# My $800 budget gaming pc.. please help!



## Adam Murray

Hey guys,

I'm looking to build a gaming computer with the following parts...  Please let me know what you think about my parts I picked and if this is a well balanced out machine.  Thanks!!

I also plan on upgrading the ram from 1GB to 2GB if I am able to for not too much more in price.

AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Venice 2000MHz HT 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor - Retail ($143)
XFX GeForce 7900 GT (470MHz) 256MB PV-T71G-UDF7 Video Card - Retail ($251)
Crucial Ballistix 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM System Memory - Retail ($101)
ASUS A8N-SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail ($126)
Super-Flower Extremely Silent TT-550SS 550W Power Supply w/ 4 LED Fans ($40)
Thermaltake CL-P0200 Silent 939 K8 - AMD K8 solution w/ Heatpipe Cooling Tech - Retail ($35)
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM ($86)
Some DVD-ROM/CDRW Drive ($35)

Total = $817


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## YEA_PC_PHONICS

looks good. im sure the stock cooling would be fine though. What are you doing for a case?


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## rahving

Looks very good so far.  The only thing I would change though is getting 1 stick of 1GB memory instead of 2X512.  Not a big deal, just something I would do if it didn't cost much more.


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## Motoxrdude

rahving said:
			
		

> Looks very good so far.  The only thing I would change though is getting 1 stick of 1GB memory instead of 2X512.  Not a big deal, just something I would do if it didn't cost much more.


Eh, i wouldn't. If you get 2 sticks of 512mb, then in the future when you upgrade your ram, you will have one ram slot less.


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## rahving

Huh?


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## Adam Murray

I already have the case I'm using...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119068

I don't think motoxrdude read what you typed correctly..  but I do agree that I should get a 1GB stick instead of two 512..   I was thinking about going ahead and getting 2GB of ram, but I might have to wait, so I will at least get the 1GB stick so it'll be easier to upgrade later.

Anyone else have any opinions on the parts before I order them?  What about the graphics card & processor selections?


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## Motoxrdude

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> I already have the case I'm using...
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119068
> 
> I don't think motoxrdude read what you typed correctly..  but I do agree that I should get a 1GB stick instead of two 512..   I was thinking about going ahead and getting 2GB of ram, but I might have to wait, so I will at least get the 1GB stick so it'll be easier to upgrade later.
> 
> Anyone else have any opinions on the parts before I order them?  What about the graphics card & processor selections?


Lol oops. I though he said do instead of don't.


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## fade2green514

get 2gb of ram... with a 7900gt you'll want the highest video quality possible.
with 256mb and 1gb of memory you won't be able to max out quake 4... ultra quality takes up a lot of memory.
if you don't really care too much about that, then that's fine too lol
i'd also go with AM2 or a conroe instead of a 939 processor.
another thing to note is that ddr memory is more expensive than ddr2 memory now, so if you plan on making this rig last you may want to get 2gb of memory anyways, because regular ddr memory will probably raise in price between now and when you'll want 2gb... this is another reason id get AM2 or a conroe.


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## new vega

*qwerty int got 5|-|!7 on me*

i would use an ati radeon X1800pro or bigger instead of the 7900

i have a 6600gt and my bros radeon 9550 keeps up pretty good with mine

ati is pulling ahead of nvidia


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## bigsaucybob

Definitley stick to the 7900GT, it is an excellent card and not very expensive. I would not suggest to change that card, you wont regret it.


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## diduknowthat

Go with an Am2 board/processor and DDR2 memory, it'll allow you to upgrade in the future. Plus, now that the pricecut should be in affect, you can get the X2 3800+ for about 160 bucks. 

Also that powersupply is a POS with only 22amps for 12v and a 20 pin connector. You'll need a better psu with a 24 pin conenctor.


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## Adam Murray

Thanks for all your advice guys...

fade2green- do you have any recommendations for an AM2 or Conroe mobo & cpu for about the same price as I have listed?  A little more in price would be ok too...

liuliuboy recommended getting a X2 3800+ for about $160.. what do you think about that one?

I'll look for a better power supply, but if you guys know of any awesome ones within my price range.. please do tell!  Thanks again!


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## ceewi1

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> I'll look for a better power supply, but if you guys know of any awesome ones within my price range.. please do tell!  Thanks again!


Take a look at the recommendations section of PSU101.


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## Roads

This is the mobo I'll be getting along with my 3800+ X2 in about a week.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131022


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## bball4life

rahving said:
			
		

> Looks very good so far.  The only thing I would change though is getting 1 stick of 1GB memory instead of 2X512.  Not a big deal, just something I would do if it didn't cost much more.





			
				Motoxrdude said:
			
		

> Eh, i wouldn't. If you get 2 sticks of 512mb, then in the future when you upgrade your ram, you will have one ram slot less.


no offence but are you serious, 2x512mb would blow 1x1gb stick out of the water in performance, thanks to a little thing call dual channel.
Please think before you speak, and it doesnt matter about his slots with that mobo, you lose no performance on that mobo when you move to 4 ram slots being used


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## way2evil

you should wait till conroe is released to the public, that is when amd is dropping prices


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## Jet

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103735

X2 3800+ for $169 on Newegg.com


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## Bobo

way2evil said:
			
		

> you should wait till conroe is released to the public, that is when amd is dropping prices


Like maybe yesterday....


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## sam_tcc

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm looking to build a gaming computer with the following parts...  Please let me know what you think about my parts I picked and if this is a well balanced out machine.  Thanks!!
> 
> I also plan on upgrading the ram from 1GB to 2GB if I am able to for not too much more in price.
> 
> AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Venice 2000MHz HT 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor - Retail ($143)
> XFX GeForce 7900 GT (470MHz) 256MB PV-T71G-UDF7 Video Card - Retail ($251)
> Crucial Ballistix 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM System Memory - Retail ($101)
> ASUS A8N-SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail ($126)
> Super-Flower Extremely Silent TT-550SS 550W Power Supply w/ 4 LED Fans ($40)
> Thermaltake CL-P0200 Silent 939 K8 - AMD K8 solution w/ Heatpipe Cooling Tech - Retail ($35)
> Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM ($86)
> Some DVD-ROM/CDRW Drive ($35)
> 
> Total = $817





Check see if they help. 
Cost a little more, but the performance will be lot better.

X2 3800+ ($159.99)
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe ($142.45)
DDR2 2GB PC5400 DUAL OCZ ($129.99AR)


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## bball4life

sam_tcc said:
			
		

> Check see if they help.
> Cost a little more, but the performance will be lot better.
> 
> X2 3800+ ($159.99)
> ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe ($142.45)
> DDR2 2GB PC5400 DUAL OCZ ($129.99AR)


Maybe not the mobo as much but the cpu definately.


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## Adam Murray

sam_tcc said:
			
		

> Check see if they help.
> Cost a little more, but the performance will be lot better.
> 
> X2 3800+ ($159.99)
> ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe ($142.45)
> DDR2 2GB PC5400 DUAL OCZ ($129.99AR)



I checked out the mobo, it looks good...  but why does it have two LAN connections?

Also, bball4life, why wouldnt you recommend this mobo?  Do you/ or anyone else have any suggestions?  Thanks again!


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## bball4life

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> I checked out the mobo, it looks good...  but why does it have two LAN connections?
> 
> Also, bball4life, why wouldnt you recommend this mobo?  Do you/ or anyone else have any suggestions?  Thanks again!


No I am not saying that it is bad, I am just saying for you it may not be worth you spending the extra $20, I have that mobo, well the premium version, its a good mobo.  And as for the 2 lan connections, on for you internet connection and one more for networking would be my guess.


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## way2evil

Bobo said:
			
		

> Like maybe yesterday....



i meant available on newegg but i guess the price got dropped alreay


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## baballin328

I think you should go with a harddrive that has 16mb cache instead of 8mb. Better performance, and right now it's cheaper.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144701


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## bball4life

baballin328 said:
			
		

> I think you should go with a harddrive that has 16mb cache instead of 8mb. Better performance, and right now it's cheaper.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144701


Buy it, Buy it now!!!


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## way2evil

bballin, why do you and the poster above you have very similar names?


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## bball4life

way2evil said:
			
		

> bballin, why do you and the poster above you have very similar names?


No clue.


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## The_Beast

How about this one? Upgrade if needed. Justs needs a case and a psu.

CPU  $200
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103747

CD Drive $40
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827151133

HDD $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822152045

MOBO $150
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131013

RAM $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231022

Video Card $145
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130283


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## bball4life

Looks pretty good to me.  Don't know if you really want to spend all that money on an sli board with a 7600gt unless you plan going sli.


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## diduknowthat

The motherboard's standard memory is DDR2 800, you might want to consider getting that instead of the DDR2 533 you have right now


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## bball4life

liuliuboy said:
			
		

> The motherboard's standard memory is DDR2 800, you might want to consider getting that instead of the DR2 533 you have right now


ya you won't be getting the mobo's full potential with that.


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## Dr Studly

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2000MHz HT 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor - $170
Motherboard: MSI K9N SLI Platinum Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - $130
RAM: pqi TURBO 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) System Memory - $80 (1Gb stick instead of 512x2 to improve upgrading possibilities...)
Video Card:XFX GeForce 7900 GT (470MHz) 256MB PV-T71G-UDF7 Video Card - Retail - $251
Sound Card:Integraded 
Harddrive:Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM ($86)
Optical Drive: get this DVD burner in either Silver, Beige, or Black, depending on what color ur case is - $30
PSU:Super-Flower Extremely Silent TT-550SS 550W Power Supply w/ 4 LED Fans ($40)

* 						GIGABYTE GH-PCU22-VG 2 Ball Blue LED Light CPU Cooling Fan/Heatsink($30*


$817


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## bball4life

Nice


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## The_Beast

Sorry I'm really new to building custom computers. So what is SLI? Isn't SLI just two video cards?



			
				bball4life said:
			
		

> Looks pretty good to me.  Don't know if you really want to spend all that money on an sli board with a 7600gt unless you plan going sli.





OK sorry posted the wrong RAM up.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231063



			
				liuliuboy said:
			
		

> The motherboard's standard memory is DDR2 800, you might want to consider getting that instead of the DDR2 533 you have right now


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## bball4life

The_Number_Of_The_Beast said:
			
		

> Sorry I'm really new to building custom computers. So what is SLI? Isn't SLI just two video cards?


Ya its two video cards, its just most sli boards cost more, and if you have no intentions on going sli, you would be better off saving money on the mobo and putting it towards maybe a little better cpu or gpu.


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## The_Beast

I like to keep my options open.


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## SC7

new vega said:
			
		

> i would use an ati radeon X1800pro or bigger instead of the 7900
> 
> i have a 6600gt and my bros radeon 9550 keeps up pretty good with mine
> 
> ati is pulling ahead of nvidia


Proof?


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## bball4life

The_Number_Of_The_Beast said:
			
		

> I like to keep my options open.


Thats always a good idea.


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## The_Beast

Even if I don't go SLI is it worth the extra money if I ever want to sell it.


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## bball4life

The_Number_Of_The_Beast said:
			
		

> Even if I don't go SLI is it worth the extra money if I ever want to sell it.


I wouldn't go that for, if you may go sli then go for it, but if there is no way you will go sli, you can get the same other features for cheaper.


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## The_Beast

SLI boards are only $20-$40 more. That really isn't that much unless you have a really tight budget.


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## SC7

The_Number_Of_The_Beast said:
			
		

> SLI boards are only $20-$40 more. That really isn't that much unless you have a really tight budget.


I'd still only reccomend getting it if you're positive you will go SLI in the future.  Remember, down the road, it may be more practical to get one single better card, than put a second of an outdated in there.  SLI only offers 30% performance increase max, so a lot of newer models down the road could beat those in SLI.  Plus, he may want DX10 soon.


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## Dr Studly

Encore4More said:
			
		

> Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2000MHz HT 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor - $170
> Motherboard: MSI K9N SLI Platinum Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - $130
> RAM: pqi TURBO 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) System Memory - $80 (1Gb stick instead of 512x2 to improve upgrading possibilities...)
> Video Card:XFX GeForce 7900 GT (470MHz) 256MB PV-T71G-UDF7 Video Card - Retail - $251
> Sound Card:Integraded
> Harddrive:Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM ($86)
> Optical Drive: get this DVD burner in either Silver, Beige, or Black, depending on what color ur case is - $30
> PSU:Super-Flower Extremely Silent TT-550SS 550W Power Supply w/ 4 LED Fans ($40)
> 
> * 						GIGABYTE GH-PCU22-VG 2 Ball Blue LED Light CPU Cooling Fan/Heatsink($30*
> 
> 
> $817


get that... best thing ur gona come up with with ur budget...
anyone wanna 2nd that?


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## kgod86

get the 2 512 and run dual channel


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## SC7

Yea, I'd go for 2x512 for dual channel.  You don't plan on passing 2GB with this machine, do you?


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## bball4life

SC7 said:
			
		

> Yea, I'd go for 2x512 for dual channel.  You don't plan on passing 2GB with this machine, do you?


Ya you will improve performance quite substantially going dual channel.


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## Dr Studly

you will improve performance (by a tiny bit)
but then ur machine will not be as upgradable... if you wan't to upgrade to 2gb later (as you said you wanted to) then u are going upgrade and have 4x512 filling all 4 of your ram slots... it would be better having 2x1024 then 4x512

why? 
1.because ram doesn't run as fast when all 4 slots are filled...
2. when you are going to want to upgrade AGAIN (to 4GB [when that will become standard, and that will come sooner than u think]) you are going to have to rebuy all your ram which is going to cost ALOT of money....


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## bball4life

Encore4More said:
			
		

> why?
> 1.because ram doesn't run as fast when all 4 slots are filled...
> 2. when you are going to want to upgrade AGAIN (to 4GB [when that will become standard, and that will come sooner than u think]) you are going to have to rebuy all your ram which is going to cost ALOT of money....


Not always,
1) if he is only buying 1gb now, then I doubt he will ever upgrade to 4gb in the life of this come
2) not all mobo's make the ram run slower when all 4 slots are filled, just as some sli boards run 8x on both slots in sli, while other boards run both slots at 16x.


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## SC7

Encore4More said:
			
		

> 1.because ram doesn't run as fast when all 4 slots are filled...


An urban legend, not true on almost all modern setups.


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## Bobo

That only happens on a few OEM computers


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## m0nk3ys1ms

Encore's build looks good but I would make changes to the Motherboard, GPU, and PSU.
ASUStek M2N-SLI
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131013
GeForce 7900GT KO
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130033
Asprire 500W PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817148027


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## Bobo

You don't need freakin SLI if he isn't going to ever use it

Here is my build:
 Motherboard--*ASUS M2N-E Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 Ultra MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail*--$98
 CPU--*AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2000MHz HT Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor Model ADA3800IAA5CU - Retail* --$169
 RAM--*CORSAIR XMS2 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model TWIN2X1024A-6400 - Retail*--$104
 GFX--*XFX GeForce 7900 GT (470MHz) 256MB PV-T71G-UDF7 Video Card - Retail*--$251
 HDD--*Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6V250F0 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM* --$80
 Optical--*NEC 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE/ATAPI Model ND-3550A - OEM* --$31
 PSU--*Rosewill RP600V2-S-SL 600W Power Supply - Retail*  --$65 

 Total: $793


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## Dr Studly

bball4life said:
			
		

> Not always,
> 1) if he is only buying 1gb now, then I doubt he will ever upgrade to 4gb in the life of this come


HE DEFINATLY WILL!!!!lol
Ram Gaming Standards:
1999 - 64/128
2000 - 128/256
2001 - 128/256
2002 - 256/512
2003 - 256/512
2004 - 512/1024
2005 - 1024/2048
2006 - 1024/2048
if we continue this is prolly a very just estimate:
2007 - 1024/2048 or possible even 2048/4096
2008 - 2048/4096
as you see it could be a matter of a year and a half...
THINK NOW!
Windows XP came out at the end of 2001 and was standard in 2002 PCs...
Windows XP required at least (no less than) 64MB of RAM and recomends 128... the gaming standard was around 256/512 in 02

Windows Vista requires at least (no less then) 512MB and it recomends 1GB... now lets ratio this out

the gaming standard (for high-end gamers) in 02 was 512MB!!!! the minimum system requirements for the new OS was 64MB... THAT IS 8 TIMES THE OPERATING SYSTEMS *MINIMUM* requirements!!!!


The BARE MINIMUM requirments for Windows Vista is 512MB... what is 8 times 512? *4096*
i would not be suprised if we end 07 with 2048/4096 on future programs... expecially with the other new technology that comes out...

Another anology...  2 Core processors and 2GB memory became common about the same time...
The upcomming year will bring us Quad-Core processors, and i beleive it will also bring about a much more common usage of 4gb memory and programs that will have access to that much memory... also on that note, programs that will be threaded for dual-core and quad-core processors... technology comes FAST... when we look forward we think it is impossible, but when we look back we see that at was possible...

so i think 4gb and prgrams/games that will be able to access large portions of 4gb will come fast especially with the AM3 already getting talked about...



Technology for ram does not slowly inch up MBs at a time, it doubles...


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## X24

ok, so he waits a year, ups it to 2gb, there you got another year or two for that


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## Adam Murray

baballin328 said:
			
		

> I think you should go with a harddrive that has 16mb cache instead of 8mb. Better performance, and right now it's cheaper.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144701


This hard drive looks great and it is at a nice price.. I am going to add it to my parts list...

Encore4More..  Thanks for your suggestions.  I have taken them into consideration and have changed my specs a little.  The only thing I noticed was that you used the same PSU that I had choosen...

Liuliuboy said that "Also that powersupply is a POS with only 22amps for 12v and a 20 pin connector. You'll need a better psu with a 24 pin conenctor."  So I need to try and find a better PSU.   

Below are my new picks for parts so far.. please let me know what you guys think!

MOBO	MSI K9N SLI Platinum Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail 	$130.99	$8.69
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813130048 

CPU	AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2000MHz HT 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor - Retail 	$169.00	$0.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103735 

RAM	pqi TURBO 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) System Memory - Retail 	$95.99	$4.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141062 (I will eventually upgrade to 2GB of ram)		

Video Card	XFX GeForce 7900 GT (470MHz) 256MB PV-T71G-UDF7 Video Card - Retail	$244.89	$6.67
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814150150 

HD	Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM	$72.99	$0.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144701 

PSU	Need Some Help! - Looking to spend around $30-$40

Thermal Coolant	ASUS X-Mars Heat Pipes CPU Light Cooler for Socket 754/939/940 - OEM	$39.99	$4.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835193002
(I wanted to spend about $30 for this part - I had trouble finding ones that would be compatible.. do you guys know of any good/cheaper ones? - Do you think I even need one?)	

DRIVES	Some Standard CD/DVD Drive	$30.00	$5.00

Total w/ shipping = $854.


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## Dr Studly

X24 said:
			
		

> ok, so he waits a year, ups it to 2gb, there you got another year or two for that


*this is my route for him:*
1GB DDR2 1000 - $80

in mebbe 4months he adds in the same RAM and has it running in Dual-Channel... and by then the ram is prolly $65
so then he has

2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 1000 - (spending so far a total of $145 on ram)

then noticing some games are slowing down a bit and seeing future games will be slower, in mebbe the fall of '07 with windows vista out and the possibility of a AM3 upgrade he adds 2x1GB DDR2 1000 (which by then that set would prolly be around $80) so then he has:

4GB (4x1GB) DDR2 1000 - (spending so far a estimated total of $225 on ram..)




*this is your route for him:*
1gb (512x2) DDR2 1000 - $100

in mebbe 4 months he adds 2 more 512x2 sticks... then that pack is prolly around $80... so then he has :

2GB (512x4) DDR2 1000 - (spending so far a estimated total of $180 on RAM)


then noticing some games are slowing down a bit and seeing future games will be slower, in mebbe the fall of '07 with windows vista out and the possibility of a AM3 upgrade he wants 4GB... OOPS!!! to bad no more open slots  
clears out all that ram and buys 2 sets of 2GB (1x2) DDR2 1000 spending around $160... so then he has:

4GB (4x1GB) DDR2 1000 - (spending a total of $330 on ram for that machine just so that it will run a tiny bit faster for the first 4 months )






now that he has seen both 2 routes, let him decide...


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## Bobo

Encore4More said:
			
		

> *this is my route for him:*
> 1GB DDR2 1000 - $80


DDR2 1000 isn't exactly going to work...considering that the motherboard and the processor only support DDR2-800


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## bball4life

Encore well no offence but 2gb is going to be enough ram for a while, especially at ddr2 800 in DUAL CHANNEL, which he won't get with 1 1gb stick. 
And if you look at it you are comparing the min stand now 1gb to the max standart in 2008 4gb.  Doesn't work.


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## Adam Murray

I think I will choose route 1, but with the right type of RAM! lol...

Anyways, please let me know what you think of my updated config I posted above and if you know of any good PSU's... I might go with the one monkeysims suggested... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817148027    or maybe the one bobo suggested - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817182032 - but that one is a little above my price range.


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## Dr Studly

bball4life said:
			
		

> Encore well no offence but 2gb is going to be enough ram for a while


look at how technology has grown and you will see otherwise...



			
				bball4life said:
			
		

> especially at ddr2 800 in DUAL CHANNEL, which he won't get with 1 1gb stick.


for 4months... to save like $120 and have more room for upgrading in the near future (as technology shows us).... when he gets the 2nd 1GB stick in 4months (if he gets the same thing) it will run dual-channel...



			
				bball4life said:
			
		

> And if you look at it you are comparing the min stand now 1gb to the max standart in 2008 4gb.


im not... i am planning out for him to upgrade the best way to the higher standard of 2008





oh and i beleive this is a fairly decent PSU
so are monkeysims and bobo's... this is basically the same as bobo's i beleive, it is just 550Wats instead of 600Watts... and cheaper... and monkeysims is 500Watts, but a good budget move...



oh and one more thing Bball4life... 1gb lasting? Battlefield 2 with its most current updates already lags with 1GB ram dual-channenl...


Edit: everything i said DDR2 1000 i meant DDR2 800... blah, brain fart...


----------



## bball4life

It doesn't matter even if he has 4gb of dual channel ram in two years all the new games are gonna lag, because of the video card, 4gb of dual channel ram and a 7900gt together, you have more ram then is needed with that card, the card is gonna be holding you back.  Go think about what you are saying, read up, do some research before you post again please.


----------



## Dr Studly

bball4life said:
			
		

> It doesn't matter even if he has 4gb of dual channel ram in two years all the new games are gonna lag, because of the video card, 4gb of dual channel ram and a 7900gt together, you have more ram then is needed with that card, the card is gonna be holding you back.  Go think about what you are saying, read up, do some research before you post again please.


i beleive i said something about the possible upgrade of AM3... i meant to add in a note about future video cards... perhaps a new AM3 with new a new AMD video card?
i do no about bottlenecking


----------



## bball4life

Encore4More said:
			
		

> i beleive i said something about the possible upgrade of AM3... i meant to add in a note about future video cards... perhaps a new AM3 with new a new AMD video card?
> i do no about bottlenecking


Upgrade huh, that would mean a new mobo, capable of higher ram speeds, ya that would be for a new build, if you want a gaming comp you really need to rebuild no less then once every 2 years.


----------



## Dr Studly

bball4life said:
			
		

> Upgrade huh, that would mean a new mobo, capable of higher ram speeds, ya that would be for a new build, if you want a gaming comp you really need to rebuild no less then once every 2 years.


nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.... AM3 processors will be compatible with AM2 sockets... and AGP lasted a while so i doubt there will be change from PCI-e...
and there wont be too much need to higher speeds than 800 until he builds his next computer...


i changed his original mobo to be AM2 for the sheer upgradablility...


he is building a budget machine... in  a budget machine you don't think what is the performance can i get now, you think, what is the best performance i can get until i build my next puter... that is why i give the more upgradable ram route...

and he has already decided that RAM route probably because i showed proof of how ram technology goes... and i hope he enjoys his setup when it is finished and i beleive he will... i'm going outside now...


----------



## bball4life

omg, I am not gonna argue with you anymore, and most likely the am3 will be like conroe now, same socket, but different chipsets so they don't work.  But whatever live in your fantasy land where you put 4gb of ram in a budget comp.


----------



## Adam Murray

I am happy with 1GB for now and eventually i'll upgrade to 2GB.. I may either rebuild or continue to upgrade.. it just depends on where I am at money-wise.

Anyways, could you please let me know if you think I should get the heatsink/coolant thing I posted, or if there may be a cheaper alternative, or if you even think I need one at all?

Thanks!


----------



## SC7

Encore4More said:
			
		

> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.... AM3 processors will be compatible with AM2 sockets


Ok, I'm quite sick of you spitting out random facts without any type of justification whatsoever.  I've followed your little arguement here, and you've done nothing but make statements with absolutely no explanation whatsoever for them.  

So, first of all, would you like to show me detailed schematics on AM3, and give me a detailed comparison to AM2, and prove to me that there will be backwards compatibility?  The K8 line is done, and is going out with AM2.  The next step in the line is K8L, a whole new architecture, and do you know what that means, compatibility issues.  The K8L will be completely different from the inside of the chip, that it would not work with most of the current chipsets, and even less of the current BIOSes.  Let's not forget you're assuming there's going to be a new socket too, and likely more pins, or at the least, a different arrangement, explain to me how that is going to fit into an AM2 slot?  It's not.  



			
				Encore4More said:
			
		

> i beleive i said something about the possible upgrade of AM3... i meant to add in a note about future video cards... perhaps a new AM3 with new a new AMD video card?
> i do no about bottlenecking


Why would you be talking about AM3 in the first place, besides the fact it wouldn't matter, as most of the stuff would be outdated, as DDR3 is in the workings.  And guess what, becuase AMD uses an integrated memory controller, it's all designed off of the RAM it uses, which means, they'd need to stay cutting edge, and the K8L would only support DDR3, thus making what he has useless.  For god sakes, stop referring to them as AMD video cards, the company is still ATI, just because they merged business wise, does not mean they are even remotely close to selling cards labeled AMD.  That, my friend, would result in a massive marketing mistake, something you should read up on.



> and there wont be too much need to higher speeds than 800 until he builds his next computer...


You're talking speeds not important, yet you refer to AM3???  What you say now is also false, especially if he wants to overclock, faster memory works a lot better.  If 1066 MHz memory ships with the same timings as an equal sized stick of 800, and it ends up running at say 600 MHz, do you not think the 1066 can run better?  Have you not heard of CAS latency, and timings?



> he is building a budget machine... in a budget machine you don't think what is the performance can i get now, you think, what is the best performance i can get until i build my next puter...


Is this a fact?  You don't sacrafice on your current build, never because it has to last, that may be one of the most assinine statements I have ever heard.  Suppose his next machine is a budget rig as well?  



> im not... i am planning out for him to upgrade the best way to the higher standard of 2008


No, you're clearly not, see above posts about K8L (stop saying AM3) and DDR3.



> look at how technology has grown and you will see otherwise...


I've looked, and I must disagree.



> and he has already decided that RAM route probably because i showed proof of how ram technology goes... and i hope he enjoys his setup when it is finished and i beleive he will... i'm going outside now...


Yes, you've stated your comments in a very mature and very professional manner, do have fun outside.  You've showed no proof, and have no idea how the next months/years of RAM technology go.  Remember there are limits on 32 bit performance with more than 4 GB (and I'm not talking about PAE either).  

To the original poster, all I can say is, go with the 2x512, you'll be very happy, especially since you never plan on taking this budget system to 4 GB.  Encore4more has made several statements, and failed to provide substancial proof.  Time after time I've seen many blaitant false infos in his posts.  Also, for the cooling heatsink, it will do you fine, but assuming you're getting a retail CPU, and don't plan to overclock, you really don't need it, best left to use what they give.


----------



## diduknowthat

Upgrading an old computer is effective till a certain extent, then it's just a big waste of money. When the day comes when he needs more than 4 gigs of ram, it's probably time to build a completely new system.


----------



## Adam Murray

SC7,  what do you think of the parts I posted a few posts back (besides the 1GB stick)?  Is the mobo/cpu/gpu & all the important parts ok?


----------



## Dr Studly

SC7 said:
			
		

> Ok, I'm quite sick of you spitting out random facts without any type of justification whatsoever.  I've followed your little arguement here, and you've done nothing but make statements with absolutely no explanation whatsoever for them.
> 
> So, first of all, would you like to show me detailed schematics on AM3, and give me a detailed comparison to AM2, and prove to me that there will be backwards compatibility?  The K8 line is done, and is going out with AM2.  The next step in the line is K8L, a whole new architecture, and do you know what that means, compatibility issues.  The K8L will be completely different from the inside of the chip, that it would not work with most of the current chipsets, and even less of the current BIOSes.  Let's not forget you're assuming there's going to be a new socket too, and likely more pins, or at the least, a different arrangement, explain to me how that is going to fit into an AM2 slot?  It's not.



you are a fool...
http://masc2279.no-ip.org/gadgets-toys/computers/socket-am2-forward-compatible-with-am3-cpus/ 
everything you just said about me, i just proved about you...
and i proved a whole paragraph u just wasted ur breath... u didn't look that up... however that article completely shows how foolish u r...



			
				SC7 said:
			
		

> Why would you be talking about AM3 in the first place, besides the fact it wouldn't matter, as most of the stuff would be outdated, as DDR3 is in the workings.  And guess what, becuase AMD uses an integrated memory controller, it's all designed off of the RAM it uses, which means, they'd need to stay cutting edge, and the K8L would only support DDR3, thus making what he has useless.


again look to the article... AM3 processors will work in AM2 motherboard... but AM2 motherboards only support DDR2... but it IS backwards compatible...



			
				SC7 said:
			
		

> For god sakes, stop referring to them as AMD video cards, the company is still ATI, just because they merged business wise, does not mean they are even remotely close to selling cards labeled AMD.  That, my friend, would result in a massive marketing mistake, something you should read up on.


no ihave read up on it... and if you know anything about business you would see that merging and buying out a company is not the same...
and it isn't for certain AMD is buying ATI...
i said that is only possible... which it is...




			
				SC7 said:
			
		

> You're talking speeds not important, yet you refer to AM3???  What you say now is also false, especially if he wants to overclock, faster memory works a lot better.  If 1066 MHz memory ships with the same timings as an equal sized stick of 800, and it ends up running at say 600 MHz, do you not think the 1066 can run better?  Have you not heard of CAS latency, and timings?


was the AM2 using DDR2 much better increase then the Socket 939 using DDR? no




			
				SC7 said:
			
		

> Is this a fact?  You don't sacrafice on your current build, never because it has to last, that may be one of the most assinine statements I have ever heard.  Suppose his next machine is a budget rig as well?


 a budget machine is just a express machine for upgrading later... unless u can't upgrade... you make a budget rig as upgradable as possible... (unless u don't plan on upgrading) but as he said before he does plan on it...




			
				SC7 said:
			
		

> see above posts about K8L (stop saying AM3) and DDR3.


tell me something: Can you read?
either you can't read or have never looked up info on the "AM3" as most articles and roadmaps show it...




			
				SC7 said:
			
		

> Yes, you've stated your comments in a very mature and very professional manner, do have fun outside. You've showed no proof, and have no idea how the next months/years of RAM technology go.  Remember there are limits on 32 bit performance with more than 4 GB (and I'm not talking about PAE either).


i showed a statistics of the passed then based the solution on logic... tell me, have u ever even learned logic?



			
				SC7 said:
			
		

> To the original poster, all I can say is, go with the 2x512, you'll be very happy, especially since you never plan on taking this budget system to 4 GB.  Encore4more has made several statements, and failed to provide substancial proof.  Time after time I've seen many blaitant false infos in his posts.


I provided substancial proof... should i go find more?


hereis PROOF!!!!
http://masc2279.no-ip.org/gadgets-toys/computers/socket-am2-forward-compatible-with-am3-cpus/
http://amd.vendors.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/06/1355200
http://www.techpowerup.com/?14066



Oh and here is a thing about the future of RAM
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/275/1/



should i find anything else for you? may i point out u didn't show proof for what u said either?
and may i point out that i have showed proof for everything u asked me to?

fool, don't tell someone to go find proof for waht they are saying if you don't do the same...


----------



## Adam Murray

Why is everyone fighting here?  I am just trying to get some help to build myself a computer :/   

I was reading reviews on the mobo I have selected and a few people were saying that it runs really hot and I only need 1 slot for my video card.. so I would like to know what you guys think of this mobo instead...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131022

Also, what do you think of this 2x512 ram I picked out...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141065

Or... what would you suggest?


----------



## Dr Studly

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> Also, what do you think of this 2x512 ram I picked out...
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141065
> 
> Or... what would you suggest?


i would still suggest 1 stick of 1GB seeing as i provided proof of that...
oh and that is a good mobo also... just no SLI (which for your purposes, you don't need it)...


i am gona configure a PC again... see if i can do better... bb in 5 minutes


----------



## Decadence

how about this ram instead? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231088


----------



## Adam Murray

ok, i look forward to seeing your new config... I think I'm pretty much where I wanted to be with all of my parts... I just need to decide on some ram and a decent PSU..

Also.. not that I really need any help with this or not, but I wanted to let you guys know that I plan on getting a 19' widescreen lcd and mounting it to my wall!  It should be awesome when I get done with it!!


----------



## Dr Studly

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2000MHz HT 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor - $169
 Motherboard: MSI K9N Neo-F Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 550 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - $77
 RAM: pqi TURBO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - $144
 Video Card: XFX PV-T71G-UDF7 GeForce 7900 GT (470MHz) 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - $260
 Harddrive: Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS 200GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $74
 Optical Drive: get this DVD burner in either Silver, Beige, or Black, depending on what color ur case is - $30
 Power Supply: Rosewill RP550-2 ATX 2.01 550W Power Supply 115/230 V CSA, CB, TUV, FCC, UL - $59
*Approx:* $813




ok so now we have dual-channel and 1gb sticks... everyone happy?


----------



## Bobo

Encore4More said:
			
		

> Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2000MHz HT 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor - $169
> Motherboard: MSI K9N Neo-F Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 550 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - $77
> RAM: pqi TURBO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - $144
> Video Card: XFX PV-T71G-UDF7 GeForce 7900 GT (470MHz) 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - $260
> Harddrive: Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS 200GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $74
> Optical Drive: get this DVD burner in either Silver, Beige, or Black, depending on what color ur case is - $30
> Power Supply: Rosewill RP550-2 ATX 2.01 550W Power Supply 115/230 V CSA, CB, TUV, FCC, UL - $59
> *Approx:* $813
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok so now we have dual-channel and 1gb sticks... everyone happy?


Lol...now a compromise  The only thing that I don't like is the motherboard, it is fine, just a little on the cheapy end.


----------



## Dr Studly

Bobo said:
			
		

> Lol...now a compromise  The only thing that I don't like is the motherboard, it is fine, just a little on the cheapy end.


good reviews...


----------



## Bobo

Encore4More said:
			
		

> good reviews...


 hmmm....it's a pretty good board. 

--deleted--

edit:
on second thought, go with the MSI


----------



## Adam Murray

Everything sounds good, except I will probably still go with this mobo instead... 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131022
I've always liked the ASUS brand.

If I can get 2 1GB sticks for only about $40-$50 more.. then I will probably go ahead and do that rather than getting the 2x512 ones...

Thanks guys I think I'm pretty much set with what Im gonna get!


----------



## Bobo

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> Everything sounds good, except I will probably still go with this mobo instead...
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131022
> I've always liked the ASUS brand.
> 
> If I can get 2 1GB sticks for only about $40-$50 more.. then I will probably go ahead and do that rather than getting the 2x512 ones...
> 
> Thanks guys I think I'm pretty much set with what Im gonna get!


Lol...glad we finally figured it out. 

I would agree with the Asus


----------



## bball4life

Encore4More said:
			
		

> Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2000MHz HT 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor - $169
> Motherboard: MSI K9N Neo-F Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 550 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - $77
> RAM: pqi TURBO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - $144
> Video Card: XFX PV-T71G-UDF7 GeForce 7900 GT (470MHz) 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - $260
> Harddrive: Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS 200GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $74
> Optical Drive: get this DVD burner in either Silver, Beige, or Black, depending on what color ur case is - $30
> Power Supply: Rosewill RP550-2 ATX 2.01 550W Power Supply 115/230 V CSA, CB, TUV, FCC, UL - $59
> *Approx:* $813
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok so now we have dual-channel and 1gb sticks... everyone happy?


I'll agree with that one.  Thats a pretty nice setup for the price, good job compiling everything.  The only thing is the power supply, rosewill's are ok power supplies, but then again its your best option for the price.

And I like the Asus mobo more too.


----------



## SC7

Very nice setup, encore4more.  I apoligize for my post seeming quite arrogant earlier.  

Anyway, the only thing I would be concerned about in that build is possibly the power supply and it's rails.  It does, however, seem to have good reviews, so it looks like a good buy.


----------



## JG30

Everyone I'm in a similar situation as the OP (as far as pricing goes at around 1k) and am finding this thread very interesting.  I've been away from the computer world for a while now as I haven't had the time to keep up like I use to.  Everyone is recommending the AM2 socket.  The last time I was around computers the 939 was just really catching on.

I'm curious if someone could go about explaining the advantages of the AM2 socket and why it is desirable.  Is it do to being the future socket of choice? Or does it actually perform better then the 939 right now?  From what I saw the cpu and mobo are actually cheaper on the AM2 side then the 939.

Also to add can someone tell me whats going on with the conroe from intel?  Has it been released? If not when?  I remember reading that it was going to be far better then the AM2 but that was a while ago.  I'm curious if someone could give me an update on this.

Sorry for asking questions I probably could answer myself but I need to build this computer for a friend rather soon.  I have been to busy working to actually catch up on all the latest stuff.  Usually I would just research for myself but time really isn't allowing that. Thanks everyone.


----------



## Adam Murray

Yeah, I am interested in the differences between the AM2's and the 939's as well...

Also, what's wrong with the Rosewill's rails (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817182017)?  It has a total of 36A on the +12v rail...  From what I've heard, that is pretty good!


----------



## SC7

Yes, but are they stable?


----------



## Bobo

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> Yeah, I am interested in the differences between the AM2's and the 939's as well...


The only real difference is that AM2 has one more pin and supports DDR2.  The processors are the same, except for a few new models and the lower power models.


----------



## Adam Murray

SC7,  I don't know if they are stable.. How can I find out?  What PSU would you suggest??


----------



## bball4life

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> SC7,  I don't know if they are stable.. How can I find out?  What PSU would you suggest??


if possible, like an antec, seasonic, or even your original psu, super flower is a pretty good brand


----------



## Adam Murray

About the PSU's...

In Praetor's Computer guide for gaming computers with an $800 budget, he recommends getting this PSU...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817189005 ($48.99)

How would you compare that to the one I currently have selected?
which is this one - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817182017 ?


----------



## Bobo

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> About the PSU's...
> 
> In Praetor's Computer guide for gaming computers with an $800 budget, he recommends getting this PSU...
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817189005 ($48.99)
> 
> How would you compare that to the one I currently have selected?
> which is this one - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817182017 ?


Yours is better, but it is also $11 more expensive.  If you want to spend that, then yes, it is the better psu.


----------



## bball4life

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> About the PSU's...
> 
> In Praetor's Computer guide for gaming computers with an $800 budget, he recommends getting this PSU...
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817189005 ($48.99)
> 
> How would you compare that to the one I currently have selected?
> which is this one - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817182017 ?


Just hope neither of them fry out after a month, they do seem to have good reviews, but you can't always trust the reveiws on newegg.


----------



## Dr Studly

JG30 said:
			
		

> Everyone I'm in a similar situation as the OP (as far as pricing goes at around 1k) and am finding this thread very interesting.  I've been away from the computer world for a while now as I haven't had the time to keep up like I use to.  Everyone is recommending the AM2 socket.  The last time I was around computers the 939 was just really catching on.
> 
> I'm curious if someone could go about explaining the advantages of the AM2 socket and why it is desirable.  Is it do to being the future socket of choice? Or does it actually perform better then the 939 right now?  From what I saw the cpu and mobo are actually cheaper on the AM2 side then the 939.
> 
> Also to add can someone tell me whats going on with the conroe from intel?  Has it been released? If not when?  I remember reading that it was going to be far better then the AM2 but that was a while ago.  I'm curious if someone could give me an update on this.
> 
> Sorry for asking questions I probably could answer myself but I need to build this computer for a friend rather soon.  I have been to busy working to actually catch up on all the latest stuff.  Usually I would just research for myself but time really isn't allowing that. Thanks everyone.


 With that budget i think we should count out AM2...   it has been explained well to you, but i'm sure everyone here would agree that you should go down this type of route:




Processor:Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 2.13GHz / 2MB Cache / 1066MHz FSB / Dual-Core / OEM / Socket 775 / Processor - $259
Motherboard: Intel BOXDP965LTCK Socket T (LGA 775) Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - $129
 RAM: pqi TURBO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - $144
 Video Card: XFX PV-T71G-UDF7 GeForce 7900 GT (470MHz) 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - $260
 Harddrive: Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS 200GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $74
 Optical Drive: get this DVD burner in either Silver, Beige, or Black, depending on what color ur case is - $30
 Power Supply: Rosewill RP550-2 ATX 2.01 550W Power Supply 115/230 V CSA, CB, TUV, FCC, UL - $59
*Approx:* $956


----------



## bball4life

not a bad setup but overbudget, the setup he had is fine.


----------



## Dr Studly

he said 1K
and this has conroe 
wOOt


----------



## bball4life

Well it would be worth the extra $150 but if his budget is $1000 then why is this thread "my $800 budget gaming pc".  The one he has set up its a great comp for $800.


----------



## m0nk3ys1ms

bball4life said:
			
		

> Well it would be worth the extra $150 but if his budget is $1000 then why is this thread "my $800 budget gaming pc".  The one he has set up its a great comp for $800.



You can still get a Core 2 Duo for $800.


----------



## bball4life

monkeysims said:
			
		

> You can still get a Core 2 Duo for $800.


Then build a core 2 system for under $800 and keep high quality parts not junk with a good cpu.


----------



## m0nk3ys1ms

bball4life said:
			
		

> Then build a core 2 system for under $800 and keep high quality parts not junk with a good cpu.



Intel Core 2 Duo E6300
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2280517&CatId=2396

Intel BOXDP965LTCK Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813121035

pqi TURBO 2*1GB DDR2-800
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820141064

Radeon X850XT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102483

Samsung SpinPoint 160GB HDD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822152020

HIPRO 500W PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817174023

NEC DVD-RW
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152058

$796.50 and nothing junky.


----------



## SC7

monkeysims said:
			
		

> Intel Core 2 Duo E6300
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2280517&CatId=2396
> 
> Intel BOXDP965LTCK Motherboard
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813121035
> 
> pqi TURBO 2*1GB DDR2-800
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820141064
> 
> Radeon X850XT
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102483
> 
> Samsung SpinPoint 160GB HDD
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822152020
> 
> HIPRO 500W PSU
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817174023
> 
> NEC DVD-RW
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152058
> 
> $796.50 and nothing junky.


Very nice configuration, monkeysims.  I may be taking that and building it for myself.  (Replacing the gfx with nVidia of course.).


----------



## m0nk3ys1ms

SC7 said:
			
		

> Very nice configuration, monkeysims.  I may be taking that and building it for myself.  (Replacing the gfx with nVidia of course.).



Thanks SC7.


----------



## bball4life

monkeysims said:
			
		

> Intel Core 2 Duo E6300
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2280517&CatId=2396
> 
> Intel BOXDP965LTCK Motherboard
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813121035
> 
> pqi TURBO 2*1GB DDR2-800
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820141064
> 
> Radeon X850XT
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102483
> 
> Samsung SpinPoint 160GB HDD
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822152020
> 
> HIPRO 500W PSU
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817174023
> 
> NEC DVD-RW
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152058
> 
> $796.50 and nothing junky.


Well I have to give it to you thats a very nice build, you could even go with a x800gto2 and unlock it to x850xt speeds, that is if you will be overclocking.  You also might want to think about investing in a sound card, it will actually improve your performance by a good amount, since it takes the strain of processing sound of off the cpu.  A decent sound blaster 24bit can be bought for like $25.


----------



## SC7

You can even get this.  Audigy SE.


----------



## Adam Murray

bball4life said:
			
		

> Well it would be worth the extra $150 but if his budget is $1000 then why is this thread "my $800 budget gaming pc".  The one he has set up its a great comp for $800.



bball4life, encore was posting that for JG30 - who tried to steal my thread by putting his own situation in here, lol...  All is well though.

But... now I am faced with deciding whether or not to go with the core cpu or the am2.. grrr.   I think I am still going to go with the configuration I have as I have a 7900gt card!


----------



## m0nk3ys1ms

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> bball4life, encore was posting that for JG30 - who tried to steal my thread by putting his own situation in here, lol...  All is well though.
> 
> But... now I am faced with deciding whether or not to go with the core cpu or the am2.. grrr.   I think I am still going to go with the configuration I have as I have a 7900gt card!



If I were you, I would go with the Core 2 Duo build that I proposed.


----------



## SC7

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> bball4life, encore was posting that for JG30 - who tried to steal my thread by putting his own situation in here, lol...  All is well though.
> 
> But... now I am faced with deciding whether or not to go with the core cpu or the am2.. grrr.   I think I am still going to go with the configuration I have as I have a 7900gt card!


I'm not quite sure about that.  Remember, go for what offers you the best performance, not just the company.


----------



## bball4life

monkeysims said:
			
		

> If I were you, I would go with the Core 2 Duo build that I proposed.


I'm gonna have to agree here, ok so that card isn't as good as a 7900gt but is still is a great card, I had no clue they were that cheap now.  It will handle most games on high settings and is a good option.  If you really want the 7900gt think about saving an extra $100 and going with his build with the 7900gt.


----------



## Adam Murray

Everyone here helped me create a system using an AM2.. and now all of a sudden everyone agrees that going to a core 2 duo is a much better decision...  

I see from the new config that I would get... 

a more expensive intel mobo (+$30)
a more expensive cpu (intel core duo 1.86GHz - instead of AM2 3800+ (~2.0GHz) (+40)
2x1GB sticks instead of 2x512mb (+$40)
160GB with 8mb instead of 250GB 16mb harddrive (-$13)
a less expensive psu (-$27)
and last, but not least... a $100 less graphics card... (-$100)

I really do not care that much about the harddrive, nor the psu, so its mainly the issue about the graphics card...  So please tell me whether or not the graphics card is a big deal and why it is so much more worth it to go with the duo core 2?  It even shows the clock speed of the duo core is 1.86GHz vs. 2.0Ghz for the AM2..

I could always use the extra money from dropping the prices of the harddrive, psu, & graphics card to buy a better AM2 and more ram...  Also, I always heard that AMD processors are better for gaming systems.. is this still true or have things changed?

Guys please help me out here and I'm sure it will help out a lot of other people as well when deciding which route to go!


----------



## m0nk3ys1ms

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> Everyone here helped me create a system using an AM2.. and now all of a sudden everyone agrees that going to a core 2 duo is a much better decision...
> 
> I see from the new config that I would get...
> 
> a more expensive intel mobo (+$30)
> a more expensive cpu (intel core duo 1.86GHz - instead of AM2 3800+ (~2.0GHz) (+40)
> 2x1GB sticks instead of 2x512mb (+$40)
> 160GB with 8mb instead of 250GB 16mb harddrive (-$13)
> a less expensive psu (-$27)
> and last, but not least... a $100 less graphics card... (-$100)
> 
> I really do not care that much about the harddrive, nor the psu, so its mainly the issue about the graphics card...  So please tell me whether or not the graphics card is a big deal and why it is so much more worth it to go with the duo core 2?  It even shows the clock speed of the duo core is 1.86GHz vs. 2.0Ghz for the AM2..
> 
> I could always use the extra money from dropping the prices of the harddrive, psu, & graphics card to buy a better AM2 and more ram...  Also, I always heard that AMD processors are better for gaming systems.. is this still true or have things changed?
> 
> Guys please help me out here and I'm sure it will help out a lot of other people as well when deciding which route to go!



That X850XT will handle anything you throw at it.  Core 2 Duo's are the choice for gaming now. The 1.86Ghz Conroe is the way to go, trust me.


----------



## SC7

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> I really do not care that much about the harddrive, nor the psu, so its mainly the issue about the graphics card... !



You really should worry about the power supply.  A bad power supply could take down the whole unit.  A bad power supply could also prevent your critical components, such as your graphics card from performing.  You may often get artifacts and other issues with a low end power supply.

Just something to think about

sc7


----------



## Dr Studly

if u get the His Hightech X850XT IceQ II Edition you can overclock the hell out of it... it has a freaking quite and cooling effecient fan and is an overclocking dream... if u can find it


----------



## SC7

Encore4More said:
			
		

> if u get the His Hightech X850XT IceQ II Edition you can overclock the hell out of it... it has a freaking quite and cooling effecient fan and is an overclocking dream... if u can find it


Is that the one with the cooling pipe system or something?  Because I saw something like that, and it was really cool.


----------



## Adam Murray

SC7 said:
			
		

> You really should worry about the power supply.  A bad power supply could take down the whole unit.  A bad power supply could also prevent your critical components, such as your graphics card from performing.  You may often get artifacts and other issues with a low end power supply.
> 
> Just something to think about
> 
> sc7



Well I know that the PSU is important, but I was saying I didnt care about the price difference because the one he picked out (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817174023) looked decent... (it has a total of 40A on the +12v rails).

Also, I did find the His Hightech X850XT IceQ II Edition card encore was talking about and it does look pretty good.. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161165)  I just dont see how a card that is pretty much $100 less can make up for the difference with a dual core 2 processor...  All you guys are saying is "trust me", but I need some better help then this so I can decide.

This may be a dumb question, but is it hard to do 'overclocking' and is it risky?


----------



## ceewi1

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> Well I know that the PSU is important, but I was saying I didnt care about the price difference because the one he picked out (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817174023) looked decent... (it has a total of 40A on the +12v rails).


Looking at the sticker, it's actually +12V @ 29A (Dual rails don't necessarily sum).  A little lite for the system you're proposing, particularly given that the X850 is quite power hungry.  This is somewhat better: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817189003



> Also, I did find the His Hightech X850XT IceQ II Edition card encore was talking about and it does look pretty good.. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161165)


Well, that's an X800XL, not an X850XT.  A 7600GT would be better at the same price (not as power hungry either).  



> I just dont see how a card that is pretty much $100 less can make up for the difference with a dual core 2 processor...  All you guys are saying is "trust me", but I need some better help then this so I can decide


For a gaming oriented machine, the better video card in the AM2 based system will be telling.  For a general purpose machine, consider the Core 2 Duo based rig.  Neither a 7600GT or X850XT will be able to handle modern high-res games at near to maximum settings.  Just look at what happens with Oblivion, and some of the top video cards: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/oblivion_high-end_performance/page6.asp
Here's a comparison of the CPUs: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e6300_11.html



> This may be a dumb question, but is it hard to do 'overclocking' and is it risky?


You can find out all about overclocking the CPU at OC101 (I doubt you'd be doing all that much of that with the Intel mobo).  Overclocking the video card isn't particularly difficult, and generally safe, although with the exception of certain brands (such as eVga), *it will void your warranty*.


----------



## JG30

Sorry bout jacking your thread.  

It justs seems like everyone was saying to go with the AM2 instead of the Conroe (which I know see was renamed the Core 2 Duo).  Your budget at the start was not that far off of the person I'm building this computer for.

Where the difference might be is usage.  I'm building mine for good performance in gaming but for the most part I need to focus on running the basics without bogging down.  This is where I see the two processors coming into play.

We all know that for the most part AMD is been held as the better gaming machine and Intel the buisness production choice.  Yet I don't know how true that holds today.  Like I said I remember reading articles on the Conroe saying it would blow the pants off the AM2 in all aspects, even gaming!  They were pretty sure of themselves.  How this has articulated into present day I am not sure.

If I was to go by history I'd know which processor fell on what side of the tracks.  But instead I'd love to see some HARD evidence to prove either way that one performs better in certain situations then the other.

If I had to put money on it I would say the Intel system would probably be a better system for my particular needs and the AMD for all you dedicated gaming machines.  But I'd still like to see the proof.

PS: Thanks for putting together that Intel system.  It gives me a good place to start from.  I know what I would want from the 939 or AM2 systems because I use to build AMD systems all the time.  I haven't built an Intel system in years. Thanks again.


----------



## JG30

ceewi1 said:
			
		

> For a gaming oriented machine, the better video card in the AM2 based system will be telling.  For a general purpose machine, consider the Core 2 Duo based rig.  Neither a 7600GT or X850XT will be able to handle modern high-res games at near to maximum settings.  Just look at what happens with Oblivion, and some of the top video cards: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/oblivion_high-end_performance/page6.asp
> Here's a comparison of the CPUs: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e6300_11.html




After going through and reading the articles you proposed i think I have found my answers.    Thank you very much. I'd have to say that after reading that the OP should go conroe, even if that means spending a little extra for what he wants.


I have a few questions:

1.) Is the E6400 worth the extra money over the E6300?
2.) The Intel BOXDP965LTCK Motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813121035...does it support SLI?  Are there any other Mobo's anyone would recommend (and I'd like to get SLI support for kicks).


----------



## SC7

1.  That kind of depends on your needs.

2.  No, AFAIK, it needs an nVidia chipset to support SLI.  And I don't think an Intel board does.  (nVidia was supposed to open SLI up to third parties though).  Does that board have dual PCI-E slots?  The link is invalid.

Also, AMD isn't really the gamers choice anymore either.  Conroe is tanking AMD in the gaming benchmarks.


----------



## JG30

fixed the link for you. 

yea I think your right that it does not support SLI.  I didn't realize there are so few boards out. When did this come out? Recently it seems since there are absolutly no motherboards.  I'm guessing the same as you, thrid party will bring the SLI.

EDIT: I also found this. http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/06/07/nvidia_nforce_for_intel/.  Thats basically the answer.


----------



## SC7

As of right now, SLI is only supported by nVidia chipsets.  SLI has been out over a year, and is well supported on Pentium 4 and AMD boards.  The problem is, the main nForce4 SLI chipsets aren't compatible with Conroe as of yet.  nVidia will have to get some kind of new conroe compatible chipset out to the market with SLI support.


----------



## bball4life

Ok adam, you would be better off with the core 2 system, I will try and explain.  Even though the core 2 clock is lower then the am2 it is able to do more per Ghz that it has.  So in the end it is faster.  If I am not mistaken anyway that HIS x800xl should overclock easily to x850xt pe speeds with the touch of a button, not sure unless the have a seperate turbo version.  HIS cards are awesome for ati and have great stock cooling (arctic silencers in fact).  No as ceewi1 was saying it will not be able to handle modern games on maximum settings.  But truly there are very few cards that can, and most of them are only when it is in a sli or crossfire setup.  It will however be able to play the games smoothly on medium to high settings.

And about core 2 and sli, intel announced that they will not support sli, at least not on their boards, so its up to 3rd party companies to do that.


----------



## JG30

SC7 said:
			
		

> As of right now, SLI is only supported by nVidia chipsets.  SLI has been out over a year, and is well supported on Pentium 4 and AMD boards.  The problem is, the main nForce4 SLI chipsets aren't compatible with Conroe as of yet.  nVidia will have to get some kind of new conroe compatible chipset out to the market with SLI support.



Yes I did a little surfing here and found that there are indeed boards with SLI support coming very soon (or so they say).  Dates still seem to be unknown though which sucks for me since I have to build this thing within the next month at latest.  but for those that can wait I think this will be an amazing setup! Here is a link to some picture of the asus and dfi boards. http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=72861


----------



## m0nk3ys1ms

SC7 said:
			
		

> As of right now, SLI is only supported by nVidia chipsets.  SLI has been out over a year, and is well supported on Pentium 4 and AMD boards.  The problem is, the main nForce4 SLI chipsets aren't compatible with Conroe as of yet.  nVidia will have to get some kind of new conroe compatible chipset out to the market with SLI support.



That new chipset is the nForce 500 series.


----------



## bball4life

monkeysims said:
			
		

> That new chipset is the nForce 500 series.


Ya but it still isn't intel supporting it, like they are with crossfire, even though amd might merge with ati.  IT MAKES NO SENSE!!!


----------



## JG30

You know I was just thinking about it and although the currect intel based board does not support SLI you can still get 2 cards in the system even on that board.  The GX2!  Here is the proof...
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2371812


----------



## Bobo

JG30 said:
			
		

> You know I was just thinking about it and although the currect intel based board does not support SLI you can still get 2 cards in the system even on that board. The GX2! Here is the proof (not to mention it looks like a pretty decent deal as well!)
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2371812


You can put a GX2 in any system, *effectively* having 2 cards....


----------



## SC7

monkeysims said:
			
		

> That new chipset is the nForce 500 series.


Yea, I head about that, but how is support of technologies such as SLI coming along from nVidia with it.


----------



## bball4life

Bobo said:
			
		

> You can put a GX2 in any system, *effectively* having 2 cards....


Well ya that is always an option, still isn't sli, but a great nvidia option for that chip.


----------



## SC7

bball4life said:
			
		

> Well ya that is always an option, still isn't sli, but a great nvidia option for that chip.


Exactly, performance of the card will be limited by having only one PCI-E x16 bus.


----------



## JG30

Yea I realize all this but at least it's an option until they do release a SLi board.  Also if yu look on TigerDirect at there bundles with the Duo 2 chips they actually list the ASUS SLi board (P5N32-SLI SE) as part of a few packages.  Either they are jumping the gun or they know for a fact they will be released soon. I'd still want the DFI board.


----------



## bball4life

JG30 said:
			
		

> Yea I realize all this but at least it's an option until they do release a SLi board.  Also if yu look on TigerDirect at there bundles with the Duo 2 chips they actually list the ASUS SLi board (P5N32-SLI SE) as part of a few packages.  Either they are jumping the gun or they know for a fact they will be released soon. I'd still want the DFI board.


Well they aren't out yet but may be pretty soon.  As for the gx2's they really aren't limited that much, in fact they perform just about 10fps worse then 7900 gtxs in sli in most cases, not bad, so its really is equal to 7900gt's in sli for the most part.  It probably is limited some but not much by the bus, because even a 7900gt barely maxes out a pci-e 8x slot, thats why a lot of sli boards go to 8x 8x not 16x 16x when in sli mode.  So it really isn't a bad option, especially for its price compared to an sli or crossfire board with 2 7900gt's or gtx's or x1900's in crossfire.


----------



## SC7

Well, as long as an SLI board is conroe approved, I'd say get it.  Or, if you really want something, wait it out.  Don't settle for going for something not as powerfuly (AMD), just to save a month's time.  I did it once, you'll regret it.


----------



## Adam Murray

I have decided to go with the conroe system instead.  Now the only decisions I have come down to is choosing the video card.  I really do not need to max out the settings on the games, I just need at least medium to high quality.

My options for about $150 are the following... (prices are total+shipping)

HIS Hightech HX80XLQ256-3TOEN Radeon X800XL IceQ II 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail (Overclock to x850xt speeds as bball4life said)	$138.12
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161165 

SAPPHIRE 100106-RD Radeon X850XT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - OEM	$151.63
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102483 

eVGA 256-P2-N554-AX Geforce 7600GT KO 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail	$141.63
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130017

Also, something was said about not overclocking on an intel system..  Would it be hard to overclock the X800XL that bball4life suggested?

Please let me know what video card you think I should go for, Thanks!


----------



## bball4life

You have trouble overclocking on intel boards, but I would probably say that x850xt, then you don't have to worry about oc'ing.


----------



## Dr Studly

the Sapphie X850XT...


damn, there used to be a x850xt iceq II on newegg about 3 months ago... but that video card seemed to have completely disappared... i can't find it anywhere, not even ebay...


----------



## JG30

the intel system seems to more overclockable then people think.


----------



## Adam Murray

So you guys would choose the Sapphie X850XT over the 7600GT?
The 7600GT's normal price is $165.99, but right now its $135.99 after mail in rebate..
The X850XT's normal price is $145.99.

I know you can't always compare price to performance, but I thought you guys would lean more towards the 7600GT... Ceewi1 said that the 7600GT would be better and not as power hungry.  Let me know what you think.


----------



## bball4life

Encore4More said:
			
		

> damn, there used to be a x850xt iceq II on newegg about 3 months ago... but that video card seemed to have completely disappared... i can't find it anywhere, not even ebay...


That was a nice card, so are all HIS, I still say the x850xt unless you want to save the few bucks.

Woohoo 400th post


----------



## SC7

JG30 said:
			
		

> the intel system seems to more overclockable then people think.


The Intel chip is way more overclockable than the AMD.  The graphics card is very overclockable.  The problem is you cannot overclock on an Intel board.  Intel boards lock overclocking.


----------



## JG30

SC7 said:
			
		

> The Intel chip is way more overclockable than the AMD.  The graphics card is very overclockable.  The problem is you cannot overclock on an Intel board.  Intel boards lock overclocking.



Thus another reason to wait for the new boards.


----------



## SC7

JG30 said:
			
		

> Thus another reason to wait for the new boards.


Correct.


----------



## Adam Murray

So are the new boards supposed to be coming out soon?


----------



## bball4life

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> So are the new boards supposed to be coming out soon?


Ya pretty soon there will be a flood of them.  Right now asus has a good conroe mobo though, the p5b about $160 if you don't wanna wait.


----------



## Adam Murray

Yeah, I found this combo with the intel core 2 duo and an asus mobo for $339
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...etails.asp?EdpNo=2368609&sku=MBM-P5NSLI-E6300  It looks like a pretty good combination.


----------



## 34erd

SC7 said:
			
		

> The Intel chip is way more overclockable than the AMD.  The graphics card is very overclockable.  The problem is you cannot overclock on an Intel board.  Intel boards lock overclocking.


The Bad Axe is an exeption from that "rule", it overclocks quite well.  Its up there with the other conroe boards.


----------



## SC7

34erd said:
			
		

> The Bad Axe is an exeption from that "rule", it overclocks quite well.  Its up there with the other conroe boards.


Well now, there's always those exceptions.


----------



## JG30

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> Yeah, I found this combo with the intel core 2 duo and an asus mobo for $339
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...etails.asp?EdpNo=2368609&sku=MBM-P5NSLI-E6300  It looks like a pretty good combination.



I do not understand this!  That board is the same old one they had on the market before the core 2 duo was out.  Yes it has the same chipset (and supports SLI) but so do many boards out there that are NOT considered to work with the core 2 duo.

That board from asus was suppose to be replaced by the same model number but with an "SE" at the end of the name and was to support the Core 2 Duo.

I would be careful about ordering that board if it is not the SE model (that I believe is NOT out yet).

Does anyone know if that old asus board is actually core 2 duo compadable? I think when I looked on Newegg and others it did not list it as supported on that board.


----------



## Adam Murray

I think I am going to go with the p5b asus board you recommended unless anyone see's any reason that I should wait... here is the link to the p5b...  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131030

Also, if I were to wait, where should I go to check up on the newest releases of motherboards that are duo core 2 compatible?


----------



## way2evil

newegg.com


----------



## Adam Murray

Yeah, I know newegg, but like where on newegg can you go.. for example, i went to motherboards section, I clicked on "intel-compatible", then I chose the cpu type "intel core2 duo", and only 2 come up.. and I know for a fact that http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131030 is compatible and its not listed in the category.


----------



## way2evil

go to advanced search (on the top of the page) and look for any check boxes that say core 2 duo next to them and check them and press seach


----------



## Adam Murray

Thanks guys for all of your help so far...  I do have a question that I came up with while looking at some of the games at the store...  I saw that F.E.A.R. requires a minimum of a 3.0GHz processor and I know that the duo core2 e6300 is only a 1.86GHz,  I was just curious to how a duo core2 1.86GHz compares with a standard 3.0GHz processor?


----------



## Adam Murray

Actually I think I answered my own question by checking out this link... http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e6300_11.html

It shows that the duo core2 e6300 (1.86GHz) actually outperforms the Pentium D 945 (3.4GHz) in the top games listed (Far Cry, Half life 2, F.E.A.R, & Quake 4)..

So I am definitely ok with getting the core2 processor now, but I still have one more question and it deals with my currect configuration's ability to overclock...

ASUS P5B Socket T (LGA 775) Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131030 $176.12

Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 1.86GHz / 2MB Cache / 1066MHz FSB / Dual-Core / OEM / Socket 775 / Processor
http://www.computerbrain.com/applications/search/itemdetails.asp?sku=BX80557E6300 $222.00

pqi TURBO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - RetaiL
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141064 $149.98

ASPIRE CONCORD ATX-MR500W ATX12V v2.03 500W Power Supply 115/230 V cUL, FCC, CSA, CB, TUV, CE, NEMCO, DEMCO, SEMCO, TC - Retail	$57.63
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817148010 

What do you guys think about being able to overclock this config?


----------



## Rambo

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> pqi TURBO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - RetaiL
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141064 $149.98



That RAM is not $150. It's $185! This RAM is slightly cheaper and better: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220095


----------



## Adam Murray

Rambo, thanks... it was $150 a few days ago because of discounts.. but i guess the price has gone back up.

Do you know anything about overclocking?


----------



## Adam Murray

and plus.. i need ddr2 800 ram, not ddr2 667.. but thanks for looking!


----------



## SC7

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> and plus.. i need ddr2 800 ram, not ddr2 667.. but thanks for looking!


Reason being...?  You can probably get better timings on DDR2 667.


----------



## Adam Murray

i thought the ram had to be an exact match to work with the mobo.


----------



## baballin328

I don't know if that overclocks very well. I hope it does...because my friend might get one and I'm helping him overclock it...
I know this is very good at overclocking http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131025 it got the e6300 to 2.5~GHZ and the e6400 to 2.88GHZ!


----------



## prodigio2k

so that system he is building is suposely faster than this....


ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard

Patriot 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System


AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2000MHz HT Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor Model ADA3800IAA5CU

eVGA 256-P2-N584-AR Geforce 7900GT KO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card



and im refering to this system 
"Adam Murray  	Actually I think I answered my own question by checking out this link... http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...-e6300_11.html

It shows that the duo core2 e6300 (1.86GHz) actually outperforms the Pentium D 945 (3.4GHz) in the top games listed (Far Cry, Half life 2, F.E.A.R, & Quake 4)..

So I am definitely ok with getting the core2 processor now, but I still have one more question and it deals with my currect configuration's ability to overclock...

ASUS P5B Socket T (LGA 775) Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131030 $176.12

Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 1.86GHz / 2MB Cache / 1066MHz FSB / Dual-Core / OEM / Socket 775 / Processor
http://www.computerbrain.com/applica...u=BX80557E6300 $222.00

pqi TURBO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - RetaiL
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820141064 $149.98

ASPIRE CONCORD ATX-MR500W ATX12V v2.03 500W Power Supply 115/230 V cUL, FCC, CSA, CB, TUV, CE, NEMCO, DEMCO, SEMCO, TC - Retail $57.63
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817148010

What do you guys think about being able to overclock this config?""""


----------



## 34erd

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> i thought the ram had to be an exact match to work with the mobo.


No, it doesn't, besides that RAM should scale up to DDR2 800, and maybe even further.


----------



## Ku-sama

like 1066?


----------



## 34erd

Ku-sama said:
			
		

> like 1066?


The RAM that Rambo posted?  Probably not, but people seem to get to around DDR2 900 with it.


----------



## Adam Murray

Yeah I know that the P5W DH DELUXE mobo will overclock well, but it is $100 more than the mobo I have picked out..

prodigio2k, all your parts combined are more expensive than my parts.. I would say that your video card is better of course, but the duo core2's are hot stuff right now and would most likely out perform the 3800+.. but then again my processor is about $50 more than yours.

Well what ram would you guys recommend for about $150??


----------



## prodigio2k

thats my biggest concern,im a big AMD fan boy,lol, and going intel its just not for me, so it will crush me to buy a slower computer for the same price, is it really "WORTH" the gain to change to intel, im not one of those geeks that look at numbers,i like looking at "feel" perfomance better. i hope i dont offend no one. ,just educate me,lol


----------



## Adam Murray

I'm more of an AMD fan as well, but read through this thread and you may be leaning more towards intel's core2 duo processors like I am..  I really wanted some helpful advice about whether or not my parts are good enough to do some overclocking and what ram I should consider. Anyone?


----------



## JG30

prodigio2k said:
			
		

> thats my biggest concern,im a big AMD fan boy,lol, and going intel its just not for me, so it will crush me to buy a slower computer for the same price, is it really "WORTH" the gain to change to intel, im not one of those geeks that look at numbers,i like looking at "feel" perfomance better. i hope i dont offend no one. ,just educate me,lol



It's ok to like AMD but realize that Intel has always been the leader in new technology way before AMD ever existed.  Loyalty to a company that charges 1k for a processor that performs like ass compared to todays standards!?!?  Just remember they are all big companies. Do you think they care about you?  So why be loyal to them.

But I think people should realize what intel has done for the world now and in the past.  Why people hate on Intel is beyond me.  They always have lead the market except for gamers for the last 5-10 years.  But that was never there main focus.  Intel has now wised up and is taking gamers back.  Intel will be the dominate force for the next 10+ years.  After that your going to see another evaluation just like people are seeing now.  And my guess Intel will be at the top again because they are just that damn good.

PS: Just for the record I hate fanboys...all of you!


----------



## bball4life

JG30 said:
			
		

> PS: Just for the record I hate fanboys...all of you!


Ok intel fanboy...
Honestly I prefer, or rather preferred amd, but for a reason, they produced better chips for less.  Now with conroe performance to price intel has the upper hand, but their conroe chips are anything but cheap.  So amd still has the better lower end processors which most people are gonna buy, I know I am not going to spend $500 on a cpu, I would rather go with a mid-high range x2 for under $200 even over the cheapo conroe, but thats partly because it wouldn't mean a complete rebuild.

As for overclocking your parts should be fine, don't know how well pqi overclocks but its already ddr2 800 so its already crazy fast.  As for the mobo its fine, the 975 chipset does overclock slightly better yes, but core 2's overclock almsot freakishly well, or they are supposed to, so a semi-decent overclocking board will still get you some decently high clocks compared to stock.


----------



## robina_80

havnt you orderd your hardware components yet if not id say def get an amd x2 am2


----------



## SC7

prodigio2k said:
			
		

> thats my biggest concern,im a big AMD fan boy,lol, and going intel its just not for me, so it will crush me to buy a slower computer for the same price, is it really "WORTH" the gain to change to intel, im not one of those geeks that look at numbers,i like looking at "feel" perfomance better. i hope i dont offend no one. ,just educate me,lol


The Conroe (Core 2 Duo), is winning in almost every performance department.  You shouldn't stay dedicated to one side or the other, you should always go for what gets you more performance where you need it per dollar.  Fanboys who stick to one side or the other only hurt themselves.  It's ok to go to Intel, they have the lead.


----------



## bball4life

SC7 said:
			
		

> The Conroe (Core 2 Duo), is winning in almost every performance department.  You shouldn't stay dedicated to one side or the other, you should always go for what gets you more performance where you need it per dollar.  Fanboys who stick to one side or the other only hurt themselves.  It's ok to go to Intel, they have the lead.


Exactly, now if you are on a tight budget amd is still the way to go, because you can get the most performance per dollar for under $200, while above like $300 its pretty much conroe from there on up.  Between those its really kind of a toss up.


----------



## Adam Murray

The E6300 conroe is about $210.. so it's really not too much more in cost.


----------



## bball4life

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> The E6300 conroe is about $210.. so it's really not too much more in cost.


I know but you can also get a 4200+ x2 for under $200 and there aren't really any benchmarks comparing the two so no one really knows which performs better.


----------



## Bobo

bball4life said:
			
		

> I know but you can also get a 4200+ x2 for under $200 and there aren't really any benchmarks comparing the two so no one really knows which performs better.


I bet you $20 that the Conroe is better


----------



## bball4life

Bobo said:
			
		

> I bet you $20 that the Conroe is better


ok... Well if you think about it, its a higher end amd dual core vs a low end intel dual core.  Just because the higher end core 2's perform amazingly well, doesn't mean that the lower end one will.


----------



## Bobo

The 4200 is closer to low end than to high end.  The Conroe will still beat it in mostly everything.


----------



## Ku-sama

lol, the mid range E6400 is just about on par with THE BEST AMD processor (FX-62) and the MUCH lower priced E6600 still crushes the FX-62... at like $350 less..


----------



## bball4life

Bobo said:
			
		

> The 4200 is closer to low end than to high end.  The Conroe will still beat it in mostly everything.


Ok its midrange, but you cant say conroe will beat it...  Who cares anyway they are both great cpu's for about $200.


			
				Ku-sama said:
			
		

> lol, the mid range E6400 is just about on par with THE BEST AMD processor (FX-62) and the MUCH lower priced E6600 still crushes the FX-62... at like $350 less..


Do you mean the e6400 is much lower priced then the e6600, cause it sounds like you are saying it the other way around.


----------



## Bobo

bball4life said:
			
		

> but you cant say conroe will beat it...


Oh yes I can, and I did, and I am right. 



> Do you mean the e6400 is much lower priced then the e6600, cause it sounds like you are saying it the other way around.


No, he means that the e6600 is lower priced than the FX-62, which it crushes


----------



## bball4life

We are getting way off track, the e6300 should oc a lot better then the 4200+ though, so for the most part its better, but there aren't any benchmarks proving it, and sometimes parts should perform better then another but when it comes down to testing they just don't perform like the specs make it seem.  You might as well just go with the e6400 if you are going conroe though, an almost 30 Mhz advantage for an extra $50, big performance difference between those two models.


----------



## JG30

bball4life said:
			
		

> Ok intel fanboy...
> Honestly I prefer, or rather preferred amd, but for a reason, they produced better chips for less.  Now with conroe performance to price intel has the upper hand, but their conroe chips are anything but cheap.  So amd still has the better lower end processors which most people are gonna buy, I know I am not going to spend $500 on a cpu, I would rather go with a mid-high range x2 for under $200 even over the cheapo conroe, but thats partly because it wouldn't mean a complete rebuild.
> 
> As for overclocking your parts should be fine, don't know how well pqi overclocks but its already ddr2 800 so its already crazy fast.  As for the mobo its fine, the 975 chipset does overclock slightly better yes, but core 2's overclock almsot freakishly well, or they are supposed to, so a semi-decent overclocking board will still get you some decently high clocks compared to stock.



Um I'm no fanboy.  Is there such thing as being an Intel fanboy?  I've never meet one.  Seems like everyone always hates on the big guy and likes the underdog better.  maybe intel should just suck for the next 20 years and get close to backrupt and then come out with something good.  People would probably have good things to say about them then.

Like I said being a fanboy is just stupid.  Do what is best for you not some company.

But I'm still curious as to why people dislike Intel so much.  I have never seen them do anything wrong to any one or trick anyone.  Same goes for AMD.  The only thing I can see is that gamers got pissy when Intel didn't make good gaming CPU's.  Big deal.  That wasn't the market they were going after.  Intel made chips when computers were used for actual work! Not gaming.  You can't fault them for that.  And as we can all see they have revamped there system to get gamers back on the intel side.  Pretty amazing business sense if you ask me.

The choice is obvious for those that aren't sitting around being fanboys.  Intel is in the lead by a LOT.  If AMD comes back and takes the crown away I'll be the first person to praise them for it.  In the end I don't care who made the damn chip as long as it does what it is suppose to do!


----------



## bball4life

I have nothing wrong with intel, currently they have the better cpu's, except for under $150.  Before core 2 though it was amd who was better, you got more speed and performance per dollar then intel.  When I built my comp it was an amd 3700+ vs a p4 640 I believe it was, and the amd was just a better option, adn the fact its better for gaming.  But now core 2 pretty much dominates all over, so can't tell you who I will go with when I build my next comp it will just depend on what is out at the time.


----------



## SC7

I'm going to try to throw some logic here into the mix.

I will very shortly be bulding my next computer.  I have a socket 478 2.8 GHz Northwood in my computer right now, so it's just about time.  When I bought this chip, it beat the price comparable AMD Athlon Xp (forget which one exactly it was), in every test except gaming.  As I have always been a console gamer anyway (I now on an Xbox 360), I decided it was best to get the Intel chip.

A few months ago, I had some despensable money, (birthday), and it was decision time, either get the Xbox 360 (when I could find it in stock), or upgrade my computer.  Ultimately, in the end, I got the Xbox 360, and I am glad for that decision.  However, in the weeks leading up to the decision, I had planned out a few rigs, just in case I decided to build a new PC.

I have never owned an AMD chip, and at one point, was afraid to leave Intel.  As I was thinking, it started to pain me that my (at the time netburst P4 775), configuration, costed me considerably more, and offered less performance.  (As per multiple benchmark viewings).  I decided, this is really stupid, I'll go for the AMD, if it's going to be better for me.

My new build coming up soon, may be either.  I don't know who will offer better performance per $$$ were I need it most.  Although Conroe has an advantage, the AMD price drops may still make it better per dollar in my price range.  If that's the case, I will go for AMD.  

The bottom line is for all of this, go for whatever it is that brings you more performance for your money.  AMD or Intel won't mind if you leave them for the other company, really, it will just push them to make better/more affordable products.  Do what is best for your performance, never because you like one company, or you dislike one, such as Intel because they're big.  Nothing is worse than when people say, I'm building a new machine, it has to be AMD because I hate intel, no conroe.  Honestly, get over yourself.  

Just a little bit to chew on, sc7.


----------



## stees

*similiar dilemma*

i have a similiar dilemma... i posted a similiar thread 2 weeks ago for a $1000 budget, but it seems like i was overshooting and 800 might be more of a reality for a budget.

originally i was going with a x2 3800 at 297, and from my thread i was told about the then upcoming conroe and amd price drops.  when conroe came out none were in stock (still are not... for the most part) so i went to tomshardware and saw the benchmark tests.

i was comparing the E6600 with the athlon x2 4800 and athlon x2 5000 which are both not heavily in stock either.... and these chips do not reflect the same price drops (if any) as all the lower-ended chips. so i still plan on spending around the same (~$300) for the CPU.  so i am just waiting on whichever is going to be more readily available..... the top-end athlon x2's or the newly released conroe E6600..... i did not want to go with the 6400 because 
1) it has a 2mb cache vs. the 4mb cache in the E6600
2) i was not able to do a comprehensive comparison since it was not benchmarked on tomshardware


what do u guys think?

tom's hardware benchmark article: [ http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/14/core2_duo_knocks_out_athlon_64/ ] benchmarks start on page 12


----------



## bball4life

The e6600 will blow the x2's away, it competes and in the end beats the fx-62, hands down core 2 in that situation.


----------



## JG30

bball4life said:
			
		

> The e6600 will blow the x2's away, it competes and in the end beats the fx-62, hands down core 2 in that situation.



Ditto.

The e6600 is a much better performer in all respects then any of the X2 lines and hangs and for the most part beats the top of the line AMD's.  E6600 gets the vote for now.  If they drop the price of there FX series to compete with the E6600 and E6700 then it's time to consider the AMD chips again.


----------



## bball4life

yup


----------



## Ekim401

Looks good, but 4200+ for only $30 more! and can clock to 4600+ speeds


----------



## SC7

Ekim401 said:
			
		

> Looks good, but 4200+ for only $30 more! and can clock to 4600+ speeds


Have you ever seen how well conroe is overclocking?


----------



## JG30

Wow you can overclocked a 4200+ to 4600+ speeds and still get less performance then a non-clocked Conroe.

So we have voided our warrenty on the chip to get less performance then we would get if we just bought a Conroe and didn't even overclock it and keeping our warrenty.  Good call!


----------



## Adam Murray

lol, ive already ordered my conroe cpu.. it is backordered, but the place im ordering from is supposed to have some in stock on August 7th!  I should be getting it soon!


----------



## bball4life

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> lol, ive already ordered my conroe cpu.. it is backordered, but the place im ordering from is supposed to have some in stock on August 7th!  I should be getting it soon!


Good choice, tell us how it is when you get it.


----------



## diduknowthat

Ekim401 said:
			
		

> Looks good, but 4200+ for only $30 more! and can clock to 4600+ speeds



You can clock it to the FX-62 speed and the E6600 will still beat it. Plus, why not the the x2 5000+ so it can clock to the non existent X2 5400+ speed


----------



## SC7

Anything the AMD can overclock to, you can do the same and more with Conroe.  Conroe is supposedly one of the best overclocking chips ever released.


----------



## bball4life

It sure seems like it is one of the best oc'ing chips, when they did the pre-release reviews some hardware sites that reviewed the chips were hitting 50% overclocks without pushin it to the max, now thats just crazy and thanks to the lower stock voltages.


----------



## JG30

I think this will be VERY interesting for everyone here who is on a budget and can only afford an E6400 instead of the E6600 &E6700.  Even though the E6400 lacks the 4MB cache and has a lower processor speed just look how it stacks up against it's bigger brothers and the AMD chips!

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/intel_core_2_duo_e6400_review/page2.asp

This should lay to rest the worries that people had about which chips would perform better on the low end of the price range.

Friggin 3.4GHz on AIR!!!


----------



## SC7

That's good for me, as that's probably what I will be stuck with for my budget (and I'll be more than happy).


----------



## JG30

Yea considering it overclocked that much and performed better then a X2 4600+ sometimes better then a X2 5000+ and even sometimes better then the FX-62.  Considering the price thats a hell of a performance/price.  I'd be interested in how well they can get it to perform on more serious OC motherboards and better cooling.


----------



## bball4life

JG30 said:
			
		

> Yea considering it overclocked that much and performed better then a X2 4600+ sometimes better then a X2 5000+ and even sometimes better then the FX-62.  Considering the price thats a hell of a performance/price.  I'd be interested in how well they can get it to perform on more serious OC motherboards and better cooling.


And that is just the e6400, someone needs to push the x6800 to its limits.


----------



## baballin328

even the e6300 beats the fx 62 and other conroes in some things when its overclocked: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2802&p=9


----------



## SC7

Apparently, Dual core is now the standard.  The value will upgrade to conroe, and will be the only single core (core solo), models shipping.

Linky


----------



## bball4life

SC7 said:
			
		

> Apparently, Dual core is now the standard.  The value will upgrade to conroe, and will be the only single core (core solo), models shipping.
> 
> Linky


That will make conroe available to everyone who has a comp.


----------



## Adam Murray

Hey guys,  one more quick question...

How will the video card be effected by me having a BIG monitor??

I already ordered and received this monitor...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824254005
its a 19" widescreen with 1440x900 resolution.  Should everything still run smoothly..

I was thinking of ordering the 7600gt over the other one. What do you guys think of the video card running at that high resolution?


----------



## m0nk3ys1ms

Adam Murray said:
			
		

> Hey guys,  one more quick question...
> 
> How will the video card be effected by me having a BIG monitor??
> 
> I already ordered and received this monitor...
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824254005
> its a 19" widescreen with 1440x900 resolution.  Should everything still run smoothly..
> 
> I was thinking of ordering the 7600gt over the other one. What do you guys think of the video card running at that high resolution?



You shouldn't have any problems, your card should be able to handle high resolutions with ease.


----------



## Iluvpenguins

Wicked sick build bro,get 2 gigs of Ram,2x1gb sticks,it'll be good for the near future seeing as how programs are starting to need more and more ram,especially with all the 64 bit computing that iwll be happening soon .If only my build was that good lol,and it cost me $800 cdn >.<


----------



## SC7

Iluvpenguins said:
			
		

> Wicked sick build bro,get 2 gigs of Ram,2x1gb sticks,it'll be good for the near future seeing as how programs are starting to need more and more ram,especially with all the 64 bit computing that iwll be happening soon .If only my build was that good lol,and it cost me $800 cdn >.<


Ahem, there's a budget limit.


----------



## bball4life

SC7 said:
			
		

> Ahem, there's a budget limit.


And its pretty much been reached, its not hard to upgrade to 2GB of ram down the line anyway.


----------



## Adam Murray

I am getting 2x1GB sticks.. it has been budgetted in already.


----------



## SC7

Adam Murray said:


> Hey guys,  one more quick question...
> 
> How will the video card be effected by me having a BIG monitor??
> 
> I already ordered and received this monitor...
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824254005
> its a 19" widescreen with 1440x900 resolution.  Should everything still run smoothly..
> 
> I was thinking of ordering the 7600gt over the other one. What do you guys think of the video card running at that high resolution?



It will run Windows fine, plenty fine at those resolutions.  My main concern would be gaming, on higher level 3D games, you may want to scale back a bit.  You may also find a little problem should you use generic VESA drivers in linux.  (i assume you won't)


----------



## bball4life

SC7 said:


> It will run Windows fine, plenty fine at those resolutions.  My main concern would be gaming, on higher level 3D games, you may want to scale back a bit.  You may also find a little problem should you use generic VESA drivers in linux.  (i assume you won't)


Ya for doing basic stuff you video card will hand it.  It is just when you are putting a pretty big load on it with games, then for more intense games your gonna need like a 7900gt anyway.


----------



## SC7

bball4life said:


> Ya for doing basic stuff you video card will hand it.  It is just when you are putting a pretty big load on it with games, then for more intense games your gonna need like a 7900gt anyway.



Meh, if you want just to play them with some stuff off/small res, the 7600 will do.


----------



## bball4life

SC7 said:


> Meh, if you want just to play them with some stuff off/small res, the 7600 will do.


Ya, exactly that is what I was saying.


----------

