# How do people get caught downloading?



## asdfguy

How do people get caught downloading music/movies..and such.  I keep hearing all these stories of people getting busted but I don't understand how.  Are they getting caught w/ P2P or on newsgroups or what?  I don't get it.  Are ISP's keeping track of bandwith and waiting for flags to go up?  Or do they look for people like me to start talking about it?


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## Calibretto

I think they track you down by your IP address. Don't know for sure.


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## SAAER45

Getting nervous about stealing music, huh?


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## bigsaucybob

If you dont do it, then you dont have to worry about it.


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## WeatherMan

My county has started taking action against it now, I heard that a few months back 2 men had been fined £250 for it


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## cell4me

They get you for sharing...the riaa will download a song and then they browse host (THATS YOU) and your ip address is displayed on p2p programs and when they see you are sharing 5000 mp3's they file a court order to find out who the owner is of that ip. I dont promote illegal filesharing but I do like to share other files and in order to protect my privacy I turn off the share my files option and run this http://phoenixlabs.org/ peerguardian its like a fire wall for p2p programs.


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## bigsaucybob

cell4me said:
			
		

> They get you for sharing...the riaa will download a song and then they browse host (THATS YOU) and your ip address is displayed on p2p programs and when they see you are sharing 5000 mp3's they file a court order to find out who the owner is of that ip. I dont promote illegal filesharing but I do like to share other files and in order to protect my privacy I turn off the share my files option and run this http://phoenixlabs.org/ peerguardian its like a fire wall for p2p programs.



so you can only get caught for sharing files but not for downloading them?


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## Dr Studly

they don't get you for downloading... they get you for uploading... (as downloading is legal, uploading isn't) usually you are uploading and you don't know it...
whatever thing you might be using to download music, make sure you go into the settings and turn off anything that has to do with uploaing or sharing



			
				bigsaucybob said:
			
		

> so you can only get caught for sharing files but not for downloading them?


correct


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## asdfguy

I know it's illeagal to upload in Canada, I didn't know about the US.  What about newsgroups?  Everyone I know swears by P2P but I don't get the attraction.


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## Smoko

Encore4More said:
			
		

> as downloading is legal, uploading isn't



... So, piracy isn't against the law? I'm fine to go and download all the music/movies/games and software I want? Idiot.

You get caught by downloading/uploading and bragging. On P2P programs, they look at IP's that are downloading and uploading. Look at logs servers. It mainly consists of that.


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## jjsevdt

*Sorry, but i'm not*



			
				Smoko said:
			
		

> ... So, piracy isn't against the law? I'm fine to go and download all the music/movies/games and software I want? Idiot.


 
Now, now.  There really is no need for name calling, after all this is just a computer forum.

Anyway, they are MOST concerned with people sharing (providing) the content, because if you think about it it's not available to obtain illeagally unless it's being provided by some one.  But you're only a teenager, I don't expect you to look at things logiacally.


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## Smoko

jjsevdt said:
			
		

> Now, now.  There really is no need for name calling, after all this is just a computer forum.



There is plenty of need.



			
				jjsevdt said:
			
		

> Anyway, they are MOST concerned with people sharing (providing) the content, because if you think about it it's not available to obtain illeagally unless it's being provided by some one.  But you're only a teenager, I don't expect you to look at things logiacally.



I really hope you are kidding about not thinking logically because of my age. You never hear "* being sued by * for sharing *". It's "* being sued by * for downloading *", except for when it's a torrent site involved, but that hardly happens now days because of where they locate their trackers.


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## cell4me

Smoko said:
			
		

> You never hear "* being sued by * for sharing *". It's "* being sued by * for downloading *", except for when it's a torrent site involved, but that hardly happens now days because of where they locate their trackers.



They catch you uploading and then browsing the host (YOU) and if you have 5000mp3's that you are sharing illegally then they sue you not for downloading or uploading...the lawsuit will be for illegal file sharing, thats the way it works, http://www.riaa.com/news/newsletter/042804.asp

They dont have trackers and all this other crap installed at your isp or servers, they have to know what isp address is uploading all the mp3's browse it and then file a court order to see who it belongs to.

How do I know this? Because I know someone who the RIAA tried to sue. He won the case though on a bunch of technicalities though such as he used a laptop on a unprotected wireless network in an apartment complex and anyone in that building could have been using his isp to share files and they have to proove beyond a reasonable doubt that in fact it was you doing it.


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## Smoko

Basically what you are saying there is, I can use all the P2P I want with File Sharing disabled and never get caught. And that is completely wrong.


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## Filip

Good for me that Croatian government don't care about that stuff so you can do whatever you want with your internet connection....


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## OvenMaster

asdfguy said:
			
		

> I know it's illeagal to upload in Canada, I didn't know about the US.  What about newsgroups?  Everyone I know swears by P2P but I don't get the attraction.


The attraction is that what you download is free. When hundreds of thousands of people download music for free instead of paying for it, the RIAA takes notice. Why? Because they aren't getting their piece of the pie, called "royalties". So they make a stink and start monitoring people and suing them.

"Money talks. And when money talks, people listen." -- Thurston Howell III

Tom


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## cell4me

Smoko said:
			
		

> Basically what you are saying there is, I can use all the P2P I want with File Sharing disabled and never get caught. And that is completely wrong.


Basically what I am saying is dont do it and you have nothing to worry about. But the topic of this thread was (How do people get caught downloading?) And I was just sharing some insite on how they infact do catch you...P2P programs are a great tool, I use them for for sharing PLC programs to run our automated assembly lines at work through direct connect, how ever all my music has been paid for. There are many files that are legal to download and share on P2P programs as well such as pictures and movie trailers, freeware ect ect...!


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## asdfguy

Ok, let's look at this a little deeper then.  




			
				OvenMaster said:
			
		

> The attraction is that what you download is free. When hundreds of thousands of people download music for free instead of paying for it, the RIAA takes notice. Why? Because they aren't getting their piece of the pie, called "royalties". So they make a stink and start monitoring people and suing them.




In comparison, P2P is free opposed to usenet services which you subscribe to.  I would have to assume that since thier is no money in P2P, they would turn thier attention to Usenet Service Providers for "their piece of the pie".  Technically, if I unerstand things correctly, thier server would be considered the host in possesion of a bunch of illeagally obtained material.  I understand that the USP can't controll what people upload, but it would seem obvious to go where the money is.  

What they should do is request a percentage of each users subsciprtion fee and let the user have a free for all as long as the copywrite owner registers the content as "Downloadable".  Turn it into one huge media compnay (The RIAA) w/ a bunch of little affiliates (Copywrite Owners).  DL'ing from usnet would wipe out P2P since you can get better quality and faster DL's.  At least, thats my opinion...what do I know?

But then again, that's all I need, another tax and more regulations.


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## planes891

i hate the riaa lol


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## The Astroman

Smoko said:
			
		

> ... So, piracy isn't against the law? I'm fine to go and download all the music/movies/games and software I want? Idiot.



Nobody uploads, nobody can download...


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## apj101

#20 posts of pure crap

*FACTS*
You can get caught downloading and uploading

Your ip addy is stored on the varying trackers used to make p2p's operate, how else can you download

If caught the fine is unlimited in many countries, including the US, Canada, and EU, including new member states in the process of ratification.

It is just as illegal to download as well as upload.

p2p networks die without uploaders

Piracy stiffles software development, independent programmers, writers, et al

*BULL CRAP*
If I dont upload I want get caught... wrong, your ip is freely viewable by everyone

It is ok/legal for me to download...wrong, although there is a legal distinction the punishments are the same.

If i use a proxy server i will be ok.. wrong, many proxies log user activity and a cooperate with anti-piracy authorities to catch illegal downloaders.


And one last *fact*, this thread is dangerously close to being closed


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## Dr Studly

apj101 said:
			
		

> illegal downloaders.


*FACT:* law does *not* say anything about downloading copyrighted material being illeagle, it says *distributing* is illeagle... hate to break it to you... 
we aren't asking if you like it or not,  we are asking if it is leagle...


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## PRIVATEpastry

Yep.  Just don't share your music/movies and you'll be a-o.k.


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## 4W4K3

P2P is totally legal as long as what's being downloaded/uploaded is freeware or non-copyrighted, etc.

I'd imagine downloading copyright material is still illegal. But distributing it (or sharing) is even more of a crime, and the fines/penalty escalate if you're caught sharing as well as downloading.


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## apj101

Encore4More said:
			
		

> *FACT:* law does *not* say anything about downloading copyrighted material being illeagle, it says *distributing* is illeagle... hate to break it to you...


Wrong...
just because you heard your friend say so, or your dad, or may have read someone somewhere saying "its ok as long as you don’t upload", does not make it true! Don’t discuss topics of law if you haven’t read them

I see you are from the US so I’ll give you US law. The U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act of December 1998 specifically prohibits the obtaining of a copy of downloaded material protected under copyright with the exception of copying previously owned material for your own use... this last comment links back to Copyright Act of 1976 as 17 U.S.C. Section 107, for the topic of Fair use and fair dealing, and Audio Home Recording Act Codified in Section 10, 1992 to the same effect.

I’m sure you wouldn't have said your comments without doing the necessary background reading, but for other readers please don’t take my word for it, read the Act yourself. http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf



> we aren't asking if you like it or not,  we are asking if it is leagle...


Maybe before you start reading difficult stuff like legislative bills, you should practice by reading the original question. He was not asking for the legalities of the issue.



> P2P is totally legal as long as what's being downloaded/uploaded is freeware or non-copyrighted, etc.


People often think that copyright is something you have to apply for, and probably pay for. But for the most part copyright is almost like a property right. Thus, as with property, a copyright need not be granted or obtained through official registration with the government. Once an idea has been reduced to material form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape or a letter), the copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights.



> But distributing it (or sharing) is even more of a crime, and the fines/penalty escalate if you're caught sharing as well as downloading.


Are you quoting from case law, or your arse?


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## 4W4K3

apj101 said:
			
		

> Are you quoting from case law, or your arse?



No, I applied what I thought was common sense.

You can be charged for downloading. You can also be charged for distributing.

If you were simply downloading, lets say they fined you $100. But if you were also distributing, there would be an additional fine of another $100. So, the fine is increased if you were doing both, no?

I thought the fine was based on the amount of illegally obtained software/music etc. you had?

I'm not saying this is right, this is just what I assumed to be true. Feel free to correct me. my "arse" has nothing to do with it.


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## apj101

> I thought the fine was based on the amount of illegally obtained software/music etc. you had?


now that much is probably true, from a case law perspective. But statue doesnt really care, nor does it care if you upload or download. And £200 is a light fine.

To correct a previous comment, maximum penatly in the US is laid down in No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997, at 3 years in jail and $250k fines + damages


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## PRIVATEpastry

apj, are you a lawyer over there in London?

Haha, nice job shooting everyone down, by the way.


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## asdfguy

Ok, my entire question STILL has yet to be answered.  Forget all the legal BS.  I don't care.  *I want to know how people get caught.*This thread has gotten WAY off topic.  I understand the idea with regards to P2P.  But no one has yet to address newsgroups.  Is no one getting caught on newsgroups, if so, why not?  I don't want to hear "because it's only illegal if...BLAH!"  I only hear about P2P, not newgroups.  WHY!?  The answer could be as simple as "because it's easier to catch them".  I'd be fine with that, but only tell me that if you know it.  Don't make up some BS that your sisters boyfriends mothers baby daddy told you.


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## elmarcorulz

It was answered. They get your IP, apply to ISP to find out who it belongs too then go to your house and arrest you.


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## dragon2309

PRIVATEpastry said:
			
		

> apj, are you a lawyer over there in London?
> 
> Haha, nice job shooting everyone down, by the way.


it doesnt matter if he is or he isnt, he knows what hes talking about and you obviously dont, and "shooting down", i think you'll find that was called "correcting", correcting your WRONG statments....

dragon


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## apj101

dragon2309 said:
			
		

> it doesnt matter if he is or he isnt, he knows what hes talking about and you obviously dont, and "shooting down", i think you'll find that was called "correcting", correcting your WRONG statments....
> 
> dragon


well it was more Encore4More i was correcting, PRIVATEpastry just got caught in the cross fire


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## SFR

I have deleted PRIVATEpastry's most recent post for his foul mouth...


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## dragon2309

SFR said:
			
		

> I have deleted PRIVATEpastry's most recent post for his foul mouth...


that was prob for the best then, i didnt see it, was it aimed at me.... or apj101...??

dragon


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## OvenMaster

4W4K3 said:
			
		

> No, I applied what I thought was common sense.


Forget common sense. We're talking law. The two are often worlds apart 
Tom


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## Smoko

Finally. People are starting to understand what I was trying to say.

Downloading copywritten stuff is just as illegal as uploading, and you are just as likely to get caught.

Thanks to those who cleared it up.


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## suprasteve

back to the question, I think you're much more likely to get caught at a business or college campus than you would be at your house, but you can get in trouble anywhere


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## 4W4K3

Well yah, they probably have someone monitoring network activity. If you're torrenting you use certain ports that probably wouldn't see much activity...so when they are firing at all cylinders 24/7 they know something's up.

Lots of college's actually have there own sharing network, where student's can exchange info and the like. They probably aren't recognized or maintained by the campus, but if i walk on the Quad-C campus here in Frisco I can see alot of open connections/networks.


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## Dr Studly

apj101 said:
			
		

> Wrong...
> just because you heard your friend say so, or your dad, or may have read someone somewhere saying "its ok as long as you don’t upload", does not make it true! Don’t discuss topics of law if you haven’t read them


actually, that isn'thow it happened, my parents didn't allow me to use file-sharing programs unless i showed them the law about it if it was leagle or not, so i had to look it up for them  so i didn't hear that from someone, i had to find the law


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## 4W4K3

You "found" the law? Where was it? lol


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## suprasteve

4W4K3 said:
			
		

> Lots of college's actually have there own sharing network, where student's can exchange info and the like.


I used to use I2hub till it got shut down, heard the RIAA got into it though too


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## Dr Studly

4W4K3 said:
			
		

> You "found" the law? Where was it? lol


google


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## SFR

Encore4More said:
			
		

> google


 
Encore4More, if you are going to make the kinds of statements you previously made, you should site _specific_ sources where you got your information.


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## Dr Studly

SFR said:
			
		

> Encore4More, if you are going to make the kinds of statements you previously made, you should site _specific_ sources where you got your information.


i sent a link to my friend, i'll get it back as soon as possible so there will never ever be a dispute on CF if downloading is illeagle or not


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## SFR

Encore4More said:
			
		

> so there will never ever be a dispute on CF if downloading is illeagle or not


 



Is that a question or an observation?


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## Dr Studly

SFR said:
			
		

> Is that a question or an observation?


it is y i will try to find my old source...

cus then you all will have to beleive me whether u like it or not...


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## 4W4K3

Is this a global law or specific to a certain country? I'm thinking we're just talking about the U.S. here, cuz' I know you can sell pirated software on the streets of some countries...


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## Dr Studly

4W4K3 said:
			
		

> Is this a global law or specific to a certain country? I'm thinking we're just talking about the U.S. here, cuz' I know you can sell pirated software on the streets of some countries...


i am talking about the U.s.
but i am not talking about selling, i think selling pirated stuff is baisically illeagle everywhere... (that would go with the "distribution of copyrighted material is punishible by law") that is the highest punushed piracy there is i think...


btw, SFR how do u have a gif as ur avatar, it won't let me


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## SFR

*As for this thread...*

I have no idea why I have let this thread continue. There are been a ton of threads on this very topic... and each time a new thread pops up I have to remind people that they SHOULD base their arguments on facts that they can back up with a trusted source...

Encore4More, if you find your 'end all arguments' link that is from a trusted, respectable source... send me a private message and I will re-open this thread..  



			
				Encore4More said:
			
		

> btw, SFR how do u have a gif as ur avatar, it won't let me


 
that kind of question is why this forum allows you to send Private Messages...


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