# GPU hotter after applying new thermal paste.



## EthanJM

So my gpu has started running hotter than before in the last couple of months, dusting only helped a negligible amount since it was never that dirty to begin with. It is an EVGA gtx 660, I went ahead and applied ceramique 2, right away the first time I tested it I noticed it was hotter than before under load, idle temps were just as good though (32-35c). Running GTA 5 it hit 99c and I turned it off, when stress testing with furmark the temps jump up to 60c almost immediately and continue to increase from there after. I tried applying the paste in four different ways, and always made sure the surfaces were very clean (used rubbing alcohol). First way I applied it I used a pea sized dot (seemed to be too much and spilled over a little), second time was a very small amount spread thin and evenly (this was by far the worst of the four), third time was a medium dot, and the current way is a small dot. The second way where I spread it thin and evenly I tested with furmark and the temps hit 90c in seconds, that was startling, the other three ways seemed to have yielded the same results, but it is running about 10c hotter on average under load compared to what it was before I applied the paste myself. I know the paste might have a set time, and that might help by a few degrees, but it isn't going to make up for the 10c, and definitely not going to go back to stock temps. So my question is, has anyone else experienced this? And what paste should I be using? I have never put new paste on a gpu, ceramique 2 was all I had, apparently it doesn't work well on a gpu.
I'd like to add I reformatted two days ago, clean install windows 10. My tower does have a side fan but it is outdated (from 2007), but this still isn't right, I've had the gpu for two years and these high temps seem to be a more recent thing. Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance.


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## tylerjrb

I use Gelid Extreme on mine. Minimal amount you can get to spread over the GPU die itself. I always put a thin line down the middle about 4-5mm from each end that was the best way for me anyway. Dropped couple degrees from previous method and paste.

With regards to the spread method it needs to be almost translucent if you spread it yourself.

All fans running etc? if they are remove the cooler and look at the spread of the paste it should be covering all the GPU die surface. Try the method I said and also put the thermal paste tube in some hot water if its quite thick stuff to help it spread.


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## EthanJM

tylerjrb said:


> I use Gelid Extreme on mine. Minimal amount you can get to spread over the GPU die itself. I always put a thin line down the middle about 4-5mm from each end that was the best way for me anyway. Dropped couple degrees from previous method and paste.
> 
> With regards to the spread method it needs to be almost translucent if you spread it yourself.
> 
> All fans running etc? if they are remove the cooler and look at the spread of the paste it should be covering all the GPU die surface. Try the method I said and also put the thermal paste tube in some hot water if its quite thick stuff to help it spread.



When I used the spread method it was very thin, like you said almost translucent, and I spread it even too. For some reason it worked very poorly. All fans are working fine. Do you think it could just be incompatible paste or what? It worked great for my cpu.

Oh, and is it strange that it idles so cool but heats up under load?


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## Shlouski

There is the possibility that cooler isn't seating properly and as suggested by tylerjrb, you should be able see if the paste had spread properly once the heatsink is removed. A heatsink should be installed in much the same way that wheels on a car are, by turning the screws just to the point of contact between the surfaces and then making one turn on a screw and then making one turn on the screw opposite to it, then doing the same to the other two screws and repeat until sufficiently tight. This ensures a good straight contact between the surfaces, but if you find that a screw seems much tighter or looser than the others, then the heatsink may not be going on straight. Most of the popular methods of applying paste work fine, personally I prefer to spread the paste myself to make sure all the contact area has been covered and to cut down on the amount of paste used. The amount of paste to use depends on, different die sizes, different pressure fittings, different compounds and different operating temperatures, so its hard to eye just how much to use and I've seen many pro's getting loads of overflow. My favorite is the cling film method, wrap one layer of cling film tightly over the index finger avoiding creases, put a little paste on the die and smooth it over with the finger applying more paste until the die is completely covered by a thin coat.
I have tried many different compounds from very expensive to very cheap and not seen much if any difference in temperatures. I did a little experiment a while back on my gtx 680, I wanted to see the performance difference of many different thermal compounds, I tried about 7 or 8 in total and there was about a 1 - 2 degree difference between them all. A couple of compounds I tried came in toothpaste sized tubes and were still cheaper than a tiny 3.5mg tube of arctic silver. Keep in mind I couldn't test the differences once set, it would have taken way too long and I also can't come to any sort of conclusion about the life span of these compounds.


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## EthanJM

Hmm, what if I make a quick video of me redoing the whole process, then showing the results afterwards. I swear I have done it all right, I seated it like you said and everything. I'll go ahead and do that, video shouldn't be too long.


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## EthanJM

Okay, some interesting things happened. I'm going to edit the videos together and post a link here when they are uploaded to youtube. To make a long story short it crashed unexpectedly on camera, so you get to see exactly how it happened. In event viewer I am getting a critical error called "kernel-power".  I will get this done as quickly as I am able.


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## johnb35

What make and model of power supply do you have?  How old is it?


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## EthanJM

D


johnb35 said:


> What make and model of power supply do you have?  How old is it?


I can't remember, and I am uploading the video right now, it will take 50 minutes. But I cleaned and reapplied the paste, this time into an x. It is doing better than it was with the super thin layer spread evenly, it topped at 89c in furmark (still hot though), took longer to get there, and the crash did not happen. As you will see when the video uploads, it crashed both times in furmark when it hit exactly 75c, I'm sure it would have done it a third time too. 
I will let you know what power supply I have when the video is uploaded, but I think it could be as old as four years old (just cannot remember), and I think it is 650w. The crashing seems to have stopped though. When the crash happened my gpu fan kicked in and ran extremely loud, louder than I thought it was capable of. Manually you cannot make the fan run higher than 74%, my guess is perhaps it has a reserve for when the gpu heats up too fast and hits 100% in an emergency. I'm just taking a guess though. You will get to see it happen in the video.
I'm starting to think it may just be very difficult to seat just right, like it doesn't want to press together very tightly or something. When I took the cooler back off, the copper heat sink did not have a square of thermal paste, it was more a triangular shape, and dotted everywhere else within that square area.


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## EthanJM

Here is the video.


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## EthanJM

I reapplied it again, even cleaned off all the thermal pads and what they connect with, still running hotter than it did before I applied my own paste. I feel stumped. The only thing I can think of is this particular thermal paste isn't working well with my gpu, that or the board is warped or something and not allowing it to seat tight enough.

The crashing you saw in the video is not happening though.


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## johnb35

Well, you don't want to be using Qtips.  Use rubbing alcohol and lint free cloth to remove old paste.


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## EthanJM

johnb35 said:


> Well, you don't want to be using Qtips.  Use rubbing alcohol and lint free cloth to remove old paste.


I'll stop using qtips, but you don't think that could explain all of this do you? I went ahead and tried something, since it seemed the methods that used less paste gave me the worst temperatures, I went ahead and deliberately applied too much in an x, I am now getting the best results I have had so far, it seemed to top out at 84c on furmark, and it topped at 91c in GTA 5, one time it bumped 92c for a second and went back down, but it normally stayed around 88c. All other methods I tried it would hit 99c to 100c. The crashing seems to have stopped. Before I did any of this, the hottest I ever saw it get was 86c, so there is still a difference but not as drastic as before. Hopefully when the paste sets completely the temps might be equal to what they were before I messed with it, but they still aren't going to be back to stock speeds. I'm still confused as to what is going on. I'm about to just throw my arms up and use it, just cook the hell out of it. How long do you suspect it can go on like this? Say I keep going over 90c in the future, worst case scenario a couple hours a day. Is there a chance it could damage my motherboard?


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## Shlouski

johnb35 said:


> Well, you don't want to be using Qtips.  Use rubbing alcohol and lint free cloth to remove old paste.



I'm sure I heard him say he was using acetone alcohol after removing the paste and he used a microfiber cloth are lint free. You are applying the paste correctly so this is not the problem.
John inquired into what psu you have, a bad psu can cause a gpu to heat up more than normal and can cause instability.


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## EthanJM

I'll 


Shlouski said:


> I'm sure I heard him say he was using acetone alcohol after removing the paste and he used a microfiber cloth are lint free. You are applying the paste correctly so this is not the problem.
> John inquired into what psu you have, a bad psu can cause a gpu to heat up more than normal and can cause instability.


Ah, forgot about that, I'll check now, brb.


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## EthanJM

LSP Ultra 650w ATX


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## Shlouski

EthanJM said:


> I'll
> 
> Ah, forgot about that, I'll check now, brb.



You really need to check that its working properly. Do you have another psu you can try or can you put the card in another system to see if there are any differences in temperatures. Do you have a multimeter?


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## EthanJM




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## EthanJM

Shlouski said:


> You really need to check that its working properly. Do you have another psu you can try or can you put the card in another system to see if there are any differences in temperatures. Do you have a multimeter?


No I don't. But I might just replace it anyway. I could have sworn I heard its fan making noise on one cold morning. Could a faulty gpu also do this? And I still don't understand why the temps are higher than they were with the stock paste, and that I only managed to get the best results (which were still poor) by applying way too much paste. I have a friend that may just have a psu he isn't using.


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## Shlouski

EthanJM said:


> No I don't. But I might just replace it anyway. I could have sworn I heard its fan making noise on one cold morning. Could a faulty gpu also do this? And I still don't understand why the temps are higher than they were with the stock paste, and that I only managed to get the best results (which were still poor) by applying way too much paste. I have a friend that may just have a psu he isn't using.



Applying too much paste only works better because its filling a gap between the die and the heatsink. Remove the heatsink and take a photo of it, so we can see for sure that it is making a proper contact with the die. If it is making good contact with the die, then the paste is not the cause of the problem.


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## johnb35

The power supply could be dying in which would make the video card run hotter.  Max safe temp for the 660 is 97 degrees C.  Normal temp should be about mid 60's.


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## EthanJM

Shlouski said:


> Applying too much paste only works better because its filling a gap between the die and the heatsink. Remove the heatsink and take a photo of it, so we can see for sure that it is making a proper contact with the die. If it is making good contact with the die, then the paste is not the cause of the problem.


I think this is what is happening. I checked this myself, and there is really no way I could take a picture of it, I stuck my face close and tried to look at it with my eyes, and it is difficult to see, but you definitely have to press a little for them to make good contact, but the four screws seem to be pressing them together, but probably not as tight as it could be. If I want them to press together tightly I have to press in them together in the center. I figured it is probably just within very tight tolerances. Do you think the board warped a little through age or something? I really think this is what is happening, and it could explain why the temps started rising one day to begin with. Is there a special tape or something that could work that I could place on the heat sink?


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## EthanJM

johnb35 said:


> The power supply could be dying in which would make the video card run hotter.  Max safe temp for the 660 is 97 degrees C.  Normal temp should be about mid 60's.


The psu is at least four years old, so it could use replacing anyway. It might still be a part of it, but the reason I am leaning towards there not being good contact is like Shlouski said, I am getting my best temps by deliberately adding too much paste.


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## EthanJM

I found copper shims for exactly this problem, they are pretty cheap, probably worth a try. Looks like this happens more often than I would have thought. I wonder why they designed it with such tight tolerances.


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## Shlouski

EthanJM said:


> I think this is what is happening. I checked this myself, and there is really no way I could take a picture of it, I stuck my face close and tried to look at it with my eyes, and it is difficult to see, but you definitely have to press a little for them to make good contact, but the four screws seem to be pressing them together, but probably not as tight as it could be. If I want them to press together tightly I have to press in them together in the center. I figured it is probably just within very tight tolerances. Do you think the board warped a little through age or something? I really think this is what is happening, and it could explain why the temps started rising one day to begin with. Is there a special tape or something that could work that I could place on the heat sink?



I meant remove the heatsink and take a picture of the surface that makes contact with the die, to see if the thin coat of paste you applied has been completely transferred to the heatsink.


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## EthanJM

Shlouski said:


> I meant remove the heatsink and take a picture of the surface that makes contact with the die, to see if the thin coat of paste you applied has been completely transferred to the heatsink.



That really thin coat I made in the video did not appear to be making good contact, if you looked at the heat sink after I took it off, there wasn't a square, it was more like a triangle, and the parts of the square that were not there, there were a few random dots. When applied thicker you do get a full square, right now I know there will be a big messy square there because I added so much, and I have applied and reapplied the paste at least eight times now, both times I did it super thin you did not get left with a nice even square of paste on the heat sink. The copper shims are so cheap, it is worth a try, if it doesn't work the next logical step should be the psu correct? After that I would guess gpu or not enough air flow because I would be grasping at straws.
I don't want to take pictures now because I actually have temps that are actually within the safe range, but still hot, it is the first time I got it to work well enough I am not worried about the thing burning up for good, and I am nearly out of paste. But I can tell you, it will look like it does in the beginning of my video (except messier this time). My fiancee did not understand and kept the camera pointing at the heat sink for too long, but you can see a square of paste on the heat sink, and the chip was also covered.


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## Shlouski

EthanJM said:


> That really thin coat I made in the video did not appear to be making good contact, if you looked at the heat sink after I took it off, there wasn't a square, it was more like a triangle, and the parts of the square that were not there, there were a few random dots. When applied thicker you do get a full square, right now I know there will be a big messy square there because I added so much, and I have applied and reapplied the paste at least eight times now, both times I did it super thin you did not get left with a nice even square of paste on the heat sink. The copper shims are so cheap, it is worth a try, if it doesn't work the next logical step should be the psu correct? After that I would guess gpu or not enough air flow because I would be grasping at straws.
> I don't want to take pictures now because I actually have temps that are actually within the safe range, but still hot, it is the first time I got it to work well enough I am not worried about the thing burning up for good, and I am nearly out of paste. But I can tell you, it will look like it does in the beginning of my video (except messier this time). My fiancee did not understand and kept the camera pointing at the heat sink for too long, but you can see a square of paste on the heat sink, and the chip was also covered.



Right, the die is not fully making contact with the heatsink and is the reason for your problems. From watching you install the heatsink I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be making a complete contact, unless there has been a fault in the manufacturing process. Manufacturers usually use a large think square coat of paste applied to the heatsink and this seems to have been able to fill the gap keeping it cool enough. I don't know if there is a problem with the die or the heatsink, hopefully the heatsink as it can be replaced by an aftermarket cooler. I'm going to take another look at your card, can you take some close up of the die and the heatsinks please.


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## beers

I had this issue trying to replace the paste on my Radeon 6950, after removing the pads the paste did not provide enough clearance for the heatsink to make sufficient contact even at full mounting pressure.

Unfortunately I just gave up and bought an Accelero Xtreme III


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## EthanJM

Shlouski said:


> Right, the die is not fully making contact with the heatsink and is the reason for your problems. From watching you install the heatsink I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be making a complete contact, unless there has been a fault in the manufacturing process. Manufacturers usually use a large think square coat of paste applied to the heatsink and this seems to have been able to fill the gap keeping it cool enough. I don't know if there is a problem with the die or the heatsink, hopefully the heatsink as it can be replaced by an aftermarket cooler. I'm going to take another look at your card, can you take some close up of the die and the heatsinks please.



Sorry I am getting back with you late, been really busy and now only getting a chance to get back to this. I took it back apart and got some pictures of the inside, things are quite messy now since I used so much paste. But here they are.
  

That last picture is cringe worthy I know, but using that ridiculous amount of paste has given me the best results so far. Idles at a stable 32c and maxes at 83c in furmark. I measured the chip, it is 17mm in length, so a 20mmx20mm shim should do, not so sure how thick it should be though, I might just get a few different sizes.


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## Shlouski

EthanJM said:


> Sorry I am getting back with you late, been really busy and now only getting a chance to get back to this. I took it back apart and got some pictures of the inside, things are quite messy now since I used so much paste. But here they are.
> View attachment 6575 View attachment 6576 View attachment 6577
> 
> That last picture is cringe worthy I know, but using that ridiculous amount of paste has given me the best results so far. Idles at a stable 32c and maxes at 83c in furmark. I measured the chip, it is 17mm in length, so a 20mmx20mm shim should do, not so sure how thick it should be though, I might just get a few different sizes.



Its very hard to tell from a picture but I suspect that the square plate on the bottom of heatsink which makes contact with the die is the problem, it maybe not be level with the rest of the heatsink or has not be made completely flat, leaving you with a gap. If I were you I would buy an aftermarket cooler.


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## EthanJM

Shlouski said:


> Its very hard to tell from a picture but I suspect that the square plate on the bottom of heatsink which makes contact with the die is the problem, it maybe not be level with the rest of the heatsink or has not be made completely flat, leaving you with a gap. If I were you I would buy an aftermarket cooler.



Good eyes, I see what you are talking about, one corner is raised higher than the other. That would explain that triangular paste left behind on the cooler. Not sure if an old gtx 660 is worth dumping money into, I think I should either try the copper shim or use it as it is. I haven't gamed much the last few years with it, it might last quite a while even as it is.


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## Shlouski

EthanJM said:


> Good eyes, I see what you are talking about, one corner is raised higher than the other. That would explain that triangular paste left behind on the cooler. Not sure if an old gtx 660 is worth dumping money into, I think I should either try the copper shim or use it as it is. I haven't gamed much the last few years with it, it might last quite a while even as it is.



Your right, I can understand you not want to put money into it. I guess I would only consider buying a really cheap cooler, maybe you could find a used cooler on somewhere like ebay or maybe if you were very lucky you could find someone selling the stock cooler for your card because they replaced it with an aftermarket cooler. Otherwise if its working ok just keep on using it, I guess it will be replaced one day anyway.


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## Darren

Thermal paste can be pretty much a glue, particularly if it's old. I was pulling a heatsink off once and the CPU was pulled out of it's latched socket because the thermal paste was pretty much dry. Thankfully my hardware survived that.

When you removed the heatsink last time you probably pulled it up slightly. Might be worthless, but maybe finding a way to cinch the heatsink down would help keep the contact solid. As expensive as coolers can be, a whole new GPU might not be a terrible idea instead.


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## EthanJM

Darren said:


> Thermal paste can be pretty much a glue, particularly if it's old. I was pulling a heatsink off once and the CPU was pulled out of it's latched socket because the thermal paste was pretty much dry. Thankfully my hardware survived that.
> 
> When you removed the heatsink last time you probably pulled it up slightly. Might be worthless, but maybe finding a way to cinch the heatsink down would help keep the contact solid. As expensive as coolers can be, a whole new GPU might not be a terrible idea instead.



Yes, I had the same thing happen with my cpu some years back, there was no damage, but that was the reason I bought ceramique 2, it is known for not acting like a strong glue like many other pastes. That said, whatever stock paste EVGA used, it was not badly glued at all, it pulled straight off with no effort. I think it was just a bad heat sink, and they use a lot of paste to compensate for that, and it seems that is what you need to do to make the thing work.

Well everyone, as usual, I appreciate your time in helping me solve another issue yet again, I'm sure I'll be back in the future with something else.


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## Shlouski

I've have had similar problems removing heatsinks which were stuck on hard like glue. I figured that paste gets softer the hotter it gets and so it would be easier to remove the heatsink if the paste was hot, the problem is how do you get the paste hot and be in a position to pull the heatsink off, of course you don't want to pull a heatsink off a hot chip which is still powered on. The trick is using a hairdryer, works for me every time, remove the hardware so it can be worked on easily in a safe environment, dismantle it to the point of removing the heatsink and blow hot air through the heatsink, that in turn will heat up the paste making it softer and easier to pull the heatsink off whatever its stuck too. Seriously it works really well


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## Okedokey

Did you replace thermal pads with thermal paste?  If so the gap between the memory modules and the heatsink will be too large meaning the heatsink will not work for VRAM.  Go back and re-apply thermal pads for the memory chips if they were there originally.  Also make sure you replunged the fan into the pcb.


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## EthanJM

I know I am bumping an oldish thread, but I wanted to give an update. I ordered some copper shims. On furmark I normally leveled at 84c/86c, now I am leveling at 72c, that is a significant difference. I went into it without there being that much information on the effectiveness of these things, so I'm letting anyone who reads this thread know that if your gpu is running hot for the same reason mine was, the copper shims work wonders. The way I installed the shim was by putting a dot of paste on the heat sink, then pressing the shim onto the paste and applying a decent amount of pressure to try to spread it out evenly, then put another small dot on the chip and pressed it onto the heat sink and moved it around a little bit, put the screws back, and that was it. Below is a link to the shims I bought, I used the smallest .6mm shim. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280884145589?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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