# Waterproof motherboard?



## john.griffiths1

Hey guys, im not sure if this is the right section to ask in, but i want to create an underwater PC. The brief is to put a mini itx system in a working fish tank with real live fishes and everything! Any thoughts? Any help greatly appreciated!


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## evilxp2800

lol dont u wil kill the fishes


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## Cromewell

You could encase the motherboard in a container with fluorinert I suppose but I don't think it would be good for the fish if any leaked...


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## Geoff

i think your pc would fry if you didnt have some sort of tube extending from the pc to the outside of the fish tank, there would be no place for the air to go.  And if you got it in the water without water getting in it, how would you put CD's in?


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## apj101

Wicked idea!!!!! i love reading stuff like this

how are you planning on cooling this puppy? You could water cool the cpu, and gpu for that matter but you'd need to have the pipes coming out of the tank. The general heat in the case may cause the water temp to raise, which may be a problem for your fish.

Plus the water temp will very a lot depending on if you have the box on or not, and fishes like a constant temperature, so you will need to leave the pc on 24/7.
No matter what you do there will have to be some outside contact. If you submerge the thing in fluorinert (actually it doesn't have to be fluorinert you could even use vegetable oil - its non conductive and has good thermal capacity) you will still need some kind of a pump to allow to flourinert to heat exchange away from the case. If you choose not to use flourinert then you'll need two exhausts one air in (probable need to be air conditioned somehow) and one air out. 

You could just leave the top of the pc, but then that kind of defeats the point of submerging it.

Personally i think a better bet may be to redesign the fish tank so as to have a sealed hole/well in the bottom (made out of clear plastic) and then place the tank over the pc. This way it looks like the pc is in the tank, but really it doesn't make contact with the water, but even then you have the ventelation issue.

you may want to read 
http://www.octools.com/ramil/newscientist/faster.htm
http://nobispro.com/aquatank/
http://www.eppenga.com/folder.php?id=21
http://www.octools.com/index.cgi?caller=articles/submersion2/day1.html

i will post more later


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## apj101

there is another thread about this 
http://www.computerforum.com/showthread.php?t=11270


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## Praetor

> And if you got it in the water without water getting in it, how would you put CD's in?


Who said the CDdrive was underwater?



> how are you planning on cooling this puppy


Well.... submersion cooling  Of course with fishies youll want to avoid fans too.


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## john.griffiths1

Basicaly i am trying to get the motherboard and the connected components as close as possible so i will not be using a conventional 3.5" hardrive, but a 4gb Compact flash card with the operating system and what have you on. The cd i am trying to do away with completly, but if i was forced to get one, it would be external (hopefully Wireless-USB if and when they ever get round to giving it to us!) thus resulting in a complete system in one unit, which will be easier to insulate from the water. The mini itx currently runs at about 30 degrees c with a copper heatsink, but when it is in the tank it will be water cooled. They will be tropical fish aswell so will enjoy the temperature anyway. Submersion cooling was an option but as praetor noticed, fishes dont like fluorinert! The ideal solution is to dip the whole lot in PVA glue (or something that would actually work.) and drop it in the tank and hope for the best. One of the main problems at the moment is seperating the motherboard and attached components from the water. Thanks for all you help so far, especially apj101. Cheers!


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## john.griffiths1

O and also is there any way I can delete stupid posts like "lol dont u wil kill the fishes" from evilxp2800? They are just cluttering up this post from the serious business. Admin please help!


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## Praetor

> Admin please help!


Freedom of speech. Subject to my dictatorship. Granted it is cluttering however I'll let it slide now as I dont suspect anymore clutter to come here  (if it does, it'll be dealt with)


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## Geoff

the whole computer would be underwater, and unless the cd drives are usb, they would have to be in the water


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## Praetor

> and unless the cd drives are usb, they would have to be in the water


You can have the cd drive outside of water and the cables snaking out


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## Geoff

I think he was looking for the computer to be "completely" submerged in water, not the cd drive above water


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## Hairy_Lee

you'd have to make sure your system is stable as hell before you putting it into a fish tank.
i was thinking that you could use water cooling for the various chips (no not the fish tank water ) and have the motherboard etc with the water cooling hoses and blocks encased in a block of perspex... dunno how that would work with regards to heat but it'd be pretty damn permenant lol.
a water-tight tub with your motherboard mounted inside would be a better idea tho


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## M0ddingMan1a

underwater pc... u are too crazy. i personally wouldnt risk it, but if ur rich, then go right ahead!!!!!1 lol. but if u afraid of ur mobo getting wet, then y dont u just make like a plexy glass "fishtank" or w/e like a box, and put the stuff in there.


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## john.griffiths1

The "_gubbins_" tub was a last resort really, but ultimatly the most practical. It would  have hoses sucking the air in and blowing it out so would also be kept cool especially with the water cooling. The question is though, what can i sealmy motherboard with to stop water getting to it? It needs to be 100% see through, non toxic to the fishees, and also pretty non electro conductive would be good aswell! Cheers for all the help so far guys, its been invaluble!


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## Hairy_Lee

i remember seeing something a while ago on the television something having trophies sealed inside a block of clear perspex; i also remember them saying that they would put almost anything in perspex.

i've tried a quick search on google for it but i cant seem to find anything. hope the info helps if you can follow it up


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## john.griffiths1

another option i have just thought of is vacuum forming around the gubbins (the 'board,ram,psu,cf hdd,etc) which, for thouse who dont know, is when you heat up plastic so it gets a bit flexible, and then suck it down really hard onto the object underneath, completly encasing it in plastic. But as hairy lee noticed, the system would have to be damn stable before I embalm it in plastic, unless it was somehow removable. hmmmmm...Would the vacuum forming follow all the properties listed in my last post? Would i be able to remove it again afterwards? So many questions, so few reasonable replies!


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## Hairy_Lee

a difficulty with what you mentioned there is the pressure involved... i did some work with plastics in school and the main problem here is the force being exerted on items such as the capacitors.

in order to prevent this you could mount a sheet of glass or plastic on the underside and upper side of the motherboard to create a gap to protect the electronics.

if you use this in conjunction with the vacuum formed plastic you could get at the motherboard itself by cutting the plastics off... but you'd have to get it reformed every time you want to put it back again


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## john.griffiths1

Hmmm. I could get it vaccum formed in a two piece shell, and seal it with some sort of putty that i could cut through and repaste everytime. This link was in another post on here, so i stole it. http://home.versatel.nl/robertstoppels/274_big.jpg .This is what i want to create, but without the perspex box, and the board mounted at an incline facing the front of the tank. My project will have fish aswell.


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## Hairy_Lee

so basically you want to have your mobo and connected components sealed in such a way that it looks like its not in a box... more like a sealing "film"?


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## john.griffiths1

http://www.markusleonhardt.de/en/oelbilder.html something else i just found. This is pretty much exactly what i want to create, only a lot neater and with fishes swimming around in the tank.


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## john.griffiths1

youve got it 100% bob on lee! I'd shrink wrap the motherboard and connected components if i could!


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## Geoff

you still have the question of getting at the power switch, cd drive, floppy drive, and reset switch. lol


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## Hairy_Lee

those pics look like they've just lobbed their motherboard in a tank of oil lol.... if im correct they're using something similar that ive used in work for high voltage transformers... an insulating oil... wouldn't wanna touch the components after its been in that tho.

i dont know if you can get this sort of stuff but you could try dipping it in a thermoplastic, im not sure if it would be clear; it might be slightly opaque at best. dip the unit in liquid thermoplastic, let it set and repeat until ur sure its all in.... once again we arrive at the problem with servicing the system.

im trying to think of clever ways to solve this but its late and my brain hurts


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## AMDCam

Dude, GREAT idea. I think I've seen something like that before, with fish. There's gotta be a way, because that would look so sweet. Cooling shouldn't really be a problem if you keep the water climate controlled, and there's no chemicals on the motherboard that would kill fish I assume. Maybe you could somehow laminate (with high thermal resistance) all the parts that don't need to be cooled to prevent shortages. And what I'm thinking you want to do is stand the motherboard up (like vertically) in the fishtank like you got pissed and threw it in, but there are other ways. What if you made a case (like with a side window that gaming PC's have) and mounted some glass around the window with fish? It would simulate a fishtank built-in to the case, and you wouldn't have to worry about protecting your hardware. I really can't think of how you would do this stuff but if you get this thing to work SWEET!!!!!! Good luck dude, hope it works.


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## apj101

I see, i was thinking of something slightly different when i posted my suggestions. Hmm, i have to say (and this i just a personell opinion) i think it will always look a mess with cable all over the shop. I do like to first image you posted with the perspex box. I think that you should think about coming half way, set up a sort of perspex tray/shelf suspend in the middle of the tank on which to attach the mobo and bit and bobs. You are really going to have to be tidy with the cables. Maybe cut a few holes in the tray and run the cables for the hdd, power, swtiches, etc under the tray hence under the mobo. Then wrap it in you clear perspex / whatever
You really need to think about how your going to cool the cpu, you are certainly going to need water cooled, florinert seems out. If you vacumm form it that may work, i dont think the forces will distroy the onboard components as long as it done slowly and the vacumm forms equally around each component. But i think you will stuggly to get one that look very clear. You going to need a large gromit for all your cables the enter the tank. 
Personally i would make a small clear sealed perspex box, and put the bits in, add one gromit hole for all the cables and cooling pipes. This would be very easy to do. Once you have the water in the tank i dont think you will notice the perspex any more or less tha you would a vacumm formed "skin" around the board. You could suspend the clear box at an angle in the middle of the tank, put some bright leds in it,  bit of gravel on top, and a small water plant. maybe even a little castle for the fish. You will need an air pump to oxygenate the water for the fish, you could put this under the clear perspex box and the bubbles would raise and hit the bottom of the box and then spread round it which would look cool, kind of like you board was fizzing.
Also i just thought!, you should take a normal pc case (one that looks cool and is quite big).then mount all your components on the case pretty much as normal. Replace the side of your pc with a clear perspex, of even a high % lead glass (which may be too expensive). Then seal the case completely (which would be easy), you could put the box straight in the water and then place the original side (which you replaced with clear perspex) at a random angle from the box, the effect will look like you have dropped the whole case in the tank and side had fallen off but yet it still works!! That would look loads cooler. It will look like a computer dropped in a fish tank rather than a bunch of PCBs scattered in a mess in a fish tank. You could combine ideas, eg vacumm forming the mobo, and still mounting it in the case (this way you dont have to seal the case).


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## john.griffiths1

I could vacuum form the motherboard and connected components in such a way that i could include the water cooling components, and the required pipes for a decent air flow system. This would surely keep all the components well ventilated and watertight enough?


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## john.griffiths1

Ive got it! Apj101 is right. A comprimise is nesersary. The perspex waterproof tub for the electronics is obviously the most sensible option but asthetically not what I was after at all. So hows about turning one of these http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/singing-fish-original.jpg
into a watertight computer case? I could then mount him on a bit of a cam style wheel and look like he's having a bit of a swim! Slightly more logical, and asthetically a lot more amusing!


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## Travo925

john.griffiths1 said:
			
		

> Ive got it! Apj101 is right. A comprimise is nesersary. The perspex waterproof tub for the electronics is obviously the most sensible option but asthetically not what I was after at all. So hows about turning one of these http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/singing-fish-original.jpg
> into a watertight computer case? I could then mount him on a bit of a cam style wheel and look like he's having a bit of a swim! Slightly more logical, and asthetically a lot more amusing!



No offense, but I think that by doing that would be just a waste of time. You should try for the original plan. There _must_ be a way to do this. I was thinking something along the lines of making some sore of plastic mold that is quite form fitting to the mobo and other components, and simple slip it on. then another one of these "molds" for the harddrive and other drives.


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## Bobo

I think that APJ has the best idea. I don't see any real way that you could end up being sucessful with this.....IMO.  But what would also be cool is if you put a monitor in there and had a fish screensaver or something on it


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## Praetor

> The perspex waterproof tub for the electronics is obviously the most sensible option but asthetically not what I was after at all.


Hehe fashion before sense  j/k


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## john.griffiths1

Yeh thats what this project is all about! Taking computers out of the minging baige and black cases clutterd by wires and putting them in something relativly good and interesting to look at! What do you think to hiding everything in a singing fish preator? Do i have you to thank for removing the idiots post? Cheers.


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## jbrown456

this thing will be cool when done, but i am out of ideas.


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## computerboi99

hey great idea..........only 1 problem............the heat might kill your fish


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## Cromewell

nah get tropical fish


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## jbrown456

how many times have we gone through that now compuerboi99??? (dont laugh because he lives around the corner from me!)


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## Bobo

computerboi99 said:
			
		

> hey great idea..........only 1 problem............the heat might kill your fish


Let's see, if the CPU runs at about 120*F, with a HS, that would cool it down to 100, the fish water is 80*F ( I have tropical fish), and you have the room at 65*F. I think that the board would work perfectly as a heater, although you would have to keep it on at all times, and know what kind of load produces what kind of heat. 

BTW: jbrown since when do Semprons run with a 400FSB?  I think that you mean 200.


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## john.griffiths1

Lol bobo. Thanks for the confidence boost! I thought everyone had given up on me!


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## Bobo

john.griffiths1 said:
			
		

> Lol bobo. Thanks for the confidence boost! I thought everyone had given up on me!


Who says that everybody hasn't?  I still don't think that it will work, I just felt like saying that.


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## flame1117

I have an idea, make a fishtank, then have the PC BEHINDE the fishtank so it looks like its inside, you know like those fishtank backrounds.


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## Classic_house

John take a look at this http://nobispro.com/aquatank/


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## r53s

Hey...
look at this...
http://www.bit-tech.net/modding/2005/05/04/wcg2005_casemod/4.html


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## jbrown456

were making so much progress here!!!!!!!!


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## aakash trivedi

hey.............i realy wnt to know about ur idea...
which books r u preferring 4 this waterproof motherboard


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## SwetnK

you could always put an oil in the case instead (no fish then lol).  I've seen a computer fully submerged in oil before and I thought it was quite neat...


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## Archangel

I dont think a pc inside the aquarium itself is going to work.    fish cant stand big temperature variances very well (at least, as far as I know they dont. )  and if the pc would be used for quite a wile, the water would warm up for sure!
YOu can waterproof most of the bits tough with plastic spray.  (its a spray that puts a plasic coat on PCB's and Components.   I use it for electronic speed controllers in my rc cars, so they are a bit better protected against water.  this however wopuld still leave a problem of the CPU socket, and all otehr connections on the motherboard.


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## Candy

aakash trivedi said:


> hey.............i realy wnt to know about ur idea...
> which books r u preferring 4 this waterproof motherboard



Just remember this is a very old thread so you might not get a response from the OP.

If it were possible, as far as fish and the water temperature, I dont think it would be a problem because if you get tropical fish they are used to and need warmer water. The only thing would be the point Archangel raised about varying temperature, I dont think they would like this, you would need to find some way to regulate the temperature.


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## tremmor

it looks good. ive looked into before but was sold on this route, beside being safer.   http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/126689.html


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