# Which Hard Drive should I pick?



## 911aaron

Which hard drive should i choose?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

I like the seagate one because it has 32mb cache while the WD one has only 16mb cache. However the ratings on the seagate are concerning me. Which one do you think I should choose?

(what does more cache do anyways? I know its good to have more cache but I dont know what it does. lol )


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## PC eye

I've been running two of the WD models for over a year now having moved those and one of two ide drives into a newer build. Now with the ide drive gone the pair see XP on one and Vista on the other as well as ubuntu.

The 32mb cache is always a plus and Seagate is another good brand there. Either will see about 465gb after the initial partitioning and formatting of the drive selected. I've been running WD drives for over 10yrs. at this time without one failure except for one loaned out where the owner neglected to maintain the case and the drive overheated! 

Other then that price is the only other concern seeing the $10 difference. The cache is actually more of a memory buffer where the microcontroller on the drive will signal the main system that data has been written to the drive's platters while still being held in memory so that the system can continue on.


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## voyagerfan99

I heard that HDD's don't even use all 32 MB of cache, so theres no point in having it so big. They only use like 12 MB I believe.


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## 911aaron

I see... So what do you think would be a better choice? I think its basically a choice between speed or quality. (seagate being the speed and western digital being the quality) (I know seagate has great quality products but if you look at the ratings this one got compared to the WD, seems like the WD has the better quality in this scenario.)


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## Cleric7x9

to be honest, i think that both of those drives are great, and its really a toss up. for only $10 more the seagate is probably quieter, but idk how much you would really notice it


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## PC eye

I've seen great results running a pair of the exact same WD model here with both seeing one version of Windows on. XP still needs a large primary for working with video captures at times while Vista has been set as the default for some time. Seagate would be the alternative brand when looking at the others seen. And they never even make a sound.


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## 911aaron

ill get the WD. thanks


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## StrangleHold

The Seagate hands down, if you want a W/D drive dont get a SE model get this one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136205


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## SirKenin

lol.  The WD SE is a total piece of crap for anything but the lightest of duties.. If anyone tries to steer you otherwise, chances are good they have little or no actual experience..  Take it for what it's worth.. absolutely nothing.

I can tell you a ton of stories about crap WD drives.  They really are that bad.  Get the Seagate and thank us later.


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## PC eye

The pair of AAKS 500gb drives are running quite well thank you! I've used SE models as well for several years on various builds as well as others have found them reliable even when placing good loads on them. But as usual the peanut gallery has to come in and make some noise. You don't have to spend an extra $20 to see a WD work out there.


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## StrangleHold

Your best bet is to completely ignore PCeye. Theres a reason the SE model only has a 3 year warranty and the W/D RE has 5 and the Seagate has 5 years.


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## PC eye

Another comment from the peanut gallery as expected.  

911aaron you are simply better off going with the drive you feel will work for you the best despite the last minute noise others like to throw in.


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## jw214

westen digital has been around longer than seagate. i personally have always used seagate and never had a problem. my mom has a seagate in her single core athlon build that i built 8yrs ago. still works !


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## 911aaron

Whats the difference between the RE and SE models?


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## SirKenin

The RE is an enterprise level hard drive. It has a much higher duty cycle and MTBF. In short, it's far more reliable than the Caviar SE. The Caviar SE is a budget unit. It's cheap...for a reason. I repair an SE about once a day, or every two days. I've lost a huge pile of them over the years and have half a dozen dead SEs at my office ATM.

Data is irreplaceable. You don't send a boy to do a man's job...and you don't use a POS unit to store a computer's most important asset.

I've run into several instances where so-called "techs" have placed SE harddrives into mission critical applications. I just ran into it again two days ago.. In every single instance, the SE crapped out. Sooo... if someone tries to sell you on an SE.. Think three times... Realize they don't know what they're doing... And walk away.

EDIT: I'll let you in on a little "secret". People pitch the SE because it costs us $2.00 less on average to buy one than a Seagate. I don't believe for a second that people like PC eye do anywhere near enough volume to realize this.. I think people like him pitch them because they actually don't know any better and the mom and pop shop they buy them from pitches them for the two dollar savings.

I have over a dozen different suppliers, and you quickly get used to their product lines..  I have two or three low end suppliers that I have to be very picky what I buy off them.. and they pitch the WD SE.  I then have three top tier suppliers..  And they pitch RE, Raptor and Seagate.  They're also the ones that I buy my Asus, Supermicro, Corsair, etc. from.

However.. When you do significant volume, the savings add up in a hell of a hurry.. In other words.. If someone pitches you on an SE, they're thinking of their bottom line.. not yours.. and that's the last person in the world you want to trust or do business with. It's the person that says "spend the little extra and get a much better unit" or.. "we'll throw the better unit in for the same price".. That's the person you want to trust and do business with.


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## StrangleHold

Like said above the RE is a enterprise class drive. Built for a 24/7 continuous use. I think they still guarantee them for 1 million hours for mean time between failures. Plus they have time limited error recovery for raid.


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## PC eye

But the one thing still being missed is actually who not any "mom + pop shop" jibberish by someone there actually first recommended staying with  WD a good number of years back. The term "expert" still lacks for a person who could easily make the last two posters here look like total morons! It's funny only "certain people" seem to have all these problems with WD drives.

The fact is for the most WD and Seagate always end up being the best two brands to look at even over Maxtor. Both companies make excellent drives to begin with despite the noise being made by a few. On one old WIN95 Packard Bell where a Seagate 1.2gb drive failed a WD Cavier SE 1.4gb model was the replacement there. That old system still runs with the same drive since the 90s. That's well over 5yrs.!


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## SirKenin

StrangleHold said:


> Your best bet is to completely ignore PCeye. Theres a reason the SE model only has a 3 year warranty and the W/D RE has 5 and the Seagate has 5 years.


 
They just raised that too..  Up until summer of last year it was one year.  I guess they had to do something to compete.

But yeah.. there's a very good reason why I ditched my "WD Authorized Reseller" status...  Cuz... They are total garbage.


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## 911aaron

If my HDD did die, I could probably retrieve all the data I lost again so I'm not too concerned because of that (although it would it would take alot of time and be very annoying to re-download everything again). The only thing I'm afraid of is that if I install OEM xp home to the HDD and the HDD dies, I can't use my OEM xp home to install onto a new HDD and I'd have to buy another OEM. Do I have my facts right or am I off?

As long as I can transfer my XP home OEM onto another hard drive, in case the previous hard drives dies, I'll be okay with it.


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## PC eye

You are off there. In fact with the "unbranded" not branded OEM disks for XP you can see Windows installed on three personal or family systems in the same household. With Vista that remains at one on the new version according to the licensing there. 

As far as replacing or upgrading a hard drive that's still on the exact same system. In fact MS allowed for that with the original product reactivation allowance for periodic upgrades of hardwares.


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## 911aaron

So is this OEM that I provided below, "unbranded" and can be used on three personal/family systems? 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116056

So if I understand you correctly, if I were to replace my hard drive with another hard drive, I am legally allowed to transfer the OEM disk onto the new hard drive as long as the hard drive was the only thing being replaced?


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## StrangleHold

Yes you can install a new harddrive. Dont know where he got that you could install a unbranded OEM on 3 Computers, but I dont know where he gets much of his nonsense. But no a unbranded OEM is tied to the computer just like a branded OEM. Unbranded is just for System Builders no different. Please ignore PCeye.

Use of this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user support for the Windows software(( and cannot be transferred to another computer once it is installed)). To acquire Windows software with support provided by Microsoft please see our full package "Retail" product offerings.


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## PC eye

You would simply be reinstalling Windows on the exact same machine with a simple hardware change namely the drive. I moved Vista off of an ide drive here to see that reinstalled fresh on a larger sata model. 

It's common for someone with a full install disk to decide to replace one drive with a larger one or even reinstall Windows in a dual boot with another version or a Linux distro. No problem simply install Windows on the new drive. MS isn't worried about you replacing or upgrading a drive. That's still well within the licensing snce this is on the exact same system. The information on the OEM for XP happens to come from someone who beta tests for MS directly.


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## 911aaron

Oh I see. Knowing this, I guess I will go with the Seagate just because of the 32mb cache. But before I purchase it, I got a question about Newegg's warranties. Lets say I bought a product that has a Limited 30-Day Return Policy. If I want a replacement I must send it back to Newegg before the 30 days is over. Let's say I did so and I got my replacement a few days later. Does this mean the Limited 30-Day Return Policy will start over again on the day I receive my new replacement or does it continue to live off the original Limited 30-Day Return Policy I started off with?


EDIT: What do you guys think about this HDD?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152052


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## PC eye

Samsung, Hitachi, and other off names are rather recent brands and not always the best of quality. Personally I wouldn't tough any of the recent brand names for sure.

There's nothing wrong with either to the two drives you were looking despite the noise made by a few there. When you ask around to people that use WD drives rarely do you hear any complaints. 

I occasionally will see a pm where someone can't figure why all the noise was made on other threads when they have reliable results using SE and other models by WD or Seagate. The way you maintain a case keeping any drive from overheating and cold hard starts generally sees any good brand drive last to start with.


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## 911aaron

Well I'm using a Hitachi HDD right now and it seems to be working quite well so far in the 8 months I've had it. No problems I've noticed. I'll stick to seagate or WD anyways, probably the seagate cause of the 32mb cache. I'd still like to know how newegg's policies work.

Lets say I bought a product that has a Limited 30-Day Return Policy. If I want a replacement I must send it back to Newegg before the 30 days is over. Let's say I did so and I got my replacement a few days later. Does this mean the Limited 30-Day Return Policy will start over again on the day I receive my new replacement or does it continue to live off the original Limited 30-Day Return Policy I started off with?


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## PC eye

When the first board here on the present build quit only after 3 days I contacted newegg for an rma number and saw that taken care of within the 30day period fast. They stick to that with anything problems later seeing a need to contact the manufacturer to ship it to them under their own limited manufacturer's warranty. That goes for just about any hardware while they generally honor their own return policy if you catch the 30day limit in time.


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## 911aaron

Oh okay. Thanks. I'll be purchasing everything tomorrow. Thanks very much PC eye and everyone else!

EDIT: Actually I do have one more question. Yes they never cease to stop 

Let's say there were two HDD that had the same exact specs except that one of them was a 250GB HDD while the other was a 500GB HDD. Would the 250GB be faster then the 500GB? I think the 250GB HDD would be faster because theres less space that it needs to look through. Am I correct? If I am correct, how fast of a difference would this be and is it something I should really be concerned about?


I'm asking because I'm thinking about getting a 250GB HDD and installing my OS and games on that while putting the rest of my media onto a 500GB HDD.


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## myPCrocks

SirKenin said:


> They just raised that too..  Up until summer of last year it was one year.  I guess they had to do something to compete.
> 
> But yeah.. there's a very good reason why I ditched my "WD Authorized Reseller" status...  Cuz... They are total garbage.




That is such BS, I have installed hundreds of WD HDD in the last 8 years and had only one fail.

Yep, they are garbage.


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## SirKenin

911aaron said:


> Well I'm using a Hitachi HDD right now and it seems to be working quite well so far in the 8 months I've had it. No problems I've noticed. I'll stick to seagate or WD anyways, probably the seagate cause of the 32mb cache. I'd still like to know how newegg's policies work.
> 
> Lets say I bought a product that has a Limited 30-Day Return Policy. If I want a replacement I must send it back to Newegg before the 30 days is over. Let's say I did so and I got my replacement a few days later. Does this mean the Limited 30-Day Return Policy will start over again on the day I receive my new replacement or does it continue to live off the original Limited 30-Day Return Policy I started off with?


 
Ok. ANY Windows can only be installed on one computer at a time. The difference between OEM and retail is that retail is transferable, OEM isn't.

The warranty is 30 days, period. Even if you have to send it back the warranty doesn't start over again. After the 30 days you have to send it back to Seagate.

A caviar SE has troubles with the following issues:

Heat. They can't handle heat. A poorly ventilated case is death to a Caviar SE.

Significant write/rewrite transactions. Disk errors develop and eventually the drive will stop loading Windows.

They are infamous for a) the click of death and b) corrupting the MFT. Unmountable Boot Volume errors are exceedingly common with Caviar SEs.

Multiple users accessing shares. A Caviar SE self destructs as it can't handle the volume of transactions.

Losing security descriptors. People will be told they are opening files "read only" or not having appropriate permissions for transactions they once had.

The newer ones have significant issues with aftermarket external casings. Delayed write failures are disturbingly frequent. $MFT errors pop up regularly. The drive will actually shut down, causing it to disappear altogether from "My Computer". 

Another example. I have a computer that's sole purpose is to record video off the cameras in my store. The software records every time the cameras detect motion. For fun I put a WD Caviar SE that I had lying around. The drive lasted a month before it quit.

I have a friend that was contracted by the government for IT work. His first day on the job consisted of RMAing two boxes full of dead WD Caviar SE drives.

I repair or replace a Caviar SE 3 or more times a week. My estimate is 90% of all drive problems I encounter on the job site are Caviar SE drives.

I've been selling computers full time since 1999. I've been using them since the mid 80's. I've owned, sold and serviced every brand of drive available. The three worst were the Connor, Fujitsu desktop line and the WD Caviar SE. Connor went under, Fujitsu stopped making desktop drives and I ditched the Caviar SE lineup.

Notably bad drives:

Maxtor DiamondMax 8
Maxtor Fireball 3
Maxtor DM740
Any Fujitsu desktop drive
Caviar SE
Connor
Hitachi 60/75 GXP "Deathstars"

I'm not talking a few drives here and there... I'm talking thousands of drives.

Take it for whatever you feel it's worth.


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## PC eye

myPCrocks said:


> That is such BS, I have installed hundreds of WD HDD in the last 8 years and had only one fail.
> 
> Yep, they are garbage.


 
The only one that finally quit here used on different builds in fact was due to loaning to a friend who never uses a can of air cleaner. I also had to replace his video card later after pulling a blanket of dust and debris off the board there! The ori ginal card was seeing all kinds of jagged lines and distortions on the screen there.

Other then that unnecessary mishap I get asked to help on various builds by several people over the last deacde all using WD SE drives in fact not seeing one fail. Now you see why I mentioned earlier that some just want to make a lot of noise.

Now for drive sizes a 250gb 7,200 drive seems faster while the read/write have to travel further across the drive's platters being less dense in capcity there. With a larger drive holding more data you have to expect that it will take longer simply because there is more information to access while a practically bare 500gb drive will actually seem faster then a 250gb loaded with programs and files. 

Nothing beats a new clean install of Windows since that is free of the accumilated garbage that can easily build up as far as useless temp install folders and leftover entries in the system registry as well as a long list of startup items. A clean install of Windows here on a 500gb sata moved like lightning when seeing Vista go there after having been run on a 250gb ide drive. It was the clean install not sata over ide or drive size there.


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## SirKenin

Well, the way I see it is this. An obvious fraud that's been so badly hammered in the forum for obviously not knowing what they're talking about... Repeatedly beaten into submission for the lies and bs.. and not providing any proof that they're even close to what they say they are, irrelevant screenshots included.. And the increasingly obvious fact that they claim one thing, yet everything they say or do proves something ENTIRELY different (ie "I'm a tech" when everything they say proves "I'm a search-engine hack").

See, in cases like this you know that a person actually has very little real life experience, despite any claims they might make. Yeah, they might be a hobbyist, or they might putter around on one while they watch the 2000 left turn show on TSN and drink their Budweiser (or rubbing alcohol, depending on their budget)... But in reality it's blatantly obvious that they don't have anywhere near the practical experience they claim to have.. Which makes claims as seen in the previous post irrelevant, perhaps even borderline fraudulent...and at the very, very least primarily argumentitive. 

"I've only seen such and such" means nothing when it's disturbingly obvious that their experience is not even close to some of the more recognized posters on the forum.....which brings me back to the point that someone citing a sample size of a dozen is far less pertinent with their observations than someone with a sample size of hundreds or thousands of the unit in question.

As opposed to people that have consistenly proven fair, unbiased, factual and reliable and have repeatedly demonstrated through their words and their supporting documentation, photographs, etc, that they are who they say they are..

It's not too hard to figure out who exactly is "blowing smoke".

But, we leave it up to the members.. and many of the members have already publicly stated that a certain someone who shall remain nameless is a useless contributor to this board and needs to just go away.. Thankfully for a while they did and with any luck at all they will do so again in short order.

The board was peaceful during that time.. .and with any luck at all will return there soon enough.


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## StrangleHold

Its amazing some of the stuff he has said. Anywhere from mysterious extra wide IDE cables - Some type of memory controller on a XP Athlon 3200 for DDR memory(it doesnt have one) - Uninstalling your USB drivers it will trash Windows - Didnt even know his own processor doesnt run memory at full speed - Ran his own processor at 107c for a few (hours) before he thought something might be wrong - Didnt even know his own case didnt have a speaker and even told someone where it was - Thinks the 8mb of unallocated space left by the Windows partition and formatting tool was a flaw in Windows.

It goes on and on but its starting to make my head hurt!


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## SirKenin

lmao!! zomg, I forgot all about the extra wide IDE cables. roflmao. Quite possibly the most infamous line of crap ever spouted on this forum, and I FORGOT!!!!

Oh man.. The serial ATA jumper debacle, where he mouthed off The Other One and got totally pwned in the process, even by his very own screenshots (which was, funny enough, a shot of a WD Caviar SE SATA II drive).. If he doesn't even know that his beloved drive has jumpers, even when his own photo shoves them right in his puss... How the hell would he be able to comment on something like reliability?

lmao. Classic stuff. Mr. "I know everything about the Antec 900... Mines sitting right over there in the corner, not even opened yet".

Or what about the Knoppix thing where he was bashing me about knowing nothing about it, or not even using it, in the same thread where I showed a photograph with it sitting there on the screen with an error message? That one pickled me tink. 

Come to think of it, there was another pic I posted in that thread with 3 or 4 dead Caviars in the shot..  From my office..  Has he ever posted a pic to back up ANYTHING he's ever claimed besides some useless screencaptures of Newegg, a bunch of irrelevant photos from image searches and some hacked tombstones?  And there are people still actually LISTENING to this guy?  haha.

Oh god.. My sides are starting to hurt and my cheeks are sore as hell now. Man, we've had some good times on here thanks to that asshat. I'm starting to second guess myself about wishing he'd just disappear. It's way more fun having someone to laugh at.


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## PC eye

Talking to yourselves again? What did I tell you guys before you need some professional therapy! The both of you keep wondering into your own world of delusions apparently. That needs to be seen to.


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## StrangleHold

I really have come to the conclusion that you have had a Excerebration performed!


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## PC eye

So that's your excuse then? You had your brains...? Well that seems about the best you can do since you haven't been posting anything worthwhile and subject related. I would likely expect the adolescent remarks to eventually wear out but not with some apparently.


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## SirKenin




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## SirKenin




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## PC eye

Sorry 911aaron you had to see the typical thread hijack with nothing but the limited mentality instead of anything useful information being posted by some people experiencing some deep personal problems apparently.


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## 911aaron

Lol its fine. It's somewhat amusing to see this flame war.
Well I decided to just get this HDD instead.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148262
I'm going to store my OS and all my games onto this hard drive. Then I'm going to get a external hard drive and store my videos and other stuff onto that. However I dont know much about external hard drives so may I ask, how does External hard drives exactly work? Do you just plug it into a USB port and you can start adding and reading data on it? Are external hard drives inferior to internal hard drives?

This external hard drive looks good to me.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822216035
What do you think?


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## SirKenin

lol.  Says the guy who was posting tombstone hacks and roadsign sign hacks, both with personal Sir Kenin attacks

911aaron, stick around.  The guy may be a total idiot, but it's arguably the best entertainment on this forum.


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## StrangleHold

That drive will be fine. A external yes just plug it in, windows will recognize it, go to Disk Management and partition it and format. 

Never used one of those externals, Kenin might know better on that.


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## SirKenin

PC eye said:


> Sorry 911aaron you had to see the typical thread hijack with nothing but the limited mentality instead of anything useful information being posted by some people experiencing some deep personal problems apparently.


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## 911aaron

So external hard drives are *exactly* like internal hard drives, except they are external? No downsides??


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## SirKenin

cooling can be an issue, but other than that you're good.


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## 911aaron

okay. 

Sounds great, but one question
The external hard drive has a esata port which can transfer data at a faster rate compared to a USB. Where does the other end of the esata cord plug into my computer?


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## SirKenin

You need an eSATA port.  Most new boards come with them, sometimes it's a knock-out that plugs into the SATA port on your mobo and has a plate that you put in the back of your case.


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## StrangleHold

If you dont have one you can get one of thse jobs.


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## 911aaron

I wouldn't be able to use the esata option on this mobo and this external HD huh?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822216035


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## SirKenin

Sure you can.  It just goes into a normal SATA port.


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## 911aaron

Oh okay. aww that means i have to take my side panel on my case off to use it huh? Lol oh well.

Could I transfer the external hard drive between two computers? Use it sorta like a USB flash drive?


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## StrangleHold

That would be a pain, just use one of these, there like 8 bucks.


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## SirKenin

The device Stranglehold is showing you plugs into a regular SATA port.   that's what I was referring to.


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## 911aaron

Oh so I plug the cord into my SATA port on my mobo then i plug the esata into that device?

I see. What is that device called though?


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## SirKenin

It's called a "unit"    AKA doohickey, thing-a-ma-jigger, that thing...you know... or more affectionately as a "fuktifino"


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## StrangleHold

SirKenin said:


> It's called a "unit"  AKA doohickey, thing-a-ma-jigger, that thing...you know... or more affectionately as a "fuktifino"


 

Sata to eSata thing that fits in the back on my computer.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812206003 

Think they even make eSata PCI cards.


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## 911aaron

I found it
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812226006


One question still goes unanswered though:
Could I transfer the external hard drive between two computers? Use it sorta like a USB flash drive?


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## SirKenin

Without a doubt, absolutely no question in my mind, the answer is "maybe".


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## 911aaron

I read a review on a external hard drive and it hinted that i can use it on multiple computers. I'll probably get it.


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## PC eye

911aaron said:


> I found it
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812226006
> 
> 
> One question still goes unanswered though:
> Could I transfer the external hard drive between two computers? Use it sorta like a USB flash drive?


 
All an eSata port does is add an extension cable that plugs directly into the board while the drive is in an external housing. The case here already sees an eSata port at the top of the case along with extra audio jacks and a pair of usb ports. 

For other cases you would use a PCI adaper with one or two ports seen on that for a case lacking a port. An eSata capable external drive is generally preferred over a usb model since you have a direct plug in rather then counting on the usb bus for access time while a usb external is far more convenient while transfering files between let's say a laptop and desktop being more portable.


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## SirKenin




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## fortyways

The expansion card sees your case as seen there and the seen SATA sees your motherboard's SATA connector so your seen external hard drive can see SATA through the seen expansion card.


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## SirKenin

fortyways said:


> The expansion card sees your case as seen there and the seen SATA sees your motherboard's SATA connector so your seen external hard drive can see SATA through the seen expansion card.


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## 911aaron

where are you getting these pictures from? lol


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## SirKenin

A couple of them I "made" (ie added the text), the rest are from http://www.icanhascheezburger.com   That site cracks me up every time I go there.  I have a bunch saved to my computer.


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## Cleric7x9

PC eye said:


> All an eSata port does is add an extension cable that plugs directly into the board while the drive is in an external housing. The case here already sees an eSata port at the top of the case along with extra audio jacks and a pair of usb ports.
> 
> For other cases you would use a PCI adaper with one or two ports seen on that for a case lacking a port. An eSata capable external drive is generally preferred over a usb model since you have a direct plug in rather then counting on the usb bus for access time while a usb external is far more convenient while transfering files between let's say a laptop and desktop being more portable.



an eSata port is different from an internal Sata port. you cannot use the same cable, so saying "all it does  is add an extension cable" is a little simplistic, because that would imply you could simply plug your eSata device directly into your motherboard if you wanted to, which is not correct


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## Cleric7x9

fortyways said:


> The expansion card sees your case as seen there and the seen SATA sees your motherboard's SATA connector so your seen external hard drive can see SATA through the seen expansion card.



spot on


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## PC eye

Cleric7x9 said:


> an eSata port is different from an internal Sata port. you cannot use the same cable, so saying "all it does is add an extension cable" is a little simplistic, because that would imply you could simply plug your eSata device directly into your motherboard if you wanted to, which is not correct


 
Where are you coming up with that? An eSata port uses a different type of connector while still seeing a cable go directly to the board. The addon cards see the standard sata type connector there. 

The external drive still sees a direct connection to the board with two cables instead of one. A usb or firewire model uses a totally different bus for those while external can still be removed from the casing and installed internally. Did you know that? Probably not. And did you know that not all external drives are sata.


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## Cleric7x9

PC eye said:


> Where are you coming up with that? An eSata port uses a different type of connector while still seeing a cable go directly to the board. The addon cards see the standard sata type connector there.
> 
> The external drive still sees a direct connection to the board with two cables instead of one. A usb or firewire model uses a totally different bus for those while external can still be removed from the casing and installed internally. Did you know that? Probably not. And did you know that not all external drives are sata.



yes, im aware that not all external drives are esata, not sure why you brought that up. and please stop using 'see' in place of 'have,' it makes it very hard to understand what you are saying when you misuse verbs. and sata uses a bus just the same as USB does. a usb port connects to the motherboard just as a sata port does. it just so happens that a sata port is faster, but not because it bypasses anything, but because its a FASTER bus. and all i said was that an esata port connector is different than a sata port connector. you are arguing things (poorly) that nobody even said.


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## PC eye

You still missed the point being made. And eSata drive still plugs directly into the board's own sata port by way of having two cables(one to eSata port or addon card with standard sata ports seen there) while an external drive plugging into a usb port or using a firewire connection is then on a totally different bus. 

Data has to cross over from one bus to another when going to copy files from drive to drive whether internal to external or reverse. Now was that difficult to follow?


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## TrainTrackHack

Why are you going with this dumb eSata flame war? Just get an external HDD that plugs into a USB port. At least it will work on every computer (unless you have windows 3.1 installed)... I've been very happy with mine, never had a problem. Also, don't you need to us an external power source if you have an eSata portable... SATA ports can't supply the voltage required to spin the platters, can they?

Not every computer out there sees an eSata port, which is why I would rather see a USB HDD being bought, as seen. And yes, a USB HDD can be seen used just like a USB flashdrive, as seen here, here, and here:
<imagine a buncha screenshots>

 -jKz-


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## PC eye

Some others like to see threads torn up rather then staying on topic I guess. The only thing seen with usb or firewire drives is a slight delay when first going to browse or copy files to them or from them. An eSata drive being connected directly by way of two not one data cable despite seeing the break for the two types of plugs is simply quicker to access being plugged into a sata port.

When copying or moving large files or a large volume of files the time is less with an eSata while transferring files back and forth between systems is obviously easier since 98SE up supports usb not 95 or 3.1. External drives see their own power source being the ac to 12v wall adapter while the data cable(s) allows Windows to control the drive.


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## TrainTrackHack

Umm what delay? Didn't notice...

How exactly would copying of a large colume of files be faster when using an eSata external? AFAIK harddrives simply ain't fast enough to be limited by USB 2.0 standard, am I not right?

Anyway, I do have a portable HD that plugs into USB, no separate power cables needed. As a matter of fact, most external HDDs I've seen out there don't need a separate power supply.


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## PC eye

The WD usb external model here has a small ac wall adapter for power and the single usb cable going to a port. It does take just a second or so longer since an eSata or drive that has cable plugging into an expansion with standard ports on it is under the onboard sata controllers directly.

When and if you unplug and then replug a usb drive with the original factory Fat32 partition on it there's the automatic delay seen when Windows has to redetect the drive and the software installer comes up. When reformatted to NTFS the autorun.inf file will see the autoplay popup seen when putting a disk in an optical drive on XP. On Vista the recognition is instantaneous there.


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## SirKenin

When you add any new device to any external or internal port in Windows, the first time it's installed it detects the devices and installs the drivers. There will be a delay there. This holds true regardless of the file system on the drive, because the file system has absolutely nothing to do with the drivers being loaded. This is an issue with the controller drivers being loaded, something that is completely and totally file system and interface independent.

The next time, provided it's plugged into the exact same port, the loading will be almost instantaneous, regardless of whether it's eSATA or USB 2. 

It doesn't matter if it's FAT, NTFS or CDFS, autorun.inf or no autorun.inf, if autorun is enabled in Windows, a menu will pop up, even if it's just to say "open folder to view files". If it doesn't, MS offers a tool on their website to fix this feature.

There exists no drive on the market that I know of that is capable of saturating a USB 2.0 bus continuous. It is conceivable that could change in the near future. The sole exception may be transfers of very large, contiguous files.

USB 2.0 can easily power a 2.5" drive. On the rare exception that it can't, the USB cable will have two plugs on it to plug into two USB ports for the extra power. 3.5" drive results vary. Typically they need a power adapter.

eSATA can not power an external drive.

Most external enclosures will offer both USB 2 and eSATA if they offer eSATA connectivity. Thus, it's not an issue if you choose to use the eSATA capability on one computer, USB 2 on the other.

The portable drive can be completely blank and Windows will still autodetect it and install the drivers. The exception is Windows 98. However, the manufacturer provides a driver disk for the rare occasion that a person is using a Windows 98 computer. The same holds true for USB thumbdrives.


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## PC eye

The Disk Management tool will see any drive detected while the software that comes preinstalled on the external drives is due to the factory Fat32 partitions for use with both Windows and Mac. Mac can't use NTFS while it can access Fat32 with the software companies preinstall. This is why Windows users are advised to see the partition redone as NTFS for instant availability being native to 2000, XP. and Vista.

When an installed drive still seeing the factory partition is unplugged before starting the system and then replugging it in while Windows is up the autorun file will see the installer come back up again once the drive is detected. Sometimes seeing the drive shut totally when the system is shutdown requires a restart of the system and a second shutdown if you had unplugged the drive instead of leaving it plugged in at all times.

The main item that will come up with a usb model while generally still reliable is simply seeing the occasional glitch seen with any usb addon device. An eSata drive on the other hand goes direct to a sata port on the board. That will always be instant recognition just as if the drive was installed internally. Drivers for usb devices occasionally need to be refreshed or reinstalled when some drive or device fails to be immediately seen.


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## SirKenin




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## PC eye

I think someone watches too much saturday morning tv and desperately wants to act out in that fashion!


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## SirKenin

haha


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## PC eye

Someone is definitely in need of psychiatry! That becomes clearly obvious. You're really in need of some extensive therapy there as it becomes far more obvious.


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## SirKenin




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## mep916

Break it up guys.


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## SirKenin




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## PC eye

mep916 said:


> Break it up guys.


 
You may as well forget trying to use a voice of reason due to the patient that somehow got out.  You know as well I do that someone doesn't even understand the term staying on topic.


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## SirKenin

Forget the holier than thou reasoning, PC eye..  Your reputation precedes you...  Except you're the wingnut who's rambling on and on, arguing against a bunch of funny pictures.  The same wingnut who trashed numerous threads with irrelevant screenshots, debating strawmen, posting tombstones and roadsigns.

Guy..  you're a hypocrite.


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## SirKenin

Funny thing, though. I'm sitting here bustin a gut at these silly pictures.  My g/f and I are laughing our arses off at the posting..  and PC eye is getting all bent out of shape with his condemnations, which is making us laugh even harder.

Sorry OP, but now that the thread has run it's course, I hope you find nothing wrong with a little entertainment at our resident wingnut's expense.  If you do, I digress and give you a free one day subscription to icanhascheezburger.com as a peace offering.

rofl


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## porterjw

Wow...

How the hell did I miss this Thread until now?

Voice of reason? How about this... SK, Strangle, forty, and pretty much everyone else who posted in this Thread who's name is not PC Eye knows their stuff. It would *greatly* benefit the OP to do a search for Posts made by PC and try to make sense of them.

And for the record, 





fortyways said:


> The expansion card sees your case as seen there and the seen SATA sees your motherboard's SATA connector so your seen external hard drive can see SATA through the seen expansion card.


 is probably the single greatest Post CF has ever seen...as seen here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dalmdad/133848969/

here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_hasselbom/206696387/

and here: http://www.carafoli.com/articles/cctimes/images/grill1.jpg


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## 911aaron

How the hell are those pictures relevant to your discussion. lol


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## SirKenin




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## Cromewell

As humourous as this thread is, it's done now.


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