# Restarting?



## Kornowski

Hey,

My computer just randomly restarts every now and again and I don't know why...  





Here's a screenshot of my temp folder that the files are apparently in...





Any ideas on whats wrong?

Thanks.


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## Rambo

How long has it been happening? Try doing Virus scans, Adware and Spyware removal, etc..



*Edit:* It could also be a defective power supply.


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## Kornowski

I've ran a virus scan, defragmented, everything and it still happens... I don't know if could be, the one I have is a 400watt...

Any other ideas what it is? I tried deleting the things in the temp file and it says I can't because they are in use...


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## Jet

What brand of 400 watt? Did it come along with your case? Most PSUs that come with cases have a tendency to be low quality, and quit sooner than later.


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## Kornowski

Yeah, it came with my case... It says that there's specific files to blame though, would a new PSU fix it, I don't want to waste my money... it worked fine in my old case with the old PSU and that was about 2 years old...


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## Jet

Look at the sticker on the side and tell us how many amps it has on the 12V rail.


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## Kornowski

12V - o.8A


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## Rambo

Generally, although not always, PSU's which come with cases are of low quality. You're going to need to monitor the power supplies' voltages and see if you notice anything strange (perhaps sudden spikes or something).


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## Kornowski

How do I do that and do you think thats to blame, what the about the files it named though?


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## Kornowski

I read up a little, Could it be my GPU drivers?


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## Jet

Kornowski said:


> 12V - o.8A



That's the -12V. Look for the +12V.


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## iggy101

yeah it could be the gpu drivers... that happened to me but it only restarted when i was gaming. after i updated the drivers it started working. go ahead and update the drivers on everything to eliminate that possibility!


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## Kornowski

Jet said:


> That's the -12V. Look for the +12V.



I'll have to take the side of the case off, I'll do it tomorrow...



iggy101 said:


> yeah it could be the gpu drivers... that happened to me but it only restarted when i was gaming. after i updated the drivers it started working. go ahead and update the drivers on everything to eliminate that possibility!




Ok sure, I'll post back once I've done that, do you think its the problem?


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## Kornowski

the +20v is 20A...

I'm about to update the drivers now...


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## Kornowski

Ok so I've updated the drivers... I haven't had a chance to test it yet though... I hope it works?

Any views on what else it may be>


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## Kornowski

Ok, So I played the FEAR expansion pack for about an hour and it didn't restart...

What are peoples views on the PSU?


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## PC eye

If the supply in that case is stable you should start looking over system temps. Board and cpu temps will see system restarts at times just like any voltage dropoffs. The one time I ordered a case "with a supply" the supply lasted all of two weeks and simply quit! I don't care what brand is on the supply. I am in full agreement that the "cheapies" are what they simply throw into them. But you still want to look over the temps to prevent possible damages being seen from something overheating.


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## Kornowski

My temps are fine, Idle they are 35C on the CPU and when playing a game they go to about 43C...

I can't tell the temp of my video card, I don't think it has a sensor, I'm ordering a 80mm (no room for 120mm) exhaust fan tomorrow, It may help...


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## PC eye

The fan will offer a little help with air flow for the case in general but not really anything for the cpu. Those are slightly better then average actually for a stock setup. The newer AMD Socket AM2 dual core models see a max temp of about 60-65C while an older Socket A maxed at 85-90C depending on model. Those are high temps even for that line of cpus.


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## Kornowski

Yeah, The temps are pretty good I think... It hasn't restarted since I got the drivers... But then I haven't played much... Whats your view on the files that are to _'blame'_?


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## PC eye

The only time I seem to have ever saw repeated and unexpected system restarts was on the last build where something simply overheated once too often. Without a trace of a virus or other malware a damaged or missing even cross linked set of drivers causing a clash would see various problems. XP has it's own "crash control" method of restarting the system if a crashing program is about to totally lockup the system. But I find myself skeptical on just how effectuve that is to start with?!


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## Kornowski

Nothings overheating... The temps are all fine.


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## Kornowski

Ok, so it just did it again while I was surfing the net!  

It's really peaving me know...

It says these files:

C:\DOCUME~1\Daniel\LOCALS~1\Temp\WERd6e9.dir00\Mini010907-01.dmp
C:\DOCUME~1\Daniel\LOCALS~1\Temp\WERd6e9.dir00\sysdata.xml

C:\DOCUME~1\Daniel\LOCALS~1\Temp\WER1bf5.dir00\Mini011107-01.dmp
C:\DOCUME~1\Daniel\LOCALS~1\Temp\WER1bf5.dir00\sysdata.xml

and I know get directed to this page! http://wer.microsoft.com/responses/....2.0?SGD=ca4b299c-2b7e-46e1-850f-51981c0af1d7

GRRRRR!

Any ideas whats wrong? Is my hard drive about to die?


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## Kornowski

Really buggin' me


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## Alphatronix

More system dump files lol..; You have a problem. If I were you, just reformat the comp.


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## Kornowski

I just reformatted it when I built it, about 2 months ago... I don't get whats the matter... What about the Microsoft Report?


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## PC eye

Those are memory dumps whenever you see those error messages. While most of the autosend message to MS doesn't tell you much keep an eye out for any specific error. Sometimes it will bring you to a page that specifies just what the error is about. One thing I found when running across those was a need to update drivers for the SB Audigy 2 sound card installed at the time. Other times it was the video drivers. That was seen on the old build not the present one on many occasions.


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## Kornowski

I've got the up to date ATI drivers for my card, I'll get the latest sound drivers too if I can find them... I did note though that somebody said that it could be to  do with Java and once they'd removed it the problem went... I have noticed it started since I installed Java 2 (I think that was what it was called)... Do you think this could be the problem also? Thanks a lot guys!


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## Rambo

Kornowski said:


> I have noticed it started since I installed Java 2 (I think that was what it was called)... Do you think this could be the problem also? Thanks a lot guys!




There's no harm in trying.


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## PC eye

Have you seen any improvement since removing it? If not you will have to start disabling if not removing other things until you know the problem. Java was simply a means to replace the MS version of a virtual machine. The updated versions of different softwares and drivers can see problems at times with the existing environment. Driver conflicts, memory errors now being seen, and even a virus/malware still undetected are a few items to still look at.


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## Kornowski

Well, It hasn't done it since but I haven't been on it that long, Let's hope it works!


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## PC eye

If it does happen within a day's time take notes on just what you were doing and what was running(foreground-background) at that moment. Make a list of those things to see if you can spot at least one thing different then at other times like now when no problems come up. Being familiar with your software as well as hardware environment can be a big help at times isolating headaches like software driver conflicts.


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## Kornowski

Yeah, thats a great idea, thanks a lot... I'll note them down now


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## Kornowski

Now I'm annoyed! It did it again!

Now I get this web-site!

http://wer.microsoft.com/responses/....2.0?SGD=835abd97-20ad-41d4-bde9-3cc1d23d5321

Grrr!


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## Kornowski

Anybody? It's really, *REALLY* annoying!


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## Kornowski

I found this patch that Windows released:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...FamilyID=3D41A046-0E2C-429F-8F40-F30014ADC3BB

I donwloaded it, but it says that I cannot install it if I have Service packs installed, Should I un-install them and the run the patch and then download them again... Or do you not recoment it?

Also, I got the latest driver for my sound card, I don't know if it will help...

Thanks for any help


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## PC eye

Kornowski said:


> I found this patch that Windows released:
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...FamilyID=3D41A046-0E2C-429F-8F40-F30014ADC3BB
> 
> I donwloaded it, but it says that I cannot install it if I have Service packs installed, Should I un-install them and the run the patch and then download them again... Or do you not recoment it?
> 
> Also, I got the latest driver for my sound card, I don't know if it will help...
> 
> Thanks for any help


 
 That patch is SP1! You don't want that if you already SP2 on for a certainty. SP2 is far better to have on and leave on. Your problem clearly pointed more at a driver related issue then the need to update releases of XP prior to SP1. SP2 and the newer security fixes are the move if that wasn't already on. 

The link to that was probably due to problems seen more often with the initial release of XP. In fact the latest games and softwares mandate that SP2 be installed. The only thing you should be removing would be video and sound drivers/softwares for updates on those. If you need SP2 you can download and save the full 266mb redistributed service pack to a folder from http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS-Enhancements/Windows-XP-SP2-RTM.shtml


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## Kornowski

I have both SP1 and SP2... I was just wondering if I should un-install them... Install the patch and then install both SP's again?


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## Kornowski

Any suggestions?


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## Kornowski

WTF! Again!  

I've got the latest drivers! Work you stupid machine!

Open to *ANY* suggestions as to what it may be! 

Sick of it restarting, Don't have a bloody clue whats wrong!?

Do you think these would work?

http://www.barrett.net/xpmemorydump.html

http://www.smartcomputing.com/edito...es/2004/s1509/38s09/38s09.asp&articleid=21091

Thanks!


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## Kornowski

I also came across this, do you think I should delete all of the files it found?


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## Kornowski

Pffffft, I'm going to get rid of the service packs and try that patch thing...


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## PC eye

The first link you posted gives clear instructions that are worth a try. The "patch" you keep referring to is SP1 released in 2002 a year after XP first came out. SP2 came out in 2004 and SP3 is apparently still in the works. The so called "nasty file remover" simply lists ATI drivers for you video card there! This is why I would recommend the total removal of the video drivers and the Catalyst Control Center where you then download a fresh update.

 Meanwhile SP3 will obviously include IE 7 and some newer updated security fixes as usual. You don't want to remove SP2 to back to SP1 unless you have come across instruction on that due to a specific problem caused by SP2 bein on the system. The "patch" refers to SP1 for those with no service pack installed with the initial release of XP. Totally removing video and sound drivers along with running a good registry cleaner would be one advice here. The other would involve a repair install of XP if nothing else works.

 First you want to test the memory installed to see if you are stuck with faulty ram. http://www.memtest86.com/ Since your temps have been good you have to start looking at other possible defects in hardwares until that can be ruled out totally. A cpu failing or a weak CR2023 Lithium battery or bios programming is getting a little flaky.


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## Kornowski

So I thought the patch would fix it, but nooooooooooo!  

It did it AGAIN FFS! Do you think my CPU could be dieing, It is a bit old...


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## PC eye

I haven't ruled out a possible failure there from the start. It would fit the pattern even without the high temps seen on it. Memtest can also be tried out while still being a little cautious about the glitches that were seen here on perfectly good memory. Microsoft has their own diagnostic tool found at http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

 The patch turned out to SP1 while you were ahead of the game with SP2 already installed. Besides a possible impending cpu fail or memory faults having developed the board itself could be having a problem. A fault bios eprom or some bad cap on the board would be another pair of items to look at if power dropoffs were causing this at times.


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## Kornowski

I'm getting the Memory test now... I may be upgrading anyway... Do you think a new MOBO and CPU would fix the problem? How do I test to see if it's the power?


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## PC eye

The only real way to see if your supply is at fault is to measure the output amperage level with a load place on the supply or running the system with one known to be good. With a model as close to the current one as possible further problems would rule that out. If no problems are seen you may have found the answer that way.

 If you plan a new build then you are basically starting all over fresh. Any problems seen then would be with incompatibility with the selection or defects found with new hardwares. But everything there gives you other options. Of course that's what upgrading entails. If the old Socket A board had held up I would be looking at an AM2 board or simply waiting a little longer for the AM3 due out sometime. But? Socket A became D.O.A.!


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## Rambo

I know it's a long shot, but have you tried fidgeting the power cables, and plugging them/it into a different socket?


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## PC eye

Reinspecting power connections and one idea of reseating memory and expansion cards can be thrown in. Something is obvious. but?


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## Kornowski

I'll try and waggle a few of the cables around... Do you think a new CPU and MOBO would help as it is nearly time for an upgrade anyway...


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## lovely?

i'm sorry for the bad news, but this sounds like a virus that i have recently been reading about. the symptoms are just as you said, and the virus is not yet blockable by any virus protection yet made. my best advice? delete EVERYTHING if the problem does not go away with any normal tries to fix it. then reinstall windows (if you have the cd of course, ) and start over


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## Kornowski

Do you have a link to the web-page describing the virus, please?

Oh bummer!


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## Kornowski

Again! Ggggggggrrrrrrrrr!


Do you think a new CPU and MOBO would fix the problem?


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## PC eye

Kornowski said:


> I'll try and waggle a few of the cables around... Do you think a new CPU and MOBO would help as it is nearly time for an upgrade anyway...


 
 If you went with an upgrade you would need to wipe the drive for a clean install and fresh hardware detection by Windows. That would eliminate any current clashes are far as software is concerned. That would also put you into a new board, cpu, and even faster memory.



lovely? said:


> i'm sorry for the bad news, but this sounds like a virus that i have recently been reading about. the symptoms are just as you said, and the virus is not yet blockable by any virus protection yet made. my best advice? delete EVERYTHING if the problem does not go away with any normal tries to fix it. then reinstall windows (if you have the cd of course, ) and start over


 
 Not every problem is virus related while some can stiffle the works! But it sounds like scans for viruses, malwares, spywares, adwares, etc. have already been run and rule that out for the most part.


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## Kornowski

Yeah, I would have to re-format again... I don't mind, It's a fresh start... Is there a way I can check the power supply before I buy other new stuff?

I'll run memtest tonight too,

Thanks


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## PC eye

You would have to have someone experienced there test the supply by placing a load on it and measuring the output. A pc repair shop or an electronics tech would know to perform that easy enough. Antec and other brands offer some low cost supply testers. But I remain skeptical even while having one hanging around here since it's a set of three leds to show if there is power seen on the main connector.


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## Kornowski

Right, so there's no way to check it myself, other than take it to a Electrical shop like Maplins?


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## Kornowski

Ok, So what I thought had solved the problem hadn't


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## PC eye

Testing a supply with a multimeter or watt meter is basic for an experienced tech who knows how to place a load on it correctly. Many techs won't even charge a fee since it only takes a few minutes to run some quick tests to see if the supply is good or needs replacement.

 Even if you buy a new supply now and find a board fault you will have something better for the eventual upgrade to a new build. But your current situation is a little awkward for that at this time. Have it tested since finding that bad will be less costly then finding the board, cpu, or memory bad and then have to replace those.


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## Kornowski

I ran Memtest for little over an hour, untill it got to 100% and it found no errors...


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## Kornowski

Any ideas what it could be?


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## salman

Hi there, i would recommend at least trying to reinstall xp again, its not gonna make your problem any worse. I know you have only reinstalled it a litlle while ago but still give it a shot. By doing this you could also try and identify which softeware(if it is a software problem) is causing these problems by installing one software package at a time and then testing your computer. i hope this helps.


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## Kornowski

Yeah, that is a good idea, Thanks ... I don't know weather to leave it or not as I may be gettning a new MOBO and CPU after February... I just want to make sure that if i got that then the problem wouldn't continue with the new hardware...


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## salman

np. If i were you i would just try and hold out until you do get your upgrade and see how it goes from there, however if you rely on this computer for your homework, GCSEs etc i think it would be worth spending a Saturday or Sunday reinstalling XP and experimenting with which software, or driver could be causing this problem.


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## Kornowski

I don't know if new hardware would fix it though, I really hope it would!
I could do... It does it a lot when playing a game though....


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## PC eye

A few things can mess you up when gaming. First the video card will draw more power at that time. You are placing a good load but nowhere as near as much as running WMP at times on the cpu. While you are not seeing a high cpu temp the thought occurs of a possible VPU not CPU overheating being seen. Remember you still haven't isolated whether it's hardware or software. But the recent reinstall of XP suggests a good look at a hardware fault.


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## Kornowski

I haven't put XP back on, I don't know if I will, My card doesn't have any temperature sensors on it? Do you think purchasing a cooler for it may solve the problem, I didn't have this problem on my old case and this didn't have any problems... Wait, theres an intake fan on the side of my case, right next to the GPU, I don't think it can overheat...


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## PohTayToez

It's definitely not the PSU, and I don't see how it could be the HDD.  If you have your windows disk, try repairing windows.


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## Kornowski

What makes you say it isn't the PSU? I may try putting it on, thanks.


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## PC eye

When gaming or even more demanding running full screen multimedia playbak with a screen saver going like seen in WMP the draw is on more then the video card alone. Once you start taxing the sound as well as cpu and memory to add to the demands on a video card the demand for power comes into play.

 There are some tools for getting temps on video cards. But those are more or less getting data from board sensors unless you install one directly onto the card itself. The possibility of the card overheating while gaming wouldn't be a great surprise except you are not ocing it. Without that playing a role the supply becomes a likely concern.


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## Kornowski

So, It's probably the PSU then...


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## salman

Kornowski said:


> So, It's probably the PSU then...



Do you have access to a second computer(a friends computer maybe?)   If you do you could try temporarily swapping around the power supply just to diagnose the problem and then if this doesn't work try temporarily swapping around the graphics card (thats if it is the same interface AGP or PCIx16). hope this helps.


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## Kornowski

I don't think there is anybody that would let me do that...
I think my graphics card is fine... It's right next to an intake fan so it's pretty cool, I don' have anything to tell the temp of it though...


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## PohTayToez

He said that it was saying that there were specific files to blame for the restarting, and in my experience, when a power supply is to blame the computer just restarts, it doesn't display an error message first.


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## Jet

Kornowski said:


> I don't think there is anybody that would let me do that...
> I think my graphics card is fine... It's right next to an intake fan so it's pretty cool, I don' have anything to tell the temp of it though...



So you've tried ATItool and it doesn't show anything?


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## PC eye

With this being seen on a stock system and an unknown 400w supply the likelihood of that being unstable increases greatly. This has been the one common factor through all this upon seeing the temps within normal ranges. The ATI tool being referred to there is the ATI utility for OCing ATI model cards. A review and download of the latest version is found at http://www.techpowerup.com/atitool/


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## Kornowski

COLORSit 400U

+3.3V = 20A
+5V = 30A
+12V = 20A
5V = 0.5A
-12V = 0.8A
+5VSB = 2.5A

Input 230VAC 10A 50 60Hz

Thats my PSU... So, I get that tool and check the temp of my GPU and see if it is overheating...


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## salman

Hi there, like some of the others i think it is likely to be your PSU. From where did you buy your PSU, how long have you had it, is it still under guarantee. On one occasion when the cheep PSU on my old computer died (unfortunatley it had just gone out of the guarantee) i took the rest of my computer down to microdirect, where i had bought all the seperate components from, and they were more than happy to test wether or not the rest of the computer was working and wethere it was thye PSU that was cvausing my problems


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## Kornowski

I've had it about a month or two... It came with my Case... lol.

I don't live near Microdirect so I can't take it there...


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## devilswing5

reformat your computer then installed spaware adware and anti virus program or deep freeze.


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## PC eye

Kornowski said:


> I've had it about a month or two... It came with my Case... lol.
> 
> I don't live near Microdirect so I can't take it there...


 
 A supply that comes with the case is "too often"...    !!! some cheap low end dumper they stick in!


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## Kornowski

Yeah, I've looked at others on the net and some that cost £30 put out less that 18A on the 12 V rail?


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## PC eye

The one time I ordered a case with a supply the news wasn't good! After the first two weeks the system failed to start one day until a substitute was installed. Hopefully someone here can look over the makes and models at the vendors you can order from and pick up something worth the time.


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## Kornowski

I just want to check before I go ahead and buy everything...

Are you sure a new PSU will fix the problem?


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## Kornowski

Anybody?


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## PC eye

There won't be any guaranty since this is only the most likely while not being verified 100%. If it later did prove to be the board, cpu, or even video card you will have a better supply for the replacement(s)? or even later for a new build down the road.


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## Kornowski

I'm getting a new CPU and MOBO with the PSU so I'm hoping this completely gets rid of the problem, I'm going to go ape if it doesn't!


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## PC eye

So what have you finally decided on there for those?


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## Kornowski

Well, I know the motherboard is going to be the ASRock 775DUAL-VISTA becasue I get to keep most of the stuff I have now.

As for the CPU, I know it's an Intel Core 2 but I don't know what yet, Actually, I think it's going to be the E6300 but there's a *slight* chance it could the E6600...


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## PC eye

You'll have to show this link to some people that were discussing PCI-E 1x, 2x ,4x, 8x, and 16x on another thread. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157092 You have the AGP slot for your present video card but NADA for a new PCI-E 16x card later. That's on draw back you'll come across if later planning a DX10 model card.


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## Kornowski

I've read up on it and people have said that I won't notice a difference there and it isn't that important...


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## PC eye

I wouldn't worry about it too much for the moment as long as you get a good running case together. You will notice a big jump going from the old Atholon cpu into a dual core system however. That should see a smile fast when things speed by much faster and you start saying "slow down"!


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## Kornowski

Lol, Yeah, I will see a huge difference... How long have the XP models been out now?

Well, that doesn't bother me, this'll be the last upgrade for a good while


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## PC eye

It's been 5yrs. for the Atholon XP2000 first seen in January of 2002. But to see the full history of AMD you first have to go to http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html  and install the latest version of Apple's QuickTime 7. From there you can proceed to http://www3pub.amd.com/video/history-qt.html


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## Kornowski

Wow, That is a long time, It's time for an upgrade!


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## PC eye

You have to edit and choose the delete post option! The first Atholon was a 900mhz model I've seen discussed back in 2000. That's about the time the first Socket A board were available. Those soon replaced the Slot A boards.


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## Kornowski

Yeah, Socket A is damn old!

I can't wait to get this upgrade!


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## Shane

Kornowski said:


> Yeah, Socket A is damn old!
> 
> I can't wait to get this upgrade!



Looks like il be the only remaining computer forum member using an old Socket A system then 

you traitor Kornowski  

Nah hopefully i can get me a new system built up soon


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## Kornowski

Nevakonaza said:


> Looks like il be the only remaining computer forum member using an old Socket A system then
> 
> you traitor Kornowski
> 
> Nah hopefully i can get me a new system built up soon



I think there's one or two others...

I'm not traitor! Come to the dark side 

Yeah, Are you still going to take a look at a computer fair with your cousin?


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## Shane

Kornowski said:


> I'm not traitor! Come to the dark side
> 
> Yeah, Are you still going to take a look at a computer fair with your cousin?



Nah im only joking about the traitor thingy 

Yes i definatly will go with him next time he goes....havnt asked him when hes going though next time.

Hes usualy building Pcs for people so probably soon.


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## Kornowski

I know, I've been on the Socket A for about 4 years!

Yeah, You should! Hope you get what you want!


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## Kornowski

I've tried changing the Remote Procedure Call, I'll let you know if it helps...

Also, If it is my PSU, why do I get an error message, The PSU isn't a system part as such... ?


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## PC eye

The link here provides some troubleshooting information on 20pin supplies. http://www.fonerbooks.com/power.htm In the meantime here's a guide to review when going to choose a new supply you can look over. http://www.askkia.com/articles/how-to-choose-a-power-supply.html


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## Kornowski

That flow chart isn't really helpfull, but thanks 

I'll have to wait and see if this Remote Procedure Call setting was the cause...

If it was, Do you think I could use my current PSU with an E6300?


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## MrJohnDough

yes can run on e6300. e6300eats less power than pentiums or athlons.

check your memory with memtest86. maybe your memory is bad.
random restarts is classic symptom of bad memory.
or unplug unnessesary cd drives or any other non crucial electric
devices and see if your system works fine. maybe your PSU does not
provide enought juice for everything you have.


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## Kornowski

I thought I'd fixed the probelm, but Nope! It did it again! 

It puts out 20A on the 12V rail... I think I'll get a new one to be sure... I'm hoping it works!

I've ran memtest and its fine, it got to 100% and there were no errors...


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## Kornowski

One FINAL last question and then I'll stop bothering you all 

If I got a new PSU and a new MOBO and CPU do you think it would get rid of the problem?

Thanks for any help


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## Shane

well as youve said mate you have run memtest and its come back fine with no errors so it must be your psu thats dodgy.

I should think getting a new one alongside your new system parts would sort the problem out.


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## Kornowski

Ok thanks, I really hope it does!


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## MrJohnDough

ok try to install clean windows or whatever operating system u use
if it still restarts.
then it's most probably unstable PSU.

you don't need 'new motherboard' new ram and new everything.

get antec psu. one of the most stable voltage psu out there.
good luck


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## Kornowski

I know, I don't need to get a new CPU and MOBO but I think it's time for an upgrade anyway... plus with the MOBO I found I can keep my RAM and GPU...

I'll try and clean copy of XP, Yeah...

ceewi1 pointed me towards a good PSU, the one I'm going to get actually!

The Antec EarthWatts 380W


----------



## PC eye

Everytime I look in an office supply store or places like Circuit City, Target, Compusa, and even the pc fair just attended I look around to see what makes and models are sold. Antec. While there are a number of good makes out your situation gave you some limited options and ceewi1 apparently pointed you at the best choice. I doubt you will be system pounding where a 500-700w model is a must.


----------



## bldgengineer

After burning up 4 PSU's, this to me sounds like a burned PSU.

oh and btw, I still run dual 800mhz amd processors.  9 years and counting.


----------



## PC eye

Surprisingly AMD and Cyrix cpus alike were at one time labeled Intel "clones" due to the similarities seen on the early models. The one thing to remember on the pre-Atholon models was the lower temps seen. That gave those a longer life. Well the old T-Birds used to be oced like crazy. But it sounds like you could use a good Antec model yourself after seeing 4 supplies cook?!   I've yet to see one go bad while others have seen their days go quick.


----------



## bldgengineer

LOL! Well the only good thing about having a cheap PSU while living in an area prone to brown outs without a battery back up is the PSU is what "normally" takes the hit. I say normally because I have gone through a couple of mobos as well. 

Needless to say, after the next build(within a month or so) I _will_ be buying a decent UPS and PSU


----------



## bldgengineer

Don't get me wrong, I love my dinosaur. I just think its time it get replaced. 

I can remember one time I came home from vacation and (surpise, surprise) we had a brown out while I was gone. Well it fried the mobo. Not the entire mobo just ports for both of the CPU fan power supplies. Max temp readings were 110c with system shutdown @ 120c. My system stayed online long enough for me to get my report done while surfing the internet for references with a 56k modem. 

These are the same 2 processors I have today. My only fear is if I have a brown out tonight and my mobo crashes, I'd have to buy a new PC tomorrow.


----------



## PC eye

That will be thrilling with a preinstalled Vista package I can imagine. I managed to shell out for a system builders edition ealier. Since putting this case together there has only been one power outage during an electrical storm. No harm done there however. You may want to invest in some good line surge protection along with the backup.


----------



## Kornowski

Whats a brown out?

Another question 

If its the PSU that is causing the problems, why do I get an error message when it boots back up, the PSU isn't part of the computer, if that makes sense...?


----------



## Kornowski

Any Suggestions?


----------



## bldgengineer

Is the error message "windows did not shutdown properly so windows recommends doing a system scan" blah blah blah?


----------



## Kornowski

Nope, It's says "Your system has recovered from a serious error...blah blah"

When I view the technical details there are two files named in the temps files... I've tried deleting them but they are being used by another program...


----------



## bldgengineer

Is your system defaulted to automatically restart in case of a crash? if so or you don't know do this:

right click my Computer, left click properties then the advanced tab, click on the startup & recovery settings box and uncheck automatically restart.

The next time it happens it should give you a blue screen of death. Write down whatever it says and put it up here.


----------



## Kornowski

Is that safe to do?


----------



## PC eye

Kornowski said:


> Nope, It's says "Your system has recovered from a serious error...blah blah"
> 
> When I view the technical details there are two files named in the temps files... I've tried deleting them but they are being used by another program...


 
 If the option to "press any key now to stop" the disk check utility message is seen let the drive tool run. You can also go to the Run prompt and type in dskchk.exe and press the enter key. You will then be asked to schedule it for the next startup. Do it! Let the system tool run so Windows has a record of this as well as fixing any minor problems found. This is due to a bad shutdown and there's no need to delete any files.


----------



## Kornowski

So It's OK to do that, Ok, I'll try that out...

I typed dskchk.exe into CMD and it's isn't recognized...


----------



## PC eye

You might have had to type cmd in first. I know that you can also have it scheduled to run on the next bootup. But there are a few other ways besides the Run prompt to get it started. The MS link shows a few different steps for a manual start of the utility. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q315265 

In the meantime if you restart and see it then just it run for the few minutes it takes. On the next startup it won't be there to worry about.


----------



## Kornowski

http://wer.microsoft.com/responses/....2.0?SGD=a7e8ab1a-27f8-42c1-a6ca-7ac4779ad723

I got this before... It's restarted twice today... Do you still think its the PSU?


----------



## PC eye

A blue of screen of foobarville can be easily caused by the incorrect driver version or bad install of something as well as memory faults that have developed. But this is a new error you are now seeing there. When your new supply comes in you will know for sure then. Gee? I still haven't put the 550w in yet? hmmm I got the sata going with ease with the 480w. I guess that will be waiting for the next build.


----------



## Kornowski

I've seen this before... It varies sometimes its this and sometimes it 'unkown'

There aren't any bad drivers that I have on, that I know about... I've got all the latest ones for the video card...

I got the latest one for the sound card but the sound went funny in Oblivion so I had to get rid of it


----------



## tweaker

Post the complete information found on the PSU side sticker. That X850 sure drain some power.

*Edit:* Never mind.


----------



## Kornowski

I've posted it on a previous page...

It does it while just surfing the inter web too...


----------



## Kornowski

I found this thing that tell me what Drivers are out of date and what not...







I thought I had the latest ATI drivers!

I tried getting the latest drivers for me sound card (AC97) but that messed up my sound so I got rid of it... Do you think anything there could be causing the problem?

Thanks


----------



## Kornowski

Anybody?


----------



## PC eye

Realtek's AC97 has been known for sound dropouts but not the problems you have been seeing. When mentioning drivers earlier that isn't limited to video and sound there. Games as well as other programs have their own types of drivers. You're facing a hardware problem following the recent clean install of Windows ruling out viruses and too many possible driver conflicts seeing restarts. If anything you would be seeing Windows lockup when drivers hung.


----------



## joeswm8

how is this 133 replies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats crazy, and the solution to your problem is quite clear.

its a simple clean install btw.


thank you, thank you, i know i am good


----------



## PC eye

A clean install of Windows was recently done just before the problems began. How do you figure a clean is needed again? As explained earlier the supply is the culprit seeing power dropoffs. The new one should clean up this situation fast enough even if the new board, cpu, and any other upgrades goes on hold for the time being.


----------



## Kornowski

Ok Thanks PCEye, I think I'll get the new ATI drivers too


----------



## PC eye

If the latest also sees problems you will have to go with the basic driver set or locate an older Catalyst version. This is rather a common problem then where the latest are written for newer model cards and no longer support the older model. I ran into this with the old Radeon 9550.


----------



## Kornowski

I haven't got them yet, But I hope that my card will be Ok, It should be...


----------



## PC eye

At least you can find them easy enough with the Catalyst 7.1 found at http://ati.de/support/drivers/xp/radeonx-xp.html I'm still waiting to see if Creative will have a patch for the SB Audigy line. The beta drivers lack the EAX support where you are left with Open AL only.


----------



## Kornowski

I'm going to try over the week-end leaving it on for a while, but just in the BIOS and if it restarts that way I know it isn't a software issue...


----------



## Fr33d0m

Check to be sure you are not overheating as well.  Back when I did not know a lot about overclocking, I tried to overclock my system without a good amount of fans and it would frequently overheat and reboot.  Make sure all your fans on your system are workign correctly and nothing is too hot.


----------



## Kornowski

I don't overclock and I can see that all 3 of my fans are working fine, but thanks


----------



## PC eye

I thought you had temps ruled out when previously checking the hardware monitor in the bios. The problem you are having mainly points at the supply as being an unstable element. It simply isn't handling the normal demands on power like it should.


----------



## Kornowski

Yeah, my temps are fine! 

I've left my computer in the BIOS since 8:30am today, it's now 5:30pm and it was still in the BIOS indicating that it hadn't restared, does this mean that the problem is software related?


----------



## Kornowski

What do you think?


----------



## PC eye

Most everything while in the bios is either idle or simply not loaded yet where there is any demand on for power. Once you load all of the video and sound drivers as well background services and other things the load on the supply increases. With the recent fresh installation of Windows the virus and clutter of unnecessary items causing problems is almost totally ruled out there. And how long has this been going on?

 It keeps coming back to a shaky supply or some board or cpu fault being seen. Memtest didn't find anything. By the way memtest is now included in Vista as a new startup option!


----------



## Kornowski

This has been going on for about 3 or 4 months now... Yeah, I don't think the BIOS thing would actually help...

That's good, all the little things I keep hearing make it sound more and more tempting.


----------



## PC eye

On the leat build here there were times months it saw a cooked cpu it would start rebooting suddenly while in the middle of something. With memory later ruled the stock hsf was replaced. The remaining problems seen were system freezeups on some occasions until the 3rd party cpu cooler quite one day. The thing to note there however was the sudden restarts weren't constant. Much of that surprisingly turned out to be sound not video drivers until that one fateday where the cpu went.... d... o... a...


----------



## Kornowski

*WHAT THE HELL! IT JUST DID IT AGAIN!

I JUST BOUGHT A NEW PSU AND IT STILL DOES IT! WTF CAN IT BE!?

I'M PISSED! *

*Here's what it tells me!!!!! *


BCCode : 1000008e     BCP1 : C0000005     BCP2 : BFA3F378     BCP3 : ED8F4898
BCP4 : 00000000     OSVer : 5_1_2600     SP : 2_0     Product : 768_1     

C:\DOCUME~1\Daniel\LOCALS~1\Temp\WER0528.dir00\Mini022307-01.dmp
C:\DOCUME~1\Daniel\LOCALS~1\Temp\WER0528.dir00\sysdata.xml


----------



## Shane

Kornowski said:


> *WHAT THE HELL! IT JUST DID IT AGAIN!
> 
> I JUST BOUGHT A NEW PSU AND IT STILL DOES IT! WTF CAN IT BE!?
> 
> I'M PISSED! *
> 
> *Here's what it tells me!!!!! *
> 
> 
> BCCode : 1000008e     BCP1 : C0000005     BCP2 : BFA3F378     BCP3 : ED8F4898
> BCP4 : 00000000     OSVer : 5_1_2600     SP : 2_0     Product : 768_1
> 
> C:\DOCUME~1\Daniel\LOCALS~1\Temp\WER0528.dir00\Mini022307-01.dmp
> C:\DOCUME~1\Daniel\LOCALS~1\Temp\WER0528.dir00\sysdata.xml



ooh man thats bad...it must be something else but i dunno


----------



## Kornowski

I found this but there isn't anything that I can find or do?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/894278


----------



## Kornowski

Please 

I bought a PSU and now it didn't even help... Aww Man!


----------



## PC eye

You're caught in a catch-44 as well as a catch-22 there apparently. You just ruled out the supply as the problem being seen unless some other problem has come up on you. This is starting to point more at the board or cpu even unless you are now in a software driver dilemna. With the recent reformat that does rule out "bugs" while not the programs you have installed during this time if there are no hardware faults found.


----------



## PC eye

Kornowski said:


> Please
> 
> I bought a PSU and now it didn't even help... Aww Man!


 
 How did you manage this now you posted at 9:25 while I posted at 9:24 yet your post is seen ahead of mine? That's another glitch that seems to have come up.   less costly however.


----------



## StrangleHold

What voltage are you running the CPU, think that one was 1.6-1.65V. I,ve built a few XP 3000 systems that did the same thing. The 3000 ran at 1.6-1.65V but some boards would default it to 1.6. Things would just restart out of the blue. Jumped the voltage to 1.65 and it Fixed it. I just figured that some XPs low voltage settings was at the borderline!


----------



## PC eye

The XP2400+ is on the system there. The Atholon boards I ran never saw that until the cpu fan went foobar seeing high temps. When the stock hsf was replaced from that the fan on the 3rd cooler failed to see overheating. But the temps there seem to be well within tolerance. Voltage problem, bios eprom, failing chipset, you name it at this point except for the supply.


----------



## Kornowski

PC eye said:


> You're caught in a catch-44 as well as a catch-22 there apparently. You just ruled out the supply as the problem being seen unless some other problem has come up on you. This is starting to point more at the board or cpu even unless you are now in a software driver dilemna. With the recent reformat that does rule out "bugs" while not the programs you have installed during this time if there are no hardware faults found.



Yeah, I know.

I could try another install of XP and see what ti does...
How many times can you install XP Home?



PC eye said:


> How did you manage this now you posted at 9:25 while I posted at 9:24 yet your post is seen ahead of mine? That's another glitch that seems to have come up.   less costly however.



I posted an hour behind you  



StrangleHold said:


> What voltage are you running the CPU, think that one was 1.6-1.65V. I,ve built a few XP 3000 systems that did the same thing. The 3000 ran at 1.6-1.65V but some boards would default it to 1.6. Things would just restart out of the blue. Jumped the voltage to 1.65 and it Fixed it. I just figured that some XPs low voltage settings was at the borderline!









Don't know if that helps at all...

Would increasing the voltage not damage anything at all?



PC eye said:


> The XP2400+ is on the system there. The Atholon boards I ran never saw that until the cpu fan went foobar seeing high temps. When the stock hsf was replaced from that the fan on the 3rd cooler failed to see overheating. But the temps there seem to be well within tolerance. Voltage problem, bios eprom, failing chipset, you name it at this point except for the supply.



The hsf are all attatched and the fan is spinning fine.
Temps are Ok too, Idle at 34c, load 43c.

I was thinking, I may have more brass stad-offs in the case than I need, could these be touching anything on the MOBO causing it to short circuit?

Thanks


----------



## Kornowski

Right,

So I checked my BIOS and PC Eye suggested I change my FSB from 166mhz to 133mhz, but it was set to auto and was already at 133 mhz.

I couldn't find an option to increase the voltage either in my BIOS.


----------



## PC eye

Generally if you have something touching ground on the board the system won't even start. Many times people have ended up taking the board out and lying on a non conductive surface with only the supply and video card when they thought the board was no good on a new build or when swapping cases.

 Bringing up the voltage setting especially on an older cpu where you don't know ehere the problem whether hardware or software at this point could be disasterous for the cpu if that was in the process of going on you. When the old cpu here cooked I found it would run at the 166mhz setting in the bios while failing at the 200mhz setting. But I knew what the problem was.


----------



## Kornowski

Yeah, I can't touch the voltage anyway...
So you don't think it could be the brass stand-offs?

I know I've ran Memtest, but I'll try it with one stick of RAM in tonight... then try the other one... Just to check...

Any other suggestions?


----------



## PC eye

I don't think for a moment the memory you have is causing this. You would have been seeing other problems like startup hangs along with possible multiple audio beeps at post. Board related, cpu wearout most likely. A weak battery can't be ruled out. But that usually stalls a system not repeat restarts over a period of regular usage.

 This has been going on for too long suggesting bad caps on the board since the supply can be ruled out. Or possible chipset or bios eprom failure coming on. That would be the hardware side besides the video card. Some updates even for Socket A boards had a winflash program. Otherwise burning the Asus awdflash tool onto a cd would be the option.


----------



## Kornowski

I'll see if I can try some RAM from my Dad's computer, he has the same type, PC2700.

So, you're saying a CPU and MOBO failure could be the problem?

Would the video card see restarts? I don't think it's that though...

Should I update the BIOS using winflash then? Is it easy?


----------



## StrangleHold

Kornowski said:


> Don't know if that helps at all...
> 
> Would increasing the voltage not damage anything at all?


 
Looks like its at 1.65 anyway, and as far as what PCeye said (no) increasing your voltage from 1.60 to 1.65 when those are the recomended voltages will not hurt anything! But your 12v voltage looks a little low at 11.73V. Down load PC Wizard and see what it says
http://www.cpuid.com/pcwizard.php


----------



## Kornowski

Would it just be easier for me to get a new MOBO and CPU, it's time for an upgrade... Whats the likely hood of it still happening then?

Could it be my HDD?

If it's any help, when it restarts the fans don't go off...


----------



## Kornowski

So my voltages are Ok anyway, I didn't have the option to put them up...


----------



## StrangleHold

Does it shut down at random times or is there something your doing thats the same when it restarts


----------



## Kornowski

StrangleHold said:


> Does it shut down at random times or is there something your doing thats the same when it restarts



Nope, It's completely random, I could be doing anything or nothing and it'll do it...


----------



## StrangleHold

It could be something as simple as a driver or a installed program, I would update (all) the drivers-chipset-sound-lan-video card and not from ASrock. think that one has a nvidia chip with Realtek lan and CMedia AC97 sound


----------



## Kornowski

It does tell me there's a driver problem when I do the error report...
But when I turned off the automatic restart thing in advanced options, I got the blue screen, but nothing on it, it was blanc.

I tried getting the latest sound drivers once and had to get the old ones because the sound went funny when I was playing Oblivion so I went back.

Yeah, it has an Nvidia chip but I'm using a graphics card on the motherboard.

Why not from ASRock?


----------



## StrangleHold

Alot of the time the board manufacture will be behind on the drivers on there site. Have you tried these for your sound
http://www.cmedia.com.tw/?q=en/driver

Yours is the CMI9761


----------



## Kornowski

Thanks for the link, I'll try them tonight, I may of had the wrong ones...

I found the lated BIOS for my board, How do I install it without using a floppy?

Do you think this could stop it all?

Thanks for your help so far


----------



## StrangleHold

Hard to tell but could be, I would just make sure you dont have a driver or program problem before you start on hardware.


----------



## Kornowski

Yeah, I hope it's a simple driver update.

I've read up on the internet and there are LOADS of people with this problem but they haven't found a way of solving it


----------



## StrangleHold

I,m not a big fan of ASrock but I have had a few that ran right When I used to Build Socket 462s I hated Abit boards, the boards were good but had alot of bios issues, yea your kinda stuck on upgrading there, going 939 would be just another dead end and going AM2 or C2D you would almost have to replace everything


----------



## Kornowski

I think they're Ok.

No, no, I've found an LGA775 board that can have DDR or DDR2 RAM and an AGP or a PCI-e GPU 

I can't wait to get it!
I'll try the drivers once I get in, It may be a while before it restarts though, it doesn't allways do it...


----------



## StrangleHold

Yea I think theres a ASrock board that will run a 939 and AM2 plus DDR and DDR2 too!


----------



## Kornowski

Oh right, this is an ASRock one too, The 775DUAL-VISTA, It looks good!
I'll get back to you later on weather the drivers work, I'll also update the BIOS and see how that goes.


----------



## Kornowski

Will I need to clear the CMOS if I update the BIOS...

I'll be using WinFlash too.


----------



## Kornowski

If it may be related to drivers:






Notice there is two ATI X850 drivers, which one should I get rid of?

Also, I noticed it happened after I installed the drivers that came with my monitor... I don't think I really need then as it goes through my graphics card and it may be interfeiring... Could be a display driver clash or something?


----------



## Kornowski

When I update the BIOS should I clear the CMOS?

Also, When using WinFlash, what options should I tick (do)
http://www.amdzone.com/pics/motherboards/biostar/nf4ul-a9/winflash.JPG

Thanks


----------



## Kornowski

Another problem, I tried to install the latest driver for my onboard sound and it gets to 94% and stops, windows new hardware thing then pops up and says new hardware found what do you want to do, I can't install it becasue it doesn't know its there when I have sound and it clearly is!


----------



## Kornowski

Ok, So after all that, I can't get the latest sound drivers, my sound went when I tried, so I had to put the ones that came with the MOBO disc back on, that works again.

I got the latest ATI drivers no problem, phew!

I'm not updating the BIOS becasue I don't have a floppy drive and I don't want to risk it doing it through Windows!

and I un-installed the drivers for my monitor because they aren't needed and they may of been clashing with my ATI ones, just wait and see...


----------



## Kornowski

Ok, So I thought it was Ok becasue it hadn't restarted for a while, I did all the stuff mentioned above and it did it again! Why?

Ok,

I'll try some more RAM in my computer if I can persuade my Dad.
Could it be the HDD, it is a bit old?
Could it be the CPU, again, it's old?

Please help!


----------



## PC eye

First you have to slow down a little to give someone else time to respond. It's a little awkward trying to flip back and forth between pages.   When you want to add more simply use the edit to add to the last reply. I'm going back over the entire thread with the feeling we are still missing something.

 On the flash program you have to go with blue there. This program perform only a partial update by one section at a time. The green section to abort the update which you don't want there. Start off with the boot section and run that. If you don't see the screen later to update the main block you will have to restart the program in order to update the main block and see that done. Hopefully you will see a good flash and this will correct the problems you have been seeing.

 The time you lose information and the cmos is cleared is when on old boards you simply moved the jumper back and forth while on the newer boards since those days you remove the battery from the holder. A fresh battery? At this point absolutely since a weak battery will see the loss of cmos information at times. With the new supply the one idea right off is to make that it doesn't have any defects. Too bad you didn't have another case to throw it in while still under warranty to see if the new one is foobar? Have it tested anyways.


----------



## Kornowski

Just as I was typing a reply it restarted 

I don't know if this helps at all but I had music playing and the sound juttered and then reset...

I'm not going to flash the BIOS becuase I don't have a floppy drive and I've read that it isn't safe to do through Windows. It would wreck the whole MOBO and I don't want that, well... Hmm.

Could it be an old HDD or CPU?


----------



## PC eye

I used winflash tools at times on the older Socket A boards here without problems. But the lack of a floppy drive for a dos utility suggests it may or might not burn to a cd-r good. The instructions seen on this model come up in a popup window that you would want to follow closely even if you slao a floppy drive in a 5 1/4" drive bay adapter for this.

»BIOS Update UtilityASRFLASH.EXE: The Flash Memory Writer utility is included in the WinZip format of BIOS file. It updates the BIOS by uploading a new BIOS file to the programmable flash ROM chip on the motherboard. To determine the BIOS version of your motherboard, press <F2> to enter the BIOS setup utility during bootup, and check the BIOS version from the Main menu. Larger numbers represent a newer BIOS file. This utility works only in DOS mode. (How do I check the BIOS version?)

How do I check the BIOS version?1.The BIOS version can be found during system boot up.






2.The BIOS version can be found in BIOS setup utility.




The Flash Memory Writer utility can not be suitable for all ASRock motherboards. Please use the Flash utility which is included in each BIOS file to update its BIOS. Also ASRock motherboard *MUST* use ASRock's Flash utility to update BIOS, those uncertified BIOS flashing tools will cause motherboard damage.

»Updating BIOS Procedures

Create a bootable system floppy disk.
Download an updated ASRock BIOS file (WinZip format with .zip file extension) from the web site, unzip the BIOS file and save both ASRFLASH.EXE utility and BIOS file to the disk you created in step 1.
Boot from the disk you created in step 2.
At the "A:\" prompt, type ASRFLASH, hit space bar once, and type BIOS file name then press <Enter>. For example: A:\ASRFLASH K7S41GX2.00 <Enter> then you will see a message "Please wait for BIOS loading ROM".
After 30 seconds, you will see the message "Flash ROM Update Completed - Pass", then you have finished upgrading the BIOS.
After finishing upgrading the BIOS, please remove the floppy disk. Restart your system and press <F2> to enter the BIOS setup utility during boot up.
In Exit menu, please select "Load Default Settings" and press <Enter> to continue.
Select "Exit Saving Changes" and press <Enter> to exit the BIOS setup utility.
Now, system is booting up with new BIOS.
»Notice
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




If you encounter problems while updating the new BIOS, *DO NOT* turn off your system since this corrupt BIOS might cause your system failed to boot up. Just repeat the process, and if the problem still persists, update the original BIOS file. If the Flash Memory Writer utility was not able to successfully update a complete BIOS file, your system may not be able to boot up. If this happens, your system will need service. http://www.asrock.com/mb/download.asp?Model=K7NF2-RAID


----------



## Kornowski

Thanks for the link to the drivers for my MOBO, will I have to get the Nvidea chip ones even if I aren't using it?

Do I have to update the BIOS?
Could it not be anything else?


----------



## PC eye

Updating the drivers for the board is routine there. The update should have it's own installer to see those go right on. Without a floppy drive the winflash method looked pretty basic there. You may have to start it up twice to see both the boot and main blocks updated.

 Backing up the current bios may not be such a bad idea either if you see a bad flash for some reason where a second copy would then need to be downloaded. Often however some will require backing that up on... a floppy? or at least into a folder for possible burn to a cd-r if you have a cd writer? The links here should be reviewed carefully. If it turn out to be the board you'll be glad to see the newer EZ Flash type bios on a new model board.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/41/

http://www.toejumper.net/rescue3/bios3.htm This one also points out the common need to replace the Lithium battery common on most boards. If that has grown weak it can cause a few problems.

 The easy method for the AMI bios there is to read this.
*Backing Up AMI BIOS*

AMI Bios software is interactive, which means you don't need any fancy command to backup your BIOS. Just tell the software, using its menus, to save the BIOS contents to a file. http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/41


----------



## Kornowski

If I loose the original BIOS but have it saved and the flash doesn't go right, I won't be able to put the BIOS back on becasue it wouldn't boot if it didn't have it would it?

Well, I'm seeing how the sound drivers have affected it, it hasn't done it for a day or two, it may of been that? *fingers crossed*

EDIT: Wasn't the sound drivers, did it again!  

I'm starting to think it's more the board.


----------



## Kornowski

Got this when I turned off the automatic restart setting:






I've got the latest drivers for my GPU?


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## PC eye

That BSOD is from the ATI driver seen right there. Did you just put the latest catalyst. 6.11 on? Remember you are running an older AGP model there. That same type of error was seen on the last build a few times until going back for the Cat. 5.11 for a Radeon 9550 model. You probably won't be able to use a version over 6.4 or 6.5 unless installing the basic drivers only. Unfortunately the newer CATs see often see problems on older cards.

 As far as the board I advised going with a different make when you first got that one. The winflash method usually goes on much easier then the older floppy style dos tools where you have to type in everything in letter and number for letter and number to see it work. Since you are already in Windows you can also redownload a fresh copy if something foobars on you during the first attempt. If it is the board with a major problem it won't hurt trying to see it updated since that may be what it needs.


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## Kornowski

So, You're saying I should go with an older CAT? or just use the latest display drivers?

I know updating the BIOS is one thing to try but I really don't feel comfortable doing that... Do you have a link to a suitable CAT that I could use please


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## Kornowski

I was thinking, when I went to the ATI / AMD web-site, I had to select my card and it gave me the drives I have now, the latest one.

Why would they do that if they knew it'd cause problems?


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## PC eye

A winflash method of updating the bios version usually goes right on without problems. You can even run it a few times while Windows is still running to see a good flash when you see all blocks change color. Sometimes the latest catalyst can still be a problem depending on the software environment and games you run. A game like HL2 will throw a prompt up as soon as a new version is available.

 Yet you can still run a slightly older version to avert problems or even disable it from autoloading with Windows. The catalyst itself only acts like a desktop manager with color correction, vpu recovery if a game stalls on you, or sets up a mutl display by extending the desktop. It's generally not an essential item and can be shutdown while Windows is still running if problems are seen when gaming. It's been known for this.


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## Kornowski

I'll get rid of the control centre and see if it helps, Thanks.


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## Kornowski

Right, So I tried just the latest display drivers, that didn't work, restarted.

Then I trued the drivers that came with my card, that didn't work, restarted.

So I searched for the file casusing the problem, restarted.

And finally got to this:





What should I do?
I'll try the drivers PC Eye suggested.


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## Kornowski

Suggestions anybody?


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## PC eye

After removing and reinstalling and removing to reinstall again I would add that a good run of a free registry cleaner will help clean up excess reg values to avoid seeing driver clashes. http://www.majorgeeks.com/RegCleaner_d460.html

 The Catalyst can also be disabled from automatically loading with Windows or simply shut down by right clicking on the icon usually seen in the system tray. If you use the msconfig to disable it from automatically starting up you can manually start it at any time with the desktop icon generally seen. Before installing one version make sure you totally remove the existing set of drivers with the ATI uninstaller. Something left over may be what you are seeing there with the blue screen message.


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## Kornowski

Well, It hadn't done it for about 3 days now it did it again, while playing FEAR, but the blue screen was emptyy, it was just blue, no text?


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## PC eye

Your video card is the primary suspect at this point since the reversal to the older Catalyst has seen some good results. With the supply, memory, cpu, and apparently the board now ruled out you are ever stuck with a flaky card acting up when a load is on it or you may simply have another software problem going on. The previous BSODs pointed at the Catalyst with the driver being specified. Take notes on anything else seen for troubleshooting.


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## Kornowski

I didn't go for an older driver I just went for the latest Display Drivers, It seemed to have worked. I just don't know why there wasn't any text of the BSOD?

It could still be the board though, I'll give it a little while more and see what it does.


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## PC eye

The bsod you saw with the ATI driver was plain and simple there to correct. I was wondering if you had seen the same error on previous occasions? Besides a fault being found with the board it may be a simple setting change in the bios itself that see results. You may have to disable plug'n'plug or some other change if this isn't strictly software related at this point.


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## Kornowski

I had seen the ATI BSOD before, Then I fixed that, and I then got an empty blue screen, this was only playing FEAR and I haven't had it any other time... What setting do you think it could be? Couldn't be the AGP Apature size could it?

Any help would be appreciated


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## PC eye

On older boards the advice often given was to set the AGP aperature to the default 64mb when problems were being seen. This lowers the amount of video memory shared with the board. You can try that out at any time to see if you notice any improvement. But the BSODs without error messages seem more directed at the video card itself since previous errors were seen. A failing chip or intermittency being seen with the card could explain a lot.


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## Kornowski

Ok, I'll try lowering the aperature size, will this decrease performance in games?

So it could be the card, I really hope it isn't 
No error message seems to make me thing it's a hardware problem, because it would tell me if there was a file to blame.


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## PC eye

The problems with restarting after this amount of time just following a wipe and fresh install initially saw the catalyst error as one cause. But that was a fast correction with the simple swap of versions. No beep code alerts, supply swapped, memory tested, went days after catalyst swap rules out a few things right away. The board wouldn't have remained stable is that or even the new supply was seeing problems. You're running out of hardwares!


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## Kornowski

Yeah, I'm just wondering how bad it was to begin with, I then fixed that and it didn't do it for about 4 days and now it does a different one, every now and again.

I'd take my GPU out but there isn't a plug on the back of my MOBO for my monitor and I don't have an adaptor that would fit it?

So, you don't think it could be the board or the CPU?


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## PC eye

Did you update the bios? That may have a fix for something needed. You should find the AGP aperature at the default 64mb or 128mb already. You could try this or the system file checker "sfc /scannow" at the Run prompt to see if it catches anything there. You moved the 2400+ to this board when that was swapped and maybe starting to go. That can't be ruled out 100% at this time since gaming places a good load on it at times.


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## Kornowski

Nope, I didn't update the BIOS, I didn't want it to go wrong, but I could try it I supose if there's nothing that could go wrong, remember I don't have a floppy drive and my MOBO didn't come with any BIOS updating software.

Yeah, My AGP aperature is set to 128mb.

I ran the sfc /scannow and it told me that DDL Caches needed the Windows CD putting in, this is the theme patcher that I have installed. I doubt that it would cause any problems? Do you?

Yeah, My CPU was bought with a PC about 4 years about, It may be on it's way out, I really doubt it's my graphics card, it isn't that old and there's not architecture or anything before it BSOD's me.


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## subtle

Did you finally check the PSU? (too many pages to read just to find out you did it or not) 
I had similar problem and it was PSU fault.


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## Kornowski

Yeah, I replaced the PSU that came with the case with the one I have now in my sig and it still did it, but then I got rid of the old drivers using a cleaner program and put the latest display drivers on, and it worked fine for about 4 days. and then it did it agian, but this time it was an empty BSOD, it doesn't happen anywhere near as frequently as it used to either?


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## PC eye

Some of the bios updates for Asus boards come with winflash capability where you simply run it wihile Windows is running. With some cd writing programs you can also make up bootable cds rather then floppies. Or you could use a 5 1/4" drive adapter to add a floppy drive if needed even if you have to borrow it. If you can cover the shipping costs I could send you my spare Sony for this. But the adapter I had here was used in an eMachines.  

 You mentioned having recently bought the X850 and you wouldn't think a new card would have problems but...? You could try lowering the aperature to 64mb. That setting is often used when troubleshooting on the older boards. Since the bulk of the problems being seen now are while gaming you also have to look at software problems like drivers clashing. But if the cpu is not the hardware wearing out on you that brings us back to the board. The bios version you have on is also software programmed onto the eprom. You should see if Asorck has a winflash utility and go for the last update. http://www.asrock.com/support/Download.asp


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## Kornowski

It says on the site that they don't recomend updating the BIOS when the machine is running.

Thanks, but it would probably be cheaper to buy one here in the UK 

Well, recently, like a year ago.

I'll see if it restarts any more, it hasn't done it today so I'll see how it goes.
I think I may already have the latest BIOS, I'll check tomorrow (the computer beeps when booted, it'll wake the family  )


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## PC eye

If you already grabbed the "latest" seen at the support site you won't see any newer ones for the Socket A model board. But you may want to grab a copy of it in case the current programming starts to lose integrity for a backup. Try not to wake up everyone "too early" or ...  I'm in deep trouble!


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## Kornowski

It says that have I have BIOS version 2.50, it isn't even mentioned on the web-site.

What are the chances of it being the video card? and it can't be the RAM because that passed memtest.

Could it be a failing HDD?


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## PC eye

If the hard drive was going you would usually hear at least some clicking sound at some point during these crashes. But a bad controller card inside the drive casing would see more problems then the 3rd day crash during a game. The AGP card there is a possibility while the software element is far more likely at this point since you could be running into some incompatibilty problems or software clashes of some type.


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## Kornowski

I could try another, fresh install of XP and see what thay does.


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## PC eye

First of all you have to go over the amount of things that load along with Windows and the software environment in general. When gaming make sure to disable any antivirus and firewalls to keep those from causing problems. Different things running at the same in the background that are not being used can be disabled from auto loading. That will free up memory and other resources for gaming there. A clean install of Windows without knowing the actual cause? That could see success or just be a waste of time.


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## Kornowski

Yeah, You're right, it could be a waste of time, well, if it does it a few more times, then I'll give it a go.


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## Kornowski

It happened again, just then.

Again with the empty BSOD.

It's a 1000008e error apparently.

I'm going to try taking out one of the RAM sticks and seeing if it is the RAM again, although it already passed memtest.

Does anybody know what it could be?


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## Kornowski

Would posting some minidumps help anybody?

If so, how do I go around doing that?


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## PC eye

You would have to highlight to copy and paste the information seen in notepad and save as a file until ready to post that here. But you besides updating video and sound drivers along with seeing if there is a newer biod update to see your hardwares updated enirely since incompatibility problems are the most likely explaination here you will want to review this MS info on memory since you may have something to look at there.

*SYMPTOMS*

loadTOCNode(1, 'symptoms');When you install Microsoft Windows XP, you may receive a Stop Error message that is similar to one of the following while the Setup program is running: STOP 0x0000008e 
STOP 0x00000050 PAGE_FAULT_IN_NON_PAGED_AREA 
Additionally, if you troubleshoot by removing all unnecessary hardware devices that are installed on the computer, and then you run the Setup program, you may receive an error message that is similar to the following: Setup cannot copy the file Setupdd.sys. 


Back to the top

*CAUSE*

loadTOCNode(1, 'cause');This behavior may occur if one of the following conditions is true: •One or more of the random access memory (RAM) modules that are installed on your computer are faulty.•The RAM configuration is incompatible with Windows XP.

Back to the top

The recommended solution seen for this at http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;Q315335 is as seen here.

*RESOLUTION*

loadTOCNode(1, 'resolution');To troubleshoot this behavior, follow these steps: 1.Remove some of the memory modules that are installed on the computer. Leave at least the RAM that is required for the computer to start and run Windows XP.

The recommended RAM to run Windows XP is 128 megabytes (MB). The minimum is 64 MB, and the maximum is 4 gigabytes. 

For example, if two 256-MB memory modules are installed on your computer, remove one of the memory modules.2.Restart your computer, and then run the Setup program: a. Insert the Windows XP Setup CD-ROM in the CD-ROM drive, start the computer, and then click *OK* to select the first option screen to install a copy of Windows XP. b. Click *Accept*, and then follow the instructions on the screen to complete the Windows XP installation.3.If you again receive the error message that is mentioned in the "Symptoms" section, go to step 4.4.Remove a different memory module, or install the RAM in a different memory slot.5.Restart your computer, and then rerun Setup.

You may have to restart your computer several times to identify the specific memory modules that are not working correctly.

Back to the top

The error you are seeing there is one more thing to look at and most likely one more step to the solution.


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## Kornowski

I'll update the BIOS later and I'll try putting the RAM in single channel instead of dual.


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## PC eye

If the bios programming was seeing a need due to information loss swapping from dual to single channel mode would be a waste of time. You want to keep things the way they are now in order to find just where or what the problems are. The fresh update of the bios especially if newer may fix some problem you wouldn't think of or simply fill in the gaps?


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