# Liquid Cooling 101 - Needs Updating



## Geoff

*Why Liquid? *

 Multiple components within a computer generate excessive amounts of thermal energy, which must be removed to prevent damage. Items such as processor, video card's GPU/RAM, motherboard's chipset, memory, or hard drive are all generally dependent on air cooling mechanisms to remove this heat. These components are attached to a metal object (heatsink) with high thermal affinity and high surface area which conducts the heat away from the source and dissipates it into the air, often with the aid of a fan (active cooling) but occasionally fanless (passive cooling). An common example is that of the cpu, which is illustrated below. Note that the use of a fan is normally essential for a high thermal output device such as a cpu.







 While altering a heat sink's size and makeup can improve the effectiveness, it is still limited because air absorbs and transfers heat very slowly. To help counteract this, the fan can be run at a higher speed, but most people know what that means.. high performance usually comes with high noise. As systems continue to be upgraded, they require larger heatsink, and faster fans to help dissipate the increase in TDP (Thermal Design Power).


 Many people ask the question "why liquid?". Now liquid cooling isn't for everyone, as it poses many risks, however as processors and video cards advance, they require more power to run, and more power means more heat. Heatsinks and fans have been able to compensate for the increase in heat, with the introduction of more efficient heatsink designs and more powerful fans. However liquid cooling has a significant advantage over traditional air cooling - being that it can transfer heat away from the component much more quickly and efficiently. For the average to moderate computer user, air cooling will suffice their needs, however when you get into the high-end gamers and computer guru's who have all the latest and greatest technology, the need for better cooling becomes realized very quickly. In addition to being a high-end gamer, many people use liquid cooling to extend the limits of their components - by overclocking.

 I wont get into the details of overclocking, but if you wish to learn more,  head over to OC101.  As you overclock and start increasing the voltages, you cause the component to use up more power, which again means more heat.  Overclocking on air cooling poses a severe bottleneck once you get to a certain point, whereas liquid cooling will allow you to keep the temperatures down, allowing you to overclock further.  Although even water cooling becomes an issue as you reach a certain point, and thats where thermoelectric coolers and phase-change cooling come into play.  

 Here we have one of the most common types of liquid cooling setups, which cools both the processor and video card:






  • Now before I get started on how exactly water cooling works, first you should know some of the basics, such as why we use certain liquids and not others, and then some scientific facts.



*Types of liquid:*

You may be asking yourself, "Why do they use water?".  The answer is because when it comes to transferring heat, water is very efficient when compared to other liquids.  Now the reason for water instead of mercury is simple - water is much easier and cheaper to obtain, and much safer to deal with.

Although using distilled water is very cheap and effective, it's not recommended to use only 100% distilled water.  The reason being that distilled water wants to maintain an equilibrium, and will take them from any source - such as the water blocks.  So in other words, using 100% distilled water will eventually "attack" metallic sources, especially aluminum.  Because of this many prefer specialized coolants for their system, which are made primarily out of water, but contain additives to help keep the system clean, corrosion free, and some add colors for a higher appeal.

Water (after mercury) conducts heat the fastest.  It's thermal conductivity is about 30 times greater than that of air.  In addition, water can hold a lot more heat.  Did you know that it takes over 4 times as much heat to raise the temperature of water as it does air?  

Because of these basic physical attributes, liquid cooling has considerable advantages of air cooling.



 *Thermal Conductivity*

Thermal Conductivity is the amount of heat a particular substance can carry through it in unit time. No matter how flawless a surface may appear, it is highly irregular on a microscopic level.  In fact, a CPU and heat sink may only touch at 0.01% of their total surface areas. Because the rest of the surfaces are separated by air, many high-heat sources would fail without a thermal compound/paste.











 The best thermal interface compounds contain elements with high thermal conductivity.  These are generally more expensive, and so most stock heat sinks use cheaper graphite (gray/black pads) or silicon/zinc oxide (white paste) compounds.

One of the best thermal compounds available for a decent price, is Arctic Silver 5.  Silver is the second best conductor of heat (behind diamond), because of this, Arctic Silver 5 is rated one of the best thermal compounds (in it's class), available.

 Below is a table comparing the thermal conductivity of a variety of solids, liquids, and gases.  The higher the number, the more heat it can obtain and transfer.​  







*Heat Capacity*

Heat Capacity is the amount of heat a particular substance can hold. 

The rate depicts how many kilojoules of energy are required to change the temperature of one kilogram of said substance by one Kelvin.





​*What do all of these numbers* *mean?*

The above thermal conductivity shows why copper is the preferred cold plate material for cooling systems.  It is extremely close to silver in performance, but only 1/6 the cost.  Like most metals however, copper doesn't hold heat for very long, it needs to be absorbed by something else such as water or air.

The specific heat capacities show water to be the best liquid for holding heat.  Practically, it is also the best for transferring it.

This would indicate the ideal configuration is to use copper to transfer heat from the processor (as well as other heat-generating parts), and to use water to absorb and move away the heat. Although there are many other factors involved, here you have the basic understanding of a liquid cooling system.



_*Liquid Cooling Design*_

At first glance, liquid cooling looks simple.  Liquid is pumped through a cooler, it absorbs heat, and it's cooled back down with a radiator.  But because you're working with liquid, the design principles become more complicated.

Most users are turned off by the idea of liquid cooling because they are afraid it will leak, and thereby destroy their expensive computer.  Although this is one of the biggest risks, it's not all that common.  Most professional systems have been tested for leaks before they are produced and shipped to customers, so as long as you follow the directions and make sure all the hoses are clamped down, you should be all set.

However, even though liquid cooling kits shouldn't leak, you should always do a test run, by connecting everything outside of your computer, and let it run for a while to ensure that nothing is malfunctioning and/or leaking.

*Pump Reliability*:
The pump is a liquid cooling system's "heart".  If the pump fails, its like the heart failing.  This doesn't mean it is necessary for a liquid cooling system to use a $200 pump, although some pumps will work that are not designed for PC water cooling, it is recommended that you use one specially designed for water cooling.
 






*Corrosion:*​There are multiple types of chemical reactions that can be present in a cooling system that uses liquid.  The most common is galvanic corrosion, caused by different metals in an electrolyte (in most cases, water). These varying electrode potentials can create a "battery" effect, damaging the metal.

The worst situation in which corrosion might occur is by using regular tap water in a liquid cooling system.  Tap water contains numerous trace elements that can accelerate galvanic corrosion. This is the reason distilled water should be used (not to be confused with drinking water).

In addition to corrosion, tap water poses a significant risk in the formation of algae, especially if the system is turned off for a significant amount of time.  When algae forms, it will cause certain parts to become clogged, and thereby causing the system to potentially become severely restricted.

*NOTE:* Common cooling additives, such as antifreeze and Water Wetter, in addition to lowering the heat conduction of water, can degrade some polymers and are not recommended.

*Radiators*
By far, most computer liquid cooling systems use a "tube and fin" style radiator, typically a copper tube which snakes among multiple aluminum or copper fins.  The tube and fin is popular for a good reason: it is cheap and easy to produce.  Unfortunately, the benefits end there.

Since copper and aluminum can not be fused together, and thin strips of copper can not be welded without melting, the actual liquid tube simply sits between its fins. These poor junctions drastically reduce heat conduction. 

As a base metal, copper can begin with a higher performance than aluminum in a radiator. Tube and fin radiators are generally made of copper because it can be easily shaped.  But after prolonged use (beyond 3-6 months), heated water stains copper, resulting in a darkened internal coating which can lower heat transfer to below that of aluminum.

The vast majority of automobiles no longer use copper tube-and-fin radiators due to these problems.  The durability of aluminum is what makes it a preferred material in modern day heat exchangers.  Between parallel liquid channels is a web foil (Louver fin) which provides exceptionally high heat dissipation.  The entire assembly is tightly bound together through a process called brazing.  Louver Fin heat exchangers provide the highest dissipation rate among radiator designs.  Although more expensive to produce, the performance advantages are significant.







*The Water Block:*
Although the water block is a critical component in every system, it is not solely responsible for performance.  Efficiency is relative to the entirecollection of components in a liquid cooling system, so altering something as little as air flow over the radiator can actually affect how well a CPU Liquid Cooler operates.




*Materials**:*
Copper is the most practical metal to use in a liquid cooler cold plate.  It provides a very high degree of thermal conductivity and is abundant at reasonable cost. 

Unlike a fan and heat sink, a liquid cooler does not need to be completely made of metal.  Only the areas between the heat source (such as the CPU) and liquid pass significant amounts of heat.  A liquid block made completely of metal is not only excessive, but will generally be heavier and more expensive.

*Size & Efficiency:*
The internal design of a CPU Cooler is everything.  Poorly-designed liquid coolers will require a higher flow rate to maintain system efficiency.  Like air-cooled heat sinks, they will also tend to be larger and heavier, which can place physical stress on the processor and motherboard.



_*What Kit is Right for You?*_
 
There are several types of liquid cooling setups out there to choose from, such as integrated, internal, and external liquid cooling kits.

Many factors determine how well a certain liquid cooling kit will perform, ranging from the type of water block they use, down to the size piping.  Manufacturers make budget kits available for under $100, that are only designed to cool one component (generally the CPU).  However you should be careful when picking out a budget liquid cooling kit, because there are a few that are known to have issues such as leaks or poor pump reliability.

*Integrated Kits:
*Integrated kits are built into the computer case itself, which allows for easier setup and increased space inside the PC.  The disadvantages would be that there aren't as many choices to choose from, and the ones that are available can be pricey - most range from around $250 up to $700 or more.  Integrated kits would be ideal for users who do not want to have to gamble on kits, and then find out that the one they bought does not fit their case, and are also ideal for those who want a more professional appearance, without having components scattered among the case.

The following two links are both 1KW units from Koolance.
http://www.xoxide.com/koolance-pc4-1025bk-1kw-case.html
http://www.xoxide.com/koolance-pc4-1036bk-1kw-case.html






*Internal Kits:
*Internal kits are one of the most popular liquid cooling solutions.  It allows you to add liquid cooling to virtually any case, given that there is enough room for the pump, reservoir, radiator, and tubing.  Unlike integrated kits, internal kits can be as cheap as $50 or even less, to several hundred dollars.  These kits are for those who prefer to spend less money and install it into the case themselves, and there are far more internal kits available for purchase.

As far as internal kits go, there are many factors that come into play when deciding on which one to get.  Many people will lean towards the cheap versions just for that reason, they're cheap.  While the lower priced kits will work, they arent designed for high end systems with a high thermal output.  You will notice that many kits display a certain wattage, those dont determine how much power they use, it's how much power they are able to dissipate from the system while keeping the load temp at or below 55C, with an ambient temperature of 25C.  So the higher it's rated, the closer it can become to ambient temp.

An example of a high end internal kit would be the Swiftech H20-220 Apex Ultra.  The 220 uses an APOPGEE Extreme Performance water block, MCW60 VGA water block, and an MCW30 chipset water block.
http://www.xoxide.com/swiftech-h2o-apex-ultra-plus.html

Going down towards the mid ranged kits, the Swiftech H20-120 Premium is similar to the 220, however only includes a water block for the CPU.
http://www.xoxide.com/swiftech-h2o-120-premium.html

CoolIt Systems has designed a liquid cooling system for a CPU.  This may sound like an ordinary system, however unlike most others the CoolIt Freezone uses a thermoelectric CPU water block.  Basically a thermoelectric cooler transfers the heat from one side (near the CPU), to the other (top), using electricity.  Therefor it can transfer heat quicker, and actually get below ambient temp.  However some smaller TEC's aren't very powerful, so if your using a high-end or overclocked processor, most likely you wont see any major differences in the temperature then that of a traditional liquid cooling solution.
http://www.xoxide.com/coolit-systems-tec-water-cooling.html















*Sources:
www.tomshardware.com
www.frozencpu.com
www.koolance.com
www.guru3d.com
www.endpcnoise.com
www.petrastechshop.com
www.xoxide.com
www.wikipedia.org
*


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## Motoxrdude

nice post, i definity understand the fine tuning of water cooling now, thanks!


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## bigsaucybob

very nice, well done.


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## MIK3daG33K

Very nice, i have had both water and air. I had water for about 6 months and it was my first time experimenting with it. Although i enjoyed the expierence i think you can get the same temps with good air cooling for half the price and hastle not to mention the clutter. Therefore i would reccomend air, but very nicely done.


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## ckfordy

very nice.  good job.


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## 4W4K3

Well done, very easy to understand and covered the basics throughly.


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## xtechforum

Looks good, but aqaruim pumps are very reliable  Well if you take out penguin's that is, get a ehiem and it'll last decades.


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## skidude

Way to go dude, nice work


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## Geoff

Thanks for the compliments guys 

I would really like some admin/moderator input on this thread if you wouldnt mind.


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## Cromewell

> get a ehiem and it'll last decades.


Indeed, they are almost completely silent (you can't hear it over the ambient noise) when you run them properly too.


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## bigsaucybob

it looks really good. but i was thinking that there shuld maybe be something about how watevercooling is somewhat of a waste of money if the person doesnt plan on heavy overclocking. i dunno maybe u were just trying to talk about parts of the watercooling, thought i wuld throw it out there.


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## xtechforum

I think it IS a waist of money because i can cost over a hundred dollars when you could just buy the next rated CPU, unless you have the MAX in the first place. so i agree with bigsaucybob


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## atomic

bigsaucybob said:
			
		

> it looks really good. but i was thinking that there shuld maybe be something about how watevercooling is somewhat of a waste of money if the person doesnt plan on heavy overclocking. i dunno maybe u were just trying to talk about parts of the watercooling, thought i wuld throw it out there.



Well fortunatly this is not, IS IT WORTH IT 101.  Im sure it was a guide to liquid cooling, and to advice and teach people about liquid cooling, So if its worth it or not is not a topic here.


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## Chris Chan

Nice work, deserves a sticky.


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## Geoff

What do you think praetor?


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## ReturnToEmpire

hes gonna say something like, calling out admins personally will get your thread ignored. just my guess. lol nice thread though. i like all the science behind it.


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## dragon2309

> hes gonna say something like, calling out admins personally will get your thread ignored.


Lol, thats exactly what i was thinking lol.... and yeh, thsi should so be a sticky, nice work geoff, i can see that probably took you a darn long time to complete.


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## helmie

Yeah, thats a great guide. STICKY!!! NOW!!!


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## ghost

yeah thats a gr8 bit of work there GEOFF, you blatenty deserve to be a MOD NOW


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## Geoff

Praetor will be looking this over very soon (hopefully ).  Thanks for the compliments guys.


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## Cromewell

I'm sure he's already seen it and deciding what to do with it.


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## Geoff

Cromewell said:
			
		

> I'm sure he's already seen it and deciding what to do with it.


Well i PM'ed ian when i first made this, and he said that he sent it to Praetor to look at.  But i e-mailed ian again and he said he hasnt heard back from him, so im sure he'll be doing what he wants with it soon.


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## Beyond

geoff5093 said:
			
		

> Well i PM'ed ian when i first made this, and he said that he sent it to Praetor to look at.  But i e-mailed ian again and he said he hasnt heard back from him, so im sure he'll be doing what he wants with it soon.



good luck .. great guide by the way!


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## Geoff

Only been about 8 months...  I guess Praetor forgot about it


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## Cromewell

Either that or he decided it was was missing something but forgot or didn't have time to respond.


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## apj101

yeah he has a very particular style of what he likes in the 101's and rarely lets something go by without modification. He's prob to busy to make the nessessary minor changes


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## dragon2309

praetor is the humna world equivalent to an elephant, he never forgets.


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## Geoff

apj101 said:


> yeah he has a very particular style of what he likes in the 101's and rarely lets something go by without modification. He's prob to busy to make the nessessary minor changes



I know mine isnt perfect, and there are some modifications that he would like to make, that I probably forgot, and thats completely understandable.

But what is starting to somewhat annoy me, is that other mods here are creating tons of 101's and closing/stickying them by themselves.


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## apj101

> But what is starting to somewhat annoy me, is that other mods here are creating tons of 101's and closing/stickying them.


thats coz they are mods, and it is one of the privilages that come with the title
ceewi1 looks after this section, so ask him to sticky it


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## Impr3ssiv3

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/flowdesigner.jsp


theres a link for a flow design in ones system


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## joeswm8

sticky +1

also needs updating very badly


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## Geoff

joeswm8 said:


> sticky +1
> 
> also needs updating very badly


I never bothered to update it because none of the mods/admins felt it to be sticky worthy.


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## apj101

[-0MEGA-];719671 said:
			
		

> I never bothered to update it because none of the mods/admins felt it to be sticky worthy.


To be honest, i remember this and liked it. Praetor prob never got the chance to review it, or it slipped under his radar. 
I have stuck this thread, and also rehashed out the struture of the stickies in the section and combined Praetors PSU101, into ceewi's Useful PSU guides 
I hope thats ok with you ceewi,
and i hope thats ok with you [-omega-]
Could you keep this sticky upto date now


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## Geoff

Thank you APJ, yes that does make me happy 

I remember asking Praetor a few times a while back about this and he always said he was "looking into it" and "these things take time".

I'm off to work now, but I'll get it updated hopefully tomorrow.


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## apj101

Well, just do your best to make sure that you research all the data, and give a balanced view, full of facts and i cant see any problem with it being stuck.


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## joeswm8

yeah!

now i can spend more time here with this sticky!

just remember all the parts:

rads (PA series, MCR series are top)
pumps (D5 vario, D5-B, DDC3.2 w/Petra's top)
CPU blocks (d-tek fuzion, apogee GTX, apogee GT)
tubing (masterkleer 7/16, tygon 1/2)
barbs (EK high flow, d-tek high-flow)
GPU blocks (EK fullcovers, MCW60, DD fullcovers)

also list the major WCing sites:
petrastechshop.com
frozencpu.com
jab-tech.com

thats a good start, although you probably know all this


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## Geoff

apj101 said:


> Well, just do your best to make sure that you research all the data, and give a balanced view, full of facts and i cant see any problem with it being stuck.


I created this 101 within a day, and after looking back on it I can see I forgot a few things, as well as current kits that are on the market.  I work all day tomorrow so it most likely wont be complete until sometime next week, since I dont want to rush anything.



joeswm8 said:


> yeah!
> 
> now i can spend more time here with this sticky!
> 
> just remember all the parts:
> 
> rads (PA series, MCR series are top)
> pumps (D5 vario, D5-B, DDC3.2 w/Petra's top)
> CPU blocks (d-tek fuzion, apogee GTX, apogee GT)
> tubing (masterkleer 7/16, tygon 1/2)
> barbs (EK high flow, d-tek high-flow)
> GPU blocks (EK fullcovers, MCW60, DD fullcovers)
> 
> also list the major WCing sites:
> petrastechshop.com
> frozencpu.com
> jab-tech.com
> 
> thats a good start, although you probably know all this


As I said above in the revision of this I will all the current kits and individual parts that are out on the web.  

I knoew most of those sites but I havent been to jab-tech before, thanks for the link.


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## joeswm8

jab-tech is good, but pertrastechshop.com OWNS!


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## The_Beast

Don't forget Ek CPU blocks and Ek voltage reg blocks, they are some of the best out there


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## joeswm8

The_Beast said:


> Don't forget Ek CPU blocks and Ek voltage reg blocks, they are some of the best out there



not so much cpu, but Eddy (the guy at EK) is making a cpu block geared towards high performance to compete w/the fuzion, hopefully soon


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## The_Beast

joeswm8 said:


> not so much cpu, but Eddy (the guy at EK) is making a cpu block geared towards high performance to compete w/the fuzion, hopefully soon


 
he does make great looking, high quality blocks


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## Geoff

Alright, I uploaded the changes that I have made so far.  I was going to wait until I was finished before submitting them, but there are some severe storms nearby and I didnt want to risk loosing what I had done.

I'm open to comments on what I have so far as well, but keep in mind that not everything is completed yet.


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## butter

as a future moderator, i wanna improve this article by making a couple of corrections.. 

but b4 i even started, tell me please, is it considered a help or being a wise ***?



> "...water can holds a lot more heat..."


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## Geoff

butter said:


> as a future moderator, i wanna improve this article by making a couple of corrections..
> 
> but b4 i even started, tell me please, is it considered a help or being a wise ***?


haha, thanks for pointing that out, i'll fix it right away.


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## butter

[-0MEGA-];721383 said:
			
		

> haha, thanks for pointing that out, i'll fix it right away.


well, i could find more if u want. i just don't wanna seem a wise guy as i said


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## The_Beast

Looks good but you should name manufactures, DD, swifttech, Ek.....


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## spanky

This post is the first time I've read of TEC cooling and I am now really interested in it as I was looking into water cooling. I'm a bit confused about some of the TEC kits available though. All in all, thanks!


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## Geoff

The_Beast said:


> Looks good but you should name manufactures, DD, swifttech, Ek.....


I may make a list similar to ceewi, noting some of the popular brands and some of the ones known to be of poor quality.



theresthatguy said:


> This post is the first time I've read of TEC cooling and I am now really interested in it as I was looking into water cooling. I'm a bit confused about some of the TEC kits available though. All in all, thanks!


They make heatsink and fan based TEC coolers, and they work pretty well.  Heres one from frozencpu.com

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5...lTec_Thermo_Electric_CPU_Cooler_ULT33186.html


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## INTELCRAZY

butter said:


> as a future moderator, i wanna improve this article by making a couple of corrections..
> 
> but b4 i even started, tell me please, is it considered a help or being a wise ***?



I looked to be a mod when I joined up and then slowly over time I just grown away from it. I saw what kinda crap they had to put up with... Just wait until 1500 posts and then think back.


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## butter

INTELCRAZY said:


> I looked to be a mod when I joined up and then slowly over time I just grown away from it. I saw what kinda crap they had to put up with... Just wait until 1500 posts and then think back.


haha, ok.. i gotcha.. i used to be a mod, back in college days, so i pretty much no what it is.. but yea, ur right - i've gotta wait till at least 1000 posts


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## Geoff

butter said:


> haha, ok.. i gotcha.. i used to be a mod, back in college days, so i pretty much no what it is.. but yea, ur right - i've gotta wait till at least 1000 posts


It's highly unlikely you would be a mod now, since your so new.

But lets just get back on topic please.


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## butter

[-0MEGA-];721464 said:
			
		

> It's highly unlikely you would be a mod now, since your so new.
> 
> But lets just get back on topic please.


ok, back on topic. 

getting rid of CPU and GPU coolers makes a rig colder.. any quieter tho?


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## INTELCRAZY

butter said:


> ok, back on topic.
> 
> getting rid of CPU and GPU coolers makes a rig colder.. any quieter tho?



Vice-versa?


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## The_Beast

theresthatguy said:


> This post is the first time I've read of TEC cooling and I am now really interested in it as I was looking into water cooling. I'm a bit confused about some of the TEC kits available though. All in all, thanks!


 
don't get a TEC, get a phase changer




			
				[-0MEGA-];721464 said:
			
		

> I may make a list similar to ceewi, noting some of the popular brands and some of the ones known to be of poor quality


 
do you want help???




butter said:


> ok, back on topic.
> 
> getting rid of CPU and GPU coolers makes a rig colder.. any quieter tho?


 
that is why alot of people have them, quiet


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## spanky

[-0MEGA-];721420 said:
			
		

> I may make a list similar to ceewi, noting some of the popular brands and some of the ones known to be of poor quality.
> 
> 
> They make heatsink and fan based TEC coolers, and they work pretty well.  Heres one from frozencpu.com
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5...lTec_Thermo_Electric_CPU_Cooler_ULT33186.html



That is the only fan based tec cooler I've found. The rest are liquid kits by Swiftech or CoolIT based on what I've found. This tec stuff fascinates me.


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## butter

> that is why alot of people have them, quiet


..but the rad coolers? in case of h20-220 we r talking about three ones, i believe!!


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## The_Beast

butter said:


> ..but the rad coolers? in case of h20-220 we r talking about three ones, i believe!!


 
they put the fans on a low RPM

the h20-220 only supports 2 fans not 3


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## butter

The_Beast said:


> they put the fans on a low RPM
> 
> the h20-220 only supports 2 fans not 3


 
right right.. makes sense. ok, thanks


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## Geoff

The_Beast said:


> don't get a TEC, get a phase changer


Phase-change cooling is the best way to really cool your processor, but unless you have $800+ and dont mind paying a high electricity bill, then it's probably not for you.  I was actually going to talk a little bit about phase-change cooling as well for a bit.


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## apj101

I re-wrote the opening paragraph just to give a better intro. hope thats ok


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## spanky

[-0MEGA-];721485 said:
			
		

> Phase-change cooling is the best way to really cool your processor, but unless you have $800+ and dont mind paying a high electricity bill, then it's probably not for you.  I was actually going to talk a little bit about phase-change cooling as well for a bit.



Yes, I know about phase changing. I knew about before TEC today. It's not the expense that bothers me, it's that I don't like the idea of that big extra clunky peice of equipment sitting under my computer. An internal tec-liquid seems like the next way to go since I want water cooling anyway.


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## butter

apj101 said:


> I re-wrote the opening paragraph just to give a better intro. hope thats ok


haha, super moderator? that's pretty sick. u have all those dif types of ranks, like mega-editor and ultra-poster? lol

it's all good tho. carreer growth and stuff


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## joeswm8

for external kits look at this website:

http://www.externalpccooling.net/

this guy is great and makes excellent external kits.

also petra's tech kits are the best (ie. the elite kit).

also koolance isnt the best (it really kinda sucks), and post the specific parts because custom cooling is the best solution.


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## spanky

Whats the difference between Swiftech MCW6500-T Thermoelectric Waterblock and Danger Den Maze4-1 TEC other than price?


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## Geoff

apj101 said:


> I re-wrote the opening paragraph just to give a better intro. hope thats ok


Thats fine, I like the way you worded it.



theresthatguy said:


> Yes, I know about phase changing. I knew about before TEC today. It's not the expense that bothers me, it's that I don't like the idea of that big extra clunky peice of equipment sitting under my computer. An internal tec-liquid seems like the next way to go since I want water cooling anyway.


See for me, I could care less about a large piece of equipment next to my desk, but what I wouldnt care for is the idea that it's basically using as much power as a small air conditioner, so the electric bill would be insanely high.  And unless you feel like removing it and using an HSF, it needs to be running whenever the PC is on.



theresthatguy said:


> Whats the difference between Swiftech MCW6500-T Thermoelectric Waterblock and Danger Den Maze4-1 TEC other than price?


The price difference is pretty drastic actually, the MCW6500-T is going for around $160, whereas the Maze4-1 is going for $80.

The biggest difference is that the Swiftech is a CPU block (775 to be exact), whereas the Danger Den is a GPU block and the peletier is only rated at 80W, which is lower then that of the Swiftech's.


----------



## userblah8

I seen a video of a guy making a vegetable oil or some kind of oil, it was pretty weird and i think it would stink eventually.


----------



## butter

userblah8 said:


> I seen a video of a guy making a vegetable oil or some kind of oil, it was pretty weird and i think it would stink eventually.


WHAT?? %)


----------



## userblah8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pb4UumU6ee0


watch that


----------



## Geoff

userblah8 said:


> I seen a video of a guy making a vegetable oil or some kind of oil, it was pretty weird and i think it would stink eventually.



There have been a lot of people who fill a tank with vegetable oil and submerge their computer parts in it.  A member on this forum has done it at well.


----------



## userblah8

i wonder if you have to change it every now and then, cause its gotta get smelly after awhile.


----------



## Geoff

userblah8 said:


> i wonder if you have to change it every now and then, cause its gotta get smelly after awhile.


If your talking about the water/coolant, then yes, most people have to top it off every 6 months or so because some will evaporate, and it's a good idea to change the fluid every year.


----------



## butter

[-0MEGA-];723084 said:
			
		

> If your talking about the water/coolant, then yes, most people have to top it off every 6 months or so because some will evaporate, and it's a good idea to change the fluid every year.


haha, no i think he was talking about submerging into the oil lol.. and it's pretty grosE


----------



## userblah8

i was talking about the oil lol cook some french fries in ur computer while surfing the web!


----------



## butter

userblah8 said:


> i was talking about the oil lol cook some french fries in ur computer while surfing the web!


french fries suck!! what about some fried zukkini or - even better - buffalo wings?


----------



## userblah8

even better!


----------



## apj101

butter said:


> haha, no i think he was talking about submerging into the oil lol.. and it's pretty grosE



Depends on the coolant used, if its vegtable oil, yes you must change it often as it degrades


----------



## raoul_1101

some say water cooling is only good if you OC alot. would it suit a q6600 not oc'ed or should i go for a heatsinc?


----------



## Geoff

raoul_1101 said:


> some say water cooling is only good if you OC alot. would it suit a q6600 not oc'ed or should i go for a heatsinc?


You should have made your own thread, but since you asked here I might as well answer.

Liquid cooling makes the most sense for overclockers because if you keep everything at or close to stock specs, then theres no reason that stock air cooling won't be sufficient.  I would mainly recommend water cooling if you plan to take your components as high as they can go without going to phase change cooling, although the reliability if your computer will go down because there are more risks and maintenance.

For your Q6600 not oc'd, I would go with a more traditional heatsink and fan.  The one that comes with the processor should be more then sufficient.


----------



## Ramodkk

Nice work Geoff! 

I'm now interested into water cooling man, what's a good price/performance kit for CPU only under $100 US?

Thanks!


----------



## taylormsj

no watercooling kit will be better than a high end air cooler, unless you look at the swiftech kits, i think they are more than 100$ tho.

It goes

high end water > high end air > low end cheap water kits > stock heatsinks

Either get a custom water set up, or dont bother if you are looking for high end cooling performance. If its just for looks, then get whatever


----------



## Ramodkk

Oh I see. I was just looking around at newegg and found this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103029

But according to you and the reviews on it, it's not really worth it. 

And what about thise one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835128015

If not, I'll stick with my ACF7Pro


----------



## taylormsj

Neither will be worth the money !!


----------



## ducis

if your going to liquid cool you should be prepared to spend at least 300 dollars and do a proper DIY setup
in my books its goes

Multistage cascade cooling>LN2O>Single stage phase change>Phase Change Chilled Liquid Cooling>DICE (solid CO2)>high end WCing >High end aircooling & quality low end watercooling> low end watercooling> stock heatsink>quiet coolers


----------



## Geoff

taylormsj said:


> no watercooling kit will be better than a high end air cooler, unless you look at the swiftech kits, i think they are more than 100$ tho.
> 
> It goes
> 
> high end water > high end air > low end cheap water kits > stock heatsinks
> 
> Either get a custom water set up, or dont bother if you are looking for high end cooling performance. If its just for looks, then get whatever


+1

I believe I spent around $300-$350 for my entire setup, but I have room to upgrade if I chose, so I decided to go with a higher quality pump, radiator, etc.  I've never been a huge fan of kits, I always prefer buying the parts and building it yourself.


----------



## dak1b

good details. really good info


----------



## headcrabCAKE

hi i am using air cooling at the moment

if liquid cooling hard to setup? like fit all the parts into the case 
i have a antec 900 case atm (has 2 holes for water cooling tubes to fit into)

are the seals hard or easy to make a mistake and have the whole thing leak and make ya need to buy all the hardware again


----------



## Geoff

headcrabCAKE said:


> hi i am using air cooling at the moment
> 
> if liquid cooling hard to setup? like fit all the parts into the case
> i have a antec 900 case atm (has 2 holes for water cooling tubes to fit into)
> 
> are the seals hard or easy to make a mistake and have the whole thing leak and make ya need to buy all the hardware again


I had my water cooling system in my Antec 900 as well.  I built mine from scratch, it's not too hard to setup, you just need to make sure that you buy parts which are all compatible.  The best way to check is to make sure they take the same ID (inner dimension) size tubing.

The hardest part for me was mounting the waterpump, since the PSU is on the bottom there isn't much room.


----------



## trueheart

what a great cooling system


----------



## neogamer

Very informative and easy to understand. Well done!


----------



## Geoff

Thanks


----------



## Danda

Sweet thanks for your help!


----------



## FatalityTech

Very Nice, but my question is "Is water cooling worth the chance of having a leak and losing all that you worked so hard to build????


----------



## Dazzeerr

FatalityTech said:


> Very Nice, but my question is "Is water cooling worth the chance of having a leak and losing all that you worked so hard to build????



Use a non-conductive liquid if you don't hold trust in yourself


----------



## just a noob

thats why you leak test for 24 hours with nothing turned on other than the pumps and fans, if you don't trust hose clamps, get compression fittings, but they can be up to 7 dollars a piece


----------



## houseofbugs

Cromewell said:


> Indeed, they are almost completely silent (you can't hear it over the ambient noise) when you run them properly too.



I have an eheim and its 5 years old. ran it 24/7.


----------



## houseofbugs

Yeah non-conductive coolant it great. I accidentially spilled some on my GPU and it was fine. Feser One is great stuff. I just got my loop done. CPU, GPU1, GPU2, Mosfet 1, Mosfet 2, NorthBridge, SouthBridge are all water cooled and I have 2 radiators all in one loop.

http://www.timothyhoogland.com/files/betaWC1/


----------



## g4m3rof1337

houseofbugs said:


> Yeah non-conductive coolant it great. I accidentially spilled some on my GPU and it was fine. Feser One is great stuff. I just got my loop done. CPU, GPU1, GPU2, Mosfet 1, Mosfet 2, NorthBridge, SouthBridge are all water cooled and I have 2 radiators all in one loop.
> 
> http://www.timothyhoogland.com/files/betaWC1/



Looks great.


----------



## just a noob

distilled water+pt nuke works just as well


----------



## Machin3

very nice post. hard to come around one of those.


----------



## ThatGuy16

Just a tip guys. The "Conductive Free" coolant is complete utter crap. Its a marketing scheme. In fact, some people have done tests and the distilled water lasted longer. The thing is, nothing its 100% conductive free. 

I would also suggest mixing your own coolant with distilled water, mixed with a small amount of antifreeze and ptnuke, or a few drops of povidone iodine to keep it clean.

The coolants you buy already mixed are expensive, do not transfer heat as well, and almost all of them leave "gunk" in your blocks over time (ie: UV reactive ect.).


----------



## Machin3

this post is good. I was planning to get Liquid Cooling and now i know all about it.


----------



## cOoKiez.n.cReam

wow nice comp


----------



## smafi2000

How do you put pictures on your Post/Thread?

Also how can I become VIP, Diamond, or God member?

thank you,


----------



## TFT

smafi2000 said:


> How do you put pictures on your Post/Thread?
> 
> Also how can I become VIP, Diamond, or God member?
> 
> thank you,



Obvious that you haven't read the rules etc, have a read here, it's all explained
VIP by invitation of Admins/Mods, usually you would be helpful, level headed, give good advice and be a long serving member.
Ranks increase by number of posts

and to become a God member you have to create a miracle, plus don't hijack a thread. If you have a question, start your own.


----------



## Geoff

cOoKiez.n.cReam said:


> wow nice comp


Who are you referring to?



smafi2000 said:


> How do you put pictures on your Post/Thread?
> 
> Also how can I become VIP, Diamond, or God member?
> 
> thank you,


Please keep this on track, if you have a question read the stickies or post a thread in the related sub-section.


----------



## i am a noob

I understand water cooling alot more now thanks


----------



## CdnAudiophile

houseofbugs said:


> Yeah non-conductive coolant it great. I accidentially spilled some on my GPU and it was fine. Feser One is great stuff. I just got my loop done. CPU, GPU1, GPU2, Mosfet 1, Mosfet 2, NorthBridge, SouthBridge are all water cooled and I have 2 radiators all in one loop.
> 
> http://www.timothyhoogland.com/files/betaWC1/



Do you have any pics with everything hooked up? I notice you have no power to your mb or video cards.


----------



## just a noob

god i hate watercooling, i'm looking at close to $200 just in fittings :S


----------



## Geoff

just a noob said:


> god i hate watercooling, i'm looking at close to $200 just in fittings :S


How is that possible?  Fittings are usually under $5 a piece, and you only need 2 per component.


----------



## just a noob

[-0MEGA-];1159903 said:
			
		

> How is that possible?  Fittings are usually under $5 a piece, and you only need 2 per component.



i'll show you how i got $200(going to make a stupid crazy build, and wc stuff you can actually reuse to some extent):
20 of these: compression fittings
2 of these: 90 degree angle
2 of these: rotary fittings
4 of these: stopper fittings
and 2 of these: ball valves


----------



## just a noob

i hate to double post, but this video shows that feser one is mainly marketing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWHFLbZEewU


----------



## whansen02

I'd say that video pretty much sums this up, hey.
Will


----------



## The Best Jack

Great informative guide, pictures and diagrams also really help paint the picture, piked up some points I never knew.

Thanks,

Jack.


----------



## thandakid

Excellent Guide it cleared almost all my doubts except which system would be good for me..


----------



## Turbo10

Good work thats really helpful


----------



## funkysnair

just a noob said:


> i hate to double post, but this video shows that feser one is mainly marketing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWHFLbZEewU



i say this video stands for nothing!

ive had feser one leaking all over my graphicas card for a few hours, didnt notice until the res empty'd and there was no problem (gpu is still running in friends rig)

the fan is low voltage and the internals are magnets!!

prob right in thinking that non conductive coolant is just marketing but the video doesnt prove much really

can someone do a test? pour feser one over motherboard then try with water lol


----------



## just a noob

i would, if i had a video camera lol, i actually have an old p3 mobo sitting right here =\


----------



## bomberboysk

funkysnair said:


> i say this video stands for nothing!
> 
> ive had feser one leaking all over my graphicas card for a few hours, didnt notice until the res empty'd and there was no problem (gpu is still running in friends rig)
> 
> the fan is low voltage and the internals are magnets!!
> 
> prob right in thinking that non conductive coolant is just marketing but the video doesnt prove much really
> 
> can someone do a test? pour feser one over motherboard then try with water lol



Well, pure distilled water is actually non conductive, but the same as with a non conductive coolant if you have alot of dust in your computer and the coolant/water picks up the dust, it can become conductive.


----------



## Duz

Wow, very detailed and help for guide and video

Thanks


----------



## ducis

it would help to include nickle in your comparison charts


----------



## bomberboysk

ducis said:


> it would help to include nickle in your comparison charts


Heatsinks arent nickel plated for its effeciency in transferring heat, but more for the excellent base quality than can be achieved with a nickel electroplated finish, ensuring a better contact area with the cpu heatspreader. Another reason is that it just looks sweet when its got a dark and shiny nickel finish.


----------



## Geoff

mark123456 said:


> I need a lists of uninterruptible  power supply or ups related sites,where i get full info related to ups.


Not in this thread, that's for sure.


----------



## just a noob

http://blog.petrastech.com/index.php?itemid=7 just found a video that shows the "non conductive" fluids are complete bs


----------



## Peter12

very easy understand, good job


----------



## Geoff

shtsplaa said:


> I accept with information: Multiple components within a computer generate excessive amounts of thermal energy, which must be removed to prevent damage. Items such as processor, video card's GPU/RAM, motherboard's chipset, memory, or hard drive are all generally dependent on air cooling mechanisms to remove this heat.


The processor and video card are two devices which produce the most heat, and those are taken care of by the water cooling.  The rest are still cooled from the case intake/exhaust fans.


----------



## ComputerJesus

Maybe it would be a good idea to advise people not to buy water cooling kits since they generally really, really suck?

I wouldn't say this is a guide at all, actually.

This should be teaching the people how to build a water cooling system/kit themselves, i.e: Rad, pump, block, res, coolant, tubing, barbs and fans, not just "Buy a kit".


----------



## Stoic Sentinel

ComputerJesus said:


> Maybe it would be a good idea to advise people not to buy water cooling kits since they generally really, really suck?
> 
> I wouldn't say this is a guide at all, actually.
> 
> This should be teaching the people how to build a water cooling system/kit themselves, i.e: Rad, pump, block, res, coolant, tubing, barbs and fans, not just "Buy a kit".



Well, whenever anyone says they're going to "buy a kit," we object anyways, and most people don't read stickies anyways... sadly.

I would say bomberboysk is the best on the forum with watercooling. But there might be others that just don't pipe up!


----------



## funkysnair

ComputerJesus said:


> Maybe it would be a good idea to advise people not to buy water cooling kits since they generally really, really suck?
> 
> I wouldn't say this is a guide at all, actually.
> 
> This should be teaching the people how to build a water cooling system/kit themselves, i.e: Rad, pump, block, res, coolant, tubing, barbs and fans, not just "Buy a kit".



not all kits are bad, my opinion is that the self contained ones suck-you know the ones with one single radiator trying to cool a cpu?

there are some kits out there by people like swiftech who make kits that are not self contained but contain all the parts seperate for you to build yourself

so its not a matter of "kits are crap" it depends on the kit itself....

thermaltake have kits like swiftech where you have to build them yourself but there pump is week and so is the acrylic on the cpu block and there radiators are poorly made!

if you buy a kit you need to do alot of research and make sure it has the capabilitys to cool your cpu and the quality to last!


----------



## meticadpa

funkysnair said:


> not all kits are bad, my opinion is that the self contained ones suck-you know the ones with one single radiator trying to cool a cpu?
> 
> there are some kits out there by people like swiftech who make kits that are not self contained but contain all the parts seperate for you to build yourself
> 
> so its not a matter of "kits are crap" it depends on the kit itself....
> 
> thermaltake have kits like swiftech where you have to build them yourself but there pump is week and so is the acrylic on the cpu block and there radiators are poorly made!
> 
> if you buy a kit you need to do alot of research and make sure it has the capabilitys to cool your cpu and the quality to last!



Swiftech's kits are generally pretty good as they use the components from their water cooling line (Eg: MCP655 pump, MCR 220 radiator) for the most part, and their stuff is of some of the highest quality. (Well, pumps and CPU blocks are; radiators aren't so amazing, but they're decent enough.)

Thermaltake/Thermalfail/Thermalbreak/Thermalleak on the other hand... No. Their stuff is horrible. Not just is it horrible to look at, but performance leaves a lot to be desired. Oh, and did I mention that they're probably the least reliable kits you can possibly buy?

All the components in their kits are of sub-par quality. When you combine multiple sub-par items together... you get chaos.


----------



## Mr.Corruption

meticadpa said:


> Swiftech's kits are generally pretty good as they use the components from their water cooling line (Eg: MCP655 pump, MCR 220 radiator) for the most part, and their stuff is of some of the highest quality. (Well, pumps and CPU blocks are; radiators aren't so amazing, but they're decent enough.)
> 
> Thermaltake/Thermalfail/Thermalbreak/Thermalleak on the other hand... No. Their stuff is horrible. Not just is it horrible to look at, but performance leaves a lot to be desired. Oh, and did I mention that they're probably the least reliable kits you can possibly buy?
> 
> All the components in their kits are of sub-par quality. When you combine multiple sub-par items together... you get chaos.



Being an ex-owner of a thermaltake kit, I concur. Not only was the cooling performance TERRIBLE but the connections were hellish to set up and it also leaked. Thankfully the leak happened while I was testing it outside of my system.


----------



## bomberboysk

meticadpa said:


> Swiftech's kits are generally pretty good as they use the components from their water cooling line (Eg: MCP655 pump, MCR 220 radiator) for the most part, and their stuff is of some of the highest quality. (Well, pumps and CPU blocks are; radiators aren't so amazing, but they're decent enough.)
> 
> Thermaltake/Thermalfail/Thermalbreak/Thermalleak on the other hand... No. Their stuff is horrible. Not just is it horrible to look at, but performance leaves a lot to be desired. Oh, and did I mention that they're probably the least reliable kits you can possibly buy?
> 
> All the components in their kits are of sub-par quality. When you combine multiple sub-par items together... you get chaos.





Mr.Corruption said:


> Being an ex-owner of a thermaltake kit, I concur. Not only was the cooling performance TERRIBLE but the connections were hellish to set up and it also leaked. Thankfully the leak happened while I was testing it outside of my system.



Agree with the thermaltake, however swiftech kits i prefer to stay away from. The MCR line of rads are somewhat mediocre when it comes to flow loss and heat dissipation, the tubing is generally cheap, the barbs are terrible, the pumps are fine(however i prefer the ddc over the d5), and the waterblocks are fine, plus anymore more and more kits have been including those cheap plastic hose "clamps".


----------



## meticadpa

bomberboysk said:


> Agree with the thermaltake, however swiftech kits i prefer to stay away from. The MCR line of rads are somewhat mediocre when it comes to flow loss and heat dissipation, the tubing is generally cheap, the barbs are terrible, the pumps are fine(however i prefer the ddc over the d5), and the waterblocks are fine, plus anymore more and more kits have been including those cheap plastic hose "clamps".



Swiftech's blocks are great. 

Their radiators aren't amazing, though, but at least they are cheap.

I've not had experience with their barbs though, I use Fatboys.

If I was going to buy a pre-built kit, it'd probably be a Swiftech kit if I couldn't order a Petras kit.


----------



## bomberboysk

meticadpa said:


> Swiftech's blocks are great.
> 
> Their radiators aren't amazing, though, but at least they are cheap.
> 
> I've not had experience with their barbs though, I use Fatboys.
> 
> If I was going to buy a pre-built kit, it'd probably be a Swiftech kit if I couldn't order a Petras kit.



Yeah, i use fatboys in my loop as well. The barbs they include are standard "hi-flow" barbs, which are basically taking a standard g1/4 barb from the hardware store, chrome plating it, and adding an oring. Even for the price of the swiftech rads being "cheap", even cheaper are the XSPC radiators RS line, which offer much better flow rate than the MCRXXX line and also have higher heat dissipation capabilities than the swiftech radiators. And yeah, the swiftech blocks are great for the price(especially something like the XT) but some are pretty mediocre(eg- apogee drive which is basically a ddc with a copper plate attached as a "waterblock".

Quite easily i could sum it up by saying swiftechs are ok, but making a thread and asking for help with a parts list is the best way to do it if you are new to water.



just a noob said:


> http://blog.petrastech.com/index.php?itemid=7 just found a video that shows the "non conductive" fluids are complete bs



Well, some actually are non conductive and will stay non conductive(feser one i think it is, its based on a really thin oil) because just like oil submersion cooling it wont conduct, however many of the coolants such as the one in that video are just water with anticorrosive additives and dye added. I wish i still knew what one they were using but since that was posted its now a different blog.


----------



## just a noob

bomberboysk said:


> Yeah, i use fatboys in my loop as well. The barbs they include are standard "hi-flow" barbs, which are basically taking a standard g1/4 barb from the hardware store, chrome plating it, and adding an oring. Even for the price of the swiftech rads being "cheap", even cheaper are the XSPC radiators RS line, which offer much better flow rate than the MCRXXX line and also have higher heat dissipation capabilities than the swiftech radiators. And yeah, the swiftech blocks are great for the price(especially something like the XT) but some are pretty mediocre(eg- apogee drive which is basically a ddc with a copper plate attached as a "waterblock".
> 
> Quite easily i could sum it up by saying swiftechs are ok, but making a thread and asking for help with a parts list is the best way to do it if you are new to water.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, some actually are non conductive and will stay non conductive(feser one i think it is, its based on a really thin oil) because just like oil submersion cooling it wont conduct, however many of the coolants such as the one in that video are just water with anticorrosive additives and dye added. I wish i still knew what one they were using but since that was posted its now a different blog.



i doubt that it's oil based as it contains ethylene glycol


----------



## bomberboysk

just a noob said:


> i doubt that it's oil based as it contains ethylene glycol



Whoops, always mess up the names of coolants. Was thinking about the primochill pc ice stuff. Feser one is the water based stuff.


----------



## funkysnair

i have used that primochill ice stuff and it was terrible, the gunk dam it.... had to pull my loop apart to get all the gunk out!!


----------



## bomberboysk

funkysnair said:


> i have used that primochill ice stuff and it was terrible, the gunk dam it.... had to pull my loop apart to get all the gunk out!!



Yeh, not saying its good stuff but it is actually non conductive haha.


----------



## TheCompFailure

This was a very good thread [-0MEGA-]. I learned a lot of information i never new about before. This got me really interested in watercooling. "Thanks a lot"


----------



## aviation_man

Anybody have an opinion on this cooler?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002DW96OO...e=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B002DW96OO


----------



## bomberboysk

aviation_man said:


> Anybody have an opinion on this cooler?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002DW96OO...e=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B002DW96OO



Not a fan of sealed cooling systems, something like an IFX-14, Cogage Arrow, Megahalems, Venomous-X, or Noctua would be better.


----------



## aviation_man

bomberboysk said:


> Not a fan of sealed cooling systems, something like an IFX-14, Cogage Arrow, Megahalems, Venomous-X, or Noctua would be better.



So you don't think liquid cooling would be better than air?


----------



## just a noob

Not that liquid cooler, it's a 120.1, and a very thin 120.1, a custom loop would kick that thing's ass up one side of a street, and down the other


----------



## bomberboysk

just a noob said:


> Not that liquid cooler, it's a 120.1, and a very thin 120.1, a custom loop would kick that thing's ass up one side of a street, and down the other





aviation_man said:


> So you don't think liquid cooling would be better than air?



Pretty much what noob said, its a cheap block, cheap pump, cheap fan, small tubing, and cheap rad.


----------



## aviation_man

just a noob said:


> Not that liquid cooler, it's a 120.1, and a very thin 120.1, a custom loop would kick that thing's ass up one side of a street, and down the other



So what kind of liquid cooler could you recommend for the $125 ish range?


----------



## bomberboysk

aviation_man said:


> So what kind of liquid cooler could you recommend for the $125 ish range?



Really not much you can do for $125 unless you go used.


----------



## FuryRosewood

i still really like my h50...for a beginner cooler, tho it isnt the best, with the right fans, it can be pretty quiet...


----------



## ScottALot

If you're wanting to spend that 125$ on cooling, get something like the IFX-14 or Noctua NH-D14 and invest in a really nice fan setup.


----------



## Sepheron

What would be a good and reliable cooling system to put into a Cooler Master HAF 932, and can you have both liquid cooling and fans at the same time in a system?


----------



## Aastii

Sepheron said:


> What would be a good and reliable cooling system to put into a Cooler Master HAF 932, and can you have both liquid cooling and fans at the same time in a system?



Will leave the first part to someone else as I don't know water cooling too well, but as to whether you can have air and water in the same case, yes you can. You could have say your CPU and NB water cooled and your graphics air cooled


----------



## macrylinda

4W4K3 said:


> Well done, very easy to understand and covered the basics throughly.



Looks good, but aqaruim pumps are very reliable  Well if you take out penguin's that is, get a ehiem and it'll last decades.


----------



## Russ88765

Sepheron said:


> What would be a good and reliable cooling system to put into a Cooler Master HAF 932, and can you have both liquid cooling and fans at the same time in a system?



+1 on first part, I have the same case, and would be curious to know of some good coolers(i'm about to buy one along with cpu, I want to overclock to 4ghz). Nothing too heavy, small footprint, and efficient. Had my eye on Corsair H70.


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## MrDeath

is a COOLER MASTER HAF X nVidia Edition NV-942-KKN1 Steel / Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case compatible with water cooling. I'm trying to decide between the cooler master and SILVERSTONE RAVEN RV02-BW Matte black 0.8mm Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case which is compatible with water cooling. But I dont know much on this.


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