# Mother Board FSB???



## pc_fanatic

Okay I'm a little confused about CPU and Mobo bus speeds. I'm gonna build a new rig and the mobo (ASUS M4A88T-M/USB3) has a HT bus speed of 2600mhz which apparently is double data rate and so effectively becomes 5200mhz. The cpu I want (athlon ii x4 645) has a HT of 4000mhz (8000mhz). Does this mean my mobo will limit my cpu? I keep hearing about quad pumping which apparently quadruples the bus speed of the mobo if the cpu chips support it, I'm not sure though. If any1 can clear up the confusion that would be great, thx.


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## jonnyp11

they will or should work fine, but i'd get an am3++++++, that way you can upgrade to bulldozer later on, otherwise go for an intel i3 or i5, they will outperform an amd in every single way no matter what.


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## pc_fanatic

Are intel cpus worth the extra money even though cpus aren't the most important part of a rig in terms of gaming? As long as I have good gpu the more affordable AMD's should be okay right? Also is paying more for mobos with higher bus speeds worth it for gaming?


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## StrangleHold

pc_fanatic said:


> Okay I'm a little confused about CPU and Mobo bus speeds. I'm gonna build a new rig and the mobo (ASUS M4A88T-M/USB3) has a HT bus speed of 2600mhz which apparently is double data rate and so effectively becomes 5200mhz. The cpu I want (athlon ii x4 645) has a HT of 4000mhz (8000mhz). Does this mean my mobo will limit my cpu? I keep hearing about quad pumping which apparently quadruples the bus speed of the mobo if the cpu chips support it, I'm not sure though. If any1 can clear up the confusion that would be great, thx.


 
AMD doesnt use a FSB bus anymore. There is a system bus that the Northbridge runs on, which is 200mhz. The CPU runs off the HyperTransport bus, which can run up to 2600/5200mhz. But AMD CPUs just run at 2000/4000mhz. So the HyperTransport has some overhead.


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## jonnyp11

an intel cpu will kill any amd cpu within 20 bucks if not more, currently intel OWNSSSS the market, go to anand tech and pick and i series processor v a equivilently priced amd, then compare and see, and for more of a diff, pick any i series followed by 4 numbers, they are the newer ones that are even faster, and even though the cpu isn't the MOSt important, it's more important than you think since it's also running the gpu drivers and the game and os and more at the same time so it needs to be up to par, and sacrificing there can and will screw you over, same with mobo's, cheaper will screw you over.


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## jonnyp11

give us your budget or what you want and we'll tell you what to do


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## pc_fanatic

jonnyp11 said:


> give us your budget or what you want and we'll tell you what to do


well I have almost $1800 saved up because I NEVER buy anything. Its about time I treat myself to a gaming pc. I'll spend as much as it takes for me to get the specs I want but leave at least 850 or so bucks (extra savings can come in handy). I found that I can make my dream pc for 700 or less. I want a GFX card that is excellent at AA to compensate for the fact that my monitors resolution only goes up to 1280 x 768. I want High (60 minimum) fps without lag on modern games. I also enjoy multitasking. I was considering the following cpu's: athlon ii x4 645 ($112), i3-2100 SB ($133), pentium g850 SB ($106). On one hand I don't want to pay for more than what I need. One the other it makes sense to future proof my pc for an extra 21 bux. I'm starting to reconsider amd after you post.


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## pc_fanatic

*Build I considered*

The following assembled and tested from computerlx.com a reputable site with excellent pricing.

AMD Athlon II 64 X4 645 Quad-Core 3.1GHz Processor AM3

AMD STANDARD COOLING FAN

Asus M4A78LT-M Socket AM3/ AMD 760G/ A&V&GbE/ MATX Motherboard

SEAGATE / WD 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB CACHE SATA 6.0Gb/s

24X DUAL LAYER DVD-RW W/LIGHTSCRIBE

(ONBOARD) NVIDIA/ATI 256MB PCI-EXPRESS VIDEO

REALTEK 8-CHANNEL DIGITAL SOUND ONBOARD

REALTEK 10/100/1000 Gigabit Network Card (onboard)

Rosewill Blackbone Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case (2x 120mm fans included) 

THERMALTAKE 500 WATT HIGH PERFORMANCE SLI/CROSSFIRE POWER SUPPLY

All for $419

And from tigerdirect:

Geforce GTX 460 1GB 

8GB DDR3 1333mhz dual channeled 

Both for $195

Grand total: $615

What do you think?

If I go with intel instead (i3-2100 + asus p8h67-m le rev 3.0) the total is $673


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## CrayonMuncher

I will update with other parts when I find them but i would suggest if you are looking to go with amd go with the 900 series chipset and the AM3+ socket the same CPU will work but this way you will have a much more future proof system. This board is full atx and also has UEFI.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131767

$99.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&cm_re=ddr3_8GB_ripjaw-_-20-231-314-_-Product

8GB ripjaws 1600Mhz $69.99.

Gtx 460 139.99 after rebate. a little bit more when combine but I dont know what specific ram and gpu you have. These are from reliable companies and this GTX460 Has the 256bit bus

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130570

And you'll need a better PSU afaik the thermaltakes are bareable but not that good. The gtx 460 advises at least 450watt and you want some headroom. I forget what amps it needs on the 12v but this will be sufficent, may even want a more powerful one depending on where you want to go with the machine in the future.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371020


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## jonnyp11

that's about what i'd say, also you'll have to get a case which you can get a nice one with shipping and all for about 50-55, a hdd, i'd say a seagate barracuda or a western digital caviar blue between 500gb and 1tb, they aren't too much and will give you the performance you want, other brands and models will be too much or unreliable, and don't forget you os disk which HAS to be an oem win 7 disk, upgrade disks don't work on a blank hdd


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## pc_fanatic

*Updated Build*

Intel Core i3 Processor i3-2100 3.1GHz 3MB DUAL CORE

INTEL STANDARD PROCESSOR COOLING FAN

Asus P8H67-M LE B3 REV 3.0 LGA1155/ Intel H67/ DDR3/ SATA3&USB3.0/ A&GbE/ MATX Motherboard

Geforce GTX 460 1GB

8GB Patriot DDR3 1333mhz dual channeled

SEAGATE / WD 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB CACHE SATA 6.0Gb/s

24X DUAL LAYER DVD-RW W/LIGHTSCRIBE

INTEL HD 2000/3000 1GB HDMI/DVI/VGA 1080p PCI-EXPRESS VIDEO (ONBOARD)

REALTEK 8-CHANNEL DIGITAL SOUND ONBOARD

REALTEK 10/100/1000 Gigabit Network Card (onboard)

Rosewill Blackbone Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case (2x 120mm quiet fans included)

ANTEC 650W HIGH PERFORMANCE SLI/CROSSFIRE POWER SUPPLY

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Okay now I'm thinking that I'll go with this instead. Better PSU (higher W and better brand) also the 1115 socket should have better upgrade path then AM3 right? What do you guys think about the case and cooling?
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Thanks for all the replies so far


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## jonnyp11

noooo, lga1155 will not ever get a new processor, although you can get an i5 or i7 later on, not any new ones, only the 2000's, but the am3+ will get you the 8 core bulldozer, but no garentee it will even match the i7 2600k at all, but currently the supposed engeniering sample that was oc'd and benched v an i7 990x which is about as good as the i7 2600k, just 2 more cores but not as good power really, and the bulldozer keeps up with it decent and that's the engeniering sample remember, but we don't know if it's real or an elaborate hoax.


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## pc_fanatic

jonnyp11 said:


> noooo, lga1155 will not ever get a new processor, although you can get an i5 or i7 later on, not any new ones, only the 2000's, but the am3+ will get you the 8 core bulldozer, but no garentee it will even match the i7 2600k at all, but currently the supposed engeniering sample that was oc'd and benched v an i7 990x which is about as good as the i7 2600k, just 2 more cores but not as good power really, and the bulldozer keeps up with it decent and that's the engeniering sample remember, but we don't know if it's real or an elaborate hoax.



I don't care if my cpus is the latest as long as it gets the job done. I like the fact that SB's will be lowered in price as new models like Ivy Bridges get released. Like you said I can go all the way up to i7, Plenty of head room.


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## jonnyp11

i guess, but right now new bulldozer info is looking promissing, since it is very similar in essence to sandy bridges hypertheading if you think about it, sb is like 1.3 or so cores, bulldozer is more like a quad with 1.5 cores, so it might be a winner.


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## pc_fanatic

jonnyp11 said:


> i guess, but right now new bulldozer info is looking promissing, since it is very similar in essence to sandy bridges hypertheading if you think about it, sb is like 1.3 or so cores, bulldozer is more like a quad with 1.5 cores, so it might be a winner.



I might go phenom quad instead of SB. AMD is superior in terms of bang for buck. People keep telling me i should am3+ instead of am3, is that a lot better for uprgrade path?


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## CrayonMuncher

Yes it is as AMD, the legends they are, have made AM3+ Backwards compatible so you can drop the cpu you've chosen above into it and be able to have newer tech and then if you want upgrade to a more powerful component, making it less likely in a few years time you will need to upgrade many things because you find something you cant do.

And i would go with 1600Mhz ram as it pretty much costs the same as 1333Mhz.

I have noticed you keep going for matx boards is there any reason for this? you seem to be buying a mid tower case, this will fit an ATX board which will have more slots, maybe dual pci ex slots if you wanted and is lessfiddly when adding stuff and trying to ensure a good airflow.


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## jonnyp11

although amd has been in the back in performance latly, if you take their already lower prices and put the compatibility part in ther, amd truly does make it worth while, and bd is looking great right now. and btw the full atx boards will be better than micro so like he said.


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## pc_fanatic

innercx said:


> Yes it is as AMD, the legends they are, have made AM3+ Backwards compatible so you can drop the cpu you've chosen above into it and be able to have newer tech and then if you want upgrade to a more powerful component, making it less likely in a few years time you will need to upgrade many things because you find something you cant do.
> 
> And i would go with 1600Mhz ram as it pretty much costs the same as 1333Mhz.
> 
> I have noticed you keep going for matx boards is there any reason for this? you seem to be buying a mid tower case, this will fit an ATX board which will have more slots, maybe dual pci ex slots if you wanted and is lessfiddly when adding stuff and trying to ensure a good airflow.



Yeah the site I'm ordering from (www.computerlx.com) has their cheapest ATX board priced at 151. I'm strongly considering intel's SB right now because they destroy AMD in terms of gaming at the same price range. But AMD is better for video editing and what not. Honestly AMD is for budget builds or non gaming intensive.


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## CrayonMuncher

Why wouldnt you order from newegg?

www.newegg.com

Prices are excellent. Looks better than that website.


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## jonnyp11

truly if you tak into consideration that past 32 fps it looks the same, and above 100 there is no need at all, then amd v intel doesn't matter, at and above 200 bucks for the processor it will all look the same, and with the amd you have upgradeability and multitasking, and for the encoding and that stuff you said idk if that's right, i'd check anandtech's benches section.


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## zer0_c00l

*your build*

 i would really have someone put together a nice build in your budget on here..these guys know their stuff..


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## pc_fanatic

Dammit now I don't know which CPU to go with lol.


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## pc_fanatic

CrayonMuncher said:


> Why wouldnt you order from newegg?
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> Prices are excellent. Looks better than that website.



Because I don't want to assemble everything. This site will give me a prebuilt, I'm ordering gpu and ram from tigerdirect (like newegg).


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## pc_fanatic

jonnyp11 said:


> truly if you tak into consideration that past 32 fps it looks the same, and above 100 there is no need at all, then amd v intel doesn't matter, at and above 200 bucks for the processor it will all look the same, and with the amd you have upgradeability and multitasking, and for the encoding and that stuff you said idk if that's right, i'd check anandtech's benches section.



I believe the number is 60 FPS not 32. 32 FPS is slow shit for many forms of games maybe not as much for RTS or Shooters though.


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## jonnyp11

look it up, science has proven that 32fps is the ability of the human eyeball, above that is to make sure fps dips from things like smoke and explosions aren't getting in the way, but they won't take it down enough to matter, you'll notice it for half a sec then back to normal.


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## pc_fanatic

jonnyp11 said:


> look it up, science has proven that 32fps is the ability of the human eyeball, above that is to make sure fps dips from things like smoke and explosions aren't getting in the way, but they won't take it down enough to matter, you'll notice it for half a sec then back to normal.



http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com


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## jonnyp11

plusibo, i know it's spelt wrong but sound it out, i bet if i put 30 over the 60 and 60 over the 30 then you'd still say 60 is more realistic, and 2fps will do that too


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## pc_fanatic

jonnyp11 said:


> plusibo, i know it's spelt wrong but sound it out, i bet if i put 30 over the 60 and 60 over the 30 then you'd still say 60 is more realistic, and 2fps will do that too



I doubt that. I've played games like super smash brothers melee at both 35 ish fps and 65 ish. 35 was unbearable, slow and choppy. 65 was smooth and really enjoyable game play. Maybe it just doesn't make difference to you? My eyesight is really good (20/20) so maybe I can just detect these things better. Well all this aside I need a card that is good at AA and can play modern games on max settings. It should also be reasonably future proof. I don't want to spend more on a better card now when the prices will drop by the time I need to replace it anyway. GPU's are cake to install so that gives more reason to go mid-high range instead of top range.


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## pc_fanatic

I've made up my mind and I'm going with intel. I just can't go with AMD knowing that I'm paying the same but getting less performance. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.


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## jonnyp11

actually a doctor recently told me she wished she had my eyes, i read i think the whole poster with the random letters on it with both eyes, as in one closed, then the other closed, might be that my comp sucks so much i can't experience the 60fps on high enough settings for it to be noticeable or relivant since it's pulling between 20 and 30 max.


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## Perkomate

the Intel I3 2100 is really all you need for basic productivity. It's a dual core with hyper threading, so it'll handle pretty much everything for a while. They're super reliable as well.


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## pc_fanatic

Perkomate said:


> the Intel I3 2100 is really all you need for basic productivity. It's a dual core with hyper threading, so it'll handle pretty much everything for a while. They're super reliable as well.



Thats what i thought initially but people keep telling me to go with i5-2300. I don't want to buy the i5 now if the prices will drop later though. I've heard that intel's prices are pretty stubborn not sure if thats true.


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## Perkomate

what will you be using the computer for?


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## ktec

jonnyp11 said:


> actually a doctor recently told me she wished she had my eyes, i read i think the whole poster with the random letters on it with both eyes, as in one closed, then the other closed, might be that my comp sucks so much i can't experience the 60fps on high enough settings for it to be noticeable or relivant since it's pulling between 20 and 30 max.



Can we vote to ban this tool already?


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## Perkomate

lol agreed


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## jonnyp11

ktec, stop being an ass, go **** yourself like you always do since your the only person that will.

and that was replying to a post where pc said i might just have bad eyesight so i couldn't tell, i have good eyesight and that was a spot where i was told i did by a doctor, so adaian, **** off ass hole, you wanna do something about it then come to my house and i'll kick your ass, i'm not gunna let some ass hole on the internet trash talk me when i'd lay money down that i can **** you up worse than you've ever experienced b4.


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## pc_fanatic

jonnyp11 said:


> ktec, stop being an ass, go **** yourself like you always do since your the only person that will.
> 
> and that was replying to a post where pc said i might just have bad eyesight so i couldn't tell, i have good eyesight and that was a spot where i was told i did by a doctor, so adaian, **** off ass hole, you wanna do something about it then come to my house and i'll kick your ass, i'm not gunna let some ass hole on the internet trash talk me when i'd lay money down that i can **** you up worse than you've ever experienced b4.



ROTFL! Every1 Chill on focus on the important topic: my rig.


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## pc_fanatic

Perkomate said:


> what will you be using the computer for?



Gaming, gaming and more gaming. I have ADHD so I always open up a bunch of apps at the same time and keep switching between them. Therefore I need a decent multitasking rig. These apps are NOT cpu or ram intensive though.


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## pc_fanatic

Okay i got some more questions now:

1) Can i really save a lot of money by OCing an AMD rather than buying an intel? 

2) Is it even worth saving money by going AMD considering that they run hotter and louder especially when OCed.

3) Is a GTX 460 overkill for 1280 x 768 resolution considering that I will be using full AA, AF, and max settings on demanding games?


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## jonnyp11

1) you can still oc the intell and it will still beat the amd.

2) not so much

3) idk, but it should be able to run anything maxed out on that res


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## pc_fanatic

What do you guys think of an AMD phenom 955 overclocked (after market cooling) on a AM3+ 970 chipset mobo. And for graphics a GTX 460 1GB. I want to play modern games on max settings. Its probably insufficient for 1080p (1920 x 1080), I'm pretty sure I'll have to get a lesser monitor or better GPU.


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## StrangleHold

The Gigabyte GA 970A UD3 is probably the best 970 board out right now. The 460 is a ok card, but I would rather have a 6870, but they are about 20 bucks more.


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## pc_fanatic

StrangleHold said:


> The Gigabyte GA 970A UD3 is probably the best 970 board out right now. The 460 is a ok card, but I would rather have a 6870, but they are about 20 bucks more.



Actually I think I might have to either downgrade the card or upgrade mymonitor since mine only goes up to 1280 x 1024. From what I've read, the GTX 460 is overkill for that resolution.


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## Perkomate

the 460 is starting to be out of date, to be honest if you're going to build a gaming computer make sure it will last for a few years. The 460 is an oven, so I chose the Radeon 5770 over that. My monitor is the same as yours.

But, in case you do get a new monitor, then go for the 6870. It'll be worth it when you don't have to upgrade for a while.


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## pc_fanatic

Perkomate said:


> the 460 is starting to be out of date, to be honest if you're going to build a gaming computer make sure it will last for a few years. The 460 is an oven, so I chose the Radeon 5770 over that. My monitor is the same as yours.
> 
> But, in case you do get a new monitor, then go for the 6870. It'll be worth it when you don't have to upgrade for a while.



Thats exactly what I was looking at on tigerdiect. Its only like 25 bucks more. Your right that the 460 is getting old, at least at that 1080p.


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## Perkomate

The problem is that if you do happen to get a new monitor, it'll probably be around 21.5 to 23 inches, and the graphics card will have to work even harder to produce the effects. That could mean that if you get the 460, you MAY have frame rate issues. But, don't quote me on this, because i'm not 100% sure on it.


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## pc_fanatic

Perkomate said:


> The problem is that if you do happen to get a new monitor, it'll probably be around 21.5 to 23 inches, and the graphics card will have to work even harder to produce the effects. That could mean that if you get the 460, you MAY have frame rate issues. But, don't quote me on this, because i'm not 100% sure on it.



Screen size has absolutely nothing to do with performance, resolution does. The 6780 is beast and can handle modern games at 1080p with high or max settings. If the video card is struggling I can always reduce settings or resolution for that game.


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## Perkomate

yeah, that's what i meant. I had a brain fart. Bigger screens have bigger resolutions. My bad.


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## pc_fanatic

jonnyp11 said:


> 1) you can still oc the intell and it will still beat the amd.
> 
> 2) not so much
> 
> 3) idk, but it should be able to run anything maxed out on that res



Yeah thats what I was thinking.


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## pc_fanatic

*Solved*

I got the i5-2500 with an intel h67 mobo both for around 200 bucks (cousin works at intel). With this I'll be able to keep up with latest games for much longer than with AMD.


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## pc_fanatic

*Solved*

I got the i5-2500 with an intel h67 mobo both for around 200 bucks (cousin works at intel   ). With this I'll be able to keep up with latest games for much longer than with AMD.


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## Perkomate

very nice. when does the rest arrive? and, what CPU cooler are you going to use?


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## pc_fanatic

*Newegg Order*

Actually I was still checking out what I could get so I didn't order anything else yet but I'm I'll get the following off of newegg:

Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner 24X W/Lightscribe & Win 7 support

Acer P215HBbd Black 21.5" 5ms Full HD WideScreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 

SAPPHIRE 100314-2SR Radeon HD 6870

Antec BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)

Xigmatek Utgard Mesh CPC-T90DB-U03 Black Steel / Aluminum and Mesh Bezel Computer Case

Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"

$564 after rebates. I was gonna go with stock intel cooler for cpu because I won't overclock and intel cpus run cool and efficient anyways.


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## jonnyp11

or could get 8gb's of ripjaws x series or regular 1600mhz and both are 65, and i like that case but  could also get the nzxt guardian, nzxt crafted series vulcan, or antec three hundred illusion, just some other nice ones for same or less, but urs is nice too


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## pc_fanatic

jonnyp11 said:


> or could get 8gb's of ripjaws x series or regular 1600mhz and both are 65, and i like that case but  could also get the nzxt guardian, nzxt crafted series vulcan, or antec three hundred illusion, just some other nice ones for same or less, but urs is nice too



Yeah this case really attracted me. Together with the HDD, it was a combo deal so thats why I chose it. As for the RAM 8 gigs would be overkill right now and my mobo only supports 1333mhz, so I dont want to pay for 1600mhz when its gonna get down clocked. What concerns me is that the HDD has some bad reviews though they are mostly good. I know seagate is a awesome brand but I guess the negative experiences people had was on newegg's part (damage during shipping, DOA, etc). All the other parts are high quality and good reviews.


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## jonnyp11

if you wanna get a dif and not get a deal then there's a caviar blue for same price, click it and see what deals its got.


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## Perkomate

don't even bother with the Newegg reviews. Build looks really good though, go for it.


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## jonnyp11

yeah, there's always a few duds and people who don't care about getting the free replacement, only that the first one failed even f the second was the best thing they've ever had


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## pc_fanatic

Perkomate said:


> don't even bother with the Newegg reviews. Build looks really good though, go for it.



Yeah I guess I could always RMA.


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## pc_fanatic

jonnyp11 said:


> if you wanna get a dif and not get a deal then there's a caviar blue for same price, click it and see what deals its got.



This hard drive plus the case was combo discount deal.


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## pc_fanatic

Actually I think I'll go with Rosewill 600W ATX 12V v2.01 (same price) over the antec 550W, unless you guys think I shouldn't.


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## Perkomate

the rosewill (roadkill) brnad have a habit of blowing up and taking lots of other parts with it. Antec is a better brand. Even though it has less watts, it'll probably output the same constant wattage.


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## StrangleHold

^^^ get the Antec.


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## mihir

StrangleHold said:


> ^^^ get the Antec.



+1

Antec is way better than Rosewill and do not skimp on the PSU.
And 550W will be more than enough for your purpose.


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## pc_fanatic

After doing some research It seems that you guys are right. Rosewill isn't nearly as Antec, which seems to be the highest quality PSU provider.


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## jonnyp11

them and corsair are the best i guess, there are others that are pefectly fine though


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## pc_fanatic

Antec Earthwatts 650

G.SKILL Ripjaws 8GB (2 sticks) DDR3 1333

Rosewill Challenger Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower

XFX Radeon HD 6870 

Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 7200rpm 3.0gb/s

HP 24X Multi DVD writer

HP 23", 3ms, 300cd/m2, widescreen w/speakers 

For $596 (3-day ship + rush proc.)

Together with my i5-2500 and intel mobo its $796

Now the anxious wait begins...


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## Perkomate

nicee... you've got it so lucky being in America, everything is so much cheaper.
good luck though


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## jonnyp11

i think rich people made the resetion to save a couple bucks


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## pc_fanatic

Perkomate said:


> nicee... you've got it so lucky being in America, everything is so much cheaper.
> good luck though



Thanks. Yeah I know things are much cheaper here, I think its due to wealthy manufacturers buying wholesale.


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## pc_fanatic

Does any1 know a good place to sell a stick of RAM? I've got a one gig stick at 533 that I ordered by mistake...


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## jonnyp11

fry's and micro center or a local shop is all i can say other than newegg/tigerdirect.


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## pc_fanatic

jonnyp11 said:


> fry's and micro center or a local shop is all i can say other than newegg/tigerdirect.



Thanks again johnny. I prefer online sites but I'll give those a try if all else fails.


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## jonnyp11

online is better, idk y but i though you were asking for shops for some reason.


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