# Custom Computer Business?



## Alien Ware

Hello,

Ive been thinking about starting my own Custom Computer Business in the future. This would most likely only be me building 3-4 types of computers with different price ranges. I would be selling the computers for a bit more then I spent on all of the parts, and insure that the computer works before sale. This business would only exist on Craigslist or Ebay. I'm curious if anyone thinks I would be able to make $1,000 per week more or less from this idea. I figure it would only take about a day to build a rather cheaper computer if I had all of my parts in advance and maybe about 2-3 days for more expensive/advanced computers. This career would save me about 30 grand from not going to college if I decided to do this instead of web design.

-Thanks for reading/replying


----------



## g4m3rof1337

Hello.
It could work out if you plan it right. 

Though you would be competing with Dell and HP, as well as other computer companies. 


I do some freelance graphic/web design, but if you like building and reselling, then this is the type of job. 

It will take some time to get flowing, but be worth it in the end.


----------



## MBGraphics

an it sure will improve you computer building skills 

it's a good idea though


----------



## Vizy

it comes down to 2 things, ADVERTISEMENT and RECOMMENDATIONS. Would you rather go for a reputable company been around for more than 10 yrs or aguy that works of eBay? that line prob. didnt get my point across but u knw what im saying. You need to advertise. I for one would be happy ot recommend you, always a supported a trier. Good luck dude


----------



## tlarkin

There is no money in hardware sales, the mark up and profit margin are nil.  Companies make all their money off of software and support.  Just to give you a heads up.


----------



## Alien Ware

Thanks for the suggestions/support guys. Personally I think I'd be able to build a desktop that is cheaper then Dell/HP but still gain a profit. Most people check ebay for cheap deals and I will also be posting on my local Craigslist. 

-Thanks again, could use some more suggestions. Tlarkin's post brought me down a little


----------



## tlarkin

Alien Ware said:


> Thanks for the suggestions/support guys. Personally I think I'd be able to build a desktop that is cheaper then Dell/HP but still gain a profit. Most people check ebay for cheap deals and I will also be posting on my local Craigslist.
> 
> -Thanks again, could use some more suggestions. Tlarkin's post brought me down a little



I used to work for certified reseller of every single major computer brand.   I was a service tech.  I got a discount for working there which was 5% above cost.  On a brand new $1,000 computer my 5% above cost discount would knock the price down to around $910 just to give you an idea of what major retail chains make off of a single computer profit wise.  Sony and Microsoft lost money on their consoles because they are too expensive to produce.  They make up for it with software licenses, development kits, third party, and of course services.  All technology companies work off this model.  If you can reinvent the wheel and conquerer new grounds you my good man will be a major success.  I'm not saying its impossible, it would just take some genius work.


----------



## g4m3rof1337

And depending on your age, people won't take you serious if your not around 18 or older.


----------



## Alien Ware

I don't think I know anyone under 18 that can afford high quality hardware in bulk amounts . Well not anyone "Normal" 

Tlarkin I really appreciate your comments  Another thing is that I'm not planning on going full out custom PC building like Alienware or something. I just want to do local/maybe some ebay selling and maybe make a decent profit.  Would there significantly cheaper hardware from anywhere else besides common places like Newegg? Ive heard that sometimes during liquidations you can catch some cheap stuff.

-Thanks again guys.


----------



## tlarkin

Alien Ware said:


> I don't think I know anyone under 18 that can afford high quality hardware in bulk amounts . Well not anyone "Normal"
> 
> Tlarkin I really appreciate your comments  Another thing is that I'm not planning on going full out custom PC building like Alienware or something. I just want to do local/maybe some ebay selling and maybe make a decent profit.  Would there significantly cheaper hardware from anywhere else besides common places like Newegg? Ive heard that sometimes during liquidations you can catch some cheap stuff.
> 
> -Thanks again guys.



Hey there are plenty of ways to make money, and some of the richest people in our country never went to or finished college.  Its not impossible it is just not attainable by everyone.  Good luck and I hope you succeed then maybe you can give me a kick ass job down the road.


----------



## Vizy

lol i agree with ^ but i think eBay would help alot because 'locally' how many people wouldneed new computers enoguh to giv u a steady flo o do.


----------



## SirKenin

You'll go bankrupt in under six months. The reason I say that is that it's not the sale itself, it's the after care that will cause you to go under. Once you sell a machine, you're on the hook for the duration of the warranty, which is a standard one year. If *anything* goes wrong with that computer, you'll be called upon. If you're not there, it won't matter if you sell it for .50 above cost, the word will spread like wildfire and you'll be out of business.

Ebay and Paypal will gladly relieve you of all your profits in "fees", and then you'll be working for free. Ebayers won't pay top dollar for a computer or any computer parts unless they're very rare and in high demand. No Ebay feedback, no buyers, and the buyers that do come pay pennies.

It's not just throwing the thing together that costs money, it's all the time you'll have to invest in it afterwards. If you don't build that into the price or somehow factor that into the equation, you won't last six months.

The model I use is that I make small margins on an off-lease computer with a standard 30 day warranty and I only sell locally. However, it's a foot in the door. In the future they call me for service, as I treated them well and gave them a great deal. That's where I make my money. Too many vendors go for the throat on that first sale, not thinking of the long haul or sell too cheap, not planning for the time invested after the sale.

Identify your target market...and believe me. Craigslist and Ebay are NOT your ideal customer.


----------



## BluePlum

Sounds like A very risky buissness. But youve got to ask yourself. Why would you buy a computer from a random who you dont no or the computer will work of ebay ( everything on ebay brakes or broken heh ) and why wouldntthat just buy from DELL? or some other major coperation?

Well i Listen on the bad things But who am i to stop you and your life long computer buissness? GET OUT THERE AND SELL YOUR COMPUTERS!


----------



## tlarkin

> However, it's a foot in the door. In the future they call me for service, as I treated them well and gave them a great deal. That's where I make my money.



If you scroll back to my first post, you will see I clearly outlined this exact thing.  Software licenses and service is how companies make their money.  You think Microsoft makes its money off of their OS sales?  Then obviously none of you have seen how much Vista has sold.  They make money solely off of 1) Licensing, and 2) Service.  It costs what, a minimum of $250 per a service call into Microsoft?  I think thats actually with some sort of plan as well.

Now, given the stability and bloated crappiness of how windows operates, imagine how many thousands of people call MS every day and drop $250 for a service call?  After hours they jack the price up to like $500 per a call.


----------



## teamhex

Alien Ware said:


> Hello,
> 
> Ive been thinking about starting my own Custom Computer Business in the future. This would most likely only be me building 3-4 types of computers with different price ranges. I would be selling the computers for a bit more then I spent on all of the parts, and insure that the computer works before sale. This business would only exist on Craigslist or Ebay. I'm curious if anyone thinks I would be able to make $1,000 per week more or less from this idea. I figure it would only take about a day to build a rather cheaper computer if I had all of my parts in advance and maybe about 2-3 days for more expensive/advanced computers. This career would save me about 30 grand from not going to college if I decided to do this instead of web design.
> 
> -Thanks for reading/replying



$1000 a week doesnt really sound fesiable. Also how are you to just have the parts onhand? Are you just building 3-4 types? You wont offer any customizing?(important to me and others too). Id say if you did it right you might be able to, but I doubt you could make that much profit a week.


----------



## newguy5

if you do this you also have to submit your earnings to the IRS and pay taxes on those earnings.

about 70% of businesses fail in the first two years, and even if that means sitting at home and selling loafs of bread to your neighbor for a profit, that's classified as a business.  i really don't think it's a great idea.  i believe the people on ebay don't just build computers, but sell other consumer electronics and the computer realm is just a little added income, albeit a smaller one than selling tvs, cameras, etc.


----------



## Alien Ware

Let me give an example ebay business that is pretty much what I would like to do.
http://www.toratek.com/

Check the ebay listings on the website and also their feedback.... they have sold many Custom Gaming Computers in the past year.


----------



## Vizy

AlienWare no1 here is trying to put u down....just we want u to understand its not as easy as it sounds. This is a side job correct? But just understand ur not gonna make that much.


----------



## toratek

*Hey there - this is Toratek*



Alien Ware said:


> Let me give an example ebay business that is pretty much what I would like to do.
> http://www.toratek.com/
> 
> Check the ebay listings on the website and also their feedback.... they have sold many Custom Gaming Computers in the past year.



I wanted to weigh in and give you my personal opinion about starting your own computer business: do it only if you absolutely love computers and like the IT industry as a whole. If you're going into this for the money, you might be looking in the wrong place. It is a very competitive market, and I'm sorry to say this, but I see allot of people on eBay that are firmly convinced that just because of the simple fact that they can connect a couple of cables and twist a few wires here and there, they have "custom gaming computer business". I have been building computer systems since before I went to high school, and worked in a couple of local computer shops. I've also studied Industrial Design, and have a degree in computer programming. Gaming systems are not my favorite, because I've built workstations and small servers in the past, and had allot more fun doing that. But then again, by building so many types of computer systems, I have the experience to get things right the first time and build solid machines. It takes allot of passion and dedication and a strong will to do this. From everything that I see, you're looking at this in the wrong way:
- You want to buy and sell cheap, and at the same time you want to do this on eBay. The only market you will find is the worst niche market out there: folks that want a custom computer system, that is "cool" and has all the "bells and whistles" and is not just another "ugly" Dell, Gateway or HP, but they don't want to pay the Custom Boutique PC price tag. I see this on eBay every 10 to 15 minutes,or so, someone is posting some listing trying to undercut someone else. Remember this: those who start price wars loose them. A perfect example of this would be "Monarch Computers" that went Bankrupt because they where trying to undercut their competition, and at the same time had a bad product. This days it's like they never existed, www.monarchcomputer.com doesn't even exist anymore.  They where selling computer systems, motherboard+cpu+ram combos (why in the world did they do this???) and parts. Just google Monarch Computers and see for yourself. Another example that is very real is Intel vs. AMD. Back in 2006, AMD started a price war with Intel. Guess who lost? Yes, it was AMD. Intel responded by cutting their own prices to such a degree that everyone could afford a high performing CPU, either by buying something that would fit their budget or trough over clocking. And it didn't really matter, because no one has any reason to buy and AMD CPU anymore, no matter how cheap it is. The only time that you can start undercutting your competitor is when you have a superior product that you can manufacture for less than your are selling it. Basically if you can sell for less than your competitor and still turn a decent profit, then you can start undercutting your competitor. Most folks on eBay can't really undercut their competitors, so what they end up doing is: they quit after a while. But while they are doing this, they create allot of buyer confusion. For eBay this is good, because they get to cash in on fees, but for everyone else it's bad, because with so many "Ultimate Gaming Computer"  listings on eBay, it is hard for the buyer to decide what to buy. So, you will get lost and just be another listing. My head is spinning when I see most of this listings, most of them claiming to offer the "Ultimate Gaming Experience" for cheap, but yet those listings look like they where put together by a little kid in kinder garden playing with Microsoft Paint for the first time. They just look horrible and are hard to understand.
- You want to build "only" 3-4 different computer models: it takes experience. Again, I'm getting back to twisting wires and connecting cables. Not everything goes well while building a system, and if you don't have the experience to diagnose hardware right away, then it will be a long, expensive and cumbersome learning experience. Most folks want their systems customized, so you will end up building what ever they want. If you don't have the fundamentals down in regards to what makes the computer tick, you will be in trouble.
- You think that this is easy: Wrong. This is not easy at all. Just putting together quality eBay listings is very time consuming. Then you need some basic knowledge in design, good taste, and a bit of marketing. If you have the "custom computer building & supporting" down, then you will face another bigger problem: getting your name out there. The Boutique PC market is huge,  and there is a demand for quality computer systems and support, but not on eBay. 
- You want to compete with HP and Dell: You can't. When you have at least one building facility somewhere in China, or a company that is willing to build for you there, then you'll be able to compete with them. Boutique PC makers aren't competing with HP and Dell, and HP and Dell know this, and that is why HP owns VooDoo PC and Dell owns Alienware. Let me put it this way: Do you see BMW competing with Hyundai or Toyota? No! That is why Toyota owns Lexus, which competes with BMW. Different markets, different customers, different prices. Same with Boutique PCs. They are bought by people who want a quality computers systems, and most of them keep a expensive custom computer system between 3 to 5 years. It is a much smarter investment than say a cheap Gateway computer, because custom computer systems are built from high quality parts (at least I know what to put in there and what to stay away from). For example all Gateway computers use cheap Bytec power supplies, which don't last more that 1.5 years or so, if the computer is used regularly. Let alone if you add a couple of hard drives and a better Video Card, that lifespan is drastically cut. If you're out of the 1 year warranty, and the PSU died on you (and those Bytec PSUs also kill the motherboard and maybe the Video Card), you either pay some shop to fix it, or buy another one. In the end you could spend more on the crappy Gateway than if you would have bought a quality custom built computer. Most folks don't look at it this way, because most folks don't think long term. This is your main marketing asset: Quality above all. Price is a secondary tool, and try to sell cheap only when sales are slow, so you can get by. 
- How much do Boutique Builders make? Most quality builders make between $1000 and $2000 per PC (on their very high end stuff), around $800 per PC on their mid range systems, and $300 to $400 per PC on low end stuff (I consider low en systems between $1200 and $1800). This estimate doesn't include Alienware, Falcon NW, Voodoo PC and a couple other big names that have sell their systems for grossly inflated prices. The problem is not the price, but value (what you are getting for your money). Falcon NW for instance is using EVGA motherboards in their high end systems. I find it ridiculous to spend something like $8000 on a SLI system that is using such a low quality motherboard. They are notoriously unreliable. I'm also selling those boards, but I always give my customers an ASUS or Gigabyte alternative for the same price, because reliability is more important to me. On eBay you can expect to make somewhere around $200 to $300 per system, and this on the high end systems that cost over $2000, but sometimes less. You have eBay fees, PayPal, and a couple of other things like packaging materials, and building materials for the computer system. The margin is so paper thin, that the only thing eBay is good for is so that you can start somewhere to make a name for yourself, but you'll never be able to make a living there.

For me, creating Toratek Custom Computers was a life long dream, but at the same time it is an up hill battle, mostly because it is hard to get my name out there. If college for you is only $30,000, then I'd suggest you for it, because it is much cheaper than doing this. Remember, you must be passionate about it, and very enthusiastic, and that passion and enthusiast must be there even when you're facing hard times or sales are low, other wise you won't make it. I don't mind anyone who wants to do this, because the market is huge. The problem is that to many folks that want to do this have unrealistic expectations and try to compete in the market place by undercutting everyone else. Countless times I've seen this on eBay: "Better than Alienware for less than half the price", or similar advertising in different listings. Alienware, Falcon NW, VooDoo PC and others wouldn't be around anymore if they could be put out of business by ebay sellers or smaller Boutique builders (like myself) just by selling for cheaper than they do. Now, when you match the build quality of say, a Falcon NW "Mach V" or VooDoo PC "Omen", match their service and customer support, and do all this for less, then you can make claims like that. Most of that profit that they make is spent on "keeping the lights on", paying the employees, advertising, marketing, research, oh, and taxes of course. 

This where just my 2 cents. I know that I'm not right about everything, so if anyone wants to comment on what I've said here, please feel free to do so. What ever you decide to do, think really hard about it, because this is not as easy as it looks. 

Marc from Toratek Custom Computers


----------



## SergioCHQ

Alien Ware said:


> Hello,
> 
> Ive been thinking about starting my own Custom Computer Business in the future. This would most likely only be me building 3-4 types of computers with different price ranges. I would be selling the computers for a bit more then I spent on all of the parts, and insure that the computer works before sale. This business would only exist on Craigslist or Ebay. I'm curious if anyone thinks I would be able to make $1,000 per week more or less from this idea. I figure it would only take about a day to build a rather cheaper computer if I had all of my parts in advance and maybe about 2-3 days for more expensive/advanced computers. This career would save me about 30 grand from not going to college if I decided to do this instead of web design.
> 
> -Thanks for reading/replying



 I think you should at least take some business courses, accounting, things of that nature. Learn how to build a business plan. Figure what your mark up for each part would be plus labor. Figure out the fine line where you are selling cheap enough to take people form the competition but still making enough profit to keep your company alive until your established. Customer service goes a long way. Treat everybody like they are the most important person in your life.


----------



## tlarkin

I can tell you right now, consumers do not drive the computer business.  They may drive the ipod, cell phone and the like business.  When it comes to just plain out computer desktop sales though, enterprise runs drives businesses.  An individual will order 1 or 2 computers tops.  A company will order hundreds or thousands at a time.

Also, from a support stand point, working on custom built systems from an Enterprise perspective is ridiculous.  It would be a huge pain to have an image for every custom built system with its own drivers and what not, and then on top of all that, I would have to warranty out each part individually.

Custom built PCs is a niche market, just like custom building anything - cars, motorcycles, wood working, sculpture, metal working, glass blowing, etc etc

If it weren't a niche market everyone would do it.  You have to be innovative in one way or another to make it, or be able to offer something someone else can't.  otherwise, why would I buy a custom built machine by you, when I can buy a custom built machine by dell, get a three year warranty, onsite support, tech support, and probably cost me less money.

You need a more broad plan than just custom building computers.  When I contracted on the side I advertised that I did everything.  I got calls for everything from repair, set up, networking data recovery, etc.  I just did what I could and turned down jobs I know that I couldn't do, due to time or other issues that I knew I would encounter.  However, I always recommended someone else I knew.


----------



## The_Beast

$1,000 a week is too much to expect

+ I wouldn't trust a warranty from a ebay seller


----------



## cole4eng

toratek said:


> I wanted to weigh in and give you my personal opinion about starting your own computer business: do it only if you absolutely love computers and like the IT industry as a whole. If you're going into this for the money, you might be looking in the wrong place. It is a very competitive market, and I'm sorry to say this, but I see allot of people on eBay that are firmly convinced that just because of the simple fact that they can connect a couple of cables and twist a few wires here and there, they have "custom gaming computer business". I have been building computer systems since before I went to high school, and worked in a couple of local computer shops. I've also studied Industrial Design, and have a degree in computer programming. ....
> 
> Marc from Toratek Custom Computers


This is a great post, thanks. I'm curious though, do you utilise your studies in Industrial design or more importantly your degree in computer programming?. I've programmed in C recently and I don't know where this type of prgramming would be useful in relevance to this topic. I'm in the final stage of my Electronics course.

I think anybody who has opened up a computer and played around with the parts inside thinks that they can make a killing by selling computers, highly unlikely, you NEED EXPERIENCE. What if a computer you sell has a faulty hard drive, which has corrupted Windows files to the point where it won't boot. The question you get asked is "My computer won't work".. I know highly detailed question, but in the majority of cases that's what you're dealing with, how on earth are you going to answer that ?... equally importantly do you have time to answer that ?. Also how is a consumer to know if you take the proper anti-static precautions, that said..do you?.

The only way I could see this business working is if:-
Initially...
- You have NO or extremely little overheads.
- You make a promise to honour the warranty and deliver service when necessary.
- You build a quality product and make an effort not to build systems that are foreign to you, e.g. if you can build a quality Intel product, stick with Intel don't suddenly change to AMD because at the time it was more cost effective.

Then..
- Through word of mouth you will hopefully have a number of established clients and a solid flow of incoming work.
- You'll get known for producing a quality product.
- There'll be less of a demand for call outs because through your previous call outs you would've establish what the common concerns with the system are and adjusted your product and accompanying manuals accordingly.
- You'll start to make a profit and from here you can decide what your future aspirations are.

All that said I'm sure I'm overlooking a lot.

Taxes have been mentioned, to the best of my knowledge if you do callouts as part of your customer support then your fuel consumption is tax deductible, this is an example of where a solid understanding of small business management is required.

I absolutely believe $1000 per week is a far way off, more like half, if your lucky, but who knows what the future holds.


----------



## Kill Bill

Alien Ware said:


> I don't think I know anyone under 18 that can afford high quality hardware in bulk amounts . Well not anyone "Normal"
> 
> Tlarkin I really appreciate your comments  Another thing is that I'm not planning on going full out custom PC building like Alienware or something. I just want to do local/maybe some ebay selling and maybe make a decent profit.  Would there significantly cheaper hardware from anywhere else besides common places like Newegg? Ive heard that sometimes during liquidations you can catch some cheap stuff.
> 
> -Thanks again guys.



For advertising I suggest ring up custom pc magizine. Every month they have an issue. Heres the site

http://www.custompc.co.uk/

My advice. Start building pcs for your town or state then tell them your going to do it online on ebay. And then they can purchase stuff from there and give you lots of +Comments. As for warrenty give them 1 year free and if it damages they can post it back to ya and send them back like 150 for the shipping of the item with a note saying all is repaired now


----------



## Kill Bill

The_Beast said:


> $1,000 a week is too much to expect
> 
> + I wouldn't trust a warranty from a ebay seller



Still it wont fly even if its thousand a week. He/she would need another job


----------



## Cleric7x9

I work for a customer computer company, we are called Computer Builder's Warehouse out of Boca Raton, Florida. I can tell you right now that 85% of our profit comes from service/repair, not selling custom computers. We build on average of about 100 computers every month.


----------



## toratek

*But, then what about....*



Cleric7x9 said:


> I work for a customer computer company, we are called Computer Builder's Warehouse out of Boca Raton, Florida. I can tell you right now that 85% of our profit comes from service/repair, not selling custom computers. We build on average of about 100 computers every month.



But then, how do other companies like Alienware, VooDoo PC, Falcon NW make money ? Or forget those, how about Pugets Systems (or Puget Custom Computers), www.pugetsystems.com ? They are selling pretty well.

It is hardly possible to find out how much money a company makes in profit every year, but for instance Falcon NW had sales of $5.000.000 (five million) dollars in 2006. Lets just say that they've made around $2 million in profit (judging from their markup), that is still pretty damn good. You guys can further research this companies by looking at Forbes and other online publications, most of it is public information.

All this companies are Boutique Builders. They specialize in custom computer systems. Take a look at http://www.resellerratings.com/ and you'll see that plenty of people are buying from them. 

The original poster was talking about building custom PCs, and not going head to head with the low end or budget market, where the big companies own the market. As a small Boutique Builder, you don't go after Gateway (which is owned by Acer now) and try to compete with them on the $299-$1000 computer systems. Even Gateway, maybe makes $50 in profit / system, or a little more. Or maybe I miss understood him? Well, anyway, the bottom line was (at least from what I got) that he was hoping to easily make $1000/week. Is it doable? Absolutely, but it will take all your time and energy.

Every company that tried to make a profit from "selling cheap" has had financial trouble. Gateway had to close all their stores because they couldn't sustain them anymore, and then they had to sell out to Acer. Gateways are cheap on everage, but you'll get what you pay for.

HP is the No. 1 (numero uno!) computer manufacturer in the world. Most of their profit comes from their business / enterprise sales, and the server / workstation market, oh, and printers / office products. The least of their profits comes from the low end and sub $1000 PCs. Yet, they keep a presence in that market because they and, and because they don't want anyone else to take their place in that market. 

But even HP realized that there is money to be made in the Boutique PC market, and that is why they've bought VooDoo PC (and because they needed a new image for that market). They are also trying to sell custom PCs under their own name, and that is why they've created HP Blackbird 002, with  "VooDoo DNA", which is just a marketing thing that tells the customer that their Blackbird 002 has been designed by the good folks at VooDoo PC, and to create a bridge between their own brand, as HP and the Boutique Market.

The bottom line is that selling computers of any kind is not the same as selling Boutique PCs. Many companies, like for instance UberclockPC are trying to promote an image of Quality Gaming PC at a low price. Again, you get what you pay for. To have a successful business you have to sell first of Quality, Service and Performance in equal amounts. Most top (the very expensive ones) Boutique builders have free overnight shipping service that is for the duration of the warranty, and their systems are built by skilled technicians. Look at a VooDoo PC "Omen" and you will see how clean and efficient it's built. I build all the PCs I'm selling, and I can tell that there allot of work involved. But in contrast to many builders, I do every and any customization that the customer asks for (of course, if it's humanly possible). 

There is a gap in the market between those high end and the rest. Most people (including me) are trying to fill that gap, but if you can't match the quality of the high for less money, then don't worry about the rest of the market, because you'll never be able to compete with the bigger players.

I've wrote all this because I'm trying to explain to the original poster that he either does it as good as he can, and gives %100 and builds quality high end PCs that are nicely customized with unique customizations, or he doesn't do it at all. Doing it part time and trying to make $1000/week won't fly. Not on eBay, and definitively not in his local area. 

As far as making money from repairs, that market is slowly going away to. Services like "Geek Squad" from Best Buy are making sure of that. Most folks that need PC repairs or software repair (including virus removal, OS reinstall and what not) are those that just need a "working computer" to do their stuff. They don't have high end computers, and most important, they are very frugal when it comes to spending money on PC related stuff.

This could go on and on, and everyone, including me, could weigh in with our opinions (because everyone has one and most of them if not all don't really matter), but if you're not going to at least try your best to be the best at what you are doing, then you will not succeed. 

Also, this days most people can build their own PCs from parts, and it is for the same reason that there are so many builders out there. If you are going after the market of those who try to compromise (they aren't that good at building their own stuff, but they still want a custom system) then you will not make money. 

And if I wouldn't be doing this, but something else for a living, then I would buy a custom Gaming Computer (because I like to play games) from one of the top builders. It is worth spending the extra coin to get a quality computer system. But if I would want to save money, I would build my own. And this is how most people think.

Thank you for reading this, and I apologize for any grammatical errors in my posting, but I type this up pretty fast.

Marc from Toratek Custom Computers


----------



## tlarkin

Alienware was going out of business and Dell bought them up nice and cheap.  That is how they survived.


----------



## toratek

tlarkin said:


> Alienware was going out of business and Dell bought them up nice and cheap.  That is how they survived.



It's kind of hard to know what their finances where in 2006 when the acquisition happened, but they are overcharging customers for the type of service they are offering, poor quality craftsmanship, and components of average quality, like low quality power supplies, motherboards and so on. That being said, here are some facts from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alienware):

"Alienware was originally established to tap a niche in the high performance game market, which back then was not on the radar of the major PC manufacturers such as Dell. Since high-end game hardware was not widely distributed, the company's founders formed an OEM which sold personal computers with the highest performing hardware and settings according to benchmarks.The company products are not only famous for their outstanding hardware configurations but also for their spectacular designs."

- A bit of marketing here, but the truth is that they have poor ratings on ressellerratings.com (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Alienware):6.35/10. Compare that to a a small  company like Puget Custom Computers (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Puget_Custom_Computers) that has a rating of 9.91/10, even do they should have a 10/10 for the excellent way that they are handling every complaint. This is proof that good service goes a long way. 

- Alienware design isn't anything spectacular, and their enclosures are fairly cheap, not to mention that the cooling systems they employ are pretty poor quality.


"Alienware established its EMEA (Europe, the Middle East, and Africa) headquarters in Athlone, Ireland in October 2002. As of FY 2005, Alienware brought in upwards of $170 million USD in annual sales, while undertaking an international expansion initiative launched in 2003 to maintain a presence in Australia, Canada, France, Germany, United Kingdom, and Costa Rica. Alienware has had a call center in Costa Rica to handle all sales and support calls for a number of years. Additionally, Alienware allows you to send in old computer hardware in exchange for credit towards new hardware."

- They have 700 employees World Wide, and make $170 million in sales/year!  Folks, this ain't a small shop at all!. Yet they outsource everything, and because greed is a factor in their business, they might go bely up. You can't manufacture high end custom systems (what exactly is custom about Alienware anyway?) the same way you do low end. All their laptops and bare bone systems are built in South America. Alienware, if you're reading this, Custom Boutique PC means Assembled in the good ol' U.S. of A.! For the money that they are asking for their systems, they owe their customers at least that much. This is the ONLY reason why folks spend so much money on a computer, because they want excelent customer service, and high quality parts/assembly. 

- But you're right, the way they handle business, they might go out of business. Or, in the future you'll see an Alienware system next to your Dell, HP and Gateway for slightly more at your local Best Buy. I'm sure people would buy them even if they're going to be dog slow, because at say $1500, why not own one? That will last until they saturate that market to. But I'm just speculating here, hehe.


----------



## porterjw

Alienware is an exception to the rule. Yes, they are a niche market, but the prices they charge are obscene. If someone is going to spend $3000 on parts that cost $1200, 'next-generation' parts that are barely better that mainstream ones today just to play a game at 3 FPS better, and a piss-poor (and hella-ugly!) example of a case  they're either fools, or have completely different priorities than most folks. The price vs. what you actually get is like spending money that would buy you a Mercedes and getting a Honda in return.


----------



## toratek

imsati said:


> Alienware is an exception to the rule. Yes, they are a niche market, but the prices they charge are obscene. If someone is going to spend $3000 on parts that cost $1200, 'next-generation' parts that are barely better that mainstream ones today just to play a game at 3 FPS better, and a piss-poor (and hella-ugly!) example of a case  they're either fools, or have completely different priorities than most folks. The price vs. what you actually get is like spending money that would buy you a Mercedes and getting a Honda in return.



I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you


----------



## tlarkin

170 million dollars of sales means absolutely dick unless we know the profit margin, and since their systems cost an arm and a leg, plus the cost of support and to employ their staff we have no idea actually how much profit they were making.

When I was contracting my rates were $75 to $200 per an hour, that is pure profit per an hour.  Which is more money than you will make doing one job than off several hardware sales.


----------



## toratek

tlarkin said:


> 170 million dollars of sales means absolutely dick unless we know the profit margin, and since their systems cost an arm and a leg, plus the cost of support and to employ their staff we have no idea actually how much profit they were making.
> 
> When I was contracting my rates were $75 to $200 per an hour, that is pure profit per an hour.  Which is more money than you will make doing one job than off several hardware sales.



Since their systems are so expensive (actually there is not value in buying an Alienware System), and they have 170 million dollars per year in sales, you can imagine that their profits are huge. Add to that the fact that they've outsourced everything to South America and China, so they don't have to pay huge wages. But who really cares? No one in the enthusiast community considers them true custom builders anymore. The market will have its say, and one day they will fail and go out of business. Then Dell will discard them to Acer or Lenovo or who knows what company from Asia. Or maybe not? Who cares... they don't bother me a bit.


----------



## zach6490

there new laptop is awesome, there not going under anytime soon.  Yes their stuff is way overpriced.


----------



## Alien Ware

Thanks a lot for all of these well explained posts toratek. I didn't know you used these forums


----------



## Alien Ware

Another question toratek... you build all of your custom computer correct? On average how much money do you make per week?


----------



## toratek

Alien Ware said:


> Another question toratek... you build all of your custom computer correct? On average how much money do you make per week?



I largely depends on the number of systems that you're selling. This will be largely up to you, how desirable your product is, and how good the craftsmanship is.  Take a look at www.uberclok.com for instance. They make $400/system, but I wouldn't buy one. There is nothing that appeals to them.

Later, Marc.


----------



## tlarkin

toratek said:


> Since their systems are so expensive (actually there is not value in buying an Alienware System), and they have 170 million dollars per year in sales, you can imagine that their profits are huge. Add to that the fact that they've outsourced everything to South America and China, so they don't have to pay huge wages. But who really cares? No one in the enthusiast community considers them true custom builders anymore. The market will have its say, and one day they will fail and go out of business. Then Dell will discard them to Acer or Lenovo or who knows what company from Asia. Or maybe not? Who cares... they don't bother me a bit.



How much do they spend on advertising every year?  I mean they have to spend 10s of millions to put their ads all over the web and in every freaking computer publication out there.  Not to mention pay their staff, and manufacture their product.  Sure they may make 170 million but in retrospect after you pay for everything how much profit is that?

The system builder I was working for had a bonus pay system where it kept track of every technician by the money they made.  I once made the company 28,000 dollars in one week.  Of course that was before we took out costs, and my salary, and every other thing that nickels and dimes you.  I mean our utility bill for our shop each month was like 45k or something ridiculous like that.  That was for power, running water, heat and air conditioning.  That doesn't include lease or mortgage either, that was just utilities.

Then you add the cost of overhead, office supplies, office equipment, so on and so forth.

I know that the only reason Dell would buy anyone out (since Dell has been losing money as well) would be because they do it for dirt cheap.

I will say this once more and I am done with this thread.  It is very hard to make a living purely off hardware sales because the mark up on them is really low.  Plus you have to pay your dues to MS to become an licnesed reseller and OEM systems builder, or they will sue your pants off; and I bet they have way more lawyers than you do.  I know this as a fact because a friend of mine worked for local company back in the day that got audited and sued by microsoft for breaking their systems builder LA.  

Then you have to compete with everything and everyone else.  Try advertising in your local free weekly magazine, every major city has one, a quarter page ad only costs you like $2,000.  

I am not trying to crush your dreams I am just trying to be realistic about it.  Like I said, if you can innovate some new business model and change it, then do it, however you will make the bulk of your money from supporting your product and charging for your services.


----------



## porterjw

> I will say this once more and I am done with this thread. It is very hard to make a living purely off hardware sales because the mark up on them is really low.



^ Ditto. I make *maybe* 5% (and that's being super-liberal) of my income by hardware sales (custom-built systems, someone says 'I want a sweet video card added to my system', etc.). The real money is in service, maintenance, and repair (for Home Clients), and in my monthly 'spend a day at their office to repair/add/whatever they need from 9 to 5' for my Small Business ones.


----------



## D2jsp

I think this would be a good idea if your willing to put in the time.. I went to college and im still paying back my student loan. Also I would rather buy custom build computers from individuals then major companies because you know that 1 person cares about their company unlike dell, HP, ect.


----------



## toratek

tlarkin said:


> I know this as a fact because a friend of mine worked for local company back in the day that got audited and sued by microsoft for breaking their systems builder LA.



 Sounds like it's their fault for breaking the System Builder LA. I mean, the license is pretty clear on what you can with their OEM software.


----------



## PunterCam

Slagging alienware nowadays eh? They sell the best pc's out there in my opinion, yes they're expensive, but if I had the money (and for a huge amount of people, buying one would be pennys) I'd have one in a shot. I only know one person who has one, and apparently the after sales service is unreal, they can't do enough. That alone would sell me it, rather than the usual ¨my hard drive failed, I only bought it 2 weeks ago¨. ¨I'm sorry sir, that's just how it goes¨ or ¨you want blank DVD's?¨.

People talk about custom pc building like it's an art, and people should be impressed, but any monkey can do it, there is absolutely nothing technical about it. There is no market for custom built computers, you can get a dell sooo cheap if you just need an internet station (I'd struggle to build one for much under their selling price, may £10 here and there), and if you want a bit of style you get an imac.

I don't bother building computers anymore, too much hassle for too little gain. Yeah, maybe I'd've saved myself a couple of hundered when i bough my mac, but **** it, I've got a mac. It always works, I can run osx and windows, I don't wonder why it sometimes locks up for a moment, or why the cd drive sometimes dissapears from 'my computer', because someone else has been through these problems and fixed them long before I got my hands on it. Plus I've got an uber quite piece of aluminium art sitting in my room, not some plastic vibrating shithouse


----------



## tlarkin

toratek said:


> Sounds like it's their fault for breaking the System Builder LA. I mean, the license is pretty clear on what you can with their OEM software.



They won their case against MS and then counter-suited them because of the slander it brought their business.  I have seen a lot in my time as far as software licensing goes, and a lot of people do not comply 100% with their licenses.  I just got done deploying CS3 at work.  We have a site license, which consists of actually this:  500 installs in company, and 50 take home installs.  Now, with my new inventory system in place it logs every thing I install and I have only hit about 150 machines that needed it so far and maybe 3 or 4 take homes.  If I get audited I have an inventory system that can generate a PDF, HTML, XML, or whatever sheet that I can send them proving my installs.

Back when MS sued this company it was like in 1997, and that kind of technology wasn't around, it was done by hand on real paper with a pen back then, or through some shoddy manual data inputted database.  So, yeah MS attacked a lot of people back then because it was easier for them to justify it, which created a market for guess what?  Inventory software for your software licenses.


----------



## tlarkin

PunterCam said:


> Slagging alienware nowadays eh? They sell the best pc's out there in my opinion, yes they're expensive, but if I had the money (and for a huge amount of people, buying one would be pennys) I'd have one in a shot. I only know one person who has one, and apparently the after sales service is unreal, they can't do enough. That alone would sell me it, rather than the usual ¨my hard drive failed, I only bought it 2 weeks ago¨. ¨I'm sorry sir, that's just how it goes¨ or ¨you want blank DVD's?¨.
> 
> People talk about custom pc building like it's an art, and people should be impressed, but any monkey can do it, there is absolutely nothing technical about it. There is no market for custom built computers, you can get a dell sooo cheap if you just need an internet station (I'd struggle to build one for much under their selling price, may £10 here and there), and if you want a bit of style you get an imac.
> 
> I don't bother building computers anymore, too much hassle for too little gain. Yeah, maybe I'd've saved myself a couple of hundered when i bough my mac, but **** it, I've got a mac. It always works, I can run osx and windows, I don't wonder why it sometimes locks up for a moment, or why the cd drive sometimes dissapears from 'my computer', because someone else has been through these problems and fixed them long before I got my hands on it. Plus I've got an uber quite piece of aluminium art sitting in my room, not some plastic vibrating shithouse




My old job was supporting and administering 10,000 desktops/notebooks and about 65 servers with about a 3% Mac population.  All servers running Novell (netware or suse) and windows 2k3.  Almost all desktops and notebooks for HP business class, servers were all HP Proliant.  My current job is managing 6,000 Macs and 20 Xserves on a complete OD mac back bone network. 

I'd rather work with the Macs any and every day over a windows box or a windows server.


----------



## toratek

PunterCam said:


> People talk about custom pc building like it's an art, and people should be impressed, but any monkey can do it, there is absolutely nothing technical about it. There is no market for custom built computers, you can get a dell sooo cheap if you just need an internet station (I'd struggle to build one for much under their selling price, may £10 here and there), and if you want a bit of style you get an imac.



Take a look here: www.murderbox.com

Now, you where saying ... what ?


----------



## tlarkin

toratek said:


> Take a look here: www.murderbox.com
> 
> Now, you where saying ... what ?



I'm not impressed.  I have fixed and taken apart screw for screw, laptops, desktops, every mac product, high def tvs, cars, appliances (washer and dishwasher, and food disposals), a variety of guns, cell phones, console systems, etc.

Anyone can do it, it really is just assembling parts in a box for the most part with computers.  Its not like murderbox does anything the consumer can't, and I doubt it could match the customer service of the larger companies or the support you get, because it can't afford the staff to do it.

I have had such bad luck even contacting smaller businesses because they have one guy answering the phone for the whole company.

There is nothing that murderbox can build that some teenager on this forum can't.


----------



## Interested

that is one hella sweet murderbox.


----------



## toratek

tlarkin said:


> I'm not impressed.  I have fixed and taken apart screw for screw, laptops, desktops, every mac product, high def tvs, cars, appliances (washer and dishwasher, and food disposals), a variety of guns, cell phones, console systems, etc.
> 
> Anyone can do it, it really is just assembling parts in a box for the most part with computers.  Its not like murderbox does anything the consumer can't, and I doubt it could match the customer service of the larger companies or the support you get, because it can't afford the staff to do it.
> 
> I have had such bad luck even contacting smaller businesses because they have one guy answering the phone for the whole company.
> 
> There is nothing that murderbox can build that some teenager on this forum can't.



That case has been cut, sand blasted and put back together... But anyway, what is your point? I could bring the same argument about cars, after all I could build my own... right? 

Since you where praising Alienware, take a look here: http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Alienware

Then look at other companies like VooDoo PC, Falcon NW and Puget Systems. Puget is a small company by the way, but they have a great staff.

And since you're claiming that it's better to do business with the big dogs, here is something for you: Alienware started small to, and it took them a while to get where they're at. So why would you put down the smaller builders? Some will make it, and most will go away. Your arguments don't have much validity, because in theory anyone could do anything.

Care to talk C.B. radios with me? Oh, but wait, in your opinion CB shops shouldn't exist either, because after all, even a monkey could take apart/mod/fix a CB radio... Gimme a break...


----------



## tlarkin

toratek said:


> That case has been cut, sand blasted and put back together... But anyway, what is your point? I could bring the same argument about cars, after all I could build my own... right?



*sigh*

Its a niche market, most people just want to buy a PC or a Mac, and don't want to have to hassle with anything custom built, unless they them self are a hobbyist of some sort.  Then, they will most likely want to do it them self.



> Since you where praising Alienware, take a look here: http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Alienware



When did I ever praise alienware?  I would never ever own any of their way over priced systems.



> Then look at other companies like VooDoo PC, Falcon NW and Puget Systems. Puget is a small company by the way, but they have a great staff.
> 
> And since you're claiming that it's better to do business with the big dogs, here is something for you: Alienware started small to, and it took them a while to get where they're at. So why would you put down the smaller builders? Some will make it, and most will go away. Your arguments don't have much validity, because in theory anyone could do anything.



Here is the problem, and you are failing to see this.  First off all computer companies started off small, but if I have a failed part on my $3000 custom built desktop I want to call support and have that god damn part over nighted to me the next day for warranty replacement.  Do those companies meet those standards?



> Care to talk C.B. radios with me? Oh, but wait, in your opinion CB shops shouldn't exist either, because after all, even a monkey could take apart/mod/fix a CB radio... Gimme a break...



I never said they shouldn't exist, I said there is not a lot of money in it.  My main point and overall point is, that if you want to make money you can't do it off of hardware sales.  The CD radio guys don't make their money off selling the product, they make their money off of servicing it.


----------



## toratek

I am sorry, that was PunterCam that praised Alienware.
It seems to me that everyone is mixing up here the different markets. I am also selling custom computers systems, and no, and am not selling your garden variety "ultimate gaming system" bullshit. Most of my customers want custom powerful systems to get actual work done. Some of them want workstation to do CAM/CAD, rendering or video editing, but they don't want to pay companies like BOXX for something like that, and some want to have 100% control over their choices. But all of them want their systems personalized. No, Murderbox is not impressive for me at all, I have built machines many times more powerful than theirs. Not everyone wants to build their own system. The enthusiast that play with exotic hardware are doing it because that's their hobby. But some people can't make the distinction. 

No one will overnight you anything for your $3000 system. Falcon NW for the 1 year period of warranty will have FedEx overnight it from you to them and back if something is wrong with the system, but no one else does that. I do cross shipping for all my customers if they need replacement parts and can install them themselves. I am very flexible when it comes to this stuff. But no one else does it in the consumer market. Now if we're talking commercial/enterprise support, well, that's a different ball game. 

Look, I completely agree with you: Most of todays builders are full of shit. I've been looking at Falcon NW systems, and for the $10K I can't even get my damn video cards liquid cooled. And they charge all this for the privilege of owning a "custom system", with their only customization being the "exotic" paint job (you'll have to shell out $1400 or so). They are using sub standard Silverstone Strider power supplies. Silverstone is a good company, and some of their power supplies are awesome (the Zeus line is Tier 1, the Olymia line is Tier 2, but still great, and the Strider is made by Enhance and it sucks). They use the same crappy EVGA motherboards like everyone else, and cheap liquid cooling... Of course I don't agree either. Alienware? Same crap, cheap everything, low quality craftsmanship. I've seen how this systems are built.

Now I couldn't say anything bad about Puget Systems for instance because they handle their business very good, and offer some real cool customizations, that most others don't, including a custom Antec 182 case fused with a Coolance Liquid Cooling System. Go to their website www.pugetsystems.com and look. That's not something that every teenager does. Also, their website is Full of Facts, not Full of Shit. That's the type of business model I want to follow, be open and honest and helpful to my customer, and not full of crap.

In this niche market, most will take your money and run with it. I see your arguments, and by no means did I intend to offend you, and I am sorry if I did so, please accept my apologies.


----------



## tlarkin

Being a self maintainer for Gateway, Apple, HP/Compaq, and several others, I get every part over nighted to me, if its a mission critical part like a server part, I get it same day shipped, and sometimes if I order it early enough I get it that day depending on lots of factors.

It is also a niche market.  When, at my previous job, we designed a render farm for the Maya animation lab, we didn't custom build anything.  We went out and filled it with Dual 2.5 Mac G5s.  From a maintenance stand point custom systems in an enterprise environment are nothing but a pain.  You want one main base OS image that will run on every system.

So, custom build systems is a niche market and I don't really see any real feasible business model out there to really make a lot of money off of just hardware sales.

I never once said, don't build custom systems, what I was saying is go get certified become a warranty provider, learn networking, troubleshooting, data recovery, data management, software package deployment, etc etc etc because those services is where you will make more money.

No need for apologies since I hardly ever really get offended and this conversation never went to a personal level in my mind.

Perhaps you are right and I agree there are those with money that will just pay for it, however I don't let anyone touch/configure/build/repair my computers.  There are those who just don't care either.  I don't do work on my car that I don't want to do, I just do the real basic stuff.  I'd rather pay someone that has a garage and can get it done in a few hours instead of me taking a whole weekend to do it.  However, from a stand point of making money you gain more profit from service than hardware sales in computing.


----------



## Vizy

PunterCam said:


> Slagging alienware nowadays eh? They sell the best pc's out there in my opinion, yes they're expensive, but if I had the money (and for a huge amount of people, buying one would be pennys) I'd have one in a shot. I only know one person who has one, and apparently the after sales service is unreal, they can't do enough. That alone would sell me it, rather than the usual ¨my hard drive failed, I only bought it 2 weeks ago¨. ¨I'm sorry sir, that's just how it goes¨ or ¨you want blank DVD's?¨.
> 
> People talk about custom pc building like it's an art, and people should be impressed, but any monkey can do it, there is absolutely nothing technical about it. There is no market for custom built computers, you can get a dell sooo cheap if you just need an internet station (I'd struggle to build one for much under their selling price, may £10 here and there), and if you want a bit of style you get an imac.
> 
> I don't bother building computers anymore, too much hassle for too little gain. Yeah, maybe I'd've saved myself a couple of hundered when i bough my mac, but **** it, I've got a mac. It always works, I can run osx and windows, I don't wonder why it sometimes locks up for a moment, or why the cd drive sometimes dissapears from 'my computer', because someone else has been through these problems and fixed them long before I got my hands on it. Plus I've got an uber quite piece of aluminium art sitting in my room, not some plastic vibrating shithouse



I knw macs just work, this whole website tells me that a mac forum

lol im playin just kdin, its just that i read an article of something similiar... i personally like macs, its true they do work and no BS software comes outta the box.


----------



## toratek

tlarkin said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Its a niche market, most people just want to buy a PC or a Mac, and don't want to have to hassle with anything custom built, unless they them self are a hobbyist of some sort.  Then, they will most likely want to do it them self.
> 
> 
> 
> When did I ever praise alienware?  I would never ever own any of their way over priced systems.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the problem, and you are failing to see this.  First off all computer companies started off small, but if I have a failed part on my $3000 custom built desktop I want to call support and have that god damn part over nighted to me the next day for warranty replacement.  Do those companies meet those standards?
> 
> 
> 
> I never said they shouldn't exist, I said there is not a lot of money in it.  My main point and overall point is, that if you want to make money you can't do it off of hardware sales.  The CD radio guys don't make their money off selling the product, they make their money off of servicing it.





tlarkin said:


> Being a self maintainer for Gateway, Apple, HP/Compaq, and several others, I get every part over nighted to me, if its a mission critical part like a server part, I get it same day shipped, and sometimes if I order it early enough I get it that day depending on lots of factors.
> 
> It is also a niche market.  When, at my previous job, we designed a render farm for the Maya animation lab, we didn't custom build anything.  We went out and filled it with Dual 2.5 Mac G5s.  From a maintenance stand point custom systems in an enterprise environment are nothing but a pain.  You want one main base OS image that will run on every system.
> 
> So, custom build systems is a niche market and I don't really see any real feasible business model out there to really make a lot of money off of just hardware sales.
> 
> I never once said, don't build custom systems, what I was saying is go get certified become a warranty provider, learn networking, troubleshooting, data recovery, data management, software package deployment, etc etc etc because those services is where you will make more money.
> 
> No need for apologies since I hardly ever really get offended and this conversation never went to a personal level in my mind.
> 
> Perhaps you are right and I agree there are those with money that will just pay for it, however I don't let anyone touch/configure/build/repair my computers.  There are those who just don't care either.  I don't do work on my car that I don't want to do, I just do the real basic stuff.  I'd rather pay someone that has a garage and can get it done in a few hours instead of me taking a whole weekend to do it.  However, from a stand point of making money you gain more profit from service than hardware sales in computing.



I totally agree with you No, there is no business model in custom gaming systems. They aren't really production systems. I mean, no person in their right mind would run an EVGA motherboard in a production system. They are just unreliable... I stay away from them. You can see from my sig. what I'm using. Building custom systems comes down to making a unique commercial product that stands out in terms of aesthetics,  design, performance, and "coolness factor". I could compare it the custom car market, that one doesn't have a business model either, yet the tuners out there are all alive and well. And you can trust me on this: when I put a system together, I give allot of attention to detail. Will this business go away? Sure. Computers are becoming smaller and smaller, and this type of "muscle machines" - analogous to muscle cars won't be built at some point anymore. Take a Mac for instance: It's perfect the way it is. It's compact, power efficient, and runs a decent OS. Unlike others who are trying this, I am not doing this to prove that I can twist wires better than others, but because I want to have a business set up so I can put myself trough school. I know that the money is in service. I am not naive when it comes to that. Sadly computer manufacturing is becoming an automated process. I was looking at Dell, and for $3000 you can get a decent Dell XPS system. Now would I get one? Absolutely not, and that's just because everything in there is Dell proprietary and lower quality than I can find at any e-tailer. And even do you where not impressed with the "Murderbox", the guy builds one machine at a time, and then delivers it personally home to you regardless where you live. He makes his money from service. So I guess that we booth agree on the same stuff...


----------



## OvenMaster

tlarkin said:


> Its a niche market, most people just want to buy a PC or a Mac, and don't want to have to hassle with anything custom built, unless they them self are a hobbyist of some sort.  Then, they will most likely want to do it them self.



That's it in a nutshell.
In my area, at least three people set up shop building custom PCs and offering service on them, as well as PCs bought elsewhere. 
None of them lasted even a year.
People who don't know anything about computers just buy a new one when the old one dies.
People who do know about computers will build and/or fix their own... and save money.
People who run large numbers of computers (libraries, hospitals, offices, etc.) will have their own in-house IT staff, or more often, a large contract company they can just call when something blows up.

Where does this leave someone who wants to build custom PCs for a living?
Thousands of dollars poorer after six months and looking for a new job.

My two cents.


----------



## newguy5

with the proper advertising any business can succeed, but even with a good idea businesses typically fail.  i just think you'll get into this and pretty quickly decide it's a really big waste of time.  not to mention how crappy our economy is right now...it's a terrible time to start a copy business because people aren't spending their money like they do in a thriving market.  but you can go for it if you want...it just seems to me you aren't considering all of the BIG factors that affect businesses more than the idea of just saying "maybe i can make $1000 a week!"  i'm just saying this isn't the first time someone has said, "hey, what if i copy what this other company does but do it differently," and gone nowhere.

someone said making $1000 a week wouldn't be enough money...that's $52,000 a year, about $19,000 more a year than the average male makes in a lifetime (per year).


----------



## camel lips

You have gotten some good advice in this thread.I have researched opening my own shop for a couple of years.

I am willing to be you are not going to make more than 15% -20% on building new systems.When you factor in your time,,it hardly seems worth it to build custom units but it is part of your overall plan so be sure to build good ones that will last for years.

Service and service after the sale are two key areas where you are going to make your money.Being able to articulate to your customer what parts he needs   
to buy when he ask you a question is going to be the make or break of your business.If you don't have a good handle on how to deal with people and know your product line,,your business is bound to fail.


----------



## Alien Ware

Just so everyone knows i'm still reading all comments


----------



## PunterCam

toratek said:


> Take a look here: www.murderbox.com
> 
> Now, you where saying ... what ?



Nice box, but inside it's still the same old rubbish - have you ever seen inside a mac pro? It's stunning, quite an eye opener if you think this is anything...


----------



## toratek

PunterCam said:


> Nice box, but inside it's still the same old rubbish - have you ever seen inside a mac pro? It's stunning, quite an eye opener if you think this is anything...



I sure have. I don't use parts like that to build PCs. I couldn't ask in good continence $6K for a PC with a EVGA 680i motherboard... If I had the capabilities of Apple, I would gladly eliminate most cables out of the PC, just like they did. Yeah, the Mac PRO is the bomb, not to mention how sleek and well designed Mac OS X is


----------



## PunterCam

toratek said:


> I sure have. I don't use parts like that to build PCs. I couldn't ask in good continence $6K for a PC with a EVGA 680i motherboard... If I had the capabilities of Apple, I would gladly eliminate most cables out of the PC, just like they did. Yeah, the Mac PRO is the bomb, not to mention how sleek and well designed Mac OS X is



Funny thing is I hate OSX! I find it far less stable and predictable than windows, but maybe I'm just not totally used to it still... I kinda feel apple need to gamble a bit and take on some windows ideas (without all the shit obviously), rather than simply tweaking an OS that is still kinda obtuse. If m/s get vista sussed soon I might just have to start using that, so please apple!


----------



## tlarkin

PunterCam said:


> Funny thing is I hate OSX! I find it far less stable and predictable than windows, but maybe I'm just not totally used to it still... I kinda feel apple need to gamble a bit and take on some windows ideas (without all the shit obviously), rather than simply tweaking an OS that is still kinda obtuse. If m/s get vista sussed soon I might just have to start using that, so please apple!



Really?  Less stable?  Wow, just curious why do you think this?  I know everyone may not like OS X, but finding it less stable is well, I think a particular experience.


----------



## toratek

tlarkin said:


> Really?  Less stable?  Wow, just curious why do you think this?  I know everyone may not like OS X, but finding it less stable is well, I think a particular experience.



Or, he could always get an Alienware running Vista, now that SP1 is out, things should be better...


----------



## lucky7

how much does vista home premium with SP1 cost?


----------



## toratek

*Same...*



lucky7 said:


> how much does vista home premium with SP1 cost?



It will cost the same as the older Vista. SP1 is Free if you own vista already.


----------

