# New Xbox revealed!



## tech savvy

In 5 minutes, Microsoft is revealing there next generation console on Xbox Live. I have it up on my Xbox waiting for the show! Just thought I'll bring it up for people that didn't know. 

Lets see what Microsoft has to bring!


Edit: 

Well, the name for the new Xbox is "Xbox One", and it looks amazing! 

Voice activated, voice recognition, snap mode, switch mode, skype....The software alone is just amazing. PS4 didn't show much on it's reveal, but I hope it has at least half the software the Xbox has.


The hardware is about on par as the PS4, but I got to say, the games showed looked really good. I really think the software is going to make the Xbox One stand out, BIG time!

Launch date...Sometime this year!


Side note. Microsoft said 'Call of Duty' franchise, will launch all new content on 'Xbox One' first before any other console.


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## Rit

This XBox reveal is the best comedy I've ever seen!


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## salvage-this

Yeah thanks for he HTPC Microsoft.


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## tech savvy

salvage-this said:


> Yeah thanks for he HTPC Microsoft.



I doubt your HTPC can do what the 'Xbox One' can, lmao! Did you even watch the reveal, because with a comment like that, I doubt it. 

But really, isn't that what we all want, an all-in-one console? Don't have to worry about switching from one device to another. I really think it's great that it has all them nice features, you get more for my money.


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## Rit

Pff... at best it's a HTPC from 5-10 years ago... Same old crap wrapped up in a different designed box.


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## WeatherMan

tech savvy said:


> I doubt your HTPC can do what the 'Xbox One' can, lmao! Did you even watch the reveal, because with a comment like that, I doubt it.
> 
> But really, isn't that what we all want, an all-in-one console? Don't have to worry about switching from one device to another. I really think it's great that it has all them nice features, you get more for my money.



No I don't want an all-in-one console, that's what a PC is for.


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## salvage-this

tech savvy said:


> I doubt your HTPC can do what the 'Xbox One' can, lmao! Did you even watch the reveal, because with a comment like that, I doubt it.
> 
> But really, isn't that what we all want, an all-in-one console? Don't have to worry about switching from one device to another. I really think it's great that it has all them nice features, you get more for my money.



I watched it, start to finish.

It is nice.  I can appreciate the design, fluidity and concepts that Xbox One showcases.  The problem that I have with it is I do not like some of the new features that it has to offer.  Maybe It is just my mindset that if I want it I will make it the way I want.  I am happy that I do not have to shout at my PC whenever I want MWC to play a file.  What if I have friends over?  Music on? Games?  I just think that if you find the right person that wants everything in one box and they like the interface, then it will be awesome.  However for most users it is just more than what (to me) an Xbox should be.  If you announce that there is a new gaming console and gaming was not what was really focused on when it was announced it seems like they are trying to change what the Xbox was made for.

The reveal looked more like a Windows 8 XBMC reveal rather than a gaming console.


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## tech savvy

WeatherMan said:


> No I don't want an all-in-one console, that's what a PC is for.



Lmao, consoles are computers, just scaled down in size. 

The Xbox One is more simplified, and ease of use then a PC. Also, consoles bring more games, and a bigger online community then PC's.

Truly, I think we got some bias people here. I really don't see why ya'll hating on the Xbox, when it clearly brought innovative software/features that we will all use, abuse, but not appreciate?

Come on people, you really think you can do better?!? I thought so, because if you could, you wouldn't be here talking smack!


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## tech savvy

Rit said:


> Pff... at best it's a HTPC from 5-10 years ago... Same old crap wrapped up in a different designed box.



Oooook, what-ever you say, Lol. Go back under your rock.


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## Rit

All the crap they were talking about with their games is the same thing... I was laughing soooooo much during the COD presentation... Dogs.. leaning... sliding... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## PohTayToez

All they really showed off was the media center features.  Don't get me wrong, if it works like they showed I'm actually really excited for it, but I feel like the gaming aspect of it was all show and no substance.  Seriously there was no in game footage and they didn't talk about XBox Live at all, didn't go into detail on any specs or anything at all really.  It felt like more of a teaser than a reveal.


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## Punk

tech savvy said:


> Also, consoles bring more games, and a bigger online community then PC's.



What is that based on?


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## salvage-this

Rit said:


> All the crap they were talking about with their games is the same thing... I was laughing soooooo much during the COD presentation... Dogs.. leaning... sliding... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz



Yep.  I saw the animation of the dive and going over the wall and I thought, didn't BF3 do that already?.  



PohTayToez said:


> All they really showed off was the media center features.  Don't get me wrong, if it works like they showed I'm actually really excited for it, but I feel like the gaming aspect of it was all show and no substance.  Seriously there was no in game footage and they didn't talk about XBox Live at all, didn't go into detail on any specs or anything at all really.  It felt like more of a teaser than a reveal.



Exactly.  The only thing that I was really excited about was the new game engine.  It did look good.


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## Rit

The new game engine helps their case, but their new '15 exclusives' better step it up or it's just a dolled up version of the xbox 360.


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## salvage-this

Rit said:


> The new game engine helps their case, but their new '15 exclusives' better step it up or it's just a dolled up version of the xbox 360.



Even if it is a dolled up version of the 360 it's about time.  In PC hardware years It's pretty old.


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## Hyper-Threaded

I dont understand it, its just a computer with limited functions. I bet the call of duty kids will be happy.


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## wbt50

To be honest I don't understand why Sony and Microsoft are so obsessed about making game consoles 'All in One Entertainment units'. I'd say over 90% of the people who have consoles, have some sort of a computer in the house which pretty much does all these 'added' features.

I'd rather see the PS4 and Xbox One stick to gaming. I don't see any added features a bonus my self. I'd rather they spend more development time on hardware and improved gaming capabilities.


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## Aastii

I expected little, I received little, so it was average at best. I will wait for E3, but to be honest it will most likely be just as little substance as we have already seen.


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## jonnyp11

I'm just waiting for the next gen where it will be running windows and be a full pc with some slight changes.

Really, what people want is a gaming computer, they either just dont realise it or think it will cost too much (which buyingone does). Ontop of that is the fact that everyone has consoles so they want to play with friends


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## Rit

steam box ftw?


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## jonnyp11

Rit said:


> steam box ftw?



Wouldnt say ftw and doubt it will be adopted as well as it should be


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## Thanatos

> With Xbox One, games are so lifelike, you’ll swear
> they’re real.



In 10 years, we'll laugh so hard at this statement.


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## M1kkelZR

and I still stand by PC > Console.

Its true the console has a bigger community on most games, and some games I do prefer on console (old school feel of the NES etc.). The Xbox One to me seems more like some Media PC with alright hardware to just about run a game, I don't think it looks good. It's just a shiny box and a few flashy lights. Just my opinion though.


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## Mez

Thanatos said:


> In 10 years, we'll laugh so hard at this statement.



I'm already laughing.


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## cracker2

salvage-this said:


> Even if it is a dolled up version of the 360 it's about time.In PC hardware years It's pretty old.


A 8 core cpu,8gb ram,& blu ray format seems pretty much up to date to me.Hell I still don't have a bluray lol.Imo it isn't far off from being a decent pc.I read it has IE,finally a web browser!Lol.For $600 I was expecting much better,wonder how good of a pc build you could get with that.That is what game console companies are facing up against.I also read the HDD isn't removable like the 360s,what the hell.


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## salvage-this

I was saying that the 360 is old.  Xbox one is considerably better than the 360 but still no high end gaming PC.  For $600 that is to be expected.


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## Troncoso

You guys act like it needs 690's in SLI to be able to do anything. You have to remember that these machines are designed and optimized to run the games made for them. Unlike a PC, nearly all of a console's resources are dedicated to running a game. Granted, Microsoft is going for a much more HTPC approach. Though, considering they've had some 7 years for this, I'm sure their execution for a game console/media center is a lot more thought out than any of our 5 minute speculations.

These companies aren't putting bleeding edge hardware in these machines because, first off, they don't need it. And second, that would considerably increase the price. Hardware these days is quite far ahead of the day to day software we run on it. (And for those who are going to bring up Crisis or something similar, learn a little about software optimization before looking stupid)

Not that I'm defending this machine. From what I've seen, it is no more enticing than the first 2 consoles. I'll stick with Sony.


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## salvage-this

PCs don't need 690 SLI to work either.  I understand that consoles are optimized for gaming.  That is why they can have lower end hardware and still have decent performance.  

It just seems to me that if I were a console gamer I would be pissed because I want to play with my friends that have the new console I have to fork over $600 (if that is the starting price) for a console that wants to do everything.  I just think that gamers want a box to play games on for less money.  The extras are nice but for the general public it seems un necessary

This is what I got from watching the stream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw&feature=player_embedded


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## Turbo10




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## spirit

Just wanted to show you guys this:






You can see the GeForce 8800 Ultra tech demo by NVIDIA here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIGWAYS5uRw

Looks like the details on human heads in COD Ghosts is similar to that of a tech demo NVIDIA demonstrated 6 years ago... you can see in Turbo10's post above what you can do now with newer cards. Though I guess constantly comparing console graphics to that of high-end gaming cards is a little pointless because the hardware in these consoles is never really 'high-end'.


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## Troncoso

Yes. Let's compare 2 different platforms by using two different games...Really? Comparing Crysis 3 to the new CoD doesn't show/prove anything. The difference has nothing to do with hardware, the game companies' decision of how much quality they wanted to achieve in their graphics. Compare the same game on both platforms. While the PC version will still look better, the difference will be marginal.

And even besides that, you would probably have to spend a lot more than the new Xbox will cost to run Crysis 3 at max settings. So, there's that.
Not saying this article is accurate, but as a reference point, it says to run Crysis 3 on "High Performance Settings" (Note that it doesn't say "Max Settings"), you'll need a setup that consists of something like an i7 2600, and a GTX 680. So, that alone can easily net over $600 (Assuming the the Xbox is at that price point), not to mention the rest of the components you need...

And Spirit, rendering a static 3D model isn't really comparable rendering a virtual world with numerous animated objects.


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## Rit

But even then. If I'm going to spend $600 on the xbox one. Or I can get a better computer for another $100-200, the better computer is going to be a better investment.


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## Justin

Jesus Christ, you lot are difficult to please.

Same hardware 7 years apart. It will become better over time.










On topic: The console itself is alright. Microsoft's strategy to appeal to a broader audience worked when even my father said he wanted one. My Christmas shopping has been made easier.  

As of now, I'm leaning towards getting a PlayStation 4 over the Xbox One. Most of my friends have PlayStation 3's right now. If they'll be picking up a 4 then why switch camps?


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## jonnyp11

Troncoso said:


> Yes. Let's compare 2 different platforms by using two different games...Really? Comparing Crysis 3 to the new CoD doesn't show/prove anything. The difference has nothing to do with hardware, the game companies' decision of how much quality they wanted to achieve in their graphics. Compare the same game on both platforms. While the PC version will still look better, the difference will be marginal.
> 
> And even besides that, you would probably have to spend a lot more than the new Xbox will cost to run Crysis 3 at max settings. So, there's that.
> Not saying this article is accurate, but as a reference point, it says to run Crysis 3 on "High Performance Settings" (Note that it doesn't say "Max Settings"), you'll need a setup that consists of something like an i7 2600, and a GTX 680. So, that alone can easily net over $600 (Assuming the the Xbox is at that price point), not to mention the rest of the components you need...
> 
> And Spirit, rendering a static 3D model isn't really comparable rendering a virtual world with numerous animated objects.



Too bad that component talk is a mute point since game devs said it is weaker than the ps4 which is like a 2ghz fx8 series with a 7850. My friend built a computer equal to these consoles at christmas if not better (6300+7870) for around 7 or 800. And for 100 more he got way more freedom


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## Rit

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-incompatible-with-current-gaming-headsets


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## salvage-this

http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-exe...re-a-generation-ahead-of-top-spec-pcs-6408777


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## Rit

salvage-this said:


> http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-exe...re-a-generation-ahead-of-top-spec-pcs-6408777



Ha, Thanks for the good laugh. :good:


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## spirit

salvage-this said:


> http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-exe...re-a-generation-ahead-of-top-spec-pcs-6408777



Thanks for the laugh: 'EA exec says Xbox One/PS4 are a generation ahead of top-spec PCs'

Really now, eh?


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## jonnyp11

spirit said:


> Thanks for the laugh: 'EA exec says Xbox One/PS4 are a generation ahead of top-spec PCs'
> 
> Really now, eh?



Yup, a 2ghz quad module amd processor and a gpu around a 7850 is definitely better than a 3960X and dual titans or 7990s or 690s


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## Rit




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## spirit

jonnyp11 said:


> Yup, a 2ghz quad module amd processor and a gpu around a 7850 is definitely better than a 3960X and dual titans or 7990s or 690s



Absolutely! 

That guy at EA must have been paid to say that surely?


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## salvage-this

I was wondering when that statement would turn into a gif.



spirit said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> That guy at EA must have been paid to say that surely?



He might just be an EA employee.  They are not really known for being the brightest bulbs.


I found this kinda interesting

http://gizmodo.com/xbox-one-all-the-nerdy-details-you-dont-know-yet-509381624


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## Aastii

This... This I love 

[UT]KbWgUO-Rqcw#![/UT]


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## spirit

Aastii said:


> This... This I love
> 
> [UT]KbWgUO-Rqcw#![/UT]



Ah yes. Seen that. 

Seems like the Xbox One is great if you like TV, sport and Call of Duty... so it's definitely not for me!


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## wbt50

Aastii said:


> This... This I love
> 
> [UT]KbWgUO-Rqcw#![/UT]



Ahahhahaha, that's quality that is.


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## Troncoso

I enjoyed this a little:


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## PCunicorn

Troncoso said:


> I enjoyed this a little:



Lol


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## CrazyMike

Here's my input:

For me, I like the looks of the new Xbox One. Like the fact that it's a digital TV device. Has a Blue-Ray. That's where it ends. I was actually considering buying one, not for gaming thought. Here a digital cable box costs approx $300. So it would make more sense to buy this Xbox to do this and more. But with all the other bullshit that comes with it; the "on for updates" once a day, the whole xbox used gaming crap, and others ; I actually don't watch tv that much to justify it. I wish I could just use my tuner card in my computer, but I think that will never happen 

I won't be buying a Playstation nor a Xbox One. To me they are both crap. I do however very much like Playstation's minatory demo idea. Freaking amazing and should be brought to the PC as well.


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## Hyper_Kagome

Working in my store I've been asked countless times already "What do you think about the Xbox One?"
This question came to me Friday night from a group of fairly friendly guys who were buying Xbox 360 games. I looked at them and told them quite honestly that I think Microsoft is making a huge mistake. Several mistakes.
And this has NOTHING to do with the computing power of PC's, I'm talking strictly console, as this is what is it... A CONSOLE.

1. The supposed mandatory check-in that the system will have to preform once every twenty-four hours. What about those that are out in an area with low internet support as it is? What if your internet connection breaks and stops working for a long period of time? I guess you can't play your stuff after that twenty-four hour mark. I'm assuming this is to take place of the lack of Online Passes. Along with the whole MSRP for games you leave at your friends, if they pop them in to play them, etc. While there is said to be a method in the mix for trading in digital licences from the bought games, still making them able to be traded, it's hard to say how exactly how that will work. We haven't been told at a store level as I suspect that they're still working very closely with Inventory and Tech with certain gaming retailers. 

2. Rumoured no support for third-party headsets. Say goodbye to your Astros, your Tritton, your Turtle Beach. Proprietary, bitches!

3. YAY BLU-RAY DRIVE!!1!!!1one!

4. We put TV into your Xbox One... but only if you already have a preexisting cable box. Luls. (So screw the rest of you.) 

5. WHO WANTS A KINECT THAT CAN SEE IN THE DARK. REALLY?! REALLY. That's some scary shit, guys. Scary shit. It can identify you... it's ALWAYS on. Have fun with that.

6. Profit?


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## zeppelin04

I am interested to see what comes of this system.  I haven't watched the video from the reveal and have only gone off what I have read after.  So far much of it does not sound good.  I got rid of my kinect shortly after buying it.  Having a video camera pointed at me all day didn't sit well with me.

Having been playing xbox for the last 5 years I may switch back to sony if I dive into the new systems.  Although the PS4 may turn out no better.


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## spirit

I don't know anybody who is going to be buying the One. I think the PS4 may win this round in the ongoing 'console battle' but I won't be buying either.


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## Eric4753

I also don't like how you can't trade games or rent them. They go with one console only so goodbye gamefly. I feel xbox is trying to force us into a internet world when it isn't ready.


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## spirit

Troncoso said:


> I enjoyed this a little:


Ah… but is a PC running Windows 7 7 times better than the Xbox One and a PC running Windows 8 8 times better than the Xbox One and twice as good as the PS4?


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## salvage-this




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## spirit

2000 times better than an Xbox One, eh?


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## Shlouski

I'm not a console hater, but is this seriously the design of the xbox one? Did they get their inspiration from an old VHS machine, maybe they are going for the retro look?


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## Shane

Shlouski said:


> I'm not a console hater, but is this seriously the design of the xbox one? Did they get their inspiration from an old VHS machine, maybe they are going for the retro look?



I actually like it,Its minimalistic and clean looking. 

The only thing that's bothering me about the Xbox one..they're forcing the Kinect on people..you can only buy a console that comes with one as a package = pumping up the price.

I have no interest in the Kinect at all,So we should be given the choice in a console without the Kinect for a lower price...maybe in the future this will change.


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## Shlouski

Nevakonaza said:


> I actually like it,Its minimalistic and clean looking.
> 
> The only thing that's bothering me about the Xbox one..they're forcing the Kinect on people..you can only buy a console that comes with one as a package = pumping up the price.
> 
> I have no interest in the Kinect at all,So we should be given the choice in a console without the Kinect for a lower price...maybe in the future this will change.



If people like it then fair enough, its just me then


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## Geoff

Eric4753 said:


> I also don't like how you can't trade games or rent them. They go with one console only so goodbye gamefly. I feel xbox is trying to force us into a internet world when it isn't ready.


You can sell and trade games, it would just be a pain because you have to remove it from your account first.  Honestly though this wouldn't effect me, as I only buy new games and don't trade.


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## Hyper_Kagome

Eric4753 said:


> I also don't like how you can't trade games or rent them. They go with one console only so goodbye gamefly. I feel xbox is trying to force us into a internet world when it isn't ready.





WRXGuy1 said:


> You can sell and trade games, it would just be a pain because you have to remove it from your account first.  Honestly though this wouldn't effect me, as I only buy new games and don't trade.




Geoff is right. They are working on ways to trade games (but from what I've heard, make it so the devs/publishers still get a cut), and as stated it would required removing the digital "code" that is linked to your account making it a one system only deal. Nothing has been hinted on HOW this will work with retailers though, and likely won't be until E3 or sometime after E3.

I'm just hoping they sit down and rethink some of their current decisions before release. Sony must be sitting pretty right now.


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## spirit

I'm finding that a lot of companies are going with the attitudes 'it's our way or the highway' and giving the end user no options but to adopt to what they want. I agree with Hyper above, I think they do need to do some rethinking. Everybody I've spoken to who is interested in purchasing a next generation console is avoiding the Xbox One.


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## mihir

I have never been a fan of the XBOX. But the new XBOX is just plain ridiculous. It actually makes the PS4 look a ton better because Sony did not add anything extra other than the usual system upgrade, but Sony also took out backward compatibility, but still people cheered Sony's announcement, because of what XBOX ONE did. 

And the XBOX ONE is clearly not taken into account other countries who offer a huge market as well. Take India for instance, where the average internet speed is 1Megabit per second, and stable internet connections with unlimited download, and even devices like wireless routers are difficult to find at people's homes. So why would anyone in India go for an Xbox One over the Playstation 4. Even a millionaire in India would struggle to maintain an Xbox One, because of its Internet requirements, which can only be satisfied say in like 4-5 cities in the country. It is plain stupidity by Microsoft.


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## Hyper_Kagome

mihir said:


> I have never been a fan of the XBOX. But the new XBOX is just plain ridiculous. It actually makes the PS4 look a ton better because Sony did not add anything extra other than the usual system upgrade, but Sony also took out backward compatibility, but still people cheered Sony's announcement, because of what XBOX ONE did.
> 
> And the XBOX ONE is clearly not taken into account other countries who offer a huge market as well. Take India for instance, where the average internet speed is 1Megabit per second, and stable internet connections with unlimited download, and even devices like wireless routers are difficult to find at people's homes. So why would anyone in India go for an Xbox One over the Playstation 4. Even a millionaire in India would struggle to maintain an Xbox One, because of its Internet requirements, which can only be satisfied say in like 4-5 cities in the country. It is plain stupidity by Microsoft.



Microsoft is catering to American's at this point. I should say big city North Americans. Mattiuk (or whatever his name was) pretty much flat out said thy for people without the Internet to support a One.. "We have a system for those people, the Xbox 360."

And Sony hasn't had backwards compatibility since the very first runs of 60s and 80s, but Gaikai should hopefully be able to offer something for playing older stuff, and PS3.


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## Technology

OMGGGGGGGGG wOOOOOP=D


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## Turbo10

Hyper_Kagome said:


> Microsoft is catering to American's at this point. I should say big city North Americans. Mattiuk (or whatever his name was) pretty much flat out said thy for people without the Internet to support a One.. "We have a system for those people, the Xbox 360."
> 
> And Sony hasn't had backwards compatibility since the very first runs of 60s and 80s, but Gaikai should hopefully be able to offer something for playing older stuff, and PS3.



Pretty much, baseball basketball and american football or whatever it was they were advertising, and all this cable tv integration. Cable is rarely used outside of North America and nobody gives a monkeys about those sports.

Plus it's only coming to 21 countries and they've left out around half of Europe out of it :/ Portugal, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Croatia, Cyprus, Malta etc etc, it's ridiculous


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## spirit

Turbo10 said:


> Pretty much, baseball basketball and american football or whatever it was they were advertising, and all this cable tv integration. Cable is rarely used outside of North America and nobody gives a monkeys about those sports.


This is another problem with the Xbox One. It's aimed at Americans who want to watch TV. I'm sure most Americans can watch TV without spending hundreds of bucks on the new Xbox though.


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## jonnyp11

Yup, you can get a box from the cable company, but they charge monthly fees, even the basicones cost like 11 or more a month though which is BS when you already spend a crap load on packages and hd boxes (our tv andinternet is over 200 a month, internet is like 50ish i believe)


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## spirit

I think the problem is Microsoft didn't quite know what they wanted out of the Xbox One. Did they want it to be an entertainment hub? Or a games console? As a result it's kind of ended up as being a bit of both but with some limitations which hinder certain things. :/


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## jonnyp11

spirit said:


> I think the problem is Microsoft didn't quite know what they wanted out of the Xbox One. Did they want it to be an entertainment hub? Or a games console? As a result it's kind of ended up as being a bit of both but with some limitations which hinder certain things. :/



The push for kinect and media says they want it to appeal to everyone, but their efforts to achieve that resulted in turning their backs to their core gamers


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## Justin

almost spat soda on my computer.


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## spirit

Haha that's epic!


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## M1kkelZR

haha yeah just saw that on facebook at work, I burst out laughing


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## Geoff

adhneywilson said:


> I mostly used to play games that online games mostly. I would like to have details about the latest online games along with the updates in these. Please share some attachment links regarding my request. Thanks in advance.


You must be new to the internet.


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## M1kkelZR

adhneywilson said:


> I mostly used to play games that online games mostly. I would like to have details about the latest online games along with the updates in these. Please share some attachment links regarding my request. Thanks in advance.


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## Turbo10

adhneywilson said:


> I mostly used to play games that online games mostly. I would like to have details about the latest online games along with the updates in these. Please share some attachment links regarding my request. Thanks in advance.


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## spirit

Spammers guys, please don't reply to them.


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## PCunicorn

Look at this:
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update
Thogh it's still $100 more and has worse hardware then the PS4, and requires Kinect, all the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOGaugKpzs


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## zeppelin04

A weaker system that requires kinect in not appealing for an extra $100. Although I heard the ps4 will charge for online play. That levels the playing field slightly. Although I got used to paying for live so that is no deal breaker.  

Besides my PC is built and I have a western digital TV live.  Got all my bases covered. Only losing out on final fantasy in my eyes.


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## spynoodle

PCunicorn said:


> Look at this:
> http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update
> Thogh it's still $100 more and has worse hardware then the PS4, and requires Kinect, all the time.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOGaugKpzs


^This news is definitely big. With some of these restrictions lessened, a lot of people might change their minds. Still, the keyword here is *might*.


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## PCunicorn

zeppelin04 said:


> A weaker system that requires kinect in not appealing for an extra $100. Although I heard the ps4 will charge for online play. That levels the playing field slightly. Although I got used to paying for live so that is no deal breaker.
> 
> Besides my PC is built and I have a western digital TV live.  Got all my bases covered. Only losing out on final fantasy in my eyes.



Yeah but the Xbox will charge to so no it doesn't.


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## zeppelin04

PCunicorn said:


> Yeah but the Xbox will charge to so no it doesn't.



One less plus for the ps4 closes the gap in my eyes.  Either way Sony is far ahead of the Xbox. It will be interesting to see if all the talk is supported by sales figures come the holidays. Xbox may surprise a lot of us and sell very well.


----------



## tech savvy

Eric4753 said:


> I also don't like how you can't trade games or rent them. They go with one console only so goodbye gamefly. I feel xbox is trying to force us into a internet world when it isn't ready.



That is NOT true. Microsoft said there will be no limit on how you use your games, it's going to be the same as now! You can trade, sell, or buy used...nothing changing on that part. 

Also, Microsoft is offering TWO free games a month for Gold Members. If your a member, you can get Fable III now for FREE.


----------



## jamesd1981

I would never have bought the xbox over ps4 anyway, but anyone who ends up buying an xbox now just because microsoft have back tracked is a total mug.

They have not listened and back tracked because they give a damn about their customers, they are only doing it because they could see they were going to get slaughtered by sony.

They were quite happy to try to impose there controls and shaft loyal xbox users, so don`t be a mug and now they have back tracked say aw well that`s ok no harm done, remember the xbox 360 is for offline users comments or how about the claim that drm was built into the console and could not just be switched off, well it seems like it was simple enough to switch off when they had to.


----------



## Troncoso

tech savvy said:


> That is NOT true. Microsoft said there will be no limit on how you use your games, it's going to be the same as now! You can trade, sell, or buy used...nothing changing on that part.
> 
> Also, Microsoft is offering TWO free games a month for Gold Members. If your a member, you can get Fable III now for FREE.



Way to kiss Microsoft ass... the only notable features of the XBox One have been the ones they've ripped off from Sony. Now they have this, which might I add is only for 6 months. This is definitely no competition to Sony's PS+.

And as James said, they give us candy after smacking us in the face, and you just act like they never hit you in the first place.

I don't have a problem with Microsoft, but they make it clear that gaming just isn't their industry.


----------



## Justin

tech savvy said:


> That is NOT true. Microsoft said there will be no limit on how you use your games, it's going to be the same as now! You can trade, sell, or buy used...nothing changing on that part.
> 
> Also, Microsoft is offering TWO free games a month for Gold Members. If your a member, you can get Fable III now for FREE.



He wrote that post waaaaay before they changed their policy on used games.

Also, Microsoft is only offering free games up to the end of the year.


----------



## Okedokey

Rit said:


> Pff... at best it's a HTPC from 5-10 years ago... Same old crap wrapped up in a different designed box.



What are you on about?  It will smoke your PC anyday. 

Its x86 parts, quite modern and coded to the metal.  It will run fine.

The two systems are almost identical inside, same cpu, same ram etc.  Only real difference is GDDR5 in the PS4 (why i don't know) and GDDR3 in the xbox, although the xbox has SRAM (~64mb) used for the swapping between apps.

What im looking forward to is when windows is installed on them for benchmarking.


----------



## Troncoso

Okedokey said:


> What are you on about?  It will smoke your PC anyday.
> 
> Its x86 parts, quite modern and coded to the metal.  It will run fine.
> 
> The two systems are almost identical inside, same cpu, same ram etc.  Only real difference is GDDR5 in the PS4 (why i don't know) and GDDR3 in the xbox, although the xbox has SRAM (~64mb) used for the swapping between apps.
> 
> What im looking forward to is when windows is installed on them for benchmarking.



The CPU isn't the same. The XBox One has some custom Microsoft CPU. We haven't really seen benchmarks to know how it compares to the "Jaguar" processor that the PS4 will use.

Also, XBox has DDR3, not GDDR3.


----------



## spirit

They only got rid of the DRM crap because yeah, they realized the PS4 was going to outsell the Xbox.


----------



## Darren

tech savvy said:


> Also, Microsoft is offering TWO free games a month for Gold Members. If your a member, you can get Fable III now for FREE.



Free copy of Fable 3 isn't really a selling point.

The only reasons I want new consoles as they'll push the envelop for graphics and overall game quality on the PC side as well. A lot of my friends are talking about it and I'm just like "I don't really care as long as my PC graphics look good".

If I was to buy one though it would be the PS4.


----------



## Okedokey

Troncoso said:


> The CPU isn't the same. The XBox One has some custom Microsoft CPU. We haven't really seen benchmarks to know how it compares to the "Jaguar" processor that the PS4 will use.
> 
> Also, XBox has DDR3, not GDDR3.



Nonsense.  Both have an eight core AMD “Jaguar” CPU and secondly the graphics portion uses DDR3, making it GDDR3.  Nothing different to what i said.


----------



## jonnyp11

Xbox has 768 gpu cores and ps4 has 1154, 1.5 times more.

You people all look at this in the wrong light. With the masses on a more capable platform, AI and graphics will take leaps ahead in the next year or 2 since the 99% of their profits will be able to use them. And since devs have said they moved the OSs to a more windows like coding and it is easier to port them around and stuff (think i read something along those lines), devs will be more willing to advance past the capabilities of consoles for computers since it will take less work


----------



## StrangleHold

Looks as if after microsoft drop all the rules, the first day afterward its preorder sales topped the PS.


----------



## StrangleHold

Pretty sure they have the same Jaguar 8 core CPU. Miroshaft can claim there is a custom Microsoft CPU, but I'm sure sony had the same input, which means they are  noting but both custom AMD APU X86/64. Sony has them beat with DDR5 vs. DDR3, but heard the microshaft has lower timming. But sony does have the better GPU.


----------



## tech savvy

Look, yall can say all ya'll want about microsoft, while yall reply using windows, l0l. When you compare the consoles side by side, features vs feature, etc. Xbox One has this generation rapped. Microsoft is trying to combined all what they offer through one seemlessly unit, which is great. 

Everyone is crying over all the extra features Microsoft is bringing to the new Xbox, why?!? I don't get it. Even without the extra features, you still going to get the same game play. The only thing that I can come up with is, if they didnt have all the features it would cost less. What, like $100 less? I'll pay the extra $100 and get all those extra features!

The PS4 has shown nothing remotely interesting.


----------



## Okedokey

Regardless of the differences, the xbox is a lot better than most of the computers on this forum for gaming and secondly, the devs will code for the lowest common denominator.  That being the xbox.  So its a pointless argument.


----------



## spirit

tech savvy said:


> Everyone is crying over all the extra features Microsoft is bringing to the new Xbox, why?!? I don't get it. Even without the extra features, you still going to get the same game play. The only thing that I can come up with is, if they didnt have all the features it would cost less. What, like $100 less? I'll pay the extra $100 and get all those extra features!


Main thing is very few people are actually interested in these features, and since they are being forced on them, they have to pay more.

I wouldn't pay $100 more fore stuff I wasn't going to use.


----------



## mihir

tech savvy said:


> Look, yall can say all ya'll want about microsoft, *while yall reply using windows, l0l.* When you compare the consoles side by side, features vs feature, etc. Xbox One has this generation rapped. Microsoft is trying to combined all what they offer through one seemlessly unit, which is great.
> 
> The PS4 has shown nothing remotely interesting.



WRONG. 



tech savvy said:


> Everyone is crying over all the extra features Microsoft is bringing to the new Xbox, why?!? I don't get it. Even without the extra features, you still going to get the same game play. The only thing that I can come up with is, if they didnt have all the features it would cost less. What, like $100 less? I'll pay the extra $100 and get all those extra features!



And the extra features which escalate the prices are also not needed by many. They should be optional like in all the previous generations. If you are ready to pay $100, you cannot extrapolate it to all the people. In a similar way I cannot extrapolate my desire of not paying the extra $100. But eitherways there are enough people who don't want to spend the extra $100 to get those extra features, to warrant two editions of the XBOX ONE atleast.


----------



## Troncoso

There are hundreds that agree that Sony clearly has the next generation of consoles, but there is always that one guy that is convinced otherwise. That,  or he is just trying to be the underdog because it warrants more attention.


----------



## jonnyp11

Troncoso said:


> There are hundreds that agree that Sony clearly has the next generation of consoles, but there is always that one guy that is convinced otherwise. That,  or he is just trying to be the underdog because it warrants more attention.



This, xbox is weaker (less gpu cores and cpu cores are split between 2 VMs) and you're paying 100 for a kinect that is only used by children, no real games exist to make people want it, it's best hit was fable the journey IIRC and for regular games it was rated like 7 or so i think (granted its cam has gone from 640*480 to 1080p).

The one thing microsoft did right that i see is they bought all the exclusive games so they look better, but sony will come back with more great games.


----------



## tech savvy

I think why they are charging $499 for the Xbox One is because of the Kinect that comes with it. 

I do agree, they should sell the Kinect separately, to drop the price down to $449-399. The Kinect should be an option add-on, not mandatory. I will probably use the Kinect very little, and woundnt get it if it was sold separately. 

But back to Xbox One vs PS4. Look, I watched both reveils, Xbox One and PS4, and from what I seen, Xbox One is ahead. Now, don't get wrong, before I show the reveil for the Xbox One, I was set on getting the PS4, do to me thinking Microsoft isnt bringing anything new to the table, but I was wrong.

They both offer great grahics, design, and features. But... the Xbox just offers alot more, and appeal to a bigger audience. They made it that way so gamers and non-gamers can both get something out of it, let it be for movies, music, DVR...you know, HTPC.


----------



## Troncoso

tech savvy said:


> They made it that way so gamers and non-gamers can both get something out of it, let it be for movies, music, DVR...you know, HTPC.



That's a flaw. Microsoft is always about trying to please everyone with every product they release. It works fine for Windows, because everyone uses a computer now. The XBox is a GAMING console. Not an HTPC. You can buy products to be an HTPC for less than the XBox One, so there is no reason for non-gamers to buy it. The fact that they are pushing those useless features so hard (TV, Sports, blah blah) is hurting them more than helping. Gamers want content that applies to games and enhances their gaming experience. No one cares that you can watch movies on it, because you can watch movies on any device that can connect to the Internet. And TV? Well, that's what...you know...cable is for.

As I said before, Microsoft is not a company that should be in the gaming industry. They clearly don't understand the user base well enough to please them.


----------



## Hyper_Kagome

StrangleHold said:


> Looks as if after microsoft drop all the rules, the first day afterward its preorder sales topped the PS.



I can GUARANTEE that the Xbox One pre-orders are NOWHERE close to the Playstation 4's, even after the 180 they took.

Nowhere close.
Yes pre-orders have increased, but not dramatically. And they won't for awhile. They made their change yes, but too late in my opinion. They lost their footing and it'll take a while to gain that ground back. A couple days after orders started and I'm sure they'd have been fine.
But over a week after orders started? They were too slow, and due to that lost a lot of ground.

Order ratios are EASILY 3:1, if not more.


----------



## Okedokey

Hyper_Kagome said:


> I can GUARANTEE that the Xbox One pre-orders are NOWHERE close to the Playstation 4's, even after the 180 they took.
> 
> Nowhere close.
> Yes pre-orders have increased, but not dramatically. And they won't for awhile. They made their change yes, but too late in my opinion. They lost their footing and it'll take a while to gain that ground back. A couple days after orders started and I'm sure they'd have been fine.
> But over a week after orders started? They were too slow, and due to that lost a lot of ground.
> 
> Order ratios are EASILY 3:1, if not more.



Based on what?  The side of the bed you woke up on?

Xbox One preorders jump past PlayStation 4 after Microsoft drops DRM


----------



## Hyper_Kagome

Okedokey said:


> Based on what?  The side of the bed you woke up on?
> 
> Xbox One preorders jump past PlayStation 4 after Microsoft drops DRM



Company pre-orders based on a store-by-store basis on the North Side of the US Border. 
And very TIGHT allocation to start off with via Microsoft.

Smartass. 

Also note is states only AMAZON's numbers.
I'd be surprised if Amazon can cover all orders after all is said and done seeing as the One has been heavily allocated to walk-in retailers. If they can, good on 'em.


----------



## Okedokey

Hyper_Kagome said:


> Company pre-orders based on a store-by-store basis on the North Side of the US Border.
> And very TIGHT allocation to start off with via Microsoft.
> 
> Smartass.
> 
> Also note is states only AMAZON's numbers.
> I'd be surprised if Amazon can cover all orders after all is said and done seeing as the One has been heavily allocated to walk-in retailers. If they can, good on 'em.



So mate, you saying that without any proof whatsoever, even though I have provide evidence to the contrary, you're guess is right?  Ok. LOL!

Please provide any scrap of evidence that PS4 is selling (preorder) higher numbers let alone the 3:1 ratio that you pulled out of your backside.


----------



## PabloTeK

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS...jor-Online-Retailers-Over-Xbox-One-56776.html

Hmm... Microsoft dropped the PR ball somewhat and let Sony pick it up and run off into the sunset with it t'would appear. Being that the consoles are actually technically quite similar, the PR is what is going to swing this and Microsoft made a bit of a faux pas on that bit...


----------



## Okedokey

PabloTeK said:


> http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS...jor-Online-Retailers-Over-Xbox-One-56776.html
> 
> Hmm... Microsoft dropped the PR ball somewhat and let Sony pick it up and run off into the sunset with it t'would appear. Being that the consoles are actually technically quite similar, the PR is what is going to swing this and Microsoft made a bit of a faux pas on that bit...



Your reference:16 June

My reference: 3 days old.


----------



## Aastii

Okedokey said:


> So mate, you saying that without any proof whatsoever, even though I have provide evidence to the contrary, you're guess is right?  Ok. LOL!
> 
> Please provide any scrap of evidence that PS4 is selling (preorder) higher numbers let alone the 3:1 ratio that you pulled out of your backside.



She works for a games retailer in Canada. Whilst it is only one sample of stores, other chains wont be too dissimilar, so it is hardly "pulled from her backside". I would believe that there is a large allocation to stores as she states, as it should be known to be so by someone that deals with them, so it would be a little selective to only look at online sales from a single vendor just for the sake of "proving" a point.


----------



## Hyper_Kagome

Okedokey said:


> So mate, you saying that without any proof whatsoever, even though I have provide evidence to the contrary, you're guess is right?  Ok. LOL!
> 
> Please provide any scrap of evidence that PS4 is selling (preorder) higher numbers let alone the 3:1 ratio that you pulled out of your backside.



Amazon.COM has even sold out of the LAUNCH PS4, whereas the Xbox One has not, unless it just recently has. Annnnnd I could post photographic evidence from HO communications from the many various numbers that CEO, PA, Buyers, RM, DM, and whatnot send... buuuuuuut I'd rather not risk my job and position.

-----v



Aastii said:


> She works for a games retailer in Canada. Whilst it is only one sample of stores, other chains wont be too dissimilar, so it is hardly "pulled from her backside". I would believe that there is a large allocation to stores as she states, as it should be known to be so by someone that deals with them, so it would be a little selective to only look at online sales from a single vendor just for the sake of "proving" a point.



And thank you Aastii. I appreciate it.

Let's not forget all other retailers:
Amazon.ca
Newegg.com/ca
EB Games
Gamestop
Target
Best Buy
Future Shop
Independent Game Stores (most locally owned) IF they can get any confirmation on launch consoles.
Walmart
Game UK
And various other places.

And my store alone?
Triple digits PS4, double digits Xbox One (BELOW 40).

Die hard Sony/Microsoft/ PC "Master Race" make me shake my head. Even when faced with truth they still seem to stand strong and disbelieve everything else other than their own findings.


----------



## jonnyp11

Ummmm....pc shouldnt be included in the last bit as it isnt a diehard fan thing, it IS the master race.


----------



## Hyper_Kagome

jonnyp11 said:


> Ummmm....pc shouldnt be included in the last bit as it isnt a diehard fan thing, it IS the master race.



And it is people like you that gives me the particular reasoning for including it.


----------



## jonnyp11

But it is better, it has been able to do everything they will do and more, and my multiple gen old computer is stronger than the one and almost as strong as the ps4


----------



## Troncoso

Yes. It's so much better that developers choose to build games like Halo 4 or The Last of Us for PC.

Oh. They don't. While I like gaming on my PC, it comes with a lot of flaws. That's why consoles exist, so we can have a dedicated gaming medium. You need to stop being so easily influenced by the Internet. 
There is a place and market for everything that these companies make, else they wouldn't make them and they wouldn't be successful, and there wouldn't be a thread about it because no one would care.


----------



## Hyper_Kagome

Troncoso said:


> Yes. It's so much better that developers choose to build games like Halo 4 or The Last of Us for PC.
> 
> Oh. They don't. While I like gaming on my PC, it comes with a lot of flaws. That's why consoles exist, so we can have a dedicated gaming medium. You need to stop being so easily influenced by the Internet.
> There is a place and market for everything that these companies make, else they wouldn't make them and they wouldn't be successful, and there wouldn't be a thread about it because no one would care.



+1. Thank you.


----------



## jonnyp11

I never said there was no point in consoles, it's easier and more convenient at times and more relaxing as most people lay down on the couch or have a nice chair rather than being hunched over. I do get why we have them and that it is the best choice for some people. But console exclusive games are just...frustrating. But i'd much rather take the price of a console, add 3 or 400 that someone'd spend on a new computer, and now you have a beast of a gamer and a super fast computer and only ne thing to mess with rather than 2

And the original comment was meant as more of a joke


----------



## CrazyMike

Hate to interrupt this argument but I was just wondering if any word of Tom Clancy's: Division coming to the PC. Last I heard was that they were thinking about it. Any confirmed reports? I'd love to play the game, but no way am I buying a One or PS4.


----------



## Okedokey

Aastii said:


> She works for a games retailer in Canada. Whilst it is only one sample of stores, other chains wont be too dissimilar, so it is hardly "pulled from her backside". I would believe that there is a large allocation to stores as she states, as it should be known to be so by someone that deals with them, so it would be a little selective to only look at online sales from a single vendor just for the sake of "proving" a point.



Still havent seen any evidence to support the 3:1 ratio.  Nothing.  

And so what if she works for a games retailer!  Whoopdy doo!  Thats an even smaller sample.  

Im saying that whatever the reality, we have a large retailer who has come out and said Xbox one is selling higher numbers and to date no one has provided anything but conjecture to counterpoint.

Thats my point.

Honestly i couldn't care less about the consoles or their sales, I think theyre a blight on the gaming industry, but I just hate it when people pull numbers out of their backside with no evidence and claim its fact.


----------



## Punk

Troncoso said:


> Yes. It's so much better that developers choose to build games like Halo 4 or The Last of Us for PC.
> 
> Oh. They don't. While I like gaming on my PC, it comes with a lot of flaws. That's why consoles exist, so we can have a dedicated gaming medium. You need to stop being so easily influenced by the Internet.
> There is a place and market for everything that these companies make, else they wouldn't make them and they wouldn't be successful, and there wouldn't be a thread about it because no one would care.



exactly, while I enjoy gaming on my PC, a console is better for games. It is made for games after all, PC isn't just for games. I mean in order to keep playing new games at good quality you'll need to buy new components regularly, while you only pay once every five years for an up to date console...


----------



## PCunicorn

I completely disagree. Consoles nowadays are not just for gaming, either. A PC can game just as good as a console and better, and the flaws it does have are not because a PC isn't made for gaming.


----------



## Punk

PCunicorn said:


> I completely disagree. Consoles nowadays are not just for gaming, either. A PC can game just as good as a console and better, and the flaws it does have are not because a PC isn't made for gaming.



That's true for high end PCs, the cost of a console isn't as big as a good up to date gaming PC.

Console nowadays are either for gaming or for multimedia playing. They shouldn't become like PCs, we already have those.


----------



## Troncoso

PCunicorn said:


> I completely disagree. Consoles nowadays are not just for gaming, either. A PC can game just as good as a console and better, and the flaws it does have are not because a PC isn't made for gaming.



Consoles are designed and built for gaming. That is there purpose. Just because they can do more, doesn't make that not true. And they will always be better for gaming in the long run because their hardware and OS is designed to give the most resources to games, and because devs will always prefer to build games for consoles where they know the exact hardware their games will run on.

As much as I'd love to just have all my games on PC and game only on PC, I know it won't happen. And because I can accept that, I gladly buy into these consoles to play amazing games that will never see their way to PC outside an emulator.


----------



## PCunicorn

I know, and I play Uncharted and The Last Of Us. But, I still way perfer the PC for gaming. Even though it's not "made" for it. And you could get a 4870 5 years ago and not need to upgrade.


----------



## jonnyp11

Punk said:


> That's true for high end PCs, the cost of a console isn't as big as a good up to date gaming PC.
> 
> Console nowadays are either for gaming or for multimedia playing. They shouldn't become like PCs, we already have those.



Mine was built for around 5 or 600 a year and a half ago and is better than the one but a little behind the ps4. And you dont have to upgrade to play the newest games, the only reason the 360 and ps3 lasted was they were on 720p and they had games designed for their hardware so it could still look okay. A decent computer from 7 years ago would do the same pretty much, just low res and low settings


----------



## Troncoso

jonnyp11 said:


> Mine was built for around 5 or 600 a year and a half ago and is better than the one but a little behind the ps4. And you dont have to upgrade to play the newest games, the only reason the 360 and ps3 lasted was they were on 720p and they had games designed for their hardware so it could still look okay. A decent computer from 7 years ago would do the same pretty much, just low res and low settings



So, considering that the PS3 and 360 are 7 years old now, you are saying that a decent computer built around the same time could handle the same games only on low resolutions and settings, were as those consoles could handle them at 720p.

Not to try and sway the conversation one way or another, but, that logic seems extremely flawed.


----------



## jonnyp11

Meant 720p when i said low, my 19" at 1440*900 which is a higher res isnt very good really. Was saying a decent pc from then should still play anything the consoles can.


----------



## PCunicorn

@tronsoco No, but I say every 4 or so years. A GTX 260 was around $200 and still plays BF3 today. Really, a 8800 GTX still plays a lot of games on low, and that isn't to much above the PS3, and is only a year newer.


----------



## Darren

As much of a PC fanboy as I am, PC games on low is not the same as console quality, especially in newer titles.

I love playing my PC but saying that a computer built 7 years ago can run games as well and look as good as a PS3 or 360 is a lie. That's not gonna happen. PC elitism can get pretty annoying after a while, even if it sometimes is founded in truth.


----------



## PCunicorn

Right now? Yes. PS3=PC on low. BF3 is a great example.


----------



## jonnyp11

Yeah the problem is they develop the games specifically for the consoles. For example, consoles are dx9, but on the pc, BF3 requires dx10+. And in some cases, they turn physics and stuff down or off more than you can in the settings


----------



## Okedokey

Hyper_Kagome said:


> ...Even when faced with truth they still seem to stand strong and disbelieve everything else other than their own findings.





http://www.dailygame.net/features/ps4-pre-orders-dropping-hard-at-amazon-except-one


----------



## Punk

PCunicorn said:


> @tronsoco No, but I say every 4 or so years. A GTX 260 was around $200 and still plays BF3 today. Really, a 8800 GTX still plays a lot of games on low, and that isn't to much above the PS3, and is only a year newer.


Games on low isn't what I call gaming, it's exactly what I've been saying, you need to upgrade components to have the same experience as on the consoles.



Okedokey said:


> http://www.dailygame.net/features/ps4-pre-orders-dropping-hard-at-amazon-except-one



Like people have been saying, this is only about Amazon.


----------



## Okedokey

Punk said:


> Games on low isn't what I call gaming, it's exactly what I've been saying, you need to upgrade components to have the same experience as on the consoles.
> 
> 
> 
> Like people have been saying, this is only about Amazon.



Amazon is the one of the biggest retailers in the world and the only information we have so until then its the best information we have.


----------



## Punk

Okedokey said:


> Amazon is the one of the biggest retailers in the world and the only information we have so until then its the best information we have.



I'm not going to take any sides here but it's just ONE of the biggest retailers. Although I do trust Hyper more than you because I've known her on CF for a very long time, I'm not going to take part in this arguing. All I'm going to say is consoles are made for gaming and PC aren't made only for gaming, hence the flaws and the price of having an up to date gaming PC.


----------



## Okedokey

Punk said:


> I'm not going to take any sides here but it's just ONE of the biggest retailers. Although I do trust Hyper more than you because I've known her on CF for a very long time, I'm not going to take part in this arguing. All I'm going to say is consoles are made for gaming and PC aren't made only for gaming, hence the flaws and the price of having an up to date gaming PC.



No one is asking you too.  And your personal trust doesn't have anything to do with it.  Its not about trust or anything personal at all.

Its about evidence. And to date the most up to date evidence available is what is provided.  And that says that xbox is selling stronger.  It certainly doesn't support her 3:1 ration for the PS4.  Which is the whole point.

Bringing it down to 'trust' and length of time is simply silly.  So far the only evidence provided that shows sales of one or the other (btw I couldn't care) is the Amazon numbers.  Much larger and more representative than any shop your friend works at, and to date the only information we have.  Also the idea that because its only Amazon is a red herring.  For that hypothesis to hold true, you have to show something that would indicate that only a particular (therefore stratified) sample of the population will buy there.  I say its random and therefore representative of any other site.  But until then, anything (without evidence) to the contrary is simply conjecture as I said before.

Nothing against anyone personally.


----------



## Punk

I think this is important:



> The Xbox One currently has the top spot on Amazon’s pre-order list, *with various PlayStation 4 SKUs holding multiple spots in the top ten*. This is partially due to the aforementioned rush during E3, but also to PS4 bundles being available whereas Microsoft has only made available the console itself (the Xbox One Day One edition). With news of Xbox One quantities being so limited at launch, there’s now an increased urgency to pre-order the Xbox One if you’re hoping to get at release-day unit. The easiest way to do so is to place your Xbox One pre-order at Amazon.



http://www.dailygame.net/videogames...nch-inventory-to-be-far-greater-than-xbox-one

I wished we had those spot numbers but if Sony has for example spot 2 and 3, it could easily outnumber Xbox One.

But again, this is only on Amazon...


----------



## Okedokey

Again conjecture, could, might, may be, we don't know.  I dont see anything that changes the situation.  And seriously... sayings its only Amazon, makes no sense.  Its a random statistically significant sample.  Much better than any other data we have to date.  So unless you have a verified reason as to why Amazon data is invalid, then, please stop.

What we do know is that based on Amazon figures, xbox is leading.  Fact.


----------



## Troncoso

If you do a little digging into the Amazon top-sellers, you see that the XBox One above PS4 is the "Day One Edition". That's the one that ships to you the day its released. They are still available for order. Sure you can consider that PS4 has bundles still up for pre-order, but xbox doesn't (from what I can tell on Amazon, as that is the only site you seem to trust) so, it's not really fair to consider anything other than the basic launch versions of each console.

PS4 launch edition is sold out, so how can they continue to be ordered to even keep its placed in best-seller?

Now we consider the standard edition of both consoles. The standard edition of the PS4 is in the top 10, where the standard edition XBox One doesn't even make it onto the top 100.

PS4 held the top spot until they sold out of launch versions. Of course the pre-orders would "sharply decline". There are no more to pre-order.

You are blindly posting articles to try and prove your point, when (considering this is the Internet) the information from those authors can easily be stretched, skewed, manipulated, what have you.

I did my own research, and from what I see, the number of pre-orders is simply an inventory issue. Then we looked at the standard edition to see that the PS4 is still in fact being ordered and is vastly ahead of the XBox one standard edition.

Finally, the PS4 launch edition has sold out whereas the XBox One launch edition has not. What does that say? Consider the article Punk posted from the same website as your article saying that there were more PS4 systems for order than XBox one.

A source:
http://www.amazon.com/best-sellers-...=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=00ZR4RYVEA88P6Y0VCK5#1

It is updated hourly, so my information is accurate as of 6/29/2013 11:14 AM EST.


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## PCunicorn

Punk said:


> Games on low isn't what I call gaming, it's exactly what I've been saying, you need to upgrade components to have the same experience as on the consoles.
> 
> 
> 
> Like people have been saying, this is only about Amazon.



I was saying BF3 on consoles looks like low on PC. Brink was the same way, and those are just the games I have played on the PC and PS3. And that is the craziest comment on the thread, "gaming on low isn't what I would all gaming", then how are gaming consoles still referred to GAMING consoles, even though they play games on what would be low on PC. Until the PS4 and Xbox One are out, current consoles are very outdated.


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## Punk

PCunicorn said:


> I was saying BF3 on consoles looks like low on PC. Brink was the same way, and those are just the games I have played on the PC and PS3. And that is the craziest comment on the thread, "gaming on low isn't what I would all gaming", then how are gaming consoles still referred to GAMING consoles, even though they play games on what would be low on PC. Until the PS4 and Xbox One are out, current consoles are very outdated.



You either don't want to see what I wanted to say (be it right or wrong) or you're not thinking while reading...

How can you say you have the same experience when playing at High Res than at Low res? Please come and play on my computer, you'll see what I mean, because PS3 and Xbox360 are still better than my PC. So once again, unless you spent a lot of money on a good gaming PC (which is MORE than for a console) your PC won't give you the same gaming experience as consoles.


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## PCunicorn

I spent roughly $350 on my PS3. I spent roughly $500 on my old PC. Which played games in higher settings? The $500 PC. Yes, its $150 more. But, i spent less then $100 on game
s for my PC and have better and more games then the PS3 with $200 on games. And, what are you talking about wuth res? The average PC gamers res is 1080p, and thats the same with a console.
Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocVyrtcTpHw


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## salvage-this

settings might enhance the experience but it is not the end all of whether or not you are gaming.

are you playing a game?  yes.  you are gaming.  

/end stupid gaming vs not gaming argument.


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## PCunicorn

PCunicorn said:


> I spent roughly $350 on my PS3. I spent roughly $500 on my old PC. Which played games in higher settings? The $500 PC. Yes, its $150 more. But, i spent less then $100 on game
> s for my PC and have better and more games then the PS3 with $200 on games. And, what are you talking about wuth res? The average PC gamers res is 1080p, and thats the same with a console.
> Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocVyrtcTpHw



Also:
http://n4g.com/news/866997/battlefield-3-pc-on-low-is-console-settings-says-dice#c-5952993
Well I guess you are not "GAMING" on a console with BF3.


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## jonnyp11

salvage-this said:


> settings might enhance the experience but it is not the end all of whether or not you are gaming.
> 
> are you playing a game?  yes.  you are gaming.
> 
> /end stupid gaming vs not gaming argument.



It's like saying old games arent games because they dont look pretty, or a new game that sucks is better than half life because it's prettier


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## salvage-this

If graphics were the most important thing, we would all just watch benchmarks all day.


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## PCunicorn

There is one pciture to describe us:





Punk is the dirty console peasant


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## Okedokey

PCunicorn said:


> I spent roughly $350 on my PS3. I spent roughly $500 on my old PC. Which played games in higher settings? The $500 PC. Yes, its $150 more. But, i spent less then $100 on game
> s for my PC and have better and more games then the PS3 with $200 on games. And, what are you talking about wuth res? The average PC gamers res is 1080p, and thats the same with a console.
> Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocVyrtcTpHw



This is false logic.  You're assuming that everytime someone wants to play the latest games, they have to upgrade or throw out their pc.  BS.  They take out an old graphics card (e.g. GTX560ti) and get $100 for it on ebay, and spend a further $200 (every 2 years) to have $300 graphics card which will own any console.

Also most games are rendered in 780p or lower and are upscaled to 1080p (requireing an expenesive HDMI cable).  Most (if not all) don't.  Even then you're at 30FPS which is poo.


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## Hyper_Kagome

PCunicorn said:


> There is one pciture to describe us:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Punk is the dirty console peasant*



Really? Really? See this is what I don't like about PC enthusiasts. Thinking they're better and above everyone and everything else.

I play on consoles AND PC. Consoles I enjoy for simplicity and more choice. Computers I like for their own exclusives.

Gaming is gaming. Simple as that. Who cares about graphics?
I happen to love LOVE LOVE Corpse Party, a PSP game, which is only 16 bit in graphics.

Also, thank you *Troncoso*. Thank you thank you.


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## Okedokey

Hyper_Kagome said:


> Really? Really? See this is what I don't like about PC enthusiasts. Thinking they're better and above everyone and everything else.
> 
> I play on consoles AND PC. Consoles I enjoy for simplicity and more choice. Computers I like for their own exclusives.
> 
> Gaming is gaming. Simple as that. Who cares about graphics?
> I happen to love LOVE LOVE Corpse Party, a PSP game, which is only 16 bit in graphics.
> 
> Also, thank you *Troncoso*. Thank you thank you.



You're on a Computer Forum.  lol  Who cares about graphics?  We do.  Thats why the guys talk about it and spend coin on it.


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## Hyper_Kagome

Okedokey said:


> You're on a Computer Forum.  lol  Who cares about graphics?  We do.  Thats why the guys talk about it and spend coin on it.



I'm aware of where I am, thanks. I'm plenty capable of reading. And I care/don't care. I can care about graphics enough to appreciate 16bit right up to maxed graphics on a top line PC.

It never hurts to keep horizons open.
And it's more than just a 'guy' thing.


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## Okedokey

Lol playing the gender card really?  In most english speaking cultures 'guys' is a collective term for everyone, like how are you guys?, etc etc.  Give me a break.  Also, i would estimate that 99% of the people here are male.  But anyway ive already tried to take the personal approach out of this.... sheesh.

Secondly consoles are an absolute blight on the gaming community, holding back innovation and graphics quality for years.  So if you're defending multinational billion dollar companies, you wont get sympathy from me.  

im just happy they've moved to x86, because within days of release someone will have it running windows and then it will just be a computer that you cannot upgrade easily.  Consoles are boat anchors on the gaming community, have been for ages.

and finally... in regards to your sig, i lol'd hard at that.  EVERY pom ive met wants to live in Australia, hahahha, prison my arse - we truly are the most free culture in history - theres a reason why its called the _lucky country_.


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## Punk

Okedokey said:


> This is false logic.  You're assuming that everytime someone wants to play the latest games, they have to upgrade or throw out their pc.  BS.  They take out an old graphics card (e.g. GTX560ti) and get $100 for it on ebay, and spend a further $200 (every 2 years) to have $300 graphics card which will own any console.
> 
> Also most games are rendered in 780p or lower and are upscaled to 1080p (requireing an expenesive HDMI cable).  Most (if not all) don't.  Even then you're at 30FPS which is poo.



Exactly, that's AT LEAST 200$ every two year to keep a computer up to date. Can't say the same about consoles...

I bought a 550$ computer two years ago and I can't play some games that came in 2010 like Crisys or L.A. Noire because my graphic card isn't good enough. GTA IV, Just Cause 2 are horrible to play in low res. A console (PS3 or Xbox360) would play all of them easily. 



PCunicorn said:


> There is one pciture to describe us:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Punk is the dirty console peasant



This just shows how intelligent you are...


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## jonnyp11

Punk said:


> Exactly, that's AT LEAST 200$ every two year to keep a computer up to date. Can't say the same about consoles...
> 
> I bought a 550$ computer two years ago and I can't play some games that came in 2010 like Crisys or L.A. Noire because my graphic card isn't good enough. GTA IV, Just Cause 2 are horrible to play in low res. A console (PS3 or Xbox360) would play all of them easily.
> 
> 
> 
> This just shows how intelligent you are...



i built mine just over a year ago for 5-600, and it is still maxing almost everything at 1440*900 and it is stronger than the One sso it should go for a while longer


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## Troncoso

jonnyp11 said:


> i built mine just over a year ago for 5-600, and it is still maxing almost everything at 1440*900 and it is stronger than the One sso it should go for a while longer



You very clearly don't understand the difference in architecture and how the hardware is used.


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## PCunicorn

Guys, it's a computer forum. You have to be idiots to not understand why we are defending Pcs.


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## Darren

PCunicorn said:


> Guys, it's a computer forum. You have to be idiots to not understand why we are defending Pcs.



Just because you support computers doesn't mean you have to be an ass about it and total oblivious to the fact that keeping a gaming ready computer consistently running for 7 years is going to cost you more than a console. Plain and simple. The cost comes with perks like better graphics and cheaper games, but you'd be lying if you think a gaming PC is going to be cheaper than a console for the same quality for that period of time.


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## Punk

denther said:


> just because you support computers doesn't mean you have to be an ass about it and total oblivious to the fact that keeping a gaming ready computer consistently running for 7 years is going to cost you more than a console. Plain and simple. The cost comes with perks like better graphics and cheaper games, but you'd be lying if you think a gaming pc is going to be cheaper than a console for the same quality for that period of time.



thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnk youuuuuu!


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## Okedokey

Denther said:


> Just because you support computers doesn't mean you have to be an ass about it and total oblivious to the fact that keeping a gaming ready computer consistently running for 7 years is going to cost you more than a console. Plain and simple. The cost comes with perks like better graphics and cheaper games, but you'd be lying if you think a gaming PC is going to be cheaper than a console for the same quality for that period of time.



Which is the same as saying, consoles which are sub par on release, only get updated every 7 years, so the $400 or $500 you spend on your console is immediately obsolete and you will be forced to suffer for 7 years of crappy graphcis, restricted HUD and expensive games. 

Oh ok, yes you're right.  What were we thinking?


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## Darren

Okedokey said:


> Which is the same as saying, consoles which are sub par on release, only get updated every 7 years, so the $400 or $500 you spend on your console is immediately obsolete and you will be forced to suffer for 7 years of crappy graphcis, restricted HUD and expensive games.
> 
> Oh ok, yes you're right.  What were we thinking?



Uhm. What.

Your sentence is so convoluted I can't quite understand what you're trying to say. But I'll attempt to respond.

How is a console obsolete on launch? Obsolete to what? A gaming computer? Not really. You spend 400 (hell even 500) dollars on a gaming computer at the release date of the new PS4 and I can guarantee you for starts it won't perform as well or look as good as console, and also 6 years down the line at the end of it's life time the computer will be limping along trying to keep up while the console will be still playing new releases just fine.

Yes a good computer will always have better graphics than a console, but it's also a helluva lot more expensive in the first place to get there and expensive to maintain. Yes a PC has cheaper games but that's a function of how they're distributed more than anything else. As for your HUD comment that's really hit and miss depending on the game. 


-Sincerely an avid PC gamer


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## PCunicorn

Denther said:


> Just because you support computers doesn't mean you have to be an ass about it and total oblivious to the fact that keeping a gaming ready computer consistently running for 7 years is going to cost you more than a console. Plain and simple. The cost comes with perks like better graphics and cheaper games, but you'd be lying if you think a gaming PC is going to be cheaper than a console for the same quality for that period of time.


I'm not. I started fine, it's them who are being oblivious lol.


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## Punk

PCunicorn said:


> I'm not. I started fine, it's them who are being oblivious lol.



Hmm you haven't grown up a bit. Still the same Byteninja we knew.

This discussion is like two people talking but not listening.

"Yeah graphics can be awesome on computers but it's definitely more expansive to keep it up than consoles"
Answer:

"Yeah computers are better the graphics are better on PC than on consoles".


----------



## spirit

Could have guessed from the minute this thread started that it would end up in a 'PC vs console' debate/argument.

Anybody want a 'PC vs Mac' thread?


----------



## Punk

spirit said:


> Could have guessed from the minute this thread started that it would end up in a 'PC vs console' debate/argument.
> 
> Anybody want a 'PC vs Mac' thread?



It'll be Geoff vs CF


----------



## voyagerfan99

Punk said:


> It'll be Geoff vs CF



Ahem.... 

Posted from my MacBook running OSX 10.8.4


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## Punk

voyagerfan99 said:


> Posted from my MacBook running OSX 10.8.4



Only Apple users would post such informations... But that is another discussion


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## spirit

spirit said:


> Anybody want a 'PC vs Mac' thread?


"Posted from my PC running Windows 8 Enterprise x64."


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## Hyper-Threaded

spirit said:


> "Posted from my PC running Windows 8 Enterprise x64."



"Posted from my Mac G3 power pc 600mhz running OS X 10.3.3"


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## Hyper_Kagome

*Simply just posted.*


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## jonnyp11

Posting from iOS 5.1.1 cuz apple abandons you after a couple years


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## voyagerfan99

Here you are Ashley


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## Hyper_Kagome

voyagerfan99 said:


> Here you are Ashley




How I wish I could have cake. Right now.
RIGHT. NOW.


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## voyagerfan99

Hyper_Kagome said:


> How I wish I could have cake. Right now.
> RIGHT. NOW.



I sent you one for your birthday! I guess Canada Post lost it


----------

