# Is 2.16 GhZ slow these days?



## farmerjohn1324

That's my processor speed. 

Intel Pentium N3540.


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## johnb35

It's one of their low end quad core cpu's, almost like a Celeron cpu.  I just find out that people don't do their homework when buying pc's and laptops.   Generally a Good quad core cpu would be around the 3 ghz mark.


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## farmerjohn1324

johnb35 said:


> It's one of their low end quad core cpu's, almost like a Celeron cpu.  I just find out that people don't do their homework when buying pc's and laptops.   Generally a Good quad core cpu would be around the 3 ghz mark.



What if I wanted to be able to run all this simultaneously...

Browser with multiple tabs (some of them streaming video), Google Earth, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Word, and whatever background programs always run with a computer.

What should my target processor speed be?

And what modem speed for that matter?


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## johnb35

My worry would be how much memory the pc has installed.  If you are the only one streaming video then I would think 25mbps would be fine.  An I5 or even an I3 would perform better then the pentium.  Stop any unnecessary background processes you can from booting up. An SSD would definitely help with speed of the laptop in your case.


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## Intel_man

Something like an i3 8100 is pretty good for that sort of task. Partner it with 16gb of ram and you should be good enough. 

25mbps is a pretty good target for streaming video, however if you have multiple users streaming videos, you might want to consider getting something faster than 25mbps.


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## farmerjohn1324

Intel_man said:


> Something like an i3 8100 is pretty good for that sort of task. Partner it with 16gb of ram and you should be good enough.
> 
> 25mbps is a pretty good target for streaming video, however if you have multiple users streaming videos, you might want to consider getting something faster than 25mbps.



I wouldn't have multiple users. I'm the only one on the network. But I might be streaming multiple videos at once from different tabs. Still 25 mbps?


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## farmerjohn1324

johnb35 said:


> An I5 or even an I3 would perform better then the pentium.



Is an i7 better than both of those? And is a Xeon better than an i7?


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## Shlouski

I hope this helps give you an idea on internet speed, if I'm the only one using the internet I can stream 1080p and 1440p no problem, but I can't quite do 2160p 4k and the video needs to buffer occasionally:


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## johnb35

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Is an i7 better than both of those? And is a Xeon better than an i7?



Yes, an I7 is better.  Xeon has it uses, but more so for servers.


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## Twiki

Your CPU is a mobile? Are you looking to get a desktop? The CPUs the guys are quoting are desktop CPUs.

For desktop look at the AMD Ryzen CPUs. Darn good performance at better prices. I'm an Intel fan but my budget suggested that I get a Ryzen 3 2200G to replace my i5-3570.

Out performed my i5 at half price ($89 vs $180)


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## johnb35

Twiki said:


> Your CPU is a mobile?


The N3540 is a laptop cpu.


Twiki said:


> The CPUs the guys are quoting are desktop CPUs.


You can get I3, I5, and I7 cpu's for laptops, they are very common. Do some research.  


Twiki said:


> ut performed my i5 at half price ($89 vs $180)


The I3 8100 is better then the 2200G


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## Twiki

Passmarks:

i3-8100 = 7532

i5-3570 = 7097

r3-2200g = 7339

Not a whole lot faster but yes, Intel is a better CPU. For the budget, hard to beat Ryzen.


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## johnb35

The 3570 is over 6 years old so yeah, the 2200g is newer tech so it will be better. The I5 8400 has a passmark of 11721. So that is a lot better then the 2200G.  Newer tech means better and faster.


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## Twiki

No kidding Sherlock.


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## farmerjohn1324

What's the fastest i7 off the shelf?

I don't do any gaming so I don't need it for that.


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## Shlouski

farmerjohn1324 said:


> What's the fastest i7 off the shelf?
> 
> I don't do any gaming so I don't need it for that.



Most likely the i7 8700k or 8086k


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## farmerjohn1324

Shlouski said:


> Most likely the i7 8700k or 8086k



Do any laptops come with the 8086k built in, or do I have to buy it separate and have it installed?


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## farmerjohn1324

Shlouski said:


> Most likely the i7 8700k or 8086k



Okay, I've found some. But they're described as "Gaming Computers." I don't need this. Is 8086k still the fastest that I want even if I don't play games on it?

Can I save money by installing on an existing machine? Even if I have to buy that machine? Because the ones listed with the 8086k in it are all over $3,000.

What are the minimum specs I need (motherboard, etc.) to run this processor at it's full potential?


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## Shlouski

Are we still talking about laptops here?

I forgot about the i7 6950x, its probably the fastest I7 as its a 10 core 20 thread cpu.

Here is a list of laptop cpu's and how they compare performance wise: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobil...e=1&tdp=1&mhz=1&turbo_mhz=1&cores=1&threads=1

This should help you choose the fastest laptop for your budget. Remember cooling can play a huge part in how well a laptop cpu performs, many suffer from a lot of thermal throttling that can significantly reduce performance.


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## farmerjohn1324

Shlouski said:


> Are we still talking about laptops here?
> 
> I forgot about the i7 6950x, its probably the fastest I7 as its a 10 core 20 thread cpu.
> 
> Here is a list of laptop cpu's and how they compare performance wise: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobil...e=1&tdp=1&mhz=1&turbo_mhz=1&cores=1&threads=1
> 
> This should help you choose the fastest laptop for your budget. Remember cooling can play a huge part in how well a laptop cpu performs, many suffer from a lot of thermal throttling that can significantly reduce performance.



It seems like an i7 is the way to go.


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## Intel_man

@farmerjohn1324, you really don't need an i7 based on the tasks you say you plan on doing with your computer.


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## Cisco001

What have you got at the moment? laptop or desktop?
What is the model number or spec?
What is your budget for new or upgrade PC?


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## _Kyle_

Seeing that an Intel Pentium N350 was serving him fine for his tasks I would really only suggest getting an i3-8100, it seems like a i7 is just a waste of money at this point.


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## farmerjohn1324

Intel_man said:


> @farmerjohn1324, you really don't need an i7 based on the tasks you say you plan on doing with your computer.



I'm gonna get one anyway. You never know what the future will hold. I need something much faster than this current one.


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## farmerjohn1324

Cisco001 said:


> What have you got at the moment? laptop or desktop?
> What is the model number or spec?
> What is your budget for new or upgrade PC?



HP Laptop. HP 15-f272wm.

I wouldn't want to spend more than $700.


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## Intel_man

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I'm gonna get one anyway. You never know what the future will hold. I need something much faster than this current one.


Err... unless you're planning on video production, gaming with settings cranked to the max for ludicrous frame rates, high thread count processes, you don't need an i7. Nothing you've listed that you currently do warrants an i7. Hell, an i5-8400 is overkill for what you do. 

Are you looking at a laptop? Or are you considering getting a desktop?


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## farmerjohn1324

Intel_man said:


> Err... unless you're planning on video production, gaming with settings cranked to the max for ludicrous frame rates, high thread count processes, you don't need an i7. Nothing you've listed that you currently do warrants an i7. Hell, an i5-8400 is overkill for what you do.
> 
> Are you looking at a laptop? Or are you considering getting a desktop?



Laptop


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## Laquer Head

Definitely don't need an i7 for those basic tasks you listed, and if your getting a laptop with an i7 for under $700... I'd question what they skimped out on. Find something with a solid i5, 16GB ram, and a solid state drive... thats all you need!

Never buy a laptop with the mindset of 'pay more now to futureproof'. These days, there is no such thing - laptops are the biggest waste of money going.


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## Jiniix

Remember that most laptop i7's are dual cores


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## Intel_man

Jiniix said:


> Remember that most laptop i7's are dual cores


That's old news. The current 8th Gen i7 mobile chips are all quads with hyperthreading with the exception of a couple that are hexacores.


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## Darren

Intel_man said:


> That's old news. The current 8th Gen i7 mobile chips are all quads with hyperthreading with the exception of a couple that are hexacores.





Jiniix said:


> Remember that most laptop i7's are dual cores


7th gen was 4c/8t too.
and 6th.
https://ark.intel.com/products/97185/Intel-Core-i7-7700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz
https://ark.intel.com/products/88967/Intel-Core-i7-6700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz

Hell I keep checking older and older variants and even most of the 4th gen was 4c/8t.

https://ark.intel.com/products/series/75023/4th-Generation-Intel-Core-i7-Processors

Edit: And even 2nd and 3rd. I've determined @Jiniix you're mostly wrong. 

https://ark.intel.com/products/series/79666/Legacy-Intel-Core-Processors


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## Laquer Head

Darren said:


> 7th gen was 4c/8t too.
> and 6th.
> https://ark.intel.com/products/97185/Intel-Core-i7-7700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz
> https://ark.intel.com/products/88967/Intel-Core-i7-6700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz
> 
> Hell I keep checking older and older variants and even most of the 4th gen was 4c/8t.
> 
> https://ark.intel.com/products/series/75023/4th-Generation-Intel-Core-i7-Processors
> 
> Edit: And even 2nd and 3rd. I've determined @Jiniix you're mostly wrong.
> 
> https://ark.intel.com/products/series/79666/Legacy-Intel-Core-Processors



After evaluating the situation, I've decided to rescind the 'Like' I gave to @Jiniix earlier.

*leaves*


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## johnb35

Although the I7-7550u along with some others are only dual cores.  Which you can still get so you can't say all I7's are quad cores.


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## Darren

johnb35 said:


> Although the I7-7550u along with some others are only dual cores.  Which you can still get so you can't say all I7's are quad cores.


Yeah there's a few still but all in all that claim wasn't terribly accurate. 

OFF WITH HIS HEAD


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## Intel_man

@Darren, there are a few 7th Gen low power i7's that are dual cores.


Edit: deran ninja posted me.


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## Jiniix

Intel_man said:


> That's old news. The current 8th Gen i7 mobile chips are all quads with hyperthreading with the exception of a couple that are hexacores.


I went and checked the 8th gen, and yeah, the vast majority is 4c/8t now, with a few 2c/4t and 6c/12t models in the mix.



Darren said:


> 7th gen was 4c/8t too.
> and 6th.
> https://ark.intel.com/products/97185/Intel-Core-i7-7700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz
> https://ark.intel.com/products/88967/Intel-Core-i7-6700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz
> 
> Hell I keep checking older and older variants and even most of the 4th gen was 4c/8t.
> 
> https://ark.intel.com/products/series/75023/4th-Generation-Intel-Core-i7-Processors
> 
> Edit: And even 2nd and 3rd. I've determined @Jiniix you're mostly wrong.
> 
> https://ark.intel.com/products/series/79666/Legacy-Intel-Core-Processors


By far, by miles, the most popular i7 of the 7th gen was the i7-7500U, which was used in just about every sub-$1000 laptop, and it's a dual core. Sure they had higher end skus, but those were for the laptops that 1% of people buy.



johnb35 said:


> Although the I7-7550u along with some others are only dual cores.  Which you can still get so you can't say all I7's are quad cores.


I said majority, which I rescind only for the 8th gen


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## Cisco001

farmerjohn1324 said:


> HP Laptop. HP 15-f272wm.
> 
> I wouldn't want to spend more than $700.



If you want to upgrade your existing laptop, you can probably replace the HDD with 240GB SSD.

If you are looking for new laptop, you can probably get something with i5-8250u with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD

Here are some example
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/acer-1...-drive-obsidian-black/6178420.p?skuId=6178420

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1TS-000X-00SY9&ignorebbr=1

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834269979&ignorebbr=1


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## Intel_man

Jiniix said:


> went and checked the 8th gen, and yeah, the vast majority is 4c/8t now, with a few 2c/4t and 6c/12t models in the mix.


All 8th Gen i7 chips are quads and hexa cores. There are no duals under the i7-8xxx naming scheme. Not even the U series.


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## Jiniix

Intel_man said:


> All 8th Gen i7 chips are quads and hexa cores. There are no duals under the i7-8xxx naming scheme. Not even the U series.


i7-8500Y, 2 cores, 4 threads, 1.5GHz-4.2GHz boost begs to differ


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## Laquer Head

Jiniix said:


> i7-8500Y, 2 cores, 4 threads, 1.5GHz-4.2GHz boost begs to differ



Not sure that really counts though, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those 'Y' chips integrated and made for use in laptops/tablets mainly? Hence not a drop in chip / soldered on?


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## Jiniix

Laquer Head said:


> Not sure that really counts though, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those 'Y' chips integrated and made for use in laptops/tablets mainly? Hence not a drop in chip / soldered on?


It's definitely designed for mobile (including laptops, it's full x86) devices, but maybe this wasn't put across, I've exclusively talked about mobile processor so far.
It will be the high end processor for the new Macbook, for example, with lower clocked i5/m3 options.


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## Darren

Jiniix said:


> It's definitely designed for mobile (including laptops, it's full x86) devices, but maybe this wasn't put across, I've exclusively talked about mobile processor so far.
> *It will be the high end processor for the new Macbook*, for example, with lower clocked i5/m3 options.



Now that's just sad. A 5 watt dual core chip for the "high end" on a Macbook. Yeesh. Hell it doesn't even run DDR4, but DDR3L despite having just come out.


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## Jiniix

Darren said:


> Now that's just sad. A 5 watt dual core chip for the "high end" on a Macbook. Yeesh. Hell it doesn't even run DDR4, but DDR3L despite having just come out.


Definitely. But remember that TDP is based on the lowest clock, which is 1.5GHz. The M3-8100Y has a 5W TDP as well, but it's running 1.1GHz.
Intels TDPs are basically worthless (to me at least):
i7-7800X, 6C 12T - 140W TDP
i9-7920X, 12C 24T - 140W TDP
It's based on specific workloads only at base clock frequency etc.


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## Darren

Jiniix said:


> Definitely. But remember that TDP is based on the lowest clock, which is 1.5GHz. The M3-8100Y has a 5W TDP as well, but it's running 1.1GHz.
> Intels TDPs are basically worthless (to me at least):
> i7-7800X, 6C 12T - 140W TDP
> i9-7920X, 12C 24T - 140W TDP
> It's based on specific workloads only at base clock frequency etc.


I actually did not know that. Interesting.


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## Intel_man

Jiniix said:


> i7-8500Y, 2 cores, 4 threads, 1.5GHz-4.2GHz boost begs to differ


That's not on Intel's ark page.


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## Jiniix

Intel_man said:


> That's not on Intel's ark page.


Intel announced them early july, so it's very new, only confirmed for Macbook and a Dell XPS to my knowledge.


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## Intel_man

Darren said:


> Now that's just sad. A 5 watt dual core chip for the "high end" on a Macbook. Yeesh. Hell it doesn't even run DDR4, but DDR3L despite having just come out.





Jiniix said:


> Definitely. But remember that TDP is based on the lowest clock, which is 1.5GHz. The M3-8100Y has a 5W TDP as well, but it's running 1.1GHz.
> Intels TDPs are basically worthless (to me at least):
> i7-7800X, 6C 12T - 140W TDP
> i9-7920X, 12C 24T - 140W TDP
> It's based on specific workloads only at base clock frequency etc.


Keep in mind the intended purpose of the TDP/ACP values are more to describe the target you should achieve when designing a thermal solution for the given processor and NOT the maximum power consumption of the chip. 

Taken from Intel's white paper on TDP vs ACP back in 2011. 


> Thermal Design Power (TDP) should be used for processor thermal solution design targets


source: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/doc/white-paper/resources-xeon-measuring-processor-power-paper.pdf

That white paper's a good read for those interested in learning about TDP/ACP and how they are different from one another. It compares server processors that is current at the time of publication, but the general idea/concept of TDP/ACP still applies today.


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## Jiniix

I like how Intel states in 2011: 
*What is AMD’s ACP?*
_According to AMD documentation, ACP (Average CPU Power) is the average (Geometric Mean) power a processor was measured to dissipate while running a collection of 5 different benchmarks (Transaction Processing Performance Council (TPC Benchmark*-C), SPECcpu*2006, SPECjbb*2005,and STREAM.)_

*Why doesn’t Intel provide an ACP value for their processors?*
_Intel sees no value adding another specification to our processors. As noted above, ACP is not useful for system or processor thermal engineers and end users can get more accurate power consumption values by simply measuring the actual power of their server while running their specific application. In addition, AMD does not specify exactly where in their silicon process distribution they measure ACP, so it would be impossible for Intel to create an identical ACP specification.
_
And then in 2013 introduces SDP, which is:
*Scenario design power*
Intel's description of _Scenario Design Power (SDP)_: "SDP is an additional thermal reference point meant to represent thermally relevant device usage in real-world environmental scenarios. It balances performance and power requirements across system workloads to represent real-world power usage."


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## Darren

I know what TDP is, just using it as a rough comparison. 5 watt TDP is low for a supposedly high performance chip, that's all I'm saying.


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## farmerjohn1324

Cisco001 said:


> If you want to upgrade your existing laptop, you can probably replace the HDD with 240GB SSD.
> 
> If you are looking for new laptop, you can probably get something with i5-8250u with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD
> 
> Here are some example
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/acer-1...-drive-obsidian-black/6178420.p?skuId=6178420
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1TS-000X-00SY9&ignorebbr=1
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834269979&ignorebbr=1



Why would I want to replace a 2.16 gHz computer with a 1.60 gHz? And I would rather have 16GB of RAM.


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## Jiniix

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Why would I want to replace a 2.16 gHz computer with a 1.60 gHz? And I would rather have 16GB of RAM.


Well first of all those aren't 1.6GHz laptops, they're 3.4GHz. With newer CPUs they have tiered performance levels, 1.6GHz being to lowest they'll go to. These three laptops run at 3.4GHz when thermals allow it and applications are doing something. Your current CPU (Pentium N3540) doesn't always run at 2.16GHz, it has a burst frequency of 2.66GHz with the same principle.
Second, GHz aren't equal. A CPU from 2011 with 4GHz will perform worse than a CPU from 2018 at 4GHz, assuming the same number of cores etc.


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## beers

farmerjohn1324 said:


> You never know what the future will hold


Bankruptcy, with that mindset


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## farmerjohn1324

Jiniix said:


> Well first of all those aren't 1.6GHz laptops, they're 3.4GHz. With newer CPUs they have tiered performance levels, 1.6GHz being to lowest they'll go to. These three laptops run at 3.4GHz when thermals allow it and applications are doing something. Your current CPU (Pentium N3540) doesn't always run at 2.16GHz, it has a burst frequency of 2.66GHz with the same principle.
> Second, GHz aren't equal. A CPU from 2011 with 4GHz will perform worse than a CPU from 2018 at 4GHz, assuming the same number of cores etc.



In that case, my 2.66 gHz isn't good enough. Unless the problem is lack of RAM.

I just want something that I don't have to worry about.

Next time it's running slow, I'll see which is maxed out... Processor or RAM.


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## Jiniix

I would equate your current CPU to the most popular quad core from 2008, the Q6600. It's pretty close in performance, however, your CPU uses like 80% less power.
But any modern CPU would run laps around it in heavy workloads.


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## beers

I'd just SSD and increase RAM of your existing laptop.

I use a $20 laptop that has an old i5 560m with SSD and it does everything you listed. 

I can guarantee the bulk of your time spent waiting is on that slow laptop drive.


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## Jiniix

beers said:


> I can guarantee the bulk of your time spent waiting is on that slow laptop drive.


SSDs are absolutely vital these days, and will breathe life back in to almost any old machine. 
If no SSD, get SSD.


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## farmerjohn1324

beers said:


> I'd just SSD and increase RAM of your existing laptop.
> 
> I use a $20 laptop that has an old i5 560m with SSD and it does everything you listed.
> 
> I can guarantee the bulk of your time spent waiting is on that slow laptop drive.



I also only have 4GB of RAM.

How do I know what type of RAM and SSD will be compatible with this device?


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## _Kyle_

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I also only have 4GB of RAM.
> 
> How do I know what type of RAM and SSD will be compatible with this device?


Any SATA SSD should be fine. RAM however might be iffy, since you might have a 32bit version of windows, which only supports 4GB max.


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## farmerjohn1324

Deerling7 said:


> Any SATA SSD should be fine. RAM however might be iffy, since you might have a 32bit version of windows, which only supports 4GB max.



I have a 64-bit operating system with DDR3 RAM. How do I tell how much RAM it can hold max?

Also, my DVD drive is broken. Would it be cheaper to replace that internally, or to get one that plugs into the USB?


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## farmerjohn1324

Deerling7 said:


> Any SATA SSD should be fine. RAM however might be iffy, since you might have a 32bit version of windows, which only supports 4GB max.



If I bought a SSD to replace my current Hard Drive, that would involve having to reinstall Windows, correct? Because I don't have the disc. I only have what came preloaded on the laptop.


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## Intel_man

farmerjohn1324 said:


> How do I tell how much RAM it can hold max?


Are you referring to the computer that has the N3540 processor you mentioned in this thread? 


farmerjohn1324 said:


> If I bought a SSD to replace my current Hard Drive, that would involve having to reinstall Windows, correct? Because I don't have the disc. I only have what came preloaded on the laptop.


You can clone the drive. That won't require you to reinstall Windows.


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## _Kyle_

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I have a 64-bit operating system with DDR3 RAM. How do I tell how much RAM it can hold max?
> 
> Also, my DVD drive is broken. Would it be cheaper to replace that internally, or to get one that plugs into the USB?


Depends on the version, but I can tell you it is at least 8GB. You would have to reinstall a Windows too if you got the SSD, or you could just clone it like Intel_man said.


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## farmerjohn1324

Intel_man said:


> Are you referring to the computer that has the N3540 processor you mentioned in this thread?
> 
> You can clone the drive. That won't require you to reinstall Windows.



Yes, the N3540.


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## farmerjohn1324

Deerling7 said:


> Depends on the version, but I can tell you it is at least 8GB. You would have to reinstall a Windows too if you got the SSD, or you could just clone it like Intel_man said.



I will have to look inside the computer to see the RAM slots.


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