# Can overclocking damage a computer?



## Captain Kirk (Jun 13, 2013)

Hi computer people!

Can overclocking damage a computer?


If my computer was overclocked --

What would happen to a computer if you overclocked it to the maximum setting?

Could this be harmful?


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## jamesd1981 (Jun 13, 2013)

Over clocking can seriously damage your computer, if not done with care that is why manufacturers do not cover overclocking in there warranty.

The best way to start is to research other peoples overclocking results and settings using the same hardware you have, there are lots of tutorial videos on youtube etc.

A simple rule to follow is go in stages of clock up slightly then test stability, then go a bit higher etc.

Dont just go for one big jump say 3 ghz straight up to 4 ghz.

You can also get a lot of tools that will overclock your system for you.


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## salvage-this (Jun 13, 2013)

Yes you can damage your hardware by overclocking. Before we get more into how to do it safely, what hardware do you have?  CPU, Motherboard, CPU Cooler, PSU?


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## Laquer Head (Jun 13, 2013)

You can start a fire.. saves on heating bill... so thats a plus..I guess!


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## strollin (Jun 13, 2013)

It's not just severe overclocking that can damage your computer.  Even moderate OCing can shorten the lifespan of your CPU due to increased heat.  When you decide to OC, you are making a decision that faster performance is of higher priority to you than reliability or longevity.


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## Captain Kirk (Jun 14, 2013)

*is it a "fire hazard" to overclock your computer?*

Laquer Head,
Hey Dude!

Wow -- Nine inch nails is rad. I've got some of their songs!!

You know, it is rather cold in my room. It would be nice to warm things up a bit.
Thanks for your helpful hint!!!
Now I don't have to wear my gloves: I can warm my hands.
Bonfires are always cool to look at:
That's a PLUS+

Your reply made me laugh.
But seriously, is it a "fire hazard" to overclock your computer?

jamesd1981,
*Nice to meet Ya!*

Hey, I'm scottish. That's cool. Only a smiggin' though. Does that still count?

Scottland, I like your strategy. That's a great idea.
I didn't know that they had software that could do this!!!
Thanks for the info bro!

Be careful:
jamesd1981


> Over clocking can seriously damage your computer



Thanks James!!

salvage-this,
Hello!!

So you chose the name that you have because you like to try and salvage computers?
Or you just like it as a good handle?

Model
Dell Inspiron 5000e

Motherboard:
Compal Electronics, Inc. 440BX Desktop Reference Platform

CPU: 
Intel Pentium III E
Coppermine 0.18um Technology

CPU Cooler
Fan (Manufacturer's default that comes with the laptop)

Isn't PSU and CPU the same thing?
I know GPU and CPU is different.
So all computers have 3 chips: a GPU, CPU, and PSU?

strollin,
What's up Man?
Nice to see you again.

Interesting -- so "heat" is the cause of a shorter lifespan?

What do you mean by reliability?
Why won't your computer be reliable if you OC it?

I didn't know this:
strollin


> Even moderate OCing can shorten the lifespan



Captain Kirk


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## spirit (Jun 14, 2013)

You cannot overclock laptops Kirk. Really not a good idea. I seriously doubt overclocking is the cause of your dying laptop. 

And the PSU and CPU are not the same thing. The CPU is another name for your processor, and PSU is short for power supply unit. Completely different components.


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## salvage-this (Jun 14, 2013)

When I signed up here I wanted to turn an old Dell P4 PC into a mid level gaming PC.  That is the reason for Salvage-This.  I have been meaning to change it to what my Steam account is.  

On topic.  

I completely agree with Spirit.  No overclocking on a laptop.  Laptops do not have the proper cooling that is needed to deal with the increased temperatures.  

Most likely your system does not have the controls in the BIOS to overclock anyway.


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## spirit (Jun 14, 2013)

In this thread http://www.computerforum.com/222197-shut-off-suddenly-blue-screen-bad.html Kirk said he had a laptop which was experiencing problems, and I think we came to the conclusion that the motherboard was dying or something. So I don't think Kirk is interested in overclocking this laptop, I think he's just wondering if it might have been overclocked and if the overclock, had there been one, might have damaged the board.

In which case, the answer is 'unlikely'.

And yeah like Salvage said laptops shouldn't be overclocked because they don't have the appropriate cooling or airflow to cope.


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## salvage-this (Jun 14, 2013)

That makes sense.   I would guess that the laptop is just old and dying.  I would bet most of us would agree that P3s are more likely to be used as art than a processor now days  

@Captain Kirk

Are you looking to OC another PC or just looking for info on it?


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## Captain Kirk (Jun 15, 2013)

spirit,
Hello there!

First of all, yes, it is true that I did think that OC'ing "was" a possibility.
What I read about diagnostics was that they specified a technique to use:
Figuring out what is wrong with a computer is like the game of "clue".
Eliminate all the possibilities and you can narrow down the search!

So a laptop's hardware is not built to ALLOW oc'ing?
I read that years ago, there was no such thing as being ABLE to oc a computer.
Then computers were later built to be able to do it.
What your saying is:
All laptops cannot be oc'ed?

Thanks for the clarification about the CPU/PSU thing.
I thought it was the same thing!
Though, after I thought about it later, I considered that maybe they were in fact different.
I never knew they abreviated the word "power supply" as PSU: guess that is why I was confused.
Obviously I have heard of a  "power supply"  and know what that means.
The abreviation threw me.

So ALL laptops "can" be OC'ed?
However, the laptop case does not offer enough space to be able provide the extra cooling capabilities.

salvage-this,
What's up bro!

So what ever happened to the P4 PC?
Did you ever turn it into a mid level gaming PC, or did you just give up?
And did your plans for it involve OC'ing it?
You have a different computer now?

You think that only >PIII's are ABLE to "be" OC'ed (for laptops)?

I fully agree with you about the artwork because that's what happened to my last computer that died.
You just hang it from the wall like a painting.
And, after several dead computers, your room soon turns into an art museum!!

Even though, as Spirit indicated, there IS a very real possibility that the laptop had been OC'ed before I had gotten it.
Which would mean that its problems could be due to it having been OC'ed.
I wanted to eliminate all possibilities.

However, at the same time, Spirit is wrong. Because my purpose here is twofold:
Years ago, my friend told me about how if you OC'ed a computer that you could nearly double its power!!!
This sounded like a really exciting idea. I thought about it for a long time.
At the time, I was not confident that I knew enough about computers/OC'ing that I could be able to complete such a thing!

So, sadly, I must admit, I know very little about OC'ing; however, in the back of mind I have always been interested in doing this.
I just never knew how. And then just recently, I found out that there could be a possibility of harm brought on by OC.
I could not believe it. So, before giving up on this idea, and to never try this technique, I thought that I should at least first talk with people who know about it and who might have actually done it themselves, and experimented on their computer with OC'ing.

It is very intriguing.
But I must weigh the harmful side effects
(which I don't know what these are, but would like to know)
As soon as I find out what harm can be caused by OC'ing, then I will later ask how to OC a computer
So yes, I am interested in OC'ing a computer in the future when I get a desktop to experiement on.
Or I could pull a junker desktop out of storage and experiement on that if I wanted.

*A) What harm can be caused by OC'ing?*

*B) But just for starters, do you know how to look and see whether a computer is OC'ed or not?*

_Captain Kirk
USS Enterprise_


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## spirit (Jun 15, 2013)

Most laptops can't be overclocked because the BIOS doesn't allow it, for obviously reasons (cooling).

What harm can be caused by overclocking? Depends what you're overclocking, In most cases, if the power supply isn't up to the overclock, then you can potentially damage the power supply which can then lead to a lot of other stuff getting damaged.

If you're overclocking the CPU without sufficient cooling, or you're using too high a voltage, then the lifespan of the CPU can be reduced because of too much voltage and heat (but even still, by the time the CPU is dead it will be time to upgrade) but more importantly the motherboard can be damaged, as can the power supply.

If you're overclocking graphics cards, the same thing applies but GPUs tend to die an awful lot quicker than CPUs. If you have an unstable overclock on a graphics card, you can get weird screen artefacts such as tearing or lots of lines, or crashes in applications such as games which are dependent on the graphics card. 

If you're overclocking RAM, again, you can shorten the lifespan if you use too much voltage and the RAM gets too hot. 

Almost all unstable overclocks (whether it be CPU, RAM or GPUs) almost always result in system crashes and blue screens.

It's easy to tell if something has been overclocked or not. Just Google the stock speed of the part you're trying to determine has been overclocked or not, and then download CPU-Z or GPU-Z. CPU-Z will tell you the actual frequency of your CPU and RAM, and GPU-Z will tell you the actual frequency of your CPU and RAM.

Open up CPU-Z and GPU-Z, and then see what the frequencies are. If they are higher, then yeah stuff has been overclocked - possibly. Note though that on most modern Intel CPUs, a technology called Turbo Boost or Speed Step (I forget which now) will *safely* overclock the processor to slightly higher clockspeed/frequency when the CPU is nearing 100% usage. Usually it overclocks to around 500MHz-700MHz higher than the stock speed. AMD might have something like this too. 

Another method for determining if the CPU and RAM are overclocked is to look in the BIOS and see what the bus speed (I think? Not done any OC'ing in a while!) and multiplier are set to. If the multiplier is quite high, then there's a good chance something has been overclocked.


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## Virssagòn (Jun 15, 2013)

parts that can be damaged by overclocking:
- cpu
- mobo
- psu
- gpu (if you're overclocking the gpu)
- ram (if you're overclocking ram)

I'll explain you how even my grandma would understand.
If you're overclocking your cpu, it will draw more power then when it is not overclocked --> the psu can only handle a limit on power, if you go over the limit, you'll get laggs, freezes, blue screens,... and sometimes even kaboum (all parts will be damaged then...)
So be sure your psu can handle it.
Then there's the mobo, motherboards have different ways to provide the power to the cpu. With more expensive boards, you'll have more channels to provide power, so not all the power has to go through the same channel which would cause overhitting --> damage.
So be careful with that, you must have a decent mobo to do some overclocking, my motherboards is a bit crappy, so I don't overclock to high.
Then you got the cpu, he'll require more voltage to run on an higher speed. So you need to find the best voltage according to your overclock, if you provide less then needed, you'll get blue screens and such.
If you provide more then needed, this will not directly cause much damage, but will surely shorten the lifespan of your cpu.
A mild overclock will need no or only a bit more voltage --> no damage
An higher overclock will need more --> lifespan from the cpu reduces from 10 years to 8
Every cpu has a safe zone, in this safe zone you won't cause much damage, if you use more voltage and run your cpu daily on this voltage, this will cause more damage. 
--> The lifespan from your cpu will reduce very much

You can compare the voltage providing the cpu power with water, water will corrode its environment faster as it flows harder. More voltage --> faster damage --> less lifespan.

The gpu is the same principe as the cpu.

ram like spirit explained

You will not be able to oc laptop processor in normal laptops. (the most)


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## Captain Kirk (Jun 16, 2013)

spirit,
_Hi, good to see you!_

That's interesting that the power supply can be damaged.
The reason is, is that I thought that they were made SPECIFICALLY to be able to allot the needed power to all the different parts in your computer...

Wow!! -- you can overclock RAM?
Never heard about that!
Does this mean that you can increase your RAM's capabilities by 25%? 

So its "safer" to have an UNSTABLE system when you OC instead of having too much voltage.


A) How much can you overclock your RAM (in percentage or numbers (mb/gig's from original))?

B) What type of message on the blue screen crash would you expect to see (what would it say the "error" was)?

C) If you need more voltage for an OC, how do you provide this for the computer (another power supply with a higher capacity/cord)?

D) If you don't care about the computer and prefer to have the most high end ability that you can, what is the range for performance that you might expect from the maximum setting of OC (safety is turned off, and performance is maxed all the way up)? (150% of it original MHz)?

SmileMan 
Howdy partner, its nice to make your acquintance.

laggs, freezes?
Never heard of that. Wow.

ALL YOUR PARTS ARE DAMAGED?????????
what?
This does not sound good!!
*HIGH VOLTAGE, DO NOT TOUCH*

SmileMan


> More voltage --> faster damage --> less lifespan.


I like your example.
That really helps me to understand it better.

Which means that heat/voltage is the cause of computer hardware damage!!!

1) The better the board that you have, the more (%) that you can overclock it?

2) Since most of the newer GPU's have fans built stock into the card, then this means that its alright to max out the OC of your GPU right, if done in slow increments to the maximum setting?

3) What type of performance upgrade would you expect (in %) that a GPU could provide if OC'ed to its maximum setting?

4) It is not safe to OC "any" laptop, even the newer ones?

Captain Kirk
USS Enterprise


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## spirit (Jun 16, 2013)

No by having an unstable overclocking, not all of your parts are damaged - BUT, if your power supply gets damaged, there is a chance that can damage other components too.

To answer your questions: 

A) You can't overclock RAM as much as you can overclock graphics cards and processors, so I rarely bother doing it. My latest RAM overclock is only 48MHz above stock speeds. Whoopy-doo.

B) It depends on what overclock the blue screen is relating to. Hard question to answer. Basically though, if you get blue screens whilst you have stuff overclocked, you can almost be assured that the blue screen is related to your overclocks.

C) Kind of a hard question to answer. I'll answer it as if you had low-end components and wanted to overclock:

Firstly, if your power supply is a low quality one or doesn't quite have enough watts, upgrade your power supply. Also make sure you get a power supply with overcurrent and surge protection, just in case bad things were to happen.

Secondly, if your motherboard isn't great for overclocking and doesn't have great power phases, get one with more/better power phases, meaning the motherboard will be able to handle higher voltages much easier.

Thirdly, if your CPU cooling is not up to the job, get a better cooler so you can use more volts whilst keeping the temperature down.

All of that stuff applies to overclocking any components.

Remember not to go too crazy on the voltages regardless of how good your PSU, board and cooling are. 

D) Depends entirely on what you're overclocking and how you're cooling it. CPU: you can easily get more than a gigahertz overclock these days on most modern CPUs which can really boost performance. RAM: not so much, maybe 100MHz if you're lucky (not sure though), GPU: again, not so much.

Right, to answer the questions you asked smileMan:

1) Yes.

2) No. You still need to have good cooling on your graphics card. A single fan is not good enough. Preferably you want aftermarket cooling on your card. Some manufacturers sell cards with aftermarket cooling already installed, the best examples are probably MSI's Twin Frozr cards.

3) Maybe 10-20%, depending on what cooling you have and what the GPU is. Never done it though so that's just a rough guess.

4) Definitely not safe to overclock any laptop and I'm pretty sure I've said before that most laptops cannot even be overclocked anyway because the options for overclocking in the BIOS are not there.

More voltage = the ability to overclock higher, BUT also = more heat which = more damage and possibly = more crashes and instabilities.


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## salvage-this (Jun 16, 2013)

Man you write some crazy long posts 

What Spirit is trying to get across is that the features that are needed to OC a system from the BIOS are usually not included with laptops.  This is by design by the manufacturer because they do not want users messing with the clock speed/voltages of their system, possibly breaking it.  

OEM desktops (HP, Dell, etc...) are in the same category even though there are better cooling options that can be used in desktops.  The manufacturers do not want the average end user messing with the advanced features necessary to OC.  

Custom built PCs are generally more open to mess with.  Overclocking has become far more attainable for the average user in the past few generations, so motherboard manufacturers are leaving more boards open for overclocking rather than just having those features on the top tier boards only.


My P4 system was not converted to a gaming rig.  When I had the old Dell I did not know that overclocking was possible.  If I did I wouldn't be able to do it anyway.  It did not have the BIOS features necessary to OC.  I ended up giving it to a buddy that needed a home system for school work.  With the help of the users here, I built my own.  Most everything has been replaced in my current system, but I still have a few original parts left over.


I do no think that laptops are overclockable unless they have been designed to do so.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/ASUS-C90P-Overclockable-Gaming-Laptop/510/1

Your P3 system is not in that category.  What makes you think that it has been OCed?  If there are instabilities I can say with a fair amount of confidence that the system is just old and dying.  Frankly, I am surprised to see it last this long.  



I have OCed CPU, GPU and RAM before in my system.  I'll go through each.

**These numbers are from my experience in OCing systems.  This will change between generations and systems (Cooling, Power, Design)**

CPU: easiest to OC, biggest performance jump when OCed- most users get 600MHz to 1GHz OC.  Can be pushed further if there is proper cooling

GPU: Harder to OC and stability test.  Can be easier to damage after adding extra voltage for stability- most GPUs will see 50MHz to 100MHz without voltage tuning, 100MHz to +150MHz with voltage tuning.

RAM: OCing is hit or miss.  More based on Silicon Lottery than other chips.  Easier to damage if not in the recommended ranges for voltage.  Least performance benefit- might be able to change one setting up from what stock is. 1600 -> 1866 or CAS 9 -> CAS 8 or 7.  This is far more dependent on how good the module is.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

Most users will OC their CPU first, then GPU for better gaming performance (usually less than 10 fps benefit when OCed.  Depends on the game.) If they really want to tune their system, RAM can be pushed higher in clock speed, lower the timings, or a combination of both.


On to your last questions

1.  yes and no.  You are kinda getting into better power design and cleaner power delivery.  With a better board and PSU you are more likely to hit a certain clock speed at a lower voltage than with lower grade equipment.  Think about it in 2 ways, with a lower voltage (because of the better equipment) I could either...

     a.  have cooler temperatures and not have to spend as much on high end cooling

     b.  Have more headroom when trying to max out my CPU.  

lower grade motherboards and PSUs will force you to bloat the voltages necessary to attain a clock speed.  Think Peaks and dips in the power delivery.  

2. NO!  Always keep within heat  and voltage specifications. Generally you can OC to the top of stability at stock voltage and still be fine, but once you add overvolting to the mix a whole new set of dangers come into play.  

Look at the differences between these two cards

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127693
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134154

ECS is on the stock Printed Circuit Board (PCB) and has one blower fan cooler.  

MSI Lightening has a big twin fan cooler with heatpipes and a new PCB with better power design and cooling.  Made with overclocking in mind.  

The settings that might be attainable for the MSI card not only are out of the range of the ECS card, but it might also damage it.  The design will change the stability of those 2 cards drastically.  

3. Depends on the card and how hard you push it.  There is no clear answer to it.

4.  It is my opinion that no laptop should be overclocked.  Ever.


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## Captain Kirk (Jun 17, 2013)

*spirit,*
Howdy!

power supply! So that's the key.

A) doesn't seem worth it to OC RAM!!!!!!!!

B) example: blue screen error. Error caused by power supply.

C) power supply is the most importaint thing for an OC?

D) 1 Gig isn't bad really. But if you have a 4 Gig computer, how many games are there that require a 5 Gig system for their system requirements? None...

spirit


> More voltage = the ability to overclock higher, BUT also = more heat which = more damage and possibly = more crashes and instabilities.


I thought more crashes and instabilities was from "lack" of voltage to OC increase?

*salvage-this,*
Hi, Good to hear from you!!

Yes, I already figured out how to tell if a laptop is overclocked, as well as the technique to look on another computer.
Because of this, I have given up on the whole laptop diagnostics at this point in figuring out anymore about it.

At this moment, I am now considering what is involved in the overclocking process so that I use it when I get a desktop to practice on.

What does OEM mean? I have never heard of that type of abreviation. I may actually know what it is, if I heard it, but sometimes this abreviation thing gets me.
For example, the first time that someone said "OC", I said, "what?" and was about to ask them what OC meant -- then I figured it out.

Building your own computer is cheaper than buying a new one of the same caliber, but more expensive than a used one?

Your saying a P4 can't be overclocked? I thought that only P3's and below could not be OC'ed...

salvage-this


> I ended up giving it to a buddy that needed a home system for school work.


That's cool. For someone that planned on "salvaging" his computer, that was mighty kind of you!!!

Someday I want to build my own computer from scratch (not a laptop, though it would be good practice, and some fun -- but only after building a desktop first)!!

Asus cp90p: OC'ing at the touch of a button? Holy macarol! Are you serious? That's outrageous!!
What potential. CAN YOU EVEN IMAGINE THAT!!!!!

salvage-this


> What makes you think that it has been OCed?


Computer Diagnostics is like a game of "clue": narrow down the possibilities, and you will pinpoint the problem.
You know, "deductive reasoning"? That sort of thing...

2. I heard that if a game requires higher performance, then OC'ing will not help because your CPU is far beyond capacity and can't help anyway; but if the GPU is OC'ed, then NOW your gaming experience can be increased...

_Captain Kirk
USS Enterprise_


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## salvage-this (Jun 17, 2013)

OEM stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer.  PCs that come from companies like HP, Dell, Acer, Lenovo, Asus, etc... are all OEM systems.  

Building a PC has a bunch of benefits but it kinda depends on what kind of user you are and what your budget you are working with.  If you are planning on OCing, building is the only way to go.  Remember that OCing is taking a perfectly stable system and running it outside of spec in hopes that you can stabilize it with higher performance.  Pick your parts carefully and plan for the hardware requirements for overclocking.  

In general building will offer a few more benefits

better quality components
warranty on each component individually
customization

It might be lower cost but I usually think that the break even point is ~$500 for the tower.  Other users will have their view on where that line is but for me that is about where I see it.  

There are tons of other benefits, those are just the ones that came to mind

Whether or not a CPU can be overclocked is more defined by the motherboard, not the CPU.  The features that you need to OC are in the BIOS; think of it as the operating system of the motherboard.  I could take an i7 930 and toss it in one of the Dell Optiplexes at work as well as the EVGA FTW board that I have here at home.  The Dell motherboard will not allow for any overclocking while the EVGA board not only allows for overclocking, but has high end features that will enhance my chances of a high level OC on the chip.  


Deciding between CPU and GPU Overclocking when gaming is another area that does not have a clear answer.  Bottlenecks are different on each system.  Both CPU and GPU need to compliment each other.


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## spirit (Jun 17, 2013)

Captain Kirk said:


> *spirit,*
> Howdy!
> 
> power supply! So that's the key.
> ...


Yes, you need a good power supply for overclocking. The power supply is one of the most important components for overclocking along with the motherboard/PCB and cooling, of course - oh and a CPU which is preferably multiplier unlocked and overclocks well. 

Lack of power when overclocking can cause blue screens, yes.

When I said 'you can get a gigahertz overclock easily' I was talking about overclocking the CPU. For example, my i5 2500K was stock clocked at 3.3GHz, but I overclocked it to 4.3GHz which is a gigahertz overclock. You can usually go further than that too with the 2500K.

Crashes and instabilities can be caused by either having too little voltage OR too much voltage.


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## Jamebonds1 (Jun 17, 2013)

About Power Supply, never buying mult rail as overclock tool.  It is your risk of blue screen or shut down.  It can damage bios if shut down improper often, not so many happened.  Overclock laptop?  not worth it, unless it is highly custom laptop or something.  I have seem laptop overclock but not the better cooling.  I would only do that with desktop.  I made mistake that I bought triple rail power supply while I overclocked my old i3 540 to 5 GHz.  I know, i'm insane 

btw my old family from scotland.


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## Captain Kirk (Jun 18, 2013)

salvage-this
.How's Ya?

"OEM" -- okay, that makes sense. So what your saying is that you have to 'custom' build it. This is the BEST build, and is the only way to OC.

It would be nice to build your computer with ALL  of the "best" components that are on the market -- and it costs more than three times as much as $500, then I would then plan on getting on 1 component at a time. However, the building of this computer would be very slow -- that's the down side. So what do you think a build your own desktop with all the best hardware on the market would cost -- about $1000 (for just the tower)?

salvage-this


> Both CPU and GPU need to compliment each other.


What does this mean -- if you OC one then you MUST OC the other?

spirit,
Yo Brother.

PCB? What is that?
I have never heard of a PCB...
Is this an importaint peice of hardware in a computer?
Is it essential to a computer's function, meaning that you could LEAVE IT OUT if you wanted.

spirit


> a CPU which is preferably multiplier unlocked


_Is this a good thing?_ I have never run across the "multiplier unlocked" expression before...

1) Does OC'ing the PSU increase the MHz capabilities of the computer?

2) Does OC'ing the CPU increase the MHz capabilities of the computer?

3) What is the difference between OC'ing the CPU and the PSU?

4) Spirit, can OC'ing damage the bios, or do you think it is the software/hardware he was using (mult rail as overclock tool)?

A) If you OC a computer, and shut it down improperly often, do you run the risk of damaging your computer (such as Bios)?

B) [I don't think that if you built a laptop from scratch that it would be able to have the proper cooling]
When building a laptop from scratch, is the case big enough to accomidate the implementation of a custom proper cooling system sufficient for an OC?

spirit


> Crashes and instabilities can be caused by either having too little voltage OR too much voltage.


Sounds like OC'ing is an EXACT science!!!!

Jamebonds1,
Nice to meet you.

I'm part scottish. That's cool. But I'm not a full blood scott, only a smiggin'. That still counts right?

*damage bios?* 
Wow -- this doesn't sound good!!!!
Is this what happened to you?

Jamebonds1


> never buying mult rail as overclock tool.


Your talking about software? Oh -- its hardware.
_And, are you sure that it was the "mult rail" (whatever that is) and not a matter of the difference between the OC setting and the amount of voltage?_
As Spirit said, it seems to be an exact science: OC'ing.
Wouldn't a "high end" power supply such as the triple rail be an excellent fit for an OC?

5 Gigs? (CPU?)
Yeaaaaaaa!!!! Whoo hooo!!!!!!!!!!
I can't wait to try that!

Captain Kirk
USS Enterprise


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## salvage-this (Jun 18, 2013)

I'll update this with the answers to your questions when I get home from work.   For now take a look at the 101s that we have.

http://www.computerforum.com/13239-cpu-101-needs-updating.html

Look over the definitions section.  If you understand how a CPU gets its speed, you can understand how to tweak it.

http://www.computerforum.com/16346-overclocking-101-needs-updating.html

Take a look at everything but section 2 and 7.

They need to be updated to include newer parts so do not pay attention to the hardware recommendations.  The basic info still applies today.  Newer CPUs are just easier to work with.  We can help bridge the gap there.

I'll be back on later with more info.


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## spirit (Jun 18, 2013)

Captain Kirk said:


> spirit,
> Yo Brother.
> 
> PCB? What is that?
> ...


A PCB is a printed circuit board, so it's like a motherboard or your graphics card itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printed_circuit_board read that. 



> spirit
> 
> _Is this a good thing?_ I have never run across the "multiplier unlocked" expression before...


Yes. Means overclocking the CPU is easier. The Intel K series chips (i5 2500K, 3570K, 4670K, i7 2600K, 2700K, 3770K, 4770K, 3930K), Intel X series chips (i7 975X, 980X, 3960X), AMD's Black Edition chips (Phenom II X3, X4, X6) and AMD's FX chips (FX-4xxx, 6xxx and 8xxx) are all multiplier unlocked.



> 1) Does OC'ing the PSU increase the MHz capabilities of the computer?


You can't overclock a PSU.



> 2) Does OC'ing the CPU increase the MHz capabilities of the computer?


Increases the MHzs of the CPU, yes. Anything else? No. 



> 3) What is the difference between OC'ing the CPU and the PSU?


You can't overclock a PSU.



> 4) Spirit, can OC'ing damage the bios, or do you think it is the software/hardware he was using (mult rail as overclock tool)?


Overclocking can damage the motherboard, preventing it from booting/working which can prevent you from getting into the BIOS, but it can't really 'damage' the BIOS itself and if it somehow does, it's easy enough to reset.



> A) If you OC a computer, and shut it down improperly often, do you run the risk of damaging your computer (such as Bios)?


Like always, the only things you risk damaging when shutting down improperly are your operating system and possibly your hard drive. Shutting down improperly is not a big deal anyway.



> B) [I don't think that if you built a laptop from scratch that it would be able to have the proper cooling]
> When building a laptop from scratch, is the case big enough to accomidate the implementation of a custom proper cooling system sufficient for an OC?


You can't really build them yourself. Let's just leave it at this: *laptops cannot be overclocked*.



> spirit
> 
> Sounds like OC'ing is an EXACT science!!!!


It needs to be done carefully and you need to stress test whatever you have overclocked, so yeah. 



> I'm part scottish. That's cool. But I'm not a full blood scott, only a smiggin'. That still counts right?


You're talking to an Englishman here.


----------



## StrangleHold (Jun 19, 2013)

Pretty simply, basically the two things that can kill components is voltage and heat.


----------



## salvage-this (Jun 19, 2013)

Building a performance PC doesn't really have a maximum budget.  I'm sure that I could pick the parts to go over 10,000 if I really wanted to get ridiculous.  That is way over doing it.  Here is how I would lay it out

The things that you can not skimp on for a gaming OC system are CPU, motherboard, GPU and PSU and cooling

CPU ~ $200
Motherboard ~ $130- $180
GPU ~ probably around $300 could be less or more depending on budget
PSU ~ $70 to $150 depending on the rest of the system
CPU Cooler ~ $30 to $100

Going off of that you are right around $730 for the base system with no drives, RAM, OS, Optical Drive or case to put it in.  You can definitely make it for less than that but run it by us here to see if everything is good quality before jumping on anything.  

Having a balanced system is all about not going too high end in one area but not in another.  I'll give you an example

This CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116408

Paired with this GPU 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121724

is really imbalanced.  The CPU will max out it's processing power way before the titan will.  This means that you will have bad gaming performance because the CPU is bottlenecking the GPU from processing at it's full potential.

Over buying a CPU is not necessary a bottleneck, but it does limit your GPU if you are on a budget

This
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116491

paired with this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130808

That pair will make it so that the CPU has enough processing power but it is not fully utilized.  The GPU does not have a lot of processing power but it is running at full capacity.  I could have bought a $300 processor and spent $500 on a new GPU and had way better performance because it was a better balance.  It has nothing to do with what is OCed or not.  It's picking parts that have similar performance to create a good system.  


I'm certainly not a PSU guru but a multi rail PSU can have problems with the voltage being "locked" on a rail that does not need all of the power available to it.  So there is a chance that in a triple rail system you have your CPU that needs more wattage than what the rail allows.  The PSU can't deliver the power so you have crashes and instability due to bad power delivery.  

It's really personal preference but I recommend a good single rail PSU for a gaming/OC system.


----------



## Jamebonds1 (Jun 19, 2013)

Yeah.  That day I overclock at improper voltage and clock, it damaged BIOS data.  Lucky I have dualBIOS.  Like Neo live again in Matrix movie 

The reason why I don't recommend triple rail power supply is because it is not the better choose for overclocker and gaming.  If there are two 100 watt rail.  There are two video card at about 75 watt each and CPU use 50 watt.  What happening?  Power Supply fail and shut down.  Same to me when I overclock too much highest and cause my PSU to shut down.


----------



## StrangleHold (Jun 19, 2013)

I prefer single rails myself. But your description of multi rails is aliitle off. Plus the rails will have more then 100W, thats just 8.3 amps. Were talking 500W and above quality supplies. They will have anywhere from 15 and up amps on each rail, even at just 15 amps thats 180W. There are two types of multi rail. A true multi rail and a single rail thats power is divided into multi rail. But either way, the CPU rail is isolated, nothing else runs off it. A good power supply will even have the PCIe running off different rails.


----------



## spirit (Jun 19, 2013)

Overclocking to 5.0GHz requires some great cooling and a great motherboard too (if you want to do it properly). Something in the 4.5GHz range is more achievable than 5.0GHz.

Never use software to overclock, only the BIOS.


----------



## Captain Kirk (Jun 19, 2013)

spirit,
Hello.

The PCB is the actual board itself before the components are put on it and before it is called a mobo; or, it can be any other "card" before the tiny components have been sautered to it, such as the GPU card or the RAM card?

spirit


> You can't overclock a PSU.


That's strange. I thought just about everything could be overclocked. That article I looked at said there was literally a "mountain" of devices that could be OC'ed, but that we can only cover a few of this list... Therefore I assumed that the PSU was one of them.

spirit


> but it can't really 'damage' the BIOS itself and if it somehow does, it's easy enough to reset.


Hmmm... Which would be done by? Reinstalling ANOTHER bios?

You can damage your OS and HD by not shutting down properly? By means of a hard (instant) shut off, for example?

People are not able to build laptops from scratch?

When you say stress test, you mean to do this with a software program?
This tests how much voltage the hardware component can handle?
I've heard of something like that.
Intel is faster, but AMD can handle higher voltage for a longer amount of time.

I'm more english than I am scottish, so don't feel like your a stranger here!

StrangleHold,
good to see you again.

Yes, it would seem so.
If my memory serves me correctly, I think that's what I read.
Now I know for sure what the main cause for hardware failure is!

StrangleHold,


> a single rail thats power is divided into multi rail.


Interesting -- I didn't know that you could do this!!

salvage-this,
Howdy bro!

Are you serious about the $10,000 thing -- or was that a joke? 
Is such a thing even possible?

Oh my gosh, a 6 Gig GPU -- yea, now THAT's what I'm talking about!!!!!!!!!!1
oh, its $1,000 dollars.
You weren't joking about the price of the best hardware were you?

$50 for a chip. That's awesome! This is the CPU, right?
I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the CPU and PSU
I guess the mobo isn't the PSU...
That would make things a whole lot easier if it was, because then I would understand hardware a bit better.
_That's right, PSU is the "power supply"..._

What your saying is to not have one really high end peice of hardware and then one low end peice of hardware.
That you are better off with all "medium" end hardware than to have an IMBALANCE?


> The rist of component failure increases if poor/average components are used in the system


Obviously, in the example that you gave, the computer would still run without any problems, and your computer wouldn't have any problems.
So why would you not want to do this? Would there be problems or something?
Oh, you mean for purposes of OC'ing specifically, right?

Oh, you won't be able to reach the hardware's performance capabilities, thus limiting the ability of the top end hardware that you have.
I see. That makes sense. Now I understand this part.

Holyc rapoli, a cpu chip for $1,000 dollars. You weren't joking man!
So if its a 6 core processor, then that means that it has the ability of a 6X3.3 GigHz = 20 GigHz computer? (assumming it has all the neccessary RAM)

A 1 Gig GPU for $64 -- not bad? What your saying here is that your CPU can accomidate the ability of a much higher GPU, and since 3D graphics is most of the gaming experience, the GPU is the most importain component in this process.

In your opinion a single rail PSU is better than a triple rail?
But techniquely, a triple rail is better?
OR are they the same; and it is merely the choice between two equally matched components such as AMD and Intel?

salvage-this


> So there is a chance that in a triple rail system you have your CPU that needs more wattage than what the rail allows. The PSU can't deliver the power so you have crashes and instability due to bad power delivery.


From your viewpoint, the single rail certainly does seem much better!
But is this only because "you" don't know how to adjust the settings, or maybe have read the manual?
-- *or is this problem due to the way that the hardware itself is manufactured?*

_Thanx for those links!_
I hit the motherload here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jamebonds1,
Hi!

Jamebonds1


> Lucky I have dualBIOS.


"Dual" Bios -- you have 2 bios's?
Is such a thing possible? How did you do this? Is this is what is now coming out with the new systems?

 Captain Kirk
USS Enterprise


----------



## spirit (Jun 19, 2013)

Captain Kirk said:


> spirit,
> Hello.
> 
> The PCB is the actual board itself before the components are put on it and before it is called a mobo; or, it can be any other "card" before the tiny components have been sautered to it, such as the GPU card or the RAM card?


Basically yeah.



> spirit
> 
> That's strange. I thought just about everything could be overclocked. That article I looked at said there was literally a "mountain" of devices that could be OC'ed, but that we can only cover a few of this list... Therefore I assumed that the PSU was one of them.


CPU, RAM and GPU are the three things which can overclocked. Nothing else really.



> spirit
> 
> Hmmm... Which would be done by? Reinstalling ANOTHER bios?


No, by resetting the existing BIOS using the jumper on the motherboard itself.



> You can damage your OS and HD by not shutting down properly? By means of a hard (instant) shut off, for example?


I'm talking about holding the power button in, but it doesn't damage anything if you don't do it regularly. 



> People are not able to build laptops from scratch?


Consumers can't easily, no. Easier to get a company to do it for you.

I am sure I've told you that multiple times? 



> When you say stress test, you mean to do this with a software program?
> This tests how much voltage the hardware component can handle?
> I've heard of something like that.


Yes, something like Prime95 will put the CPU at 100% load for long periods of time which tests stability.



> Intel is faster, but AMD can handle higher voltage for a longer amount of time.


Wrong, especially the second part. You can't really go round saying 'one can handle voltage better than the other!' etc. It depends on all sorts of facotrs.



> Are you serious about the $10,000 thing -- or was that a joke?
> Is such a thing even possible?


Of course it's possible to spend tends of thousands. Whether you should or not is another debate.



> Oh my gosh, a 6 Gig GPU -- yea, now THAT's what I'm talking about!!!!!!!!!!1


Not really gonna happen with any CPU unless you're using something ridiculuos like liquid nitrogen to cool it. As of yet, 5.0GHz is a bit tricky, but can be achieved. 4.5GHz is more achievable. 



> I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the CPU and PSU
> I guess the mobo isn't the PSU...


I think you should do some reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cpu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherboard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_power_supply

They're all completely different components. Think of the CPU as the 'brain' (calculations and stuff), the power supply as the 'heart' (powering the system) and I'm not sure what part of the human body the motherboard would be. Skeleton maybe.



> _That's right, PSU is the "power supply"..._


Yes.



> What your saying is to not have one really high end peice of hardware and then one low end peice of hardware.


Yes in most scenarios. It's important to have balanced hardware. Some components can be more powerful than others, for example in gaming systems I always recommend you spend the most on the graphics card, so the graphics card would end up being the most powerful component of the system probably, but what you don't want is combinations such as a 1000W PSU powering a really high end motherboard and lots of RAM and a massive hard drive but also powering a very weak CPU and a mediocre GPU. The GPU and CPU would be bottlenecking the system in this scenario. 



> Obviously, in the example that you gave, the computer would still run without any problems, and your computer wouldn't have any problems.
> So why would you not want to do this? Would there be problems or something?


Assuming you're talking about bottlenecks, then you will be hindering performance by not having balanced hardware.

Here is a great video about bottlenecks which I recommend you watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGdo75gasaQ 



> Oh, you won't be able to reach the hardware's performance capabilities, thus limiting the ability of the top end hardware that you have.
> I see. That makes sense. Now I understand this part.


Pretty much, yeah.



> Jamebonds1,
> Hi!
> 
> Jamebonds1
> ...


Some motherboards, especially Gigabyte boards, have two BIOSes. You can't add BIOSes, you're stuck with however many you have.


----------



## salvage-this (Jun 20, 2013)

I really think you would benefit from learning to build and how the parts work together before we go OCing a sysem.  

Take a look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIJx6Y3tofg

Yes I wasn't joking.  You can spend a lot on a PC if you really wanted to.  Building a system for 10k would be dumb.  Huge waste of money.  

I'm not saying always get middle of the road components.  Get components that fit in your price range and compliment each other.  Bottlenecks happen in systems of all price ranges.  

Most people just say what CPU they have then the clock speed.  Like Intel 4770k @ 4.7GHz, FX 6300 @ 4.2GHz. Not the total GHz of all combines cores.


Here is why I don't like to use multi rail systems in gaming PCs 

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NOX/Coolbay_HX_APEX_700W/images/psulabel.jpg

for this PSU you have 4 +12v Rails 

+12v1 = 18a
+12v2 = 18a
+12v3 = 18a
+12v4 = 20a

If you ran one GTX 680 off of one of the +12v rails the system would not run.  The GTX 680 needs 38a on the +12v rail.  On that PSU if all of the +12v rails were combined on a single rail, it would have enough power.  (See where it says 600w 50a on all of the +12v rails combined)  

Having 2 (+12v1 & +12v2) can be ok depending on the PSU, but I would be weary of PSUs with 3 or more +12v rails


----------



## Jamebonds1 (Jun 20, 2013)

salvage-this said:


> I really think you would benefit from learning to build and how the parts work together before we go OCing a sysem.
> 
> Take a look at this
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIJx6Y3tofg
> ...



That is point i'm talk about.  BTW i kicked out my thermaltake triple rail!


----------



## salvage-this (Jun 20, 2013)

I knew that is what you were getting at.  Kinda hard to convey that point without doing the calculations.  Hopefully that will lay it out so he can understand it.


----------



## StrangleHold (Jun 20, 2013)

salvage-this said:


> The GTX 680 needs 38a on the +12v rail. On that PSU if all of the +12v rails were combined on a single rail, it would have enough power. (See where it says 600w 50a on all of the +12v rails combined)
> 
> Having 2 (+12v1 & +12v2) can be ok depending on the PSU, but I would be weary of PSUs with 3 or more +12v rails


 
It doesnt work that way. 

The GTX 680 doesnt need 38 amps. You do know thats 465W. That rating is for the entire average system, not just the GPU. A 680 under load pulls around 165 to 190W depending on the cards voltage and clocks by itself. The slot on the board can provide from 75 to over a 100W depending on the board. This comes from the 24 pin board power connector. The PCIe power connectors a 6 pin gives 75W and a 8 pin gives 150W. The 24 pin and PCIe are on different rails. 

If the supply has 600W and 50 amps total on the 12V rail. It would power a 680 fine.


----------



## salvage-this (Jun 20, 2013)

I was hoping that you would correct me if I was wrong.  PSUs are not really my specialty.

It did seem rather high for a 680 but I was looking at what the spec sheet said on newegg 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130924

but if that is system usage then that makes quite a bit more sense.   

Just for my understanding,  is there a standard to how the rails are split on a multi rail system? or is it whatever the manufacturer decides?  

Do manufacturers split the power up on different rails so they can use a higher gauge wire and not have any problems with overloading the wires?


----------



## Captain Kirk (Jun 20, 2013)

spirit,
Howdy there!

You can't run a 6 Gig GPU without liquid nitrogen?
You mean in general, or to reach its full performance?

Man, with liquid nitrogen, then you'd be able to OC everything on the computer and not have to worry about any damage or bad instability side effects!!!
That'd be great...

A Stress test IS a benchmark, or this is something completely different altogether?
Do you need to perform a stress test or perform a benchmark before you OC?
OR, if you perform a stress test or and a benchmark, then you wont damage your computer when you OC?

You can OC the board?

Yea, I understood the basic concept before, but now I see how you can apply this to ALL components in a computer.
EXCELLENT strategy for building a computer!!!
So getting the "best" that you get in a specific peice of hardware in not always the best and, in a sense, can be rendered useless.
Good advice!!

But what would happen IF for some reason you did run into a bottleneck situation -- possibly unintentionally -- they said that you can "over stress" the GPU, for example. 
Is it bad/or can hurt damage a specific peice of hardware if you "over stress" it?
In a GPU for example, this could be caused by turning up/not turning up the settings all the way. 
Or would it only just cause a system instability situation?

salvage-this,
Yo, what'd up?

What -- you don't think it would be better to buy a computer than to buy a brand new car?
Come on.

Hey, I like taking the bus...

When I build my own computer, I am going to go with Intel and AMD.
I heard Intel had a better benchmark than AMD...

_But a 6 core 3.3 GigHz can do the work of a 20 GigHz!_
If somehow (don't ask me how it would be possible, its just theory/a question about computer power) the system requirements for a new program was 7 GigHz, could a 6 core 3.3 GigHz be able to run it?

I don't really know what that picture means, except the part about, "do not remove cover" caught my attention.
What I do know is that I don't see how the multi rail is any different, because each rail cannot produce more than 240W.
Therefore it doesn't seem like there would be a problem.
It sounds like its all about properly configuring the settings!!
It don't maybe I'm wrong.
Correct me on error, if there is one.

So your saying that a multi rail would be more liable to have a power surge, or extra voltage mishap?
OR, in the reverse spectrum, to never even have enough power to run your computer? (so no computer!!)?

What about someone who was an EXPERT at multirail systems AND their settings?
Would they say the same thing?
Or are we back to the preference thing again.

Note: I too prefer a single rail system. It sounds simplier and easier. And frankly, therefore better, as far as I'm concerned.
But it seems like there MUST be some "kind" of benefit, surely, for having a multirail system?

Jamebonds1,
Good day to you.

And now someone that even has a triple rail does not want it in their system anymore?
How good can a triple rail system be?

StrangleHold.
*[MultiRail Expert]*

Its good to have a MultiRail Expert onboard here.
There seems to be a bit of confusion on this subject.

And, I was "just" wondering WHAT an expert would say about such a situation...

Captain Kirk
USS Enterprise


----------



## Okedokey (Jun 20, 2013)

Strangle beat me to it.  Plus almost all PSUs are technically single rail (1 transformer coil).

The issue is complex and depends on the design standards, but the multiple rail vs single rail argument is almost completely nonsense.  The key factor is quality and design standards applied.

The only other thing that I would add to Strangle's list of issues with overclocking is electronmigration.


----------



## spirit (Jun 20, 2013)

Captain Kirk said:


> spirit,
> Howdy there!
> 
> You can't run a 6 Gig GPU without liquid nitrogen?
> You mean in general, or to reach its full performance?


You can't even really get them to 6.0GHz at all regardless of what cooling you're using. And yes, I know people have gotten AMD FX-8120s to insane speeds but it probably wasn't stable. 

Like I've said, 4.5-4.8GHz is probably the best you can get with most well-priced coolers. 5.0GHz is possible if you're using water cooling. Anything above about 5.2GHz is seriously pushing it. 5.0GHz is probably pushing it a bit.



> Man, with liquid nitrogen, then you'd be able to OC everything on the computer and not have to worry about any damage or bad instability side effects!!!
> That'd be great...


No because like I've said, not everything can be overclocked. 



> A Stress test IS a benchmark, or this is something completely different altogether?
> Do you need to perform a stress test or perform a benchmark before you OC?
> OR, if you perform a stress test or and a benchmark, then you wont damage your computer when you OC?


A benchmark will measure the performance of your hardware and usually give you a score (to put it very simply), but a stress test tests your system for stability. You usually run stress tests for hours and hours and hours or until your PC crashes. 



> You can OC the board?


Not really. You might have been able to when you used to have to OC on the Front Side Bus, but the FSB is gone and dead now, so don't worry about that (unless you intend to overclock anything which isn't multiplier unlocked).



> Yea, I understood the basic concept before, but now I see how you can apply this to ALL components in a computer.
> EXCELLENT strategy for building a computer!!!
> So getting the "best" that you get in a specific peice of hardware in not always the best and, in a sense, can be rendered useless.
> Good advice!!


That's the strategy most people use.  Put the money where it's needed the most.



> But what would happen IF for some reason you did run into a bottleneck situation -- possibly unintentionally -- they said that you can "over stress" the GPU, for example.
> Is it bad/or can hurt damage a specific peice of hardware if you "over stress" it?
> In a GPU for example, this could be caused by turning up/not turning up the settings all the way.
> Or would it only just cause a system instability situation?


Well if in order to get more performance out of your GPU you overclocked it and you didn't do it properly then yeah, you could damage it.

But otherwise, all bottlenecks do is slow you down. They don't tend to 'overwork' any piece of hardware, or the piece of hardware which is bottlenecking you. 



> What -- you don't think it would be better to buy a computer than to buy a brand new car?
> Come on.


Would you really spend thousands or even tens of thousands on a PC which is going to be outdated in a year? Technology moves along so quickly. For example, I purchased my i5 2500K in March 2012 (one of the last 2500Ks, I admit), and then in April 2012 it was replaced by the 3570K and now in June 2013 the 3570K has been replaced by the 4670K. So my 2500K is two generations behind and I've owned it for what - 15 months? 



> When I build my own computer, I am going to go with Intel and AMD.
> I heard Intel had a better benchmark than AMD...


At stock, yes, the Intel chips are faster, but both can be overclocked. Although it's true that yes, 9 times out of 10 the Intel chips are faster, they are more expensive too. 



> _But a 6 core 3.3 GigHz can do the work of a 20 GigHz!_


No. It's the still the same 'GHz' (correct term is 'frequency' or 'clockspeed' by the way) as what it says on the box or whatever UNLESS it's been overclocked.

Let's take my i5 2500K for example. It's quad-core processor (so it has 4 cores), which is stock clocked at 3.3GHz. It's running at 3.3GHz, not 4x3.3GHz (13.2GHz). It's a common mistake people make with multi-core processors and often a technique salespeople use to sell chips. 13.2GHz sounds a lot better than 3.3GHz, doesn't it?  

The other mistake which is often made is that people compare multi-core processors purely on their clockspeed. 'Oh, this 3.3GHz quad-core is DEFINITELY slower than this 4.0GHz dual-core because it runs at 700MHz less,' there's so many factors which determine speed, so you can't base what you're saying on one factor. 



> If somehow (don't ask me how it would be possible, its just theory/a question about computer power) the system requirements for a new program was 7 GigHz, could a 6 core 3.3 GigHz be able to run it?


No for the reasons I said above.


----------



## StrangleHold (Jun 20, 2013)

salvage-this said:


> I was hoping that you would correct me if I was wrong. PSUs are not really my specialty.
> 
> It did seem rather high for a 680 but I was looking at what the spec sheet said on newegg
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130924
> ...


 
Like Okedokey said. Most multi rails on the market are really single rails split off in to multi . The amps listed on the rails are just the max that (one) can pull. You dont add them together to get a total for the 12V rail. Like say a 600W with 50 amps with four 18 amp rails. It really only has 50 amps total, each rail is just limited to 18 amp pull. Plus most quality PSU split up the components on the rails. Like the 4/8 pin CPU power connector will be on a rail by itself, then the molex/SATA power connectors on one then the PCIe power connectors on another.


----------



## salvage-this (Jun 20, 2013)

Is there a way to sell what connectors are on what rails?


----------



## StrangleHold (Jun 20, 2013)

Most manufactures dont list it, but I have seen a few that does. Usually if someome like Hardwaresecrets/Hardocp/pcper or like jonnyguru does a review of it, they might list it.


----------



## Captain Kirk (Jun 21, 2013)

Okedokey,
Nice to see you once again.

Thanks for the PSU clarification.
It makes more sense now.
Mulitrail sounds like some kind of system that they just wanted to try out and see what happens.

electronmigration?
(Choke. Cough, Cough)

This does not sound good!
Can this lead to damage of your computer?
And electronmigration is ONLY caused by OC'ing, or it can happen any time?

_spirit,_
Hi there!

1. What I meant was, can the GPU, CPU, and RAM be OC'ed by upwards of a 50% increase if LNL is used?

2. A benchmark score is a number indicating the max speed of your CPU?

3. A stress test is how well your computer can handle "heat"? 
(Which means that if you ran a stress test before you OC'ed, you'd have a general idea of how well your computer would handle an OC?)

4. So then why do they sell 6 Gig GPU's if you can ONLY use 5 Gig's of its performance? 
Doesn't the manufacturer seem to be creating a bottlenecking situation right off the get go?

I Guess the board is one less thing that I have to clock then.
So it looks like here that there are really only 2 things that you can overclock: the GPU and CPU, that will make any difference.

Oh Yea, I forgot about computer technolgy being outdated every 6 months.
There IS "that" issue!

spirit


> yes, the Intel chips are faster


That's what I thought.
Which means that potentially, Intel chips are better than AMD for OC'ing?

spirit


> 'GHz' (correct term is 'frequency' or 'clockspeed' by the way)


Yea, I've heard that too.
But its kind of confusing.
Its easier just to think of it as CPU speed.
And I know you said there are a lot of other "hidden" types of speed, but wouldn't the COMMON DENOMINATOR still "amount" to a result of CPU, given in the number indicated?

Captain Kirk


> the system requirements for a new program was 7 GigHz, could a 6 core 3.3 GigHz be able to run it?


That's what I thought.
I was just checking.

StrangleHold,
Hello.

Okay, so the number indicated on the box it the TOTAL amount when added "together"
So if you split them, then you would divide this number by 3.

salvage-this,
Hi.

salvage-this


> Is there a way to sell what connectors are on what rails?


I don't think it would matter.
All of your components would still be getting power
And you know what voltage the rail has (total) when you looked at the box, so you know the multirail system will run all of your components...

Captain Kirk


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## tech savvy (Jun 21, 2013)

spirit said:


> *You cannot overclock laptops* Kirk. Really not a good idea. I seriously doubt overclocking is the cause of your dying laptop.
> 
> And the PSU and CPU are not the same thing. The CPU is another name for your processor, and PSU is short for power supply unit. Completely different components.



Please don't miss led this person. Yes, most laptops can NOT be OCed, and yes, his laptop can NOT be OCed, but there are laptops that can be OCed. I know that MSI, ASUS, and a few others allow the user to OC if they desire.


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## Okedokey (Jun 21, 2013)

The ATX design standards will tell you which 'rail' will power which component, but as a general rule, 12V_1 is CPU and the rest is the rest (except where it has EPS design).

Its quicker to forget all of that and simply go with the logic that you get what you pay for, go with quality brand, 5 year warranty, single 12V distribution, active pfc, large cooling fan and so on.  Forget the other nonsense as multirail designs can be good quality, but not better.


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## spirit (Jun 21, 2013)

tech savvy said:


> Please don't miss led this person. Yes, most laptops can NOT be OCed, and yes, his laptop can NOT be OCed, but there are laptops that can be OCed. I know that MSI, ASUS, and a few others allow the user to OC if they desire.



That's true, but yeah I meant to say that his laptop couldn't be overclocked sorry. 

'Generally speaking', it's best not to overclock laptops because of the obvious heat issues, and most manufactures don't allow it anyway.


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## Okedokey (Jun 21, 2013)

spirit said:


> That's true, but yeah I meant to say that his laptop couldn't be overclocked sorry.
> 
> 'Generally speaking', it's best not to overclock laptops because of the obvious heat issues, and most manufactures don't allow it anyway.



I would agree with your original comment actually.  You may be able to overclock laptops, but to get any noticable improvement, you are risking serious overheating issues.


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## Captain Kirk (Jun 22, 2013)

tech savvy,
Thanks for the reply!

tech savvy


> his laptop can NOT be OCed, but there are laptops that can be OCed. I know that MSI, ASUS, and a few others allow the user to OC if they desire



Thanks tech savvy, that's just what I needed:
A expert that can give me details with clarification.
That answers my question.
Now I can go on to other matters about OC'ing.

*Glad you made it tech savvy!!!*

Okedokey
Hi!

Okedokey


> .Forget the other nonsense as multirail designs can be good quality, but not better.


I appreciate all the expert advice here, this is really helping.
You have done it; you were able to make a confusing subject summed up into terms I can understand.
Its good to hear expert's opinion about how THEY feel about certain hardware/ideas to get a better understanding about the subject.

Okedokey


> but to get any noticable improvement, you are risking serious overheating issues.


What I was trying to ask Spirit was if a OC'able laptop such as a P4+ could accomidate the ability of a custom cooler system that could allow for optimal OC'ing.
Maybe a more direct approach from an expert like you might be capable of answer this?
You seem to have a way of being able to fully answer my questions so that I don't have any more questions about it.

spirit,
_Hey bro._

1. Should you conduct tests first BEFORE you OC a computer?

2. Do you need special software inorder to OC?

3. HOW do you OC?

Captain Kirk


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## spirit (Jun 22, 2013)

Captain Kirk said:


> What I was trying to ask Spirit was if a OC'able laptop such as a P4+ could accomidate the ability of a custom cooler system that could allow for optimal OC'ing.
> Maybe a more direct approach from an expert like you might be capable of answer this?


You might be able to but probably not worth the while really. The extra cooling would likely turn your laptop into a 'desktop replacement' meaning the portability of the laptop would be reduced. 

I still wouldn't overclock a laptop. They get too hot, probably even when you have extra cooling too. Laptops will always be hotter than desktops when overclocked because obviously the desktops have better airflow. 



> spirit,
> _Hey bro._
> 
> 1. Should you conduct tests first BEFORE you OC a computer?


No, do it after you've overclocked. 



> 2. Do you need special software inorder to OC?


Like I've said in this thread before, I never recommend overclocking with any any sort of software, so no.



> 3. HOW do you OC?


In the BIOS. Each motherboard is slightly different though, but the very basic answer is 'by going into the BIOS and raising the multiplier of the CPU* and the voltage if you have to.'

*assuming you're using a multiplier unlocked CPU.


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## StrangleHold (Jun 23, 2013)

Captain Kirk said:


> StrangleHold,
> Hello.
> 
> Okay, so the number indicated on the box it the TOTAL amount when added "together"


 

No, on a multi rail the rated amps on each is just the limit that (one) rail can pull without tripping it.You dont add them together to get the max amps on the 12V rail. That is unless its a true multi rail, which we are not talking about.  



Captain Kirk said:


> So if you split them, then you would divide this number by 3.


 


Have no idea what your talking about.


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## Jamebonds1 (Jun 23, 2013)

StrangleHold said:


> [/U]Have no idea what your talking about.



I think he mean to talk about divide by three rail. So my answer is no.  Because there are some PSU with mult rail that are not same amp.  Such as 12V1 = 18A, 12V2 = 18A, 12V3 = 16A while all three are only 432 watt.  

@Kirk, no, that is not how math work.  You doing math by Watt= Amp X Volt per rail. Some PSU have all information such as watt, volt and amp.  Watt is for max power, sometime.   

EX:  You are trying to discoving how much watt for 12V1 (it mean first 12 volt rail power) and you have 18 AMP.  18 (amp) X 12 (volt) = 216 (watt)  See what I mean?


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## Okedokey (Jun 24, 2013)

Jamebonds1 said:


> I think he mean to talk about divide by three rail. So my answer is no.  Because there are some PSU with mult rail that are not same amp.  Such as 12V1 = 18A, 12V2 = 18A, 12V3 = 16A while all three are only 432 watt.
> 
> @Kirk, no, that is not how math work.  You doing math by Watt= Amp X Volt per rail. Some PSU have all information such as watt, volt and amp.  Watt is for max power, sometime.
> 
> EX:  You are trying to discoving how much watt for 12V1 (it mean first 12 volt rail power) and you have 18 AMP.  18 (amp) X 12 (volt) = 216 (watt)  See what I mean?



Your explanation is actually incorrect as if you do what you explained for each rail you get the same mathematics (just backwards) as what Kirk said.  You cannot add the rails, regardles of if you use ohms law. 

The way it is worked out, is the TOTAL wattage that can be delivered on the 12V rail divided by 12V = amps available.  Then you have to determine derating (on shitty PSUs that is 4W/oC above 25oC ) that the PSU will operate at, and then factor in if it is a max value or continuous.


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## Jamebonds1 (Jun 24, 2013)

Okedokey said:


> Your explanation is actually incorrect as if you do what you explained for each rail you get the same mathematics (just backwards) as what Kirk said.  You cannot add the rails, regardles of if you use ohms law.
> 
> The way it is worked out, is the TOTAL wattage that can be delivered on the 12V rail divided by 12V = amps available.  Then you have to determine derating (on shitty PSUs that is 4W/oC above 25oC ) that the PSU will operate at, and then factor in if it is a max value or continuous.



No. That is not what I say.  And I already say that watt is label max.  Sometime but not always.  And no, that is not ohm law mathematics i talk about. It can be used to finding amp or watt.  Please read careful next time.

Also some psu have information of limit wattage on all three rail.


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## StrangleHold (Jun 24, 2013)

This is alot simpler then its been twisted into. I hate doing this but here goes.

You have a water hose with 40 PSI (40 amps). Its hooked to a connector with 4 water hoses coming off it, each with 15 PSI limit (15 amps) .You cant just add the 4 hoses together for the total of the main hose, which is only 40 PSI (40) amps.


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