# Should I buy a Black Friday computer or build one myself?



## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello everyone, 

Currently, I'm looking at buying a Dell desktop being sold on Black Friday. 

The deal is $700 for: 

Dell XPS 8500 
3rd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-3770 processor (3.40 GHz with Turbo Boost 2.0 up to 3.90 GHz) 
Windows 8, 64-bit 
8 GB Dual Channel DDR3 
16x CD/DVD burner 
1 TB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive 6.0 Gb/s 
AMD Radeon HD 7570 1 GB GDDR5 
1 Year Warranty 

Can I build a computer with better specs for less? 

My skills are decent with building stuff. I work on my car quite a bit (same screen name for every forum I'm on) so I feel comfortable with what I know how to do, but I don't know how to solder well. Will this make a difference? 

I've never built a computer before.

Thank you for your help!


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## spirit (Nov 21, 2012)

For 700 I'm gonna bet you can build a better PC yourself than that Dell, so I'd say build your own.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

spirit said:


> For 700 I'm gonna bet you can build a better PC yourself than that Dell, so I'd say build your own.



want to help a newb like myself out and show me an example of a better build 

I have no idea where to even begin if I start building my own computer. What kind of parts would I need to get?


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## spirit (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm a tad busy now, but you'd want is something like an i5 3570K, 8GB DDR3 RAM, Z77 motherboard, Carbide 300R (or similar) case, Corsair CX600 PSU, Radeon 7850, 1TB HDD. Should come to about 700, give or take. It'd be a lot better than that Dell.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

So I'm doing some research on what I might like to get if I build my own computer... Think this would be better than the Dell?

Processor:
AMD FX-8320 Eight-Core
http://www.amazon.com/AMD-FX-Series-Eight-Core-Processor-FD8320FRHKBOX/dp/B009O7YU56
$175

Graphics Card:
HIS IceQ X H785QN2G2M Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
$190 but $150 after mail-in-rebate


Motherboard: 
ASRock FM2A75 Pro4-M Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard  
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514&Tpk=GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+
$100 after $10 rebate card


Memory: 
G.SKILL Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
$38


Storage:
Seagate ST2000DM001 Barracuda 7200RPM 3 TB SATA 6 GB/s
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005T3GRN2/?tag=5336653510-20
$90


Case:
Thermaltake Chaser MK-I System Cabinet
http://www.overstock.com/Electronic...ystem-Cabinet/6028152/product.html?cid=123620
$160


Power Supply:
CORSAIR Builder Series CX600 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ogleNEW-_-Power+Supplies-_-Corsair-_-17139028
$70


Optical Drive:
Lite-On IHES112-04 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Internal Internal 12X Blu-ray Combo Model 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...grabb3r-_-Blu-Ray+Drives-_-Lite-On-_-27106374
$55


Total: $840


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

spirit said:


> I'm a tad busy now, but you'd want is something like an i5 3570K, 8GB DDR3 RAM, Z77 motherboard, Carbide 300R (or similar) case, Corsair CX600 PSU, Radeon 7850, 1TB HDD. Should come to about 700, give or take. It'd be a lot better than that Dell.



Thanks, I was actually doing a little research while you typed this I guess. How does what I have above look?

Would what you wrote in your quote make for a better build than what I came up with above? You won't hurt my feelings if you say yours is better  I just want the best I can get for my money


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## spirit (Nov 21, 2012)

All looks fine but you still need a graphics card and you'll need a higher wattage PSU. I recommend using a 7850 for your graphics card and a 600W quality PSU from one of the brands in my signature for your PSU.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

spirit said:


> All looks fine but you still need a graphics card and you'll need a higher wattage PSU. I recommend using a 7850 for your graphics card and a 600W quality PSU from one of the brands in my signature for your PSU.



Does a graphics card include a sound card? Or is there any negatives to not having a sound card if it doesn't?


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

spirit said:


> All looks fine but you still need a graphics card and you'll need a higher wattage PSU. I recommend using a 7850 for your graphics card and a 600W quality PSU from one of the brands in my signature for your PSU.



also are all 600w psu's made equal? If I limit my search to the PSU's you recommend and I find one that is $60 vs one that is $100, is there a difference?


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

spirit said:


> All looks fine but you still need a graphics card and you'll need a higher wattage PSU. I recommend using a 7850 for your graphics card and a 600W quality PSU from one of the brands in my signature for your PSU.



I know I could edit my past posts to make this one big post, but these are all different questions.

When I search Radeon 7850 on google, there is a VisionTek, Asus, and Sapphire version. Any differences between them?


Thanks again for all the help!


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm not sure which Radeon 7850 to pick, there's about 30 different versions?

http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/video-card/#c=81


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## Knut (Nov 21, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> I know I could edit my past posts to make this one big post, but these are all different questions.
> 
> When I search Radeon 7850 on google, there is a VisionTek, Asus, and Sapphire version. Any differences between them?
> 
> ...



Although I am a noob I know that some have other clockspeeds then others, other cooling designs and others are better at overclocking.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

Knut said:


> Although I am a noob I know that some have other clockspeeds then others, other cooling designs and others are better at overclocking.



This is the cheapest one that had 2GB of memory (instead of 1GB), do you think it is a good one? It's core speed is 860 MHz. I have no idea if those specs are great, lousy, or in between...

Graphics Card:
HIS IceQ X H785QN2G2M Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3938566&SID=
$190 but $150 after mail-in-rebate


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## spirit (Nov 21, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> Does a graphics card include a sound card? Or is there any negatives to not having a sound card if it doesn't?


Nope, doesn't include a sound card. You don't need a dedicated sound card, use the onboard sound on the motherboard.



ihaveacamaro said:


> also are all 600w psu's made equal? If I limit my search to the PSU's you recommend and I find one that is $60 vs one that is $100, is there a difference?


Yes there is a difference in quality and the parts used inside that PSU. The 600W PSU I keep on recommending is the Corsair CX 600. Cheap but good quality power. Just get that one.



ihaveacamaro said:


> When I search Radeon 7850 on google, there is a VisionTek, Asus, and Sapphire version. Any differences between them?


Some cards are factory overclocked, others not. Some have different/aftermarket coolers. Good if you like overclocking, if not then that's fine too. Some brands offer different warranties and guarantees. Personally, for Radeons, I like Sapphire and XFX. I used a Sapphire HD 5870 myself, awesome card from a great brand. MSI and ASUS and HIS are good too. They're all kind of similar at the end of the day. I wouldn't pay the extra for an overclocked card though. You can overclock it yourself later if you like.



ihaveacamaro said:


> I'm not sure which Radeon 7850 to pick, there's about 30 different versions?
> 
> http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/video-card/#c=81


I'd go for a Sapphire or an XFX one.


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## claptonman (Nov 21, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> So I'm doing some research on what I might like to get if I build my own computer... Think this would be better than the Dell?
> 
> Processor:
> AMD FX-8320 Eight-Core
> ...


That motherboard won't work. You'd want a AM3+ motherboard. I recommend:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514

Very good price for that board. I have the same one and it's great.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

spirit said:


> Nope, doesn't include a sound card. You don't need a dedicated sound card, use the onboard sound on the motherboard.
> 
> 
> Yes there is a difference in quality and the parts used inside that PSU. The 600W PSU I keep on recommending is the Corsair CX 600. Cheap but good quality power. Just get that one.
> ...



Thank you for your responses. Great turnaround time here on this forum! 

I know you said Sapphire or XFX one, but is there is significant difference between that and this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...1405&Tpk=HIS IceQ X H785QN2G2M Radeon HD 7850

What's the worst case scenario if I choose the cheaper one I linked to rather than Sapphire or XFX? I just want to be able to justify the extra $50 dollars for the same video card if I get Sapphire or XFX


Edit: I need to learn to read better, you said HIS is fine too. I guess I'll just stick with that since it is $50 cheaper


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

claptonman said:


> That motherboard won't work. You'd want a AM3+ motherboard. I recommend:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514
> 
> Very good price for that board. I have the same one and it's great.



Oh ok. Just out of curiosity sake, why don't they work together? Is it just a motherboard that's AMD incapable if that is even possible.

Want to learn as much as I can before I jump into this! 

Thanks!


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## claptonman (Nov 21, 2012)

A better warranty would be the main concern, but I had a HIS 4670 and it was absolutely fine. I see no reason not to get the HIS if it is cheaper.

It's incompatible because the socket type is different. The FX 8320 uses an AM3+ socket while the board you had was FM2, which is for the AMD APUs, which are CPUs with a GPU inside of it.

And yes, that's possible. If you have an Intel board, no AMD will ever fit into it.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

claptonman said:


> A better warranty would be the main concern, but I had a HIS 4670 and it was absolutely fine. I see no reason not to get the HIS if it is cheaper.
> 
> It's incompatible because the socket type is different. The FX 8320 uses an AM3+ socket while the board you had was FM2, which is for the AMD APUs, which are CPUs with a GPU inside of it.
> 
> And yes, that's possible. If you have an Intel board, no AMD will ever fit into it.



Gotcha, thanks for the help!

Yeah spirit said HIS was fine, I guess my eyes glazed over that part the first time I read his response. I'm just going to go with that one I think and the motherboard you recommend.


So... next question:

I plan on making this desktop and keeping it for the next 5 or so years. Do you think that it will stay in working condition? Are all the parts quality parts?


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## spirit (Nov 21, 2012)

Yeah all the parts should work fine.

And yes, the HIS is a good card.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

spirit said:


> Yeah all the parts should work fine.
> 
> And yes, the HIS is a good card.



Awesome, glad to hear 

What about relevancy? Five years ago, core 2 duo was making it's mainstream debut and it's all about gone now. Do you think that this build will still be a competent machine in 5 years?


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## spirit (Nov 21, 2012)

Yeah it'll still be pretty good. You can always upgrade the graphics card or anything else later if you feel you need to several years down the road. The CPU should be good for a while.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

spirit said:


> Yeah it'll still be pretty good. You can always upgrade the graphics card or anything else later if you feel you need to several years down the road. The CPU should be good for a while.



Sounds good to me!

Alright final check is coming at around $840. All parts good to go before I order?

Processor:
AMD FX-8320 Eight-Core
http://www.amazon.com/AMD-FX-Series-.../dp/B009O7YU56
$175

Graphics Card:
HIS IceQ X H785QN2G2M Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161405
$190 but $150 after mail-in-rebate


Motherboard: 
ASRock FM2A75 Pro4-M Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514
$100 after $10 rebate card


Memory: 
G.SKILL Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231546
$38


Storage:
Seagate ST2000DM001 Barracuda 7200RPM 3 TB SATA 6 GB/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148736
$90


Case:
Thermaltake Chaser MK-I System Cabinet
http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...tml?cid=123620
$160


Power Supply:
CORSAIR Builder Series CX600 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139028
$70


Optical Drive:
Lite-On IHES112-04 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Internal Internal 12X Blu-ray Combo Model 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106374
$55


Total: $840


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

Oh wow  The 3 TB hard drive that was $90 shipped with Amazon this morning is now 142. Well that sucks.


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## spirit (Nov 21, 2012)

Your links aren't working mate.


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## claptonman (Nov 21, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> Oh wow  The 3 TB hard drive that was $90 shipped with Amazon this morning is now 142. Well that sucks.



Newegg for the rescue:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

spirit said:


> Your links aren't working mate.



Weird, it seems if you use the newegg search engine then use the URL it is no good. I had to search google first click on the newegg link and then use that URL.


Fixed.

Thanks again for all your help


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## spirit (Nov 21, 2012)

Yeah your build looks good to me.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

claptonman said:


> Newegg for the rescue:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844



bam! Talk about rollercoaster of emotions... well not really but you get my idea 

Thanks for the link!



spirit said:


> Yeah your build looks good to me.



Awesome, now I just got to work out where the money is coming from, and off I go to building my first computer!

I've been watching this video to help and it's been really helpful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_56kyib-Ls

Is that good enough, or do you guys recommend reading more/watching more video?


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## spirit (Nov 21, 2012)

If you watched it the whole way through you should be all right. Everybody builds PCs slightly differently anyway.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

spirit said:


> If you watched it the whole way through you should be all right. Everybody builds PCs slightly differently anyway.



ok awesome, thank you again spirit and claptonman. You guys have been super helpful!


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

claptonman said:


> Newegg for the rescue:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844



...and it's gone again! I have no luck today apparently.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 21, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> ...and it's gone again! I have no luck today apparently.



well I actually refreshed the site and newegg had 1 in stock. This time, I wasn't going to lose out so I just went ahead and ordered it! Guess third time really is the charm lol

Edit: actually I didn't order the same one.

What's the difference between this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148736

and this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844


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## claptonman (Nov 21, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> well I actually refreshed the site and newegg had 1 in stock. This time, I wasn't going to lose out so I just went ahead and ordered it! Guess third time really is the charm lol
> 
> Edit: actually I didn't order the same one.
> 
> ...



I think the XT is an older model, that's why it's discontinued.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

claptonman said:


> I think the XT is an older model, that's why it's discontinued.



they both say discontinued though


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

question: Do you guys think any of the parts I listed for my build will be on sale for Black Friday/Cyber Monday?

question 2: Do you think going to the AMD FX -8350 instead of the 8320 will be worth a $25 dollar difference? And if I do that, would everything still work together?


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

question 3: This http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231489 is only 12 dollars more than the 8GB. Should I get it just because 12 dollars is so little for 8 extra GB of ram? Will it work fine with the motherboard?


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## spirit (Nov 22, 2012)

Answers:

1 - Maybe. Not sure.

2 - No, the 8350 is not worth the extra, stick with the 8320 and save money.

3 - Only get the extra RAM if you need it. For gaming, you don't need it, so save the money.

The money which you save on the RAM and the CPU you could maybe put into a better graphics card. Maybe go from a 7850 to a 7870?


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

what is the difference between core clock and effective core clock?


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

spirit said:


> The money which you save on the RAM and the CPU you could maybe put into a better graphics card. Maybe go from a 7850 to a 7870?



Is upgrading worth $11?


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## spirit (Nov 22, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> Is upgrading worth $11?



Put the 11 bucks and however much you save on the other stuff on a better graphics card. That's where the performance lies.

You'll see no difference between 8GB and 16GB of RAM. Trust me here, I went from 8GB to 16GB, admittedly for VMs, but in gaming there is no difference.


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## FuryRosewood (Nov 22, 2012)

I would just buy the dell and swap the PSU myself...but thats me. 700 dollars including a i7 and windows? thats pretty decent. you will spend a grand doing it yourself.


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## spirit (Nov 22, 2012)

FuryRosewood said:


> I would just buy the dell and swap the PSU myself...but thats me. 700 dollars including a i7 and windows? thats pretty decent. you will spend a grand doing it yourself.



Problem with the Dell is the graphics card is mediocre and the CPU is too high-end. It's an unbalanced system.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

well this was $40 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135252 and instead of paying $55 for a liteon that can only read BR, I got a faster, bigger cache Asus that can burn and read BR for less than the less capable Liteon.

Which means that I went with this for my Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102983 

Question again: What is the difference between core clock and effective core clock?


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## spirit (Nov 22, 2012)

Yeah you want the 7870!


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

spirit said:


> Yeah you want the 7870!



And it was a Sapphire this time, instead of HIS 

Thanks for all your help Spirit, you've been amazing!


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## StrangleHold (Nov 22, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> Question again: What is the difference between core clock and effective core clock?


 
If your talking about the video cards memory. Effective core clock is the memory quad pumped. Its real speed is 300mhz with so to speak 4 lanes.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

StrangleHold said:


> If your talking about the video cards memory. Effective core clock is the memory quad pumped. Its real speed is 300mhz with so to speak 4 lanes.



I am talking about the video card, sorry should have specified.

Do you mind noobing it down for me? I'm not sure I understand?


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## spirit (Nov 22, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> And it was a Sapphire this time, instead of HIS
> 
> Thanks for all your help Spirit, you've been amazing!


No problem!



ihaveacamaro said:


> I am talking about the video card, sorry should have specified.
> 
> Do you mind noobing it down for me? I'm not sure I understand?



Strangle's response was talking about graphics cards. He was talking about the memory on the video card.


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## StrangleHold (Nov 22, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> I am talking about the video card, sorry should have specified.
> 
> Do you mind noobing it down for me? I'm not sure I understand?


 
You have clock cycles. In single the data is sent on the rise on the clock cycle, its true clock speed. DDR the data is sent on the rise and falling of the clock cylce, double pumped. DDR5 data is sent on the, easy way of saying it. On the bottom/half rise/top/half down/bottom. Hence quad pumped, data can be sent 4 times on a single clock cycle. Effective core clock. Like this, it better to have 4 lanes with traffic going 400 MPH then a single lane going at 1600 MHP. Traffic clutter in a single lane.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

StrangleHold said:


> You have clock cycles. In single the data is sent on the rise on the clock cycle, its true clock speed. DDR the data is sent on the rise and falling of the clock cylce, double pumped. DDR5 data is sent on the, easy way of saying it. On the bottom/half rise/top/half down/bottom. Hence quad pumped, data can be sent 4 times on a single clock cycle. Effective core clock. Like this, it better to have 4 lanes with traffic going 400 MPH then a single lane going at 1600 MHP. Traffic clutter in a single lane.



gotcha so it's a similar situation of having 2 x 4 GB RAM rather than 1 x 8 GB RAM.

Makes sense to me, thanks! 

Now, I am just seeing if the fx 8320 will ever go on bf or cyber monday sale because pretty much everything else I bought was discounted in one way or another. Last thing to buy and then everything is bought! So excited!


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

Alright here's the final final build: 

Upgraded to 16 GB RAM since it was only $12 more and I do video editing.

Everything but the processor has been bought already.




Processor:
AMD FX-8320 Eight-Core
http://www.amazon.com/AMD-FX-Series-.../dp/B009O7YU56
$175

Graphics Card:
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition OC 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102983
$210


Motherboard: 
ASRock FM2A75 Pro4-M Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514
$110


Memory: 
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231489
$50


Storage:
Seagate ST2000DM001 Barracuda 7200RPM 3 TB SATA 6 GB/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148736
$90


Case:
Thermaltake Chaser MK-I System Cabinet
http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...tml?cid=123620
$160


Power Supply:
CORSAIR Builder Series CX600 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139028
$70


Optical Drive:
ASUS Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 12X DVD-RAM 8X BD-ROM 8MB Cache SATA Blu-ray Burner BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...c3grabb3r-_-Blu-Ray+Burners-_-ASUS-_-27135252
$75



Total Rebates = $100

Total Build without processor = $765 - $100 = $665

Total Build with Processor = $665 + $175 = $840

This is the same amount of money that I had posted earlier, but in the earlier one I hadn't accounted for all the rebates. So the earlier one was more like $800 and this one is $840. It is within my budget though, so I'm happy  Thank you everyone for your help!

I'm sure I'm still going to be asking more questions though so this thread might come back alive lol


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## StrangleHold (Nov 22, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> gotcha so it's a similar situation of having 2 x 4 GB RAM rather than 1 x 8 GB RAM.
> 
> Makes sense to me, thanks!


 
Sorta of. Now your talking single vs. dual channel. In dual channel both sticks can be write or read at the same time. In single channel all the data has to be read or write through a single channel to each stick.

In your scenario above with 2X4 vs. a single 8. Dual channel will improve performance slightly. The big difference will come in as say your runing 2/3/4 mis matched sticks and they are running a single channel vs. 2 or 4 sticks in dual channel.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

StrangleHold said:


> Sorta of. Now your talking single vs. dual channel. In dual channel both sticks can be write or read at the same time. In single channel all the data has to be read or write through a single channel to each stick.
> 
> In your scenario above with 2X4 vs. a single 8. Dual channel will improve performance slightly. The big difference will come in as say your runing 2/3/4 mis matched sticks and they are running a single channel vs. 2 or 4 sticks in dual channel.



Yeah I think I made the wrong analogy, but I understand what you're saying (both video card and RAM) and it makes sense to me 

Interesting info, so say you were running a 2 gb, a 6 gb, and an 8 gb single channel. You would see an improvement by switching to 2 8 gb dual channel?


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## StrangleHold (Nov 22, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> Interesting info, so say you were running a 2 gb, a 6 gb, and an 8 gb single channel. You would see an improvement by switching to 2 8 gb dual channel?


 
Exactly.

The motherboard link doesnt work.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

StrangleHold said:


> Exactly.


 




StrangleHold said:


> The motherboard link doesnt work.



Sorry about that, it's fixed now. Newegg links are really starting to piss me off. I don't understand why they have 2 links for their products and one works and one doesn't. Kind of frustrating. But oh well, this was the last time posting the build (well..maybe) anyways


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

what is crossfire and why is it useful? ie motherboard is crossfire supportable


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## StrangleHold (Nov 22, 2012)

It supports SLI and C/F. C/F is two AMD cards run together. SLI is two Nvidia cards run together.


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## spirit (Nov 22, 2012)

Can be more than two cards running together, up to four I believe.


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## StrangleHold (Nov 22, 2012)

Well on his board its only two way.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

StrangleHold said:


> It supports SLI and C/F. C/F is two AMD cards run together. SLI is two Nvidia cards run together.





spirit said:


> Can be more than two cards running together, up to four I believe.



when you say cards, you mean graphics cards right? If so, you mean people actually put 2 or more of these graphic cards in their computer


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## StrangleHold (Nov 22, 2012)

Yeah, two 7870 will scale pretty well. But right off I would take a single better card. Would not buy 2 7870, would get a 7950/7970. But if you cant afford a better single card you can upgrade to another 7870 later.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

StrangleHold said:


> Yeah, two 7870 will scale pretty well. But right off I would take a single better card. Would not buy 2 7870, would get a 7950/7970. But if you cant afford a better single card you can upgrade to another 7870 later.



I don't honestly think I will have any need for two graphics cards. I'm pretty sure the 1 7870 will fulfill all my needs lol

Plus yeah, that would be well out of my budget.


New question for curiosity sake: What is the difference between an AMD that has 8 cores vs an intel that has 4 cores but are hyperthreaded? Is that difference notable? I've always kind of wondered about this question but had no one to ask... until now


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## spirit (Nov 22, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> when you say cards, you mean graphics cards right? If so, you mean people actually put 2 or more of these graphic cards in their computer



Yeah!


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## claptonman (Nov 22, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> I don't honestly think I will have any need for two graphics cards. I'm pretty sure the 1 7870 will fulfill all my needs lol
> 
> Plus yeah, that would be well out of my budget.
> 
> ...



What motherboard did you buy? You said you bought everything but the CPU, right?


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## FuryRosewood (Nov 22, 2012)

spirit said:


> Problem with the Dell is the graphics card is mediocre and the CPU is too high-end. It's an unbalanced system.



Compared to what? its 700 freakin bucks, its a goddamn steal, if you cant see that well i cant help you there...


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 22, 2012)

claptonman said:


> What motherboard did you buy? You said you bought everything but the CPU, right?



I ordered the motherboard on the last page sorry i'm on my phone or I would link it. I'm thinking about returning it and getting an Intel motherboard because the i5 3570k is on sale at comp USA for 150 plus tax. What do you guys think?


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> I ordered the motherboard on the last page sorry i'm on my phone or I would link it. I'm thinking about returning it and getting an Intel motherboard because the i5 3570k is on sale at comp USA for 150 plus tax. What do you guys think?



Hope you guys had a great Turkey Day! If anybody is still awake/on the forum on this Black Friday, I would love if you could give me your input 

Intel i5 3570k or AMD 8320? Intel is $25 cheaper.


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## spirit (Nov 23, 2012)

I'd probably take the 3570K myself.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

spirit said:


> I'd probably take the 3570K myself.



Thanks, that's what I'm planning on.

Also, I ordered this mobo just now. Just want to verify it's a good one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131837 ?


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## wolfeking (Nov 23, 2012)

It is an okay board.  A bit low end, but it will work never the less.


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## spirit (Nov 23, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> Thanks, that's what I'm planning on.
> 
> Also, I ordered this mobo just now. Just want to verify it's a good one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131837 ?



Bit late to ask if it's good now that it's been ordered isn't it? 

Yeah it's a pretty decent board.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> It is an okay board.  A bit low end, but it will work never the less.





spirit said:


> Bit late to ask if it's good now that it's been ordered isn't it?
> 
> Yeah it's a pretty decent board.



I ordered but it probably won't ship for another day. I can cancel before then. Is there a better board that's worth it either of you guys would recommend?


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## wolfeking (Nov 23, 2012)

There is always a better board. That one will run just fine though.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> There is always a better board. That one will run just fine though.



Ive learned that future proofing is kind of impossible the last few days, but I would like to have somethingthat will still be relevant for five or so years. Do you think that this motherboard will do that? If it will then i'm perfectly happy with this motherboard


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## wolfeking (Nov 23, 2012)

no. Even a UP7 will not still be relevant in 5 years. No more than a 965P powered 775 board is still good today.   3 years will be about the length of service before you need an upgrade to keep on gaming an so on.  

I personally would go for a higher end board to stay relevant, but yours will be fine.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> no. Even a UP7 will not still be relevant in 5 years. No more than a 965P powered 775 board is still good today.   3 years will be about the length of service before you need an upgrade to keep on gaming an so on.
> 
> I personally would go for a higher end board to stay relevant, but yours will be fine.



any links to these boards? I'm not sure what to look for so I had to google good Intel motherboard to find the one I did above lol


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## wolfeking (Nov 23, 2012)

the lk is fine.   It will last as long as you are careful picking out teh rest of the components. 

As for higher end boards, something on the lines of the P8Z77-V, P8Z77-V PRO, Maximus, P8Z77-V Deluxe, or P8Z77 WS (I have the P67 version, and it is bloody amazing.).   Gigabyte boards to look at would have been the Z77X-UP4, UP5, or UP7. MSI would have been the Mpower. 

The board you have is fine, and will last, with the proper setup.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> the lk is fine.   It will last as long as you are careful picking out teh rest of the components.
> 
> As for higher end boards, something on the lines of the P8Z77-V, P8Z77-V PRO, Maximus, P8Z77-V Deluxe, or P8Z77 WS (I have the P67 version, and it is bloody amazing.).   Gigabyte boards to look at would have been the Z77X-UP4, UP5, or UP7. MSI would have been the Mpower.
> 
> The board you have is fine, and will last, with the proper setup.



Alright, I guess I'll stick with the one I ordered then  everything i've ordered is I believe on page 6 with the exception of a i5 5750 and the motherboard above. spirit helped me pick out a bunch of it soI assume that would qualify as a proper set up?


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## wolfeking (Nov 23, 2012)

yep. Jason is very good at setting up builds.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> yep. Jason is very good at setting up builds.



Awesome! He pretty much designed my entire build lol!

Btw, notice you're from NC so I have to say I LOVE Black Friday! Picked up the I5-3570K for $150 and the Chaser MK-1 Case for $90. Of course plus tax, so more like $260 total, but that's still saving $65 from what I was going to order from Newegg 

I was in the (relative to me) cold at 3 AM and left the store at 7 in the morning and I was smiling all the way on the ride back home lol!


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## wolfeking (Nov 23, 2012)

I live in NC, I am not from here. And the tax here adds 8% to the cost. When I buy things local, I go across the boarder to VA and save 3% on the tax. Does not sound like much, but it is %.30 on every $20 spent, and that adds up quick. 

And yea, he is pretty much a pro at it.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

Alright last time I post this build lol I promise. I have ordered or bought in a store all items for the prices listed. If bought IN STORE, I included 7% tax as well into the price as I am still paying that much money!

Processor:
Intel I5-3570K
IN STORE
$160

Graphics Card:
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition OC 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102983
$210


Motherboard: 
ASUS P8Z77-V LK LGA 1155 Intel Z77
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131837
$140


Memory: 
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231489
$50


Storage:
Seagate ST2000DM001 Barracuda 7200RPM 3 TB SATA 6 GB/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148736
$90


Case:
Thermaltake Chaser MK-I System Cabinet
IN STORE
$120


Power Supply:
CORSAIR Builder Series CX600 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139028
$70


Optical Drive:
ASUS Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 12X DVD-RAM 8X BD-ROM 8MB Cache SATA Blu-ray Burner BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...SUS-_-27135252
$75

Monitor:
Acer S211HL bd 22" Class LED Monitor - 1080p, 1920x1080, 12000000:1 Dynamic, 5ms, VGA, DVI
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6416892
$115

Generic Wireless Keyboard and Mouse:
IN STORE
$5


So including tax, 

Price Before Rebates: $915

Rebates: $110

Total Build Price: $805

Total Build Price including Monitor, Keyboard and mouse: $925


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

so should I OC the intel or should I just keep it stock?


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## wolfeking (Nov 23, 2012)

Are you getting/do you have, a aftermarket cooling solution? That will determine the answer. 

In all truth, OC it. OC your graphics and RAM too.  It is retarded to buy a k series CPU, a GPU in any case, and RAM, if you are not going to push it to its best performance. But you may want to stay where you are if you don't know what you are doing.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> Are you getting/do you have, a aftermarket cooling solution? That will determine the answer.
> 
> In all truth, OC it. OC your graphics and RAM too.  It is retarded to buy a k series CPU, a GPU in any case, and RAM, if you are not going to push it to its best performance. But you may want to stay where you are if you don't know what you are doing.



My entire build budget including monitor, keyboard and mouse was $1000. I'm at $925 right now, so I was looking at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099. Any good?

And the truth is I don't know what I'm doing, but I tend to think I catch on fairly well. If I can learn to build a computer on my own, I'm sure I could learn to OC properly, but as with everything I've been doing in the past few days, I will have to read a lot of threads/watch a bunch of youtube videos/and ask you guys. 

I'm scared to OC it, but if it's not too hard, I would think I can manage. Would you still recommend me doing it?


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

and what about warranty? Do cores normally fail if they are OCd?


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## wolfeking (Nov 23, 2012)

no need to watch a bunch of videos. Your board has a program called AS Suite II (may be III on yours). Just go in there, and select auto tune. It will OC your system for you to a point that it is stable and more or less 30% faster. It ramps mine up to 4.3GHz from stock (though manual at 4.8GHz is plainly faster). 

That cooler is not the best, its not even great. It is what I use, and given the chance, I would send it back and get something from Phanteks or Noctua, maybe even Artic.  The fan has failed after no more than 6 months of use, and it only cooled half decent to start with.  It will work, but there are better coolers out there.


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## wolfeking (Nov 23, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> and what about warranty? Do cores normally fail if they are OCd?


No. If you do it proper, and do not overvolt too much (watch temps too), then your CPU will not fail from it. 

*Barring unforeseen manufacturing defaults in the PSU, Motherboard, and CPU.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> no need to watch a bunch of videos. Your board has a program called AS Suite II (may be III on yours). Just go in there, and select auto tune. It will OC your system for you to a point that it is stable and more or less 30% faster. It ramps mine up to 4.3GHz from stock (though manual at 4.8GHz is plainly faster).
> 
> That cooler is not the best, its not even great. It is what I use, and given the chance, I would send it back and get something from Phanteks or Noctua, maybe even Artic.  The fan has failed after no more than 6 months of use, and it only cooled half decent to start with.  It will work, but there are better coolers out there.



anything from those brands, or a specific one?


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## wolfeking (Nov 23, 2012)

artic you need to look at the upper end ones. Phanteks and Noctua you can use any of them and come out ahead.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

is the RAM I bought "tall" ram?


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

Which one is better:

1) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608024

or 

2) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018

They are the same price after coupons.

Both seem to have issues with "tall" RAM. I'm not sure if I have that or not?

I'm convinced Newegg is changing their links on me. They work for a while and then stop. Here is my RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231489


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## spirit (Nov 23, 2012)

Hey your build looks pretty good. If you wanted a higher-end board than the one you chose I would say the P8Z77-V PRO is the next step up, or from the Gigabyte side either the Z77X-UD3H or the Z77X-UD5H

ASUS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131819

Gigabyte http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128544&Tpk=z77x-ud3h or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128545

Either one will work with a 3570K flawlessly. I've used the UD5H from Gigabyte before (but with an i7 3770). Awesome boards! Update the BIOS though before you do anything major with regards to overclocking, the older BIOSes for those boards (the ones from about April/May time when those boards first came out) have problems. The newer BIOSes fix those problems.

ASUS' auto overclock thing works nicely for me on my P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 and i5 2500K. Got it to 4.3GHz and has been rock solid. I just went into the BIOS and clicked on 'Performance' and I was done. You can overclock by raising voltages and multipliers too, but I don't have time for that.

The aftermarket cooler you chose is good for the money. Your 3570K should run nice and cool with it. I use an Arctic Cooling Freezer 13, works a treat and I believe it's cheaper.


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## wolfeking (Nov 23, 2012)

ihaveacamaro said:


> Which one is better:
> 
> 1) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608024
> 
> ...


your RAM is tall. That is an issue with every cooler out there. Even a 212+/evo has issue with tall ram. My Patriot G2 barely fits and it has one of the smallest heatsinks around.

Both coolers are the same design. One of them just comes with teh LGA2011 hardware that you do not need. 

I would go with a lower end noctua though. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608016 for example.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

spirit said:


> Hey your build looks pretty good. If you wanted a higher-end board than the one you chose I would say the P8Z77-V PRO is the next step up, or from the Gigabyte side either the Z77X-UD3H or the Z77X-UD5H
> 
> ASUS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131819
> 
> ...



Which cooler are you talking about since I listed 3 so far since you last posted?

If one of the noctua, then unfortunately, I will have hit my budget and can't get the better motherboard. If they hyper 212 evo, then I can get the more expensive mobo...


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> your RAM is tall. That is an issue with every cooler out there. Even a 212+/evo has issue with tall ram. My Patriot G2 barely fits and it has one of the smallest heatsinks around.
> 
> Both coolers are the same design. One of them just comes with teh LGA2011 hardware that you do not need.
> 
> I would go with a lower end noctua though. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608016 for example.



That noctua would fit without problems?


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## spirit (Nov 23, 2012)

The Noctua Wolfe linked to would be your best bet - or... how about something like an H50? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010 wouldn't have to worry about your RAM sticks being high with that.

One thing I will say though: I have all the bays on my board filled with high RAM DIMMs and I have a cooler installed. Admittedly the cooler is quite small and it is mounted the wrong way up, but it does clear all the RAM sticks.

If you went with that Noctua I'd get low profile RAM. Corsair Vengeance low profile would be good.

Edit: I was talking about the 212+ EVO.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

spirit said:


> The Noctua Wolfe linked to would be your best bet - or... how about something like an H50? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010 wouldn't have to worry about your RAM sticks being high with that.
> 
> One thing I will say though: I have all the bays on my board filled with high RAM DIMMs and I have a cooler installed. Admittedly the cooler is quite small and it is mounted the wrong way up, but it does clear all the RAM sticks.
> 
> ...



What are the advantages of liquid cooling vs a normal fan? Is liquid cooling much less predictable since the pump can fail?

I have no bias either way, just curious


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## spirit (Nov 23, 2012)

Temperatures are generally lower with liquid cooling, and you won't have to worry about the height of your RAM DIMMs.


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

spirit said:


> Temperatures are generally lower with liquid cooling, and you won't have to worry about the height of your RAM DIMMs.



Ok I'm going to go ahead with the Asus mobo you recommended and the liquid cooling so I don't have to worry about RAM physical size.

Damn, going a little over the budget but what can you do? There shouldn't be anything else needed right? Because this is maxing out the budget and I wouldn't be able to afford anything else.


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## spirit (Nov 23, 2012)

No you're pretty much good to go I think!


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

spirit said:


> No you're pretty much good to go I think!



Could you please verify if this http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php...e7b25ada9bd5&gclid=CNP4yIPz5bMCFQGFnQodxCYAsw

and this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131819


are the same?


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

nope they are not one is micro and the other isn't


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## spirit (Nov 23, 2012)

Yeah don't get the mATX one, get the ATX one (the Newegg one).


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 23, 2012)

spirit said:


> Yeah don't get the mATX one, get the ATX one (the Newegg one).



Ok ordered the Mobo from Newegg and found the H50 for better price on Ebay.

I'm just going to stop saying I'm done because everytime I've said that, I've changed something lol 

Hope I don't get killed on shipping two other Mobos back lol


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## ihaveacamaro (Nov 26, 2012)

1) With the H50 cooling system, do I need to replace the coolant? 

2) And if I have to, how do I do this and how often do I need to?


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## spirit (Nov 27, 2012)

I don't think you do have to replace the coolant. It's an all-in-one cooler.


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## ihaveacamaro (Dec 3, 2012)

Finished build!! (Case is on now):







Full Specs:

Processor:
Intel I5-3570K
IN STORE
$160

Graphics Card:
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition OC 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready
CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102983
$210

Motherboard:
ASUS P8Z77-V PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131819
$180

Memory:
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231489
$50

Storage:
Seagate ST2000DM001 Barracuda 7200RPM 3 TB SATA 6 GB/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148736
$90

Case:
Thermaltake Chaser MK-I System Cabinet
IN STORE
$120

Power Supply:
CORSAIR Builder Series CX600 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139028
$70

Optical Drive:
ASUS Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 12X DVD-RAM 8X BD-ROM 8MB Cache SATA Blu-ray Burner
BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...SUS-_-27135252
$75

Monitor:
Acer S211HL bd 22" Class LED Monitor - 1080p, 1920x1080, 12000000:1 Dynamic, 5ms, VGA, DVI
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=6416892
$115

V7 Wireless Keyboard and Mouse:
IN STORE
$20

CORSAIR Hydro series H50
EBAY
$60

So including tax,

Price Before Rebates: $945

Rebates: $110

Total Build Price: $835

Total Build Price including Monitor, Keyboard and mouse: $970


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## ihaveacamaro (Dec 3, 2012)

spirit said:


> I don't think you do have to replace the coolant. It's an all-in-one cooler.



Ok cool thanks


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## wolfeking (Dec 3, 2012)

holycablemanagement.jpg 

Good build, but them wires need to be hidden.


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## ihaveacamaro (Dec 3, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> holycablemanagement.jpg
> 
> Good build, but them wires need to be hidden.



Yeah I know, first time newbie over here sucks with the cable management. Unfortunately, some of the cables were kind of short on the Corsair PSU, so I had to make do with them sticking out. Same issue with the H50. That's why it looks so messy


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## wolfeking (Dec 3, 2012)

Something that Coolermaster and subpar OCZ PSUs have taught me is that no cable is ever too short. Just sometimes you have to go shadetree engineer on it to make it work.  Assuming it was the EPS, in my sace there are 2 ways to do it. 1. attach cable with the PSU unscrewed, and then ever so gently stretch it to attach to the case. or 2: run the cable under the motherboard.


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## ihaveacamaro (Dec 3, 2012)

wolfeking said:


> Something that Coolermaster and subpar OCZ PSUs have taught me is that no cable is ever too short. Just sometimes you have to go shadetree engineer on it to make it work.  Assuming it was the EPS, in my sace there are 2 ways to do it. 1. attach cable with the PSU unscrewed, and then ever so gently stretch it to attach to the case. or 2: run the cable under the motherboard.



Apart from looking bad, is there a problem if cables are just left out like mine. I may just leave it until I have much more time to work on it? Already behind on a lot of other stuff so that this computer could be made lol


----------



## spirit (Dec 3, 2012)

Yeah if the cables are just laying around they can restrict airflow and dust settles on them.


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## ihaveacamaro (Dec 3, 2012)

spirit said:


> Yeah if the cables are just laying around they can restrict airflow and dust settles on them.



Alright, I'll try to see if I can make it cleaner when I get the chance probably next weekend


----------

