the sub will be as loud as your Volume Control is set to, which is what you don't want.


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## ADE

OK OK how about this, I forget the whole speaker system thing and get a BOOM Chair. It has 5.1 surround sound build right in it and has a bass right under your butt so racing games look, sound and feel real. Like I said, I prefur simulation over sound when it comes to a bass. And I think it does OK at sound too. Having 60 subs would certainly out do the people next door, but quite possibly could get me arrested.....


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## heyman421

now something like that might be fun

i always wanted one of those 'reactor' vests back in the day for playing genesis

i think aura made them


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## Crash5291

heyman421 said:


> There's nothing that requires home audio manufacturers to make the power they claim, either.  Birthsheets, benchtesting, or the new CEA2006 standard benchmarkings are the only way to know what an amp is actually putting out, regardless of whether it's a home audio or car audio amplifier.


Ok, i was under the imprestion that the Home electronics did indeed have a standard to follow. ya the CEA2006 is what i was referring too. although it could use better requirements.  



> The numbers i stated were benchmarked, i was referencing a lanzar opti4000D which is rated for 4000w rms @ 1 ohm, and tested 4,763w rms @ 1 ohm on 14.6v and 367A, roughly 88% efficient, which is pretty good for a PWM regulated power supply fed amplifier.


 Yes, indeed a nice amp. and worth the $800 bones. but not all company's do things right. 


> And my 143dB was a 0dB 40hz test tone.  My box wasn't tuned for SPL, but rather a daily box.  I'm a sucker for LOWWWWWWWS, and you're right, if i was aiming for purely a SPL install, i would have tuned much higher, since my car has a natural resonance in the 55-60hz range, but i'd lose out on any 30-40hz output, and have a disgustingly high f3.


Kool, and really 143dB @ 40Hz isn't too shabby at all. I'm only pushing ~127dB so im told, in my truck (regular cab F150) with a single 10" ported 2.7ft cubed @ 35Hz if i remeber right, and about ~100 -125wrms crappy Xplode "800watt" amp @4ohm but it was free so why pass.


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## death734

one thing i like about my subwoofer is it have a input and an output
so i could hook up as many subs as i want 
if you want 3+ subs (1 being the sub that came with your system) then my recommendation would be to buy some subs with an input/output so then you can just use a splitter from the computer, 1 end going to the 5.1 system and the other end going to a headphone to rca converter. 
then just run the rca wire to the sub in and another from the sub output to the input on another sub and do that as many times as you want. then synchronize the volumes and use the computer volume ajustments


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## Motoxrdude

death734 said:


> one thing i like about my subwoofer is it have a input and an output
> so i could hook up as many subs as i want
> if you want 3+ subs (1 being the sub that came with your system) then my recommendation would be to buy some subs with an input/output so then you can just use a splitter from the computer, 1 end going to the 5.1 system and the other end going to a headphone to rca converter.
> then just run the rca wire to the sub in and another from the sub output to the input on another sub and do that as many times as you want. then synchronize the volumes and use the computer volume ajustments



Sorry, it doesn't work like that. You would put a ton of strain on your amp and the ohms would kill it if you didn't wire it all correctly(which, no offense, i dont think ADE would be able to do). That and, connecting the output of an amp to another amp would fry at least one of the amps. Either way, it just won't work, or sound good at all.


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## heyman421

motoxr, stick to motoxng

he's saying the preamp inputs can be strung together

nothing would blow up


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## Motoxrdude

heyman421 said:


> motoxr, stick to motoxng
> 
> he's saying the preamp inputs can be strung together
> 
> nothing would blow up



What the hell is motoxng?
ADE said that he wanted to hook up 2-3 subs to one amp, not one sub per amp.


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## heyman421

death734 just said he has an output on his subwoofer, the preamp rca's can be daisychained from one unit to another

he's talking about a self-amplified subwoofer, and linking the preamp signal from the soundcard to multiple subwoofers

it has nothing to do with hooking multiple drivers up to an amp, in fact, it has nothing to do with an amplifier at all


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## death734

its an rca output. not speaker wire. these subwoofers have built in amplifiers
so the computer sends an audio signal, then its split and 1 end go to the subs input then that sub takes the signal and repeats it to the output (you do the same thing with the output in car sub woofer amps)


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## heyman421

i know what you meant, motoxr has some sort of hangup


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