# I Have made a Decision, What do you all think?



## Meraxus

Ok I have Finally Decided to build my own PC from the ground up because I can't find a site that has all the options I want. Below is the list of components, Tell me what you think as far as Item Quality and Price, most of these prices are off of Newegg.com Website. Oh before the list I had 2 Questions, as far as Operating Systems what is the difference between OEM and Retail? are they exactly the same except for the box and instructions? Last question, for Graphics Cards I want a 256MB AGP 8X card, I want to wait for the Nvidia 6800 Ultra but radeon has the X800, has anyone seen anything on these cards? Which brand do you believe is better? Ok here is the list:

1. Aspire X-Alien Turbo Case w/500W PSU(was thinking of buying a better quality PSU if this one turns out to be crap).  138$

2. ABIT IC7 MAXX3.     185$

3. Prescott P4 3.0Ghz w/1MB L2 Cache W/ HT Technology.  215$

4. 1GB (2x512)  PC 3200 Kingston Hyper-X Dual Channel Memory.   289.99$

5. SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS.    88$

6. Logitech Z-5300 5.1 THX Speakers.   139$

7. Western Digital 80 GB 7200 RPM HD.   105$

and the rest is just DVD/CD Burner, DVD rom and floppy drive.

Well that is what I have decided now i just need an OS and a kick Ass Graphics Card  Any Input is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.


----------



## Praetor

> Aspire X-Alien Turbo Case w/500W PSU(was thinking of buying a better quality PSU if this one turns out to be crap). 138$


IMO, too much bling bling, not enough functionality. Go after the tried-true Chenming 601/602s 



> ABIT IC7 MAXX3. 185$


Superb board, very solid. If i'm not mistaken, that board has OTES? If so, make sure the case supports the exhaust.... not sure many cases suppor them.



> Prescott P4 3.0Ghz w/1MB L2 Cache W/ HT Technology. 215$


Decent price but for a chip that essentially is just a P4C with more cache as being the net performance improvement, you may consider otherwise (i.e., going for the P4Cs) if prices are better. You will definitely want a solid HSF for this heat cannon



> 1GB (2x512) PC 3200 Kingston Hyper-X Dual Channel Memory. 289.99$


While I'm a Corsair (and more recently OCz) guy, Kingson's memory isnt bad at all.



> SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS. 88$


A nice solid card, decent price.



> Western Digital 80 GB 7200 RPM HD. 105$


Shockingly skimpy everything else considering: i'd jack the drive up to the 160GB 7200 8MB version if budget allows



> the rest is just DVD/CD Burner


This is important! What burner? 



> i just need an OS


Short of going Linux, you should probably be looking at WXP Pro.



> kick Ass Graphics Card


How much money do you want to spend?


----------



## Smallplayer_French_LOL

yep The ATI 9800 Pro is a Kicked ass card lol and really cheap ! just 230 € lol


----------



## Praetor

Surely you can get a better price than 230 Euro? I know prices in Europe are typically more expensive but thats almost outrageously expensive.  The only reason i asked about the price range was because you can spend $150USD for a midrange card (9600/5700) all the way up to the $400USD range.


----------



## 72montecarlo

Well graphics card wise the Nvidia 6800 ultra performs just as well as the ati Radeon x800 in benchmark testing. one major difference being nvidia decided to add in the support for pixel shader 3.0 which is why the vpu is so much larger and the heatsink to go with it. the radeon is smaller and generates less heat because it doesnt have support for pixel shader 3.0. Thing is very few games will even take advantage of pixel shader 3.0 for a while. You would be perfectly fine going with the x800, but if you want to wait for the nvidia you will get the newest shader support so you can be ready once games start coming out in the future to take advantage of the feature. Either way both cards are awesome and neither one is lacking.


----------



## Praetor

I just did a quick lookup of ATI's card line-up and found this:

*9800 Series 
*256bit memory Interface 
AGP8x 
Support for Smartshader 2.1 
Support for HyperZ III+ 
8 pipelines 
4 shaders 

*X600 Series*
128bit memory interface 
x16 PCI-X (theoreitcally AGP16X) 
Support for Smartshader 2.0 
Support for HyperZ III 
4 pipelines 
2 shaders 

Now unless Im mistaken, that's a case of a top generation-old card beating the snot out of a midrange current generation card -- since maybe the GF2Ultra vs GF3Baseline, that's not happened... troubling that ATI would choose to do that


----------



## Meraxus

Thanks for the input guys.

I am still deciding on a case but I looked at the Chenming. Thanks for the suggestion. As for the Mobo it does have that and I'm not exactly sure how to deal with it so I went with the ABIT IC7-G MAXXII which is pretty much the same thing without the OTES. I Looked at the Memory again and found come nice Corsair XMS Dual Channel Extreme Memory Speed Series for 263$ is that a good type? The Hard Drive I will be getting is a Western Digital 120GB I have a 60GB Slave drive in my current computer that I am going to wipe and add to the new comp it is a Maxtor 7200 RPM HD.

The DVD/CD Burner is a TDK Multi Platform DVD Burner, 12X DVD+R, 4X DVD+RW, 8X DVD-R, 4X DVD-RW, 48X CD-R, 24X CD-RW.

I'm going to go with the Windows XP Pro OEM Version for 141$

As for the Graphics card I am willing to pay around 500$ for a top of the line Graphics card, I prefer Nvidia, but never tried Radeon so maybe I am biased.

you said I need a nice HSF for my Processor what brand is good? should I be looking for a certain RPM?

Thanks for all the input guys I am finally starting to get this together.


----------



## Smallplayer_French_LOL

what is a HSF ?


----------



## Meraxus

I'm assuming it a Heat Sink Fan for the processor Smallplayer.


----------



## Smallplayer_French_LOL

oki doki lol ( sorry you saw that im not good in english lol )

so ! i will search...

LOL there is too much choices lol u can look here lol : http://www.monsieurprix.com/hardware/gen/140059.html

okay my links are french but u can do an idea first


----------



## Smallplayer_French_LOL

else u want Just the fan or the fan + the rad ?


----------



## Smallplayer_French_LOL

http://www.monsieurprix.com/listing/gen/J000060255.html for the rad


----------



## Praetor

> ABIT IC7-G MAXXII which is pretty much the same thing without the OTES


Awesome call... if I went Intel that's probably the board I'd get (other than the ASUS) ... ive got enough fans to deal with circulation.



> Corsair XMS Dual Channel Extreme Memory Speed Series for 263$ is that a good type?


Yep!



> The Hard Drive I will be getting is a Western Digital 120GB


Is that the 2MB cache version or the 8MB cache version?



> The DVD/CD Burner is a TDK Multi Platform DVD Burner, 12X DVD+R, 4X DVD+RW, 8X DVD-R, 4X DVD-RW, 48X CD-R, 24X CD-RW


How much is this? Depending on the cost I might reccomend you grab the Plextor 708A instead. Doesnt have the speed of the 712 but a lot more functionality and reliability than the TDK (i used to be a TDK fan, now im an ASUS/Liteon fan but the Plexy's are "on their own") ... of course considering the rest of the system (and its cost) id strongly advise you hunt down a Plextor712 -- best dvd burner on the planet hands down.



> As for the Graphics card I am willing to pay around 500$ for a top of the line Graphics card, I prefer Nvidia, but never tried Radeon so maybe I am biased.


Apprently the bias is warranted: nvidia's 6800 have support for Shader spec 3.0 where the X800 does not.... strange that ATI decided to skip out on it. Personally I'd take the 6800... but realitsically it doesnt matter much



> you said I need a nice HSF for my Processor what brand is good? should I be looking for a certain RPM?


Not specifically an RPM value .... do you like loud or quiet? I've posted a crapload of ideas and suggestions for both here: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/81431 ... of course if you want really fancy (read: expensive), grab a VapoChill -- they are "affordable" and weigh in at $400USD


----------



## Smallplayer_French_LOL

http://www.monsieurprix.com/listing/gen/J000058165.htmlthis is not bad LOL


----------



## Praetor

eeeeeeeeeeew! Puny ... the Cu/Al heatsink is probably very well done (Zalman does know how to make heatsinks) however the fan simply doesnt put out enough CFM to keep the cooler effective (IMO)

A tad more expensive a probably much more effective (i'm considering one)
http://www.monsieurprix.com/listing/gen/J000051903.html

This cooler doesnt have the "deadzone" in the center:
http://www.monsieurprix.com/listing/gen/J000052472.html

Centrifugal Cooling:
http://www.monsieurprix.com/listing/gen/J000064720.html
http://www.monsieurprix.com/listing/gen/J000059924.html

Nothing Quite LIke "Brute Force COoling"
http://www.monsieurprix.com/listing/gen/J000075524.html  (<< superb cooler ... nice and loud)
http://www.monsieurprix.com/listing/gen/J000024923.html


----------



## Smallplayer_French_LOL

huh ? lol

and what? lol thats good links ?


----------



## Praetor

Those are just a few good HSF setups ... taken from your site of choice at that


----------



## Smallplayer_French_LOL

lol i dont understand sorry about that.....

i understand that there is a few good adress but the other sentence no lol


----------



## Praetor

They are a bunch of good coolers for the CPU (my reccomendations)


----------



## Smallplayer_French_LOL

oki yes fortunatly !!!!! especially when u OC as me lol , im reasonable lol my 2500+ is at 2.1 Ghz more precisally 3000+ lol not as u LOL


----------



## Praetor

Actually my OC isnt anything special.... i just changed three things in my BIOS:
FSB --> 200
MEMORY --> 200
MEMORY MODE --> Performance 
No tinkering with voltages or anything (yet, i have to if i push it further)


----------



## Smallplayer_French_LOL

me i'm in 200 * 10.5 = 2100 if i want to got until 2200 i have to increase my Vcore voltage to 1.70 i believe ...


----------



## Meraxus

Ok, the Hard Drive is the 8MB cache. I also found the Plextor 712, Very nice I'm surprised I didnt notice it the first time.

As for the Graphics card, that is why I have been aiting for the 6800 Ultra. Does anyone know when they will not be backordered on all the sites I go to? 

Nice Forum link it helped a lot and seemed to point to thermaltake as a good brand, I got a nice CPU Fan with a Speed control. Supposed to handle up to 3.6 gig.

Thanks again fro all the suggestions guys, I'm sure I will have many more questions to come.


----------



## Praetor

Glad we could help out  dunno about if/when back-orders will stop though  it *is* a hot card.


----------



## Meraxus

Yeah I have been watching every site I can think of for the last few days. Hopefully soon because I would like the nvidia.


----------



## Praetor

You wont be dissapointed


----------



## Smallplayer_French_LOL

you will say us if it is a kicked ass card lol


----------



## Sypher04

Meraxus said:
			
		

> What is the difference between OEM and Retail? are they exactly the same except for the box and instructions?



I would not recommend an OEM. The difference between OEM and Retail Version is that, an OEM is a distributor liscence. The same product issued to multiple system purchasers.

It will cost less, but essentially you don't own your operating system. The company that issued the product key does.


----------



## Praetor

More importantly, when you buy OEM, you dont get the CD. Meaning if you need to reinstall you're screwed


----------



## Sypher04

> More importantly, when you buy OEM, you dont get the CD



Very true, in most cases. At best your are looking at a duplication of the original disc.. but there is never a gaurantee.


----------



## Praetor

Well i think (but dont quote me on this), the seller is allowed to duplicate the disc provided that they dont duplicate more discs than they legally have serial numbers for or something like that.


----------



## Sypher04

Yes, the liscence is purchased for "x" number of computers and they are only allowed to issue the duplication with product-key for the same amount.

Either way OEM's are still, and i think they should be avoided if possible.


----------



## Praetor

Yes indeed, 'sides you're prolly better installing it yourself because then at least you have some idea of what gunk is going into the system


----------



## Sypher04

Yes, its best to be present when an operating system is loaded, be it a retail or OEM version. Especially when it comes to giving out personal information needed for system registration purposes.


----------



## Praetor

> Especially when it comes to giving out personal information needed for system registration purposes.


When stores install OSs for you they dont use personal information. They use generic information (often the name of the company and in the 'worst' case, your last name). Furthermore, when you get teh computer, you dont get the OS cd. If you want to reinstall you will have to buy one


----------



## Blind_Arrow

Not always newest is best, Northwood is the best in P-4 series, and best out of northwood, is C series, if you have too much money to burn then burn a little more, get P-4 Prestonia rather than prescott.


----------



## Praetor

> Northwood is the best in P-4 series


Minor technicality ... the Prescott is better than the NorthwoodA


----------



## Meraxus

OK I got all my stuff yesterday and had a few questions, they may sound stupid but I wanted to be sure before I mess it up. The HSF Fan does it need the thermal tape the thermal compound or both? Also I have a DVD Drive and a DVD/CD Burner, which do I set to Slave and which to Master? I think that is it for now. If I come up with any other stumps I will let you know


----------



## Sypher04

Primary or slave will not matter, they will both work in either role. My suggestion is to set the Master (DVD/CD Writer) Slave (DVD), but ultimately it will not make a difference if you chose otherwise.


----------



## Sypher04

You should not need both the tape and compound, although no reason you can't. I would simply put the thermal tape on, i don't think its all necessary. Unless you already purchased both, in which case you may as well use it.


----------



## Praetor

> The HSF Fan does it need the thermal tape the thermal compound or both?


One *OR* the other. I'd reccomend the compound.



> Also I have a DVD Drive and a DVD/CD Burner, which do I set to Slave and which to Master?


Depends how you want to config your drives (i.e., two optical drives on one channel or hdd-optical drive configuration).



> Primary or slave will not matter, they will both work in either role


Yeah they will work -- but depending on the task they may not work _well_ (i.e., DVD-DVD OTF copying with them on the same channel)



> I would simply put the thermal tape on


Thermal compound is much more effective


----------



## Meraxus

Well I got the computer up and running today. Let me tell you I love it  Thanks for all your help guys and now that I know how to build a comp it will be easier next time


----------



## Praetor

See? It wasnt so bad after all!


----------



## Viper_86

*u a gamer?*

Hey man...not a bad machine,unless that is ur a big time gamer like myself who is going all out on top of the line stuff . i highky recommend the x800 xt platinum if u truely want the most gaming power out of ur pc. the x800 xt platinum isnt out yet but the x800 pro is. as for the x800 pro vs the nvidia 5800...go with the x800! 1st of all the x800 gives u better gaming performance at higher resolutions, which is good, in my opinion anyway coz it looks much better. the nvidia also uses a ton more power...using i think around 400-450 watt power supply and is much more demanding of ur machine, as for the x800, it only uses a 350 watt power supply, same as the radeon 9800 pro and xt. and the last thing i thot i might mention is ur processor, once again if u rnt a gamer then dont worry bout it, but i recommend an amd athalon over p4's any day! especially 4 games. the amd athalon 3800 is top of the line if ur willing to spend 800 bux on one piece of hardware...as for myself im going down 2 levels to a 3200, which is a great prrcessor, barely below the 3400. so theres some things to think about and if u rnt a gamer then sry for wasting ur time


----------



## Praetor

> Hey man...not a bad machine,unless that is ur a big time gamer like myself who is going all out on top of the line stuff


I'm not a rich-kid. I buy my own stuff



> x800 pro vs the nvidia 5800...go with the x800!


You seem likeyou know what you're talking about in general,why such a ridiculous comparison?


----------



## Viper_86

72montecarlo said:
			
		

> Well graphics card wise the Nvidia 6800 ultra performs just as well as the ati Radeon x800 in benchmark testing.QUOTE]
> 
> no way man, the x800 blew the 6800 away!...way better at higer resolutions and way less power required and less demanding of ur pc...still a very good card none the less...but i recommend the x800 over the 6800 anyday!


----------



## Viper_86

haha sry i meant the 6800


----------



## Viper_86

Praetor said:
			
		

> I'm not a rich-kid. I buy my own stuff



im no rich kid either...im just saving up for this computer that im gonan buy...right now im not even half way but i will b there after a couple more paychecks. im not very satisfied with 2nd rate computers... i have my standards set way up high..dont like to settle for much less computer-wise.


----------



## Praetor

> haha sry i meant the 6800


In that case id reccomend you check again. The 6800 series is  superior card -- even without resorting to fanboyism.  Now if you are comparing the X800XT to the GF6800 -- well no shit, you're comparing the top end card to the low end one ... no doubt the X800XT would win.

It is an interesting thing to note that while the X800 is a great series, the X600 and X300 series both can be kicked around by a stock 9800. It's quite remarkable also that ATi decided to make a 64bit version of the X300; with the 9200SE that made sense kind of and it filled a very good niche of subbudget card but with the new flagship "X" series, they should have left the budget cards with at least a 128bit interface.

Now if I understand the nVidia product line well enough, they've got the baseline bring the 6800 followed by the 6800GT and 6800Ultra and their various variants. Note that the top end of the previous generation (59x0 series) doesnt kick the 6800 and 6800GT series around like a ragdoll. 

This is a good thing that nVidia has done: they've provided developers with a very solid platform from which to base their games off. COnsider the GFX series, that was a mild success only because of the "support" the GFX5200 offered for DX9 but it lacked major in final overal performance. Now with the baseline 6800, "low performance" by our standards today and probably for the next 8-12 months) will not be the case -- even if it is, the baseline 6800 will outlive its counterpart the X300 by a large margin and will probably outlive even the X600. Does this mean that developers-hardware companies have gotten a working alliance to raise prises? Maybe, but there will always eb budget oriented cards --- and at least now there is an option where those budget cards from a given series arent put to shame by the previous generation of cards (consider that the GF4MX beat the GFX5200 in many benchmarks as well as the Radeon8500 beating the Radeon9000 all over)


----------



## Viper_86

Praetor said:
			
		

> Now if you are comparing the X800XT to the GF6800 -- well no shit, you're comparing the top end card to the low end one ... no doubt the X800XT would win.


While the Geforce 6800 is a great card, any of the x800 series outperforms the 6800, look at the benchmarks. the  6800 may be better with low resolution, tell me wut gamer uses 800X600 unless they have to. the x800 performs better at high resolutions, which is great!


----------



## Praetor

> While the Geforce 6800 is a great card, any of the x800 series outperforms the 6800, look at the benchmarks. the 6800 may be better with low resolution, tell me wut gamer uses 800X600 unless they have to. the x800 performs better at high resolutions, which is great!


I see we have a fanboy .... might i remind you if you visit nvidia's website you'll see benchmarks noting the exact opposite .... so much for benchmarks. In case you havnt realized it yet, benchmarks dont mean shit, both ATi and nVidia have benchmarks that indicate their company's point. Sides 00 you're comparing the top end cardm the X800, against the bottom end card, the 6800. Now if you did a proper comparison, it would be X300 vs 6800


----------



## Viper_86

Praetor said:
			
		

> Sides 00 you're comparing the top end cardm the X800, against the bottom end card, the 6800. Now if you did a proper comparison, it would be X300 vs 6800


well im sry but i like doing the top end cards of each company...thats how i decide what ill get, i get what is better obviously. its true that i have always liked ati's over nvidia's, ive had plenty of both and ati's cards have always satisfied me more. and you keep saying that the 6800 is the better card but then ask y i dont do a more fair comparison with the x300 vs the 6800, but if the 6800 was better than the x800 it would be a fair comparison. and im not saying that nvidia has a bad card, they're great, i just prefer having ati's cards.


----------



## Praetor

> well im sry but I like doing the top end cards of each company...thats how I decide what ill get, I get what is better obviously.


In that case, the comparison should be between the X800 and the 6800U



> and you keep saying that the 6800 is the better card but then ask y I dont do a more fair comparison with the x300 vs the 6800, but if the 6800 was better than the x800 it would be a fair comparison. and im not saying that nvidia has a bad card, they're great, I just prefer having ati's cards.


Yes! But your comparisons are worthless because you comparing a top end card to a low end car -- SURE... you're right but the results arent useful... let's just say for argument sake that the X800 is better than the 6800 ... ir would be quite a shock to see the X800 *not* beat the 6800 considering the you're comparing the top versus the bottom.

Edit: just to be comapring the 6800 to the X800 speaks volumes about the 6800 as it is


----------



## Viper_86

Praetor said:
			
		

> In that case, the comparison should be between the X800 and the 6800U



ok...ill take a look at the 6800U, havent heard anything or even of it till now. unless thats the nvidias newest card, which i thot was the 6800...so if the 6800U is nvidias newest card and the 6800 is older lower end card, then my comparison stand for the x800 vs the 6800U. ill look around at the 6800U a bit.


----------



## Praetor

> ok...ill take a look at the 6800U, havent heard anything or even of it till now. unless thats the nvidias newest card, which I thot was the 6800...so if the 6800U is nvidias newest card and the 6800 is older lower end card, then my comparison stand for the x800 vs the 6800U. ill look around at the 6800U a bit.


Kewl ... I havnt had much time to examine nVidia's product line much but as I understand it, they are structured as:
- Baseline: GF6800
- Midrange: GF6800GT
- Premium: GF6800U
Of course with variants amoung each "class" of cards. The ATi lineup looks like
- Baseline: X300
- Midrange: X600
- Premium: X800
Again with variants amoung each class.

Without debating which cards are faster than which because you and i both know that's a pointless pissing contest and both companies can make benchmarks that contrast with each other ... and unfortunately, Tom's cant be a trusted as an unbiased reviewer anymore (not for me at least, even though their bias agrees with my preference ... it's unprofessional .. but that's another rant). The bottom line is that benchmarks give a general idea -- the specific numbers are really irellevent unless one wants to get into pissing contests (which i'm not gonna do) .... it's more useful to look at trends and patterns with those numbers. Which raises an interesting point:

About Pixel Shader 3.0, currently an "nVidia only" kinda deal, there IS an improvement and a NOTICEABLE one at that (i was argueing with my friend, an ATI fan until he showed me otherwise). To be honest if there is an improvement on graphical quality, it's wasted on me as both Pixel Shader 2.0 and 3.0 look fabulous. The difference however is that the 6800-series perform shockingly better when making use of Pixel Shader 3.0 (i was expecting a frame here or there but there were some very significant improvements). A very interesting time for game developers!


----------



## Viper_86

Praetor said:
			
		

> About Pixel Shader 3.0, currently an "nVidia only" kinda deal, there IS an improvement and a NOTICEABLE one at that (i was argueing with my friend, an ATI fan until he showed me otherwise). To be honest if there is an improvement on graphical quality, it's wasted on me as both Pixel Shader 2.0 and 3.0 look fabulous. The difference however is that the 6800-series perform shockingly better when making use of Pixel Shader 3.0 (i was expecting a frame here or there but there were some very significant improvements). A very interesting time for game developers!


i agree...nvidia does have ati beat with the pixel shading hands down. in my opinion tho ati has nvidia beat overall. but i dont no how things r gonna turn out once nvidia releases its new card, the Nvidia sli, which is gonna b a kick ass card! ofcourse i dont expect ati to just stand by and watch, but if they let nvidia once again take the lead in visual performance and power, i just might go back to nvidia, that is till ati hits back ;-p   i dont think u really said wut card u prefer, just a lot of defending the nvidia 6800U, whicch is a great card...b even better if it didnt use so much freakin power.

or the does the ati even have pixel shading???


----------



## Praetor

> i dont think u really said wut card u prefer, just a lot of defending the nvidia 6800U, whicch is a great card...b even better if it didnt use so much freakin power


I'm an nVidia fan... not because of performance....not becuase of drivers .... not even because i like badass ultra loud fans ... but because I've bought 4 ATi cards in my life ... 3 of those times I open the box and that's not the card i paid for. I'm not going through that again period.

I'm not so much the type to bounce from company to company based on performance or nothing but when i "trust" a label or a brand, I'll stick with it until i get burned.

Edit:


> or the does the ati even have pixel shading???


The ATi cards support Pixel Shader 2.0 ... I was quite shocked myself to see that they didnt "step up" and offer Pixel Shader 3.0 considering that the generation old 9800s have Pixel Shader 2.0


----------



## Viper_86

Praetor said:
			
		

> I'm not so much the type to bounce from company to company based on performance or nothing but when i "trust" a label or a brand, I'll stick with it until i get burned.


i like to go with the card that performs the best, which l8ly has been ati...but i havent been following the hardware part of computers till about 5 or so years ago...which isnt all that long to some1 whoes been in2 that stuff their whole lives.and seeing that i havent bought any cards myself until the 9800 pro just recently,..well my dad was the one who actually bought it for hus computer but i was there...i havent had any problems with the product at all, and wut a great difference it made goin from the nvidia...somewhere around the 5200 or someting...i dont no many models that nvidia has other than the more recent ones...anyway...that was a pos card...it was like 3 or so yrs old. dont worry im not even thinkin about comparing the 9800 pro to any of the nvidias 5000 series. my computer that i recently own is a hunk of shit, stupid emachine. its specs r freakin stone age...not 3.1 or even dos era, but its a 450 mhz celeron with a 4.02 hd!!!! OUCH it came with 32 mb of ram till i bought a stick of 128 coz my games werent workin to well on it, and now none of my games would probably even recognize that its an actual computer    this is y im saving up for a new machine, our dell doesnt quite cut it gaming wise, not my dads puter...which is miuch better..only has better vid card and more ram. haha i have no idea how i even got started on talking about this...o well


----------



## Praetor

> dont worry im not even thinkin about comparing the 9800 pro to any of the nvidias 5000 series. my computer that I recently own is a hunk of shit, stupid emachine


The 5200 is a piece of junk. The 5500-5700 are good cards for their money. The 5800 was a marketing disaster even though it was a very advanced chip. The 59x0 chips will take that 9800Pro quite evenly.


----------



## Nephilim

Oh, Lordy do we have a benchmark war going or what? Benchmarks are a rough guide as to how a card will perform not concrete evidence.

Even if benchmarks really mattered, in every single one of the many reviews I've read on both top-o-the line cards from ATI and nVidia are running neck and neck in almost every benchmark. Neither card is a runaway winner, simple as that.

Has anyone here bought both cards and tested them side by side? If someone has, I'd recommend listening to them.


Does the nVidia look nice to you? Then buy it. Does the ATI appeal to you more? Then buy it. Both companies offer such close performance in each price bracket it's a moot point to argue that one is way better than the other.


As for the pixel shader 2.0/3.0 arguement I ask myself one question - Am I playing a shooter to stop and look at the trees to see if I can notice _that_ much of a difference in the leaves? Nope. I'm there to slaughter everything I can as fast as I can so leaves that look just a bit prettier aren't that big of a deal to me.


A little less benchmarksturbation and a little more real life would help those wondering what to get


----------



## Praetor

Bingo! Well said ... it would be quite something to see the 6800 compete pricewise with the X300 now wouldnt it?


----------



## Viper_86

this thread kinda died off...so u make any more decisions or change ur mind about anything???


----------



## Meraxus

Nope I am perfectly happy with my Computer  Thanks again for the help.


----------

