# Windows 8.1, Start Menu return



## User0one

http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/22/4251610/windows-8-1-start-button

MS has listened to users, and is bringing back Start Button, and adding "a boot to desktop option".


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## salvage-this

So Windows 8.1 is just a service pack right?


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## voyagerfan99

salvage-this said:


> So Windows 8.1 is just a service pack right?



No. Windows 8.1 (AKA Windows Blue) is the next version of Windows.


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## salvage-this

Thanks.  It seems like this is a lot faster release than I would have expected.


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## johnb35

Because just like Vista, MS realized they screwed up by bringing out an inferior OS.  So they hurried up and develeped windows 7.  Except this time they realized they made a bad mistake by not having the start button included with it.  They also realized that sales were bad due to not having the start button included.  

Frankly, I don't understand why they made a desktop version of this when its designed more toward touch screens and tablets.  There a lot of people in this world that can't adapt to the new way without driving you crazy.  I have a few clients that wouldn't be able to navigate windows 8 and would throw the pc out the window, literally.


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## spirit

voyagerfan99 said:


> No. Windows 8.1 (AKA Windows Blue) is the next version of Windows.



I don't think that's right. I think it's like what Salvage said, just a few updates for 8. Surely if it were a new OS altogether, it'd be called 'Windows 9'? I think of 8.1 as like a service pack for 8.

Leaked beta builds of 8.1/Blue don't have the start menu, but they were leaked before this was published I suppose.


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## clquestor

I think microsoft realized they had actually done a good job developing windows 8 and wanted  to launch asap.  I work in retail and microsoft partnered to offer all sorts of promotions for windows 8. It was at a time when retail pc sales were in decline due to the overwhelming popularity of tablets and smartphones (and users).  Windows 8 caught the people that will buy anything new, and the people who had something so old they were waiting for some outrageous promotion to finally upgrade.  Plus it caught the people that knew they needed a new pc, and windows 8 "looked cooler" and "more like a tablet or smartphone" than previous versions.


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## clquestor

johnb35 said:


> Because just like Vista, MS realized they screwed up by bringing out an inferior OS.  So they hurried up and develeped windows 7.  Except this time they realized they made a bad mistake by not having the start button included with it.  They also realized that sales were bad due to not having the start button included.
> 
> Frankly, I don't understand why they made a desktop version of this when its designed more toward touch screens and tablets.  There a lot of people in this world that can't adapt to the new way without driving you crazy.  I have a few clients that wouldn't be able to navigate windows 8 and would throw the pc out the window, literally.



I think you'll see every laptop with a touchscreen within a year.  It will probably be cheaper for manufacturing to have one process rather than 2.


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## salvage-this

spirit said:


> I don't think that's right. I think it's like what Salvage said, just a few updates for 8. Surely if it were a new OS altogether, it'd be called 'Windows 9'? I think of 8.1 as like a service pack for 8.
> 
> Leaked beta builds of 8.1/Blue don't have the start menu, but they were leaked before this was published I suppose.



I was hoping that it would be a service pack but looking into it more it looks like it will be a new version.  The good thing is that it looks like it will be sold at a lower price.


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## clquestor

salvage-this said:


> I was hoping that it would be a service pack but looking into it more it looks like it will be a new version.  The good thing is that it looks like it will be sold at a lower price.



How much lower can they go lol they offered 8 at $69US for quite a while.


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## spirit

salvage-this said:


> I was hoping that it would be a service pack but looking into it more it looks like it will be a new version.  The good thing is that it looks like it will be sold at a lower price.



That's an annoyance. That's also not what I was hearing a few weeks ago. 

There's meant to be a public beta out soon apparently http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/27/4152168/windows-blue-public-preview-build-developer-conference

I'm wondering whether to go back to 8 once AMD have got their drivers sorted out, or just to wait for 8.1 to be released...


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## salvage-this

I think it could be a good thing depending on how MS does it.  If they hold out on releasing updates till new versions come out then it will be a bad thing.  If they release new versions at lower prices more frequently (for the full OS not upgrade)  I can see there being less pirating and lower costs for system builders.

EDIT:  I didn't realize that you went back to 7.  I thought you really enjoyed using 8?


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## spirit

salvage-this said:


> I didn't realize that you went back to 7.  I thought you really enjoyed using 8?


Yeah I'm on 7 Ultimate at the moment. I did like 8, yeah, it was quite nice (better than Vista, certainly), but sadly AMD drivers and Photoshop weren't playing nice on 8 for me (or anyone, looking online).

The problem I was having with Photoshop was that the screen kept flickering (going black etc) due to the graphics drivers not having good enough support for GPU acceleration. If I disabled GPU acceleration in Photoshop, the problem went away, but it was so slow. I've been looking on AMD's site since about the middle of March for driver updates (not betas, mind you) and the latest driver (13.1) is the one I already have installed - and it was released in January.

I did read however that the 13.3 Beta drivers they've put up fix some OpenGL issues, so it may sort the problem, but I'm not one for beta driver software of any kind to be honest. 

Although reading that a beta of 8.1 is around the corner kind of suggests that 8.1 will be here soon(ish), so hopefully by the time 8.1 comes out, AMD will have sorted the problem. 8.1 looks to be an improvement over 8, and if we're not going to have to wait too long for it, it makes sense to stick with 7 until 8.1 comes out and probably forget about 8 (for me at least).

Being into photography and all that, I use Photoshop a lot, so it was a pest that it kept playing up with 8.


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## salvage-this

That makes sense.  It seems like there are a lot of driver problems with 8.  I had a free licence that I couldn't even give to the girlfriend because I spent a week trying to get it to stop crashing.  Eventually we just went out and bought 7 and it works perfectly now.


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## spirit

8's not had the best start I don't think. I had to update my motherboard BIOS before it would even recognise my 2TB hard drive. Not a biggie, but kind of annoying.

Though I do think a start button (even if it takes you to the tiles menu) and a 'boot to desktop' option is going to make 8.1 better than 8 for me at least. What I'd really like to see in 8.1 too is an easier way of shutting down. Since when was shutting down your computer a setting? That's one thing I really didn't like about 8.


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## strollin

Did you guys read the article?  The Start button is there but it just takes you to the Start screen.  Instead of moving the mouse to the corner to popup the icon for the Start screen you'll be able to click a button.  Big deal.

Now the boot to desktop option is one that I would look forward to.  Not sure I would pay for an upgrade to get it though.


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## spirit

strollin said:


> Did you guys read the article?  The Start button is there but it just takes you to the Start screen.  Instead of moving the mouse to the corner to popup the icon for the Start screen you'll be able to click a button.  Big deal.
> 
> Now the boot to desktop option is one that I would look forward to.  Not sure I would pay for an upgrade to get it though.



Yeah I did read it, hence why I said _'Though I do think a start button (even if it takes you to the tiles menu)'_

I think it's a step in the right direction. I don't have a problem with the tiles replacing the start menu really. It was just the lack of a start button itself which was a bit weird to me. Maybe they could make it easier to shut down your PC too - and it make easier to exit metro apps (the whole 'drag the window down' thing doesn't work great with a mouse.) That'd be nice.


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## salvage-this

spirit said:


> 8's not had the best start I don't think. I had to update my motherboard BIOS before it would even recognise my 2TB hard drive. Not a biggie, but kind of annoying.
> 
> Though I do think a start button (even if it takes you to the tiles menu) and a 'boot to desktop' option is going to make 8.1 better than 8 for me at least. What I'd really like to see in 8.1 too is an easier way of shutting down. Since when was shutting down your computer a setting? That's one thing I really didn't like about 8.



I used ALT F4 on the desktop or Windows Key + I to get to the settings menu.  That was quite a bit faster for me when I used 8

You could also make a shortcut to run the command shutdown t/0 I think that also works.  



strollin said:


> Did you guys read the article?  The Start button is there but it just takes you to the Start screen.  Instead of moving the mouse to the corner to popup the icon for the Start screen you'll be able to click a button.  Big deal.
> 
> Now the boot to desktop option is one that I would look forward to.  Not sure I would pay for an upgrade to get it though.



The start screen was not the problem for me. It was just that it was built with gestures in mind. So a mouse and keyboard seemed harder to use than if I had a tablet.  Having the start menu icon and booting strait to desktop will help bring it back to something that desktop users might more familiar with.


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## spirit

salvage-this said:


> I used ALT F4 on the desktop or Windows Key + I to get to the settings menu.  That was quite a bit faster for me when I used 8


Yeah, most ordinary people won't figure that out though. I honestly think what Microsoft had in mind was that if you wanted to turn off your PC, you did it literally, by pressing the power button.


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## Calin

I knew this all the time...
But I love Aero more than Start


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## AntimatterAsh

The start button doesnt do anything new though, it just shows the area to click to open the metro if I am right.

So if that is true, it would just be easier to put a post-it note with M$ logo on it, where the area to activate the metro screen is...right?


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## speedyink

spirit said:


> What I'd really like to see in 8.1 too is an easier way of shutting down. Since when was shutting down your computer a setting? That's one thing I really didn't like about 8.



I made this WAAAAY easier by putting this shortcut on my start screen.  It's on the lowest leftmost tile to simulate the same sort of mouse movement I got used to for shutting down my PC.


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## Calin

speedyink said:


>


Is that 8.1?


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## speedyink

CalinXP said:


> Is that 8.1?



No, windows 8.  I just made a shortcut to the "shutdown" procedure, then pinned it to my start screen.


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## AntimatterAsh

speedyink said:


> I made this WAAAAY easier by putting this shortcut on my start screen.  It's on the lowest leftmost tile to simulate the same sort of mouse movement I got used to for shutting down my PC.



As much as it is handy, I cant see the point in actually having to make that shortcut, or install Pokki, or any other modification (first or third party) just to make the PC easier to use. Microsoft should have fixed everything before releasing it. When I install an OS, I dont want to use tonnes of third party programs just to make it like what I am used to. Hence why I am staying with 7 until they get their ideas together again


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## spirit

speedyink said:


> I made this WAAAAY easier by putting this shortcut on my start screen.  It's on the lowest leftmost tile to simulate the same sort of mouse movement I got used to for shutting down my PC.


Yeah I know you can do that. I did. And I did it for my mum too to make things easier for her.

Would be nice if they did it for us though. The shut down method in 8 is daft to say the least. And like I said before, they need to make it more obvious how to close metro apps.


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## AntimatterAsh

spirit said:


> Yeah I know you can do that. I did. And I did it for my mum too to make things easier for her.
> 
> Would be nice if they did it for us though. The shut down method in 8 is daft to say the least. And like I said before, they make it more obvious how to close metro apps.



Hence why I detest Windows 8. People dont want to have to add shortcuts just to do simple things like shutting down or using the classic start menu. It is more trouble than what 2 seconds off startup time is worth.

Stay with 7. It is simpler, and more convenient. If you are five, and like the bright colours of metro, and do not care about how you access things on the computer, use 8.


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## spirit

I want to give 8.1 a shot when it comes out. Should be a bit better than 8 I think.


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## AntimatterAsh

It makes me laugh slightly how the BETAs for 8 were only deactivated in January and by April, there is a new update to the OS.

Craaash and Buuurrnnn...

@Spirit tell me how you get on, I will be interested to know if they have added anything back into 8.1 from 7 that they removed. I might give it a small shot in a VM if I think it is worth it. I definately wont use it as my main OS though.


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## spirit

AntimatterAsh said:


> @Spirit tell me how you get on, I will be interested to know if they have added anything back into 8.1 from 7 that they removed. I might give it a small shot in a VM if I think it is worth it. I definately wont use it as my main OS though.


Sure. Might even use the public beta as a primary OS, but I'd probably test it in a VM first just to be sure that it was stable.


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## AntimatterAsh

spirit said:


> Sure. Might even use the public beta as a primary OS, but I'd probably test it in a VM first just to be sure that it was stable.



Take it from experience. Don't use the BETAs as your main OS. Causes too many problems when it expires. With your PC spec, just run it in a VM or old PC you don't use.


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## spirit

AntimatterAsh said:


> Take it from experience. Don't use the BETAs as your main OS. Causes too many problems when it expires. With your PC spec, just run it in a VM or old PC you don't use.



I've run beta operating systems and software in the past. Might just run it in a VM though.


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## salvage-this

You could run it on a separate HDD.  That is how I usually do it.  I have a few spares that I use that I tore out of laptops that I couldn't fix.


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## spirit

salvage-this said:


> You could run it on a separate HDD.  That is how I usually do it.  I have a few spares that I use that I tore out of laptops that I couldn't fix.



Could do. Not got any SATA ones spare at the moment, and I've tried dual booting 7 and 8 in the past. It didn't go too well (8 is picky when you try and dual-boot it with 7). 

I think a VM may be the best option.


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## salvage-this

I install them without the other drive connected.  That way I don't mess with how the other boots.  It is a bit more hassle when you have to change the boot order to boot the different systems but it works really well if you want to test the OS with all of your current hardware.


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## speedyink

spirit said:


> Yeah I know you can do that. I did. And I did it for my mum too to make things easier for her.
> 
> Would be nice if they did it for us though. The shut down method in 8 is daft to say the least. And like I said before, they need to make it more obvious how to close metro apps.



Oh I see, yeah it would've been nice.  As with the booting straight into desktop function to begin with.  Otherwise, most of the important stuff you need it accessed by right clicking the bottom left hand corner (it's like the alternate start menu).  To close metro apps, right click the top left corner (weird, yes)



spirit said:


> Could do. Not got any SATA ones spare at the moment, and I've tried dual booting 7 and 8 in the past. It didn't go too well (8 is picky when you try and dual-boot it with 7).
> 
> I think a VM may be the best option.



Never had an issue here.  Even dual booting off the same hard drive in partitions.  In fact my windows 8 install from ages ago is still installed on here on a partition.  Should format that...


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## spirit

salvage-this said:


> I install them without the other drive connected.  That way I don't mess with how the other boots.  It is a bit more hassle when you have to change the boot order to boot the different systems but it works really well if you want to test the OS with all of your current hardware.



I'm pretty sure when I tried that it didn't work - it was a while ago now so I can't remember. I don't remember ever being able to get them to the point where you could select which OS to boot from. 

If I can find another SATA hard drive (may have one actually, only 80GB but that's big enough for the OS) it might just plug it in and install the beta on there when it's released.


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## speedyink

spirit said:


> I'm pretty sure when I tried that it didn't work - it was a while ago now so I can't remember. I don't remember ever being able to get them to the point where you could select which OS to boot from.
> 
> If I can find another SATA hard drive (may have one actually, only 80GB but that's big enough for the OS) it might just plug it in and install the beta on there when it's released.



Really?  Windows 8 even has a new OS Select menu that supports a mouse.  It only appears when you have windows 8 as default though, and if you choose windows 7 it has this small reboot it has to do, adding to startup time.


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## salvage-this

I'm not talking about having a boot menu with both operating systems.  I'm saying have each drive completely independent from the other.  You would have to switch in the BIOS what HDD you want to boot from.  That way if the beta is terrible you can just leave Windows 7 as the primary drive and format the other with no hassle.


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## StrangleHold

Its just another way for Microshaft to start getting money for Service Packs. Started after Vista with 7. Windows 7 should have been a free SP. Bet Microshaft will start releasing updates with added features and charging 20 bucks a pop.


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## claptonman

Service Pack 1 cost money at one point?

And call me crazy, I prefer metro...


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## spirit

speedyink said:


> Really?  Windows 8 even has a new OS Select menu that supports a mouse.  It only appears when you have windows 8 as default though, and if you choose windows 7 it has this small reboot it has to do, adding to startup time.


Could have fooled me, I never knew it had one because I could never get it to multi-boot with 7 correctly, and 8 was the default OS. I must have done something along the way but I've been experimenting with multi-boots for a while now (usually with XP and/or Vista and 7).



salvage-this said:


> I'm not talking about having a boot menu with both operating systems.  I'm saying have each drive completely independent from the other.  You would have to switch in the BIOS what HDD you want to boot from.  That way if the beta is terrible you can just leave Windows 7 as the primary drive and format the other with no hassle.


Yeah I knew what you were talking about. My Dad does that. I'll probably do it that way, or just stick to a virtual machine for convenience. 



StrangleHold said:


> Its just another way for Microshaft to start getting money for Service Packs. Started after Vista with 7. Windows 7 should have been a free SP. Bet Microshaft will start releasing updates with added features and charging 20 bucks a pop.


It would have been nice if it was a free update or service pack for 8, but this is Micro$oft we're talking about here. I guess this is almost comparable to the 98 and 98 SE situation? 



claptonman said:


> Service Pack 1 cost money at one point?


I don't believe a service pack has ever cost money. Strangle was just saying that Microsoft's decision to make 8.1 an entirely new OS rather than just an update or service pack for 8 meant it was a way of getting more money out of customers.


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## DMGrier

They will be offering yearly updates in between major releases. It is still up in the air if these major updates will cost, I am hearing that windows blue will not cost in a hope to push sales but once and if M$ can get back on the ball with the sales in the future updates are suppose to be similar in price to OS X updates releases.

Big deal about the start menu since there are fixes for that already, I am more excited about the Metro fixes to make it more usable. From what I have read to include more icon options when you right click on them which one of those option is to resize the icons. Plus the ability to run split screen which currently only lets you run a 75/25 split will able to do to a 50/50 split. I am mainly looking at this feature since I am in college now and I am taking a mix of ground and online classes which means I can have my text book open and do my assignments on one screen without doing constant switching.

Also on a side note when we look at service packs being free this is true but when you look at the amount of work going into this update if it will be called a service pack it looks like it has more gui changes then any service in the past few release so I would expect it to cost.


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## AntimatterAsh

DMGrier said:


> I am mainly looking at this feature since I am in college now and I am taking a mix of ground and online classes which means I can have my text book open and do my assignments on one screen without doing constant switching.



Hence why I still use 7. And if that is not good enough, just plug in a second screen into my 9300GT. Simples.

I am really considering looking into CrunchBang or DebianNet or something though. Really considering it. If I can learn how to fluently use it, I wont ever have to be pushed back like I am with 8. It is free and constantly being developed. Especially now things like Android are branching off of it (Android and the 2.0.8 Linux kernal if I remember correctly).


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## speedyink

StrangleHold said:


> Its just another way for Microshaft to start getting money for Service Packs. Started after Vista with 7. Windows 7 should have been a free SP. Bet Microshaft will start releasing updates with added features and charging 20 bucks a pop.



How about Microsoft just gives away all versions of Windows 
Seriously though, There was a huge jump between Windows XP to Vista, and from Vista to Win 7.  When has a service pack ever included such massive changes?  Hell, windows 98 was basically just a more animated windows 95, they should've called it Windows 95 SP1 and released it for free.  And windows XP should've been SP2, since it's just a Crayola funded version of windows 98.  Sounds like a GREAT business model!
Even with the new business model, whats the difference between paying 20 bucks a year to paying $130 or whatever every 3 years?



spirit said:


> Could have fooled me, I never knew it had one because I could never get it to multi-boot with 7 correctly, and 8 was the default OS. I must have done something along the way but I've been experimenting with multi-boots for a while now (usually with XP and/or Vista and 7).



Weird, I just installed as I did every other dual boot



AntimatterAsh said:


> Hence why I still use 7. And if that is not good enough, just plug in a second screen into my 9300GT. Simples.



And...why do you need Windows 7 to multitask regular windows software?  The only time it's not possible in Windows 8 is with the new Metro apps, which Win 7 doesn't have access to anyway.


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## DMGrier

AntimatterAsh said:


> Hence why I still use 7. And if that is not good enough, just plug in a second screen into my 9300GT. Simples.
> 
> I am really considering looking into CrunchBang or DebianNet or something though. Really considering it. If I can learn how to fluently use it, I wont ever have to be pushed back like I am with 8. It is free and constantly being developed. Especially now things like Android are branching off of it (Android and the 2.0.8 Linux kernal if I remember correctly).



So you use windows 7 for dual monitor support, so your saying windows 8 doesn't support dual monitors?

Linux is great and in many ways better and maybe after college I will go back to using s my PRIMARY desktop but I am writing crazy papers per week right now and with all the page requirements from my Professors LibreOffice just would not cut it.


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## AntimatterAsh

DMGrier said:


> So you use windows 7 for dual monitor support, so your saying windows 8 doesn't support dual monitors?
> 
> Linux is great and in many ways better and maybe after college I will go back to using s my PRIMARY desktop but I am writing crazy papers per week right now and with all the page requirements from my Professors LibreOffice just would not cut it.



It does. As far as I know, with dual screen, you couldn't run a metro app on both screens, which annoyed me.



speedyink said:


> And...why do you need Windows 7 to multitask regular windows software?  The only time it's not possible in Windows 8 is with the new Metro apps, which Win 7 doesn't have access to anyway.



I have no need for metro. It is just a waste of HDD space. I use 7 because then I don't have to spend hours removing things I don't want. Its just easier.


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## spirit

Barely takes any time at all to remove the metro apps. Right click them on the tiles screen, then select uninstall. Takes seconds at most.


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## AntimatterAsh

But because I have nothing to benefit from that, there is no point upgrading...that is the point.


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## speedyink

AntimatterAsh said:


> But because I have nothing to benefit from that, there is no point upgrading...that is the point.



...Then don't?  Don't know why we have to hear about it.  Forums would be much cleaner if people stopped posting in threads about things they're apparently not interested in.

I'm hooked on the metro music app...makes not having Pandora in Canada less painful


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## Okedokey

speedyink said:


> ...Then don't?  Don't know why we have to hear about it.  Forums would be much cleaner if people stopped posting in threads about things they're apparently not interested in.
> 
> I'm hooked on the metro music app...makes not having Pandora in Canada less painful



People are entitled to discuss anything they want mate (within the rules).


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## speedyink

Okedokey said:


> People are entitled to discuss anything they want mate (within the rules).



Fair enough.


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## claptonman

spirit said:


> I don't believe a service pack has ever cost money. Strangle was just saying that Microsoft's decision to make 8.1 an entirely new OS rather than just an update or service pack for 8 meant it was a way of getting more money out of customers.



I get what he means now. Windows Seven should have never existed, should have just made Vista SP3 and have the same features as 7.



Okedokey said:


> People are entitled to discuss anything they want mate (within the rules).



I see his point, though. It seems like they're complaining about something they don't have to get.


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## 2048Megabytes

StrangleHold said:


> Its just another way for Microshaft to start getting money for Service Packs. Started after Vista with 7. Windows 7 should have been a free SP. Bet Microshaft will start releasing updates with added features and charging 20 bucks a pop.



Ha!  Microsoft breaks their own products and then charges people to fix the issue.  Quite dishonest in my opinion providing inferior services and products.  I am staying with Windows 7 and my Linux Mint version 13.  

I support Vista and Windows 7 at my work so I have no reason to dabble with the putrid Windows 8 operating system.


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## Okedokey

2048Megabytes said:


> Ha!  Microsoft breaks their own products and then charges people to fix the issue.  Quite dishonest in my opinion providing inferior services and products.  ....



Watch you don't get a libel case against you mate.

Claiming MS breaks their OS knowingly to gain extra revenue for repairing it is essentially fraud and you need to show proof.


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## DMGrier

2048Megabytes said:


> Ha!  Microsoft breaks their own products and then charges people to fix the issue.  Quite dishonest in my opinion providing inferior services and products.  I am staying with Windows 7 and my Linux Mint version 13.
> 
> I support Vista and Windows 7 at my work so I have no reason to dabble with the putrid Windows 8 operating system.



There is a difference between breaking a product and releasing a fix example being more Vista with the release of SP1 and releasing Windows 8 which runs fine and releasing a update to add much needed features.


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## spirit

Looks like it is now official that the start button is returning and there will be an option to boot straight to the desktop. I see also there is now possibly going to be the option to have a custom image as your start screen background which is something MS should have included in the RTM Windows 8 http://mashable.com/2013/05/30/windows-8-1-features/ 

I wonder if the new changes will make people more inclined to upgrade from 7 to 8? I read elsewhere that 8.1 is going to be an update to 8 (like a service pack), so you won't have to buy the OS again hopefully.

Ironic how just as MS are reintroducing the old methods, I've just gotten used to the new methods. Bam!


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## 2048Megabytes

DMGrier said:


> There is a difference between breaking a product and releasing a fix example being more Vista with the release of SP1 and releasing Windows 8 which runs fine and releasing a update to add much needed features.



Do you use Windows Vista?  Even with Service Pack 2 it does not run well.  The Users I support with Vista complain many times about their system not running well.  Microsoft could fix it if they wanted to.  They have no desire.  Just spend another $100 and buy the Windows 7 or 8 operating system they say.


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## claptonman

I hope they keep the start screen. I actually like it...


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## voyagerfan99

2048Megabytes said:


> Do you use Windows Vista?  Even with Service Pack 2 it does not run well.  The Users I support with Vista complain many times about their system not running well.  Microsoft could fix it if they wanted to.  They have no desire.  Just spend another $100 and buy the Windows 7 or 8 operating system they say.



How is the rest of their system? With the two service packs and a decent system Vista runs perfectly fine.


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## Laquer Head

Windows 8 is terrific if your running Windows 7 Pro


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## DMGrier

Laquer Head said:


> Windows 8 is terrific if your running Windows 7 Pro



Im confused, how is running windows 8 great if your windows 7 pro? There two completely different operating systems in terms of design and hardware usage.


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## Laquer Head

DMGrier said:


> Im confused, how is running windows 8 great if your windows 7 pro? There two completely different operating systems in terms of design and hardware usage.



Exactly .. I was making a smart ass comment.. but anyhow.


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## voyagerfan99

I had a feeling it was sarcasm but wasn't quite sure. Normally when I make internet sarcasm I use a lot of periods after the statement or use the cool smiley


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## Laquer Head

sorry guys...........................................................


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## S.T.A.R.S.

User0one said:


> http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/22/4251610/windows-8-1-start-button
> 
> MS has listened to users, and is bringing back Start Button, and adding "a boot to desktop option".



OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......it was about damn bloody time!


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## dark_angel

i honestly never missed the start button. I have my desktop with windows 7 and I've never used the start menu on it. I have a few icons for main programs i use (firefox, lightroom and photoshop. Rest i just win+r and run. I do the same in 8 on my ultrabook.


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## wezzles

Anybody know and ETA for the update?


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## voyagerfan99

wezzles said:


> Anybody know and ETA for the update?



Microsoft is scheduled to release a public preview of Windows 8.1 for Windows 8, Windows RT and Windows Embedded 8.1 Industry on June 26 at the Build developer conference in San Francisco, Tom's Hardware reports. 

Aside from that, official release should be fall 2013.


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## 2048Megabytes

voyagerfan99 said:


> How is the rest of their system? With the two service packs and a decent system Vista runs perfectly fine.



I wish I could agree with you.  In my experience you need to shut off Vista A.E.R.O. to get the operating system to run decently.


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## spirit

2048Megabytes said:


> I wish I could agree with you.  In my experience you need to shut off Vista A.E.R.O. to get the operating system to run decently.



Turning it off can actually slow the system down because Aero enables hardware acceleration which improves system performance. Same goes for 7 too.


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## User0one

Video of Windows 8.1 preview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQb5caeSo00


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## S.T.A.R.S.

Windows 8 is nice and all ESPECIALLY for people without any computer knowledge,but to be honest I have a feeling that Windows 8 makes desktop PC as a sellphone PC even if it DOES have a fully functioning desktop almost the same as Windows 7.

So I will stick to my favorite...Windows XP.

But then again...Windows 8 would be great for my mom who barely opens facebook


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## spirit

I disagree. Been using 8 for a while now and I don't mind it at all. I don't think there is a reason *to* upgrade from 7 to 8, but if you're running on something older (XP or Vista) then yeah you may as well get 8. 

You can't stay on XP forever. I would never use it as a primary OS now.


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## 2048Megabytes

spirit said:


> Turning it off can actually slow the system down because Aero enables hardware acceleration which improves system performance. Same goes for 7 too.



How is laptop or desktop system performance going to be improved when you are using more video processing with A.E.R.O. in Vista or Windows 7?


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## larsch

spirit said:


> I read elsewhere that 8.1 is going to be an update to 8 (like a service pack), so you won't have to buy the OS again hopefully.



It will cost you nothing


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## S.T.A.R.S.

spirit said:


> I disagree. Been using 8 for a while now and I don't mind it at all. I don't think there is a reason *to* upgrade from 7 to 8, but if you're running on something older (XP or Vista) then yeah you may as well get 8.
> 
> You can't stay on XP forever. I would never use it as a primary OS now.



Wow I am the only one who uses Windows XP...COOL! 
To tell you the truth I don't really like having more than one operating system on a computer.I tryed all Windows and they all rule.And yes that also includes Windows 8.
But somehow Windows XP is the best to be.I mean...I don't play any Direct X 10 or Direct X 11 games and also not using any programs which are only compatible with Windows 7 and later......so...
I mainly use my computers for programming and testing applications I make so Windows XP is doing it's job great in that area and there is no reason for me to change it.And Windows XP also supports Visual Studio all the way to Visual Studio 2010 (too bad it doesn't support Visual Studio 2012) and that's great and more than enough considering that I am still using Visual Studio 2002 lol.

Sure Visual Studio 2002 and Windows XP is 10+ years old,but as long as I can make programs on it with no problems and earn money on it,I don't mind even if it's 20+ years old ^.^


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## spirit

2048Megabytes said:


> How is laptop or desktop system performance going to be improved when you are using more video processing with A.E.R.O. in Vista or Windows 7?



Like I said, by having Aero on, you are enabling hardware acceleration. 

So long as you have a decent graphics card, Aero doesn't slow you down anyway. Even the most basic onboard graphics can handle Aero now.


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## StrangleHold

Yeah, Aero just got a bad rap when it was on those lowend desktops and laps when Vista came out.


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## Okedokey

spirit said:


> Like I said, by having Aero on, you are enabling hardware acceleration.
> 
> So long as you have a decent graphics card, Aero doesn't slow you down anyway. Even the most basic onboard graphics can handle Aero now.



Additionally Aero automatically disables whenever alternative GPU power is needed (e.g. gaming, full screen video etc).

The point is that it also never contributed to any gaming slowdowns.


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## spirit

StrangleHold said:


> Yeah, Aero just got a bad rap when it was on those lowend desktops and laps when Vista came out.



Yeah it did though that being said I've got a friend who has a Dell Inspiron 530 which was released when Vista was still pretty new (Core 2 Duo, 2GB of RAM, integrated graphics) and it ran the Vista Aero UI perfectly well. It's running Windows 7 now (I upgraded it for him a couple of months ago) and that's running well too.


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## turbodiesel

johnb35 said:


> Because just like Vista, MS realized they screwed up by bringing out an inferior OS.  So they hurried up and develeped windows 7.  Except this time they realized they made a bad mistake by not having the start button included with it.  They also realized that sales were bad due to not having the start button included.
> 
> Frankly, I don't understand why they made a desktop version of this when its designed more toward touch screens and tablets.  There a lot of people in this world that can't adapt to the new way without driving you crazy.  I have a few clients that wouldn't be able to navigate windows 8 and would throw the pc out the window, literally.



i agree it is a good concept an nice looking for a tablet i suppose but i dont need big buttons to navigate to apps/programs its just a big system intergration for simalarities between the xbox OS\windows phone\ windows 8
i may use the feature if i ever get a tablet or a all in one pc but for now i am just glad microsoft listened to its customers with the demmand of the readdition of the start menu


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## turbodiesel

spirit said:


> Yeah it did though that being said I've got a friend who has a Dell Inspiron 530 which was released when Vista was still pretty new (Core 2 Duo, 2GB of RAM, integrated graphics) and it ran the Vista Aero UI perfectly well. It's running Windows 7 now (I upgraded it for him a couple of months ago) and that's running well too.



i am typing this from my dell latitude d530 with 2gb of ram intel cetrino 2 2ghz and it runs areo theme fine but i disable it for games


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