# mac is better than pc, proven



## dubesinhower

http://digg.com/d1pCl9

big fail, or the BIGGEST fail?

s'okay, as long as mac comes with photoshop, ill buy one.


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## JTM

dubesinhower said:


> http://digg.com/d1pCl9
> 
> big fail, or the BIGGEST fail?
> 
> s'okay, as long as mac comes with photoshop, ill buy one.



There goes CNBC's credibility, if they ever had it.


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## Motoxrdude

Wow, pure BS. That really ****s me off...


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## Droogie

the other day, our computer crashed

and from what? a virus!!

LOLOLOLOL


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## gamerman4

This is like a plug for every bad idea ever.
Norton AV - FAIL
Geek Squad - FAIL
$104 multimedia software - lolwut?
Music Software - wait so my $100 multimedia software doesn't play songs?
Video Editing - ok wtf, is there anything at all that my $100 multimedia software can do?
Photoshop - my $100 multimedia software can't even edit pics? And where the hell does a news anchor get Photoshop for $140? The site says an upgrade alone is $200


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## theasian100

I saw this on the news the other day... Pissed me off SOO badly!

I mean, They post the things that some person who bought a computer and doesn't know squat about them do, like go to Firedog or geek squad or what ever.

Photoshop, You can get Gimp for free.
Anti virus? Free too! forget norton!

Like whats with this stuff.. And did u see the "unbias" number in fans???

I'd say Epic fail.

Through out the whole thing i was watching it, I was thinking of what someone who actually knows a thing or two would do, and come on! 
"my computer crashed" then stop looking at P0rn >.<


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## Shane

Yup epic fail there,I would love a Mac dont get me wrong but these Mac Vs Pc wars are just getting to the point where its pathetic now.


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## brian

Yeah, I can't say i agree, I can get free virus protection (which is even better), I don't even need geek squad, dont need video editing or photoshop. So i think it ends up being cheaper. Plus i get to customize my computer to what i want in a computer


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## DirtyD86

clip full of bumbling idiots.


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## patrickv

Nevakonaza said:


> but these Mac Vs Pc wars are just getting to the point where its pathetic now.



Yup on someone on CF just had to post it 

we get those every once in a while.
If i watch those commercial on youtube it's just for fun, I don't really care if pc bashes Mac or otherwise, there's no point in proving anything


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## vinnie107

I say windows and mac are both crap.

lets stop the arguements and use linux.


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## tlarkin

Motoxrdude said:


> Wow, pure BS. That really ****s me off...



Why, that is retarded you let it piss you off.

*NEWSFLASH* The media is dumb, they make up crap all the time, this is nothing new.  All media outlets do this.



> I mean, They post the things that some person who bought a computer and doesn't know squat about them do, like go to Firedog or geek squad or what ever.



Most people do not know the ins and outs of computers they just know basic usage.



> Photoshop, You can get Gimp for free.



No such thing as a free lunch and if you need support for Gimp who can you call or email?

I also think the photoshop comment was directed at the consumer based product, Photoshop Elements


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## Droogie

music software for PC:  $100

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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## tlarkin

tknick90 said:


> music software for PC:  $100
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA



I wonder if they are talking about the bundled software with Windows Vista, since the basic version does not have all the multi media bells and whistles the premium version does.


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## Droogie

tlarkin said:


> I wonder if they are talking about the bundled software with Windows Vista, since the basic version does not have all the multi media bells and whistles the premium version does.



possibly

i just thought it was funny, because they actually said "music player"

and i'm assuming they're comparing it with mac's which comes with itunes, and last time i checked it was free lol


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## tlarkin

tknick90 said:


> possibly
> 
> i just thought it was funny, because they actually said "music player"
> 
> and i'm assuming they're comparing it with mac's which comes with itunes, and last time i checked it was free lol



Yeah it is free and there is a windows version...

Oh and there are like 100s of decent free media players as well.

The media is just dumb and they are spreading misinformation.  It is actually worse when tech bloggers and writers do the same thing.


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## Droogie

tlarkin said:


> Yeah it is free and there is a windows version...
> 
> Oh and there are like 100s of decent free media players as well.
> 
> The media is just dumb and they are spreading misinformation.  It is actually worse when tech bloggers and writers do the same thing.



lol i knew it was free, it was just being sarcastic.  

yea and when it comes to technology the media is especially bad.


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## gamerman4

It's like watching them sell computers on HSN. XD


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## Aastii

Hmm, it aint just the software part, when it comes to it he goes onto technical stuff and wtf, he pretty much says "mac is better because it has: faster chip, hig res screen. Erm, well neither of those are strictly true how he said em, you can get that with windows i always thought, and faster chip, which chip? graphics, processor, NB, SB, sound? You can get a system with mac on that is piss poor and one with windows which kicks ass, same the other way round, but he is wrong.

It made me lol because of the stupidity, but really annoyed me that they did this because there are the people who aren't computer savvy who will go "oh my god, how could i not have known that :O and go off of windows...damn americans


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## tlarkin

Aastii said:


> Hmm, it aint just the software part, when it comes to it he goes onto technical stuff and wtf, he pretty much says "mac is better because it has: faster chip, hig res screen. Erm, well neither of those are strictly true how he said em, you can get that with windows i always thought, and faster chip, which chip? graphics, processor, NB, SB, sound? You can get a system with mac on that is piss poor and one with windows which kicks ass, same the other way round, but he is wrong.
> 
> It made me lol because of the stupidity, but really annoyed me that they did this because there are the people who aren't computer savvy who will go "oh my god, how could i not have known that :O and go off of windows...damn americans



There are people out there that don't even know there is an alternative to Windows...


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## gamerman4

tlarkin said:


> There are people out there that don't even know there is an alternative to Windows...



Worse is, there are people that don't exactly get what an OS is, they assume "Windows" is their computer. I also love people that call their computer the "modem".


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## tlarkin

gamerman4 said:


> Worse is, there are people that don't exactly get what an OS is, they assume "Windows" is their computer. I also love people that call their computer the "modem".



yeah man I could spin stories of working IT and dealing with clients/customers/users all day long that would make you laugh and possibly shock you.


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## Droogie

pure pwnage pretty much sums it up

[YT]Un5TEQa2kRc[/YT]


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## tlarkin

tknick90 said:


> pure pwnage pretty much sums it up
> 
> [YT]Un5TEQa2kRc[/YT]



Trust me I have better stories than that.


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## dubesinhower

vinnie107 said:


> I say windows and mac are both crap.
> 
> lets stop the arguements and use linux.



are you dumb? linux handles games like shit. dont even tell me it doesnt. windows > all.



tknick90 said:


> pure pwnage pretty much sums it up
> 
> [YT]Un5TEQa2kRc[/YT]



LOL

your pony died because it wasnt pretty enough.


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## tlarkin

dubesinhower said:


> are you dumb? linux handles games like shit. dont even tell me it doesnt. windows > all.



That is funny I was just thinking that Windows runs some games like crap.  I played COD 4 on my Macbook pro and it ran a lot faster than my quad core desktop....


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## dubesinhower

thats not a real argument. you cant say one is better then the other without comparing the specs of both computers.

that doesnt mean that its windows that makes games run bad.


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## Calibretto

When Mac has the majority of the market share, then they can brag about how they're better than a PC. For now, with PC owning about 85% of the market share, Mac can't say a word.


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## tlarkin

dubesinhower said:


> thats not a real argument. you cant say one is better then the other without comparing the specs of both computers.
> 
> that doesnt mean that its windows that makes games run bad.



You don't need to compare specs, it is all resource management.  How well does your OS manage the resources of your hardware?  It is about efficiency, not about horse power.  You can drop a V10 engine but have a crappy infrastructure for it and get low power output.

Hardware doesn't matter if the OS is not good at taking advantage of it properly.

While I am not saying one is better than the other I am saying your statement is false.


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## tlarkin

Calibretto said:


> When Mac has the majority of the market share, then they can brag about how they're better than a PC. For now, with PC owning about 85% of the market share, Mac can't say a word.



When has quantity ever equaled quality?


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## dubesinhower

Calibretto said:


> When Mac has the majority of the market share, then they can brag about how they're better than a PC. For now, with PC owning about 85% of the market share, Mac can't say a word.



its not so much the physical hardware in each, its the extent of faggotry that extends from them.

mac users think they're the coolest people on the planet, when only a small percent are actually computer literate.

imho, windows gives you alot more bang for buck, as well as more high end performance, and customization. maybe not as much customization as linux, but you get the chance to swap out new parts whereas your stuck with a mac.

also, REAL pc gamers prefer windows.


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## gamerman4

Calibretto said:


> When Mac has the majority of the market share, then they can brag about how they're better than a PC. For now, with PC owning about 85% of the market share, Mac can't say a word.



That's like saying that Internet Explorer is better by using this chart as proof.


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## dubesinhower

tlarkin said:


> You don't need to compare specs, it is all resource management.  How well does your OS manage the resources of your hardware?  It is about efficiency, not about horse power.  You can drop a V10 engine but have a crappy infrastructure for it and get low power output.
> 
> Hardware doesn't matter if the OS is not good at taking advantage of it properly.
> 
> While I am not saying one is better than the other I am saying your statement is false.



o rly? why the **** does that matter? for equal price, you can get so much more power on a pc than a mac, REGARDLESS of resource management. if you dont have enough ram to run vista alone then you probably shouldnt be gaming on it.


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## Calibretto

tlarkin said:


> When has quantity ever equaled quality?



When it comes down to it, money and sales is the most important thing.


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## tlarkin

dubesinhower said:


> its not so much the physical hardware in each, its the extent of faggotry that extends from them.
> 
> mac users think they're the coolest people on the planet, when only a small percent are actually computer literate.
> 
> imho, windows gives you alot more bang for buck, as well as more high end performance, and customization. maybe not as much customization as linux, but you get the chance to swap out new parts whereas your stuck with a mac.
> 
> also, REAL pc gamers prefer windows.




You are so ignorant it is cracking me up.  Go on, tell me how dumb Mac users are.  I want to hear more!


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## dubesinhower

calibretto, your digging windows users a deeper hole lol.

i am perfectly happy with windows. it meets all of my needs as a power user, with more control than i need.


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## dubesinhower

tlarkin said:


> You are so ignorant it is cracking me up.  Go on, tell me how dumb Mac users are.  I want to hear more!



how many mac users do you know that actually know how to use all of the features? not to say that ALL mac users are dumb, but i can definitly tell that some idiots are just on the mac bandwagon because its "the hip thing to do".

even you cant tell me im wrong.


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## Calibretto

dubesinhower said:


> calibretto, your digging windows users a deeper hole lol.



how's that?

All I'm saying is that, yeah sure Mac may be better than PC and Firefox is better than IE, but at the end of the day, from a business standpoint, whoever is making more money and bringing in more customers is the winner.


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## dubesinhower

Calibretto said:


> how's that?
> 
> All I'm saying is that, yeah sure Mac may be better than PC and Firefox is better than IE, but at the end of the day, from a business standpoint, whoever is making more money and bringing in more customers is the winner.



it has to do more with performance than money. i agree with tlarkin with the fact that it is quality over quantity.

but theres such a small portion of windows users that actually know how to make windows perform for quality.


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## tlarkin

Calibretto said:


> When it comes down to it, money and sales is the most important thing.



Why do you think Apple does what they do?  They own the market for cell phones and for portable media players now.  They also make a great product and they KNEW they needed an OS that was a contender against MS.  They also needed to offer something MS could not, which partly was better security which is why when they were shopping around for an OS they bought Next Step, which is Unix.

So, you are saying that MS markets their OS better or perhaps conquered the market first, not that they have a better product?


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## Calibretto

Let me give an example of what I am talking about and I'm probably totally wasting my time with this because this thread is turning into a flame war.

If you have ever seen the Office TV show, Dunder Mifflin is a failing paper company. Why? Because there prices are being beaten by bigger paper companies. Yeah sure Dunder Mifflin has better customer service and there products are the same if not better quality than the bigger paper companies, but it comes down to sales and how many customers you have. Dunder Mifflin might be a better paper company than the bigger companies, but they are failing because of their lack of customers and sales.

I hope I worded that right.


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## tlarkin

dubesinhower said:


> how many mac users do you know that actually know how to use all of the features? not to say that ALL mac users are dumb, but i can definitly tell that some idiots are just on the mac bandwagon because its "the hip thing to do".
> 
> even you cant tell me im wrong.



Let me break it down to you so you can wrap this around your brain.  Apple has roughly 9 to 10 percent market share.  So 1 out of 10 computer owners buys a Mac.  Now consider most people don't know about Macintosh computers and some of them don't even know they really exist.  So that 1 out of 10 people who bought a Mac probably did some research and is probably slightly more educated on the pros and cons of owning a Mac over a PC.

Apple, circa 2001 had less than 3% market share.  So since the debut of OS X, and the boom of the Apple products, and their marketing they went from less than 3% to just under 10% in 8 years.  In a market totally controlled and dominated by Microsoft run computers.

How many PC users know every feature of Windows?


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## JTM

tlarkin said:


> Let me break it down to you so you can wrap this around your brain.  Apple has roughly 9 to 10 percent market share.  So 1 out of 10 computer owners buys a Mac.  Now consider most people don't know about Macintosh computers and some of them don't even know they really exist.  So that 1 out of 10 people who bought a Mac probably did some research and is probably slightly more educated on the pros and cons of owning a Mac over a PC.
> 
> Apple, circa 2001 had less than 3% market share.  So since the debut of OS X, and the boom of the Apple products, and their marketing they went from less than 3% to just under 10% in 8 years.  In a market totally controlled and dominated by Microsoft run computers.
> 
> How many PC users know every feature of Windows?



I actually know most of the features of Vista etc. . The bottom line is preference.

You are taking the "Mac" argument way out of proportion. Macs are over priced, it's a Linux/Unix operating system with quirks. I can get the same enjoyment out of Ubuntu as I can OSX.

Windows is a far superior platform for many reasons. Windows has the majority of the market share and was there first. Windows makes good products, and the control the gaming platform much more flawlessly (by the way I guarantee COD 4 can run just as good on PC as it can on a Mac).

The reason many people "hate" Microsoft is because of what you said earlier, it's a much wider known platform and it's more "open source" if you will, anyone can code, write, and develop hardware for it. With conditions like that it's impossible for Microsoft to keep up with all the bad remarks. For example take Vista, some hardware was incompatible and people were mad at MS for this, even when they had a tool to test compatibility. In reality they should have been mad at Asus, Realtek, etc. Microsoft is allowing the third party companies to come in and add to the excitement of owning a PC.

Mac does have the platform very safe and sleek. It runs smooth and looks nice, but there is no reason to have one over the other. Mac may manage well and have some little "ooohs and aaaahs" but when all is said in done, it's a preference.

I would rather have a computer I can upgrade over the years and customize to my liking, and have the ability to have a true PC experience with no limitations. Apple doesn't offer this, they offer a way for users to set up and have no worries, and that isn't the platform for everyone.

Sorry if this is long and unorganized but I had to vent. Whoever argues this further is ridiculous. Mac is nice, and if you want a one shot setup then it's for you. Windows is for the mainstream including those who don't know it and those who want to hack it, mod it, and learn it.

I write this from Mac OSX so please don't tell me I'm biased . I'd take a 1,000 dollar PC over the 1,000 Apple PC and have a lot more power and enjoyment!


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## ZeroWing

i bet you some people will actually believe this and bring it up in any future mac vs pc discussions. Mac is playing unfair.


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## tlarkin

JTM said:


> I actually know most of the features of Vista etc. . The bottom line is preference.
> 
> You are taking the "Mac" argument way out of proportion. Macs are over priced, it's a Linux/Unix operating system with quirks. I can get the same enjoyment out of Ubuntu as I can OSX.
> 
> Windows is a far superior platform for many reasons. Windows has the majority of the market share and was there first. Windows makes good products, and the control the gaming platform much more flawlessly (by the way I guarantee COD 4 can run just as good on PC as it can on a Mac).
> 
> The reason many people "hate" Microsoft is because of what you said earlier, it's a much wider known platform and it's more "open source" if you will, anyone can code, write, and develop hardware for it. With conditions like that it's impossible for Microsoft to keep up with all the bad remarks. For example take Vista, some hardware was incompatible and people were mad at MS for this, even when they had a tool to test compatibility. In reality they should have been mad at Asus, Realtek, etc. Microsoft is allowing the third party companies to come in and add to the excitement of owning a PC.
> 
> Mac does have the platform very safe and sleek. It runs smooth and looks nice, but there is no reason to have one over the other. Mac may manage well and have some little "ooohs and aaaahs" but when all is said in done, it's a preference.
> 
> I would rather have a computer I can upgrade over the years and customize to my liking, and have the ability to have a true PC experience with no limitations. Apple doesn't offer this, they offer a way for users to set up and have no worries, and that isn't the platform for everyone.
> 
> Sorry if this is long and unorganized but I had to vent. Whoever argues this further is ridiculous. Mac is nice, and if you want a one shot setup then it's for you. Windows is for the mainstream including those who don't know it and those who want to hack it, mod it, and learn it.
> 
> I write this from Mac OSX so please don't tell me I'm biased . I'd take a 1,000 dollar PC over the 1,000 Apple PC and have a lot more power and enjoyment!



Macs are not over priced.  Read my thread about the Macintosh Platform.  They are just higher end computers.  It would be like buying a Bentley over a KIA.  Sure both go 80 MPH from point A to point B, but the Bentley does it in style and has every freaking feature you would want and would never use in it.


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## Droogie

tlarkin said:


> Macs are not over priced.  Read my thread about the Macintosh Platform.  They are just higher end computers.  It would be like buying a Bentley over a KIA.  Sure both go 80 MPH from point A to point B, but the Bentley does it in style and has every freaking feature you would want and would never use in it.



higher end compared to what? just prebuilt PC's?


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## JTM

tlarkin said:


> Macs are not over priced.  Read my thread about the Macintosh Platform.  They are just higher end computers.  It would be like buying a Bentley over a KIA.  Sure both go 80 MPH from point A to point B, but the Bentley does it in style and has every freaking feature you would want and would never use in it.



How are they not over priced? I have the choice of whatever hardware I want in my PC, which gives me bargaining power (brand over brand). I however have no choice with that on a Mac. Macs are overpriced in the hardware OS aspect. They may provide you with more satisfaction, but they are overpriced. 

I can build a computer for any price tag that a Mac has and it will be better, those are just facts tlarkin.


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## tlarkin

tknick90 said:


> higher end compared to what? just prebuilt PC's?



I gotta run to a meeting and eat lunch since I didn't eat today, go back and reread my thread I have dedicated to how they should be compared.  I clearly explain it, you can post any questions regarding what I say in that thread and I will answer them.


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## tlarkin

JTM said:


> How are they not over priced? I have the choice of whatever hardware I want in my PC, which gives me bargaining power (brand over brand). I however have no choice with that on a Mac. Macs are overpriced in the hardware OS aspect. They may provide you with more satisfaction, but they are overpriced.
> 
> I can build a computer for any price tag that a Mac has and it will be better, those are just facts tlarkin.



That is because you can't build a PC spec for spec to a Mac with out it almost costing the same freaking thing.


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## gamerman4

tlarkin said:


> Macs are not over priced.  Read my thread about the Macintosh Platform.  They are just higher end computers.  It would be like buying a Bentley over a KIA.  Sure both go 80 MPH from point A to point B, but the Bentley does it in style and has every freaking feature you would want and would never use in it.



It's funny how when Microsoft adds features they are accused of adding extra bloat, when Apple does this, those are extra "features".
I assume this is why Microsoft is slimming down their OS, Windows 7 FTW! 

Apple has created the "spec for spec" argument, as long as they don't give you options to change what is already there then the "spec for spec" argument is valid because no one can actually know how much those parts are and they will only assume they are "high quality" and must cost twice as much.


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## JTM

tlarkin said:


> That is because you can't build a PC spec for spec to a Mac with out it almost costing the same freaking thing.



That is so false. Have you ever been on Newegg? I can get more of a setup for the same amount of money as a Mac. Don't even say it's not possible.


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## Gooberman

Lol, I've had people call their comupters a CPU sad really.
mac's are a bit overpriced for what you get but you also get a nice 22" screen(usually)


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## DirtyD86

the thing that disgusts me is mac has turned using a computer into a fashion statement. they market their products as being progressive, green, and new age and rarely mention a damn word about the specifics of the computer itself. the ad campaign worked because the general public are complete morons. microsoft noticed this, and was forced to start doing the same thing in order to keep a lead on macs. now we have ads like this:








this isn't an actual ad but it is a clone of all the others you have seen.

it's dripping with hipness... it makes me sick to know this ad is for a COMPUTER. in a nutshell apple has made it about trendiness and fashion and less about the hardware itself. this is the main reason why i hate apple.


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## gamerman4

JTM said:


> That is so false. Have you ever been on Newegg? I can get more of a setup for the same amount of money as a Mac. Don't even say it's not possible.


*flashback* *flashback* *flashback* *flashback* *flashback*
[DEJAVU] http://www.computerforum.com/131108-i-hardly-see-any-threads-about-macs-here-6.html [/DEJAVU]


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## Ramodkk

That guy made a fool of himself. 

But again, general public doesn't know stuff. Like open source programs and the like. There are people out there that don't even know what operating system they're using.


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## Calibretto

ramodkk said:


> But again, general public doesn't know stuff. Like open source programs and the like. There are people out there that don't even know what operating system they're using.



and the general public is where the most sales are, so that's how companies approach all of this.


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## tlarkin

JTM said:


> That is so false. Have you ever been on Newegg? I can get more of a setup for the same amount of money as a Mac. Don't even say it's not possible.



Then build me an exact replica spec for spec of a Mac.  Mac mini, you can't get a computer that powerful that small, even shuttle PCs are over twice the size.  iMac, is the best bet.  Desktop plus LCD monitor, match all the specs and make sure they match, then compare the prices.

As for the Mac Pro, go to Dell and try to build a dual xeon work station spec for spec for the same price.  

Then get back to me.  MAKE SURE you use the same parts and the same specs and it has the same features.  You will be able to find a PC equivalent part for every Mac part out there, and yes I have a $6,000 preferred customer account with newegg.


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## Calibretto

tlarkin said:


> Then build me an exact replica spec for spec of a Mac.  Mac mini, you can't get a computer that powerful that small, even shuttle PCs are over twice the size.  iMac, is the best bet.  Desktop plus LCD monitor, match all the specs and make sure they match, then compare the prices.
> 
> As for the Mac Pro, go to Dell and try to build a dual xeon work station spec for spec for the same price.
> 
> Then get back to me.  MAKE SURE you use the same parts and the same specs and it has the same features.  You will be able to find a PC equivalent part for every Mac part out there, and yes I have a $6,000 preferred customer account with newegg.


This should be interesting


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## tlarkin

gamerman4 said:


> *flashback* *flashback* *flashback* *flashback* *flashback*
> [DEJAVU] http://www.computerforum.com/131108-i-hardly-see-any-threads-about-macs-here-6.html [/DEJAVU]



LOL I just read through that thread again.  I am pretty much going to say the same thing I said in that thread....

I guess you should just get your popcorn ready and enjoy the show.


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## Cromewell

> Then build me an exact replica spec for spec of a Mac. Mac mini, you can't get a computer that powerful that small, even shuttle PCs are over twice the size. iMac, is the best bet. Desktop plus LCD monitor, match all the specs and make sure they match, then compare the prices.


There was a time that Mac stuff was a lot more for what you get but right now you're right, for what you are getting in a Mac it's a pretty good deal.

I would agrue that most of the people who buy a Mac for $2500 are buying way more hardware than they need though. It's like buying a new HD TV to play an old NES on.


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## zombine210

this is a very interesting thread. the one thing i do agree is that having choices is good as long as there is something for everybody.
at home, i use my computer for games more than anything, so i use pc because it was cheap to build and runs all my games decently.
also, my AV is free, as well as WMP, and since i don't use, or need, any of that other software that dude was talking about in the video, i'm not missing much.
i also use linux, as a vm, to freely surf the net  ukn0wh4tIm34n
peace ya'll


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## tlarkin

zombine210 said:


> this is a very interesting thread. the one thing i do agree is that having choices is good as long as there is something for everybody.
> at home, i use my computer for games more than anything, so i use pc because it was cheap to build and runs all my games decently.
> also, my AV is free, as well as WMP, and since i don't use, or need, any of that other software that dude was talking about in the video, i'm not missing much.
> i also use linux, as a vm, to freely surf the net  ukn0wh4tIm34n
> peace ya'll



Well, since Macs can run Windows now, you have every choice with a Mac...<shrug>


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## Motoxrdude

Try and get a mac for gaming and then compare that price to one of a PC that is spec-to-spec, the same. Then get back to me.


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## vinnie107

What actually is it about Mac that you like? I know that nice interfaces impress simple people, but what more do you have?

Thats a genuine question by the way.


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## gamerman4

> What actually is it about Mac that you like? I know that nice interfaces impress simple people, but what more do you have?
> 
> Thats a genuine question by the way.



http://www.computerforum.com/131108-i-hardly-see-any-threads-about-macs-here-4.html

just read it, it is probably the most civil and helpful Mac vs PC debate, it shows just about any argument you could make for and against each system.

There is nothing that can be said that isn't already said in that debate.

Except more recently, Apple decided to be douchebags and remove firewire from the cheaper macbooks.


----------



## tlarkin

gamerman4 said:


> ...Except more recently, Apple decided to be douchebags and remove firewire from the cheaper macbooks.



Their user base already has several online petitions to bring it back.  We will see their next model I guess.


----------



## dubesinhower

tlarkin said:


> Well, since Macs can run Windows now, you have every choice with a Mac...<shrug>



you can run mac on windows... SHRUG


and wait, how many macs are available for under a thousand dollars that arent pieces of shit?


----------



## tlarkin

Motoxrdude said:


> Try and get a mac for gaming and then compare that price to one of a PC that is spec-to-spec, the same. Then get back to me.



That makes no sense at all.  Spec for Spec means they would be the same price.....?


----------



## tlarkin

dubesinhower said:


> you can run mac on windows... SHRUG
> 
> 
> and wait, how many macs are available for under a thousand dollars that arent pieces of shit?



Haha your argument is even more invalid, already resolved to name calling huh?


----------



## dubesinhower

tlarkin said:


> That makes no sense at all.  Spec for Spec means they would be the same price.....?



not at all. spec for spec means they have the same PARTS not the same price


----------



## dubesinhower

tlarkin said:


> Haha your argument is even more invalid, already resolved to name calling huh?



hacintosh has brought osx over to pcs. owned.


----------



## tlarkin

dubesinhower said:


> hacintosh has brought osx over to pcs. owned.



yeaaaaah  hacintosh.....not valid since it does not run as well as OS X does natively on a Mac, and I got your message.  My feelings won't get hurt by a teenager


----------



## tlarkin

dubesinhower said:


> not at all. spec for spec means they have the same PARTS not the same price



Go to Newegg.com build me a PC with a LCD display and make sure it has all the same features/hardware as an iMac.  Actually, don't bother just read that older thread that was posted since we already went through all of this.


----------



## Ramodkk

dubesinhower said:


> not at all. spec for spec means they have the same PARTS not the same price



Price is a specification


----------



## tlarkin

ramodkk said:


> Price is a specification



Price is not a feature, it is a benefit.


----------



## Droogie

tlarkin said:


> Go to Newegg.com build me a PC with a LCD display and make sure it has all the same features/hardware as an iMac.  Actually, don't bother just read that older thread that was posted since we already went through all of this.



i could build one spec wise for less, but it wouldn't have all the bells and whistles that macs have, if thats what you mean.


----------



## just a noob

i hate these mac versus pc fights, they're the equivalent to a pissing contest


----------



## tlarkin

tknick90 said:


> i could build one spec wise for less, but it wouldn't have all the bells and whistles that macs have, if thats what you mean.



That is what a specification is, the bells and whistles, like:

LED back lit screens
High resolution screens
ABGN wireless
FW 400 and FW 800
Camera
Media remote
Bluetooth 2.0 EDR
backlit keyboards
SMS sensor
other hardware specs
size
weight

Then look at replacement cycle and maintenance cost.  How many people buy new Macs every year or two versus people that buy new PCs?  If you can't find a PC part to match the Mac then you got to deduct that cost from the Mac to make it a fair comparison.

Ultimately, it comes down to preference, but to say they are over priced is just plain wrong.  They are not over priced, they are high end machines.  It would be like comparing a honda civic to a Porsche.


----------



## dubesinhower

tlarkin said:


> yeaaaaah  hacintosh.....not valid since it does not run as well as OS X does natively on a Mac, and I got your message.  My feelings won't get hurt by a teenager



thats what you think. it runs pretty well on my friends computer. as well as linux does anyways.


----------



## tlarkin

dubesinhower said:


> thats what you think. it runs pretty well on my friends computer. as well as linux does anyways.



Apple releases an update to fix a bug, OS X x86 project hast o reverse engineer that update to make it work on non Macs.  So yes there is a margin of error and Macs are designed and optimized to run on Apple hardware, so yes there will be margin of error there too.


----------



## dubesinhower

tlarkin said:


> That is what a specification is, the bells and whistles, like:
> 
> LED back lit screens
> High resolution screens
> ABGN wireless
> FW 400 and FW 800
> Camera
> Media remote
> Bluetooth 2.0 EDR
> backlit keyboards
> SMS sensor
> other hardware specs
> size
> weight
> 
> Then look at replacement cycle and maintenance cost.  How many people buy new Macs every year or two versus people that buy new PCs?  If you can't find a PC part to match the Mac then you got to deduct that cost from the Mac to make it a fair comparison.
> 
> Ultimately, it comes down to preference, but to say they are over priced is just plain wrong.  They are not over priced, they are high end machines.  It would be like comparing a honda civic to a Porsche.



you keep saying that like windows machines are low end. there ARE very nice windows computers that are far superior to any mac. if your going to make comparisons, then yea your mac can be a porsche. but if your mac is a porsche, this is a windows machine with i7 965 and 12 gigs of ram running windows 7:

[YT]BuRrleV9QWU[/YT]


----------



## Droogie

tlarkin said:


> That is what a specification is, the bells and whistles, like:
> 
> LED back lit screens
> High resolution screens
> ABGN wireless
> FW 400 and FW 800
> Camera
> Media remote
> Bluetooth 2.0 EDR
> backlit keyboards
> SMS sensor
> other hardware specs
> size
> weight
> 
> Then look at replacement cycle and maintenance cost.  How many people buy new Macs every year or two versus people that buy new PCs?  If you can't find a PC part to match the Mac then you got to deduct that cost from the Mac to make it a fair comparison.
> 
> Ultimately, it comes down to preference, but to say they are over priced is just plain wrong.  They are not over priced, they are high end machines.  It would be like comparing a honda civic to a Porsche.



uhh, well i'm not saying it's overpriced.  i'm talking about the hardware.  i'm on apples site looking at an imac for over 3 grand.  all i'm saying is that i could build a pc including a monitor keyboard etc. for a thousand dollars less, at least with the exact same specs (hardware).  

not trying to get into an argument with you, i just don't see how 3,250 is a good price.


----------



## just a noob

*spam*


----------



## tlarkin

dubesinhower said:


> you keep saying that like windows machines are low end. there ARE very nice windows computers that are far superior to any mac. if your going to make comparisons, then yea your mac can be a porsche. but if your mac is a porsche, this is a windows machine with i7 965 and 12 gigs of ram running windows 7:



Just because it has the newest hardware you are still paying more, since the new hardware is way more expensive which totally defeats the argument that Macs are over priced.  You can't even debate properly.

What is your stance now?  Are they over priced, or is it the fact their i7 model is not out yet?  What is your point?

Compare Alienware to a Macbook Pro, which is over priced?  

12 gigs of RAM, WTF would 12 gigs of RAM be used for to an end user?  LOL, that isn't even an argument, that is just plain stupid.  There have been Hollywood movies edited on Macbook Pros, which only boast 4gigs of RAM.  12gigs of RAM, what are you a node on a rendering farm?


----------



## tlarkin

tknick90 said:


> uhh, well i'm not saying it's overpriced.  i'm talking about the hardware.  i'm on apples site looking at an imac for over 3 grand.  all i'm saying is that i could build a pc including a monitor keyboard etc. for a thousand dollars less, at least with the exact same specs (hardware).
> 
> not trying to get into an argument with you, i just don't see how 3,250 is a good price.



You referring to a Mac Pro?  Those are dual Xeon processors, which are not cheap, and neither are dual Xeon Motherboards.  I think you have your Macs/parts confused.  No way you could build a dual Xeon machines for $1,000 less than a Mac Pro.


----------



## g4m3rof1337




----------



## /\E

And this is why Mac users look like idiots... Because of stupid media.


----------



## dubesinhower

k i dont really care anymore.  windows > macs.


----------



## tlarkin

dubesinhower said:


> k i dont really care anymore.  windows > macs.



That is fine, but you are still wrong regardless of how you feel.


----------



## /\E

dubesinhower said:


> k i dont really care anymore.  windows > macs.



Heh. Prove it!


----------



## JTM

tlarkin said:


> Apple releases an update to fix a bug, OS X x86 project hast o reverse engineer that update to make it work on non Macs.  So yes there is a margin of error and Macs are designed and optimized to run on Apple hardware, so yes there will be margin of error there too.



They actually have it so that the hackintosh can update through valid Apple. Thanks.

My case still holds, there is no reason to purchase a Mac. You can go on all you want about nice screens and all that junk, but I'm fine with my 19' widescreen LCD. But when it comes down to it all the hardware is the same so why pay more. And why pay more for an open source OS re-hash?

Also if you would like to further look into Hackint0sh I believe lifehacker has actual builds that run it perfectly without any flaws.


----------



## /\E

JTM said:


> They actually have it so that the hackintosh can update through valid Apple. Thanks.
> 
> My case still holds, there is no reason to purchase a Mac. You can go on all you want about nice screens and all that junk, but I'm fine with my 19' widescreen LCD. But when it comes down to it all the hardware is the same so why pay more. And why pay more for an open source OS re-hash?
> 
> Also if you would like to further look into Hackint0sh I believe lifehacker has actual builds that run it perfectly without any flaws.



Ok... Since you know so much about OSx86, then how many machines will work with it? Lifehacker might have 3-4 machines(ooh-ahh) that run it, but I will tell you from my experience that it almost hates the world. It's best ran on Apple hardware.

It's a PITA! I've tried it, been there and done that, I even have the t-shirt.

It's not an 'open source re-hash', you'd know this if you'd went any further than the interface and fanboy articles.

Nobody is going to argue about nice screens, although they are pretty slick.


----------



## dubesinhower

or, you could stay with a much more sophisticated operating system, windows 7.


----------



## JTM

/\E said:


> Ok... Since you know so much about OSx86, then how many machines will work with it? Lifehacker might have 3-4 machines(ooh-ahh) that run it, but I will tell you from my experience that it almost hates the world. It's best ran on Apple hardware.
> 
> It's a PITA! I've tried it, been there and done that, I even have the t-shirt.
> 
> It's not an 'open source re-hash', you'd know this if you'd went any further than the interface and fanboy articles.
> 
> Nobody is going to argue about nice screens, although they are pretty slick.



How is it not a "re-hash" it's built off of Unix/Linux and you can find many of the features it has in any distro of Linux. Not saying it's shit, I'm just saying. Also what is wrong with Hackint0sh running perfectly on 3-4 machines? If a user wants Mac and can get it fully functional for cheaper and better hardware, then I congratulate them.

And since I have used it how am I related to fanboy articles. I haven't said anything angrily towards you, I just stated that they aren't worth the price.

They are for people that don't know any better.


----------



## lovely?

JTM said:


> How is it not a "re-hash" it's built off of Unix/Linux and you can find many of the features it has in any distro of Linux. Not saying it's shit, I'm just saying. Also what is wrong with Hackint0sh running perfectly on 3-4 machines? If a user wants Mac and can get it fully functional for cheaper and better hardware, then I congratulate them.
> 
> And since I have used it how am I related to fanboy articles. I haven't said anything angrily towards you, I just stated that they aren't worth the price.
> 
> They are for people that don't know any better.



i have to agree. i would rather pay my $1200 and get a PC instead of spending $2000 on a computer with worse specs. and anyways, i haven't spent anything near even $100 on software for my PC. (but guess what... i have photoshop)


----------



## Faded Orion

As a Graphic Engineer, (Digital Artist as some people call it) I use whatever I can get my hands on, I roll best on the program designed for the job, mac, Pc, whatever. 

hehe hard to complain when both seem to provide about the same for me.

Mouse sensitivity is pretty much all I care about, frame rate is necessary for makeing videos I supose but I'm not into film making.


----------



## Droogie

tlarkin said:


> You referring to a Mac Pro?  Those are dual Xeon processors, which are not cheap, and neither are dual Xeon Motherboards.  I think you have your Macs/parts confused.  No way you could build a dual Xeon machines for $1,000 less than a Mac Pro.



iMac is what i did on apples website.  it was around $3,250 and the specs were equivalent to what a $1,500-$2,000 custom built PC would cost (including a 24' monitor)  i just find it hard to justify when we are talking almost 2 thousand dollars more.  i can post everything up if you like, the iMac and the custom PC that i've put together (on newegg) and you can see for yourself.


----------



## patrickv

dubesinhower said:


> k i dont really care anymore.  windows > macs.



Guys guys relax, chill out. Let a mod close this thread. It's getting pointleess



dubesinhower said:


> thats what you think. it runs pretty well on my friends computer. as well as linux does anyways.



You wish, I have been an avid user of Hackintosh for years and trust me when it doesn't work, it doesn't. It's just not a mac Just go on over on InsanelyMac and you'll see dozen of threads about "my pc doesn't boot" or similar thread <- and by PC they mean their Hack.

Bottom line dubesinshower, you're 19, grow up a bit more and realize theres no point in arguing about Mac >Windows or Windows > Mac

cheers


----------



## dubesinhower

patrickv said:


> Guys guys relax, chill out. Let a mod close this thread. It's getting pointleess
> 
> 
> 
> You wish, I have been an avid user of Hackintosh for years and trust me when it doesn't work, it doesn't. It's just not a mac Just go on over on InsanelyMac and you'll see dozen of threads about "my pc doesn't boot" or similar thread <- and by PC they mean their Hack.
> 
> Bottom line dubesinshower, you're 19, grow up a bit more and realize theres no point in arguing about Mac >Windows or Windows > Mac
> 
> cheers



i was going to read all that but then i saw your post count. nice.


----------



## JTM

patrickv said:


> Guys guys relax, chill out. Let a mod close this thread. It's getting pointleess
> 
> 
> 
> You wish, I have been an avid user of Hackintosh for years and trust me when it doesn't work, it doesn't. It's just not a mac Just go on over on InsanelyMac and you'll see dozen of threads about "my pc doesn't boot" or similar thread <- and by PC they mean their Hack.
> 
> Bottom line dubesinshower, you're 19, grow up a bit more and realize theres no point in arguing about Mac >Windows or Windows > Mac
> 
> cheers



I've seen it work first hand. Weird?


----------



## dubesinhower

patrickv said:


> You wish, I have been an avid user of Hackintosh for years and trust me when it doesn't work, it doesn't. It's just not a mac Just go on over on InsanelyMac and you'll see dozen of threads about "my pc doesn't boot" or similar thread <- and by PC they mean their Hack.



and btw what i found ironic about that is this is a computer forum that has dozens of threads about how there windows machine doesnt work. the whole ****ing reason for a forum is to fix your problems and discuss improvements. i think you miss the point.


----------



## Droogie

windows ME is the best anyways... oh well.


----------



## dubesinhower

tknick90 said:


> windows ME is the best anyways... oh well.


----------



## Intel_man

Interesting how the report says lots about Geek squad costs and Anti Virus costs. 

What a tool.


----------



## Droogie

Intel_man said:


> Interesting how the report says lots about Geek squad costs and Anti Virus costs.
> 
> What a tool.



don't forget the $100 for a music player haha


----------



## dubesinhower

lol i know. i forgot that there are dozens of free media players available. lol.

but at least he gets viruses lol.


----------



## tlarkin

tknick90 said:


> iMac is what i did on apples website.  it was around $3,250 and the specs were equivalent to what a $1,500-$2,000 custom built PC would cost (including a 24' monitor)  i just find it hard to justify when we are talking almost 2 thousand dollars more.  i can post everything up if you like, the iMac and the custom PC that i've put together (on newegg) and you can see for yourself.



I have 100s of iMacs at work and none of them cost that much provide a link plz.


----------



## tlarkin

JTM said:


> They actually have it so that the hackintosh can update through valid Apple. Thanks.
> 
> My case still holds, there is no reason to purchase a Mac. You can go on all you want about nice screens and all that junk, but I'm fine with my 19' widescreen LCD. But when it comes down to it all the hardware is the same so why pay more. And why pay more for an open source OS re-hash?
> 
> Also if you would like to further look into Hackint0sh I believe lifehacker has actual builds that run it perfectly without any flaws.



Wrong.  I have also used it and it hacks around the TPM that apple puts on their computers and their updates, get this still follow the TPM standards.  Updates have to be hacked.  Just like psystar or whatever they said they have to release their own updates.

Your hardware is also not the same.


----------



## Motoxrdude

tlarkin said:


> That makes no sense at all.  Spec for Spec means they would be the same price.....?



No.... Spec for spec means they are spec for spec, lol. How would the price stay the same when comparing apples to PCs?


----------



## tlarkin

Motoxrdude said:


> No.... Spec for spec means they are spec for spec, lol. How would the price stay the same when comparing apples to PCs?



That means you need to add all the extras that come STANDARD on a mac!  So if we were actually comparing spec for spec you need to add all the specifications, which make them about the same price!


----------



## Motoxrdude

Yeah that's great and all, but what exactly comes standard on a mac that I would have to purchase for a PC?


----------



## Intel_man

tlarkin said:


> I have 100s of iMacs at work and none of them cost that much provide a link plz.



Errr... buying lots of Apple products at the same time will give you DISCOUNTS.


----------



## Bodaggit23

My buddy at work just had his MacBook Pro's logic board go out.
It's not even a year old. Apple quoted him $1200.00 to replace it.

At this point, he could have bought 3 comparable laptops for what
he paid initially, plus the cost to repair it. And, he'd still have a spare.

As far as the Mac Pro, who the heck needs a server chip (let alone 2!)
and ECC RAM? *Who is going to utilize these systems enough to realize
a difference* in performance between buffered RAM and a Xeon cpu, versus non buffered DDR3 and a vanilla i7?

Also, $700.00 for a RAID card? $700.00 for a RAID card?

And you can upgrade the 640GB HDD to a 1TB HDD for $100.00, but each 
1TB HDD you add after that is $300.00?

Yes, they use high end parts, and you'll pay premium prices for them
(don't know how you'd justify the RAID cardvand 1TB HDD's though)
regardless whether they're in a PC or a Mac, but who _needs_ a Mac Pro?

Maybe I couldn't build a Mac Pro spec for spec for less money, but I could
build 2 vanilla i7 PC's for the same price as one Mac Pro.
(Nehalem 2.66GHZ, 3GB DDR3, 640GB HDD, RAID, Radeon HD 4870, etc)

There's no sense, or value, to me, in buying a Ferrari as a daily driver.


----------



## gamerman4

tlarkin, i dunno why u even try. I'm a Windows guy and every pro-Win statement on this thread makes me sad.

Lemme help you kiddies out:
It is either
PC vs Mac
or
Windows vs OSX
there is no such thing as Windows vs Mac idiots...

What tlarkin is trying to say is that part for part (every bell and whistle) adds to the price of a Mac, some argue that they cost too much for little benefit (LED LCD is one, they are quite an added expense just to make sure the light is more uniform), they still cost that much because they use more expensive (i'm not going to say high quality) parts. Some argue the use of the features, they are still there and will add to the price no matter how useless they are.
Price aside, my only problem is with the operating system itself, I've never really been a fan of the dock as your main mode of transportation and that rather than a different bar for each window, the top bar changes according to what program you have active at that time which may be great for some but I like the way Windows does things. I also like the fact that a program is constrained inside its own window, it becomes distracting when every element is in its own free-floating window like in OSX (this becomes especially annoying when using photoshop on OSX)


----------



## dznutz

i was watching cnbc while working out and they mentioned this.  it seemed like an ad for mac.  full of flaws.  obviously aimed at the computer illiterate.


----------



## tlarkin

Motoxrdude said:


> Yeah that's great and all, but what exactly comes standard on a mac that I would have to purchase for a PC?



There are lots of things that come standard on a Mac laptop that do not come standard on a PC laptop, and this is not including software, but if you want to include iLife and other built in software features and what it can do out of the box, then a Mac's value increases exponentially.  

I have already listed a few of the features that come standard.  Like for example, every Mac has BT 2.0 EDR, and ABGN Wireless.  These are typically pay for upgrades on a PC notebook.  LED back lit screens are more expensive, and yes they have lots of benefits.  They consume less power, they are environmentally safe (don't contain any toxins in them, ie mercury), then you have the subtle built in features like the ambient light sensor.  For example, I leave the room I am currently in and put my Macbook Pro in my back pack.  I travel to building 3 and go into the room I am now going to work in for a while.  I pull my laptop out and open it up, which awakens it from sleeping.  The ambient light sensor automatically detects how much light is in the room and will adjust the keyboard back light (another standard feature) and the screen brightness to the most optimal brightness settings in my given environment.  Do I need this feature, nope, is it pretty damn sick?  Yes, it is very slick.  

Bodaggit23

I was a lead tech in a warranty repair center for 6 years.  No laptop is cost effective to fix out of warranty they are all over priced parts.  This is due to the fact that most parts manufactured for laptops are for production, not for servicing them out of warranty.  Most people, when their laptop dies, replace it since it is more cost effective, thus driving down the demand for such service parts, thus driving up the price.  Also, every warranty repair shop marks up parts.  Car shops do it, and so do computer shops.  I can look up the actual cost of parts and I bet that $1200 logic board was probably around a $600 to $700 cost to the shop, the rest was marked up.  The service industry does that, and that is just part of the gig.  

Now your comment on RAID cards, dude I have RAID cards that are over $1,000 brand new in servers, and while I am on the topic of servers, Apple Servers are the best bang for your buck right now.  I manage 33 Xserves at work, and we also have a crap ton of Dell servers as well, which are less spec and the same price.  Then you want to look at rack mount RAID arrays, and look at Apple's XRAID, which is very competitively priced.  Apple is definitely trying to gain some market share in the server market for sure.  

Who needs to use a Mac Pro?  Hmm, well companies like Pixar need them.  They aren't play toys like your PC gaming rig, they are serious work machines that do serious work.  Go to any high end audio/video industry where they do lots and lots of rendering and/or video editing/compositing and they will almost always have some if not most of their computers Macs.  Are you going to buy a Mac Pro for gaming?  Only if you are dumb and have money to waste.

Intel_man -

Yeah, come on dude, show me an iMac that cost $3k?  Bulk discount?  Yeah business sales you do get a bit of a discount but it would never drop the price from a $3k unit down to under $1k.  I believe the iMac starts at around $1100 or so.


----------



## brian

dubesinhower said:


> and btw what i found ironic about that is this is a computer forum that has dozens of threads about how there windows machine doesnt work. the whole ****ing reason for a forum is to fix your problems and discuss improvements. i think you miss the point.



Please watch your language, using asterisks to block out the word is still not allowed



patrickv said:


> Guys guys relax, chill out. Let a mod close this thread. It's getting pointleess
> 
> 
> 
> You wish, I have been an avid user of Hackintosh for years and trust me when it doesn't work, it doesn't. It's just not a mac Just go on over on InsanelyMac and you'll see dozen of threads about "my pc doesn't boot" or similar thread <- and by PC they mean their Hack.
> 
> Bottom line dubesinshower, you're 19, grow up a bit more and realize theres no point in arguing about Mac >Windows or Windows > Mac
> 
> cheers



Agree, The choice between a mac and a PC is an opinion; nothing to get worked up about. So for now, thread closed.


----------

