# My Custom Watercooling Journey



## Toast

Here we go guys...

So if you don't know, I recently bought an 8350, and I was disgusted by how poorly the stock cooler performed. I have very little funds, and I have very big expectations. So, that means it's time to get custom and make my own water cooling rig.

I'm making my own waterblock, as well as using some parts from an old koolance case to do this. My goal is to do this all for 50 dollars or less. I just got the copper at work today (for free!) and I'm about to go get the case now.






Excellent piece of copper. Can't wait to shape this into a waterblock. Any suggestions for how I should make the waterblock, let me know.

And for anyone who is saying I should have just bought an air cooler.

NO.

My computer is my hobby. I want to make something that I will be proud of. An air cooler will get the job done, but that doesn't mean I'll be happy with it.

I'll be back with updates later, once I grab the case. Thanks for looking


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## Machin3

It would be cool to etch a logo or design of some sort into the block but not sure how practical that would be. I would look into the best water block's design and either replicate that or try to alter the design to make it perform even better.


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## Toast

Update 1:

Grabbed the old Koolance case from my friend. After about 1/2 hour of work, I had the thing apart.






The case itself is very old. The internals in there are, well, they're pretty damn outdated. However, the radiator and the pump/res are going to be perfect, I think.






Btw lol don't ever disassemble liquid cooling if you still see coolant in it. I'm stupid. Poor wood floor.






The pump, interestingly enough, is submerged in the res. If I can somehow cram everything in to me case, that's going to help me a lot. It'll be a big space saver and also I'm assuming that the submerged pump will be a lot quieter than an external pump.






Broke off both connectors trying to get the old tubing off... oh well. I think that's easily fixable, considering the amount of work I"m going to be putting in to all of this.

 Dual 120mm fans look like a good fit...






To answer your suggestions, I'll be a little limited in how I make my waterblock, because I don't have a milling machine... Hahaha. I'm thinking a fin style waterblock, or pin. A maze style is just going to be way too difficult.


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## Toast

Little update.

Accidentally broke the fittings off the res/pump combo, but seeing as they were crap anyway, it didn't phase me that much. Replacing them with some better barb fittings and also working on getting all the letters/numbers off the tubing that comes printed on them. It makes it look so ugly.


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## MyCattMaxx

Without a vertical mill you are going to have a fun time making a block.
The first thing that comes to mind is a dremel tool, steady hands and a lot of bits.


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## Toast

I am most likely not making a maze pattern.


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## MyCattMaxx

Do you have another thin chunk for a base?
If not you are going to have to slice that into 2 pieces and you still need to work out a seal.
Or you will have to make a separate top plate and hollow out the top of that chunk.
Have you given thought to a mounting bracket yet?


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## Virssagòn

Why not using one of these cheap CPU waterblocks from eBay? I've one and seems fine, need to test it though...
Take one with an inner way if you're interested. 

I'll review it in a week or 2 while using an open loop to oc my Athlon until it explodes.
No closed or full loop, just ice cold water in and out. (Not circulating)


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## Toast

The idea here is custom, cheap, and good quality- all three of which I know I can achieve.

Tragedy hit today, though. My drill press caught and ****ed up the res. I took the pump out and now I'm considering custom res options. I want something small, but big enough to fit the pump, as it is a submerged pump setup.


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## Toast

Little update again.

These are the fittings for the waterblock.. Not sure if i should go with these or elbows? I feel like these might end up sticking out too far. What do you guys think?






Dumped the old pump and res (felt like it would be a little too ghetto anyway) and went with something thats going to offer more power and control. Yep, say hello to a 120 volt garden fountain pump.. It's got variable flow control, so I plan on fine tuning it for the best amount of gallons per minute. Should be perfect. Plus, you really can't beat it for 10 bucks. It's submersible. I need to find a res!






Everything so far-


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## MyCattMaxx

The problem with using elbow fittings will be screwing in the second one with the close spacing.


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## Toast

The fittings will not be screwed in. They're going to get dropped in to a whole and then soldered in place, since brass will solder to copper.

I'm not going with elbows anyway, though. Straight fittings are going to give me better flow, in my opinion, and ace doesn't have any thread to barb elbows.


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## Toast

Update-

Today I bought what I will be using for my reservoir  Here's some pictures of the new reservoir and pump-

This is the res. Picked it up at bed, bath and beyond while I was out with my girlfriend. It's airtight and has a lid, which will be absolutely perfect for this.






The pump fits inside perfectly!






Adding some padding on the bottom of the whole thing to help reduce virbation-






And this is a better picture of the pump. It moves a max of 158 gallons/hour, but I think that that may actually be too much, so I bought one that has a flow control. This will reduce the amount that it sends, hopefully. If it doesn't, maybe I can get a reducer or a small ball valve for it.


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## Toast

Little update before big one later...

Computer overheated again today  So... it's time. I'm finally going to get my hands dirty here. Drilling the holes in the res for the tubing, and I picked up a new plug for my pump (so I didn't have to drill a huge whole for the existing plug, i simply just cut it off) and I picked up two elbow fittings for the waterblock, instead of straight fittings.






I decided I am not going to cut the copper block in half. I'm leaving it whole, and then I'm simply going to drill out the channels, and I'm going to solder a thin sheet of copper on top that will seal it and hold the fittings in place. Time for some fun!


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## Toast

Today was a good day.

Finished the reservoir, pump, and radiator. Done, finished, gone.

The pump sits pretty in the reservoir, and there's three holes in the lid, one for the cord, one for the in, and one for the out.

I had to cut off the existing plug and put a new one on so that I could cut a small hole. Nothing you cant fix with a few stripped wires.











The waterblock, yes... It took the better part of the day, but it turned out absolutely amazing. I think it's going to keep my temps really low. I can't want to use it.






Drilled out holes for the fittings.






Ready to solder.






Soldering in the plugs-






Plugs done-






Soldering on the fittings- Nice smokey effect






What I did here is a drilled channels, making an S shape, and then I simply plugged up three of the holes, and the other two are the in and out. There's too small leaks in the solder. Nothing I can't fix tomorrow. No, it doesn't look as pretty as one you buy online for 50 dollars, but guess what. This waterblock cost me 10 dollars to make.






It will be polished, etc tomorrow. I'm buying 970 ud3, so I'm going to be able to overclock better. I'll probably wait until then to mount it, but I'm not sure. Maybe not.

Leak testing, and a picture of the tubing/res


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## Okedokey

Interesting project.   You may have to think about putting a larger passive heatsink on top of the block


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## Toast

It isn't passive. There's a dual 120 aluminum radiator, it just wasnt pictured in the leak test.


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## Laquer Head

Damn, thats GHETTO..


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## Toast

It actually really isnt ghetto at all, I just haven't made it looks pretty- yet. The block needs to get its leaks sealed, and then I can move on to poishing and maybe painting it?

And the reservoir/pump combo looks nice. There was just a lot of condensation on top. Tw radiator just looks like a normal aluminum radiator... Lol


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## Laquer Head

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nJdJ5aZMiI


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## Perkomate

How are you attaching the block to the motherboard?
Or did I miss something?


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## Laquer Head

Perkomate said:


> How are you attaching the block to the motherboard?
> Or did I miss something?



Based on how the rest of the mess looks, I'm guessing he will let the thermal paste hold the block on, as well as cool the CPU....


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## wolfeking

Toast said:


> It actually really isnt ghetto at all, I just haven't made it looks pretty- yet. The block needs to get its leaks sealed, and then I can move on to poishing and maybe painting it?
> 
> And the reservoir/pump combo looks nice. There was just a lot of condensation on top. Tw radiator just looks like a normal aluminum radiator... Lol


Looks have little to do with ghetto. Go used a block of copper and a drill/drillpress to make a waterblock. Then there is the fountain pump and glass jar. You are in downtown ghetto. 



Perkomate said:


> How are you attaching the block to the motherboard?
> Or did I miss something?


Based on how it is looking right now, I would guess something like a x pattern with a strait bracket (http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202077...roductId=202077353&storeId=10051#.UTwtEBzrz-Q) would work and fit the theme. 



Laquer Head said:


> Based on how the rest of the mess looks, I'm guessing he will let the thermal paste hold the block on, as well as cool the CPU....


Also why one should go with market instead of DIY.


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## Toast

Seems like I'm in the forum where everyone only thinks that decent cooling is possible by buying a H100i or a kraken x60, or by dropping hundreds of dollars on a custom loop... Sad world we live in. 

The fountain pump has variable flow control, and is much more heavy duty than any specifically designed computer water cooling pump. The block is solid copper, something you won't find from other blocks, and thus highly thermally conductive. 

Everyone somehow seems to be missing the fact that I have a radiator? It's a 2x120mm radiator that wasn't in that set of pictures. Yesterday I finally got it cleaned out and ready to go. 

The block is going to be attached with a mounting bracket that I am yet to make, and the reservoir is an acrylic, watertight jar with a removable lid.  The waterblock will get its leaks fixed today, and then it will be polished, and perhaps painted. 

I paid less than 50 dollars for all of this, and I'm willing to bet that when it's 100% done, it will be on par with any $100+ water cooling kit, so I'd keep your pessimistic comments to yourselves until it's shown to not work well.


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## wolfeking

Toast said:


> Seems like I'm in the forum where everyone only thinks that decent cooling is possible by buying a H100i or a kraken x60, or by dropping hundreds of dollars on a custom loop... Sad world we live in.


No one here is saying that decent cooling takes those components. But you could have very simply just grabbed a off teh market waterblock and had a much better component with very little out of pocket. You are taking a hell of a risk making your own block. 



> The fountain pump has variable flow control, and is much more heavy duty than any specifically designed computer water cooling pump.


 Power scales. If you pumped up a  Swiftech MCP955 to 120 volts, it would be the same quality and around the same flow. 



> The block is solid copper, something you won't find from other blocks, and thus highly thermally conductive.


There is a good reason why you don't see that. It is a waste of money to make solid copper blocks. The only part that needs to be copper is the part directly contacting the CPU. Above that, it is purely there to hold the cold plate (the copper piece) and water flow. That aside, a highly conductive material will not overcome a poor flow design, nor make the difference between an amateur (you) and a team of thermal/Hydro engineers that put in 100000+ hours design work into a component (Swiftech, Asetek, corsair, heatkiller, etc.). 


> Everyone somehow seems to be missing the fact that I have a radiator? It's a 2x120mm radiator that wasn't in that set of pictures. Yesterday I finally got it cleaned out and ready to go.


It is just an aluminum radiator. It will not perform that well, especially with a dated design. Though with your extremely high rate of water flow, I would look into getting a Transmission cooler for your rad. They are designed for that High flow rate. would also match the rest of your loop. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/ac...on-cooler/_/N-25io?itemIdentifier=151847_0_0_ for example. (you can get one at the pick and pull for round abouts $15-20, just have it flushed before using it). 



> The block is going to be attached with a mounting bracket that I am yet to make,


Take a look at the strait brackets. That will be far easier. Just weld/solder a stud in the center of the block to attach them somewhat securely (5/16 should be small enough, without loosing strength. Just weld it to the top, slide teh center hole of the brackets over the stud, and put a lock washer and nut on the end to hold it together.) should come to about ~$5 or so depending on tax. Use them and a decently long bolt to match the mount points on the board. 



> and the reservoir is an acrylic, watertight jar with a removable lid.  The waterblock will get its leaks fixed today, and then it will be polished, and perhaps painted.


There is nothing wrong with ghetto. It just means that you tried. The resv. will look better if you can paint it a decently dark colour to mask teh water inside. 
Don't attempt to paint the block. As far as polish, you need to go through the grits down to 2500-5000 or so to make it worth your while as a waterblock. Anything less and your performance will not make the work worth it. (this is talking about the mating surface of coarse. The other sides don't matter what you do to them). 



> I paid less than 50 dollars for all of this, and I'm willing to bet that when it's 100% done, it will be on par with any $100+ water cooling kit, so I'd keep your pessimistic comments to yourselves until it's shown to not work well.


You will likely match a $100 kit, if you are talking about a Coolermaster or Corsair kit. Otherwise, you are not going to outperform a true loop with this. It could be made to do so if you put more work and $$ into it. But expecting a bucket of parts that someone with limited engineering knowledge to outperform parts specifically built to do that job is unrealistic.  Expect it to outperform a similarly priced air cooler, that is where you will shine.


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## Aastii

It is a neat project, but there are flaws.

Firstly, your copper block + aluminium rad will be causing corrosion. The channels in the block are already very limited, having gunk build up there and in those tiny channels that the radiator has, as well as the cheap pump, it isn't going to be great in a few months - a year or two when it has had time to really act.

Secondly, you have very little surface area for your block. That which there is, the channels aren't going to be all that great for allowng the water to flow uninhibited beacuse you didn't use the "proper" tools, so you will be having a hell of a lot of resistance up in there. Combined with the 90 degrees fittings, that pump that better be able to provide a lot of pressure to overcome this

Thirdly, The radiator leaves a lot to be desired, but I will leave that as the previous posts make this a well trodden path already.

I will still be following as it seems very interesting to say the least, but I don't hold a huge amount of hope. I would absolutely love to wrong though


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## wolfeking

Aastii said:


> Firstly, your copper block + aluminium rad will be causing corrosion.


Might seem a bit of an odd question, but if Aluminum and Copper cause galvanic corrosion in loops, why don't they corrode when together on an air cooler? Is it just a chemical reaction between them and the water?


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## Toast

The block is going to be polished for a few hours, first with sandpaper, then steel wool, then polishing cream, etc. 

I'm using antifreeze as opposed to water. Less corrosion, and it's specifically made for cooling metal. 

The channels in the block are quarter inch. There are three long channels which run 3/4 of the length of the block, and 2 channels which run half the length. Since it is a solid block, the heat will disperse throughout the entire block, thus making the channels more effective. 

The pump is a 120volt and can pump up to 156 (I think) gallons per minute, but I think that may actually be too much. It has plenty of power to pump the coolant, trust me. 

I appreciate the input, though. I hope to finish it up today.


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## Virssagòn

Toast said:


> Seems like I'm in the forum where everyone only thinks that decent cooling is possible by buying a H100i or a kraken x60, or by dropping hundreds of dollars on a custom loop... Sad world we live in.
> 
> The fountain pump has variable flow control, and is much more heavy duty than any specifically designed computer water cooling pump. The block is solid copper, something you won't find from other blocks, and thus highly thermally conductive.
> 
> Everyone somehow seems to be missing the fact that I have a radiator? It's a 2x120mm radiator that wasn't in that set of pictures. Yesterday I finally got it cleaned out and ready to go.
> 
> The block is going to be attached with a mounting bracket that I am yet to make, and the reservoir is an acrylic, watertight jar with a removable lid.  The waterblock will get its leaks fixed today, and then it will be polished, and perhaps painted.
> 
> I paid less than 50 dollars for all of this, and I'm willing to bet that when it's 100% done, it will be on par with any $100+ water cooling kit, so I'd keep your pessimistic comments to yourselves until it's shown to not work well.




I bought one for 16 euro shipped from eBay, it works great lol.


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## wolfeking

Toast said:


> The block is going to be polished for a few hours, first with sandpaper, then steel wool, then polishing cream, etc.


No. This will reduce performance. On the mating surface, the side of teh block that touches the CPU, do not use anything other than Alcohol and Sandpaper. For the sandpaper, start with 320 grit, and move through them to at least 2k grit. When you are done, wipe it down with alcohol (cleans the material removed off), and look. You should have a mirror surface. If you do not, then do it again, the right way.  
Basically, from a scientific point of view, the smoother (more mirrored) the surface is, the better it will transfer heat. It is the same reason why some cheap coolers need to be lapped before use. 



> I'm using antifreeze as opposed to water. Less corrosion, and it's specifically made for cooling metal.


Negative. You are using 2 separate ideas to make it work, and it will not. antifreeze will reduce Oxidation (aka rust corrosion) in a system. It will not stop or reduce galvanic corrosion. It is specifically used in automobiles to stop the oxidation that occurs from having an open loop cooling system, with non galvanically reactive materials. Generally Aluminum Rad with Aluminum Block/Heads or Copper Rad with Steel Heads and Block. Some systems have carbon fiber or other exotic materials in the system, but as they are nonmetalic, it does not affect it.  
Your system will have galvanic corrosion because of the Aluminum and Copper in the same system. If you want to stop that, you either need to get a copper rad, or get an aluminum block. One or the other will stop the corrosion, or at least reduce it (that is assuming that the prop inside the pump is not aluminum or copper. But they generally arent unless you get one with massive (like over 1000 GPH) flow rates). 
The easiest way to fix this is to get a copper radiator. Like said above, get a transmission cooler. Affirm it is copper before you buy it. Should not cost much at all. 



> The channels in the block are quarter inch. There are three long channels which run 3/4 of the length of the block, and 2 channels which run half the length. Since it is a solid block, the heat will disperse throughout the entire block, thus making the channels more effective.


This is not exactly right. Yes Copper is conductive. the whole block being copper will to a point aid cooling. But it will not in the least make up for sloppy design, and poor workmanship. 
The way you have it set up, you are trying to use more coolant to make up for poor surface area, and it is not going to work. Nothing will make up for a lack of surface area, and you have to give the water time to adsorb the heat. 


Don't get us wrong. This is a neat project. But it is not going to work out how you want it to because you are not doing the proper research, and are half arseing the work. You could end up with a massively superior solution, or a low end solution. It all just depends on how much work you put into it.


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## Laquer Head

Toast said:


> *I paid less than 50 dollars for all of this*...



What I'm wondering is where the other $48.50 was spent...cause quite frankly looks like you went to a junkyard.

I'm all for DIY projects, but it looks like crap, won't work worth a damn, and is essentially a waste of time---

I mean..cmon you used a spice jar as a res...and .10c fittings from a hardware store--you're not even trying.

..

And FYI, I've seen some impressive DIY jobs and was blown away at the skill, creativity, and performance..

Yours looks like a bunch of crap you found in a dumpster and superglued together while drunk...

and I mean that in the semi-nicest way possible.


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## Virssagòn

Laquer Head said:


> What I'm wondering is where the other $48.50 was spent...cause quite frankly looks like you went to a junkyard.
> 
> I'm all for DIY projects, but it looks like crap, won't work worth a damn, and is essentially a waste of time---
> 
> I mean..cmon you used a spice jar as a res...and .10c fittings from a hardware store--you're not even trying.
> 
> ..
> 
> And FYI, I've seen some impressive DIY jobs and was blown away at the skill, creativity, and performance..
> 
> Yours looks like a bunch of crap you found in a dumpster and superglued together while drunk...
> 
> and I mean that in the semi-nicest way possible.



Why are you breaking down his project? It's pretty interesting starting from 0 with no money. Just wait until he's finished and shows his results.
You can give tips, comments,... But don't be rude, if he likes his project and he thinks it's good, then it is ok.


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## MyCattMaxx

SmileMan said:


> Why are you breaking down his project? It's pretty interesting starting from 0 with no money. Just wait until he's finished and shows his results.
> You can give tips, comments,... But don't be rude, if he likes his project and he thinks it's good, then it is ok.


This ^^
It is also part of the learning curve.

Reminds me of the comments about Smile's cheap block not looking pretty.
All I want is the report on how good it works.


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## spirit

Certainly an interesting project. I'll be interested to see how it all looks once it's done and how well it performs.


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## Virssagòn

MyCattMaxx said:


> This ^^
> It is also part of the learning curve.
> 
> Reminds me of the comments about Smile's cheap block not looking pretty.
> All I want is the report on how good it works.



I will, when I oc my athlon to 5ghz ;P.
Just waiting for the board.


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## Toast

Update on how it looks- It isn't done yet, though.

Everything is set in place, basically. I fixed all the leaks that were in the block and then spent about an hour polishing it... I think I spent enough time on it. Cleaned up the sides as much as I preferred.











Not the cleanest looking block, but I'm proud of it. First attempt ever, and basically my first time working with metal on such a large scale. All I've done before is soldered copper plumbing.

Bet you're all gonna get real mad at me. I used the normal AMD mounting hardware, and it works great. Sue me!






The coolant is just plain antifreeze/distilled water (50/50) with lots of dye added. Not the  EXACT color that I wanted... but it's pretty darn close. I like it. 











The radiator and reservoir are sitting beside it on my computer desk/nightstand. Right now, *this is being passively cooled* because I do not have my fans for this up and running.






It's very decent at transferring heat, as far as I can tell, as it only took a matter of minutes for the coolant to warm up once I ran COD4. Obviously, the coolant heated up more than I'd like, because there are no fans on the radiator, so it simply doesn't have any way to stay cool. My hope is to eventually do a push pull on the radiator- maybe with some better, non-computer oriented fans.. we'll see. There's always plenty of options when you know how to do anything you want (;

Passively cooled, the temperatures reached 50c while gaming, and that's about as high as they wanted to go. This is a big improvement from my previous 65-68c while using the stock air cooler, which would ramp up to 60-70 percent usage during gaming. This is silent, obviously, and I'm yet to put the fans in to better my temperatures.

The flow is just fine. Right now I have the pump running at about 1/3 speed, but I may lower it when I get my fans to see if having it move slower is going to help the liquid pick up more of the heat and also disperse it throughout the radiator.

Do I know what I'm doing yet or do I need to try harder?


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## wolfeking

You still are not doing it right.  What exact method did you use to polish? 

The mount method looks decent enough. 

Rad is still going to end up galvanicly corroded. But it seems like you don't give a damn about that, so have fun killing your system a few months down the road.


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## Toast

"Galvanic corrosion (also called ' dissimilar metal corrosion' or wrongly 'electrolysis') refers to corrosion damage induced when two dissimilar materials are coupled in a corrosive electrolyte."

The metals are not touching each other, nor are they electrically charged. I don't see a problem with corrosion here.


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## MyCattMaxx

Your coolant is the electrolyte.
The dissimilar metals make a battery.
Why do you think that water heaters have a zinc sacrifice rod?


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## wolfeking

Toast said:


> "Galvanic corrosion (also called ' dissimilar metal corrosion' or wrongly 'electrolysis') refers to corrosion damage induced when two dissimilar materials are coupled in a corrosive electrolyte."
> 
> The metals are not touching each other, nor are they electrically charged. I don't see a problem with corrosion here.


Run water over anything and the water will pickup pieces of said material. You are running an Aluminum Rad with a copper block. You are creating a galvanic cell between them. 

But as said, keep going. Don't do you research. It is only your system. Not ours (thank god).


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## Toast

Alright. I'm about done with this forum, as the bulk of the members here seem to be able to offer nothing but a pessimistic attitude. If you think this system is so terrible, I would love to see any of you make something similar for 50 dollars that is going to be such a big improvement over mine. Until then, I'll be posting on forums which seem to offer more appreciative posts that also offer up some constructive criticism. To the posters who actually offered up some genuine interest, as opposed to blind hate- thank you for your time.


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## Thanatos

Christ, everyone is hating on this guy. I, for one, admire this project and his work. If it can be done for $50 versus $100+, then do it. Way to go, guy. I like it!



Toast said:


> Alright. I'm about done with this forum, as the bulk of the members here seem to be able to offer nothing but a pessimistic attitude. If you think this system is so terrible, I would love to see any of you make something similar for 50 dollars that is going to be such a big improvement over mine. Until then, I'll be posting on forums which seem to offer more appreciative posts that also offer up some constructive criticism. To the posters who actually offered up some genuine interest, as opposed to blind hate- thank you for your time.


You just happened to fine the most pessimistic and sad individual on the forum, we're not all like this. I agree, if Wolfeking wants to get up and make his own DIY watercooler, than he can damn sure do it if he so chooses. but until then, he shouldn't be such an ass about it.


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## MyCattMaxx

Don't take me wrong.
I wasn't slamming your work.
I like what you did, it is a way to learn.


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## wolfeking

Thanatos said:


> Christ, everyone is hating on this guy. I, for one, admire this project and his work. If it can be done for $50 versus $100+, then do it. Way to go, guy. I like it!


There is no hate, but he will be able to do a lot better with his $50 if he used teh right tools to start, done some research and did not create a galvanic cell. If he wants to take it personal, or you for that matter, go right ahead. It is not going to make the loop run and better. 


> You just happened to fine the most pessimistic and sad individual on the forum, we're not all like this. I agree, if Wolfeking wants to get up and make his own DIY watercooler, than he can damn sure do it if he so chooses. but until then, he shouldn't be such an ass about it.


You choose to hold that idea, fine. You can also please go screw yourself. It is not at all helping him create a better loop or solve his galvanic corrosion issue.


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## Aastii

Some of you are getting completely out of line here. When constructive criticism is given, as wolfeking and mycattmaxx have been doing, it is not a reason to jump on one of them. Everything said by them so far has been completely valid and completely accurate, even if it is negative, it is all constructive criticism.

@ Toast, Nobody makes a flawless system, not even the professionals, but if you are not willing to address said issues and want to take offence when they are pointed out rather than act on them and learn, that is your problem. People want to see what you are making, but don't expect to post on a message board and expect no comments, be it positive or negative. How about rather than going off on one, you read what people are saying, do some research and come back with either "you were right, I did x, y and z instead" or "I am sticking to my way because..."

@Thantos and Origin,Thanks for chipping in there guys, what was put was really constructive , even though you haven't read a single word of the thread by the looks of it. All that wolfe has contributed to this thread is good, sound, solid advice. It isn't pessimism, it is reality. He isn't dictating what to do, he is advising, and it is good advice at that.I notice that he was saying the same as MyCattMaxx all the way through but you didn't pick up on what the latter said. I also said the same as Wolfe did in an earlier post, but you didn't pick up on that either, and Lacquer Head was way out of line in comparison, but you didn't pick up on that either. Why is that guys?

I will leave it up to the mods of this particular forum what happens with the thread, I for one want to see the progress though and have it stay up and running, but I am giving you all two options:

1. Follow the thread and play nice. Chip in if you want, be it praise or otherwise, so long as it stays civil, there is no reason this can't be a very good thread.

2. Carry on as you were, the thread will be closed and further action will be taken if necessary


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## Origin Saint

Out of respect for those involved and admission of not only my errors, but others as well, I will remove my posts from the thread.  Thank you Aastii for keeping it kind and civil.


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## Virssagòn

I wasn't mentioned, so neutral ;P.

Anyway, I hope toasty comes back because I'm really interested in this project and the results...


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## Okedokey

Look, if hes getting 50oC on that without fans and the pump at 30% he's smashed it.
Even if he has to rebuild it every year.  Its a great effort.  Very ingenious.


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## Toast

Update.

Temperatures aren't really what I'm looking for (55c after prolonged gaming) so I will be dumping this radiator, even though I still haven't actually tried it with fans correctly added.

Going to go with a car heatercore, as they have better mass than this dinky old radiator does. 

However, the entire loop IS very efficient at transferring heat. I unplugged the pump and let the cpu heat up to 65c. It dropped the temperature to 45c in about one minute, so I'm happy with that. It shows that the block itself is doing its job, but the actual coolant just isn't cool enough.

*THE BIG CORROSION DISAGREEMENT*

Galvanic corrosion is caused when electrolytes react with two dissimilar metals, creating a reaction that causes one metal to corrode much faster than the other.

Why I'm not worried about it.

I'm not using anything in my coolant that has electrolytes. My coolant consists of a pre-mixed 50/50 ratio of antifreeze to distilled water. In addition, antifreeze also has non-corrosive additives to help reduce corrosion on car parts. 

The pump is running at its lowest setting as of right now as my logic leads me to believe that a slower speed will give the coolant the maximum potential to disperse heat through the radiator. Lowering the speed dropped my temperatures about 3-5 degrees centigrade, so I'm pleased with that decision.

I suppose I should actually try adding some fans to the radiator before I decide to dump it, but I've already become rather dissatisfied with it as it is a bit small and I don't feel as though it offers enough mass/surface area to efficiently cool my processor, especially considering that I will be overclocking it in the future.

So, all in all, the waterblock turned out to be extremely effective (in my opinion, which is based on its performance) and the pump and reservoir combo are both silent and also powerful enough to cool something a lot bigger than this, most likely... but the radiator is lacking.

Any further ideas you guys have for getting my temps down before I get my new radiator, let me know. I'll give them a shot.


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## Okedokey

You're missing some key facts.

The ions in solutions (electrolytes) also come from the metals you make the loop with.  
Secondly anti-freeze is a complete and utter waste of time (apart from may be anti-corrosion).
The pump speed is directly proportional to heat transfer to a point.  As long as you have sufficient contact time (the radiator is large enough)
Fans are very important.
At the end of the day its the equilibrium temperature that matters - so run a cpu benchmark program for an hour and see what the temp is then up the pump, monitor every 15 minutes and chart it.  You will find the optimimm pump speed.  Then add fans.


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## salvage-this

I think a lot of the poor temps can blames on the cpu block.  It just doesn't have the same efficiency as a normal block would.   You are just loosing too much performance in the transfer from the CPU.  I can't do any better so I won't comment there 

Congrats on making it work for $50.  That is pretty sweet.


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## Toast

Like I said, the temps can drop sufficiently (20-25c in about 60-90 seconds) so the block is doing its job splendidly. The problem is the radiator simply does not have the necessary surface area and mass to cool efficiently.

And once I reseat everything on my new motherboard, I'll figure out the optimum pump speed. Although I must say, dropping the speed helped the temps, so it seems like this would be the best speed (lowest setting)

This pump is rated for 158g/h at max speed, which is 2.6 g/m. That seems awfully high to me. According to the way I see it, longer time in the radiator (to a point) = more time to let the radiator do its job and take the heat away from the liquid.

The block, which is directly on top of the cpu, is cool to the touch at idle temps. I think it's actually doing an excellent job at transferring the heat. The large mass of the block allows it to take a decent amount of heat away from the cpu, so I like how that worked out. Letting the cpu heat up by disconnecting the pump, you can see the temperature rise quickly, and then reconnecting the pump, you can watch it drop rapidly. This is why I think the block is actually pretty efficient. The problem I'm facing here is cooling the liquid- not the processor.


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## Okedokey

YOu need to look into thermodynamics.  The loop will be only as good as the weakest links, so some of your ascertions don't make sense.

Im not convinced that after equilibrium is reached that that wc system will perform well at all.


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## wolfeking

Toast said:


> I suppose I should actually try adding some fans to the radiator before I decide to dump it, but I've already become rather dissatisfied with it as it is a bit small and I don't feel as though it offers enough mass/surface area to efficiently cool my processor, especially considering that I will be overclocking it in the future.


IF you plan to replace the radiator, then go for a copper radiator. It will perform a slight bit better, and will alieveiate your Galvanic issue (which bigfella (or whatever he changed his name to now. :?) has already explained why you still have that. 

Also, be sure to get a fan with a high static pressure fan. I personally like the Corsair Air series as they perform really well and are extremely quiet. Notice though that they are 3 pin and RPM control can be tricky using motherboard software (won't happen with the P67 Asus software, X79 seems to have some issue too.) 




> Any further ideas you guys have for getting my temps down before I get my new radiator, let me know. I'll give them a shot.


Lap your processor lid. it does help a little bit (but it will also void your warranty). 

You could also try messing around with different TIMs to see what works best for your setup. This will be good for a few degrees at most though. 

You can also try to smooth your block some more. The higher grit you go to, the more efficient it will be at heat transfer. Could be worth about 5* at most, but every little bit helps. 

Another idea would be to slow the pump as much as possible. With a small radiator, the slower the water the better as it gives the water the best chance to dissapate the heat. 

Might be worth a shot to reduce the ratio of antifreeze. 70/30 is the most that is generally used in autos. I would think that 80/20 would be enough for your computer. I am not sure how much it will help or not, seeing as your coolant is never getting near boiling or freezing.


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## Okedokey

Before you do anything else, you need an equilibrium bechmark.  Im talking load for 1 hour. 

Run Prime 95 burn test and see?  That will give T max, also note the ambient temperature if you can.

That way you just play with one variable at a time (e.g. fan speed).

What method are you using to measure temperature?

BTW i still think you have done a marvelous job hey!


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## Toast

Okedokey said:


> The loop will be only as good as the weakest links,



Which is why I'm working on fixing the weak links (the radiator, mostly)

Also, when I get my new motherboard, I will probably smooth the bottom of the block some more. I somewhat rushed it as I was eager to try it out. Now that I know it will actually work, I'll go all out on the bottom of the block.

As far as the coolant goes, I may replace the existing coolant eventually, but for now, it's a little lower on the list of priorities.

And I don't believe heatercores are made from copper, although I may be wrong with this assumption. Last I checked, they were aluminum.

And Prime 95 made the temperatures shoot up pretty quickly. I really do feel like the problem here is the radiator, but perhaps the speed is also to blame.. to a point.

The flow on the minimum speed seems to be a decent speed. I know there's a lot of twists and turns in the waterblock, but no more than a normal waterblock.

The waterblock also heats up along with the cpu doing a stress test, then once the test is stopped, the cpu and the block cool down pretty quickly... So what am I missing here? Is it just that the coolant isn't being.. cooled?


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## Okedokey

Cheaper ones are Aluminium i think.  Most are, but he's right Cu has better thermal transmisivity i think.

Anyway on topic (system efficiency right?), id do this:


Drain the coolant, flush once and then fill with deionised/distilled water.

Whack your silver in there (corrosion is already possible so why not?) - a biocide.

Run Prime  95 max for an hour.

With Prime95 running, record temps every 5-10 minutes while you increase pumpspeed through to 100%. (e.g. 30%, 50%, 75%, 100%).

Then turn the pump down to 30% again and add fans.  Repeat recording regime.
Then you will know what will make it more efficient than a lump of copper.  

 Whack the data in excel and finish this post with data (CHARTS!)   

P.S you don't seem like a man who is afraid of a project 

I would also have a go at turning the pump off altogther and measuring delta T for that too.  See how passive it is.


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## Toast

Increasing the pump speed is a little difficult- only because it's submerged in thick antifreeze which doesn't offer the best visibility.

But I'll be trying that idea. As far as the thickness of the coolant goes, is a thin coolant better than a thicker coolant?


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## wolfeking

I can't guarantee on computer rads, but I know there are full copper rads (including the water tube (i forget name)) for cars.  a little google shows that EKWB EK-CoolStream RAD XT seems to be copper. Need to do more research though. 
Though I would be willing to bet that this would work better http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all26714/overview/. Mainly because trans coolers are built to run in high pressure environments, where as heater cores (which is not what you referenced, just fyi) and computer rads are designed for low pressure. 

I don't actually think your radiator is the sole weak point. But one thing at a time.


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## Okedokey

wolfeking said:


> I don't actually think your radiator is the sole weak point. But one thing at a time.



I agree, put fans on that baby.  Who doesn't put fans on a CPU watercooler.  If you have no fans, you gotta crank the pump.

In terms of viscosity?  Well I'm not sure.  I think a lower viscosity means it has a greater surface area to volume ratio, (this variable increases thermal conduction), but makes the solution harder to pump.  You may wanna double check, i quite often get the viscosity magnitude wrong (high/low).

But generally, you crank the pump and get high static pressure low speed fans.


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## Toast

I'm probably going to make a trip to a junkyard at some point to pick out a heatercore for this project. Seems like the most cost efficient way to go at this point.

I'll look for something with copper tubing. Seeing as I'm also going to be disconnecting the tubing anyway, I could add some new coolant. I'm wondering if there's something else which is a little better than antifreeze that will work for this.

Also, I'm not quite clear as to how cranking the pump for a fanless design would actually benefit the temps, as it seems like it would make more sense to allow the coolant to have the most time possible in the radiator.


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## Okedokey

Hoestly, you're wasting your time.  That rad is completely fine.  You just need move the air (being a very bad conductor of heat).


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## wolfeking

Without silver in the system, use a Biocide and strait distilled water. It is always the best coolant.  

Tansmission cooler! The heater core will not be a good option in the least. just make sure it is copper tubes (a simple look will tell you) and you should be good. Take it to a shop and have it flushed before using (same procedure with any used radiator)


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## Okedokey

Id be very suprised any copper will be available for cheap.


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## Toast

Exactly. I really lucked out with getting that block of copper for free. It's going to be hard to find a copper rad for a decent price- even at a junkyard.

It is what I'm after, however.


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## MyCattMaxx

Being that I am a cheap kind of guy, if it was my set-up at this point I would just put the fans to it and see which way the wind blows.
If it holds the temp at a point I could live with I'd run it til the radiator pukes.
But I'd make sure the radiator was outside my case where a leak won't kill the electronics.
That copper block will last longer than you will have the comp.
You could also put a fuel filter in the coolant line to catch some of the corrosion.


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## Okedokey

Yeah good luck with it.  I reckon you should test temps and see what is going on first.  You could actually set it up in the bios so that the pump only turns on at a certain temp.


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## MyCattMaxx

Okedokey said:


> Yeah good luck with it.  I reckon you should test temps and see what is going on first.  You could actually set it up in the bios so that the pump only turns on at a certain temp.


He can't do that with his pump set-up.
It doesn't run on 12V.


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## wolfeking

Okedokey said:


> Yeah good luck with it.  I reckon you should test temps and see what is going on first.  You could actually set it up in the bios so that the pump only turns on at a certain temp.


he is using a 110V (possibly 220) fountain pump. It has no interface with his BIOS at all.


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## Okedokey

A relay, some termal blocks and some cable is all that is really needed.  12V connected to one side of the relay (connected to the CPU fan pins), the 110V on the other side powering the pump.

Send 12V signal to relay, it latches, 110V connected. Then put pump speed on max (on the pump) and use the bios to ramp up speed with temperature above the cut-in threshold.

All stuff you can get from the dump.  Look for washing machines or other white goods that run of mains and convert down to 12VDC for safety.

Or, send a few bucks on heat-shrink and waterproof crush-terminals and consider a zener diode for polarity protectionp.

You can get them premade too.

http://ramwayrelay.en.alibaba.com/p...31746/DS902D_80A_110v_220v_12v_24v_relay.html


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## Toast

For the time being, I have to put this on hold. I have a few expenses coming up and I need to save every penny that I have. For now, I'm going to try building a fan shroud that will force the air to blow through the radiator, instead of dispersing around it.


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## MyCattMaxx

Be sure to let us know how the fan does. :good:


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## lemon07r

Just read through the whole thread. Awesome project cant wait to see the results! (And lol at the haters who stopped hating AFTER getting chastized). Makes me want to make my own liquid cooling system (but not custom, looks way to hard xD).


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