# Why not to get vista!!



## pc-tech

LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kql8cWqiv8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0sy2i5FMcI  (mild language warning)

this is why i wont get Vista


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## SBIGGS

I don't need convincing. I hate it.


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## Kill Bill

Vista is good. Everyone knows these are the min:

Intel Pentium 4 / Amd Athlon 64 3500+
1.5GB Ram
Nvidia 6X series Or ATI x1XXX Series as they support shader 3
And at least 25gb free.
And a clean dust free case


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## INTELCRAZY

pc-tech said:


> LOL
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kql8cWqiv8
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0sy2i5FMcI  (mild language warning)
> 
> this is why i wont get Vista



This is why you won't get? You know a lot from not having, right?


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## voyagerfan99

LAWLZ

Pretty funny


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## PC eye

The second link seen there is rather lame! "gee vista use more memory then xp!"? So XP uses more memory then previous versions! like 98 for instance. Nothing new since programs are also larger now then when XP first came out.

Without the glitter of the Aero themes it becomes what? Simply another version of Windows with it's own annoyances. XP has some of it's own to consider. ME was a total flop! 98 had it's own driver issues, etc. etc. etc....


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## TheBOSS

2000 was quite solid I found. Good upgrade from 98 or ME systems. Also not bad if your PC can't run XP.


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## andy_mitch92

People who hate Vista don't know why Vista is so great. It sure does use tons of ram and thats a GREAT thing because ram is so much faster than a hard drive, and all of you people who are going to say "ram is way to expensive" you are wrong, you can get 4gb of 1000mhz off of newegg for $100. Vista has pushed the hardware envelope and has made the hardware engineers make newer better products.

That Is All.


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## vonfeldt7

Link to why you should get Vista.

Dear pc-tech: Have you actually tried Vista? It sounds as if you haven't (if you have, my bad, but by judging from your comment "this is why i wont get vista," I'm guessing you haven't). 

What's the point of this thread? Really....I mean any random person can make a thread and say "vista is the worstess operating sistim eversz lolz" and know that everyone will agree with them. We already have a ton of these.

Oh, and by "Have you tried Vista" I mean for more than 5 seconds at an internet cafe. Anyways, I'm not trying to be...."rude" or whatever, but I just don't see the point. Oh well.


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## porterjw

<knows what's coming>


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## pc-tech

yes ive used vista, i recently got a computer with vista and dumped it in a week
my cousins also have some computers w/vista


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## vonfeldt7

What didn't you like about it? (Just curious...)


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## INTELCRAZY

imsati said:


> <knows what's coming>



I am waiting on paratwa and his popcorn smilie thing... 



pc-tech said:


> yes ive used vista, i recently got a computer with vista and dumped it in a week
> my cousins also have some computers w/vista



Probably a P4 that you got it on or some other type of low level CPU, if it was anything better than what's in your sig, you would replace your sig 

Jump on the Vista hater bandwagon there pc-tech, if you knew anything at all you would know that Vista is just another version of Windows and you would know/mention that you could turn off UAC or Aero.

XP used more RAM than 2000 and it had themes, the ugly default blue one...

I suggest you reevaluate your statements...


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## PC eye

Do you think for a moment I left things set at the XP themes here? NADA! When first getting into XP those years back I first hated the look! But 98SE was a little outdated by that plus then seeing NTFS over Fat was a sell!

2000 wasn't an upgrade to ME since both were out at the same time. 2000 was the upgrade to NT 4.0 there. XP is what combined desktops for home users with the NT core. Many simply refused to upgrade to XP for some time since it was labeled a memory hog for those using the old system with only 64mb and 128mb of installed memory.

Vista's delay in being released has actually left it behind hardware wise since that moves faster then the software companies as well as MS. Who is worried about a 512mb minimum when new boards handle 16gb of memory? The OSs and chipsets have to keep up there.


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## SirKenin

This thread reminds me a lot of a certain other poster who likes to post in a lot of threads, but has very little real life experience, and actually none at all in numerous threads where they post. Sometimes it humours me to think what actually gives these people the notion that they are any type of authority on the subject.

It's amazing the people that call themselves "techs" and "PC gurus" these days. You hit the power button, Google or Youtube and all of a sudden you're an expert.


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## Vizy

^word


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## INTELCRAZY

SirKenin said:


> This thread reminds me a lot of a certain other poster who likes to post in a lot of threads, but has very little real life experience, and actually none at all in numerous threads where they post. Sometimes it humours me to think what actually gives these people the notion that they are any type of authority on the subject.
> 
> It's amazing the people that call themselves "techs" and "PC gurus" these days. You hit the power button, Google or Youtube and all of a sudden you're an expert.



Here we go again.... Coming from somebody that has a good post rate of 50%..

Is it jealousy?


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## porterjw

> This thread reminds me a lot of a certain other poster who likes to post in a lot of threads, but has very little real life experience, and actually none at all in numerous threads where they post.



You know, the same could be said of you in certain situations.



> Sometimes it humours me to think what actually gives these people the notion that they are any type of authority on the subject.



Maybe it's the same notion that causes some of these self-proclaimed authorities so create a post bashing WD because they fail all the time, when in fact if they spent half as much time repairing systems as they claim, they would realize parts from all Brands fail all the time.



> It's amazing the people that call themselves "techs" and "PC gurus" these days. You hit the power button, Google or Youtube and all of a sudden you're an expert.



Yeah, we know...you're the uber tech of awesomcakes. Care to post up proof of your certifications so we know you're not bullshitting everyone? Put up or shut up.

Seriously, most of the time you act like one of these Trolling POS's that have been popping up the last few weeks, only with 4k Posts. Get over yourself

And for the record, if I was ever stumped on something, I'd take IC's advice over yours any day.


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## TFT

For Gods sake SirCretin just leave people alone and stop following him around like an annoying dog


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## Kornowski

lol, 

It's a lot like Marmite, you either love Vista, or you don't... it's your opinion, leave it at that... 

[/stupid pathetic arguing, over the internet]


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## PC eye

Kornowski said:


> lol,
> 
> It's a lot like Marmite, you either love Vista, or you don't... it's your opinion, leave it at that...
> 
> [/stupid pathetic arguing, over the internet]


 
Unbelievable isn't it?! Whether it's Vista or Windows 1.0 you could find pros and cons about anything inbetween if you look hard enough. You work with what you have until the next game or whatever comes out and then ponder with...  now what?!


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## INTELCRAZY

imsati said:


> You know, the same could be said of you in certain situations.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it's the same notion that causes some of these self-proclaimed authorities so create a post bashing WD because they fail all the time, when in fact if they spent half as much time repairing systems as they claim, they would realize parts from all Brands fail all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we know...you're the uber tech of awesomcakes. Care to post up proof of your certifications so we know you're not bullshitting everyone? Put up or shut up.
> 
> Seriously, most of the time you act like one of these Trolling POS's that have been popping up the last few weeks, only with 4k Posts. Get over yourself
> 
> And for the record, if I was ever stumped on something, I'd take IC's advice over yours any day.



First time we've ever agreed on something...


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## ThatGuy16

The guy in the second video is a complete idiot, i would be embarrassed to even post the link


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## vonfeldt7

I can't wait until Microsoft's next operating system, then everyone will have something new to complain about. 


 "I hate <Insert Windows OS here>!!! I'm moving back to <Insert previously released Windows OS here> We'll go from "I hate Vista!!! I'm moving back to XP" to "I hate Vienna (or w/e they decide to call it)!!! I'm moving back to Vista!!!

I'm pretty much a psychic, and probably a relative of Nostradamus.


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## PC eye

XP was a "scurge" when first released to many! No one wanted to rush at XP following the ME flop from either 98 or 2000 then. Now everyones either loves XP or Vista over anything else except Linux users! Where do you go from there?

The main complaint seen at one point was the need to see all new verions of softwares when upgrading to the next version after having invested in a ton of them. Now everyone finds something else to point the finger at.


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## SirKenin

First, I can't figure out what to be jealous of... The Burger King budgets or the tool and die experience to hide the fact that I know bugger all about computers.

Second, what advantage is there to prove "certifications". Certifications are meaningless. Obviously. PCeye claims to have some sort of college course on computers, yet knows bugger all about them.

I've been conducting interviews with people that claim teh "college knowledge" and most of them don't have the first damn clue when it comes time to get their hands dirty. Paper smarts are absolutely useless. Offering $25 an hour doesn't seem to get me much in the way of actual experience.

Now, experience on the other hand. Experience that gets a call from a restaurant yesterday.. Their "paper smart" tech support spent hours trying to figure out the problem. He calls me in a panic because the "support contract" he has with these people is useless and he's losing money by the minute. I go on site and in five minutes the problem is fixed, his hosts have logged back on, orders are going through, etc.

Do I REALLY need to prove something to some kid on a message board? Do I really need to give a damn who you take your advice from? Do I really need to care who you believe? Do my clients, that spend an average $150 to have their WD drives repaired give a damn that the two drives your parents bought you for Christmas still work? Do I really need to realign my thinking because "well the drive I bought with my paper route money still works six months later" after having sold, serviced, etc over 3000 drives in the last ten years? When besides Fujitsu, who scrapped their residential product line because of a fatal design flaw in their cooling, I've seen more than triple the number of failed WD drives than Seagate, Samsung or Maxtor?

Or does your sample size of 5 trump a sample size of several thousand?

I'm not even functioning on the same plane you are. You have some retired, senile, washed up has been posting "Google-sense" and someone else posting Youtube videos as proof. I have businesses, factories, government agencies, accountants, doctors, dentists, jewelers, investment brokers, printing companies, teachers, authors, real estate agents, etc. that lose money by the minute when their computer systems go down.

Your worst case scenario is that you can't post more Youtube bullcrap on a message board.

I have a very successful computer business that's growing in leaps and bounds.  I have an office, staff, inventory, equipment, signs, vehicles, advertising.  I am authorized by several major computing companies.  I have partnerships with web hosts, web designers, networking and security companies.  I have more referals bringing business than the $4500 I spent on the Yellow Pages this year.  And now I have some twit on a message board demanding PROOF!!!!  Oh...my...GOD!!  I'm going to jump right on that one.

Hmmmm. Let's think about that for a second.

Should I really CARE what you think? Give your head a shake.


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## royalmarine

windows me was amazing IMO.
never had a bsod, never had a crash, no driver issues and boot times were under 15 seconds from button press to windows being ready.


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## TFT

Look Mr Smart Ass, if you got an issue with PC eye then put it to a Moderator. Don't wash your dirty linen in public, we don't want to know.

EDIT:Not aimed at you ^ , you just happened to post as I was replying


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## SirKenin

Actually, I really don't care about PCeye.. There are things in this life that actually matter. He's not one of them.

Listen, I'm just here to collect scenarios and offer tidbits of advice here and there.  You don't want it, don't take it.  It's not going to hurt my feelings, believe me.  My focus is my business.  If something I say helps, fine.  If it doesn't, then I'm sure you can enjoy a bunch of irrelevant nonsense, Youtube videos (because God knows youtube is the definitive Vista authority) or some silly cut and paste picture collection when all you wanted to know was whether that extra fan would help.

There's nothing a blind person hates more than meeting up with someone that can see and hearing "Hey! You're blind".


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## vonfeldt7

SirKenin said:


> Burger King



This made me hungry...way to go.



SirKenin said:


> paper route money



I laughed here. (I don't don't know why anybody, any age, would EVER want to work on a paper route...anyways...)



SirKenin said:


> <Insert everything else SirKenin Said>


 
I think SirKenin is winning this "debate".


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## Kornowski

PC eye said:


> Unbelievable isn't it?! Whether it's Vista or Windows 1.0 you could find pros and cons about anything inbetween if you look hard enough. You work with what you have until the next game or whatever comes out and then ponder with...  now what?!



I know, Use what ever you want... Opinions aren't true!

SirKenin, if it aint something you have to do... prooving yourself, why did you type a freakin' essay!?


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## porterjw

SK, we bow to your greatness and proudly proclaim 'We're not worthy!' I also love how you assume I (and others that don't show their age) are 'kids'.



> You have some retired, senile, washed up has been posting "Google-sense" and someone else posting Youtube videos as proof.



Youtube videos as proof? And here I was thinking it was posted as a half-joke. Gee, silly me...



> I have businesses, factories, government agencies, accountants, doctors, dentists, jewelers, investment brokers, printing companies, teachers, authors, real estate agents, etc. that lose money by the minute when their computer systems go down.



And to think my Home Client list consists of about 50-ish families and my Small Business list 'only' has about 40. (Those are monthly-accounts, they do not include the random phone call saying 'Hi, so-and-so told me you would be able to help' Clients that I help once and never see them again.) Geeze, what have I done wrong? <flails> Again, I bow to your greatness.

In closing, I bet 20 years ago, you were the same as BP or some of the other punks here now - always on the highest pedistal, doing everything you can to convince others you know what you're talking about, but really offering very little in terms of useful assistance. PC Eye, IC, and several other *useful* posters and I don't always see things the same way, but I value their opinions/advice/debate because they have a lot to offer. You on the other hand...well...'certification this', 'I'm so great because of that', but really never any great advice. Go figure...


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## porterjw

> SirKenin, if it aint something you have to do... prooving yourself, why did you type a freakin' essay!?



 Slick!
(and true, to boot!)


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## Kornowski

Haha! Post and a half there, Jay!


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## SirKenin

Actually, you're right imsati... But perhaps not for the reason you think.

If I had said nothing... "I told you so"
If I gave my reasons... "I told you so"

It's the damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

I'm not great... Not at all.. But I am busy. Rather than wasting 10,000 on utter stupidity, I target my responses to where I think they'd be the most use. 

Better 1000 posts of useful information than 10,000 of utter garbage.

With that said.. Why do I only have a handful of posts? Look behind the scenes and read between the lines.. Mr. "Computer Expert" seems to have a whole pile of time to waste posting nonsense and hitting up search engines for answers. I don't. Why? Because I actually have a life that involves REAL clients, REAL problems and REAL money. I don't have the time to post 10,000 posts of utter garbage.  People like him sit in their basement surrounded by ancient relics, mementos of the "good old days" and a path to the TV.  I rather concern myself with growing my business.

That's the REAL scene, then, isn't it. Someone who professes a successful business, yet remarkably has hours and hours to spend posting utter garbage on a message board.. People nodding blindly in a agreement speaks volumes in itself.

I think of that when I'm reading ads in the online classifieds. These punks posting "cheap rates!" for computer service. "Low overhead!". Etc. Every day, a new ad. What that tells me is some bored teenager, working out of their bedroom and doesn't have the clientelle to keep them busy... So they have PLENTY of time to post stupid ads on a website, looking for business. 

I don't have the time to post to every thread in this forum, nor do repeated followups to try and "prove" something. PCeye does.. Good for him. I have a life... and that means my business and my girlfriend. Offering proof to someone that isn't going to pay me a dime just doesn't rate very high on that list. And even if I did list my qualifications, you get people like PCeye that tries to tear it apart, calling it garbage, looking for a loophole, bashing the Commodore.. More total wastes of time. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. And in reality it....doesn't....matter.

That's what I was trying to point out in that "essay" you criticize. And with that said, I have to get back to work...

Feel free to waste the rest of your day picking apart what I have said.


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## porterjw

> That's the REAL scene, then, isn't it. Someone who professes a successful business, yet remarkably has hours and hours to spend posting utter garbage on a message board.. People nodding blindly in a agreement speaks volumes in itself.



I'm not certain if that was directed at me, but I have time to do both, actually. I'm not away from home everyday from 9 to 5. I schedule my service calls smartly. I try to place all my medium/long travel-time calls together, and do the same with my local ones. On days when I have just local stops, there are times that I'll be home 2-3 times throughout the day, either to get parts, check prices for new parts, drop off a take-home unit that I don't want in my car all day, or just to kill some time before the next appointment. Also, there are days that I purposefully not schedule anything for random reasons, so I'm around pretty much all day unless an emergency call comes in. So again, it all comes down to smart scheduling.



> I think of that when I'm reading ads in the online classifieds. These punks posting "cheap rates!" for computer service. "Low overhead!". Etc. Every day, a new ad. What that tells me is some bored teenager, working out of their bedroom and doesn't have the clientelle to keep them busy...



While my rates are inexpensive, they are not 'cheap' in any sense of the word. I've only posted what I charge on here once, but if you can them and feel that I fall into that category, I'd to see your reasoning behind it. (Really, I would, not trying to be a jerk.)



> I don't have the time to post to every thread in this forum, nor do repeated followups to try and "prove" something.



But...wait a second...aren't these...

Anyway, I for one find it rather ironic that right after you removed the 'if someone shouts moronities at you...' from your sig, you start ripping into others. Odd...


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## Kornowski

So you wrote that while you were at work?

You took the time, from your REAL clients, REAL money and REAL life, to type that...
Wow! You really do want to prove something...


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## patrickv

Yeah i agree with Danny,i've been reading the whole thread and i'm amaze i must say..
and mods should really take a look at those vista theads.... it's really going " somewhere "


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## Kornowski

Thanks Patrick! It's silly isn't it!


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## GameMaster

Woh woh wait a minute guys... is that you couple of experts fighting who has less tme but helps more?
I must say, ( too lazy to quote though ) that I appreciate all good answers, whether they are from net surfing or from expert's head.
So, it doesn't even matter whose answer it is, it's important it works.
If someone has less time and helps, why would anyone tell him he's less helpfull and all...
Crap, I'm missing my point here...
I'll make it short...
Who likes to help, keep doing the good job.
No fighting that sucks.


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## SirKenin

imsati said:


> I'm not certain if that was directed at me, but I have time to do both, actually. I'm not away from home everyday from 9 to 5. I schedule my service calls smartly. I try to place all my medium/long travel-time calls together, and do the same with my local ones. On days when I have just local stops, there are times that I'll be home 2-3 times throughout the day, either to get parts, check prices for new parts, drop off a take-home unit that I don't want in my car all day, or just to kill some time before the next appointment. Also, there are days that I purposefully not schedule anything for random reasons, so I'm around pretty much all day unless an emergency call comes in. So again, it all comes down to smart scheduling.


 
No, it wasn't directed at you, but I wouldn't mind pointing something out this paragraph. Smart scheduling and booking days off.. Totally off topic, but I wish I could afford to just "book days off". Every day I book off costs me a minimum $1000. I can't afford to do that. Must be nice  There are many days when I'm working at the office until 2AM just to keep up with the demand...

In which case I guess I would have to rest my case, although it was never directed at you.



> While my rates are inexpensive, they are not 'cheap' in any sense of the word. I've only posted what I charge on here once, but if you can them and feel that I fall into that category, I'd to see your reasoning behind it. (Really, I would, not trying to be a jerk.)


 
I have no idea what you charge, nor do I care. Again, that statement wasn't directed at you..




> But...wait a second...aren't these...


 
Maybe, maybe not.. Look at my posting history, compared with a certain other poster here. These postings in this thread actually are only meant for clarification, not to defend my position... 

For example, PCeye's entire MO, or so it seems, is to somehow prove to the world that despite the repeated failures he's an authority on the subject. I'm a little different.. I don't give a damn what you think, nor what you do, unless I invoice you. Interestingly enough, the people I work with every day and invoice sing my praises, whereas some nobody on a forum who couldn't possibly function without posting 5+ posts of nonsense in one thread can only take up issue with the number of posts I have.. If you want to talk irony.. 

Considering that post counts don't pay the bills.. hmmm. Better to block stupidity (and thus the reason for that sig).



> Anyway, I for one find it rather ironic that right after you removed the 'if someone shouts moronities at you...' from your sig, you start ripping into others. Odd...


 
I took the moronities thing out of my sig because I found it much more appropriate to trash the "A+" myth. A+ is a completely, totally useless, meaningless certification and I just couldn't resist...especially considering the applicants that have been touting that certification when I specifically posted in the ad "A+ not considered".


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## andy_mitch92

some people (vonfeldt7) have too much time on their hands and post just to post and it has nothing to do with the amazing argument 

I'm one of these people who post just to post.^


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## porterjw

> Post #41


Ok, fine, we get it. You make $1k a day (...) and don't need cert's. You're a god, we know. We will continue to worship you and forever be awed that you grace us with your presence on our humble and unworthy Forums.

We all whipped them out to measure, and yours is infinitely bigger than mine, PC's, and everyone else on these Forums - satisfied?? Can you stfu now and drop it?


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## Kornowski

imsati said:


> Ok, fine, we get it. You make $1k a day (...) and don't need cert's. You're a god, we know. We will continue to worship you and forever be awed that you grace us with your presence on our humble and unworthy Forums.
> 
> We all whipped them out to measure, and yours is infinitely bigger than mine, PC's, and everyone else on these Forums - satisfied?? Can you stfu now and drop it?



*appluads*


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## SirKenin

imsati said:


> Ok, fine, we get it. You make $1k a day (...) and don't need cert's. You're a god, we know. We will continue to worship you and forever be awed that you grace us with your presence on our humble and unworthy Forums.
> 
> We all whipped them out to measure, and yours is infinitely bigger than mine, PC's, and everyone else on these Forums - satisfied?? Can you stfu now and drop it?


 
No, that's not it at all.. You missed the point. First I made three mistakes

a) That you were able to be addressed like a man
b) That you are a businessman
c) That you are a success.

With that said. You had me going there, until you opened your "mouth" so to speak.

a) True techs don't charge according to their overhead, they charge according to their worth. You don't charge more because you don't feel you're worth more... That if you do charge it you're going to lose clients.  And that logic comes from someone that doesn't know the first thing about business.

b) You don't have a successful business. I'm only interested in success stories. I aspire to success. Taking days off "just because" are not the way to achieve it. Attributing it to "smart scheduling" tells me that not only are you not a success, you're hopeless, even when it comes to "business-sense". I know millionaires who don't take days off and attempt to attribute it to something as lame and stupid as "smart scheduling". Just tell the truth and say "I don't have the business" and I'd have a lot more respect for you.  True businessmen work long hours.  In fact, they are always working.   

c) You use personal attacks and immature comments as your way to say "uncle".

d) You work out of your bedroom. I'm not interested in talking business to losers. I'm interested in talking business with success stories. 

e) I'm not interested in people who dish out immature stupidity when they don't have anything more concrete to contribute. Better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

You've come across as one of those people who undercuts the industry in hopes of attracting business.. A model which has proven over and over again not to work and one I have absolutely zero respect for.

People who admit shortcomings are one thing. People that use immature stupidity as insults and derogation are something completely different. Unfortunately you fell into the latter.

You know why I'm on here?  I'll state it again.   I'm working.  I'm using the scenarios I collect here for research purposes, or testing what I know, to strengthen my repertoire for when I run across it in the real world.  Some people here, this is there only outlet.  These are their only "friends".  I'm not here for approval.  This isn't about "e-peen".  I grew out of that decades ago.  If I take on something you say, it's because I feel I can address you as an adult, an equal.  It's frustrating that you and others prove me wrong.  Nothing to do with being better..  Just the age old adage that it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.

Fortunately, there are numerous people here that know their strengths and weaknesses and don't resort to stupidity.  If you'd take the time to notice, those are the ones I spend time with.


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## Kornowski

SirKenin said:


> Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah!



Seriously though, what you said was a low blow!


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## porterjw

> (Me)We all whipped them out to measure, and yours is infinitely bigger than mine, PC's, and everyone else on these Forums - satisfied?? Can you stfu now and drop it?



Guess not. OK, I'll go one more round, then wash my hands of this...



> True techs don't charge according to their overhead, they charge according to their worth.



Enlighten us with one, just one, post of mine where I said otherwise.



> You don't have a successful business. I'm only interested in success stories. I aspire to success. Taking days off "just because" are not the way to achieve it. Attributing it to "smart scheduling" tells me that not only are you not a success, you're hopeless, even when it comes to "business-sense". ... Just tell the truth and say "I don't have the business" and I'd have a lot more respect for you.



And you know I don't have a successful business how, exactly? Because I like to enjoy time with my wife? Because I like to enjoy spending time doing things that are *not* work? I'm not some sort of Borg Drone that has one purpose in life. I'm confused as to how you made that relation.



> True businessmen work long hours. In fact, they are always working.



This is law, or your opinion?



> You work out of your bedroom. I'm not interested in talking business to losers. I'm interested in talking business with success stories.



Actually, I work primarily from my office, which is right across from my bedroom, granted, but in fact, a separate area. Sorry to burst your bubble. Occasionally, I'll work in the living room if I have a system to dismantle. When not in my office or living room, I'm on-site at various locations.

SK, have a great night and sleep well. That is, of course, you're not up all night writing another essay, because you don't do that, as you've proven in your last few Po...oh, my bad.

My gods...pc-tech, look what you started! How much longer you think before a mod Locks this? And with that, I'm out. I'm not going to be goaded into more name-calling only to get a black mark and/or possible Ban. Peace.


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## SirKenin

Kornowski said:


> Seriously though, what you said was a low blow!


 
When you go to the bathroom, do you wipe it or kiss it?

In short, when you act like an ass, expect to be treated like one.


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## vonfeldt7

andy_mitch92 said:


> some people (vonfeldt7) have too much time on their hands and post just to post and it has nothing to do with the amazing argument
> 
> I'm one of these people who post just to post.^



Boy you best not be saying that kind of talk here. I already know I have to much time on my hands, it's because I"m a teenager with [unfortunately] no job. Now if you don't mind I'm going to sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch this whole "debate" thing.....


----------



## diduknowthat

Jesus Christ SK, if you really don't care about this why do you continue to leave huge posts either defending yourself or attacking others?

Let's just drop it guys...this thread is on Vista, not SK, PCeye and whoever we're mounting personal attacks on. 

And as for Vista, I really like it, and don't care it uses lots of ram, considering 4 gigs of DDR 800 ram costs like $80.


----------



## INTELCRAZY

SirKenin said:


> No, it wasn't directed at you, but I wouldn't mind pointing something out this paragraph. Smart scheduling and booking days off.. Totally off topic, but I wish I could afford to just "book days off". Every day I book off costs me a minimum $1000. I can't afford to do that. Must be nice  There are many days when I'm working at the office until 2AM just to keep up with the demand...
> 
> In which case I guess I would have to rest my case, although it was never directed at you.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what you charge, nor do I care. Again, that statement wasn't directed at you..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, maybe not.. Look at my posting history, compared with a certain other poster here. These postings in this thread actually are only meant for clarification, not to defend my position...
> 
> For example, PCeye's entire MO, or so it seems, is to somehow prove to the world that despite the repeated failures he's an authority on the subject. I'm a little different.. I don't give a damn what you think, nor what you do, unless I invoice you. Interestingly enough, the people I work with every day and invoice sing my praises, whereas some nobody on a forum who couldn't possibly function without posting 5+ posts of nonsense in one thread can only take up issue with the number of posts I have.. If you want to talk irony..
> 
> Considering that post counts don't pay the bills.. hmmm. Better to block stupidity (and thus the reason for that sig).
> 
> 
> 
> I took the moronities thing out of my sig because I found it much more appropriate to trash the "A+" myth. A+ is a completely, totally useless, meaningless certification and I just couldn't resist...especially considering the applicants that have been touting that certification when I specifically posted in the ad "A+ not considered".



If you're so above anything else... Go get a damn CCIE, then have a coke and a smile, and STFU


----------



## patrickv

Forum wars, this was expected
if i was a mod, this thread was gonna be a
" BINGO- BANGO READY TO CLOSE-CLOSE "


----------



## Kornowski

SirKenin said:


> When you go to the bathroom, do you wipe it or kiss it?
> 
> In short, when you act like an ass, expect to be treated like one.



Sounds like you kiss it... "I've done this, I've done that..."

Hmmm, Ok, hypocrite...


----------



## SirKenin

I kiss it? Whose exactly?

Sorry, your post didn't make any sense...  It's almost like having a battle of wits with an unarmed man...  and very much like running in the special olympics.


----------



## patrickv

SirKenin said:


> and very much like running in the special olympics.



arhahahaha, dude that made my day 
Danny, i can only winder what you're gonna say
wow 6 pages and the war is getting intense !!

**runs to the Fridge, get a bag of crips and pepsi coke and waits for Danny **


----------



## Kornowski

SirKenin said:


> I kiss it? Whose exactly?
> 
> Sorry, your post didn't make any sense...  It's almost like having a battle of wits with an unarmed man...  and very much like running in the special olympics.



Well, From all the stuff you've "achieved" you've kissed somebody's ass...

You know, for somebody that doesn't have to prove anything, you sure as hell try hard... Don't you have some _REAL_ people to be talking to? Or some _REAL_ qualifications to be getting?

Oh wait, don't tell me, you're at work while you read this too, like last time, so this is obviously more "important" to you than you make it out to be!


----------



## funkysnair

can i just say something???

i love keebabs after ive been on the drink lol


----------



## SirKenin

Why do I have to kiss up to someone to succeed? That doesn't make any sense to me? Then again, neither does any of your "logic".. Why does having a discussion mandate "proving something"? What exactly is it that you have, that anyone here has, that I want? What benefit would there be to me "proving" anything to any of you?

Is this teen logic? Whatever it is, it certainly is baffling my brains.

Try and get on the same page here.. Stop being hell bent on getting "one up" because the more you reach for straws, the more illogical you become.


----------



## Kornowski

Bah! What ever, I can't be bothered any more!

Vista is good, XP is good, Mac is good... It's opinion.


----------



## TFT

Final word SirKenin
Your location under your Avatar.... Is this it ... If so, I suggest you retire to it


----------



## Langers2k7

SK you speak a lot of sense in your posts but if these guys mean nothing to you and you're only here for research purposes, why not leave the thread and get on with your research?

I just switched to Vista and it rocks - considering a RAM upgrade... Which will mean I'll need a new MoBo... Any suggestions?


----------



## SirKenin

Kornowski said:


> Bah! What ever, I can't be bothered any more!
> 
> Vista is good, XP is good, Mac is good... It's opinion.


 
Well, Kornowski, it's like this.  Let me try and give it some perspective.  I'm not trying to insult you or anything, just trying to get us on the same page.

First..  Proving something.  I'll explain why it came across as illogical to me.  To feel the need to prove something, one would logically have to assess that there would be a benefit in doing so, and that the cost would be worth the benefit.

You and I are nobodies.  Yeah, you might have a small circle of influence, but you're a nobody in the grand scheme of things.  The same holds true for me.  There's no benefit in proving anything to you, PCeye, Intelcrazy or anyone.  The cost is high, particularly in time lost, and there's nothing to gain in return.  A little clout on a message board maybe?  Big deal.  At the end of the day, a message board doesn't matter a damn.

So get over yourself.

Second, I aspire to success.  I'm not where I want to be, but I'm working my butt off to get there, and it's happening.  Whether some teenager on the other side of the globe sees that, or some blubbering old fool in his basement in a different country sees that, is immaterial.

What matters is that I see that.  That the people I work with and work for see that.

Success has nothing to prove.  Success is what it is and I am what I am.  People that are successful know success when they see it.  You, Kornowski, are not successful.  Imsati is not successful (in business anyways).  PCeye is not successful.  And ultimately, I only want to be in intimate conversation with those that are.  The reason is that there's a lot to learn from them and it helps me achieve my end goal.

My goal is success in my business.  Even my girlfriend takes second place to that and she knows it.

Now hopefully you know why what you said makes no sense to me.  I work hard, I don't kiss butt and I pay my own way.  

I state on a message board "this is my experience" to which some bumbling old fool breaks in with raucous comments, calling me a liar, stating I started at 14 and bashing Commodores.  Can you see just how utterly stupid and ridiculous that is?  I don't have time for fools anymore.  Yes, I've spent more time than I should have in the past confronting idiots like that, but that time has come and gone for the most part.  All it did was detract me from my end goal...  Provided a distraction.  In the end he's a waste of time, energy and finger effort.

Sharing my experience with WD and some immature little brat comes up and takes it as a personal attack, slamming me for attacking him, PCeye and others.  The absurd thing was that he really thought I cared.  I don't.  Sorry.  I shared that with people in hopes that they could learn something from it.  The smart ones will.  The fools will take it as an attack.  Again, it's immaterial.

There is nothing to prove.  You contribute absolutely nothing to my bottom line, same with PCeye, same with Intelcrazy, same with Imsati, same with others.  The mature ones, the successful ones.  They know.  They understand.  They speak less, listen more.  Those are the people I generally associate with.  They have wisdom.  Some raucous old fool bragging about post counts isn't worth the wasted time reading their contribution.

I hope that makes sense.  Success allows you to determine your own path.  Who you associate with, who you date, what you buy, who you work for.  Failure relegates you to attacking it in a forum.

Which would you rather emulate?  Which would you rather aspire to?

A discussion, such as this, is not a "debate", it's not a "war", there are no "winners".  When you think like that you become a babbling fool and you learn nothing.  Even if you win, you're still retarded.

In the future, rather than making assumptions, ask questions.  You'll get much further ahead....  And if that makes no sense to you then there's not much more I can say.


----------



## Langers2k7

SirKenin said:


> Success has nothing to prove.  Success is what it is and I am what I am.  People that are successful know success when they see it.  You, Kornowski, are not successful.  Imsati is not successful (in business anyways).  PCeye is not successful.  And ultimately, I only want to be in intimate conversation with those that are.  The reason is that there's a lot to learn from them and it helps me achieve my end goal.



Success is relative. Relative to the individual and their past experiences. Whereas you yourself may only recognise business as success, others on this forum have their own _different_ ideas of success - and you don't seem to be able to understand that.

By the way I'm 15, and I hope to have a business as _successful_ as yours some day.


----------



## SirKenin

Langers2k7 said:


> Success is relative. Relative to the individual and their past experiences. Whereas you yourself may only recognise business as success, others on this forum have their own _different_ ideas of success - and you don't seem to be able to understand that.


 
Excellent point. It's not that I don't see it, either. It's that a successful person (in whatever venue that person measures success) does not bash someone else for stating theirs, nor does a successful person take such statements as personal attacks.  Therefore, in that regard and to that end, none of those people are successful.

Well stated, by the way.


----------



## GameMaster

A successfull man is a man that is satisfied with himself/herself, whether he earns a lot of money or not...Self confidence is the key, and also the success depends on possibilities... Why are you discussing who's the most successfull here, there's absolutely no point there.


----------



## Kornowski

> You, Kornowski, are not successful.



How do you know this, can you prove it? For all you know, I could be your biggest rival company... You just don't know...



> My goal is success in my business. Even my girlfriend takes second place to that and she knows it.



That's like saying you'd rather have money than friends... That really isn't a good way to look at life!

I'd have thought you'd know that, considering I do and you're twice my age...


----------



## pc-tech

i think th just may be my longest thread...


----------



## TFT

Quotes from another Forum Sirkenin You know, the one you were banned from for being rude to the members. Just as you are here.





> So where is your apology to our new member who was so rudely treated and unnecessarily insulted?
> 
> We've had to deal with your crap before SirKenin! This isn't the first time your posts have made this site look bad. I don't know who you think you are, but we don't tolerate this crap here. This will be your final warning!





> You got it bucko! We don't need you here!
> 
> Consider yourself gone!


----------



## SirKenin

Kornowski said:


> That's like saying you'd rather have money than friends... That really isn't a good way to look at life!
> 
> I'd have thought you'd know that, considering I do and you're twice my age...


 
It used to be that I thought the same way, actually.  Until something occured to me, a "paradigm shift".  If you're no good to yourself, you can't be good to anyone else either.

When you are successful, everything else follows.  It's not really an easy mindset to get into, one I struggled with for a long time.  When you're successful, you control your own destiny.  When you're successful, you can provide not only for yourself, but for others.

If you want a good wife, for example, ideally you should be successful.  If you're a failure, you won't keep her long, unless she's a failure herself... and do you really want a failure for a partner?

Thus, because I love my partner, I strive to succeed so I can bring her everything she deserves.

And the reason I know you're not successful is the way you've come across in this thread.  That's all.  I know how successful people act and react.


----------



## SirKenin

TFT said:


> Quotes from another Forum Sirkenin You know, the one you were banned from for being rude to the members. Just as you are here.


 
Never was I more irritated with a bunch of losers than there..   What exactly is your point?


----------



## vonfeldt7

GameMaster said:


> A successfull man is a man that is satisfied with himself/herself, whether he earns a lot of money or not...Self confidence is the key, and also the success depends on possibilities... Why are you discussing who's the most successfull here, there's absolutely no point there.



Idk about all of this...it's true to an extent, but in the end it just reminds of the crap that my school tells me...."At least you tried! A for effort!"


----------



## fortyways

in after shitstorm


----------



## Kornowski

SirKenin said:


> It used to be that I thought the same way, actually.  Until something occured to me, a "paradigm shift".  If you're no good to yourself, you can't be good to anyone else either.
> 
> When you are successful, everything else follows.  It's not really an easy mindset to get into, one I struggled with for a long time.  When you're successful, you control your own destiny.  When you're successful, you can provide not only for yourself, but for others.
> 
> If you want a good wife, for example, ideally you should be successful.  If you're a failure, you won't keep her long, unless she's a failure herself... and do you really want a failure for a partner?
> 
> Thus, because I love my partner, I strive to succeed so I can bring her everything she deserves.
> 
> And the reason I know you're not successful is the way you've come across in this thread.  That's all.  I know how successful people act and react.



I'm not a success because I found this thread!? Wait a minute, you're in it too! lol


----------



## TFT

and here's another quote from the forum that banned SIRKENIN for rudeness to its members as he is doing here



> I hardly think your post qualifies as an apology. You made some sarcastic and rude remarks in that same post and then went on to disrespect a Moderator.
> 
> You can take your attitude somewhere else.


----------



## fortyways

Kornowski said:


> I'm not a success because I found this thread!? Wait a minute, you're in it too! lol



He didn't say that, he said because of the way you come across in this thread, i.e. the way you've presented yourself.

A reading comprehension test should be a requirement for Internet usage.


Oh by the way guys, I saw a video on YouTube and it looks like 70% of all programs aren't compatible with Vista including a "screen capture" program which I need because I cannot find my print screen button on my keyboard.

So I'm not getting Vista.


----------



## tlarkin

Vista sucks, and it offers NO performance or feature increase to justify an upgrade over windows XP, unless you really just like wasting money.

The enhanced UI does not run faster than explorer in XP

MS feature limited their OS and marketed so people would want the ultimate, and I bet 99% of people who are only home users that purchased ultimate just wasted money.  They think it runs faster, but its the same ********* OS!

All new features in Vista are to annoy you with security messages, help figure out why your windows machine crashes, network access protection (NAP - google it), A good way to eat up a bunch of RAM and really make the OS run sluggish, and yes I ran Vista Business and Vista Ultimate on a rig that was way higher than the required specs, with 3 gigs of RAM and it still ran like ass.

DX10 actually lowers your FPS in gaming - wow what an awesome feature!  Also to add fuel to the fire, in a lot of side by side comparisons, it doesn't even look better than DX9.  In some cases it does look better.

So, you have an OS bundled with tons of features that no end users would ever really even use, let alone understand how to use and people just buy it and say its great no crashes!.  I only surf the web and play video games!  That represents a small percentage of computer users.  You start supporting thousands of computers and load vista on a few to test it out, and see a plethora of problems off the bat, you know its crap.

Not to mention Microsoft has given everyone this false perception that ALL operating systems are crap until the first service pack, which has been true with MS, so I can see where that logic is.  When looking at other OSes in comparison like OS X, for example, you can clearly see that 10.5 was released in October, and Apple has already updated it to 10.5.2 to get rid of all the initial bugs, and it took MS a year to bust out SP 1?  Most OS bugs are fixed with in the first few months with just about every other operating system out there.

If any of you ever start to develop applications for windows, and then switch over to Linux/Unix/OS X you will clearly see the superiority of those operating systems from a developers point of view.

As for the A+ certification I totally disagree with it being a waste.  You have to start out somewhere.  You have to get a job and work your way to the top and having the A+ would at least give your employer the knowledge that you are making an effort to better yourself.  I hold tons of certs, but ultimately they mean nothing, experience in the job world is king.  I have met people that can spout off all day about how good they are and about how awesome they know technology, yet can't use deductive logic and narrow down problems at all.  

Vista also lacks all these promises that it was suppose to have.  EFI support is a major let down.  Also, for those of you who try to tell me this is not a big deal, just like intel did in another thread, google EFI - Extensible Firmware Interface.  It will be the next big thing at the hardware level, making everything better and actually for once developing true plug n play hardware.

MS has crappy project management so they had to drop a laundry list of features out of Vista.  Which just goes to show you it was released to compete with Leopard and is a half ass windows ME like product.  Vienna will hopefully be better.


----------



## vonfeldt7

tlarkin said:


> Vista sucks, and it offers NO performance or feature increase to justify an upgrade over windows XP, unless you really just like wasting money.


*I wouldn't recommend Vista to someone who's already running XP either...however if you're building a new system, I don't see why not to upgrade to Vista...*



tlarkin said:


> A good way to eat up a bunch of RAM and really make the OS run sluggish, and yes I ran Vista Business and Vista Ultimate on a rig that was way higher than the required specs, with 3 gigs of RAM and it still ran like ass.


*I'm running Home Prem. and don't notice any slowdown between it and XP. None. Athlon X2 5000+ and 2GB DDR2 @ 667MHz.*



tlarkin said:


> DX10 actually lowers your FPS in gaming - wow what an awesome feature!  Also to add fuel to the fire, in a lot of side by side comparisons, it doesn't even look better than DX9.  In some cases it does look better.


*I agree here.*



tlarkin said:


> Not to mention Microsoft has given everyone this false perception that ALL operating systems are crap until the first service pack, which has been true with MS, so I can see where that logic is.


*I don't even see why Vista needs SP1. Mine runs fine. It's not slow, every program I've used with it works, and it's stable. (Maybe I'm lucky?)*



tlarkin said:


> Vienna will hopefully be better.


*I've heard that they're completely building Vienna. This is good and bad, obviously nothing will be compatible with it, but on the plus side, they will get rid of old libraries of code from their older OS's. I've also heard that they may release to versions, one that's completely rebuilt, and one that contains the old libraries of code. Who knows, I guess we'll have to wait and see.*


----------



## patrickv

fortyways said:


> Oh by the way guys, I saw a video on YouTube and it looks like 70% of all programs aren't compatible with Vista including a "screen capture" program which I need because I cannot find my print screen button on my keyboard.



and there's more, don't let me mention their names !!


----------



## ThatGuy16

Why isn't this thread locked, its pointless.

I'm not pointing anyone out, but theres always 3 members that join these threads and start the vista bashing. Its impossible to create a thread without these particular members jumping in and starting arguments because someone may recommend vista to one another. Its pathetic 

The sad thing is, most people that say it sucks, have never even used it. Or only used it for a week or so..



SirKenin said:


> So get over yourself.




It looks like you need to get over yourself.


----------



## patrickv

ThatGuy16 said:


> Why isn't this thread locked, its pointless.


yeah i said the same thing a while back



ThatGuy16 said:


> Its impossible to create a thread without these particular members jumping in and starting arguments because someone may recommend vista to one another. Its pathetic


yeah i agree, but don't you think it's the same for Mac ? why are they bashing Mac once a thread is Made ? 
a thread labelled *VISTA* will always be a war



ThatGuy16 said:


> The sad thing is, most people that say it sucks, have never even used it. Or only used it for a week or so..



you're very wrong my friend, i switched back to xp and i had my reasons


----------



## ThatGuy16

no offense, but what were the specs on that particular system again?  (sarcasm intended)


----------



## patrickv

ThatGuy16 said:


> no offense, but what were the specs on that particular system again?  (sarcasm intended)



check the lappy in my sig, i have a spare 1gb ddr2 stick for it, and its vista capable


----------



## tlarkin

ThatGuy16 said:


> Why isn't this thread locked, its pointless.
> 
> I'm not pointing anyone out, but theres always 3 members that join these threads and start the vista bashing. Its impossible to create a thread without these particular members jumping in and starting arguments because someone may recommend vista to one another. Its pathetic
> 
> The sad thing is, most people that say it sucks, have never even used it. Or only used it for a week or so..



1)  This is a public forum

2)  People are allowed their opinions

3)  If you don't like it or disagree state why you think its wrong, or leave and don't post

4)  Besides the petty arguing in this thread, which was mildly entertaining, I do agree with you this thread is pointless and the vista debate should come to an end, just like the people who try to talk like they know about Macintosh but don't know a thing.

5)  My advice is free, which I do charge for sometimes.  I typically post on threads here while working on something else that I can't quite figure out and need a break.  So, I take 5 minutes, post a few things, clear my head and go back to work on something for work.

6)  For the record I ran vista since first beta and RC 1, and still have it on a machine to this day, so I have been running it for like, almost 2 years now if you count the beta time.  My opinion is that it sucks, deal with it, or prove me wrong.

This all brings back one of my all time favorite quotes about the interwebs...

Winning an argument on the internet is just like being in the special Olympics, even if you win you are still retarded.


----------



## PC eye

Likewise it could be said that it's not the best version to have been seen so far while passing XP in other ways then many pay attention to. The "eye candy" seen in both XP and Vista are something I can easily do without. Vista enhanced that part over XP for sure!

But there are pros and cons if you look hard enough at every version to date. XP took some time to catch on for 98/2000 users while ME was one example of a flop there! Having gone from DX7 to 9c I haven't noticed any great differences in the long run besides simply being a newer set of 3D rendering drivers. Going from AGP to PCI-E was the thing that saw the real gain.


----------



## SirKenin

I like Vista personally.  There are certain applications where it's not suitable, but overall I'm quite happy with it.


----------



## Deamos

Vista isn't too bad if you:
#1: Update you system. Usually most single core 512MB/1GB systems are not going to be able to handle Vista. This also goes if you are still running that ATI Raydeon 9700 Pro
#2:System management is key in Vista. Know what you're downloading and try not to install any memory hogs. (Other than Vista of course)
#3: Stick with the 32-bit version.  Its pretty obvious that the component manufacturers are not keeping up with 64-bit drivers, and upgrading to Vista 64-bit is the quickest way for make all your old working parts not be supported.


Follow those three simple rules and you should be fine.  Yes, Vista is a memory hog, but you better get used to it before MS yanks support for XP.


----------



## tlarkin

Deamos said:


> Vista isn't too bad if you:
> #1: Update you system. Usually most single core 512MB/1GB systems are not going to be able to handle Vista. This also goes if you are still running that ATI Raydeon 9700 Pro
> #2:System management is key in Vista. Know what you're downloading and try not to install any memory hogs. (Other than Vista of course)
> #3: Stick with the 32-bit version.  Its pretty obvious that the component manufacturers are not keeping up with 64-bit drivers, and upgrading to Vista 64-bit is the quickest way for make all your old working parts not be supported.
> 
> 
> Follow those three simple rules and you should be fine.  Yes, Vista is a memory hog, but you better get used to it before MS yanks support for XP.



How does video cards even come into play, unless you are gaming?  A basic video card will work Aero just fine and you don't need a high end for office productivity or surfing the internet.  Also, MS just yanked support for 98 like a year ago, XP will be supported for years to come, they made like 7 or 8 service packs for NT, and also for 2000.


----------



## PC eye

2000/ME of course will get the axe before XP unless the next version sees a big turn around. The one thing that Vista lacks besides the add/remove Windows components option seen in 98 up is a repair install option. 

The only thing found so far for repair is the automatic fix startup problems tool on the installation disk. For a repair install you have to essentially reinstall everything all over again while preserving the partition not the softwares installed as seen with XP. That's another minus for Vista, plus for XP.


----------



## Shane

the second video is a load of cr*p imo.

he says Firefox is incompatiable with Vista.....no its not im using firefox right now lol.

il admit theres been a few problems for me like vista not creating desktop icons when i install some stuff but they was easily fixed.

then theres User account control.....that was easily disabled.

Vista imo even though it uses more ram its alot more efficient than Windows xp has ever been.


----------



## tlarkin

OK, I'll bite the bullet, just tell me and explain to me with many words how it is more efficient?  Use technical terms and personal experiences to clearly explain to me how it is in fact more efficient.  Enlighten me.


----------



## Kornowski

tlarkin said:


> OK, I'll bite the bullet, just tell me and explain to me with many words how it is more efficient?  Use technical terms and personal experiences to clearly explain to me how it is in fact more efficient.  Enlighten me.



If you notice these three letters in Shane's post;



Nevakonaza said:


> Vista *imo* even though it uses more ram its alot more efficient than Windows xp has ever been.



*I*n *M*y *O*pinion

It doesn't mean it's true, it's what he thinks, he doesn't have to prove anything!

Man, I wish people would lighten up a little, enough of this bullshit, Vista, XP, WHATEVER! Use what you want!


----------



## SirKenin

tlarkin said:


> How does video cards even come into play, unless you are gaming? A basic video card will work Aero just fine and you don't need a high end for office productivity or surfing the internet. Also, MS just yanked support for 98 like a year ago, XP will be supported for years to come, they made like 7 or 8 service packs for NT, and also for 2000.


 
Actually not really.  Windows 9x support was cancelled years ago.  They just pulled the windows update site about a year ago.

It's official, XP support is being cancelled in 2009.  It's been announced numerous times.


----------



## tlarkin

SirKenin said:


> Actually not really.  Windows 9x support was cancelled years ago.  They just pulled the windows update site about a year ago.
> 
> It's official, XP support is being cancelled in 2009.  It's been announced numerous times.



yeah but how many times was 98 scheduled to be canceled?  I mean come on, and on top of that how many times have they said they are going to stop selling XP?  Yet they still are selling it and they pushed back the date many times.  Regardless though, XP will not be dead any time soon, it has a few years left in it.  As long as people are still paying for a site license of XP it will still have support.

Kornowski-

This is my point.  First off, I am not saying he is right or wrong I am asking him to explain why.  He is saying its better because he says so, well how does that prove anything.  Now, if he wanted to say i like it better but really don't know if it is actually better than that is a different story.

I grow very tired of arguing with teenagers on this forum who say things like this.  I try to actually technically and logically explain the inter workings of something and show how it is not better.  Either what I say must go over everyone's head, they take it as a personal attack (hence you jumping to his defense), or they disregard everything I say to begin with.

That is why I was *ASKING* him to explain his stance.  I never once name called or said he was wrong.  I was simply asking him to fully explain it.

It seems every time I ask someone to back up their opinion they get all butt hurt on this forum.


----------



## Kornowski

tlarkin, Ok sure, it just came across as if you were suggesting his opinion was wrong... My bad.

Also, that last statement in my last post, wasn't aimed at you.


----------



## vonfeldt7

Nevakonaza said:


> Vista imo even though it uses more ram its alot more efficient than Windows xp has ever been.



I don't know if it's more efficient that XP...I wouldn't say that it's less efficient either though. About the same. 

I just wish Vista had MORE eyecandy type of stuff. Beryl/Compiz Fusion for example....(M$ "borrowed" a few ideas from Apple, they might as well "borrow" some from Linux).


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## tlarkin

vonfeldt7 said:


> I don't know if it's more efficient that XP...I wouldn't say that it's less efficient either though. About the same.



That is one of my main points, if there is no performance gain why pay for an upgrade?  In my experience it is not very efficient at all.  The fact that it requires more resources than any other OS that is out and up to date just shows you how bloated it really is.  Compare it to Unix, Linux, and OS X and all of them can deliver the same eye candy, memory management, multi tasking ability and all require less hardware.  Point in case.



> I just wish Vista had MORE eyecandy type of stuff. Beryl/Compiz Fusion for example....(M$ "borrowed" a few ideas from Apple, they might as well "borrow" some from Linux).



It was all stolen from Solaris's Project Looking Glass, google it, and every OS out there stole it.  There is nothing new under the sun and innovation is really just a niche in the market of technology.  Once any company in any particular part of technology innovates all the others emulate.  It doesn't pay to innovate really any more these days.  This is because when Apple comes out with things like spotlight and MS copies it and calls it indexing (or whatever it is) who cares who thought of it first in the end?  As long as it get the job done it gets the job done.  Lazy developers are however lazy developers, and marketing is marketing and sometime they go hand in hand.  You don't always get what you pay for, but it may be marketed that way.


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## kevlee89

You know what, I really like Vista. It just has a very nice feeling to it, and the programs and features are good as well.

I have one complaint about it, however, and I don't think that this is just a personal thing as this has plagued a whole bunch of users..and I'm talking about the nvlddmkm.sys display error! I'm not entirely sure whether or not it's the OS, or Nvidia, but either way, it's definitely some sort of compatibility issue. Hopefully, the SP1 will fix this, and then, I will have no further complaints!


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## andy_mitch92

I wonder if the 64bit of vista (which i have) has better performance? It seems logical to me that it would for the actual os it self because as we all know (well most of us anyway) 64bit does not only mean more ram support, but it also means more cpu performance. I know that, unfortunately, most programs are still coded 32bit but if the os it self is coded to run in 64bits then it would work better. 

I ask/say all of this because I have never once had a problem with my computer running vista (Pentium 4 631) and it plays games almost as well as a friend of mine who has an AMD X64 5000+ which should not only be better than a Pentium 4 but way way better than a Pentium 4.

We both have the same gfx card (8800 gt) in case that was your thought of why my computer is almost as good as his


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## vonfeldt7

andy_mitch92 said:


> I wonder if the 64bit of vista (which i have) has better performance? It seems logical to me that it would for the actual os it self because as we all know (well most of us anyway) 64bit does not only mean more ram support, but it also means more cpu performance. I know that, unfortunately, most programs are still coded 32bit but if the os it self is coded to run in 64bits then it would work better.
> 
> I ask/say all of this because I have never once had a problem with my computer running vista (Pentium 4 631) and it plays games almost as well as a friend of mine who has an AMD X64 5000+ which should not only be better than a Pentium 4 but way way better than a Pentium 4.
> 
> We both have the same gfx card (8800 gt) in case that was your thought of why my computer is almost as good as his



Haha, you also have to remember that you have 4GB of RAM...


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## tlarkin

andy_mitch92 said:


> I wonder if the 64bit of vista (which i have) has better performance? It seems logical to me that it would for the actual os it self because as we all know (well most of us anyway) 64bit does not only mean more ram support, but it also means more cpu performance. I know that, unfortunately, most programs are still coded 32bit but if the os it self is coded to run in 64bits then it would work better.
> 
> I ask/say all of this because I have never once had a problem with my computer running vista (Pentium 4 631) and it plays games almost as well as a friend of mine who has an AMD X64 5000+ which should not only be better than a Pentium 4 but way way better than a Pentium 4.
> 
> We both have the same gfx card (8800 gt) in case that was your thought of why my computer is almost as good as his



Another misconception.  64 bit means simply 64 bit memory addressing (and 64bit instruction sets), and your applications and all other softwares must be written for it and use 64 bit library files of the OS to make it worth it.  The way the MS designed Vista is retarded as well, they don't run dual library files like every other OS, so that you are always running in 64bit mode regardless, and if you launch a 32bit app it runs like it should but doesn't have the advantage of 64bit memory addressing.  It doesn't automatically mean more performance.  It just means the potential for more performance and even then it has to take advantage of it.  Highly subjective.


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## PC eye

That's one argument I hear all the time about those stating that their games run in Ultimate 64 when I try explaining to someone that it's based on a different platform while being 32bit backward compatible to a degree. Just because the 64bit editions support upto 8gb doesn't mean that it runs faster then the 32bit editions for gaming purposes.

The games and most programs in general are still 32bit for the time being. Like mentioned on many prior occasions the transition from 32 to 64bit overall won't come overnight like seen with the 95/98 transition in one version there from 16 to 32bit. 32bit and support for it have been around since NT 3.1 and OSR2 for 95 with 95 PLUS! or the second edition seeing the service pack included there.

How long has 64bit been available compared to 32bit? At this time almost 18yrs. for 32bit while late 2004/2005 saw the XP Pro 64 edition along with Linux 64 around that time as well. The next desktop version due in 2009-10 will still see 32bit editions with more emphasis there towards Microsoft's planned abandonment of 32bit from that point on. 64bit will prove to be a better platform in the long run like 32 was over 16bit.

As far as Vista over any other version of Windows it's sees it's pros and cons like any other version depending on what you are doing with the OS. Some things to note:

higher minimum memory requirement = expected for any newer version after this amount of time. XP higher then previous versions like 98 was over 3.1/95.

Improvement in drive tools over what was seen in XP.

Set back with lack of option for performing an actual repair of current installation forcing a full reinstallation of Windows whether on same or new primary. 

saves original folders in Windows.old while XP simply deleted all MS created.

longer loading time to desktop then XP confirmed. Last thing loaded here is the ATI ccc after everything else for some reason.

Better crash control over XP with ctrl-alt-del key combination in many ways while still can lock solid at times like any other version.

"eye candy" and new UAC annoyances for most regular users.


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## andy_mitch92

I never said (or tried to say at least) games would run better on a 64bit os rather than a 32bit one. I was simply trying to state that to me just running the os it self would be faster on 64bits rather than 32.


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## kevlee89

So how much faster would..say.. a 4gb memory 64 bit system be compared to a 2 or 3gb memory 32 bit system?

I have read in some article with benchmarks that 64 bit Vista does run most applications faster than 32 bit Vista, although it's really not noticeable and really just fractional.


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## PC eye

32bit saw a gain over 16bit originally. With a 64bit version you are simply taking advantage of efficiency over actual speed being a more stable platform to begin with. Plus on a 64bit system you have far less items loading since there's a big lack of 64bit applications at this time. Less programs means more resources available.


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## SirKenin

God.  And you guys call this guy "helpful"?  He's spewed out several posts, gone off on a dozen tangents, and gotten next to nothing right.

Unbelievable.

For the *real* truth about 64 bit vs. 32 bit, see the following article.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb878056.aspx


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## tlarkin

SirKenin said:


> God.  And you guys call this guy "helpful"?  He's spewed out several posts, gone off on a dozen tangents, and gotten next to nothing right.
> 
> Unbelievable.
> 
> For the *real* truth about 64 bit vs. 32 bit, see the following article.
> 
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb878056.aspx



That article is over 6 years old and published by Microsoft.  While I don't disagree with it, but i would like to point out I paraphrased that whole article with some facts and used like 2 sentences to do so.  64 bit has been around for a while is does great when dealing with loads and loads of multitasking, uni-casting, and other things that put a wear down on a system.

However, to the end user, and the end user applications the performance increase probably won't be that much greater than over 32bit.  MS has been running a 64 bit version of exchange for a while now, Linux and Unix have 64 bit versions for years now, and MS just took the leap with their end user OS in Vista.


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## SirKenin

That's right. I agree. 64 bit was designed for multi-user/server applications (and truly the Itanium was the first true IA 64 bit processor).

The only advantage to an end user is the addressing, which that article (as old as it is) addresses. Leave it to that buffoon to go on and on, say next to nothing and get it all wrong.


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## PC eye

tlarkin said:


> That article is over 6 years old and published by Microsoft. While I don't disagree with it, but i would like to point out I paraphrased that whole article with some facts and used like 2 sentences to do so. 64 bit has been around for a while is does great when dealing with loads and loads of multitasking, uni-casting, and other things that put a wear down on a system.
> 
> However, to the end user, and the end user applications the performance increase probably won't be that much greater than over 32bit. MS has been running a 64 bit version of exchange for a while now, Linux and Unix have 64 bit versions for years now, and MS just took the leap with their end user OS in Vista.


 
MS took a leap while other software and hardware companies have pretty much fallen behind in many ways. That's why I've pointed out that it still is in it's fancy from the actual lack of support still being seen with the Vista edtions as well as XP Pro 64. But they will be forced if and when MS finally dumps 32bit after the next version supposedly.


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## SirKenin

1961: IBM delivers the IBM 7030 Stretch supercomputer, which uses 64-bit data words and 32 or 64-bit instruction words.

1974: Control Data Corporation launches the CDC Star-100 vector supercomputer, which uses a 64-bit word architecture (previous CDC systems were based on a 60-bit architecture).

1976: Cray Research delivers the first Cray-1 supercomputer, which is based on a 64-bit word architecture and would form the basis for later Cray vector supercomputers.

1983: Elxsi launches the Elxsi 6400 parallel minisupercomputer. The Elxsi architecture has 64-bit data registers but a 32-bit address space.

1991: MIPS Technologies produces the first 64-bit microprocessor, the R4000 (the third revision of their MIPS RISC architecture). The CPU is used in SGI graphics workstations starting with the IRIS Crimson. However, 64-bit support for the R4000 would not be included in the IRIX operating system until IRIX 6.2, released in 1996. Kendall Square Research deliver their first KSR1 supercomputer, based on a proprietary 64-bit RISC processor architecture running OSF/1.

1992: Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) introduces the pure 64-bit Alpha architecture which was born from the PRISM project.

1993: DEC releases the 64-bit OSF/1 AXP Unix-like operating system (later renamed Tru64 UNIX) and the OpenVMS operating system for Alpha systems.

1994: Intel announces plans for the 64-bit IA-64 architecture (jointly developed with Hewlett-Packard) as a successor to its 32-bit IA-32 processors. A 1998–1999 launch date is targeted. SGI releases IRIX 6.0, with 64-bit support for R8000 CPUs.

1995: Sun launches a 64-bit SPARC processor, the UltraSPARC. Fujitsu-owned HAL Computer Systems launches workstations based on a 64-bit CPU, HAL's independently designed first generation SPARC64. IBM releases the 64-bit AS/400 system upgrade, which can convert the operating system, database and applications. DEC releases OpenVMS Alpha 7.0, the first full 64-bit version of OpenVMS for Alpha.

1996: Nintendo introduces the Nintendo 64 video game console, built around a low-cost variant of the MIPS R4000 (it is 64 bit internally, but limited to a 32 bit bus externally). HP releases an implementation of the 64-bit 2.0 version of their PA-RISC processor architecture, the PA-8000.

1997: IBM releases the RS64 line of full-64-bit PowerPC processors.

1998: IBM releases the POWER3 line of full-64-bit PowerPC/POWER processors. Sun releases Solaris 7, with full 64-bit UltraSPARC support.

1999: Intel releases the instruction set for the IA-64 architecture. AMD publicly discloses its set of 64-bit extensions to IA-32, called x86-64 (later renamed AMD64).

2000: IBM ships its first 64-bit ESA/390-compatible mainframe, the zSeries z900, and its new z/OS operating system. 64-bit Linux on zSeries follows almost immediately.

2001: Intel finally ships its 64-bit processor line, now branded Itanium, targeting high-end servers. It fails to meet expectations due to the repeated delays in getting IA-64 to market. Linux is the first operating system to run on the processor at its release.

2002: Intel introduces the Itanium 2 as a successor to the Itanium.

2003: AMD introduces its Opteron and Athlon 64 processor lines, based on its AMD64 architecture. Apple also ships the 64-bit "G5" PowerPC 970 CPU courtesy of IBM, along with an update to its Mac OS X operating system which adds partial support for 64-bit mode. Several Linux distributions release with support for AMD64. Microsoft announces plans to create a version of its Windows operating system to support the AMD64 architecture. Intel maintains that its Itanium chips would remain its only 64-bit processors.

2004: Intel, reacting to the market success of AMD, admits it has been developing a clone of the AMD64 extensions named IA-32e (later renamed EM64T). Intel also ships updated versions of its Xeon and Pentium 4 processor families supporting the new instructions. Freescale announces the 64-bit e700 core, successor to their PowerPC G4 series.

2004: VIA Technologies announces the Isaiah 64-bit processor.[2]

2005: On January 31, Sun releases Solaris 10 with support for AMD64 and EM64T processors. Intel releases the EM64T based Pentium Extreme Edition 840 and Pentium D in the second quarter. On April 30, Microsoft releases Windows XP Professional x64 Edition for AMD64 and EM64T processors. In May, AMD introduces its first dual-core AMD64 Opteron and Athlon 64 X2. In July, IBM announces its new dual-core 64-bit PowerPC 970MP. Microsoft releases the Xbox 360 game console based on a 64-bit, triple-core Xenon PowerPC processor manufactured by IBM.

2006: Dual-core Montecito Itanium 2 processors go into production. Sony, IBM, and Toshiba begin manufacturing of the 64-bit Cell processor for use in the PlayStation 3, servers, workstations, and other appliances. Apple features 64-bit EM64T Xeon processors in its new Mac Pro and Intel Xserve computers, and later updates the iMac, MacBook and MacBook Pro to use EM64T Core 2 processors.

2007: Intel's Dual Core and Quad Core become the current 64-bit processors in production based on 65nm technology. The code name "Penryn" processors were the first CPUs to be built off of a 45nm manufacturing technology. They were delivered the third week of November, with 16 processors at launch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

God.


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## PC eye

You still don't get it do you? All that means NADA! to the typical end user despite whatever 64bit development has been seen since whenever. All you have to do is listen to the complaints of those running the Ultimate 64 edition about the lack of driver support on different things.


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## kevlee89

PC eye said:


> You still don't get it do you? All that means NADA! to the typical end user despite whatever 64bit development has been seen since whenever. All you have to do is listen to the complaints of those running the Ultimate 64 edition about the lack of driver support on different things.



true that...*sigh*


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## ThatGuy16

I'm running 64bit, not a single driver problem. And everyone else i know that has 64bit has no problem. Company's are now supporting 64bit as much as 32bit, unlike the 64bit XP version.


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## StrangleHold

PC eye said:


> You still don't get it do you? All that means NADA! to the typical end user despite whatever 64bit development has been seen since whenever. All you have to do is listen to the complaints of those running the Ultimate 64 edition about the lack of driver support on different things.


 
PCeye it doesnt matter what version of 64 bit vista you have they all use the same drivers for Vista 64bit.


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## vonfeldt7

I love how this thread changes from one thing to another, depending on what someone brings up. If this thread is still alive in a year, we'll be arguing about chocolate vs vanilla. (Chocolate wins btw).

Anyways, carry on...


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## PC eye

ThatGuy16 said:


> I'm running 64bit, not a single driver problem. And everyone else i know that has 64bit has no problem. Company's are now supporting 64bit as much as 32bit, unlike the 64bit XP version.


 
Have you talked to everyone that runs a 64bit edtition? While driver support is now far better then seen earlier for XP Pro 64 it still has quite a ways to go only being the second version for home users released. The big companies like Creative, NVidia, ATI, and others obviously have to provide them while other smaller even generic brands often lack.



vonfeldt7 said:


> I love how this thread changes from one thing to another, depending on what someone brings up. If this thread is still alive in a year, we'll be arguing about chocolate vs vanilla. (Chocolate wins btw).
> 
> Anyways, carry on...


 
You forgot strawberry, peach, orange, you name it, and of course rasberries for some!


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## kevlee89

Not sure if this is a 64bit specific problem. Actually, I'm quite certain it's been an issue for both 32bit and 64bit Vista users. Try typing nvlddmkm.sys in google 

So...


Annoying..


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## StrangleHold

PC eye said:


> Have you talked to everyone that runs a 64bit edtition? While driver support is now far better then seen earlier for XP Pro 64 it still has quite a ways to go only being the second version for home users released. The big companies like Creative, NVidia, ATI, and others obviously have to provide them while other smaller even generic brands often lack.


 
PCeye do you even read the post. ThatGuy16 said he had 64bit and everybode he knew that run it. Why do you keep bringing up XP 64bit, nobody gives a crap about XP 64bit, its support was never that good and probable never will be since Vista 64bit has came out. You say alot and most of it is just repetitive nonsence. Its like you just keep repeating obvious noob quotes from web sites.


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## SirKenin

StrangleHold said:


> PCeye it doesnt matter what version of 64 bit vista you have they all use the same drivers for Vista 64bit.


 
What *should* matter is that he says that Microsoft was the first to the game with a 64 bit OS when everyone else dropped the ball..  When it's proven to him that there have been 64 bit operating systems since the 60's he goes off on some stupid tirade about 64 bit drivers in Ultimate.  Last I looked, every 64 bit edition of Vista uses the same drivers.

I'm beginning to wonder if PC is any relation to Anand and Tom Pabst.


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## jutnm

expect vista not to be insufficient on a Laptop,  Vista is good, suck it up and look for the updated drivers , aint that hard


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## f.i.t.h

ThatGuy16 said:


> The guy in the second video is a complete idiot, i would be embarrassed to even post the link





Nevakonaza said:


> the second video is a load of cr*p imo.
> 
> he says Firefox is incompatiable with Vista.....no its not im using firefox right now lol.
> 
> il admit theres been a few problems for me like vista not creating desktop icons when i install some stuff but they was easily fixed.
> 
> then theres User account control.....that was easily disabled.
> 
> Vista imo even though it uses more ram its alot more efficient than Windows xp has ever been.



Dude have you guys even seen his tutorials? This is just one of this rants
Youtube.JimmyR.com
Great tuoruials on a wide range of subjects, a lot more helpful then some of the other shit on the internet.

I have vista, used it for 2 - 3 months and now it is limited to a virtual machine.
Im not saying that its bad, I just prefer XP, like I prefer 2000 and Linux over XP.


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## PC eye

StrangleHold said:


> PCeye do you even read the post. ThatGuy16 said he had 64bit and everybode he knew that run it. Why do you keep bringing up XP 64bit, nobody gives a crap about XP 64bit, its support was never that good and probable never will be since Vista 64bit has came out. You say alot and most of it is just repetitive nonsence. Its like you just keep repeating obvious noob quotes from web sites.


 
Some people knew precisely what I was mentioning there. But apparently that also goes over your head as well.



SirKenin said:


> What *should* matter is that he says that Microsoft was the first to the game with a 64 bit OS when everyone else dropped the ball.. When it's proven to him that there have been 64 bit operating systems since the 60's he goes off on some stupid tirade about 64 bit drivers in Ultimate. Last I looked, every 64 bit edition of Vista uses the same drivers.
> 
> I'm beginning to wonder if PC is any relation to Anand and Tom Pabst.


 
That's not what I said. But as usual you can't seem to get it.  Apparently the concept of "Home User's desktop" not a large reel to reel mainframe is beyond your comprehension! MS and Linux are those that saw any 64bit designs for pc not reel to reel from the 60s or server application along with programming theory.


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## StrangleHold

PC eye said:


> Some people knew precisely what I was mentioning there. But apparently that also goes over your head as well.


 
PCeye look up the word Dolt, study it and remember it!


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## fortyways

in during shitstorm still


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## ShoringFan

PC eye said:


> Do you think for a moment I left things set at the XP themes here? NADA! When first getting into XP those years back I first hated the look! But 98SE was a little outdated by that plus then seeing NTFS over Fat was a sell!
> 
> 2000 wasn't an upgrade to ME since both were out at the same time. 2000 was the upgrade to NT 4.0 there. XP is what combined desktops for home users with the NT core. Many simply refused to upgrade to XP for some time since it was labeled a memory hog for those using the old system with only 64mb and 128mb of installed memory.
> 
> Vista's delay in being released has actually left it behind hardware wise since that moves faster then the software companies as well as MS. Who is worried about a 512mb minimum when new boards handle 16gb of memory? The OSs and chipsets have to keep up there.



How exact !


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## Steve.D

... Because Fedora is sooo much nicer


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