# Liquid Nitrogen



## The Astroman (Feb 14, 2005)

Does Liquid Nitrogen conduct electricity? If not, could one plunge his mobo in a bassin full of liquid nitro and overclock his cpu 1-2 ghz up? Of course, all other components such as hdd would be out of the bassin.


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## magicman (Feb 14, 2005)

It would be cool, but I think it wouldn't work. You'd get masses of condensation which would affect things, plus if it's too cold the cpu would seize up completely. Liquid NO2 is about -190c, which is a bit too cold for cpu's to function.

I dont think NO2 conducts itself, in answer to your first question. 78% of the atmosphere is nitrogen, after all.


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## Praetor (Feb 14, 2005)

> Liquid NO2 is about -190c, which is a bit too cold for cpu's to function.


Huh?


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## Yeti (Feb 14, 2005)

LN2 boils at 77K (-196C) and has been used (many times) to overclock.  Its not very practicle and is mainly just to see how far you can OC.  Usually only the CPU is in contact with the LN2 since the rest of the board is just adds to the heat load.  I don't think pure nitrogen is conductive since it is a non-polar molecule.


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## Praetor (Feb 15, 2005)

Now what happened if we used liquid air which is significantly cooler?


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## Yeti (Feb 15, 2005)

Or liquid helium (boiling point = 3K)... I could probably get some from the lab... hmm thats superconductor temps


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## magicman (Feb 15, 2005)

> Liquid NO2 is about -190c, which is a bit too cold for cpu's to function.



Ok that was one of the most stupid comments I have made on this forum.

I found a video where they broke the 5Ghz barrier and set a new world record (allegedly).

Take a look-  http://www12.tomshardware.com/images/thg_video_11_5ghz.zip
It's 23MB, but it's worth it.


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## Praetor (Feb 15, 2005)

> don't all liquid's conduct electricity? For example, water


no. Water is an insulator


> i found a video where they broke the 5ghz barrier and set a new world record (allegedly).


world record nothing


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## fultz (Feb 17, 2005)

Well of course Liquid Nitrogen would work to overclock, tomshardware used it to break 5GHz as mentioned above, but liquid nitrogen is really just for showing off, it could be useful to break higher overclocks but the overclock at tomsharware is nothing, people have broke 5 GHz on air with the stock intel heatsink...

I also think the record is 7.2GHz set buy this guy at the XtremeSystems Forums, It was only stable in the BIOS but Im sure he could clock it down a bit and get it stable in windows above 5GHz. Im sure using liquid nitrogen wouldn't be very healthy for your computer though.


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## Kboy (Feb 17, 2005)

Praetor said:
			
		

> Now what happened if we used liquid air which is significantly cooler?


I don't mean to correct the master, but air is composed of many different elements, as we learn in Chemistry, not one thing, so I don't think you caould liquefy air.  You could liquefy Oxygen, at least according to Metal Gear Solid 2, lol.  Just messing Praetor!


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## Yeti (Feb 17, 2005)

> I don't mean to correct the master, but air is composed of many different elements, as we learn in Chemistry, not one thing, so I don't think you caould liquefy air. You could liquefy Oxygen, at least according to Metal Gear Solid 2, lol. Just messing Praetor!


I had to think about that for a second too.  You could liquify air, the components would just liquify at different points - oxygen at 90K, nitrogen at 77K - but at low enough temperature all the components would be liquid and could be a mixture, thus liquid air.


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## Kboy (Feb 17, 2005)

but some would most likely solidify, making a really weird combo of liquids and solids in the mix, cause there's a lotta crap in air.


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## Yeti (Feb 17, 2005)

> but some would most likely solidify, making a really weird combo of liquids and solids in the mix, cause there's a lotta crap in air.


True, but the majority of air is nitrogen and oxygen.  You probably wouldn't notice the less than 1% that would solidify before they liquify, but you are right


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## Praetor (Feb 17, 2005)

> I don't mean to correct the master, but air is composed of many different elements, as we learn in Chemistry, not one thing, so I don't think you caould liquefy air. You could liquefy Oxygen, at least according to Metal Gear Solid 2, lol. Just messing Praetor!


You can liquify air. 
http://www.wonderquest.com/liquid-air.htm


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## Yeti (Feb 17, 2005)

> You can liquify air.
> http://www.wonderquest.com/liquid-air.htm


Well, that article is basically assuming only nitrogen and oxygen, things like CO2 would still solidify at higher temps.  The temperature it quotes is exactly the vaporization temp of N2.  As for the rest of it, its not that hard to get things to a lower temp.  I'm working on a project now that will (hopefully) get down to 10K (-263C).


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## Praetor (Feb 17, 2005)

> Well, that article is basically assuming only nitrogen and oxygen, things like CO2 would still solidify at higher temps. The temperature it quotes is exactly the vaporization temp of N2.


It was the best i could do within 4 clicks  .... i got some book at home with the temp of liquid air listed except thats at home and im here.... lol  (ill grant its probably an extrapolated value though)



> I'm working on a project now that will (hopefully) get down to 10K (-263C).


Cool! Using lasers to reduce/eliminate KE of the particles?


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## Yeti (Feb 17, 2005)

> Cool! Using lasers to reduce/eliminate KE of the particles?


No, though that would be quite interesting.  Its a two stage hybrid cryocooler.  The purpose is to cool imaging instruments in outer space, improving the signal to noise ratio.


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## Praetor (Feb 17, 2005)

> No, though that would be quite interesting. Its a two stage hybrid cryocooler.


Yeah read about that somewhere where some Uni somewhere out southwestern US used that approach to bring temps within degrees of absolute (dunno the actual numbers i dont recall it being more than 10-15K) by essentially trying to stop the motions at an atomic level .. all for the low price of roughly $10000 worth of equipment too


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## cidViscous (Feb 17, 2005)

*come on, superconductors*

we don't need cooling systems like that, yet.  the benefits gained by overclocking can be duplicated by cycle sharing (i.e. grid computing) far more easily, inexpensively, and usually with more stability.  

overclocking is great for squeezing extra performance out of older rigs, but if you put too much time and money into the project, the trade-offs quickly become worth more than the end result.  unless it's the challenge.  

i can certainly understand the desire to see how far you can push technology, and i am grateful to those people who undertake these projects, for we gain much knowledge about the limits and capabilities of our products that way, but using liquid cooling rigs just to overclock an old amd seems like overkill.  

now, once they get superconductors into production, it will be essential to have those kind of systems, but the performance boosts will be so massive it will be worth the cost, size, and trouble.  

at least, imho....

--cid


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## Yeti (Feb 17, 2005)

> we don't need cooling systems like that, yet. the benefits gained by overclocking can be duplicated by cycle sharing (i.e. grid computing) far more easily, inexpensively, and usually with more stability.
> 
> overclocking is great for squeezing extra performance out of older rigs, but if you put too much time and money into the project, the trade-offs quickly become worth more than the end result. unless it's the challenge.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone was suggesting that it would be a good idea to really use those cooling systems.  Massive overclocking is, most always, just for show.  The reality is that a system that would cool to such low temperatures would never be efficient enough to use.  A simple Carnot efficiency calculation would show that the maximum ideal thermal efficiency you could ever reach through a heat pump to only LN2 temps is about 25%, not very good.  They do have their uses though, case and point my project.


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## cidViscous (Feb 17, 2005)

*nodz*

sorry if that sounded a little cynical or whatever.  my point was that it's _good_ that there are ppl out there doing things like that.  without tinkerers we would never know where we truly stood, instead having to take coporations word that their products work how they say, and only how they say.  

i'm rooting for the overclockers...

--cid


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## Praetor (Feb 18, 2005)

> we don't need cooling systems like that, yet. the benefits gained by overclocking can be duplicated by cycle sharing (i.e. grid computing) far more easily, inexpensively, and usually with more stability.
> 
> overclocking is great for squeezing extra performance out of older rigs, but if you put too much time and money into the project, the trade-offs quickly become worth more than the end result. unless it's the challenge.


Agreed often OCing is by far, not a neccesity ... just a hobby/cult-obsession


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## <<seS>>Saint (Feb 18, 2005)

Praetor said:
			
		

> ... just a hobby/cult-obsession




Yes Obsession I think that is my problem or just curiosity.


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