# HD 5850 or GTX 470?



## iurytx (Oct 20, 2010)

I need a new video card. I was originally going to get a gtx 470 because i have always been a nvidia user. After doing a little research the hd 5850 looks like it performs better and is cooler (big deal for me cause of my tiny case) i am uncertain about which one to get. soooo... which one should i get? Made this a poll just for the hell of it. 

current pc specs:

amd phenom ii 955
asus m4a77d
8800gt and the rest of the stuff in my sig.


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## joh06937 (Oct 20, 2010)

i would wait for the 6xxx series to come out first, but for now i'll vote for the 5850.

what power supply do you have?


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## Rocko (Oct 20, 2010)

> i would wait for the 6xxx series to come out first, but for now i'll vote for the 5850.



I agree!


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## iurytx (Oct 20, 2010)

my power supply is this one. I ran a 9800gx2 on it for a couple of months so it should be decent enough right?


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## 87dtna (Oct 20, 2010)

Neither.  Hold off for the gtx475, should be out in november hopefully.


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## fastdude (Oct 20, 2010)

GTX470 is slightly faster than 5850, but 5850 much more efficient, less power, cheaper and runs cooler. Out of those two, the 5850. But I would either wait till the Radeon 6000 series come (soon) and get a 6850, or get a 475 when that comes out.


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## tech savvy (Oct 20, 2010)

fastdude said:


> GTX470 is slightly faster than 5850, but 5850 much more efficient, less power, cheaper and runs cooler. Out of those two, the 5850. But I would either wait till the Radeon 6000 series come (soon) and get a 6850, or get a 475 when that comes out.



i think the 6850 and 6870 replaces the 5750 and 5770, not the 5850 and 5870.


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## fastdude (Oct 20, 2010)

tech savvy said:


> i think the 6850 and 6870 replaces the 5750 and 5770, not the 5850 and 5870.



Ah right, yes of course. You'll want a HD 6950, becuse that seems to be replacing the HD5850. Still, apparently HD6870 will still be faster by about 30% than HD5870


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## tech savvy (Oct 20, 2010)

fastdude said:


> Ah right, yes of course. You'll want a HD 6950, becuse that seems to be replacing the HD5850. Still, apparently HD6870 will still be faster by about 30% than HD5870



i believe that its 30% faster than the 5750 and 5770, which puts it on the performance level as the 5850 and 5870.than the 6950 and 6970 will be 30%faster than the 5850 and 5870.


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## fastdude (Oct 20, 2010)

tech savvy said:


> i believe that its 30% faster than the 5750 and 5770, which puts it on the performance level as the 5850 and 5870.than the 6950 and 6970 will be 30%faster than the 5850 and 5870.



Typo'd, sorry 
So I imagine they will be cheaper than the counterparts which they replace?


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## salvage-this (Oct 20, 2010)

I read someplace that the 6850 and 6870 are in the $200-$300 range.


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## tech savvy (Oct 20, 2010)

i think the 6850 will be around the gtx460 price and the 6870 will be around the gtx470 price.


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## fastdude (Oct 20, 2010)

tech savvy said:


> i think the 6850 will be around the gtx460 price and the 6870 will be around the gtx470 price.



5850 performance for 460 price, 5870 performance for 470 price... Wow AMD are gonna be happy with all the profit...


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## Aastii (Oct 20, 2010)

fastdude said:


> 5850 performance for 460 price, 5870 performance for 470 price... Wow AMD are gonna be happy with all the profit...



The 6850 won't be performing the same as a 5850, at least not from information so far, it will sit in between a 5770 and 5850, basically somewhere around 5830 performance. Assuming the prices are right, and the 6850 does cost ~ the same as a 460, the 460 would still be the better choice.

And you have to remember before fermi came out how people were saying "Wow, look how amazing they are...on paper, they are going to destroy ATi all across the board" and look what happened with their power hungry, overheating pieces of crap. They did prove though that fermi isn't all lost with the 460, but just saying don't get too excited straight away and assume they will be amazing, it has happened before that the hype hasn't be given with good cause, it has happened very recently, and more than likely, it will happen again


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## fastdude (Oct 20, 2010)

Aastii said:


> The 6850 won't be performing the same as a 5850, at least not from information so far, it will sit in between a 5770 and 5850, basically somewhere around 5830 performance. Assuming the prices are right, and the 6850 does cost ~ the same as a 460, the 460 would still be the better choice.
> 
> And you have to remember before fermi came out how people were saying "Wow, look how amazing they are...on paper, they are going to destroy ATi all across the board" and look what happened with their power hungry, overheating pieces of crap. They did prove though that fermi isn't all lost with the 460, but just saying don't get too excited straight away and assume they will be amazing, it has happened before that the hype hasn't be given with good cause, it has happened very recently, and more than likely, it will happen again



Fair enough


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## iurytx (Oct 20, 2010)

when does the 6850 and 6870 come out? i think ill wait till then to see if prices on the 5850 drop.


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## tech savvy (Oct 20, 2010)

iurytx said:


> when does the 6850 and 6870 come out? i think ill wait till then to see if prices on the 5850 drop.



as far as i know, aday or two till launch world wide.


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## 87dtna (Oct 20, 2010)

Bravo to AMD for attempting to cause confusion and get extra sales off of it.   A 6870 looks nearly identical in specs to a 5830 with a little overclock, for a good bit more money too.  

The 6850 and 6870 look like a complete waste of money.  Nothing is improved from the 5k series.  These cards are probably gonna be as much of a flop as the gtx465.


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## Aastii (Oct 21, 2010)

87dtna said:


> Bravo to AMD for attempting to cause confusion and get extra sales off of it.   A 6870 looks nearly identical in specs to a 5830 with a little overclock, for a good bit more money too.
> 
> The 6850 and 6870 look like a complete waste of money.  Nothing is improved from the 5k series.  These cards are probably gonna be as much of a flop as the gtx465.



6850>5750
6870>5770

yes, they have improved over the 5000 cards, at least performance wise. price/performance though, i dunno, and we will see just how improved after the high end cards come out. I think it is still too early to dismiss them or pass judgment, either positive or negative. I don't think they are showing a whole lot of promise or causing a lot of excitement though to be honest, at least not the same way that the fermi cards did


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## StrangleHold (Oct 21, 2010)

Looks to me like.

6850>5770
6870>5830

People might as well forget the numbering scheme from the 5000 series back.


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## 87dtna (Oct 21, 2010)

Aastii said:


> 6850>5750
> 6870>5770
> 
> yes, they have improved over the 5000 cards, at least performance wise. price/performance though, i dunno, and we will see just how improved after the high end cards come out. I think it is still too early to dismiss them or pass judgment, either positive or negative. I don't think they are showing a whole lot of promise or causing a lot of excitement though to be honest, at least not the same way that the fermi cards did



Yeah, but why the 100 increase?  The X8XX series have always been the ''power house'' single GPU cards for AMD.  3850/3870, 4850/4870/4890, 5850/5870.  Now all of the sudden the 800's are no longer easily beating the 700's.  Now the 6950 and 6970 are the power house cards.  There seems to be no 67xx series was my point.  Why isn't is 6750 and 6770?  That seems to be the ''performance'' zone it should be.


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## Aastii (Oct 21, 2010)

87dtna said:


> Yeah, but why the 100 increase?  The X8XX series have always been the ''power house'' single GPU cards for AMD.  3850/3870, 4850/4870/4890, 5850/5870.  Now all of the sudden the 800's are no longer easily beating the 700's.  Now the 6950 and 6970 are the power house cards.  There seems to be no 67xx series was my point.  Why isn't is 6750 and 6770?  That seems to be the ''performance'' zone it should be.



AMD say it is because they "had to free up space". What exactly they have planned for the lower end cards, i dunno, but that is their reasoning behind it. The 67xx will be the same as the 46xx and 56xx were, the 69xx will be the same as the 58xx and 48xx were. 

I assume, because that gets rid of all room at the upper end, they will do what they did the the 4xxx series cards, and when they have multiple GPUs on 1 PCB it will be the 6950x2 or something like that.

I agree, it is pretty retarded, but you got to do your research first before you buy, and the information that the 68xx are no longer the top end, single GPU cards, and are instead the mid-high end cards, like the x7xx were, is readily available all over, a few seconds on google will show you the change


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## linkin (Oct 21, 2010)

Nvidia has just slashed prices on the 460/465/470 so the 470 gets my vote... the 460 is now $150  i paid $260 aud for mine.


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## 87dtna (Oct 21, 2010)

The 768mb is $150.  You'd be hard pressed to get a 1gb under $200.

The 470 is still $300.  A 460 1gb is MUCH better bang for the buck, if you get the overclocked version it's pretty much as strong as a 470 anyway.  Plus, like I said, just wait for the 475.  It will be around the same price as the current 470 and should whip it easily.


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## Aastii (Oct 21, 2010)

87dtna said:


> The 768mb is $150.  You'd be hard pressed to get a 1gb under $200.
> 
> The 470 is still $300.  A 460 1gb is MUCH better bang for the buck, if you get the overclocked version it's pretty much as strong as a 470 anyway.  Plus, like I said, just wait for the 475.  It will be around the same price as the current 470 and should whip it easily.



Over here the 5850s are very slightly more expensive than the 470s, and the 460s are a hell of a lot cheaper, even the 1GB ones.

5850: ~£200
GTX460 1GB : ~£160
GTX470: ~£195

From then, I would go with the 460, you are getting, as you say, excellent performance, but paying much less for it.

Though I also agree to wait for the 475 to see how it performs, that is if OP doesn't need the card right now


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## iurytx (Oct 21, 2010)

When does the 475 come out? I'm not in too much of a hurry but I dont want to have to wait more than a month.


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## Aastii (Oct 21, 2010)

iurytx said:


> When does the 475 come out? I'm not in too much of a hurry but I dont want to have to wait more than a month.



everything is speculation at the minute, but I wouldn't hold your breathe for a release with in the month, maybe not even with in the year, so because you don't want to wait, I would say go for a 460 for best price/performance


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## iurytx (Oct 21, 2010)

Yea the 460 has been looking like a better deal. How much better is the performance of the 5850 vs the 460?


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## salvage-this (Oct 21, 2010)

iurytx said:


> Yea the 460 has been looking like a better deal. How much better is the performance of the 5850 vs the 460?



At stock, it seems like the 460 is just under the 5850 but after a decent overclock it can overtake the 5850 in quite a few games.  Especially in heavy tessellation.


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## Aastii (Oct 21, 2010)

iurytx said:


> Yea the 460 has been looking like a better deal. How much better is the performance of the 5850 vs the 460?





salvage-this said:


> At stock, it seems like the 460 is just under the 5850 but after a decent overclock it can overtake the 5850 in quite a few games.  Especially in heavy tessellation.



A 5850 can OC too 

The performance difference though, even at stock clocks, is negligible. For the sake of argument, you have the same performance, but you will see better performance in games with Physx with the 460 because there is less load on the CPU, and the 460 is much cheaper. As it is for gaming though, make sure you get the 1GB model, the performance difference is great compared to the 768MB


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## iurytx (Oct 21, 2010)

I think I'm gonna get the 460 because I work a lot in the cs5 programs especially ps and after effects


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## iurytx (Oct 21, 2010)

wow just checked newegg and the gtx 470 is $260
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130550&cm_re=gtx_470-_-14-130-550-_-Product


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## 87dtna (Oct 21, 2010)

Yeah I just noticed as well they JUST took a huge dive.  Well with the release of the 6k series ATI cards, they are trying to sell off all the 470's to make room with the 475's coming in.


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## iurytx (Oct 21, 2010)

well might as well take advantage of this and get the 470 right? Do you think it would get too hot in my antec 300? i only have 2 fans one on top blowing out and one on front blowing in. If i got another fan for the back and another for the front would it help? 2 fans are way cheaper than a whole new case lol


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## 87dtna (Oct 22, 2010)

No I would still get the 460.

There is a chance, once the 475's come out, that you could flash the Bios of the 460 and make it a 475 anyway and unlock the other block of stream processors.


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## iurytx (Oct 22, 2010)

yea i guess 460 it is.


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## 87dtna (Oct 22, 2010)

Just make sure you get a 1gb model, not a 768mb.


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## funkysnair (Oct 22, 2010)

scrap both and get the 6870...

the gtx460 768mb is not a terrible card, only drops a few fps against the 1gb


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## 87dtna (Oct 22, 2010)

funkysnair said:


> scrap both and get the 6870...
> 
> the gtx460 768mb is not a terrible card, only drops a few fps against the 1gb



Say what?  A 6870 is definitely weaker (5830 performance) than a 460 1gb.  And also I can't find any 6870's with lifetime warranty except the XFX, and that one is $260+ $8 shipping when you can get an EVGA gtx460 1gb for $240 shipped with lifetime warranty and have a stronger card.

Also, about the 1gb VS 768mb debate.  It depends on what resolution he's gaming at and with what settings.  At 1080p, on some games I play with 16x/16x AA/AF I'm using around 850-900mb of memory.  So with only 768mb, it's a bottleneck and will drop FPS quite a bit more than just a ''few''.

Let me also make a disclaimer here.  Most sites only test reference gtx460's with the stock 675mhz core clock.  gtx460's have been known to be exceptional clockers, and it's been helping a ton with FPS.  Mine clocks to 850 core clock on stock volts, and 900 core clock with increased voltage of .087.  I've gotten 30-40 FPS gains from overclocking with high settings.  If the 6870 can overclock more than 100mhz over stock I'd be surprised, without extra voltage that is.


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## funkysnair (Oct 22, 2010)

so you use 1080p you would see a bigger fps drop, but is he? i used 768mb version on bc2 with everything maxed and didnt get lag on my 1050 monitor, saved a few £ and got what i wanted!

im sorry but i thought the 6850 was on par with 5830 and the 6870 was better than the 5850?

too many options dam it lol


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## 87dtna (Oct 22, 2010)

funkysnair said:


> so you use 1080p you would see a bigger fps drop, but is he? i used 768mb version on bc2 with everything maxed and didnt get lag on my 1050 monitor, saved a few £ and got what i wanted!
> 
> im sorry but i thought the 6850 was on par with 5830 and the 6870 was better than the 5850?
> 
> too many options dam it lol



Yeah I don't know what he's using, but it's not all about the amount of memory either.  The higher memory bandwidth of the 1gb allows for less drop in FPS when AA and AF is added.

I did check it out a little more extensively, a 6870 is about on par with a 5850.

Here's a bench-

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...sk=view&id=628&Itemid=72&limit=1&limitstart=7

I'm really glad they got the FTW edition gtx460 in there because it shows how much difference overclocking makes on the 460.  Also, their overclocking could only get another 50mhz core clock on the 6870 before they got artifacting, so that shows that AMD is pretty much already maxxing the card out.


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## iurytx (Oct 23, 2010)

My monitor is 1680x1050 but I'm planing on going to 1080p soon. Currently I'm looking to upgrade cause of bc2. My 8800gt isn't cutting it.


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## 87dtna (Oct 23, 2010)

The 6870 does look OK, but I'd personally still get a gtx460 1gb.  Performance isn't THAT much better to make a switch to ATI.

The gtx460 1gb is a perfect match to 1080p IMO, the 768mb is perfect for 1050.


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## Aastii (Oct 23, 2010)

87dtna said:


> The 6870 does look OK, but I'd personally still get a gtx460 1gb.  Performance isn't THAT much better to make a switch to ATI.
> 
> The gtx460 1gb is a perfect match to 1080p IMO, the 768mb is perfect for 1050.



not sure what prices are like over there, but here prices go (from cheapest to most expensive)

6850>460>6870

The price between a 1GB 460 and 6870 is ~£20-30, and for that you get much better performance, with only very marginally greater power draw and noise levels.

Then the 6850, which also beats the 460, at lower and high resolutions, is cheaper by around £10-£0 price difference, with the 6850 being cheaper, and using less power than the 460.

A few days ago, I'd have agreed that the 460 was the best choice, but for the price and the greater performance, either of the current 6000 series cards would be the better choice. You can't say "it isn't worth switching to AMD" when he hasn't got a card to begin with, and the brand shouldn't matter when it comes to making a decision, unless you plan to SLI/Crossfire and can't do 1 or the other on your board, so have to go with a certain manufacturer


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## 87dtna (Oct 23, 2010)

He has an 8800gt he said I thought.

Where are you seeing the 6870 is much better performance?  I only ever see a couple FPS better, plus as I already mention they always used a completely stock reference gtx460 which is ridiculously low clocked at 675 core clock.  All GTX460 1gb's can get to atleast 800-850 core clock on stock volts, the site with the link I showed could only overclock the 6870 by 50mhz on the core clock before artifacting.

Did you see the link I gave with the gtx460 FTW edition?  It beat the 6870 easily everytime, it's clocked at 850 core clock.


Also, I've never had an ATI card that overclocked as well on the memory either.  I can overclock over 300 mhz on the memory, taking bandwidth from 115gb/s to 135 gb/s.


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## Aastii (Oct 23, 2010)

87dtna said:


> He has an 8800gt he said I thought.
> 
> Where are you seeing the 6870 is much better performance?  I only ever see a couple FPS better, plus as I already mention they always used a completely stock reference gtx460 which is ridiculously low clocked at 675 core clock.  All GTX460 1gb's can get to atleast 800-850 core clock on stock volts, the site with the link I showed could only overclock the 6870 by 50mhz on the core clock before artifacting.
> 
> ...



I know it is stock, and I know that the 460s are clocked low and can overclock well, however, comparing stock clocked 6870 to stock 460, the 6870 wins out every time for only a reasonably small price increase. From the benches I have seen you are talking, in some cases, as much as near 20% better performance.

If you put in overclocks though, the price difference changes greatly if you get a factory overclocked 460 compared to a stock 6870, and if you overclock yourself, you lose warranty and face possible problems with system instability, increased heat, and increased power draw. I know that you can get around the warranty issue because the manufacturer can't prove it, and done right the heat/power isn't a problem, but it is extra above what you get as standard, just to meet the performance of the other card.

I'm not saying not to factor in overclocks, but they shouldn't be a key thing, especially when both cards, at stock, will perform well enough in most games, and even when overclocked, the 460 doesn't beat the stock 6870 by a massive amount anyway, at least not enough for me, personally, to justify losing warranty, stability and time over


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## 87dtna (Oct 23, 2010)

EVGA not only allows overclocking they support and even advertise overvolting the gtx460 while retaining the warranty!  As long as you never do anything to bypass the capped voltage at 1.087.
There is no issue with heat or reliability with a 800 core clock overclock, all 460's can easily do 800 at stock volts and stay under 60c doing it.

Overclocking certainly is a factor when you can only overclock the 6870 by 50mhz and the gtx460 175mhz.  Certainly seems like an ATI fanboy argument to not allow overclocking 

Furthermore, you have large 1020mhz overclock on your own card, probably with extra voltage, and you are spouting about heat/reliability/warranty?  OMG

Also, all new gtx460's come with 720mhz core clock as standard now, so already a 45mhz overclock.

If you don't overclock just get a superclocked gtx460 for the same performance and price (maybe still less) as a 6870 

Actually you can get the FTW EE edition directly from EVGA for $240 shipped plus a $10 MIR-

http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=01G-P3-1378-TR&family=GeForce 400 Series Family&sw=


The FTW only has a 2 year warranty though, which really is plenty for any card pretty much.


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## Aastii (Oct 23, 2010)

87dtna said:


> EVGA not only allows overclocking they support and even advertise overvolting the gtx460 while retaining the warranty!  As long as you never do anything to bypass the capped voltage at 1.087.
> There is no issue with heat or reliability with a 800 core clock overclock, all 460's can easily do 800 at stock volts and stay under 60c doing it.
> 
> Overclocking certainly is a factor when you can only overclock the 6870 by 50mhz and the gtx460 175mhz.  Certainly seems like an ATI fanboy argument to not allow overclocking
> ...



You've said about me being an ATi fanboy at other times, even though I have recommend nVidia cards on here, and ATi as well, have owned both ATi and nVidia and would take either. You always seem to mention it if I'm saying ATi shouldn't just be discarded because they are ATi, or there is an nVidia alternative, basically any time that there is a difference in opinion, or if a conflicting argument to yours comes up. To me it is just whichever will give you the best prformance for the price, so give that one a rest, I couldn't care less whose technology I buy for any part of my system.

I bought my 5770 second hand, as it was the best I could get for the amount I had available, I didn't buy it for the overclockability, that wasn't, at any point, a factor in my purchase or in the purchasing of any other part of my computer, it was an afterthought. I know now I've lost warranty, I know that my card is using more power, and I know that it is producing more heat. 

Rather than spending half of your post having digs at me, which you seem to do to everyone in with most posts if they have a difference in opinion to you, why not just give the reasons as to why you think what I say isn't right, and why OP should get 1 card over another? This thread, and no other thread for that matter, is for trying to pick holes in the other person or make things personal, it is there for discussion or for help, and constantly saying "but you do this that and other, omg" doesn't achieve either of those.

Like I said, overclocks shouldn't be there as a "you must buy this card because it overclocks well", it should be a bonus. An overclocked 460 will indeed beat a stock 6870, but, again, like I said, imo the gain that you get isn't enough to outweigh the cons. If you were getting an unbelievable amount of extra performance, I would be agreeing that the 460 is better, but the fact is you don't get massive, noticeable amounts extra performance


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## 87dtna (Oct 23, 2010)

Well with EVGA you don't lose the warranty overclocking, or overvolting either.  Maybe thats a good reason.  I already mentioned that in the post you replied to.  So there goes your biggest con.  What else is there as a con for the 460?
And while I'm repeating, if you aren't an overclocker all you have to do is buy the superclocked gtx460 1gb, which is still cheaper than the 6870, to get the performance as the 6870 stock for stock.

And if you really want to get all technical, the 6870 or a gtx460 isn't going to give you ''massive'' gains over a gtx260 or a 5770 either, which can be had for $100-120 now.

Reasons-
GTX460 is smaller, cooler, less power draw, overclocks better, same strength when mildly overclocked , stronger when highly overclocked, lifetime warranty from EVGA thats not voided with overclock, and it's cheaper.

8 reasons isn't enough?  

Edit- Lets make it 9 reasons- As I mentioned earlier, a gtx460 may be able to be unlocked once the 475's come out and you can get a Bios for it.  At that point, the 6870 will eat dust from the gtx475.

So what are the reasons to get the 6870 over the gtx460?  Slightly stronger at stock clocks....OK thats one....


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## Aastii (Oct 23, 2010)

87dtna said:


> Well with EVGA you don't lose the warranty overclocking, or overvolting either.  Maybe thats a good reason.  I already mentioned that in the post you replied to.  So there goes your biggest con.  What else is there as a con for the 460?
> And while I'm repeating, if you aren't an overclocker all you have to do is buy the superclocked gtx460 1gb, which is still cheaper than the 6870, to get the performance as the 6870 stock for stock.
> 
> And if you really want to get all technical, the 6870 or a gtx460 isn't going to give you ''massive'' gains over a gtx260 or a 5770 either, which can be had for $100-120 now.
> ...



The size, temperature and (to a point) the overclockability are reasons for it, yes, especially the first 2, the 460 is tiny for the power it throws out, and 10-15 degrees difference is pretty damn big, but the others are getting into what I was saying about benchmarks in another thread about them, and how a very tiny difference is often blown out of all proportions.

At stock, under load, the 460 draws about 4 watt less. Are you seriously saying that a 4 watt difference is a reason to buy 1 card over another? That is, for the sake of argument, the exact same power draw, you aren't going to notice the difference by stress on your PSU, or on your electricity bill. The factory overclocked cards will be drawing slightly more power than a stock 6870 will, but again, not that much that it will be noticable, so is neither a pro, nor a con

The lifetime warranty, what about the XFX 6870? Lifetime warranty, and if you want to OC, they can't prove that you have done, so although in the fine print, you lose warranty, in reality you know as well as me that you don't. It is nice to know with EVGA that they won't throw it back in your face and say they think you have overclocked, so aren't going to cover you, but like everything else to do with overclocking, unless you are happy to potentially lose your warranty and want the extra performance, it isn't really a factor.

I'm going to linger on that last point for a moment, to say the reason why I don't think it should be a reason, is the same reason that I don't think saying get a dual or tri core PhenomII/AthlonII with a board with ACC, you might be able to make it a quad core should be a reason. It isn't certain you will get the extra core, just like it isn't certain you will get the same overclocks as everyone else. You get yourself an awful chip, and you going buying a card "because it is a great overclocker" has just been for nothing. It is a personal thing, but I would rather know for certain that I have what I want and need, and have anything else as a nice bonus. With the 6870, you get what you want and need without changing anything.

Then what you said about performance. In a fair few games/tests, the 6870 is on par with a 5850 or GTX470. An overclocked 460 can meet/beat a 5850, and can get close to 470, but not to the extent that a 6870 does. But again, we are getting into the realms of can you notice the difference, and I think the answer there is no. Image quality is near identical, fps is also, but that is with 1 card stock, the other overclocked. I know, from those 2, which I would pick.

Price:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1gb-...stream-processors-2x-dl-dvi-i-hdmi-2x-mini-dp

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1gb-...shader-1700mhz-336cores-2xdl-dvi-i-1xminihdmi

~£5 difference, again, isn't exactly a fortune. If it were more, I could understand, but as prices change, which they will do, the 6870 will drop in price after the initial period of just being released, where as nvidia won't be dropping the 460 price for a while yet.

I have just checked on newegg though also, and there there is ~$30 difference between those 2 cards (with MIR factored in), which is definitely a sum that would justify getting one over the other, so I have to agree with you that for the prices on the egg, the 460 would be the better option.

And the final edit that you put in about the 475, it should be if the 475 comes out, not when. So far the only "evidence" that there is a 475 coming is from nvidia's past, and from speculation. No word has come from nvidia's mouth about revised fermi cards, or any solid fact that a 460 can have its bios flashed to vastly increased performance


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## 87dtna (Oct 23, 2010)

An ''awful' overclocker is one that doesn't get past 800 core clock on stock volts.  

The superclocked version would probably be about the same strength as a 6870, and should be cheaper than the FTW edition.  And if the FTW is stronger, stock is weaker, safe to assume the superclocked is probably right around the exact same strength.

All you are doing is playing down my reasons.  All you can say is ''oh thats not that big of deal'', but it's still a reason.  There is ZERO reason to get a 6870 over a superclocked gtx460 1gb.  *they are the same strength.*  So stop rambling about ''the same reason you recommend getting a quad over taking a chance to unlock cores''.  There is no chance (talking about overclocking), they are the same PLUS you get the chance of unlocking with the 460 to a 475 in the future.

That whole huge post and you cannot come up with a reason why to get a 6870 over a gtx460 SC 1gb when I've given you 9 reasons.  Some small reasons, but they are still pro's for the 460 over the 6870.  Please give me your list of reasons.

A gtx460 is already a 475 with a block of stream processors shut down.  There is 100% chance of a release of a gtx475 because it's already here in the detuned form.... a 460.  What they are waiting for is the gtx470's to be sold because Nvidia knows they won't sell anymore of them at all once they release the way better 475.  It's also the reason they are staying quiet about it.


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## StrangleHold (Oct 23, 2010)

Should not base opinions on one review. Here at Canucks, it looks like the 6850 damn near is equal to the 460 1gb. And both have better power draw then the 460. Plus cherry drivers.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru.../37286-amd-radeon-hd-6870-hd-6850-review.html


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## 87dtna (Oct 23, 2010)

Nope, they used 260.89 drivers.  I've personally had benches score much higher with the 258.96 drivers.  The 260 drivers are for the gts450.

I mean, have some common sense.  Most of the time a 5830 is whipping the 460 1gb.  Come on.

And also, yet again, a super low clocked 675mhz core clock gtx460 1gb.  

Actually, just looked and the other review used the same drivers too.  Interesting.


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## funkysnair (Oct 24, 2010)

i have read up more on this and looked at benchmarks and in my opinion the 6870 looks the better buy!

i really dont know why you are banging on about overclocking etc, the op didnt mention overclocking?

the price of the cards over here in uk are  far more matched and for that reason i would get the 6870, however if i could find a gtx460 1gb for say £30-£40 less i would choose the gtx460.


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## Aastii (Oct 24, 2010)

funkysnair said:


> i have read up more on this and looked at benchmarks and in my opinion the 6870 looks the better buy!
> 
> i really dont know why you are banging on about overclocking etc, the op didnt mention overclocking?
> 
> the price of the cards over here in uk are  far more matched and for that reason i would get the 6870, however if i could find a gtx460 1gb for say £30-£40 less i would choose the gtx460.



Exactly. Out of the box, you are getting much better performance. You can overclock the 460, and you may get slightly better, or close to the performance of, the 6870, but at the cost of extra power draw (not a whole lot more than the 6870, so can't really be a reason, but it is a fact so will throw it in there), extra heat and extra hassle.

On the egg, the $30 difference makes the 460 the better buy, but if it gets to the point where there is only a few $ in it, like over here now, the 6870 would be the best choice every single time


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## 87dtna (Oct 24, 2010)

For like the millionth time, if you aren't an overclocker, getting the superclocked gtx460 is equal performance to a 6870, and still cheaper.

Edit- Or the FTW edition for the same price is a stronger card.


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## 87dtna (Oct 24, 2010)

Also, looks like gtx460 1gb's took a dive in price with the release of the 6k series.

Now a 1gb is $200 free shipping-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130565


Thats $47 cheaper than a 6870...

A superclocked lifetime warranty 460 is now $224 shipped minus a $10 MIR-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130568


So still $33 cheaper than the cheapest 6870, which only has a 2 year warranty.

The cheapest 6870 with lifetime warranty is the XFX at $268 shipped.  So $54 cheaper to get the superclocked gtx460 lifetime warranty card.  This seems like a no brainer.


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## funkysnair (Oct 24, 2010)

well played on nvidias part basicly there dropping there prices to a point where you cant look anywhere else, all this competition is obviously paying off for use...

i bet if ATI wasnt around Nvidia wouldnt let you have the gtx 460 for the price its at now, and vice versa.

im looking forward to seeing what the next step for ATI is going to be, the 6870 i think was aimed at the gtx 460 as nvidia has the best bang for buck in the mid region gpu market


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## 87dtna (Oct 24, 2010)

Competition is healthy, definitely.  I think the 6870 is a fail in that regard.  They needed to make it stronger than it is to compete.  I guess they knew that everyone was going to compare it to a super low clocked reference gtx460 at 675mhz core clock....which you almost can't even get anyone.  Nearly all the gtx460 1gb's are now clocked at 720mhz.  The super clocked are at 763mhz.


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## funkysnair (Oct 24, 2010)

at this point a super clocked version of the gtx 460 is the winner but if ATI can hurry up and push out a high clocked 6870 then i would have to rethink


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## 87dtna (Oct 24, 2010)

funkysnair said:


> at this point a super clocked version of the gtx 460 is the winner but if ATI can hurry up and push out a high clocked 6870 then i would have to rethink



Seriously doubt it.  Seems like they've already pretty much maxxed it out.  They review place I linked to only got 50mhz core overclock before artifacting.


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## bomberboysk (Oct 24, 2010)

87dtna said:


> Seriously doubt it.  Seems like they've already pretty much maxxed it out.  They review place I linked to only got 50mhz core overclock before artifacting.


Yeah, the barts aren't looking to be great clockers, although a voltmodded one did 1200mhz:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4595345#post4595345


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## 87dtna (Oct 24, 2010)

Holy crap 1.51v!!!  And 5c ambient temp....brrrr


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## 87dtna (Oct 25, 2010)

Just saw on newegg you can get a PNY gtx460 1gb overclocked edition for $199 free shipping on newegg.  765mhz core clock, should be the same strength as a 6870 then.  

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133326

3 year warranty is really plenty for just about any card's normal lifespan before an upgrade is needed.  So it's $47 cheaper than the cheapest 6870 (which has 2 year warranty), and $67 cheaper than the lifetime warranty XFX.  Thats quite a bit for the same strength card, especially considering the added ''small'' benefits of the gtx460.

I'm sure the 6870 is a decent card, but the size/heat/price make it a fail when compared to a proper OC'd edition gtx460 1gb (even when the price was still at $220)

Heck, even the gtx470 took a price drop to $260 shipped (and has lifetime warranty)-

http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=012-P3-1470-AR&family=GeForce 400 Series Family&sw=


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## iurytx (Nov 1, 2010)

Ok ive finnaly narrowed it down to 2. 

This one or this one?

im looking for the one that will perform better but also stay cooler (msi?).
also what does fpb stand for and whats its difference from the superclocked one i posted?


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## salvage-this (Nov 1, 2010)

MSI. Better components on the board and a better cooler.  I just put that one in my desktop.


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## 87dtna (Nov 1, 2010)

iurytx said:


> Ok ive finnaly narrowed it down to 2.
> 
> This one or this one?
> 
> ...



The EVGA has a lifetime warranty VS a 2 year warranty on the MSI.  

GTX460's all run decently cool, so getting the EVGA isn't that big of deal.  The EVGA has external exhaust, the MSI puts all the heat into the case which may make your CPU and motherboard chipsets run warmer.

FPB stands for free performance boost, basically they gave you a small overclock to 720mhz core clock (from 675 standard), the overclocked has 763mhz.


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## iurytx (Nov 1, 2010)

yea... the evga was my first choice mainly because of the external exhaust. But im not to sure. For real im not 100% sure on the gtx 460 either lol but yea.


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## 87dtna (Nov 1, 2010)

I have the same model you are looking at (except not superclocked), and love it.  I play at 1080p with 16x/16x AA/AF and never have any lag of any kind.

With a still pretty quiet 50% fan, it usually runs mid 60's celsius while gaming.  Thats decently cool.  Or with 40%, it's nearly silent, and might hit 70c in some intense scenes with high settings (high GPU usage) but not usually.  I believe these cards can run about 105c sustained temps just fine, so not even close.  I'd personally take 70c and externally exhuasted than 60c and all the hot air into the case.  And again, lifetime warranty on the EVGA.


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## iurytx (Nov 1, 2010)

hmmm 70c is idle on my 8800gt lol. Yea i guess evga it is.


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## 87dtna (Nov 2, 2010)

Idles right around 40c.


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## FuryRosewood (Nov 2, 2010)

my directcu 460 idles around 30C


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## 87dtna (Nov 2, 2010)

Yeah, so what....you still only have a 3 year warranty.  There's nothing wrong with 40c idle, or even 70c load....especially if the hot air is blowing outside the case instead of in it.


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## FuryRosewood (Nov 2, 2010)

i am just content that the temps are lower than the furnaces of the 470s, im lookin forward to see how they keep this power management to get better and better. i thought my gtx+ cards ran pretty cool, but these 460s are giving the ati cards a run for their money (im not meaning to start a fight here, im just showing numbers, these 460s idle freaking low, its funny, their almost going lower than the cpu's out there at times)

-even with the air in the case, im not seeing it affect my cpu too much...i think its making a 2-3C change total on the radiator for the h50 but thats minor if anything...just wish we didnt have so many cats...dust buildup is freaking insane here...i go maybe 3-5 days then i have to clean the filters on this 1200...its disgusting


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