# If you smoke, and use a MAC, or may buy one in the future, please read!



## ETSA

This is just silly if you ask me.

http://consumerist.com/2009/11/smoking-near-apple-computers-creates-biohazard-voids-warranty.html

_Dena [from Jobs' office] did advise me that nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health. However, OSHA also lists calcium carbonate (found in calcium tablets), isopropyl alcohol (used to clean wounds), chlorine (used in swimming pools), hydrogen peroxide (also used to clean wounds), sucrose (a sugar), talc (as in powder), etc... as hazardous substances._


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## Bodaggit23

I'll add this to the list of reasons I'll never buy a Mac.


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## PabloTeK

> isopropyl alcohol (used to clean wounds)


Not pleasant _s_tuff to use, I've done it and it really is bad!





> chlorine (used in swimming pools)


Chlorine is most definately dangerous in high concentrations!





> hydrogen peroxide (also used to clean wounds)


Again, wrong concentration = nastiness_.
_


> sucrose (a sugar)


Not sure on this one, I guess i's again to do with quantities.


> _talc (as in powder)_


Amazingly Talcum Powder is dangerious if you breathe it in enough!

I'd say the real reason is that the drives don't like smoke. The PS3 & Wii (and any other slot loader in fact) will have issues as there's no protector. Nintendo I think are quite funny about replacing smoke-damaged consoles...


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## Shane

ohh this is pathetic....apple what are you doing!

How the hell can smoking void warrenty...and how could they tell that smoke causes the problems?

Id expect this from M$...but not you apple!


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## Bodaggit23

I don't think they're saying smoke causes the problems.

I think they're saying, they don't want their precious Apple
employees to be exposed to the various chemicals while they're
working on the junk.


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## tlarkin

As some of you probably already know, I was a warranty repair tech for several years (6 years total) before moving on to better jobs.  During that time I have seen so many nasty, smelly, and yes damaged computers from smoke.  Tar builds up all over the circuit boards, fans cease to run, it causes over heating, and it also attracts moisture.

Yes, it can damage your machine, and yes I have seen it.  I have had nasty chain smokers come into the shop back in the day and you could smell their computer from across the shop.  I mean you could literally see the tar build up.

It damages the components, it is gross, it smells like ass, and yes it should void the warranty.  No company should be held liable if you chain smoke in front of your computer 24/7 and it causes damage.

I admit I have seen more gross things than a machine covered in 2nd hand smoke during my time as a repair tech, but it is up there and it is pretty damn gross.  

That is why I always tell everyone I know, if you smoke, smoke outside.  Not only will it damage your electronics but it also gets in your furniture, and soak into the walls and damage your home.   

I could care less if you smoke, that is your personal choice, but it does damage electronics so I recommend you do not smoke around them.  If you must, do it in extreme moderation.


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## Jet

Hah! Mac haters you all. 

Why in the world do coffee cups have "Warning, may be hot" on the side? It's for those silly people who sue for silly reasons.


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## Bodaggit23

tlarkin said:


> As some of you probably already know, I was a warranty repair tech for several years (6 years total) before moving on to better jobs.  During that time I have seen so many nasty, smelly, and yes damaged computers from smoke.  Tar builds up all over the circuit boards, fans cease to run, it causes over heating, and it also attracts moisture.



Yes, we've all heard about your extensive computer experience. Practically every time you post.

Anyway, I am a smoker and I sit right in front of my computer and smoke, and I always have. 

You're exaggerating a bit here. You make it sound like tar drips off the board.

Maintenance is the key here. I blow out my machines every month, whether they need it or not. 

How about someone that has pets and never blows their machine out? Pet hair also causes fans to cease running, and overheating.

Should their warranty be void also?


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## tlarkin

http://www.squidoo.com/cigarette-smoke-computer-damage


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## tlarkin

Bodaggit23 said:


> Yes, we've all heard about your extensive computer experience. Practically every time you post.
> 
> Anyway, I am a smoker and I sit right in front of my computer and smoke, and I always have.
> 
> You're exaggerating a bit here. You make it sound like tar drips off the board.
> 
> Maintenance is the key here. I blow out my machines every month, whether they need it or not.
> 
> How about someone that has pets and never blows their machine out? Pet hair also causes fans to cease running, and overheating.
> 
> Should their warranty be void also?



Pets can also be a problem.  You are right about maintaining it clean.  The problem is, I know smokers that don't pop their cases open and clean them out.  I have nothing against smoking as I will have a smoke from time to time myself, but I never smoke inside my own home.  It just does too much damage.  

My mom bought a house a long time ago and the people she bought it from were smokers.  Every time you took a shower in the upstairs bathroom, and the walls got covered in moisture there would be lines and marks of tar all over.  The tar actually soaked into the wood itself and would resurface.  We scrubbed that house down clean, stripped it down and even replaced some of the drywall in certain areas and you could still see tar forming around the vents whenever the air got moist in that bathroom.  You could still smell it too.  It is obvious smoke does cause damage to things over time.

I have seen some nasty computers.  Now, I always did the work on them.  I think that a lot of times the Apple employees are lazy, at least that is what I get from listening to the people I know that work at Apple stores and the people I have worked with that used to work at Apple stores.  I think they are just being cry babies.

However, smoke does in fact cause damage, and even if you clean it out a lot the tar will eventually build up.  The dust can be blown out with a can of air, but once it starts to build up tar you would have to physically scrub it.  

I used to take pics of them and put them on the company server for documentation of how nasty the machine was when it came in.  This is not exclusive to any brand, or electronic as I have seen some nasty ass TVs come through the shop too that had smoke damage done to them.

unrelated, but awesome pic:


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## Twist86

Nevakonaza said:


> ohh this is pathetic....apple what are you doing!



They are being normal as usual  Can't wait for the "no finger oil" clause for the Iphone warranty.

You wont notice it but smoking leaves a lot of crap on the walls/computer/floor etc that will disturb you. Reason why I make ANYONE smoke outside now including the girly.
My dog at one point was EATING the carpet for the nicotine. She has yet to do it since I kicked the smokers outside and bought my new house.


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## TFT

> If you smoke and use a MAC



Well I don't do either but given the choice I'd take up smoking.


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## tlarkin

Twist86 said:


> They are being normal as usual  Can't wait for the "no finger oil" clause for the Iphone warranty.
> 
> You wont notice it but smoking leaves a lot of crap on the walls/computer/floor etc that will disturb you. Reason why I make ANYONE smoke outside now including the girly.
> My dog at one point was EATING the carpet for the nicotine. She has yet to do it since I kicked the smokers outside and bought my new house.



That is why I don't let anyone smoke in my house either.  I even make my father go outside when he comes over.


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## Bodaggit23

tlarkin said:


> [/IMG]



Those are extreme cases of negligence. Smokers or not.

My point is that negligence can cause system failure whether you smoke or not.


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## bomberboysk

PabloTeK said:


> Not pleasant _s_tuff to use, I've done it and it really is bad!
> Chlorine is most definately dangerous in high concentrations!
> Again, wrong concentration = nastiness_.
> _
> Not sure on this one, I guess i's again to do with quantities.
> 
> Amazingly Talcum Powder is dangerious if you breathe it in enough!
> 
> I'd say the real reason is that the drives don't like smoke. The PS3 & Wii (and any other slot loader in fact) will have issues as there's no protector. Nintendo I think are quite funny about replacing smoke-damaged consoles...


Yeah, Chlorine is actually a gas, the stuff used in pools is chlorine bleach. Hydrogen peroxide used to clean wounds...not really, that is just an antiseptic due to its oxidizing properties, and that is only a 2 or 3% solution used for that matter. High concentrations(10% and above) are used as commercial oxidizers, and in high enough concentrations(75%+) is used as rocket fuel. 

Isopropyl alcohol is nasty stuff honestly, not so much if you get it on you or use it to clean wounds, but internal consumption or use on large wounds is toxic.


I noticed this same topic over on hardforum the other day too...some of the pictures over there were pretty graphic(as far as buildup on hard drives and such). And in all honestly, apple isnt required to repair something that was caused because someone ruined their computer by smoking. Warranties are against hardware defects, not user error.


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## tlarkin

Bodaggit23 said:


> Those are extreme cases of negligence. Smokers or not.
> 
> My point is that negligence can cause system failure whether you smoke or not.



I never said anything to disagree with your statement, however if you smoke near your computer you increase the rate of it getting dirty and clogged exponentially.  Also, smoke will eventually add a tar residue.  Pet hair can be as bad in some cases, but in my experience smoking seems to be the worst.  My buddy who is a smoker also has a pet cat, that has thick fur.  His computer is nasty.

Smoking is just a nasty habit, period and it damages almost anything it is in contact with over time.  I am not trying to preach to you or tell you to quit smoking.  That is your choice, and I could care less as I also think it is your right to do whatever it is you want with your body.  However, that does not hide the fact that smoke, from anything, will damage most things over time.

I used to smoke regularly too, but I quit.  However, I still do smoke from time to time and you know how the saying goes, "An ex smoker is worse than a non smoker."

So, why should Apple pick up the tab on someone who damages their machine with smoke?  If you are so clean with your machines then I bet most people won't even notice or pick up the fact that you smoke near your computer.  Unless it smells like an ashtray.  If you read any EULA on any warranty from any company they all state that any damage caused due to you using it in a bad environment is not covered, ie you use your computer outside in the rain of course it is going to fail.  They leave it broad so it is open to interpretation.  In this case of the article posted, I think it is a cry baby employee that wants to be one of those fat and lazy IT people that like to surf the web all day or watch netflix instead of work.   Since, OSHA has standards Apple's corporate office says we will not force our employee to do the work.  So, another employee could chose to do the work.  I can tell you, I never turned away the work but I definitely in some cases told the customer that is not covered under warranty.  

Unless we are talking about smoking some pork on the smoker outside.  That is just pure deliciousness.


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## zombine210

this sounds counter-intuitive.
only  people would buy a mac.
people also smoke to be 
really, what did they expect?


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## Bodaggit23

tlarkin said:


> I never said anything to disagree with your statement, however if you smoke near your computer you increase the rate of it getting dirty and clogged exponentially.  Also, smoke will eventually add a tar residue.  Pet hair can be as bad in some cases, but in my experience smoking seems to be the worst.  My buddy who is a smoker also has a pet cat, that has thick fur.  His computer is nasty.



You could have ended there and still got your point across.

You're very intelligent, and I would enjoy reading your posts more, if they were shorter. 

I understand what you're saying, and I've been a smoker since I was 13, and I smoke in front of my machines all the time, and I've never had a failure due to tar buildup. lol If a machine was going to die from it, that would have been my old socket 939 Acer machine. Many many hours gaming on that bad boy, and she's still kickin out frame rates. :good: Because I maintain my pc's.


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## Drenlin

^ What the...? Is that a real-live spammer? As in...not a bot? That's almost impressive...I didn't know any companies still used actual people.

As far as smoking around a computer goes, I agree with tlarkin...that's some nasty stuff, and no amount of compressed air is going to stop the tar buildup. You'd have to find a way to clean all of the hardware by hand yo get it all off.


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## tlarkin

Drenlin said:


> ^ What the...? Is that a real-live spammer? As in...not a bot? That's almost impressive...I didn't know any companies still used actual people.
> 
> As far as smoking around a computer goes, I agree with tlarkin...that's some nasty stuff, and no amount of compressed air is going to stop the tar buildup. You'd have to find a way to clean all of the hardware by hand yo get it all off.



I have authentication and captcha turned on my personal website and I still get daily emails of actual humans trying to register, for spam, and my site probably gets 0.000000000001% of the traffic this forum does.


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## Gareth

I think smoking should be made illegal completely. Probably wont be made favours with a comment such as that, but look at that awful mess it mades inside of a computer, imagen what it does to the inside of yourself! I could never smoke, the thought of it makes me wretch too. I worked on a PC once which was in a house with two chainsmokers, the inside of the computer stunk severely and a brown dust mess everywhere.


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## tlarkin

Gareth said:


> I think smoking should be made illegal completely. Probably wont be made favours with a comment such as that, but look at that awful mess it mades inside of a computer, imagen what it does to the inside of yourself! I could never smoke, the thought of it makes me wretch too. I worked on a PC once which was in a house with two chainsmokers, the inside of the computer stunk severely and a brown dust mess everywhere.



Making it illegal won't stop people from smoking.  Tons of drugs are illegal and you can easily get them anywhere on the streets in almost every city.


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## Archangel

I can't stand smoking myself.  Cant breathe then.
In fact, thats the reason why my dad stopped smoking, because appearantly I even started coughing as a baby when someone was smoking near me.

Either way, I think this is going a bit far in terms of "health and safety" or whatever.
On the other hand, I think employees should be able to refuse to repair a pc is its just too gross on the inside, dont see a problem with that.


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## Rudster816

Gareth said:


> I think smoking should be made illegal completely. Probably wont be made favours with a comment such as that, but look at that awful mess it mades inside of a computer, imagen what it does to the inside of yourself! I could never smoke, the thought of it makes me wretch too. I worked on a PC once which was in a house with two chainsmokers, the inside of the computer stunk severely and a brown dust mess everywhere.



Tobacco companies pay billions of dollars in lobbying to keep things like that from happening.


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## iGeekOFComedy

If there is tobacco inside the computer or on the material enclosure that could have clogged fans or on the mainboard etc apple has every right to not repair the computer


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## Rit

Hate to say it, but there's no way to shut down smoking and making it illegal. It could hurt our economy pretty bad. 

Then people could argue 'lets make everything that's unhealthy illegal', so no McDs, no Pop, etc.. Then everyone would turn out to be a grass eating hippies    JK!

But people that smoke in their homes just wreck the value of EVERYTHING. My buddy is a car salesman, and he says that smokers won't even buy used cars that was previously owned by smokers. It does more harm that some people want to admit.


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## Rage Kinard

Rit said:


> *Hate to say it, but there's no way to shut down smoking and making it illegal. It could hurt our economy pretty bad. *
> 
> Then people could argue 'lets make everything that's unhealthy illegal', so no McDs, no Pop, etc.. Then everyone would turn out to be a grass eating hippies    JK!
> 
> But people that smoke in their homes just wreck the value of EVERYTHING. My buddy is a car salesman, and he says that smokers won't even buy used cars that was previously owned by smokers. It does more harm that some people want to admit.



Yep, it's been a cornerstone of our economy in some fashion since....well, since we were colonies.  Besides, I don't smoke cigarettes, but I enjoy a nice cigar every now and then for celebratory purposes


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