# URGENT:  Camera Decision



## Origin Saint

Hi all.

My father is getting me a camera for my birthday.  There is a Canon Rebel T5 on Craigslist near us for $400 that includes the body, 2 different (Canon I'm assuming atm) lenses, an SD card and a bag.  There is also a $500 T5 at Sam's Club with the body, a 18-55mm and a 75-300mm lens, a 16GB SD card, and a bag.

Currently looking for more detail on the Craiglist ad.  However the guy want's a response by tonight.

What do you guys think?  Is it worth saving the $100?

Thanks guys!


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## johnb35

Same lenses?  How old is the camera?  You won't get a warranty with the used one like you would with the new one from Sams.


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## voyagerfan99

Find out what lenses the CL offer is. That will determine the value better.

The Canon 18-55mm is a shit lens. The 75-300 is decent but you'll still want to get a nice all-around lens like the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8

But as John said the Sam's T5 will come with a warranty at least.


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## Origin Saint

johnb35 said:


> Same lenses?





voyagerfan99 said:


> Find out what lenses the CL offer is. That will determine the value better.


Both Canon brand lenses.



johnb35 said:


> How old is the camera?


About a year according to the seller.

EDIT: The seller is willing to go to $350.
Feel free to continue advice/suggestions. It's less urgent than I had thought, but I certainly need to make my decision sometime tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for the advice so far!


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## Punk

What's your budget? What would be the purpose? A point and shoot or do you want to get into photography?


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## Origin Saint

Punk said:


> What's your budget?





Origin Saint said:


> My father is getting me a camera for my birthday.


^  Not a budget, this is a gift decision.  Not exactly entirely up for debate here...



Punk said:


> What would be the purpose? A point and shoot or do you want to get into photography?


Point & shoot/amateur photography.


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## Punk

Ok I don't see the point in getting a DSLR then, although the low end ones are easy to use, I would suggest a good bridge camera.


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## Origin Saint

Current options I'm considering:

Craigslist Canon Rebel T5 w/ 18-55 & 75-300 lenses, bag & SD card (1 year old)  - $350
Sam's Club Canon Rebel T5 w/ 18-55 & 75-300 lenses, bag & SD card - $500
Craigslist Nikon D7000 w/ Rokinon 35mm manual lens, Voigtlander 20mm manual lens ("2100 shutter actuations") - $500
Craigslist Nikon D5100 w/ 18-55 VR kit, memory card, bag - $340
Craigslist Nikon D5100 w/ 18-55 lens, extra battery, bag - $350
Craigslist Nikon D3300 w/ 18-55 & 55-200 lenses, bag (150 photos taken) - $500
Craigslist Nikon D3100 w/ 18-55, 55-200 & 35 manual lenses, bag, (assuming memory card) - $450
Craigslist Olympus OM-D E-M5 w/ 12-50mm lens, hardshell case - $520
I will need to make my decision by this afternoon.



Punk said:


> Ok I don't see the point in getting a DSLR then, although the low end ones are easy to use, I would suggest a good bridge camera.


Being able to get _into_ photography is something I would like the option to do, something a bit difficult with abridge camera afaik, not to mention I will likely be sharing this occasionally with my S/O and her mother who are artistic and fancy themselves as photographers.  I'm pretty well locked into a DSLR or a Mirrorless, though most mirrorless with decent features (viewfinder, etc...) are a bit to expensive, and I'm OK with the weight of a DSLR.


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## Punk

Origin Saint said:


> Current options I'm considering:
> 
> Craigslist Canon Rebel T5 w/ 18-55 & 75-300 lenses, bag & SD card (1 year old)  - $350
> Sam's Club Canon Rebel T5 w/ 18-55 & 75-300 lenses, bag & SD card - $500
> Craigslist Nikon D7000 w/ Rokinon 35mm manual lens, Voigtlander 20mm manual lens ("2100 shutter actuations") - $500
> Craigslist Nikon D5100 w/ 18-55 VR kit, memory card, bag - $340
> Craigslist Nikon D5100 w/ 18-55 lens, extra battery, bag - $350
> Craigslist Nikon D3300 w/ 18-55 & 55-200 lenses, bag (150 photos taken) - $500
> Craigslist Nikon D3100 w/ 18-55, 55-200 & 35 manual lenses, bag, (assuming memory card) - $450
> Craigslist Olympus OM-D E-M5 w/ 12-50mm lens, hardshell case - $520
> I will need to make my decision by this afternoon.
> 
> 
> Being able to get _into_ photography is something I would like the option to do, something a bit difficult with abridge camera afaik, not to mention I will likely be sharing this occasionally with my S/O and her mother who are artistic and fancy themselves as photographers.  I'm pretty well locked into a DSLR or a Mirrorless, though most mirrorless with decent features (viewfinder, etc...) are a bit to expensive, and I'm OK with the weight of a DSLR.



I see in your list you have the D5100, that's the one I have right now. Bought it new for about 700€ with the 18-55 VR and 70-300 Tamron Telezoom. It is a very decent camera, has the ability to shoot videos in 1080p although you can't shoot for more than 3 min and I haven't looked into the video options yet. Still, it is a nice little "gadget". As far as photo quality, you can check out my facebook page or 500px account (PM me if you want to have a look at any of those two). The auto mode is decent, and if you want to get into photography this is already a middle class amateur DSLR. I would go with the D5100 and the VR lens. I would then buy another battery (assuming the 18-55 on your second D5100 isn't VR) and maybe a flash and/or a remote control. Look also for a tripod if you don't have one. As far as SD card, look for a class 10 SDHC card (I have a 32GB) as files in RAW format go up to 16 MB.


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## Geoff

I'm not in the know with Nikon cameras, but the Rebel T5 is a solid entry level DSLR.  For a savings of $150, I think the Cragslist camera would be the best buy as it would allow you to spend more on new lenses, which is really where the DSLR photo quality comes from.  Just make sure it's in good condition, the sensor is clean with no black marks in photos, and find out what the shutter count is.  Both included lenses are very basic and are good for understanding the basics of a DSLR, but you should replace it pronto if you want quality photos.


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## Origin Saint

Punk said:


> I see in your list you have the D5100, that's the one I have right now. Bought it new for about 700€ with the 18-55 VR and 70-300 Tamron Telezoom. It is a very decent camera, has the ability to shoot videos in 1080p although you can't shoot for more than 3 min and I haven't looked into the video options yet. Still, it is a nice little "gadget". As far as photo quality, you can check out my facebook page or 500px account (PM me if you want to have a look at any of those two). The auto mode is decent, and if you want to get into photography this is already a middle class amateur DSLR. I would go with the D5100 and the VR lens. I would then buy another battery (assuming the 18-55 on your second D5100 isn't VR) and maybe a flash and/or a remote control. Look also for a tripod if you don't have one. As far as SD card, look for a class 10 SDHC card (I have a 32GB) as files in RAW format go up to 16 MB.


How is the image stabilization on the D5100?  I was reading that the T5 has really great stabilization.  I'm not versed in which cameras are much better than others, regardless of camera type.

Here's the second one with the extra battery, I can't tell if that's the VR lens or not:
https://louisville.craigslist.org/ele/5668969671.html


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## Geoff

Origin Saint said:


> How is the image stabilization on the D5100?  I was reading that the T5 has really great stabilization.  I'm not versed in which cameras are much better than others, regardless of camera type.
> 
> Here's the second one with the extra battery, I can't tell if that's the VR lens or not:
> https://louisville.craigslist.org/ele/5668969671.html


The T5 doesn't have image stabilization, and likely the D5100 doesn't either.  The lenses are what have image stabilization, and are marked with an "IS" in the name.


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## Origin Saint

Geoff said:


> The T5 doesn't have image stabilization, and likely the D5100 doesn't either. The lenses are what have image stabilization, and are marked with an "IS" in the name.


Oops, my noob is showing 



Origin Saint said:


> Here's the second one with the extra battery, I can't tell if that's the VR lens or not:
> https://louisville.craigslist.org/ele/5668969671.html



Took another look, the lens is the VR lens (saw the logo on the left of the lens).

Now I just need to decide if I want the T5 or the D5100...

T5 vs. D5100
$350 vs. $350
18-55mm Canon EF-S IS II vs. 18-55mm AF-S Nikon Nikkor VR
75-300mm Canon EF (IS?) vs. no second lens
unknown SD Card size/type vs. no confirmation on if there is a memory card or not
Canon strap bag vs. Nikon strap bag
1 year old vs. not sure
nothing vs. shutter release
nothing vs. extra battery
Much closer to home vs. possibly too far away

Any further thoughts?​


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## Punk

Geoff said:


> The T5 doesn't have image stabilization, and likely the D5100 doesn't either.  The lenses are what have image stabilization, and are marked with an "IS" in the name.


IS is for Canon, VR is for Nikon.

That being said, VR is enough for me.

I'll be honest, the Rebel is the breakthrough for DSLR into the commerial World. It is meant to sell to amateurs and I would stay away from it. I'm very pleased with my Nikon and am still far from using at its 100% possibilities like I almost did with the D40.


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## Origin Saint

The D5100 I listed above happens to be 2.5 hours from my fathers home, and 2 hours from his workplace.  So I'm hesistant to believe that he would be willing, however, I'm asking now.

This one is much closer, but includes less accessories and has only one lens.
https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/pho/5673350476.html

So far, I'm torn between the Canon and the Nikon,  Your guys' tally is:
1 (Geoff) Canon | 1 (Punk) Nikon

Needmoreinput.jpeg

Off to do some research.  Keep discussing with me, if you can


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## Geoff

Punk said:


> That being said, VR is enough for me.
> 
> I'll be honest, the Rebel is the breakthrough for DSLR into the commerial World. *It is meant to sell to amateurs *and I would stay away from it. I'm very pleased with my Nikon and am still far from using at its 100% possibilities like I almost did with the D40.


What do you mean "VR is enough for me"?  As you said, IS and VR are the same, just different names.  You can't get "more" than IS/VR..

Since Origin Saint is an amateur getting into DSLR, why would that be a reason to stay away from it?

@Origin Saint The best advice I can give is to go to a store and handle both these cameras, or their newer counterpart, in person and see what you like the feel of most and what menu system is most intuitive to you.  It may not seem like it now, but once you start investing in new lenses and accessories, it's expensive and difficult to switch.  Pretty much all Canon and Nikon bodies have very similar style ergonomics and menu systems throughout their lines, so if you have a strong preference of one over the other, that's the best one for you.


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## spirit

Origin Saint said:


> Current options I'm considering:
> 
> Craigslist Canon Rebel T5 w/ 18-55 & 75-300 lenses, bag & SD card (1 year old)  - $350
> Sam's Club Canon Rebel T5 w/ 18-55 & 75-300 lenses, bag & SD card - $500
> Craigslist Nikon D7000 w/ Rokinon 35mm manual lens, Voigtlander 20mm manual lens ("2100 shutter actuations") - $500
> Craigslist Nikon D5100 w/ 18-55 VR kit, memory card, bag - $340
> Craigslist Nikon D5100 w/ 18-55 lens, extra battery, bag - $350
> Craigslist Nikon D3300 w/ 18-55 & 55-200 lenses, bag (150 photos taken) - $500
> Craigslist Nikon D3100 w/ 18-55, 55-200 & 35 manual lenses, bag, (assuming memory card) - $450
> Craigslist Olympus OM-D E-M5 w/ 12-50mm lens, hardshell case - $520
> I will need to make my decision by this afternoon.
> 
> 
> Being able to get _into_ photography is something I would like the option to do, something a bit difficult with abridge camera afaik, not to mention I will likely be sharing this occasionally with my S/O and her mother who are artistic and fancy themselves as photographers.  I'm pretty well locked into a DSLR or a Mirrorless, though most mirrorless with decent features (viewfinder, etc...) are a bit to expensive, and I'm OK with the weight of a DSLR.


I wasn't impressed with the Canons when I first went D-SLR shopping a few years ago and that's the kind of time period you're buying from. Doesn't help that they name them differently in the USA, in the UK the T5 is the 1200D is a rock-bottom entry-level model. I've never seen a 1200D but if it's anything like the 1100D, it's predecessor, I'd stay away and choose something higher-end but slightly older instead if you're on a budget. If you want a Canon then maybe look at the 650D or the 700D.

If it were me I'd choose the D5100 overall, but look at the D3300 or the D7000 if I had the money. The D3300 has more megapixels but the D7000 is a more 'prosumer' body with nice features such as weather-sealing, a top-mounted LCD, higher burst rate and so on. The D7000 is bigger and heavier which you may prefer if you like a camera that fits the hands and you can get a Nikon grip for it to extend the battery life (you can get grips for the D3300 too, I've got one on my D3200, but they're all third-party, a bit tacky and you have to use a flying cable to use the shutter button on the grip). The D3300 is smaller and lighter so more ideal for travelling. I have the D3200 and it's great so I don't have a problem recommending the D3xxx line, especially given that the D3200 and D3300 are so similar.

I wouldn't choose the D3100 though given that you can get a D5100 for less which is a higher-end camera. The D5xxx series are kind of mid-way between the D3xxx and D7xxx. The D5100 has a tilting screen which is nice for video and some other things. It's got the same 16 MP sensor as the D7000 if memory serves me correctly (whereas the D3200 and D3300 are 24 MP).

Basically:

- Best bang for buck has to be the D5100 and that's probably the best all-rounder offering some nice features in a small and light body.
- If you want to spend more on megapixels then get the D3300, but really 16 MP is going to be fine.
- If you want to spend more on a more 'prosumer' body then get the D7000, but it's possibly overkill for what you need and it is 6 years old now with a lot of the newer lower-end cameras like the D3300 surpassing it in some aspects now (for example video recording).


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## Punk

The quality of the lens doesn't justify adding MPs, I would get the D5100 with those lenses (unless you plan on buying high end lenses but that's twice the price you're willing to spend on your camera).


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## Origin Saint

I think I've mostly settled on the D5100, with the hopes that one of the two sellers will contact me back in time.  I'll ask how much they've been used and abused and go from there.  Feel free to continue discussion, as I haven't purchased anything yet!


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## Origin Saint

Which is the better deal for the D5100?

+ SD Card, Bag, Box, DVD, Booklet, Closer to home, -$10, has replied to me, only been used to photograph baseball games of owners son
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/pho/5673350476.html

OR

+ Bag, Shutter Release, Extra Battery
https://louisville.craigslist.org/ele/5668969671.html


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## spirit

Spend the extra $10 for the one with the extra battery and the remote shutter release, which is handy for night photography. To buy the extra battery and remote shutter release will cost more than $10.


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## Geoff

I would still highly recommend trying out both in person and seeing what is more comfortable and intuitive.  You don't want to use a camera that you find uncomfortable or difficult to operate.


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## Origin Saint

Geoff said:


> I would still highly recommend trying out both in person and seeing what is more comfortable and intuitive. You don't want to use a camera that you find uncomfortable or difficult to operate.


Tru dat.  I'm stopping at a Best Buy for a few after work and gunna toy with them.


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## voyagerfan99

spirit said:


> I wasn't impressed with the Canons when I first went D-SLR shopping a few years ago


That's because the Rebel line is shit. When you get into the EOS line they're much better.


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## spirit

voyagerfan99 said:


> That's because the Rebel line is shit. When you get into the EOS line they're much better.


Over here they're all branded EOS, there is no 'Rebel' or 'Tx' branding. You need to get into the 700D/60D/70D/80D before they're any good really.


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## C4C

Origin Saint said:


> Current options I'm considering:
> 
> Craigslist Canon Rebel T5 w/ 18-55 & 75-300 lenses, bag & SD card (1 year old)  - $350
> Sam's Club Canon Rebel T5 w/ 18-55 & 75-300 lenses, bag & SD card - $500
> Craigslist Nikon D7000 w/ Rokinon 35mm manual lens, Voigtlander 20mm manual lens ("2100 shutter actuations") - $500
> Craigslist Nikon D5100 w/ 18-55 VR kit, memory card, bag - $340
> Craigslist Nikon D5100 w/ 18-55 lens, extra battery, bag - $350
> Craigslist Nikon D3300 w/ 18-55 & 55-200 lenses, bag (150 photos taken) - $500
> Craigslist Nikon D3100 w/ 18-55, 55-200 & 35 manual lenses, bag, (assuming memory card) - $450
> Craigslist Olympus OM-D E-M5 w/ 12-50mm lens, hardshell case - $520
> I will need to make my decision by this afternoon.
> 
> 
> Being able to get _into_ photography is something I would like the option to do, something a bit difficult with abridge camera afaik, not to mention I will likely be sharing this occasionally with my S/O and her mother who are artistic and fancy themselves as photographers.  I'm pretty well locked into a DSLR or a Mirrorless, though most mirrorless with decent features (viewfinder, etc...) are a bit to expensive, and I'm OK with the weight of a DSLR.



Out of this list I'd recommend the D3300 (smaller and lighter body than some of the older Nikon's), and the Sam's Club Rebel T5i (for the warranty).

I personally have enjoyed my D3300 and just wish I had another small lens. $500 seems a bit steep to pay for it used, unless it really does have such little actuations.

The second link for the D5100 is a bit better with the shutter release value (dependent on brand), but the first link is probably what I'd go with due to the fact that all original paperwork is included.


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