# Improving Laptop cooling by adding "vents"?



## Espozo

Hello! I've come here to ask how dumb of an idea it would be to create holes (long lines or circles placed in a honeycomb pattern, whatever's easier) in the bottom of my laptop to try and improve the airflow to keep it cooler. If this is okay, is there an optimal place to put them? I've heard that you're not supposed to have a vent directly under the fan, but I'd have thought this would be the best place for it.

Here's the laptop's back



And here's the motherboard underneath that. The DVD drive was taken out.

 

In case this information is needed, the CPU is an AMD A12-9700P RADEON R7 @ 2.5GHz. It's an APU, but oddly enough, those 3 screw holes are where it appears a GPU is supposed to be, and it's even labeled as such. I don't remember the computer model, but it's a 17" HP I got this December. System in Windows says the computer name is DESKTOP-76NCIU1.


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## beers

Please don't.


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## Espozo

Might I ask why? Is it because there's no metal screen to keep out dirt, or are you afraid that this would compromise the strength of the plastic case?


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## voyagerfan99

If it was designed to have giant holes in it for ventilation, then the manufacturer would have done that.

While you may think your drilling holes would make better airflow, you will most likely screw up whatever airflow pattern the manufacturer designed for it.


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## Darren

Don't mess with it. HP knows better than you how to design a cooling system.


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## Espozo

Thank you. I had assumed that they just didn't do this for aesthetic reasons, and that it should never get hot enough to where it should matter (I was a little concerned, because the CPU was the most powerful option and I didn't know if this computer was designed very well for that; the 1.8GHz dual core CPU laptop I had before this had plenty of vents and was only a few years older), but I guess it could be to pull air over the entire board. The lack of any intake vents is a little strange though, not that the thing's air tight though.

I've tried to find good temperature reading, using software like Open Hardware Monitor, but all they list is a generic "temperature". I heard that there are often sensors in the CPU for each core, and one on the motherboard, but I could be wrong. In case you haven't already noticed, I'm not a computer expert (at least not a modern one. This is more on the software side of things, but I know 65xx and some x86 assembly, but I don't have a clue how fairly new inventions like CPU throttling work.)


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## Darren

Just keep it free of dust and maybe get a cooling pad if you're worried about heat.


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## Intel_man

Espozo said:


> (I was a little concerned, because the CPU was the most powerful option and I didn't know if this computer was designed very well for that; the 1.8GHz dual core CPU laptop I had before this had plenty of vents and was only a few years older)


I wouldn't worry about that. What you'll find out if you decide to dig deeper into CPU advancements is that, newer processors are built on newer architecture and die shrinking (built using a smaller nm process). What this means in a simpler term is, a more efficient processor generating less heat for even higher performance.


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## Espozo

Yeah, you're all right, I really don't need to worry about heat. I ran a stress test (prime95) and the CPU temp never got above 67 degrees Celsius, (or at least Hardware Monitor told me) and 90 degrees is the highest temperature before it starts failing. In fact, it went down to 57 and stayed there, (even while everything was still at 100%) because I guess the fan kicked in all the way. I imagine they have it running so low so that people who aren't conscious about keeping airways clear don't ruin their computers. I bet there wouldn't be that much headroom on something like an Alienware Laptop...


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## Intel_man

Espozo said:


> 90 degrees is the highest temperature before it starts failing.


It's around 90 degrees before the CPU starts thermal throttling, or will shutdown before damage can be done.


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## Laquer Head

I wouldn't drill holes in a gaming laptop, that actually needs cooling - let alone a shitty old standard HP notebook.


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## Espozo

Laquer Head said:


> let alone a shitty old standard HP notebook


It's sad because it's true... I didn't buy this laptop to play games though, as the GPU part of the APU is this computer's biggest weakness. My older one was fine for what I was using it for (video editing was atrocious, but it's actually pretty good on this) but I wanted something a little better. This came with a 1TB HDD, but I replaced it for a 128GB (all I need) SSD and it's magnitudes faster in certain areas. $520 (what I payed for before the SSD) was already pretty expensive for me; I'm a junior in high school and don't have a job. I'm still really curious about the spot where a GPU could seemingly be (It's even label "GPU" next to it.) Even if I did want to play games though, I'd probably be better off getting another laptop, because I and no one else I know have the tools to do something like that, if it would work at all.

Of course, about actually needing cooling, I could overclock it...  The BIOS (InsydeH20) doesn't even support it, but it appears people have made an "unlocked" version that lets you adjust the buss speed and all that fun stuff.


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## Okedokey

Id do it.  Manufacturers go for the lowest temps that can be achieved within a noise parameter.  I would def do it and yes, it would def help.


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## Geoff

Okedokey said:


> Id do it.  Manufacturers go for the lowest temps that can be achieved within a noise parameter.  I would def do it and yes, it would def help.


Don't listen to this advice.  Putting extra holes in your laptop will likely disrupt the airflow the manufacturer designed.  Changing the airflow could very easily make temps worse.


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## Espozo

Yeah, I've just about got it settled now. This thing operates so below the maximum temperature even at 100% load that I feel stupid I even asked about anything, although this was before I knew. I'm going to sound like a total jackass for this, but I was even seeing if I could get a few more MHz out of this (stable Super Monkey Ball emulation would be nice... It stutters a frame or two sometimes). I already told you guys how the temperature stayed at 57 degrees Celsius out of 90 at 100% CPU usage. An overclock to 2.8GHz doesn't seem like it would be that bad (I'd test it by 100MHz increments and make sure the thing never gets to be 80 degrees Celsius when heating up and 70 degrees Celsius stable)

Of course, if this is as stupid of an idea as my previous one, I won't do it. There's not even any option for overclocking in my BIOS (InsydeH20 F.35); I went to bios-mods.com and asked if there was a version someone modified to include advanced options, but there are so many requests there I won't hold my breath.


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## Okedokey

Geoff said:


> Don't listen to this advice.  Putting extra holes in your laptop will likely disrupt the airflow the manufacturer designed.  Changing the airflow could very easily make temps worse.


What bs.


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## Espozo

You know, wouldn't an easy way to end this little discussion be to run the stress test with the computer back taken off? Or would this not be accurate enough?


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## Geoff

Okedokey said:


> What bs.


Far from BS.  Manufacturers design specific intake and exhaust paths for the airflow.  Putting holes randomly on the bottom of the case would likely disrupt the exhaust and intake air paths that were originally designed.  Just as an example, say the air intake is on the left side of the laptop and flows over the GPU/CPU, then exhaust out the back of the laptop.  If you put holes right in the middle of this pathway , the fan that is moving the air could very easily push that air out the new vent holes before it even reaches the heatsink on the components where it was originally intended.


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## Darren

I've taken apart dozens of HP's like this, a lot of them don't even have fans. Never have overheating problems (although the mobos die a lot).


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## Intel_man

Darren said:


> (although the mobos die a lot).


Probably due to trash vital components like super cheap Chinese transistors.


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## Geoff

Darren said:


> I've taken apart dozens of HP's like this, a lot of them don't even have fans. Never have overheating problems (although the mobos die a lot).


Interesting, I know MacBook's had very intricate air paths when I was taking them apart.


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## Okedokey

You're over thinking it mate.  They make the cases for practical quiet use as much as possible.  If you think they do fluid dynamics on each and every model you're dreaming.


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## Darren

Okedokey said:


> You're over thinking it mate.  They make the cases for practical quiet use as much as possible.  If you think they do fluid dynamics on each and every model you're dreaming.


So they just cram it in there and hope for the best? K. Practical quiet use don't do shit if it's overheating. You ever done laptop repair before, like, more than one or two? 



Geoff said:


> Interesting, I know MacBook's had very intricate air paths when I was taking them apart.


Yeah I've seen numerous of these HP's have vents under the keyboard where a fan would go but many lower end stuff like Celerons or even i3's don't have a fan. They obviously have an overall design they use for many and adjust cooling as needed based on the specific processor and set up.


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## Okedokey

No ,they do it once, twice, 2 million times and assume it is best.  If you think they do proper fluid dynamic analysis you're a joke.  Cutting holes is the whole DIY thing, i'd do it in an instant.  The whole reason aftermarket laptop ventilation bases exist.


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## Espozo

Well, I finally took off the back casing and ran prime95. I'm actually surprised; it was hotter. It got to 74 degrees Celsius before the fan kicked it, and then stayed at 61 versus 67 and 59 with the case on. I imagine it's because the fan was just sucking in air right next to it instead of pulling it all the way across the board. It's still bizarre to me there's no intake, but the thing is obviously not vacuum sealed.



Darren said:


> I've seen numerous of these HP's have vents under the keyboard where a fan would go but many lower end stuff like Celerons or even i3's don't have a fan.


I think I heard the performance of this CPU is equivalent to that of an i5 (although I really don't know what the qualifications for being an i3 vs i5 vs i7 are at this point). I don't know, is it typical for a laptop CPUs to run at a temperature that much lower (23 degrees Celsius) than they can handle (before they shut off)?


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## Darren

Espozo said:


> Well, I finally took off the back casing and ran prime95. I'm actually surprised; it was hotter. It got to 74 degrees Celsius before the fan kicked it, and then stayed at 61 versus 67 and 59 with the case on. I imagine it's because the fan was just sucking in air right next to it instead of pulling it all the way across the board. It's still bizarre to me there's no intake, but the thing is obviously not vacuum sealed.
> 
> 
> I think I heard the performance of this CPU is equivalent to that of an i5 (although I really don't know what the qualifications for being an i3 vs i5 vs i7 are at this point). I don't know, is it typical for a laptop CPUs to run at a temperature that much lower (23 degrees Celsius) than they can handle (before they shut off)?


Ehh, it's kind of hard to compare. Your CPU has better graphics performance (built in) than an i5 but the i5 will be a more efficient and faster processor overall and also probably run slightly cooler. Sounds like your temps are well within normal range though so I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Espozo

I guess they're built using a smaller manufacturing process? Yeah though, When I was looking at different HP computers (tradition), the other decently powerful one, HP Omen, ran at a frequency 5% higher (2.6GHz), but was a 20% speed increase. (I'm not even sure how if they have the same processor architecture, but whatever.) However, it was $200 more, so I decided it wasn't worth it. I later found out the ram on it is soldered to the motherboard, so I'm really glad I didn't buy it now.

I've always had a sort of stigma against Dell (The only Dell computer I had had the hard drive break only a few years later) but it seems they offer the most powerful laptops for the best price. I saw a 3.5GHz one (I didn't even know they went that high) for $850, which I think is great. The way I see it, the faster the computer, the less you have to change them out (aside from the Dell, none of mine have broke; the processor would just become obsolete, and it's not like you can replace them.)

I've said this before, but I'm still really curious about this:



I guess this motherboard is used in a different laptop that had a designated GPU. This idea is even dumber than the hole drilling one, but I wonder if I could have someone with professional tools put a GPU on there (along with VRAM). At that point, it would probably be better to just get a new computer.


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## Darren

I work in a computer repair shop and any GPU that's soldered on isn't going anywhere and not worth messing with. If the GPU is dead and it's soldered on we quote people with a whole new motherboard even if just the GPU is bad since we can't remove/change it. Even then I don't think it'd even be possible to solder that on piece by piece if you did bother trying.


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## ramirez

LOL, still find it funny that someone would even consider drilling holes in their laptop before purchasing a fairly expensive cooling station.


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## Espozo

What good would a cooling station do if there's no intake?


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## ramirez

Espozo said:


> What good would a cooling station do if there's no intake?


A cooling pad for a laptop without holes on the bottom will still blow or suck air across the bottom

This was a good forum read:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/laptop-cooling-pads-do-they-really-work.2301132/


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