# Well, guess what happened this morning?



## The VCR King

Yup. Walked in on my PC being unresponsive with a black screen and no power going to USB so I had to switch the power supply on and off to get it to reboot. I walked in on this at 8:45 and according What do I need to look at next?


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## Laquer Head

oh god, not again....


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## The VCR King

Laquer Head said:


> oh god, not again....


My reaction exactly...


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## beers

What power profile are you using?  What ACPI settings do you have in BIOS?


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## The VCR King

beers said:


> What power profile are you using?  What ACPI settings do you have in BIOS?


I'm using the "High Performance" profile and I don't know what ACPI is. It is set to whatever default is because I reset my bios when I replaced the cmos battery. I'm kinda pissed because now I know I possibly wasted $60 on a new PSU and it's too late now because my old one is already in the trash and long gone.


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> I'm using the "High Performance" profile and I don't know what ACPI is. It is set to whatever default is because I reset my bios when I replaced the cmos battery. I'm kinda pissed because now I know I possibly wasted $60 on a new PSU and it's too late now because my old one is already in the trash and long gone.


Do you leave your PC on overnight? You mentioned you had been having some storms lately didn't you?

Let's see if this carries on to see if it's a 'one off' thing or if it's going to be frequent (hopefully the former!). I'd advise only having your PC powered on when you are using it.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> Do you leave your PC on overnight?


Yes.



spirit said:


> You mentioned you had been having some storms lately didn't you?


Yes but the storms stopped overnight and according to event viewer this happened at 8:40 AM and I walked in on it at 8:45 AM after I woke up this morning.



spirit said:


> I'd advise only having your PC powered on when you are using it.


Can't do that. I have to have it always powered on because the whole family uses it now too. I also gave them instructions on how to reboot the PC in case this happens while I'm at school, which it did in the past.


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> Can't do that. I have to have it always powered on because the whole family uses it now too. I also gave them instructions on how to reboot the PC in case this happens while I'm at school, which it did in the past.


OK... why can't it be turned it off at night whilst presumably nobody is using it?

If you make them user accounts they could turn it on as and when they need to use it?


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> If you make them user accounts they could turn it on as and when they need to use it?


Wow. I can't believe I didn't think of that a long time ago. Will do!


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> Wow. I can't believe I didn't think of that a long time ago. Will do!


If the reason you were leaving it on for them was so that you didn't need to enter a password for them or you didn't want them seeing your files or something then this is the solution.  They can turn it on when you need it, log into their account, use it and then shut down afterwards.

I'd be interested to see if the PC can manage a day with no shut downs though. Turn it on when you get up, leave it on all day, turn it off at night. No reason to have it on at night.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> If the reason you were leaving it on for them was so that you didn't need to enter a password for them or you didn't want them seeing your files or something then this is the solution.  They can turn it on when you need it, log into their account, use it and then shut down afterwards.
> 
> I'd be interested to see if the PC can manage a day with no shut downs though. Turn it on when you get up, leave it on all day, turn it off at night. No reason to have it on at night.


It'll go weeks at a time without shutting down and it was never powered off until the thing happened this morning. I mean before I replaced the PSU it happened daily but now it's only happened once a week later so I must be getting something right.


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## johnb35

Here is where I would tear the thing apart and rebuild it from scratch.  Verify there are no loose screws between motherboard and case, do some deep cleaning and put it back together and see what happens. You've had one issue after another with this machine.


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## The VCR King

johnb35 said:


> Here is where I would tear the thing apart and rebuild it from scratch.  Verify there are no loose screws between motherboard and case, do some deep cleaning and put it back together and see what happens. You've had one issue after another with this machine.


I'll try that thanks


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## spirit

Rebuilding is a good idea. Make sure that you have the correct number of brass motherboard standoffs and that they're in the correct places too.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> Rebuilding is a good idea. Make sure that you have the correct number of brass motherboard standoffs and that they're in the correct places too.


Ok. Now, do you have a guess of what else could be causing KERNEL POWER EVENT 41?


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> Ok. Now, do you have a guess of what else could be causing KERNEL POWER EVENT 41?


Motherboard shorting? It just sounds like the system lost power unexpectedly so yeah motherboard short could be it. That's why I recommend making sure you have the correct number of brass standoffs installed and also making sure that they are in the correct places.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> Motherboard shorting? It just sounds like the system lost power unexpectedly so yeah motherboard short could be it. That's why I recommend making sure you have the correct number of brass standoffs installed and also making sure that they are in the correct places.


So you're telling me all these years and hundreds of dollars in repairs between me and the previous owner and it could've just been a loose screw?! If that end up being the case I'm going to be so pissed...... but I'll probably get a good laugh too...


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## beers

The VCR King said:


> So you're telling me all these years and hundreds of dollars in repairs and it could've just been a loose screw?!



It's difficult to isolate without much for on site troubleshooting 

I'd probably reformat while you're at it to get some degree of baseline (and also since it's been a while).  It kind of sounds like you'd rather give up, but it will be difficult to get something better for what you can get for it.


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> So you're telling me all these years and hundreds of dollars in repairs between me and the previous owner and it could've just been a loose screw?! If that end up being the case I'm going to be so pissed...... but I'll probably get a good laugh too...


Well I think your old power supply was bad so a new one was a good investment. You've had your new one for a few days now and it's been fine until this incident. I'd be tempted to check the motherboard and make sure it isn't shorting (if memory serves me correctly I may have advised you did this 2 years ago when you joined but I don't think you were up to it). Reinstalling Windows sounds like a good idea too. It would be interesting to see how many issues you get after you've rebuilt it and checked it's all OK and once you have a new installation of Windows on it. I'd take this opportunity to install Windows onto your SSD and games onto the HDD too, make sure whilst you are installing Windows you only have the SSD plugged in and also ensure the SATA mode is set to AHCI in the BIOS.


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## spirit

@The VCR King just read your post again. No power to USB sounds a lot like a short. Check you have the right standoffs and the board's I/O shield are OK.


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## johnb35

I would also check to make sure that none of the tabs from I/O shield are actually inside the usb slots, I've seen this happen before.  Also check your front usb ports for any contacts touching each other or possible damage.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> @The VCR King just read your post again. No power to USB sounds a lot like a short. Check you have the right standoffs and the board's I/O shield are OK.


Along with power loss to USB I also get no display and I lose sound too


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> Along with power loss to USB I also get no display and I lose sound too


Yeah something is shorting. Could be that your I/O shield is not installed correctly as John has said above, checking USB ports for bent pins etc is a good idea. Try temporarily unplugging your front panel USB ports from the board too.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> Yeah something is shorting. Could be that your I/O shield is not installed correctly as John has said above, checking USB ports for bent pins etc is a good idea. Try temporarily unplugging your front panel USB ports from the board too.


So for real me and the previous owner have spend nearly $500 in repairs and it's a short? I'm seriously pissed off right now. When I get home I'll rebuild it.


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> So for real me and the previous owner have spend nearly $500 in repairs and it's a short? I'm seriously pissed off right now. When I get home I'll rebuild it.


Nearly $500 in repairs? You bought a new PSU for like $50 and a CPU cooler and some more RAM... not $500 worth of parts? 

As I said, I think your old PSU was bad anyway and anyway you have a decent one now. 

Please don't be angry, these things happen.  There is a resolution though and we'll find the problem.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> Yeah something is shorting. Could be that your I/O shield is not installed correctly as John has said above, checking USB ports for bent pins etc is a good idea. Try temporarily unplugging your front panel USB ports from the board too.


Seriously man thank you so much for giving me a clearer answer. I already know that there are no bent pins on my USB ports but I do know I bent like three pins in my memory card reader from when I inserted a CF card the wrong direction but the pins aren't actually touching so that shouldn't be the issue...


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> Seriously man thank you so much for giving me a clearer answer. I already know that there are no bent pins on my USB ports but I do know I bent like three pins in my memory card reader from when I inserted a CF card the wrong direction but the pins aren't actually touching so that shouldn't be the issue...


No worries. I'd still disconnect the card reader anyway, just to make sure.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> Nearly $500 in repairs? You bought a new PSU for like $50 and a CPU cooler and some more RAM... not $500 worth of parts?
> 
> As I said, I think your old PSU was bad anyway and anyway you have a decent one now.
> 
> Please don't be angry, these things happen.  There is a resolution though and we'll find the problem.


Remember I spent $300 on all new RAM and Windows when I first got the machine and the previous owner did the same things too. And I am still pissed because I know I wasted money on some of the parts but I do like my new PSU and cooler because both are better. The cooler was needed anyways because I needed to access the RAM slots plus the new COOLER is _cooler._


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> Remember I spent $300 on all new RAM and Windows when I first got the machine and the previous owner did the same things too. And I am still pissed because I know I wasted money on some of the parts but I do like my new PSU and cooler because both are better.


Well to be honest you probably didn't buy the RAM or the CPU cooler to sort these issues out. You probably bought the RAM to improve performance and the CPU cooler to either keep the CPU cooler or to enable you to overclock, so I wouldn't be too annoyed about that. And hey, who cares what the previous owner bought? His money, not yours. 

You bought the PSU to stop these shut downs and weird happenings and I think it was worthwhile. It just looks like there is something, possibly a standoff, the I/O shield or a USB port, which is causing occasional shorts.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> Well to be honest you probably didn't buy the RAM or the CPU cooler to sort these issues out. You probably bought the RAM to improve performance and the CPU cooler to either keep the CPU cooler or to enable you to overclock, so I wouldn't be too annoyed about that. And hey, who cares what the previous owner bought? His money, not yours.
> 
> You bought the PSU to stop these shut downs and weird happenings and I think it was worthwhile. It just looks like there is something, possibly a standoff, the I/O shield or a USB port, which is causing occasional shorts.


The RAM was replaced when I bought the machine because I was told it was infected or something... And I added more to increase performance and the cooler was replaced because the other one blocked off my other RAM slots. Again man thank you so much for helping narrow down that it is indeed a short happening somewhere. Seriously I can't thank you enough.


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> The RAM was replaced when I bought the machine because I was told it was infected or something... And I added more to increase performance and the cooler was replaced because the other one blocked off my other RAM slots. Again man thank you so much for helping narrow down that it is indeed a short happening somewhere. Seriously I can't thank you enough.


No worries mate, let's see if we can find out what's wrong once for all eh?  

When you get time (like a whole day free) it would be a good idea to completely rebuild the whole system, checking for any possible shorts. My guess is that it's your I/O shield or a USB port. If it was a standoff I think you might get a short if you knocked the PC slightly.


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## johnb35

The VCR King said:


> The RAM was replaced when I bought the machine because I was told it was infected or something.



Ram can't get infected.  Ram is either good or bad but can't get infected because as soon as you shut system down all data from memory is pushed back to hdd.  Not sure who told you that.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> No worries mate, let's see if we can find out what's wrong once for all eh?
> 
> When you get time (like a whole day free) it would be a good idea to completely rebuild the whole system, checking for any possible shorts. My guess is that it's your I/O shield or a USB port. If it was a standoff I think you might get a short if you knocked the PC slightly.


I think it actually might be the IO shield because I've noticed it looks like it's kinda crooked and not quite right


johnb35 said:


> Ram can't get infected.  Ram is either good or bad but can't get infected because as soon as you shut system down all data from memory is pushed back to hdd.  Not sure who told you that.


The microcenter technician ... And now I know that was total B/S but back then I didn't know a lot about that type of stuff so I just went with it LOL


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> I think it actually might be the IO shield because I've noticed it looks like it's kinda crooked and not quite right


In that case you'll need to take your board out and then reinstall the I/O shield. It's possible it has come loose or one of the pins on it is touching the board.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> In that case you'll need to take your board out and then reinstall the I/O shield. It's possible it has come loose or one of the pins on it is touching the board.


Honestly that's what I think is going on because the IO shield is angled a bit and it's not lining up right if you look closely.


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## johnb35

Post an image of it.


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> Honestly that's what I think is going on because the IO shield is angled a bit and it's not lining up right if you look closely.


Try sorting that out first then. Whilst you have the board out to reinstall the I/O shield look for other possible shorts too and count and tighten the brass standoffs as well. Get back to us once you've done this.


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## The VCR King

johnb35 said:


> Post an image of it.


Here:







spirit said:


> Try sorting that out first then. Whilst you have the board out to reinstall the I/O shield look for other possible shorts too and count and tighten the brass standoffs as well. Get back to us once you've done this.


Due to time I probably won't be able to get to it until this weekend and I'm also buying an anti-static wristband so I don't do what I did last time and kill a GPU with a static shock. Can you also tell me what a standoff looks like and how many there should be?

Plus while I have the PC open this gives me a chance to further improve cable management.


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> Due to time I probably won't be able to get to it until this weekend and I'm also buying an anti-static wristband so I don't do what I did last time and kill a GPU with a static shock. Can you also tell me what a standoff looks like and how many there should be?


The number there should be depends on your board and your case. You need to count how many holes there are for them on your board and then see if they're installed in the right places on your case. Only put them where there are holes on your board, you don't want standoffs on your case touching the board where they shouldn't be.

You may need to use some pliers to loosen and tighten them.

They look like this:






Btw I can see in the photo the top right of your I/O shield doesn't look quite straight. It may just need pushing in a little bit.


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## johnb35

This is a standoff.  

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-Brass-Motherboard-Standoffs-Computer/dp/B00213KL5I

Your board requires 9 of them unless your case has raised spots to act as standoffs.  

The image looks ok as far as I can tell.  You have some dust to clean out after you tear it all down.


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## The VCR King

johnb35 said:


> This is a standoff.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-Brass-Motherboard-Standoffs-Computer/dp/B00213KL5I
> 
> Your board requires 9 of them unless your case has raised spots to act as standoffs.
> 
> The image looks ok as far as I can tell.  You have some dust to clean out after you tear it all down.


Can you tell me if the HAF 912 uses real standoffs?


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## johnb35

I would have to remove my motherboard to tell you that.  But I don't think it has any raised spots, so you would have to use all 9 standoffs to attach the board.  I just looked at the manual online and it shows standoffs being used.


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## The VCR King

johnb35 said:


> I would have to remove my motherboard to tell you that.  But I don't think it has any raised spots, so you would have to use all 9 standoffs to attach the board.  I just looked at the manual online and it shows standoffs being used.


Ok, thanks John!


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## The VCR King

I am thinking of replacing my SATA cables with blue ones while I'm doing the rebuild. I am thinking of using these but it says they're SATA 2.0. Aren't all SATA cables the same?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insigni...lack/5884325.p?id=1219169460961&skuId=5884325


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## johnb35

Don't you have a microcenter close by? Would recommend going there.    There is technically no difference between sata 2 and sata 3 cable. 

http://www.microcenter.com/product/339679/ClearLinks_Right-Angle_SATA_Data_Cable_18


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## Laquer Head

johnb35 said:


> ..There is technically no difference between sata 2 and sata 3 cable...



unless it has 'ultra' or 'extreme' on the package


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## johnb35

Laquer Head said:


> unless it has 'ultra' or 'extreme' on the package


Just a gimmick


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## Laquer Head

johnb35 said:


> Just a gimmick



Even 'premium platinum high tech mega version'?


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## The VCR King

Laquer Head said:


> Even 'premium platinum high tech mega version'?


Why not three feet of speaker cable for $2750?
http://www.pearcable.com/sub_products_anjou_sc.htm


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## The VCR King

IT HAPPENED AGAIN JUST NOW. Walked in on my PC sitting there with fans running but no display or power to USB. Haven't had the time to rebuild the PC yet to check for correct standoffs but it's on my to do list. Rebooted, checked event viewer, sure enough, "KERNEL POWER, 41, SYSTEM, 1 HOUR AGO"


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## voyagerfan99

The VCR King said:


> KERNEL POWER, 41, SYSTEM, 1 HOUR AGO


All that means is that it suddenly lost power.


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## The VCR King

voyagerfan99 said:


> All that means is that it suddenly lost power.


Thing is it doesn't completely lose power. What happens is the display goes black, sound turns off, and the USB ports aren't getting power. The case fans and lights still stay on during this


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## johnb35

I'll say this again, quit using the system until you figure this out.  Get your priorities straight and go.


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## Laquer Head

@The VCR King Have you tried talking with your folks, or whomever and lay out the issues your having, and potentially work out a plan to get a new machine or seriously fix this one? Basically you need the financial assistance and I'm sure if you had a good chat with them, explained the issues, and benefit to them getting involved..perhaps they would front you some $$ or work with you on a solution?

Obviously I don't know your family, but I'd bet they'd at least listen and worst case scenario give their input on what makes sense. I think your at the point where you need external help, as we can't help more than we have - and I'm sure your frustration level is peaking.


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## The VCR King

Laquer Head said:


> @The VCR King Have you tried talking with your folks, or whomever and lay out the issues your having, and potentially work out a plan to get a new machine or seriously fix this one? Basically you need the financial assistance and I'm sure if you had a good chat with them, explained the issues, and benefit to them getting involved..perhaps they would front you some $$ or work with you on a solution?
> 
> Obviously I don't know your family, but I'd bet they'd at least listen and worst case scenario give their input on what makes sense. I think your at the point where you need external help, as we can't help more than we have - and I'm sure your frustration level is peaking.


I already talked with the folks and they know what's going on and they know I need my PC repaired and I honestly don't have enough time because of school work so I might wait until summer break. And you're right, I'm very frustrated. This power issue is annoying


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## Laquer Head

The VCR King said:


> I already talked with the folks and they know what's going on and they know I need my PC repaired and I honestly don't have enough time because of school work so I might wait until summer break. And you're right, I'm very frustrated. This power issue is annoying



Well at least the dialogue is started and they know whats up.. maybe once summer comes and school is done you can do some lawn mowing or other stuff, save a bit then go to then and be like.. I did this ..can you guys beef up the savings a bit. Parents will be more apt to help if they see you trying too!!


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## The VCR King

Laquer Head said:


> Well at least the dialogue is started and they know whats up.. maybe once summer comes and school is done you can do some lawn mowing or other stuff, save a bit then go to then and be like.. I did this ..can you guys beef up the savings a bit. Parents will be more apt to help if they see you trying too!!


I've been doing a lot more chores lately and I gave both my parents written instructions on how to reboot the PC when it blacks out off because it requires manually unplugging and plugging the PSU or flipping its switch


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## Laquer Head

The VCR King said:


> I've been doing a lot more chores lately and I gave both my parents written instructions on how to reboot the PC when it blacks out off because it requires manually unplugging and plugging the PSU or flipping its switch



You actually had to write down how to unplug a psu?


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## The VCR King

Laquer Head said:


> You actually had to write down how to unplug a psu?


Yeah... They're the kind of parents who will mash every f**king button to reboot something and then get pissed off saying illogical things like "the PC is broken, it must be all those games you play."


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## Laquer Head

The VCR King said:


> Yeah... They're the kind of parents who will mash every f**king button to reboot something and then get pissed off saying illogical things like "the PC is broken, it must be all those games you play."



Say no more, I completely understand that frustration.. especially now that mine are 70+ and retired...really..really stubborn


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## The VCR King

Laquer Head said:


> Say no more, I completely understand that frustration.. especially now that mine are 70+ and retired...really..really stubborn


Lol.


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## The VCR King

Okay, still haven't had time to rebuild the rig, probably not until summer vacation, but here is the list of what I've tried already:
Replace power supply (most recent)
Replace CPU cooler
Replace RAM
Have entire PC rebuilt at MicroCenter (when I first acquired the rig)

I mean here's my point, the PC had this issue before I acquired it and when MicroCenter rebuilt it they never did find anything wrong visually, so that would suggest that I have all 9 standoffs then right? So something is f**ked up inside my hardware then right? What should I look into next? MOBO? GPU? WTF?


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## johnb35

But it hasn't happened as much since you replaced the psu correct?  Have you check the motherboard for bulging or leaking capacitors?  Bios updated?


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## spirit

Bad motherboard probably.


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## The VCR King

spirit said:


> Bad motherboard probably.


That's what I thought. I will begin searching for a used AM3 motherboard then.


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## spirit

The VCR King said:


> That's what I thought. I will begin searching for a used AM3 motherboard then.


Yeah don't spend too much though, it's an outdated platform and you might want to consider saving up for a whole new PC soon.


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## johnb35

spirit said:


> Yeah don't spend too much though, it's an outdated platform and you might want to consider saving up for a whole new PC soon.



Spirit is right, don't even bother getting a motherboard.  Start saving for a new build.  This is what we keep telling you.  Get your priorities straight, use that head of yours and think about stuff thoroughly.  Am3+ is how many years old and a dead platform.


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## The VCR King

johnb35 said:


> Spirit is right, don't even bother getting a motherboard.  Start saving for a new build.  This is what we keep telling you.  Get your priorities straight, use that head of yours and think about stuff thoroughly.  Am3+ is how many years old and a dead platform.


I had a garage sale and I made and saved $100 on what I sold so I'm putting it into savings and I'm building a new rig. As of now this project is official.


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## Laquer Head

The VCR King said:


> I had a garage sale and I made and saved $100 on what I sold so I'm putting it into savings and I'm building a new rig. *As of now* this project is official.



Uh oh.. lol


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## The VCR King

Okay the blackout happened again this morning and going into Event Viewer I've noticed something interesting...
The Event 41 always happens at 7:41 AM


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## voyagerfan99

So what happens before that? Sounds like something is crashing.


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## The VCR King

voyagerfan99 said:


> So what happens before that? Sounds like something is crashing.


Nothing really happens. I lose sound, display, and USB power all at once but my case fans stay running. Once I manage to get it booted back up and into Event Viewer it just shows EVENT 41 at 7:41AM


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## johnb35

If it happens at 7:41 on the mornings it crashes then something is up.  Whether its an option in the bios such as wake on feature or a slight power irregularity from your electricity provider.


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## The VCR King

Here is what it looks like on event viewer. I thought it was 7:41 but I was wrong. But look how closely these are timed together.


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## johnb35

Are you known for power surges or lights flickering around that time?  Try setting bios back to defaults and see if that helps.  Just make sure you have the correct setting for the sata controller so you change it back.


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## The VCR King

johnb35 said:


> Are you known for power surges or lights flickering around that time?  Try setting bios back to defaults and see if that helps.  Just make sure you have the correct setting for the sata controller so you change it back.


No lights flickering or power surges around that time, or any time really... Also all BIOS settings are whatever default is because when I installed my new PSU I replaced the CMOS battery and it said my CMOS was clear upon reboot.


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## Intel_man

When your computer fails, does it go into a BSOD or just straight up black screen/ freeze?


Or if you really just want to get on with it, you can join the dark side and grab an Intel.


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